I'm ex-Navy and I've seen wires break on a double bollard [12,000 ton ship on full ahead for 20 seconds] and it happens so fast that you can't dissect the data ... you really need a slow-mo camera to see what's going on ... [in my opinion 60fps isn't slow enough] ! Your tow rope already has a listed breaking strain [from new] .... but obviously if it's not new / unused that breaking strain isn't the same as new / unused ! plus you have other factors to account for ... even a small branch buried in the snow in front of one wheel could add a few lbs to the issue ... or even frozen / compacted snow. When you test gear [R&D] for data you should always use new kit ... on terrain that is not variable ... but even that wont ensure your tow line wont break as soon as you pull.

Ive been following Matts off road recovery for a few years now...and recently found your channel while looking at Power Wagons. Gotta say...its nice to see different methods of recovery. Really enjoying the content this evening (been watching some vids on xmas eve) and glad I found your channel. Merry Christmas!

I have a few Factor 55 products, I do not have an LDP. I also don't use synthetic winch line. So I guess that my opinion doesn't really count, but I have always felt that even if synthetic was used, shortening a winch line has to be done with a snatch block or a pulley of some sort to avoid undue abrasion to the line itself. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong. But I am old school and winch with a cable, and never had a problem in almost 40 years of winching experience.

I would love to see several of the different options tested to see at what point each fails. LDP , X-lock , and other options that have been suggested.

Justin... Take a look at How Not to HIGHLINE’s site... It’s a Rock Climbing Site, but he has tested everything regarding testing the Load Forces on Ropes and Anchors... Uses lots of Strain Gauges etc.... 👍

Hi Justin, very interesting. Initial thoughts are the winch line did not look in prime condition and the rigging went over the sharper edges of the LDP. I have a LDP but not had the chance to test it due to health issues & covid virus. Regards Non Stick Nick

What weird is it appeared to break on the smooth machined side of the LDP, not the edges you were concerned with. You should get with the @hownottohighline channel and use their test setup.

Thanks for a very informative video. Just ordered a LDP, after seeing the Factor 55 videos. After looking at your video and the condition the rope was in after the pull, I will never use the LDP for shortening the winch rope. The point damage you showed on the busted rope tells a LOT about the applied point load. I will use it as a common point for different lines, using shackles, but NOT for shortening the line. Moral of the story is you better never bend the rope to less than 2 diameter radius. (Giving myself a safety factor). Thanks again...

Happy New Year Justin. Wishing you the best in 2021.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

back at ya!

Great video thank you!

I use only wire cable for my winch. My winch is portable to use on my trailer and have pulled more vehicles on board with winch cable dragging on the deck or ground. I don't have enough experience with synthetic rope or the rope accessories you use. I enjoy your vids on recoveries.

@JustinKingOffroad

Жыл бұрын

so it's pretty widely accepted that synthetic line is safer than steel. when if fails it doesn't snap back in a huge radius like steel does to decapitate you. it's more of a linear failure that would hurt like hell, but won't kill ya. you still have to stay out of the danger zones even with synthetic.

Happy New Year Jason. Great video will be looking forward to the others.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

Happy new year!

Happy New Year !!!

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

Happy new year!

Happy New Year!

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

Happy new year!

Excellent video. Happy New Year Justin!

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

Same to you!

I've been a Factor 55 fan and customer since they started in business. This is my first disappointment in one of their products even if it's only a recommendation for a different use. I wonder if the recent purchase of the company by Warn has anything to do with it.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think it's really on warn or factor 55, I think someone sent a pic "look what this can do" and they went with it for the interim. I'd really like to see them test it too in their own warehouse, and either condemn or praise the method.

@4n461

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad In the Facebook link you posted it loos like Factor 55 endorsed the method, but I agree they should either caution against it's use or provide complete instruction. That would be what I'm use to seeing from Factor 55.

@Factor55

3 жыл бұрын

@@4n461 Lab test videos and full analysis is coming soon. There are many different methods to shorten a winch line or extension with the LDP. We will be showing the actual data with 3/8, 7/16, and 1/2 inch line and releasing a step by step manual on the methods of how the LDP can be used. You will be very pleased with the results. Much more to come.

@4n461

3 жыл бұрын

@@Factor55 Excellent, thank you!

@Factor55

3 жыл бұрын

@@4n461 thank you for your business and support!

Hi Justin. I checked out the x-lock to see about the cost, maybe to purchase one. The x lock tool also seems to have radii smaller than required for safe use with the winch line. But the photo was not very good. It looked like the tool had 1/4 radii around the edges instead of a full radius. (I agree the LDP is not the right choice here, based on the outside feature radius there, btw. I have one and that’s a tight turn).

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

The x lock has the proper bend for standard synthetic winch rope to not cause damage

@thomasduby728

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad I just found your part three video and am watching it now. Thanks for the quick response.

@thomasduby728

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad I ordered an x-lock yesterday. Seems like a good tool that fills a gap. Certainly faster than trying to rig up another nearby tree to take up the unneeded line.

You mentioned the multi-anchor plate by Factor 55. "IF" the diameter was increased just a bit to be double the synthetic rope bend ratio, would it be better?

@JustinKingOffroad

Жыл бұрын

it's more about the sharp edges too.

Happy New Year Justin!

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

Happy New Year!!

i have never used any of these things but i know years past with wire rope bend rad. is very important i think all of these devices should be larger

Interesting about the minimum bend diameter you had stated. Rope rescue has typically had a minimum bend of 4 times the diameter. Ideally, 8 times maintains almost 100% of the tensile strength. Looks like you used a single braid, nylon or polyester?

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

for whatever reason, in winch operations 1.5 times the diameter of the rope is the accepted and rated way to not damage or loose any strength of the rope. i want to say that was 12 strand rope (when you fluff it up it's a hollow core). typical vehicle winch ropes.

@FaboLouis

Жыл бұрын

That is for a pulley

what a good website to order a winch line extension to be use at times. looking for something around 75 feet

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

gotta look at what line rating you need, 5/16, 7/16, 1/2 etc... but i'm picking up some safe-xtract extension myself here soon. amsteel blue is another great option.

@jasonlyijnen84

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad most like 7/16

Next time put a background gradient (alla myth busters) so you can establish line speeds and deduce a force vector...(estimated or over/under is fine no need for a high speed camera because you don’t need lab accuracy for this.) I’m annoyed every time I see rigging that is over complicated ...why does no one use a simple sacrificial line rigging or dedicated fail point on redirects? Saves overloading the equipment and doesn’t require high dollar machined specialty items! Happy years ending! Edit: for short to intermediate pulls (where the drum rap significantly reduces pull rate) often a hilift winch set up or come a long are just superior to a vehicle mounted electric winch ...usually requires less manual labor and applied know how!

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

we actually talked about that after the fact, we could probably more easily setup a tape measure over 20 feet and see how fast that recoil was.

Also looks like the rope broke at the typical breaking point for a slow pull test, right at the first single bend as it enters the knot/LDP.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

yes but on the X-lock, we have yet to see a line fail.

@MichaelVerbit

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad kudos to the X-lock on a great design.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

That's Chris Cole who designed that, super nice guy, have replacement winch line on order for my truck from him.

@danlux4954

2 жыл бұрын

@@JustinKingOffroad what broke when you ran the x-link if you were doing a destructive test?

Actual test starts at 4:20. Coincidence?

Pretty sure they’re meant to be used with shackles.

That is very interesting as to how quickly that failed. Would be interested to see the scientific data the next time you run that. The Factor 55 looks like it is thicker but the undercut on the outside looks like a "sharper" edge than would be advisable. Would be interesting to see the different measurements with that and the x lock as well.

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

we've got our hands on a load cell now, so a future re-do of this is coming sooner than later!

The rope that broke didn't appear to be in the best condition. You can see loose fibers. That could've at least played a part in it breaking.

@JustinKingOffroad

2 жыл бұрын

we also broke brand new rope doing the exact same thing.

Seems crazy, but I don't see where Factor55 advertises this piece for line shortening. Is this just a case of bad mouthing a product?

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

It went out as an email blast to their customer base, and they responded to one of my videos that they were going to release detailed info on this. But I haven't seen it yet.

scary stuff

@JustinKingOffroad

3 жыл бұрын

indeed! that's why we set it up the way we did, to avoid as much danger as possible.