I really like you sharing your install. it good inspiration how to do it. Just a few tips as I work as elektrical safety inspector in the netherlands. (rules in UK are bit different). 1) I like what you are doing with the DC breakers however because of the extreme high amount of short circuit current Lithium batteries can generate when shorting due to very low internal resistance it's very possible the Uimp rating of the breaker is to low and so it could just blow and weld together so power is not cut. I always recommend to install fuses since they have way higher breaking capacity. for Lithium batteries Class-T fuses are the best. Victron has a new version of the lynx distributor on the market where you can fit Class-T fuses, I replaced my old distributors with the class-T variant. You can use the breaker as double pole isolator switches but don't rely on them for handling shorts. 2) when operating these breakers with high amp loads you should have the live parts covered or use PPE when operating, it can certainly go wrong so maybe you find a way to install the breakers in an enclosure. Maybe they fit on Dinrail? 3) it might be advisable to make a shutdown procedure and have it on the wall for anyone to know what to do in an emergency. 4) i don't know if you have access to a good quality IR camera, but when you are finished it might be not a bad idea to do some thermographic inspection on the connections when under full load to make sure you don't see hotspots. Do enjoy this lovely set-up I just wanted to share some tips from my experience in practice.

I have been enjoying the “Warts and all” presentation approach of your videos. I think I learn more from the mistakes than from when things go together easily. Please continue to show the good, the bad, and the ugly! I have binge watched (!!) your playlists more than once, and I hope you create additional playlists for the solar panel install series and the wiring the system series. Between this channel and the off grid garage, I have all the solar infotainment I need . Thanks! Keep making fantastic videos.

Those MCCBs have a 24VDC shunt trip available for them too. With some circuitry and/or a microcontroller or similar you can use the trip to disconnect the batteries on what ever condition you like, say a smoke alarm in the equipment room sounds. A similar thing can be done for the PV input to the room to disconnect PV automatically when things go wrong. Add in a big red emergency stop button and you can knock the whole kit out in one fell swoop.

@fkwvdpol

27 күн бұрын

Great suggestion! Would make a great way to implement emergency shutoff for cases when things go horribly wrong; hardwired mushroom button on the inside+outside of the room, plus a trigger from one of the Cerbo's relay from node-red.

@alanblyde8502

26 күн бұрын

I have 300 amp Noark dc breaker in our system that’s my plan too, install an internal relay to emergency stop switch to shut off everything with one push of the button 🇦🇺🤙

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Wow that's amazing I didn't know that I think that's definitely a future project to consider I really like the idea of connecting it up to an emergency shut off button and also the smoke alarm

Yes, the real problem with most smaller isolator switches is that they have terrible I.R. (interrupt rating) specifications, which makes them a fire hazard. They generally cannot be operated under any load at all. And the cheap ones aren't spring-loaded which means that you get excessive carbon build-up inside and eventually that causes a fire. I don't know re: the breaker you got. What was the brand / manufacturer? The only commercial DC breaker that I have real confidence in would be "NOARK". And is it non-polarized? Main battery breakers have to be NON-polarized, 2-pole breakers with an interrupt rating of at least 10x the amp-hours of main battery you have. So e.g. 600Ah needs breakers with at least a 6kA interrupt rating. Once you add a third (or more) battery to your bank, you also need to consider adding a T-Class fuse if you don't already have one (200kA+ I.R. specification). Good luck! System looks great! Glad you removed those manual disconnects (but not sure about the breaker you got). -Matt

@nunosantos79

27 күн бұрын

I'm also not sure if this circuit breaker is non-polarized. The manual does not mention and still advises "top-in and bottom-out wiring". There are currently two models: NQCM1 (Battery) and NQCM1Z (Photovoltaic).

You could cut some plexiglass to make terminal covers. I like to be able to see the connections. You are quite handy, Beautiful setup you have there👍👍

@Gridbusters-qx4om

24 күн бұрын

Great idea!

Nice video as always. I have only few remarks or suggestions or observations : 1. I would suggest - in case there are no flying things above your Victron Inverter to remove top cover on it. It is held by 4 small screws and it will improve lifetime of your inverter during summer time. During winter you can put it back it isn't big deal at that time of the year. This cover restricts airflow a lot and removal of it will improve to increase life time of your Victron Inverter. 2. I did has similar problem as you mentioned and when i was doing 600Ah battery pack i wanted to have some good isolator but if you check it officially there is almost none available for 500-1000 Amps and 50-70V. So i went with similar solution but this one was not isolator as such but it is actually 3x 160Amp fuse isolator... what it does it allows to remove 3 (and you can use AC or DC high current fuses ) fuses same time by pulling plastic handle ..i know it isn't so nice solution but as i said there isn't one as i know that has good price.

looks like a first rate choice there,well done :) :) Edit big up to you giving praise to the "marxman" because you like it :)

A person like you really should have a 3D printer. You'll be astonished at how many 3D printer projects come out of the woodwork once you have a 3D printer. I'd avoid cheap 3D printers when first starting out.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Oh yes definitely I think a 3D printer would be fantastic it just needs to pass the HAF test!!! husband acceptance Factor

3D Printing Project would great skill to learn, I am sure u would enjoy since u have a potential project. I plan on learning too but I dont have a project to apply it to yet which would motivate me to learn.

Great video Sarah from my limited research it seems the true marine brands of rotary switch are up to scratch but as they cost the same as the ones you are now using good choice .

It's good to see how your project is progressing. You'd want to make sure that the DC battery breaker is rated to function with the current flowing in both directions. For solar systems, current from the battery will flow in one direction when charging and another direction when discharging. This is a critical detail that needs to be taken into account when selecting a battery breaker.

@simon359

27 күн бұрын

So if your batteries allow 100 A, do you get a breaker at 100 A?

@hendersonsobers396

27 күн бұрын

​@@simon359In that case, you'll apply the 80% rule. Take the 100A and divide by 0.8 which gives you 125A, so you'll need a breaker rated for 125A. Also keep in mind that breakers have something called a trip curve. The trip curve will tell you how much above 125A at a given time, when the breaker will actually trip. I use breakers as a seconday over current protection and a T class fuse for primary. You don't have to do that bht that method gives me peace of mind. T class fuses will react much more quickly than a breaker. Oh, and please make sure the cables being used to connect the batteries are sized appropriately.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Great advice thanks, I'm mainly using these breakers as isolator switches to be honest

Based on some of the previous comments, a possible upgrade could be to keep your new isolators, but replace the lynx power in with the new lynx class t power in (m10). You would need to widen the m8 holes in the lynx shunt to connect to the new power in. You could then add two 200 amp class-T fuses in the new power in. This would protect the system from a discharge rate above 0.6C from each battery. Your 70mm2 cable is rated at about 192 amps, so it should survive.

You can always turn off the battery on the battery BMS, then turn off the switch.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

You're absolutely correct however one of my batteries recently had a fault and the on off button Would not work!!! This is when I realised that I needed to upgrade the isolator switches

Check out Victron recommendation not to disconnect the negative cable, especially in systems with communication cables

@Gridbusters-qx4om

27 күн бұрын

The only time I'll be probably turning these off is if I'm physically removing a battery in that case I would be removing the negative and positive cable from the battery so that's why I wanted a switch which would switch both negative and positive

Don't want to nit pick only that on a battery terminal are Positive and Negative (DC) rather than Live Neutral, (AC), also the BMS turns off the Negative Terminal so having just a Positive isolator would be sufficient with the battery turned off. a full 2 pole isolator is a great idea none the less belt and braces. Loving your content and following along with your journey.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Thanks for watching and thanks for your advice

Hi Sarah, Nice switches, I know what you mean about the 48v-rated switches/breakers being out of spec, I shall be looking into these myself, good find 😀 That's a neat job you did there. As for the covers, you could make one out of wood that will also cover the access hole, which would neaten up that area, just held in place with a couple of screws for easy access if required.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Yes I think I might go for some sort of wooden cover

Good video Sarah, I was hoping you would of opened up one of those switches to see inside, because that is what makes these switches interesting to see the specifically designed DC cut/off approach. Inside there should be a series of metal plates, which allows the DC current to dissipate when under load, which the other cut off switches cannot do. As for a cover I would go with a angled plastic extrusion and Velcro it onto the switch body for easy access. Just trim and cut to suit for cable entry.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Great idea! I'll have to see if they can be taken apart or if they are sealed if they can be taken apart I think I will definitely do a tear down video

@Leksi80

25 күн бұрын

@@Gridbusters-qx4om I would love to see that tear down. Thinking of getting a 400A one for my 80kWh battery bank next year when I will expand my setup. Even if you have to order one extra as a sacrifice, the tear down and the feedback from the community could be worth the peace of mind knowing that the insides of the breaker can handle the rated loads in the long run and will not start to heat up when loaded heavily. Like this one from the same manufacturer(thou a smaller and different one): kzread.info/dash/bejne/h3eCk9N-Y7PUmLA.html

For ring terminals, Klauke is a very good brand, looks like the bell shaped ones are from them. The only thing is, they do not recommend to use hexagon shaped crimps for flexible cable.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

I have tested the connecting cable crimps and put a huge amount of force on a test piece of cable with the vice, I was able to put my full body weight on it without the cable moving.

Its amazing the amount of stuff you find out that isnt quite right after the installation, and that you need to or ought to change !! How are you going to test them though ??

Those MCB's should have a rubber separator that goes between positive and negative terminals, at least mine came with separators for the up and down side, and it looks like yours have the same groove to slide it in.

Side note: Instead of the EEL boxes, check out the Keshee ones. Almost completely finished with the BMS and goodies already installed. I have two of them and are the ones chosen after looking over what's available. Even chose them over building my own out of wood and is cheaper. About $560 shipped to the US so probably cheaper to France. One thing I REALLY would like is a place to mount the wheels with the option of vertical or horizontal placement (or both.)

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Yeah they do look really good however I want to keep the same box and BMS for future batteries also the eel batteries are shipped from a warehouse in Europe which means I don't have to pay import tax so they end up costing a lot less

I have a 25V battery system limited to 800 watts, about 33A. I use 50A DIN rail MCB, double pole. If a short circuit occurs, the LiFePo can deliver over 100A. But I have already replaced MCB after switching off. If I want to isolate then I first turn off the inverter on the 230V AC side, that's only 3.5 amps at 800W. For solar installations over 800W you need an electrician in Germany and it gets very bureaucratic. Up to 800W, you only need to report that the solar system has been put into operation and complies with the standards.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

In Germany do you still need to report the system even if it's not connected to the grid??

There are plastic terminal covers for siemens, schneider molded case circuit breakers we are using already. There may be the one for yours also.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

All right okay I'll have to have a look for those

Well hello from Egypt again. Maybe some isolation tape right across the holes of the terminals. You will want to have easy access to these terminals. So all you will have to do is peal off the tape.

You batteries answer the question which side is live = right. Another thought, you will need to be careful when paralleling the 2 or 3 batteries first time so you don't get massive currents exchanged between batteries. Great channel - subbed. You may be able to get design files for the 3d printing from thingy-verse or similar.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Great point! However when I look at the system it does get a bit confusing... the chart controllers have one set of DC cables which is connected to the bus bar red on the left black on the right and the DC solar cables red on the right black on the left???

Sarah (sp?), instead of many openings into your battery on-off switches, you might consider a single box that covers all the switches and cable entry/exits. Vastly simplifies your effort and facilitates shorter build times. Re 3D printing: I have 8 printers in my stable of various sizes and capabilities (including two that I haven't even started building yet :) ). One can get very creative with your resultant product in not necessarily be tied to a wooden box look. And, of course, with "wood" filament, you can also make a box! :) You can also add the in/out plenum's for the cabling if you choose to. BEWARE: 3D printing is EXTREMELY addictive! That's because it is a ton-o-fun. :) With the new printers, the learning curve is much shorter than it used to be. There is great depth if one chooses to dive into it but you don't have to. There are many varieties of printers. Which to choose as your first? I recommend the Sunlu S8 as your first. About $200US when on sale (and it's always on sale :) or the S8 Pro for a few dollars more. If you get the basic S8, your very first improvements are A) Winsinn all-metal extruder (about $20), and B) one meter kit of the blue tube that comes with fitting upgrades, about $30. Those two items are necessary to make the printer last more than a few months and you will be buying them later anyway. Even if you decide on a $3500 printer later, the S8 will allow you to learn the basics and you may decided you don't even like 3D printing. Oh, the S8 has a 300mmx300mmx300mm build volume and you going to need as least that much just for the solar project stuff. It's a good idea to get a Raspberry Pi (minimum V3) to help make your printer management significantly easier, and will be used regardless of which printer you wind up with. For design software, if you're a math-head/engineering type, (free) OpenSCAD is very handy. For most of your model design work, there are several good choices of software, all free. There are some paid ones as well but they don't give you the flexibility of the free ones. HTH, and let us know what you decide.

@DavidMerchant-k4q

27 күн бұрын

I forgot to mention that it will be beneficial if you learn some basics about your filament choices. Some of them don't last long (PLA), some can be electrically conductive (gasp), some are not strong enough for this project, and so on and so on. Some are even food safe! :) And yes, with care you can even print in chocolate. Some filaments require environmental controls (for your health and safety), some are $10/kilo, some are $30,000/kilo and more. For this project, look into carbon-fiber nylon $50/kilo, (not the electrically conductive versions, of course.) Or maybe PCTG (if you can find it) at $25/kilo.

I have such a braker with 630A rating. They also have a electromagnetic coil to trip it from my BMS

I suppose there is some sort of terminal covers for such type of breaker (i.e. plastic cover to seal terminals away of unauthorized access)

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Well one of the photos the manufacturer shows is using them in a closed metal enclosure

@mosiyukvasil

26 күн бұрын

@@Gridbusters-qx4om imo, for home/diy scenarios, 3d printed covers would be the best option. Just buy some entry level prusa, anker, bambulab, etc. and play with printing using petg or abs+ filaments

Hello, Be careful with these isolators, they are directional (there is an arrow). I have connected the battery on the top and the hybrid inverter on the bottom, as it is they main risk (unlimited current from the battery), protection from current flowing the other way is less important as it will be limited by the electronic components. If you have separate charger/inverter devices, you should use 2 isolators, one for each direction of current (and connected together on the battery terminals). It has to do with the way there are dealing with arcs.

@SiBex_ovh

26 күн бұрын

I say more, this is know as version1, the DiHool selling a version2. Proper DC MCCB are from NoARK/ABB/SunTree etc. and I like in them they have a shunt release 24vdc & auxiliary contacts. Shunt works as EPO port - one red button for fireman, Aux for monitoring and notification.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

I don't see any arrow my breakers they seem to be working fine in both directions

@SiBex_ovh

26 күн бұрын

@@Gridbusters-qx4om bcs they are many of "china vendors" of this mccb, some of them use +-, other arrows, some none of info. Almost all of them not write anythink about polatization in description.

With respect, you need to understand the dead short breaking capability rating in kA. I think those are 20kA, so a reasonable choice. I would not trust a cheap Chinese BMS, or any BMS for that matter, to break the short CCT current from a beafy lithium battery. So, IMHO, what you are doing in replacing the crappy switches is the correct approach, but for more than just voltage rating, you are protecting against losing everything in a fire and then finding out that your insurance won't cover your loss because of a DIY mistake. They probably won't anyway because I don't think they are UL listed, but the risk is greatly reduced.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Well I'm going to do a tear down on one of these switches on the channel so we can all have a look what's inside and see if they are any good

@tullgutten

Күн бұрын

Actually MOSFETs and other transistors that BMS uses usually can withstand 700A each and most uses no less than 4 of them in parallel. And most of the time they have a much higher life expectancy than mechanical switches. BUT if the control circuit are a little too slow, needs proper pull down resistors then they burn, but thet only happens a very high amps right at the limit. A mechanical switch might have 1 to 100 cycles at full load before failure or they are rated at. Transistors ones are rated for 10000 switches or more at full load.

@livingron9983

Күн бұрын

@@tullgutten What will a 6,000 amp short do?

those breakers might get hot and even degrade from the inside .. i use one for only 50 amps max at 52+ volts ... but from the first day i am thinking to change em for bigger at least 3 or 4 times bigger even if i wont break the circuit quiet often. if there is somewhere a voltage drop due to failure those beautifull blue boxes might get hurt and it will be too bad

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Just over 100 amps for several hours and their cold to the touch

This is a great option, except… If you have a battery array in a rack cabinet, and each battery can provide 100Amps, there is a total of 600Amps. Do you know of any breakers like these that can switch up to or over 600 Amps? thank you

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

No sorry , personally I preferred have a breaker for each battery, best thing to do is contact the manufacturer I'm sure they could find one for you

Fyi - the link to the breaker does not work

Link to knipex cutters ?

Your said "it's only DC" when taking about being able to touch the terminals on the breakers Well you do know that DC is more of a killer than AC don't you ?

@simontillson482

27 күн бұрын

Not at 48V it’s not!

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Absolutely but I'm still careful

How do you know what size breaker to get for your system? 🖖

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Will the battery has a 200 amp fuse in it so that's why I went with a 200 amp breaker

i have used these DC breakers and they are rubbish.If you looked inside you would cry.The ones i had the switch froze one day and never worked again.I have now got the round ones you showed and switch the live first then the negative to switch off.When turning on negative first then live.I used a sharpie pen to color the knob black

@PhilippeCJR

2 күн бұрын

Nanque or Dihool or? I was looking to buy one 2pole 300A for my lifepo4.

Do you precharge your( or do you battery have a precharge resistor) inverter so there is not a huge inrush into the capacitors? It is my understanding that an inrush is not good.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

27 күн бұрын

That's not necessary because the the inverter is running on mains power and all the capacitors are already charged

hi can you share a link to your cable cutters

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

I don't have any link for the cable cutters afraid just Google it

It is just 20usd here in philippines

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

I can imagine it's much cheaper in the Philippines being so much closer to China

Just put some acrylic on studs over it.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Yes that would be a great quick solution actually Great idea

You could also hook all your batteries into a chunky victron or other busbar and then run a single cable from that to the breaker and then to the victron busbar. Your batteries already have breakers, your using this breaker as a switch I dont think the current you could pull out of those existing batteries would exceed the breaker but do the calculations before you take my word.

No safety glasses when using a saw??

@Gridbusters-qx4om

27 күн бұрын

No I guess I like living life on the Edge

Knipex is pronounced nipex. 👍

@Poebbelmann

26 күн бұрын

No, you should really pronounce the "K" like in kilo.

@Gridbusters-qx4om

26 күн бұрын

Who knows but I guess everybody knows what I'm talking about