I am ok with these guys if they were consistent. Last year mega corporations got billions from the govt they didn't complain. It is if the little guy wants minimum wage something he has worked for they get into a rage. Nobody is advocating any ism, but fairness. Money cannot concentrate in a few hands.

"Democracy is the road to Socialism." - Karl Marx "The goal of Socialism is Communism." - Vladimir Lenin

@JasonManners

3 жыл бұрын

@Joel Ashworth in the US I like to remind people we do not have a democratic government but a Republic.

@kieranhimself3655

3 жыл бұрын

@@JasonManners like Australia we have 2 major parties interested in feathering their own nests

@paulkiernan2632

3 жыл бұрын

To date Marx was wrong about all of his prophesies

@ashishgiri699

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulkiernan2632 he did predict about the economic recession that we are facing currently

@JdoubleU1222

2 жыл бұрын

@@ashishgiri699 The economic recession we're in right now is the result of the left closing down the country over a virus that has a 99% survival rate for most people.

Ferguson is right to ridicule AOC & her socialist ideals, but he's wrong to smugly dismiss the growing influence that people like her posses. .

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

I couldn't fault anything that Niall Ferguson said. I'm not sure he did "... smugly dismiss the growing influence that people like her [AOC] posses". I rewound the video and couldn't see or hear anything smug in it. Given more time (this talk is about 9 mins), who's to say he hasn't something to say about that. In what part of the video did you see "smugly"?

@nickdougan394

4 жыл бұрын

L1, I don't think he's dismissing that influence - I think that he sees it as a coming car crash.

@LK-vv2xk

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnmatrix7003 RIght at the start. NF seems to think socialism is only viewed positively on college campuses, such as where AOC obtained her degree in economics, but that wider society takes a dim view of socialism. That, in my view, is a smug dismissal of reality. As Andrew Sullivan recently opined "we are all on campus now".

@Simon-gc6uf

3 жыл бұрын

@@LK-vv2xk The wider society does take a dim view of socialism, they however are the silent majority and through their cowardice stay silent which is why "we are all on campus now".

@LK-vv2xk

3 жыл бұрын

@@Simon-gc6uf I hope you're right, but I'm starting to wonder whether the majority is silent or simply dwindling in numbers.

Q - What is the cure for socialism? A - Go and live in a socialist country for a year.

@brokenbulbs

3 жыл бұрын

Like Sweden,? With all those socialist babes?

@Deadpool-st9dr

3 жыл бұрын

Gordon Graham Sweden is not a socialist country

@brokenbulbs

3 жыл бұрын

@@Deadpool-st9dr Relatively speaking (America), it is - without a doubt. This is why definitions are essential. On the other hand, if you were living in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge era, you would see Sweden as capitalism on steroids and meth.

@JasonManners

3 жыл бұрын

@@brokenbulbs that is by far not a socialist country. They are not even close and they will be the first to tell you.

@donk3618

3 жыл бұрын

@@Deadpool-st9dr what is a socialist country?

Wait, did he literally do the "That's not socialism, that's capitalism with strong welfare policies" "Well let's do that" "No, that's Socialism" meme in real life?

@devinelouis

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, he sure did

@James_36

2 жыл бұрын

@@julymagnus493 you cant have your own facts. socialism is exactly what he described and your idea of it is simply factually incorrect. You lefties make up so many meanings to justify everything is it any wonder people dont vote for them generally

@dawidio

2 жыл бұрын

@@James_36 He's talking about State Socialism. There are different kinds of socialism just like there are different kinds of Democracies, Communism, Capitalism, whatever. Socialism is only exactly as he described if you only consider one kind of socialism. "You lefties" is an interesting thing to type. And guess what? In the US people tend overwhelmingly to the left, but underwhelmingly turn out to vote. When the process is controled by big money, SuperPACS, and legalized corruption - coupled with a horrendous amount of mis/disinformation it's no wonder everyone is confused about what things mean, how they're implemented, what their goals are, and what they imply...

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." WC

@zahariachirica5466

4 жыл бұрын

Socialism means common ownership of some goods and services in society, not all. Socialism is not communism as the Americans think it is. We have plenty of socialism in the UE, including UK, and we are quite happy with that and would like to have some more. It's horrifying to us the degree of inequality you have in the US. It's a socialist country like Denmark , by your american standard concept of socialism I mean,where are living the most happy people in the world, I mean ordinary people.

@zahariachirica5466

3 жыл бұрын

@Steing Groburf You're cannot be but an idiot even if you might be a danish living in Denmark. All The EU countries to some extent are more or less socialist countries. Don be stupid as those Americans that think : socialism = communism. Socialism as a complex set of economic and social policies it's mainly about common ownership of some goods and services. In all EU states there are mixed economies you moron. The state run Health system for instance is universal and works along the private one.

@johngreenshaw3283

3 жыл бұрын

@@zahariachirica5466 You are correct in that the ever closer union that is the EU is a socialist wet dream, and bit by bit the slow eradication of the value of your vote at some point you will understand what has happened, the neutering of your sovereign Danish government to the be replaced by the bureaucratic unelected elite who know what is good for you and you will comply with the ever closer union. The EU is a failed project, the people of Europe know it, the Germans really know it, they can feel the benefits of the Euro i.e. a devalued currency allows everyone to drive VW's, BMW's and Merc's but at what social cost. You will perhaps come to terms with it as you as a Danish taxpayer are paying for the benefits of the failed states of he EU at the moment 1.15 billion euro net contribution but the UK has gone and 12 billion to find, because the EU is not in a mood to cut its cloth to fit. The other facts about the EU where the French Farmers and their precious CAP, the stupidity of operating from two locations just to keep the French on board!

@suttonformutton6094

3 жыл бұрын

@John M Neither socialism or capitalism work. Capitalism is far superior to socialism, but it's still flawed, which is understandable, it's made by human beings who are also flawed. We are essentially living under socialism today, what with massive social security schemes and the bailouts you mentioned. If we were truly living in a capitalist state, the banks would not have been bailed out, but we aren't. I personally don't like WC, but I detest socialism/communism more, so I just used a quote that treated those ridiculous ideas with the contempt they deserve.

@vardaanvardhan9932

3 жыл бұрын

@@zahariachirica5466 per capita income of USA is still higher than UK.

As an Argentinian I agree wholeheartedly

@ccunliffe

2 жыл бұрын

As an Englishman I agree wholefartedly

I am an economics teacher, and I also feel a failure, totally.

@neomagneto84

3 жыл бұрын

From your perspective would socialism across the board (so not just a few more policies) could ever work? There are a lot of politicians that celebrate it but most economists seem to be against it, but I could be wrong.

@fractalnomics

3 жыл бұрын

@@neomagneto84 No.

@gabbar51ngh

3 жыл бұрын

What branch of economics you Support? Chicago economics?

@fractalnomics

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabbar51ngh I have my own (fractal economics) but it will defend the Austrian.

@Poshypaws

2 жыл бұрын

@@asherujudo7383 "In short, due to the various government structures around the world, competition among political parties will never rival competition among private companies, hence socialism will always be less efficient than capitalism." Quite clearly, this viewpoint is devoid of any sense or reasoning. Quite clearly, this statement demonstrates no knowledge of "capitalism" in 19th century Europe. Quite clearly, this statement, at its core, demonstrates why capitalism is an utterly wasteful and danger to the future of the planet. I can only shake my head at the gross stupidity contained within thirty-one words!

You can argue that Keynesian deficit spending is irrational but it helped rearm England for the fight of its life versus Germany and without the US huge keynsian spending in support of that effort it would have ceased to exist as we know it. Its resurgence under Thatcherism austerity is also a reflection of its comparatively low defense expenditure in comparison to the US from whom it came to rely and cut its once first class navy. Times have changed and now it's resting on a reluctant and strapped us economy.

“And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…” Martin Luther King Jr. -Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967

@handico77

3 жыл бұрын

There were forty million poor people in America in 1967 because of the poor choices that were made by those forty million people!

@SkullKing11841

3 жыл бұрын

Poverty is normal. Its the natural state of humans. Therefor I think the reverse on this question. Why are there tens or hundreds of millions of people not in poverty in the U.S. or other developed countries. Why does the current economic system allow so many to not be poor in the face of natural forces. It does raise questions as to why we still have poverty in all developed countries. I would say that its partly how its defined and partly that government gets in the way regulating and socializing the economy which limits peoples opportunities.

@legalfictionnaturalfact3969

3 жыл бұрын

@@handico77 sweetie, you are low iq.

@legalfictionnaturalfact3969

3 жыл бұрын

@@SkullKing11841 no, everyone can be rich. those who are doing well are doing so IN SPITE of the system, not because of it.

@polemeros

3 жыл бұрын

Still quoting that 20th century fraud? Cringe.

As the late Margaret Thatcher stated so we’ll “ socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money”

Economics Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman on Ferguson : Ferguson is a "poseur" who "hasn't bothered to understand the basics, relying on snide comments and surface cleverness to convey the impression of wisdom. It's all style, no comprehension of substance.'' Once again Ferguson stood true to that! 👏

@Poshypaws

2 жыл бұрын

Ferguson is a charlatan. Ferguson was a charlatan. Ferguson will be a charlatan in future. This tripe could have been uttered in 30 seconds and still this idiot would not have made any relevant point or given an impulse to further discussion.

Teachers and academics have harboured a soft spot for socialism for a very long time, that's why they have never taught the horrors of it. Most teachers have never actually had a job outside university and teaching and live in an academic bubble.

When someone is worried about the national debt they are called a conservative. When someone is worried about the student debt they are called a socialist. The only reason for the different labels is that different classes of people are affected when you try to lower these debts, guess which ones. But it makes no sense, debt is debt and it's normal that people are worried about it. The American student population is the most debt burdened in the world. I think the desire to do something about it is not even socialist, it's simply "natural", or rational if you will, because such large debts are a real and serious burden.

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

The national debt affects everyone, regardless of who you are. Student loan debts are the results of poor choices made by individuals. Further more, student load debt *contributes* to national debt over all, so any measures taken to tackle the national debt will inevitable also affect student loan debt. The American student population may be the most burdened, *but they chose that burden.* And what do they do with it? I have never met a more entitled class of people than American university students. *It's not my fault your education is worthless. It's not my fault you went into debt to get it. It's not my fault university professors are Marxist ideologues and it's not my fault your parents didn't give enough of a sh!t to warn you against such a stupid choice like university.* So you'll understand why my concern with the national debt is a little greater.

@dawidio

2 жыл бұрын

@@MMDelta9 Student loan debts are the results of poor choices is a... poor statement. It negates the underlying machinations of a system geared towards debt production and debt dependence. If you live and work in the US you are almost guaranteed to owe debt somewhere to some bank or institution just to live a normal life. That isn't bad choices, that's the sytem working towards the dismantling of the middle class.

@MMDelta9

2 жыл бұрын

@@dawidio "It negates the underlying machinations of a system geared towards debt production and debt dependence" But a little bit of knowledge and thinking *would* negate those machinations. Owing under 1k on a credit card is nothing compared to 20 times that on a loan you cannot default. What's more, the product acquired for that 20k *is not worth it!* The value to a university degree has been artificially inflated beyond absurdity. The system dismantling the lower class only works if you buy into it. *Don't.*

Working fine in the UK 👍

@zaartac

Жыл бұрын

Scandinavia also.

Too much curruption EVERYWHERE....that's what makes thing fail.....It's greed thats in our DNA and eventually every political idiology will fail. History teaches us well...we just need to be reminded every now and then.

Does he realise the future economic cost alone of climate change if/when unchecked will be many times greater than action now ... although there must be drastic international action immediately

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

Which climate change is that? The climate change that says we're getting warmer or the climate change that says we're getting colder?

Let's talk about fiscal redistribution in Australia. Negative gearing is inequality entrenched transfer payments to real estate speculators.

@dansmith9724

2 жыл бұрын

Could say negative gearing supplies houses to the rental market. Stop negative gearing and rental supply will deminish as demand for rentals skyrockets.

@aaronhogan2371

2 жыл бұрын

@@dansmith9724 except that nonsense has been debunked so consistently anyone that raises it is either a Real Estate industry schill or devoid of brain matter, possibly both.

@dansmith9724

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronhogan2371 it was proven the the labor party in the 1980s stop negative gearing. It didnt last long as they saw the strife they made and reversed it. So it has played out in real life. So not nonsense, it actually happened. Unless you want to deny tecent history.

@aaronhogan2371

2 жыл бұрын

@@dansmith9724 straight from the old RE playbook hey? Look, you seem to have some functional level of literacy so I'll leave it up to you to dig a little bit deeper into whether rents went up, down, sideways or whatever in each state. But I'll give you a hot tip, your version of economic history is blinkered if you think that is what happened.

@dansmith9724

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronhogan2371 reading with understanding isnt your strong point. Maybe try and look up rental availability which is what i was on about. If labor party didnt reverse negative gearing, increased demand would have put rents up as more and more people would have been looking for housing. Economics 101 really. Its happening right now in SE Qld as availability is low due to the increased population of southerners moving north. Dont let what actually goes on interrupt your theory.

Now with 15% inflation and a 1% entitlement adjustment. Problem solved.

As an economist has said: at the moment we live in a society where it is socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.

@karlheven8328

4 жыл бұрын

Fair comment. And all that just to avoid recessions...

@reasonablespeculation3893

4 жыл бұрын

"the rich" is a meaningless phrase In the USA "the poor" pay no income tax, and get subsidized housing, free food, and free medical. The top 10% pay 70% of all federal income tax. bottom 50% pays 3 - 3.5 percent

@arthurfnshelby4335

4 жыл бұрын

Reasonable Speculation there is also the case that the 10% pay less of a proportion of their income in tax. I.e if an average tax payer pays overall 30% of their income in tax the top 10%will pay 25%

@tonyves

4 жыл бұрын

@@arthurfnshelby4335 But Arthur, question is: who and what system makes us rich? Clue: (and I post as one whose family laboured under Socialism for 45 years in CZ), it ain't Socialism.

@montrealdandy

3 жыл бұрын

@@reasonablespeculation3893 And the 3 richest men possess more wealth than the bottom 50% of the population, that is a fact.

Socialism works just fine for the rich ruling class. “Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the rest of us”.

@ironsideeve2955

2 жыл бұрын

Been that way in the west for a while

NF is great, read his book, 'The Square and the Tower'. Also married to Ayaan Hirsi Ali ❤️

@rang123yea5

4 жыл бұрын

His other book "The Assent of Money" is also great.

@kimberleygirl7533

4 жыл бұрын

Ayaan Hirsi Aly is one of my heroes.

@jerrytugable

4 жыл бұрын

Susan McGlasson Yes of mine too 👍

@soapbxprod

4 жыл бұрын

The War of the World! What a brilliant series

NF in the long list of Scottish Enlightenment economic thinkers look to Hume and Smith

@rhobatbrynjones7374

2 жыл бұрын

Ferguson can't hold a candle to Hume and Smith. He's an after-dinner speaker fond of assertions based on selective use of evidence.

Sadly, I don't think most working class people in Britain don't have the same gut hostility to socialism. A bit like the opposite of the use of the word 'fascism', people just assume socialism to be a positive thing without having any substantial grasp of what it means. It may be different in England but that has been my experience in Glasgow.

@TheFatController.

4 жыл бұрын

I find that working class English people THINK they are socialists, but they are actually just labour voters of the past that wanted representation.

@highvibe4839

3 жыл бұрын

John Bull haven’t you been watching The peaky Blinders? Lol 😆 violent, but brilliant!

Education should focus on brain maturation and I will explain what it is, with formal teaching. As Thomas Sowell said, It's not that they can't produce a reasoning it's that they believe that having emotions is reasoning. We become civilized, the brain has a maturation to achieve to get to that point. This means 1) to work on the reward system so that it favors reason over emotions 2) They must adhere to the principle of reality, that it is unique and its existence doesn't depend on what we would like it to be. 3) To learn to use reason as a feedback loop with reality, which implies learning to accept to be wrong and learn with reason to enhance oneself, your ideas, your projects, etc.

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

On the money you are.

@EmperorsNewWardrobe

2 жыл бұрын

“Reason as a feedback loop with reality” is a brilliant phrase. Is that your own?

@petermaquine8173

2 жыл бұрын

​@@EmperorsNewWardrobe Thank you, and yes, but you know the saying "I'm standing here on the shoulders of giants". It is often difficult if not impossible to know whose thinkers influenced you for such or such ideas, but in this particular case, I know. I was studying Chap 24: The revolt against reason of K. Popper's open society and its enemies and the book of Donella Meadows "Thinking in systems" (Studying means for me, making cross-reference with other thinkers). She explained that people should learn to think of the world as systems and in particular to understand feedback loops, that the consequences of a politic (she gave education as an example) can become the cause of its downfall or success. She even gave a criterion. To function systems need a feedback loop, but that feedback loop needs itself a point of reference, which will impact the returned information. She states that an internal point of reference to a system will induce its downfall (a system is its own reference). Systems need an absolute point of reference so that the feedback loop increases its functioning. Reality can be seen as an absolute point of reference, but only if we consider reality as unique and immutable (we have no power to define or change its laws). I have translated what Popper was saying about the "irrationalists" in the language of systems. Collectivists are fundamentally irrationalists, he explained, who use their instincts/emotions as an internal point of reference, while rationalists depend on their cognition which needs an external point of reference provided by reality. Reason is therefore the feedback loop with reality. I find all of these authors fascinating, but I don't find many echoes to today's thinkers. Sad and not helpful regarding our situation.

@carmenlajoie2719

2 жыл бұрын

Brain maturation comes with knowledge, Sowell sold out to the Koch bros. The Evil in the US trying to destroy public education for private.

These strident arguments don’t work. Neither pure capitalism or pure socialism is the answer, but a constant discourse

@rw4025

3 жыл бұрын

YES! Someone sensible in the youtube comments, praise the lord!

It would be interesting to hear Mr. Ferguson's views on the future of the universities.

I remember around 8 years ago discovering Niall Ferguson but he was not talking about economics but the history of military adventures and how they led to Iraq and Afghanistan and then years later I picked up How Britain made the modern world which was in a similar vein then I read The Ascent of Money and realised how skilled he was like a musician who plays one instrument and then is able to switch to others’ with ease. He even discusses a moneyless world which completely contradicts the idea of utopian Marxism. Also for those who have only heard of the Gold Standard from a Harry Enfield sketch this book discusses the pros and cons in detail and what happened in the 1970’s. Thoroughly entertaining and engaging style on and off paper.

When I hear about the debt of social security, medicare, etc., the retirement date should have changed with life expectancy. When social security started the avg life expectancy was 59.9 m / 63.9 f, which means more than half would not collect. Now life expectancy is 78.9, yet the SS retirement age today is 66 yrs 6 months. The retirement age should have been adjusted significantly higher. I am 72 still working; we have several in our company in the late 70's still working. I do not need social security and would not be collecting if the govt did not freeze my benefits when I turned 70. So now I collect and return a part of it in taxation. The system needs to be significantly re-vamped and yet when this is discussed it is political suicide.

@ken8of8

2 жыл бұрын

Re-vamped yes, but in the way you are suggesting. It's about time some social dividend was actually paid out to society rather than the owners/controllers of capital.

I wonder if Niall agrees with much else of Kotlikoff’s work. For example, the paper I see discussing intergenerarional wealth issues starts off with a discussion of “inequality”... since the only resolution to inequality is equality this supposes the solution is everyone has the same wealth...

When will you discuss the dangers of technocracy, as that is where the modern left is moving?

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Would like to hear him give some of us a mini lesson. Google. Technocracy. Noun: 1. the government or control of society or industry by an elite of technical experts. 2. an instance or application of technocracy. 3. an elite of technical experts. Google. How is technocracy related to scientism? Scientism ridicules faith and religion and tells us that “God is dead.” Scientism tells us that the “debate is over,” so shut up and get in line. And, of course, scientism leads us to technocracy.

@RageRabbitGames

3 жыл бұрын

The biggest danger I see is that people believe that all academics are dedicated to the truth and will stand firm to what science says. However, as recently demonstrated it is clear that the modern left employs science selectively. For example, they condemn a trump rally as a coronavirus risk, but say that protesting BLM is just, and some even went as far as to call it a brave reason for breaking quarantine.

@wtk6069

3 жыл бұрын

Technocracy is the ideological offspring of futurism, whose political component gave birth to both socialism (and later Marxism, including Marxist reform movements like communism and fascism) and progressivism. It's interesting but rarely discussed how tightly these philosophies are intertwined in their origins and even today.

These people have no clue, it's sad.

@pablovandres

3 жыл бұрын

Which people?

@gabbar51ngh

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty Sure Niall is on point here.

A mechanism for debt forgiveness on a continental scale needs to be on the table... The idea of a "Debt Jubilee" needs to be pushed into the public vernacular.

@pinarellolimoncello

3 жыл бұрын

totally agree, think the old testament says all debt over 7 years old, debt crisis would never have materialised and ridiculous house price inflation if lenders saw that they risked losing their money if it went repaid after 7 years. Silly bollocks satn has fooled everyone into the benefit of borrowing more and more money and everyone has fallen for it and now look at the mess. Same idiot then comes up with cryptocurrency rather than debt jubilee and restoration of diverse global currencies.

@pinarellolimoncello

3 жыл бұрын

edit...debt over 7 years old is to be written off.

@snowflakemelter1172

2 жыл бұрын

That makes these in debt nations not responsible for their actions and they will just do it again.

What has been a systemic problem as of late is the poisoning of our youth in universities. If your unwilling to provide objective debate in the class room you end up with the mess we’re in today.

@amraceway

4 жыл бұрын

That's right blame those have no economic power not monopoly capitalism.

@highvibe4839

3 жыл бұрын

Yep large problem, you nailed it! KZread stars or socialism - identity crisis right there!

@Poshypaws

2 жыл бұрын

"What has been a systemic problem as of late is the poisoning of our youth in universities. If your unwilling to provide objective debate in the class room you end up with the mess we’re in today". Poisoning our youth in universities??? Would this be the self-same McNamarian poison that low achieving black youth received by the spoonful in the 1960s??? Or that odious poison that would just not leave that lynched, hanging body of a black American?? Or that poison that still emanates from the bottle, marked the Munroe/Quincy Doctrine??

State owned, independently directed enterprises are efficient providers of services and goods, while returning all profits to the state for the use of the public; either to lower taxes or pay for social services. This model ( SOEs) has functioned exceedingly well in New Zealand for 35 years. Niall Ferguson is a berk!

Yet another in a long, long line of great interviews, brought to us by the awesome John Anderson. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Is this the same Niall Ferguson that wrote Empire? I loved that book

@alexanderpink1267

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, great writer

Government's need to better balance where printed money goes as this is one of the main causes of inflation. Rather than just looking at job figures and economic output, providing economic assistance to first time house buyers is a good step forward. The old idea that government debt needs to be paid back to reserve banks is beginning to be better understood, and that taxes are there to help balance equality, not to fix a mismanaged balance sheet.

compassion is inefficient war is profitable

Fergusson should try Richard Wolff.

@snowflakemelter1172

2 жыл бұрын

Wolfe is in a cult of his own making and totally unable to take his blinkers off.

@hotstixx

2 жыл бұрын

@@snowflakemelter1172 And fergusson yearns for the old days of Empire and is an apologist for neo-colonialism.

2008 taught me to avoid Manicheism and purely ideology-based thinking, especially in economic matters.

State capitalism as in the USSR was called socialism, so capitalism and socialism don't necessary exclude each other. But people mean a number of different things by socialism so we get off track when discussing the issue as we are talking about different forms of socialism. 1) The purest form of socialism was that espoused by Bakunin. He called it Collectivist Anarchism. It's never been implemented because there doesn't seem to be any way to get there from here. And it wouldn't be stable. 2) A common meaning is the ownership by the government of all the major industries but with private property and private capitalism for small businesses. 3) Then there is a strong welfare state with a widespread, but not complete, leveling of incomes. This is required to get the money to pay for all the social programs. Otherwise, private capitalism exists. 4) And, of course, there is what the USSR had, state capitalism with no private ownership of property (at least in theory).

@whichfinder

3 жыл бұрын

www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/what-socialism/

Certain things have been funded out of the public purse for as long as states have existed. Generally, in a free society though, I'd recommend to anyone who wants to see fairer, more effective distribution to join a co-op, rather than vote socialist.

It depends on what they mean by "socialism". The Nordic countries are socialist, and their populations enjoy a very high standard of living. I think it is important to distinguish between oppressive communist regimes such as North Korea, and social democracies like those in Western and Northern Europe. The former is a failed state, while the latter are among the most advanced and thriving societies on earth.

@alextabet9247

2 жыл бұрын

@General Melchett I have read Marx. But in today's world, political parties right of center tend to refer to any country that provides affordable healthcare and education, as well as a living wage for its workers as "socialist". So when a person like Ferguson uses the word socialist, it needs to be further qualified.

@alextabet9247

2 жыл бұрын

I am glad you brought up Bernie Sanders. He never claimed to be a socialist, and yet, his political opponents, both republican and democrat, insist that he is. Do you deny that? If not, then I rest my case. In today's political landscape, the word "socialist" is used freely and without foundation.

This is such old debate it's boring we know already spoke by many great minds same old same old

So when does it all come crashing down or do we just live a life of "shared misery" moving forward.

@davidcoomber4050

2 жыл бұрын

60% of every banknote in circulation has been printed in the past 7 months, 2022 will see a total collapse of the globule financial system and the introduction of a cashless society and total control of the global population by the banks, you will have nothing and be happy.

I am living in a country called itself a socialiist nation. But, the question is I never know what the general meaning socialism is, let alone communism. People in China and other nations never stop talking about soicalism and communism on all medias. but how many know something of the definitions?

From the lecture: Firstly, we don't really teach young people about socialism. So if you actually know about the history of socialism, it has been tried in many different countries in many different ways, and it has always failed, then you would be unlikely to think it was a good idea. There's a lot of confusion around what this word socialism means and it turns out that when you actually quiz people they're actually just talking about Sweden, and the welfare state, and what they really mean is we would really quite like to have more redistributive progressive taxation, or would like to have a different system of single payer health care. Those policies were devised by christian democrats as well as social democrats after WWII to prevent socialism from happening. Socialism is about the state controlling the means of production, and that state control designed to prevent free enterprise, has been a disastrous failure everywhere it has been tried because it is a recipe for corruption and economic failure. Point two, young people have not been well educated about fiscal policy and its distributional implications. If young people understood their own self interests in the U.S., they would have all been fans of Paul Ryans "Roadmap for Entitlement Reform" which never happened because it was scrapped as an idea by Donald Trump, but entitlement reform is crucial because the main reason the federal debt is growing inextricably each year is that there are a whole bunch of unfunded liabilities on social security, medicare, Medicaid that we don't have any way of affording and the problem gets bigger with every passing year. The loser from these fiscal policies are clearly the younger and the unborn. Larry Kotlikov, ironically of Boston University, has argued for years that there is this massive generational imbalance and that what current policy does, is to transfer resources from the young and the unborn to baby boomers and seniors in massive generational inequity, that as you rightly say John, violates Burkes contract between the generations. They all ought to be right wing, they should all be campaigning for entitlement reform, they should be campaigning for the kind of policies that would bring the debt under control, so there is what used to be called false consciousness at work here, ironically, many young voters are lured into siding with the very interest groups that have their interests least at heart, e.g. public sector unions. Now public sector unions in most developed countries are the villains of the peace who want to create huge liabilities in the forms of pension for their members to be funded by future generation of workers. But young people will for some reason be duped into aligning themselves with those very interest who have their interests least at heart. So we've had a double failure in education.

This man is fantastic. Love his work.

@brokenbulbs

3 жыл бұрын

Cognitive bias. You like him because he confirms your own, subjective views on the world.

@NY-Dani

3 жыл бұрын

@@brokenbulbs I keep an open mind and generally impartial

This is part of the problem. In America in particular, the word "socialism" is used to describe anything left of the Republican party, when in fact much of it is exactly like what professor Ferguson says - christian democracy or social democracy

@focast1825

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, definitions of nearly everything important have been redefined fluidly as a means to confuse the conversation.

Universal basic income..2030 agenda.. Artificial intelligence .. grow up and wake up

I still can’t believe we even need to have these conversations. No one feels a need to say “Fascism doesn’t work.”

Niall Ferguson benefited from free University education himself, but doesn't seem to think the younger generation deserve it. Stereotypical boomer attitude. He's also missing the point, that in the USian discourse, single payer healthcare is referred by many, especially conservatives, as 'socialism'. He's correct in that it's not, as most civilised countries have a public healthcare system.

@willleahy6958

2 жыл бұрын

@@baneetdhawan6702 Spot on. Degrees have become a paltry consumer good, mass-marketed, and barely worth the paper they're written on. Real education provides a good for society (weasel word, I know) and should be difficult and free.

The Aus. PM seems to be saying that capitalism does not work. Is socialism does not work and capitalism does not work, could it be that a blend of the two might work: socialism tending to distribute more equitably the gains of capitalism and capitalism guarding against the inefficiencies of socialism?

ANY system can be pushed too far. In fact, there has been a natural urge to tweak systems to do more of what they supposedly do, what they are especially built to do: to reify it and intensify it. Capitalism is all about efficiency. In the search to squeeze more efficiency out of capitalism, PEOPLE are sometimes left behind. And the point is, if you think the system itseklf embodies some kind of moral virtue, ... maybe some people SHOULD be left behind. Humans have tended to fetish-ize the advantage of their given system and then to push that more and more until the downside becomes glaring and the system breaks. In the case of the USA, I mean public support for the current social contract. We should be adult enough to accept a MODERATE balance ... well-regulated capitalism is probably the best and most stable system in human history. But if you want to blame someone for the breakdown, it is easy for the advocates of more capitalist freedom to blame its critics and those proposing more government controls. But I believe it is just as valid to blame those people who have worked to dismantle the system out of an excess of belief that the purity of capitalism is the goal. Do we want freedoms that entail the right of some to screw the rest? BTW, the Federalist-Society people who are being installed in the judiciary hold to a notion that virtually all government regulation of the economy is unconstitutional. The American system--a balance of well-regulated capitalism, though now much afflicted--is being infested by termites who may one day collapse it. You fear social upheaval and socialist revolution? That day may be coming.

@Poshypaws

2 жыл бұрын

"Capitalism is all about efficiency". Pity it is not the 1st April! This is a classic!!! "In the search to squeeze more efficiency out of capitalism, PEOPLE are sometimes left behind". Is this supposed to be a serious statement to which individuals are supposed to react seriously? Well-regulated capitalism: interesting, interesting. I fear I detect the growth of an oxymoron!

IF Mr FERGUSON WOULD BE KIND ENOUGH TO ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTION - I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY THE QUESTION IS ‘Why are there / over / forty million poor people in America?

@littleflower8915

3 жыл бұрын

Define"poor".

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

Because resources are finite.

Agree with everything, but I would like to make the point that capitalism cannot survive without a sufficient safety net. History has shown us that if the income gap gets too large then conflict/revolution/war follows. The issue is the quantum of the safety net. I would suggest that in the US the safety net is too small and in some European countries it is too large. Both situations at unsustainable.

Good question, why hasn't "socialism" been taught at universities? The answer is not obvious since History of Economic Thought has been removed from most economics programs. I can't be tho only one who winces at the sound of Ferguson's voice. Temper that sing-along-box with sticks of taffy. "You can't have something for nothing, Zaphod." - Humma Kavula

@jxmai7687

2 жыл бұрын

Today education is just like brainwash for many people, it make people become part of the economics machine with set of rules. people would not accept or even just listen to the different idea or opinion.

I cannot get into my husbands head that Socialism has failed in every country it has been tried in , it’s the biggest source of argument between us and I am relieved to hear Niall Ferguson say so , I was beginning to doubt myself .

@ken8of8

2 жыл бұрын

Your hubby sounds like he is right on the money. Show me a country where Socialism has 'failed' and I will show you where Capitalist countries/institutions have interfered. BTW self doubt is not, in and of itself, an altogether bad thing.

@GOGOLH

2 жыл бұрын

So neoliberalism's working, is it? Really?

@hosz5499

2 жыл бұрын

Outsourced Pollution etc is an unaccounted cost of capitalism. See my post earlier debunking “history shows what works”. Without counting the livelihood of southern slaves, their economy was the strongest in the world, strongest export economy as the price was kept low. Perhaps the south economy was even bigger and more successful than the north then.

@GOGOLH

2 жыл бұрын

Did you really think Ferguson would not say that?

All young people should listen to this

This dude claims to be mapping a system but it's not within his remit to factor in the post-fractional reserve monetary system that we have, which is an area so complex there's barely any consensus amongst economists. But without that aspect of the system accounted for you can't talk about public finances and how much we should be cutting from public spending. And so what's being said here is also a failure of education; he should be frankly acknowledging that he doesn't have the requisite understanding of money to be able to give such an analysis. But then he wouldn't be able to revel in his sense of self-importance.

Debt will be hyper-inflated away in the future as it always has been, or written off. Others will just flatly refuse to pay.. Debt is only a belief that someone will pay it back one day, and like all beliefs, even sacrosanct ones, can be dismantled if necessity decrees. Therefore, the image that our children and grandchildren will be lumbered with this debt is absurd. But don’t tell anyone this obvious fact, or the borrowing merry-go-round will come to a shuddering halt, as the belief bubble is burst.

@methods3110

2 жыл бұрын

Just another con that has to be made believable and sacrosanct in the minds of the people. To achieve this believability we create very wise sounding academics with ‘chairs’ at prestigious universities that write learned books, speaking with authoritative tone, inventing pseudo scientific terms that befuddle the mind, and magically a belief is born.

If a person can graduate from university simply accepting what one's teachers have claimed then the institution can hardly be called 'educational'. Beyond that, although I find myself in agreement with much of what Professor Ferguson says (for what my opinion is worth!), I suspect that the way in which he expresses himself makes it appear that he opposes people who hope for the best for others. Put briefly, he appears in to be in the same big camp with fairly ruthless capitalists.

@Poshypaws

2 жыл бұрын

Of course Ferguson is in the same big camp. This self-appointed genius forgets to tell you that this oh-so-wonderful system that Ferguson supports is the self same system responsible for the catastrophes around the planet.

Yeah, free education is really terrible. Just look at Sweden, Finnland, Austria, Germany, etc... Its terrible to live there o.0

Joseph Schumpeter would disagree with this assertion. Some "form" of socialism will be capitalism's "heir apparent" due to the secondary effects of capitalism's successes - not because it doesn't work. Note, the emphasis on some "form" of socialism. , Conceptual clarity? . Define socialism. He skipped over that. He can simply point to Venezuela as a simplistic extreme? . Want to see some form of socialism in action? Look no further than the US "State" stepping in, in 2008, to save the likes of Lehman Brothers. When they were in the shit. . What of the grinning, smug Richard Branson pleading to the government for help when his airline was collapsing? . "The privitization of profits, and the socialization of losses," as Nassim Taleb puts it. . One of the many successes of capitalism is the "rationalization of life" - evident in the decision not to have children, which, in turn, leads to ageing populations. Take Japan, Italy, and China as examples. It is this that undermines capitalism's ability to survive - in its current form. . The question should be: . "Where on the capitalist-socialist continuum is the sweet spot?" , Quit your binary thinking. . You are welcome. . N.B. . To illustrate. Niall Ferguson would be "sans young child" if his African wife followed his rational-thinking, capitalist doctrine. But. When you are in love, as I would be, rationality goes out the window. . "The true pacemakers of socialism were not the intellectuals or agitators who preached it, but the Vanderbilts, Carnegies and Rockefellers." . - Joseph Schumpeter (1942, p. 134)

@LaminarSound

3 жыл бұрын

Lot of truth in your comment. I was/am vehemently against corporate bailouts. I don’t see how anyone thinks it’s a good idea (at least if you aren’t on the benefitting side) to bailout large corporations.

@gordongordon5705

3 жыл бұрын

@@LaminarSound Thank you you for being real. "The middle man" - says it all. No mention of the huge gap in inequality. (Oh. Jet your shit together like the lucky guy I was.)

@brokenbulbs

3 жыл бұрын

@@gordongordon5705 *get

@brokenbulbs

3 жыл бұрын

To even rationalize breeding as if he is special? Ha! I have been to Africa and met beautiful women.

And in other news...water is wet.

@amraceway

4 жыл бұрын

And our water is privately owned by foreign opaque private equity corporations. What progress. They now own the land and water , just the air we breathe to go.

Socialism isn’t the answer... but neither is this flavour of capitalism.

@williambunter3311

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, Carwyn. The resource-based capitalism that emerged from the industrial revolution had , despite its many drawbacks, an overall effect of making the population better off. This did not, of course, remove inequality, but full equality is not possible anyway, and perhaps not even desirable, at least not in terms of outcome. However the financial capitalism of today is not resource-based. Banks are printing money and lending money which is only virtual. The actual material resources which money is supposed to represent are not there. If everybody closed their accounts at the same time, the bank would not have the resources to pay out. I am not an economist, but from what I have gathered, the removal of the gold standard is the underlying cause of the virtual economic systems which operate so greedily and selfishly today.

The failure is not education but rather propaganda

Doubtless much of what you say is true. But how do you explain the present mess we're in Niall? The financial crisis wasn't caused by socialism. And how do you explain the 30 year old crisis in house building which John refers to? Who is to replenish the housing stock if not governments?

Guess how you convince young people to not be socialist? Fix the problems with income inequality. Instead of blaming young people for being pro AOC, maybe offer a solution for the issues they care about.

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

You will never fix the problems of inequality because people are naturally unequal. You wouldn't need to convince young people not to be socialist *if their teachers were f*cking honest about what socialism is and does!* But university professors are stuffed-shirt, rich, intellectual sophists who refuse to be honest about socialism. They are Marxists and want to destroy private property. So they'll take hundreds of thousands in private money to brainwash young people into a socio-economic death cult. AOC is a symptom of a much larger problem.

@standupguyjoe

3 жыл бұрын

@@MMDelta9 Sir, take a deep breath, go stare at a body of water. I believe everyone just wants the best for America, but we have very different views on how to get there. Progress can be made when we understand where each other is coming from. Forsure, profs who profess the value of socialism are a bit ridiculous.

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

@@standupguyjoe You are wrong. These socialists do not want what is best for America Is burning and looting cities best for America? Is cancel culture what is best for America? Is tearing down statues of the men who founded the country and freed the slaves best for America? Does "No Trump, no wall, no USA at all" sound like something someone who wants what is best for America would say?

@standupguyjoe

3 жыл бұрын

@@MMDelta9 Fine. You don't like the way some people are acting, totally fair. But let me ask, do you understand why some people are unhappy with police brutality/ racism/ Trump? I understand the issues you're bringing up and the issues people bring up about Biden. Just please know that not every registered Democrat "hates America" as much as Tucker Carlson would like you to believe.

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

@@standupguyjoe Said Democrats have now begun to vote for Trump. Has it occurred to yourself that there is a reason for that? That perhaps the claims of police brutality, general racism and Trump have been inflated by a sensationalist mainstream media? Cause #WalkAway is a real thing.

4:17 today I learned Niall Ferguson doesn't know what socalism is

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

Wait, let me guess, *you* somehow got it right tho?

@shway1

3 жыл бұрын

@@MMDelta9 obviously

@sidplymouth212

3 жыл бұрын

​@@shway1 I have only now found this KZread piece so please accept my sincere apologies for the "long shot" nature of this reply. I have, for a number of years, tried to find the answer to the question "What is socialism?". none of the avowed socialists i have asked cannot give an answer other than a recitation of the well understood failings of capitalism and of Free Market economics where those failings are well understood and documented by the disciples of both. Perhaps, Shway might like to enlighten me (and Nail Ferguson) by answering the actual question ~ If it is so good and easily understood a paragraph or two should suffice . . . . he answer will be particularly compelling if it includes concrete examples of where it has worked! My understanding is that whilst Capitalism / Free market economics leads occasionally to large swathes of a population suffering under socialism whole countries are laid to waste. Furthermore, recovery from the former is usually quite rapid using the same tools but socialism is terminal unless rejected. I look forward to your reply

Tell that to Finland, Norway, Sweden, etc. It works well.

@bravennewman-morris1567

2 жыл бұрын

They aren't socialist, they are mixed economies. Only a free market could create enough weather to support

This guy doesn't seem to understand how to apply the term socialism correctly. It is government control of the means of production, yes, but it is a fill in the blank. For example, government control of the means of producing financing of healthcare (single payer), government control of the means of producing healthcare (Nationalized healthcare), government control of the means of producing retirement services via annuities (Social security covers this as a nationalized annuity service that we are mandatory to participate in in the US), government control of the means of financing higher education (FAFSA student loans), government control of the means of producing basic education (mandatory attendance laws, restriction on private/charter schools and funding through taxation are what maintains this). The problem is that since they haven't entirely monopolized many of these areas, as SOME competition still exists, it is not seen as socialism (conflated with outright communism) and is sold as a social safety net... but to be frank, it is soft core socialism. Just because it comes from a social democrat or a christian democrat does not mean it isn't socialism. Even a "republican" can advocate socialism. There are so-called libertarians who do so as well. People like Niall are what keeps Americans from understanding how socialist we are, with our "departmentalism" as was used to describe the USSR by two economists who wrote the book about its economic state: The Turning Point: Revitalizing the Soviet Economy [Nikolai Shmelev, Vladimir Popov], which is what we copied from the USSR starting mostly in the 1930s during the great depression. We cannot continue to be drunk with patriotism and shout: America #1, when we live in a socialist country that is living off the wealth of those who can get around the regulatory giants or bribe them in their favor. That, and the wealth the country had created for the majority of its past, until now. Also interesting to note how democrats and some "thinkers" such as Noam Chomsky who say this country lacks democracy (another fetish term), but fail to describe where or why. It was lost when Congress gave up its legislative responsibility to all the departments, agencies, administrations, and offices, not to mention the restriction on the number of members of the house in proportion to the population. The older generations placed the cost of their socialist policies on the backs of our generation, and it is likely we will respond with even more of the same, but the difference will be that we cannot continue to hide or shift the costs away from us. Venezuela 2.0 incoming (Venezuela had nationalized oil industry to provide a national dividend which was robbed from, they had minimum wage, subsidized education, corporate subsidies and eventually price control (which caused much of the havoc due to shortages)). Then, as all socialist leaders do, Maduro printed money to pay for his ideas which inflated the Bolivar dollar to hell, and it was unstoppable because as president he called for Constituent Assembly to rewrite the 1999 constitution (and this allowed him to maintain power without further elections, as dictator). All we need here is a country of people desperate enough for a leader to fix things that he/she takes over but sells out the country instead.

Teaching doesn't work as much as fashion. And today's academy needs to either be defund, reimagined, or both. Any polymath will remind us that all education is self-education. When, however, the Washington Post goes out of its way to explain why the National Socialist (NAZI) party was not Socialist, there's a serious obstacle to self-education. Even if all Socialist regimes are not the real Marxism, Loony Liberal use of language to obfuscate the main point that, inevitably, Socialism almost always misleads people to believe on the better angels of those who want to control property and the rule of law ... totally.

Socialism is the umbrella of the public sector, every country has it. Politicians & military wages come from the public sector.

@uberboiz

2 жыл бұрын

Nope - politicians & military wages come from taxpayers.....

Clearly capitalism doesnt either. Almost like the same interests created both so they can profit whichever way the pendulum swings.

@kieranhimself3655

3 жыл бұрын

@Trigger Troll really?

@Emcfree2084

3 жыл бұрын

@Trigger Troll People owned property long before capitalism. If anything property rights are far less secure under decades of corporo socialist capitalism.

@Emcfree2084

3 жыл бұрын

@Trigger Troll They will likely disagree with you and say something trite like "everyone owns everything" or "people own what they need" blah blah blah They have their ideology like you do and like you they serve the same masters and blame everything on the other 50% of brainwashed individuals and not the puppet masters

@Emcfree2084

3 жыл бұрын

@Trigger Troll Well if it works for you now then its obviously a universal principle that applies to everyone right? I won't ask if any of that farm is on caveated loan from the same central banks who finance all communist and socialist states.

@Emcfree2084

3 жыл бұрын

@Trigger Troll Well that is certainly a reason to congratulate you, nice work. I still don't think your situation applies to many people though and still think our so called capitalist system is a fraud.

Telling, socialism doesn't work is as helpful as claiming capitalism works! There are no countries with socialism, as there are none with capitalism. All economies are mixed, some utilities state-owned, schools and Healthcare, most companies are private, even in Venezuela. Certainly in "socialist" 5 Nordics.

@PSchearer

3 жыл бұрын

There are no countries with socialism?!?! What do you call Venezuela, chopped liver (as Americans sometimes say)? Your comment is possible only if you think that only PURE socialism is socialist and only PURE capitalism is capitalist. But history and the daily headlines make clear that there are countries that are more socialist or less socialist than others and, likewise, there are countries that are more capitalist or less capitalist than others. And it is also clear that the prosperity and personal freedom of a nation is tightly bound to which side it tends toward, though there are many gradations inbetween. I don't want to read too much into your screen name, but for several decades the Scandinavian countries have been loudly denying being socialist, which, they say, was something they tried decades ago but rejected. Now they proclaim they are capitalist with a strong social safety net. But socialism isn't just Scandinavia. It's also the Gulag, the Ukrainian Famine, the Killing Fields. Those are PURE socialism.

@MMDelta9

3 жыл бұрын

Russia, Germany, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, sub-Sarah Africa, *China.* Mixed economies are not "socialist" just because they have state funded health care. The Nordic countries, for example, *have the most unregulated markets in the world.* More so than the US.

@snowflakemelter1172

2 жыл бұрын

Just a cheap trick to avoid any responsibility.

Socialism has failed, capitalisms is in the process of failing. A system that hinges on the exploitation of nature can't survive if there's a climate crisis looming on the horizon. Yet it seems like we can't come up with an alternative to this system, which is the issue of our time. The lack of alternatives is the defining conundrum our generation has to grapple with.

@dansmith9724

2 жыл бұрын

Capitalism may be starting to crumble but its because govts keep putting their noses in to fix or improve things. Capitalism is failing because its being mixed with too much socialism and an ever increasing govt and its beaurocracy.

@snowflakemelter1172

2 жыл бұрын

Humans have to exploit nature to survive. They don't have to destroy it though.

Ask the homeless people living in LA, SF, NY and the rust belt if democracy worked for them.

@James_36

2 жыл бұрын

homelessnes is not a sympton of democracy, it is a symptom of humanity

In a Capitalist society people eventually starve unless capitalism is tempered with a degree of socialism.

Turns out that they might be laughing the other side of their faces

@A.US.ter1

3 жыл бұрын

This is totally out of step with what the world is doing right now to deal with the corona fallout.

Its funny cos todays capitalistic system is pretty much socialism for the rich. Government and business are pretty much one in the States. Still everyone is afraid of "socialism " , without ever asking if the current system works best for the average Guy.

"Socialism doesn't work" is undeniably true, but it's an illustration of the power of the nostrum that it has to be contradicted time after time, despite the continual and self-evident failures of the theory.

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

Google. Nostrum: Noun. 1. a medicine prepared by an unqualified person, especially one that is not considered effective. 2. a scheme or remedy for bringing about some social or political reform or improvement. When you write: "... power of the nostrum...", do mean organised BS? And some masses of people believing that BS?

@petermach8635

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnmatrix7003 Socialism is an intellectual concept, who really can argue with the idea of fairness, equality and apple pie for all ..... but it's perfectly valid to want to achieve those laudable aims, only by other means. I chose to use "nostrum" deliberately, there are other words I could have used but "Socialism" has a fairy-dust aspect ...... and both the dictionary definitions describe it very well indeed. So call it BS if you want, but that's self-defeating, you're not winning the argument, you're just denigrating it and those that believe it ...... you can prove it wrong, in the past, the present and for the future, but it will keep recurring, because it's a powerful and seductive idea .... with the only antidote being a well functioning alternative .... and I say "antidote" not "cure" because the symptoms are likely to reappear erelong.

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

@@petermach8635 I thought your use of the word nostrum was a good choice. Agreed using the BS theme may not be helpful. But seems to me a lot of people pushing the Socialism wheelbarrow are ignorant and want everything free free free for me me me. Seems also a lot who are pushing the Socialism wheelbarrow are also chasing power absolute with no intention of sharing the fruits equally, and without much care about how the fruits come about.

@johnmatrix7003

4 жыл бұрын

KZread today. @@petermach8635 Did you see this? "Designate the CCP as a Criminal Organization: Elmer Yuen".

@fasteddie8262

4 жыл бұрын

John Matrix n

The black or white classifications are both wrong. A market economy with democracy and socialist policies such as publicly funded education and training, health care, pensions, affordable housing and decent jobs are important. Part of a government's job is to protect a nation and its people and to provide direction to the economy. Otherwise economies are dominated by oligarchs and a toxic form of capitalism will take away all the freedoms.

Can someone explain to me what is the problem with free education and how are people born in poor conditions experienced to achieve something in comparison to the ones who were born in rich families?

John Anderson got his degree at public expense. A classic example of pulling up the ladder after one has scaled it.

nor does capitalism

Unfortunately, Ferguson parades his ignorance of the subject here. Socialism involves the abolition of the state, not state control of the economy! Also, as socialists like the SPGB have consistently pointed out, socialism has never been tried. The fact that individuals such as AOC, or countries such as China and the former USSR, referred to themselves as socialist is quite irrelevant.

@Kintabl

4 жыл бұрын

Socialism has been tried and it's working. Where? In a small hunter-gatherers societies. But if you think you can have real socialism in modern global complex society you are a moron.

@stephenharper5761

4 жыл бұрын

In that case, Karl Marx was a ‘moron’. You’re right that a kind of ‘primitive communism’ existed in hunter gatherer societies. But from Marx’s historical materialist point of view, socialism as such *can only* happen on the basis of a globalised economy with an adequate surplus. This is why socialism has only been possible for the last 100 years or so.

@whichfinder

3 жыл бұрын

www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/what-socialism/

Assume history proves Capitalism might be more competitive than socialism in fast economical growth, but it does so at the accounted cost of human suffering: outsourced polluting industries away from wealthy people. It leaves a thorny problem for later generations, like a high house prices except in the polluted slum. Economic growth and fairness can be two opposing forces of a swing, now about time to give fairness a go.

@anotherbadseed

2 жыл бұрын

Ssshhhh ... domn't tell Niall Ferguson this problematical stuff.... ;)

When no one is giving a definition of socialism other than the opposite of conservatism then you are just spewing propaganda and propaganda is not an argument

@soapbxprod

4 жыл бұрын

n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. n. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved. n. Specifically, in Germany, legislation, supported by Prince Bismarck, intended to improve the condition of the working-man. Among the measures included were the insurance of workmen against accident, sickness, and old age, and the establishment of cooperative associations under state protection. OK, jackass?

@whichfinder

3 жыл бұрын

www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/what-socialism/

Americans with their usual paranoia about socialism and have over 100000 deaths to show for it. We see what education of the rich results in a clown like Trump as a president.

@tonyves

4 жыл бұрын

Whereas the Covid deaths in Socialist states are? Oh, about the same. Damn, the virus doesn't understand how it's supposed to concentrate its efforts on buggering up Trump. Silly virus, silly Charles van Dijk.

@Mortred99

3 жыл бұрын

@@tonyves What you exactly mean by "socialist states"? I live in social democracy country. Population 1.6% of USA Population density of 111/km2 compared to USA with 33.6/km2 Cases in USA - 3,413,995 (slightly above 1%) compared to 1,901 (0.34%) Deaths in USA 137,782(slightly above 4% of confirmed cases) compared to 28 (1,47%) That is leaving the fact that we are more than 3 times higher population density. So, how does that compare to your view?

You are absolutely correct. You've completely screwed over your children and grandchildren.

does capitalism work? is capitalism a failure?? of course it is: any first year economics student -- even in fergusons classes!! -- would tell you that that current economic structure isnt capitalist in the usa, even though it may have capitalist sectors. id love to debate ferguson: he defines his terms -- badly, ahistorically despite his pretensions to being historical -- then advances his views. socialism is a SOCIAL and MORAL view of humanity and its best hopes -- it does not and is not primarily an economic view. does he not get this? this isnt complicated. the commodity form is what is at issue: abstract labor and its debilitating consequences, etc..

@uberboiz

2 жыл бұрын

You think giving people the freedom to pursue their economic interests has no social or moral aspect to it?

Ferguson should really get his understand of socialism right before spouting nonsense. Socialism is NOT about state control of the means of production - that's called Communism. Socialism is concerned with the means of production being controlled by the producers, i.e. the employees. A not so subtle difference he doesn't seem to grasp, favouring thereby the fallacy of the centrality of the state in the socialist perspective of the world. It'd be hillarious if he didn't also state he's an educationalist. His statement that teaching 'doesn't work' can mean only that his worldview - the one he bases his teaching on - isn't dominant. So how about this, erm Professor Ferguson - the decreasing propensity of and subscription to convervatism, generationally, is directly proportional with the mounting evidence that conservatism, and its ideological off-shoots, don't work?

There is a middle way.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, get off your arses and get a job, and if you can't earn your living then get your brain in gear and create it!.

He's an interesting historian, but he needs to clarify his rather muddy definitions of socialism.

The list of happiest countries always includes scandinavian countries. Policies in those countries obviously work. Some conservatives try to argue that those countries aren’t really socialist. Fine, let’s just adopt their non socialist policies.

@stephenrohaim382

2 жыл бұрын

Thats because none of those countries are even remotely socialist, and only a complete ignormaus would think its possible to convert the US into scandinavia. It means you have no clue of the foundations and culture needed for a system like that to even work, and that said that very system is failing in Scandinavia as well. Its living on borrowed time.

@jakemoseley1811

2 жыл бұрын

@@stephenrohaim382 Stephen, if scandinavian countries are not socialist, then why is it logical to call Biden’s proposals socialist? Adding dental, hearing, vision coverage to Medicare is no different from the Nordic countries. Increasing the child tax credit and subsidy for child care does not make the US different from them. Increasing the tax rate on the rich is not different. You say scandinavian countries are not socialist, and Biden proposals do not differ from policies there, so you agree that Biden is not proposing socialist policies. Thank you.

@stephenrohaim382

2 жыл бұрын

@@jakemoseley1811 Im annoyed by Americans misusing the socialist term as well both Conservatives and Lefties seem to think any kind of welfare is socialism. It is not welfare existed before socialism and will exist after it. Biden is not pushing socialism he is pushing costs that are unsustainable and there are plenty of actual socialists in the democratic party they just tactically prefer the progressive label. The rich in America are already paying the majority of the taxes taxing them more will do nothing but stifle growth. The entire American system needs an overhaul as do all of the western countries we are running systems that we cannot afford in the long term. Full dental is not included in the Norwegian welfare system only for kids up to 16 or 18 I believe. The US is already spending money it does not have, it needs to start cutting not adding more expenses. Thats the problem with politicians today, they are literally buying votes with tax payer money and even loaned money. Its a recipe for societal collapse. The result of this in Oil rich Norway is that we spend literally twice every year to that of Finland a country with almost exactly the same population. Much of it is on net loss third world migration that still continues and only drains our coffers no benefits at all.

@jakemoseley1811

2 жыл бұрын

@@stephenrohaim382 Stephen Perhaps the most respected economic forecaster in the US is Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody Analytics. He believes the Biden proposals are sustainable. He projects that the proposed tax hikes plus increased economic growth resulting from the proposal will result in no increase in the national debt. The proposal, 3.5 trillion over 10 years, is only slightly more than one percent of expected gdp. Norway collects twice as much tax as the US as a percent of gdp. So clearly the US has ample ability to sustain a one percent of gdp increase. Especially since basically all economists agree the part spent on infrastructure will boost gdp by more than the cost.

@jakemoseley1811

2 жыл бұрын

@@stephenrohaim382 Stephen the overall tax rate in the US is pretty flat across income. State and local taxes are typically 8% or 9% and are highly regressive. The payroll tax of 15.3% applies only on a limited amount of income, 147,000 in 2022. The federal gas tax and other excise taxes are regressive. The idea that the rich in the US pay a substantially higher share of their income in tax is a myth tho one “everyone knows.” Bill Gates estimates he has paid ten billion in tax. That is not much more than five percent of what he has earned.

If you want young people to not call it socialism then tell the right wing to stop calling ANYTHING that works for the common good like health care for all, or affordable/free community college socialism because really it’s the right wing calling everything socialism. Yes, taxes are how we pay for this and it makes society better as the whole.

"Socialism works if you do it the right way!"

@danpearce4547

3 жыл бұрын

Which way is the right way?

@edmorrison5645

3 жыл бұрын

/s

@shaneashby5890

3 жыл бұрын

morningstar, you’re ignorance is suffocating.

@darrylschultz6479

2 жыл бұрын

@@shaneashby5890 So-it'd work better if you did it the WRONG way?🤘😆