That's the whole point they don't know their own minds yet, they are looking to their adult role models to show them what's acceptable and what is not

Having your child listen to you when they are young is imperative for safety. If your child is running toward the street chasing a ball and doesn't see the car, you need to make sure when you scream stop your child will stop. You can still talk to them, that is parenting

@ParkrosePermaculture

Ай бұрын

But nothing about that requires hitting your child or screaming at them on a regular basis. Nothing about that requires punitive parenting.

@irenezaleski4989

Ай бұрын

Having raised my daughter in a similar way (non coercive, non authoritarian, respect given to the child as an actual human being…) I can tell you that the kiddo will pick the change in your voice (urgency and pitch) and will understand “⚠️ DANGER‼️ ⚠️” If you’re always calm and a safe haven they will listen. As animals evolution has given us instincts to keep us safe. So kids can pick up happiness, sadness, anxiety and when it’s safe and when there’s danger. If we as parents/ carers do not mess with that instinct and reinforce the idea that we are safe and are meeting their needs (as much as humanly possible), that instinct will help keep our children safe in many ways. And we should encourage them to listen to it. This also it’s not just on its own, there are other things that we parents do in guiding. I could tell my child to stop 🛑 and they would stop, if they sensed danger in my voice. Screaming was not common, there was worry about a danger in my voice. And at some ages they responded better than their obedient peers, something that shocked the parents that criticised us for our non punitive approach. Even now as an adult they can tell if there’s a problem we need to discuss or if I’m feeling under the weather.

@Haexxchen

Ай бұрын

If you scream at your child for misbehaving in normal life, they will learn they only need to listen when you scream or/and will not learn screaming means danger. This is a situation where you warn your child, not lecture them. (Suggesting that gentle parents or non-coersive parents will say calmly: "Honey, please don't let the car hit and kill you. Yeah? For mommy please?" when this situation arises is just mean spirited.) Let you screaming your children's names actually mean something. It can save their lives.

@shockingdocumentaries4255

Ай бұрын

If you always yell at your kids and make everything seem like it’s life or death, they’ll ignore you and be more likely to be harmed. Take in mind adults have the same response. It’s healthy to tune out people who over react and seem emotionally volatile. If you feel like you have to yell in certain circumstances, you should definitely do what seems best. Every situation is unique. These conversations is meant to expose you to the options you have as a parent. Not to tell you what to do, or make you feel the need to explain yourself. However if your kids are used to you communicating with them they will know not to run in the street BEFORE the situation can occur. Thoughtful people use the idea of potential danger to prevent it. Not as an excuse to act illogically and make the situation WORSE. Public etiquette is handled easily by explaining what you expect like holding hands, looking both ways, and not crossing until getting permission, in addition to explaining the danger. Being consistent and reasoning may take more effort, but if our kids aren’t worth it, than what is. There are many who are too stressed and exhausted from working multiple jobs to do this, but that is a completely different argument than pretending that communication DOESN’T work by using extreme cases. Incidently I was around a child running in the streets while I talked his stressed out mom. 30 seconds of explaining that we were worried about his safety along with understanding his need to play and telling him where he could do play and be active the way we claim we want our kids to do, without getting in trouble. The parent choose to ignore the good behavior while telling me “to not hit the kid on the face where people could see”. Advocating for emotionally volatile behavior requires ignoring inconvenient facts. Like the fact that I was clearly only talking to the child, that I kept saying that after I got over the shock of her saying that, or the fact that expecting someone to hit your child and being ok with that is what is causing him to act angry. Authoritarianism dictates you ignore the toxic circumstances to treat the child as if the behavior is the problem NOT the result of a bad environment. Until they are an adult and they are told their ONLY problems happened as a child. This is all about making a conscious choice that is aligned with your beliefs and makes sense to you. The fact that you use the same kind of extremist argument about kids running in the street is one of the signs this IS NOT a thoughtful opinion so much as regurgitated biases that mistakes abuse for “tough love”. Just because you’re use to kids being vilified doesn’t make it healthy. If you like at the belligerent comments of those advocating for treating kids in a way that’s abuse when done to adults, you’ll see the anger and illogical “arguments” are the best example of the results of being raised by irrational verbal and emotional abuse.

I was an unschooling mom too but I was coercive about obeying rules etc. and wish I had known better.

@kimjones2056

Ай бұрын

What is wrong with obeying rules. Should we do away with rules. Live in a lawless society. That doesn’t make sense to me.

@shockingdocumentaries4255

Ай бұрын

@@kimjones2056 it’s ALREADY A LAWLESS SOCIETY. the laws are broken by the rule makers and we go along because we’ve been trained to do what we are told OR ELSE. You aren’t advocating FOR law and order. You’re actually arguing for ignoring that and the logic of reasoning in the name of authoritarianism and following them off a cliff because they say it’s the law. Thinking for yourself is not only ok in a DEMOCRACY, it’s required of sentient beings. Going along blindly is only advocated for when it comes to controlling people and getting them to act AGAINST their best interest, human decency, and even excuses BREAKING THE LAW. We only think authority figures follow the law as long as we ignore things like citizens shot in the street like dogs by law enforcement that defends it by saying “something must have happened before the VIDEO of the shooting or after to justify killing unarmed people in the back. Based off of the anger at the idea of treating your kids with respect gets, it looks like it’s working. Your using the idea of law and order to make it seem like you need to be manipulated because people can’t think for themselves. How can you raise healthy, rational kids if you think communication is a BAD thing? Your also equating being able to reason as printing chias and lawlessness when being able to think Is HELPFUL to behaving in a civilized manner. Then there’s the manipulative tactic of making it seem like a parent whose come to decisions about their parenting are WRONG as you falsely equate loving parenting to crime THATS the results of the abusive coercive behavior you’re pushing.

I was pretty calm. Did not use yelling or punish them. My son was 15 and deeply involved with a video game that he could not stop playing. I banned him from playing it. 2 weeks later he thanked me. He said he was too deep into the game. So I support your methods but nobody is perfect.

@shockingdocumentaries4255

Ай бұрын

Talking to the kid about his own feelings about being addicted to the game could have ALSO worked. If he thanked you it’s because his behavior wasn’t aligned with how he WANTS to lead his life. Imagine what would have been gained if you had reasoned with him. He’d know he can trust his feelings about his behavior NOT working for him and make the CHOICE to stop or get help. Instead he’s being taught to do what he’s told because OTHER people know what’s best. This is type of training that makes it feel impossible for people to break behavior patterns that doesn’t work for them or trust their own feelings. It’s like those apps that claim to help with your finances when they are really making you dependent by ignoring the idea of developing financial literacy or just keeping track of what you buy. The thing claiming to help you is crippling you from learning life skills. The fact that we become used to controlling people and using coercion, while claiming to encourage independence and critical thinking, is the RESULTS of pro authoritarianism that treats logic like it’s the enemy.

The internet is judgmental. 😂 If this method works well for you and your family I think that is great! In addition, I think the parenting pyramid put out by the Arbinger Institute teaches that when the parent’s way of being is healthy, the parents have a good relationship with each other, the child has a strong and loving relationship with their parents, and their parents are spending lots of time teaching them, very little corrective action needs to be taken. I think we often get that parenting pyramid upside down and spend 99% of our time in correcting behavior. I haven’t watched any of your other videos so maybe you address this in other places, but do you believe in “consequences” instead of “punishment.” A hard fact of life is that we can choose our choices but often the consequences (good or bad) are a byproduct of those choices that we can’t change. It’s important for children to understand that consequences (good and bad) are a part of life when they are still under our tutelage, before they go into adulthood where the consequences are far more devastating to themselves and others. Also, I think it is completely possible to give out consequences in a kind, loving, and respectful way, without being judgmental or shaming the child. A choice can be bad, but that doesn’t make the child bad. They are good and loved always.

You can scare quote "misbehave" all you want. However, it exists. How about unbuckling the car seat straps? Do you think that is behaving?

@ParkrosePermaculture

Ай бұрын

It's just behavior. Remove the judgment and you see behavior as communication, rather than a moral failing.

@pennybright6386

Ай бұрын

@@ParkrosePermaculture Who was talking about morals? Try explaining to a police officer that your 4-year-old is just "communicating" by undoing their car seat strap. Humans are naturally hierarchical. It is my job in the hierarchy to insist that the straps stay buckled. It is the police officer's job as the authority over me to ensure that that happens. Or are you one of those sovereign citizens types?

@annasluka6708

Ай бұрын

@@pennybright6386 Humans aren't naturally hierarchical. That's something taught by those who take power, usually through violence. A police officer is just a person...like myself. They are not above me, just like I'm not above a child because I was born before them. It's about earning respect, not demanding it.

@pennybright6386

Ай бұрын

@@annasluka6708 Yes, humans are naturally hierarchical. All animals are, even lobsters. There is no group of people at any level that doesn't have a hierarchy. A policeman is not "just" a person. They are a person with authority over you. Just try and refuse a direct order from a LEO. See how far you get. Yes, by the mere fact of being an adult puts you in the position of responsibility over children. You can and will be charged with child endangerment if you do not insist the child stays buckled by said police officer and put away for many years by a judge, someone even higher up on the ladder. As for your respect comment, that is a different subject than hierarchy.

@kimjones2056

Ай бұрын

@@annasluka6708please explain how that works. The police can and will give you a ticket or arrest you if you break the law. They don’t care if you think they are not above you.

@williss3753 Doing things like yelling at someone in danger or honking the horn if you’re in a car trying to get someone out of the street, ONLY STARTLES THE PERSON and causes “deer caught in headlights” type of situation. While these responses are understandable, they are NOT HELPFUL. They actually make the outcome you’re afraid of MORE likely to occur. Kids are more likely to listen to adults who are level headed and respectful. If you aren’t the hysterical type that bullies kids, they won’t tune you out and force you to act increasingly MORE irate to get their attention. Unruly kids come from stressed out, emotionally volatile parents. Even those kids respond IMMEDIATELY to being told they can’t run around so close to the streets. There’s nothing like seeing a parent who INSIST their child needs to be yelled at or even spanked, watch as their kids listen and behave for strangers who reason with their kids. Kids are reasonable when you REASON with them. 🤪 Seeing kids as human beings and acknowledging their needs by giving them an area where they are allowed to play without getting in trouble also helps. It’s all about having a loving perspective of them. I see them as little people. 😊 It’s sounds funny, but it works. I’ve never had “bad” kids. But I have met kids in REALLY BAD situations created and made worse by angry adults who treated them like bad people. I see now they were misguided and WRONG about a LOT of things. Well intentioned. And they did the very best they could. But they were WRONG. What they call “raising kids” is just an excuse to vent their rage. Which is why so many defend their actions by telling you how bad kids are in general. Screaming and yelling at your kid instead of explaining things to your kid doesn’t encourage them to reason things out, have critical thinking skills, or be the confident, happy, well adjusted adults you want them to be. I do have sympathy for the parents. I know it’s stressful being responsible for a living being and worried you’re not doing a good enough job. Plus they had it hard too… That doesn’t JUSTIFY that toxic environment though. A happy environment that praises your kids development and encourages creativity by NOT beating up on the kid if they do something you don’t love, is the foundation to living a grounded life. Which helps you approach emergencies a life as a whole, in a RATIONAL way. That includes raising your own kids in a happy environment to help them become happy adults. Defending yelling and screaming as a HELPFUL response, is the reaction of someone who’s USED to being yelled at. If you just thought about all the times YOU got mad and couldn’t hear someone even though they may have had a legitimate point, then imagined that person being 3 times your size towering over you, as they SCREAM and YELL and just talk to you in a way that’s MEAN for people to talk to adults but is “TOUGH LOVE” when done to kids by adults they trust, and you’ll realize the idea of screaming and yelling making it EASIER to communicate especially in an emergency that is already stressful, DOESN’T MAKE SENSE. I was raised with meanness that taught me It’s wrong to be loving and said the same thing @williss3753 said. In fact I heard something just as irrational justifying meanness from one of those teachers yesterday. It’s a fatalistic point of view. Using danger as an exciting vent stress in a dysfunctional manner when calmness and rationality are MORE IMPORTANT. They are miserable because they beat their selves up, the way they were taught to. Instead of seeing how they can deal with their problems they just vent and misdirect their rage. They way they were taught. They think my using the serenity prayer “to change the things I can, accept the things I can’t and have the wisdom to tell the difference”, makes me a “control freak”. However having a ‘mostly’ loving perspective and trying to be respectful of others as I reason with people both adults and kids, has ALWAYS worked. It doesn’t mean people do what I want or that this situation changes. After all I’m not trying to control or manipulate. It just means I’m able yo he emotionally vulnerable. Communication my needs. Assess whether this situation can meet my needs, and act accordingly in order yo meet those needs. Coercive authoritative parenting discourages these things. It teaches you to go along with the herd to avoid being ostracized. Justify the irrationality with fear, because it’s what your used to. Just based off my experiences of growing up in that environment I noticed certainly patterns with this “child rearing” that can be summed up with a phrase: FATALISTIC PERSPECTIVE. This authoritarian approach teaches you to see anything along the lines of problem solving, budgeting , or finding cheap ways to do things you enjoy as “too much work”. The fact that it’s other people’s lives and has NOTHING to do with them DOESN’T matter. Even communicating their needs or creating boundaries is criticized. People “should already know what you’re thinking”. Other people will probably not respect your boundaries because they should already know. Which is why you shouldn’t bother saying anything TO the person. You should just talk about them BEHIND their backs. Communication and self-respect is key. That other stuff comes from a negative attitude towards kids that treats them as if they are the cause of all the all the ill in the world. Making them a target for misdirected rage at problems that has NOTHING to do with kids. What we use to call “raising kids” and “tough love” is bullying. Emotional and verbal abuse that teaches the kid that life SUPPOSED to be stressful and DISCOURAGES problem solving. Venting is NOT problem solving. It doesn’t HELP any situation. That ABUSE cripples us and breaks our spirits as adults. In short, it’s a VICIOUS CYCLE. A crab in a barrel mentality. You doom your kids to the SAME stressful life you’ve had. Maybe even worse. Adults who were brought up in a stressful environment vent their rage at their kids. Instead of nurturing their confidence and encouraging them to try things out and figure out what works for them, they are broken in. Like they are a horse. They have a hard time adjusting and problem solving. Think life’s supposed to be that way. And they raise their kids to be like that. However there has always been a lot of people who were raised that way but can see how hurtful it was and try to be more loving and conscientious about how we treat ourselves and others. I’m still trying to deal with the harm it’s caused while maintaining a relationship with the people who caused it. I’ve learned to keep my triumphs and hardships to myself when it comes to these loved ones. Just listen as they vent. Keep my opinions to myself. People who believe it’s normal to be stressed but not do anything about it, are never going to understand my perspective on being loving or trying to reason and figure things out. I thought I was weird, stubborn, a “pittbull” for being independent. Then I realized being able to take care of myself while having difficulties with my health, making the best of these situations like taking up things like gardening because it’s fun, juicing because I wanted to take back control of my health, are GOOD THINGS. IT’S GOOD FOR ME TO FIND WAYS TO IMPROVE MY SITUATION. That’s what we’ll adjusted resourceful adults do. Handle their problems instead of taking them out on kids. 🤯 Thankfully I live in a time where I can go to channels like this and be surrounded by people living out their dreams of self-sufficiency and dealing with life in calm, conscientious manner. I realized recently that I associate many things in life with stress because I was taught to. Watching videos that reinforce thoughtfulness and show people making their dreams happen and enjoying their kids uniqueness helps expose me to a consistent source of healthy behavior and the happiness that results from it. Thank you to these KZreadrs for sharing their lives and giving us a safe space to discuss these important topics. ❤️‍🩹

@ParkrosePermaculture

Ай бұрын

👏👏👏

@shockingdocumentaries4255

Ай бұрын

@@ParkrosePermaculture Thank you for bringing up these topics and giving space for people to express themselves. I’m sorry for the dissertation. In case it’s not obvious, this video and the comment someone else left touches on the issues I’m currently addressing. I’d also like to commend you on your bravery and advocating for human rights and humane treatment. I know it’s not the popular move right now. 🤨 I’m sorry that it’s causing you to see people you’d ordinarily get along with, in a different way. I’ve had that same experience. I call it the “Twilight Zone” feeling because it reminds of an episode where the threat of nuclear strike caused neighbors to turn on each other and see each other differently. I think it was called ‘The Monsters on Maple Street’. Those people don’t know what they are doing. Crisis makes it hard for them to think straight. Things are getting to the point where the tide seems to be shifting. If anything is done to stop the violence and the conditions causing it, it’ll be because of pressure from people like you on social media speaking rationally from a place of love. Stay the course. Keep doing you and stay blessed. ❤️

@kimjones2056

Ай бұрын

What’s the point of a horn if it’s not to warn people. So a conversation as a child is in the road is going to save him. A child run around a restaurant or anywhere else is not going to have a conversation with a stranger and listen to reason

@shockingdocumentaries4255

Ай бұрын

@@kimjones2056 arguing for using a horn because you have one while ignoring the argument that it makes the danger worse, while making parenting sound you have to punish your child to keep them out of danger 24/7, and mixing that in with running around a restaurant as if that’s life threatening too, asserting that talking won’t work as an excuse NOT to TRY talking to your kids as if saying it makes it true, while negating my experience of it working, IS NOT INTELLECTUALLY HONEST. You’re using fear mongering, assumptions, selective attention to what I said, and ignoring the things I DID say, to string together non sensible talking points backed by an extremist argument to treat kids in a way that’s considered ABUSE and a MENTAL HEALTH ILLNESS, when done to ADULTS. If it’s abuse when it comes to those who can defend themselves, why is it “tough love” when it comes to kids who aren’t allowed to defend themselves? You’re using manipulation to make fear of strangers not approving your kids behavior at a restaurant, seem like an excuse to be mean with your kids. And using the assumption that talking doesn’t help as an excuse to not REASON with your kids. Arguing something work as excuse to not TRY is common behavior when arguing FOR limitations and self defeating behavior. It treats trying new things as if it will lead to the end of the world. Tricking you to argue AGAINST choices that can make your situation BETTER. By the way, having a horn doesn’t mean YOU HAVE TO USE it. The fact that it startles people is also not an excuse to NEVER use it either. Your free to react the way you feel best. Pointing out their are other ways of dealing with things just means you have MORE options. Responding by making it seem like you need to emotionally abuse your child or THEY WILL DIE, is the argument of someone threatened when confronted with obvious HEALTHY behavior like communication. You almost act like having MORE options, limits you, even as you ignore them and are argue for an ‘all or nothing” you either abuse kids or neglect them approach. You’re inability to see communication as a viable issue is VERY TELLING. You’re illogical response is an example of WHY the behavior you are advocating for is harmful. It leads to justifying abuse with intellectually dishonest belligerence that requires ignoring FACTS AND COMMENTS that are inconvenient, and channeling your rage at others who act like they have the RIGHT to think for themselves. You’re irrationality is the BEST argument for teaching your kids to to think for themselves instead of arguing AGAINST your best interest because that’s what you’re used to. In short, you’re a crab in the barrel. 🦀 Arguing for others to be the same as if THAT would make you happy. How’s that working out for you? 🤪 🤣

Parents like you are why defense attorneys get rich.

This is why it’s called fatherless behavior.

Misbehaving is absolutely a thing. 🙄 y’all are the folks that give rise to “promising young men”.

@ParkrosePermaculture

Ай бұрын

Behavior is communication. Misbehavior is about your perception, not what your kids are doing.