Hi everyone, I invariably forget some detail! 1. The entire Nucular controller line has no phase shunts. They have BATT- shunts. Nucular claims they can measure phase current with just these BATT- current shunts. I know in the dashboard you see phase amps change depending on riding conditions so I've accepted that it's "good enough". This is still not real phase shunts. I think this decision was made due to seriously constrained real estate on the board. 2. Not sure what else I forgot, but I'll post it here.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
That's a real phase current since capacitors placed before shunt
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 I spend a fair bit of time with VESC engineers. You have to make some pretty significant assumptions to get phase current measurements this way. Just an opinion based on VESC development, this is not a very good way to keep track of the phases. I mentioned this to you back when you first released these controllers and got ignored.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery there is microchip appnote about single shunt current measurement. with some PWM tricks it works just fine and provides excellent protection. no ' assumptions' at all
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 Your word: "tricks", AKA not direct phase amp measuring.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery direct, it is not recalculated from battery or anything
@antssta Жыл бұрын
Bro can you please do far driver when you get the chance, wicked video’s. Probably my fave KZread at this point
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Sure! buy me one! I'm really curious about fardriver myself
@antssta
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery like I said, when you get the chance
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@antssta Who do you think pays for this stuff? I don't get a nickel from youtube! I buy the controllers and then I do all the filming. I pay for all of it, just me! While I have interest in Fardriver for curiosity, it's not FOC and doesn't even support variable regen. Without some sort of epic deal on one, it is unlikely I'll buy one of these, just for a video. It's something I would not personally use since it's old technology. The already done KO Pro videos, that was a stupendously good price so I jumped on it and then won't keep it long term. I have an FSPEC coming, same thing really really good price. Both are garbage and something I won't keep for long. Same situation on the technology as FarDriver, only horrible build quality to boot. So IF you want to donate one, I'll do a tear down. Otherwise, you'll be waiting a long time, if ever. Maybe it's time for Patrion?
@christianwagner6244
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery You sure that Fardriver is not FOC? No my knowledge, they support MTPA which is only a thing for FOC-control, no?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@christianwagner6244 MTPA is a function of FOC motor control. Can you show me where you saw that FarDriver supports this? I did spend some time not so long ago looking at FarDriver products and I don't remember seeing MTPA listed as a feature. Also, companies will say something is FOC and then you can't find any evidence of it anywhere! You should see things like motor inductance, phase resistance, hall maps, PID tables, settings for FOC or sinusoidal or trapezoidal control. This is all stuff commonly found in FOC controllers. IF these things are lacking, there is a VERY HIGH chance the controller is not FOC. I have not found any of that stuff in anything I've seen from FarDriver!
@marshallscholz8629 Жыл бұрын
with the stm32f405 this controller could probably run vesc firmware. my only critique is they seem to have long and windy current paths. despite them being reinforced. and they don't need to alternate top/bottom fets within the phase. just have 4 top fets connected to vbat and then 4 bottom fets connected to gnd. allows you to beef up the current paths much more if you dont have to intertwine vbatt and gnd as much.
@helios_ja Жыл бұрын
It's amazing what is possible when people get serious about power electronics. It's a shame that Nucular has to be russian. This controller will likely never see its full potential. Thanks for all you do Debodgery.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
Not Russian anymore lol
@helios_ja
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 im not so sure about that
@russbarrow Жыл бұрын
Good design work, however, it would appear this design is TO-220 limited. It would be interesting to determine the cost difference from the surface mount mosfets versus the through hole mosfets. I can bet the surface mount fets will be higher cost and quality but they can pay for themselves with simplified board and heat flow layout.
@amac868 Жыл бұрын
where does this one rate for you compared to ko, torp, ebmx, stock... etc...? i am considering nucular is still more than relevant? ive heard its quite smooth and powerful... maybe second to ebmx?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Nucular is good build quality and good design. Better than the factory controller for sure. IMHO, most everything is better than KO, but you can see why in my tear downs of their products.
@dstvs Жыл бұрын
How would you describe repairs on this controller? Seem to be quite hard to do with the conformal and with the tight space
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Conformal is no problem. You can solder right through it. It also washes off with certain paint thinners or xylene. Potting...that's another matter. IF it's silicon based and rubbery you can usually pick it away like you saw in my BAC8000 tear down. If it's hard potting, it's more like epoxy and that stuff is a royal PITA! It will soften with heat and breaks down with chemicals. I don't know if Nuk uses hard potting or not. It is tight in there! Getting the mosfets out isn't all that hard. You bend the entire heat spreader outwards a few degrees, take out the screw and unsolder the bad mosfet. The large caps are easy. The MCU daughter board is a bitch. You really need a heat gun to play over all the solder joints on it's edge connector. You can't force it or you will tear off traces. Go slow, lots of heat, be patient and it does come out....sloooooowly.
@sn0wchyld Жыл бұрын
i'd disagree with the whole 'sucky customer service' bit - my experience, limited though it is as I haven't asked for much, has been good. Helpful and attentive when asked for stuff. They're Russian remember, they dont have the 'western' style of customer service, they tell it as it is without fluff.
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
This is probably true to some extent. Cultural differences do effect how peoples interact. I can say that this gets in the way when I talk to Indian or Chinese people sometimes. I'd still say they are arrogant, condescending and dicks. I have a Russian friend also in Moscow and he's quite congenial and is also a genius. He designs motors and controllers and if it wasn't for the invasion of Ukraine would already be sending me a controller to test!
@DavidMolony Жыл бұрын
Hold up... There's only 1 shunt. How does this run FOC? ST have a foc library for single shunt but even they admit it's for low performance fans etc. Is there a set of phase current sensors somewhere?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
This is a good point and thank you for noticing this. I completely forgot to mention this. The shunts are on BATT- only. I asked about this detail back when the 12 fet controller first came out in 2018. The Nucular guys claim they can do low side phase current sensing with this set up. I was somewhat skeptical, but it's what they claimed.
@jkrsecret Жыл бұрын
Seems to be solid.
@jimmyross1672 Жыл бұрын
lok man i love taking apart anything that ha eletronics in them lol i even take apart microwave ovens and i didnt reolize how dangrious there are but i know now and im allot more careful with taking apart things like TV and microwave ovens and other things like that lol but yeah im shocked that i havnt been killed yet by doing stupid shit but somehow im still here. lol well good job brother another awsome video keep on keepin on
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
First TV, 9 years old. First vacuum cleaner, 8 years old. First washing machine and drier, 10 years old. First microwave, 9 years old. I got shocked a LOT as a kid! Now I'm a skosh wiser and get shocked a lot less!
@waynewigger99046 ай бұрын
Are these controllers worth the money there asking for ? Compared to a as I bac4000
@de-bodgery
6 ай бұрын
The lack of stupid control over the controller that ASI insists on makes them not worth it compared to lots of other options. Nukular lets you make any setting you want and they don't insist on control of what you do in your controllers settings. The control that ASI asserts on their customers can't be over stated on how ridiculous that is! If ASI or Nukular were options, I'd buy a Nukular every day of the year!
Пікірлер: 38
Hi everyone, I invariably forget some detail! 1. The entire Nucular controller line has no phase shunts. They have BATT- shunts. Nucular claims they can measure phase current with just these BATT- current shunts. I know in the dashboard you see phase amps change depending on riding conditions so I've accepted that it's "good enough". This is still not real phase shunts. I think this decision was made due to seriously constrained real estate on the board. 2. Not sure what else I forgot, but I'll post it here.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
That's a real phase current since capacitors placed before shunt
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 I spend a fair bit of time with VESC engineers. You have to make some pretty significant assumptions to get phase current measurements this way. Just an opinion based on VESC development, this is not a very good way to keep track of the phases. I mentioned this to you back when you first released these controllers and got ignored.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery there is microchip appnote about single shunt current measurement. with some PWM tricks it works just fine and provides excellent protection. no ' assumptions' at all
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 Your word: "tricks", AKA not direct phase amp measuring.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery direct, it is not recalculated from battery or anything
Bro can you please do far driver when you get the chance, wicked video’s. Probably my fave KZread at this point
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Sure! buy me one! I'm really curious about fardriver myself
@antssta
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery like I said, when you get the chance
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@antssta Who do you think pays for this stuff? I don't get a nickel from youtube! I buy the controllers and then I do all the filming. I pay for all of it, just me! While I have interest in Fardriver for curiosity, it's not FOC and doesn't even support variable regen. Without some sort of epic deal on one, it is unlikely I'll buy one of these, just for a video. It's something I would not personally use since it's old technology. The already done KO Pro videos, that was a stupendously good price so I jumped on it and then won't keep it long term. I have an FSPEC coming, same thing really really good price. Both are garbage and something I won't keep for long. Same situation on the technology as FarDriver, only horrible build quality to boot. So IF you want to donate one, I'll do a tear down. Otherwise, you'll be waiting a long time, if ever. Maybe it's time for Patrion?
@christianwagner6244
Жыл бұрын
@@de-bodgery You sure that Fardriver is not FOC? No my knowledge, they support MTPA which is only a thing for FOC-control, no?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
@@christianwagner6244 MTPA is a function of FOC motor control. Can you show me where you saw that FarDriver supports this? I did spend some time not so long ago looking at FarDriver products and I don't remember seeing MTPA listed as a feature. Also, companies will say something is FOC and then you can't find any evidence of it anywhere! You should see things like motor inductance, phase resistance, hall maps, PID tables, settings for FOC or sinusoidal or trapezoidal control. This is all stuff commonly found in FOC controllers. IF these things are lacking, there is a VERY HIGH chance the controller is not FOC. I have not found any of that stuff in anything I've seen from FarDriver!
with the stm32f405 this controller could probably run vesc firmware. my only critique is they seem to have long and windy current paths. despite them being reinforced. and they don't need to alternate top/bottom fets within the phase. just have 4 top fets connected to vbat and then 4 bottom fets connected to gnd. allows you to beef up the current paths much more if you dont have to intertwine vbatt and gnd as much.
It's amazing what is possible when people get serious about power electronics. It's a shame that Nucular has to be russian. This controller will likely never see its full potential. Thanks for all you do Debodgery.
@vasilisk8944
Жыл бұрын
Not Russian anymore lol
@helios_ja
Жыл бұрын
@@vasilisk8944 im not so sure about that
Good design work, however, it would appear this design is TO-220 limited. It would be interesting to determine the cost difference from the surface mount mosfets versus the through hole mosfets. I can bet the surface mount fets will be higher cost and quality but they can pay for themselves with simplified board and heat flow layout.
where does this one rate for you compared to ko, torp, ebmx, stock... etc...? i am considering nucular is still more than relevant? ive heard its quite smooth and powerful... maybe second to ebmx?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Nucular is good build quality and good design. Better than the factory controller for sure. IMHO, most everything is better than KO, but you can see why in my tear downs of their products.
How would you describe repairs on this controller? Seem to be quite hard to do with the conformal and with the tight space
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
Conformal is no problem. You can solder right through it. It also washes off with certain paint thinners or xylene. Potting...that's another matter. IF it's silicon based and rubbery you can usually pick it away like you saw in my BAC8000 tear down. If it's hard potting, it's more like epoxy and that stuff is a royal PITA! It will soften with heat and breaks down with chemicals. I don't know if Nuk uses hard potting or not. It is tight in there! Getting the mosfets out isn't all that hard. You bend the entire heat spreader outwards a few degrees, take out the screw and unsolder the bad mosfet. The large caps are easy. The MCU daughter board is a bitch. You really need a heat gun to play over all the solder joints on it's edge connector. You can't force it or you will tear off traces. Go slow, lots of heat, be patient and it does come out....sloooooowly.
i'd disagree with the whole 'sucky customer service' bit - my experience, limited though it is as I haven't asked for much, has been good. Helpful and attentive when asked for stuff. They're Russian remember, they dont have the 'western' style of customer service, they tell it as it is without fluff.
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
This is probably true to some extent. Cultural differences do effect how peoples interact. I can say that this gets in the way when I talk to Indian or Chinese people sometimes. I'd still say they are arrogant, condescending and dicks. I have a Russian friend also in Moscow and he's quite congenial and is also a genius. He designs motors and controllers and if it wasn't for the invasion of Ukraine would already be sending me a controller to test!
Hold up... There's only 1 shunt. How does this run FOC? ST have a foc library for single shunt but even they admit it's for low performance fans etc. Is there a set of phase current sensors somewhere?
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
This is a good point and thank you for noticing this. I completely forgot to mention this. The shunts are on BATT- only. I asked about this detail back when the 12 fet controller first came out in 2018. The Nucular guys claim they can do low side phase current sensing with this set up. I was somewhat skeptical, but it's what they claimed.
Seems to be solid.
lok man i love taking apart anything that ha eletronics in them lol i even take apart microwave ovens and i didnt reolize how dangrious there are but i know now and im allot more careful with taking apart things like TV and microwave ovens and other things like that lol but yeah im shocked that i havnt been killed yet by doing stupid shit but somehow im still here. lol well good job brother another awsome video keep on keepin on
@de-bodgery
Жыл бұрын
First TV, 9 years old. First vacuum cleaner, 8 years old. First washing machine and drier, 10 years old. First microwave, 9 years old. I got shocked a LOT as a kid! Now I'm a skosh wiser and get shocked a lot less!
Are these controllers worth the money there asking for ? Compared to a as I bac4000
@de-bodgery
6 ай бұрын
The lack of stupid control over the controller that ASI insists on makes them not worth it compared to lots of other options. Nukular lets you make any setting you want and they don't insist on control of what you do in your controllers settings. The control that ASI asserts on their customers can't be over stated on how ridiculous that is! If ASI or Nukular were options, I'd buy a Nukular every day of the year!
@waynewigger9904
6 ай бұрын
@@de-bodgery thanks that's all I needed to know