you could manifest from other zones too, theres an artifact that does it from your hand called scroll of fate

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Completely missed that card while searching through Scryfall!

@sy-py

6 ай бұрын

Jeskai Infiltrator manifests from exile!

Important reminder: Yedora Grave Gardener only affects the backside, due to layers. Which means that any creatures returned to the battlefield as a forest by their ability can be flipped face up if they have morph or disguise.

@NStripleseven

6 ай бұрын

hold on I have a commander deck to build

@christianbarrett3040

5 ай бұрын

Doesn't it say that it has no other abilities? So how do layers bypass this?

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

​@@christianbarrett3040it works the same way as Morph creatures. Morph creatures are 2/2s with no abilities. The "Forest" part only affects the side currently visible to the player. To turn a morph card face up, you need to show what the morph cost would be IF the card was turned face up. Humility effects prevent morphs from being turned face up because when you try to show the cost it would have it if WAS turned face up. It wouldn't have one.

It should be noted that special actions do in fact still follow priority rules. There's an order of operations for when cards can turn face up, the game has to have a system of either player turning their card face up first especially when there are abilities attached to that. It determines which abilities go on the stack first

@WarrenPostma

5 ай бұрын

I don't understand how both (a) the order things go on the stack matters, but (b) there are actions that are not on the stack, also. Magics rules are broken if you ask me.

@therealax6

5 ай бұрын

@@WarrenPostma There are two things you do in every game that don't go on the stack, but can only be done when you have priority: playing a land and tapping a land for mana. The rules for other special actions are the same. (Some have restrictions: for instance, you can't play a land at any time; you can only do it at "sorcery speed". But the basic rules are the same.) Priority basically means that you can take an action. You cannot do anything when you don't have priority, unless an effect explicitly calls for you to do something (like making a choice or paying a cost).

Great vid loved the info at the end!

The new doctor who masters of evil precon also has a similar mechanic where cards get turned face down and become a 2/2 cybermen

@theoutcastleaf3410

6 ай бұрын

Missy, putting creatures that enter the graveyard (timings exclude tokens) back onto the battlefield face down as 2/2 cybermen under your control. Been thinking of a morph deck to make with her and now adding disguise with that seems like a great time!

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I did consider including the Cybermen in this video, but cut it due to the mechanic being 100% exclusive to Dr Who, whereas Morph and Manifest have been printed into the main standard sets. Key takeaways is: if you have a Cyberman, that has a Disguise or Morph ability on the other face, you can turn it face up with that cost 😃

bro im screaming, because i have cried for a long time wishing morph came back because my morph deck or (yugioh deck) has morph, manifest and fortell. Im screaming because this mechanic is one of those low on the list for a revisit. Im just super happy they came back with it so i have more ammo to add to my kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know someone else mentioned it, but Manifest was never restricted to just the top of player's libraries. That was just the most common place since it's a hidden zone that often has abundant resources to pull from, making it easier to keep the surprise aspect and making it unlikely to fail. Ghastly Conscription and Jeskai Infiltrator are from the set Manifest was introduced, and they manifest from the graveyard and from exile respectively (They have you shuffle the cards you manifest to add the surprise element back in). Later on we got Scroll of Fate that can Manifest a card from your hand.

Great summary!

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Thank you 😊

Was it really necessary to bring back morph and manifest but slightly changed, just to confuse people with mechanics that were and still are very confusing? This set seems… not really thought out

@theoutcastleaf3410

6 ай бұрын

It feels like what they did with discover and cascade in the last set. re-do the mechanic but give it less restrictions so there's more design space (can cloak from multiple zones). Only issue I see is the names being "too" tied to the setting

@acciaio

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I didn’t really like discover as well, but at least it was a simple mechanic. Morph and manifest are some of the more confusing ones. I feel the name thing too. But “collect evidence” is the worst from that perspective: it has nothing to do with collecting evidence, is too tied with the investigation theme and it’s an action that has existed since the beginning. I accept shorthands for actions, like “mill”, but this is just dumb

@sergiofagostinho

6 ай бұрын

I think Maro mentioned that in retrospect, 3 mana for a 2/2 was not great, and if they could go back they would make morph cost 2 generic. In a way, the ward 2 makes paying 3 mana more interesting for a 2/2 creature.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

100% it was. MaRo makes some excellent points on the debut stream that make me really confident in the direction the game is heading. My favourite has to be - "We don't like the future to be the victim of the past."

@hanschristopherson8056

6 ай бұрын

It seems often wotc goes for flavor over simplicity

Love the Ape Escape background music 😁

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

My secret sauce 😋

A few questions. Since Nightdrinker Moroii says "When Nightdrinker Moroii enters the battlefield, you lose 3 life." that only applies to it being cast and not if it is disguised and turned face-up, correct? With Branch of Vitu-Ghazi, if it is blocked or being blocked as a disguised creature, and is then turned face-up, is it taken out of combat?

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Correct for both 🙂

Now Im wondering if I can use these in a casualty deck that uses graveyard recursion for big plays

I really want that Eaten by Pirannhas card now.

There is an exception to the 5 mana rule. Zombie cutthroat. Though he does cost 5 life.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Good find!

@xipher5896

6 ай бұрын

and faerie snoop

@XenithShadow

5 ай бұрын

That rule only applied for this set and maybe khans block. There is 20+ cards that turn face up for less than 5 mana that kill a 2/2 in combat without dying. Mischievous Quanar, master of veils, nameless one, primal whispherer, putrid raptor, serpentine basalisk, shaper parasite, snarling undorak, thrashing mudspawn, vesuvan shapeshifter, weathered bodyguards, whip-spine drake, woodcloaker, bane of living, battering craghorn, daru lancer, defender of the order, exalted angel, gathan raiders, grinning demon, hystrondon, ironfist crusher, liege of the axe, maelstrom djinn. 2 flips from discarding the rest flip for either 4,3 or 2 mana.

In addition: Morph is a static ability and not an activated ability. Had to tear apart a fun deck idea when I found out

About Etrata's ability, would it work on a saga with a creature on the back like "Okiba Reckoner Raid" as its upwards backside is a creature or "Sheoldred" with its downward frontside being a creature? How would it work with a 2 sided creatures? For example: "Doric, Nature's Warden." Does it work with werewolves? Both the day and night cycle and the few activated ability flips. A separate question, what counts as turning 'face up' for "Aphetto Runecaster"? If I blink something face down, number 1, does it comeback face up? Number 2, does that count as turning 'face up'?

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Ok, so the official rules for Cloak and Disguise aren't how yet, but because their mechanics are near identical to morph and manifest, we can look to the CR rules to help here. So, Transform cards can be Cloaked or Manifested. They will be treated as whatever the ability's characteristics give them (2/2 with no name, subtype and ward 2/no abilities). The front face of a transform card is what is used to determine the mana value you need to turn the creature face up, as well as determining if it is a creature. (Manifest and Cloak only allow you to turn over creature cards). New Etrata's ability will allow you to get around that restriction. The card gets exiled, so you'll only ever be casting the front face of the transform card from her ability. 712.15. If an effect allows a player to cast a double-faced card as a face-down creature spell, or if a double-faced card enters the battlefield face down, it will have the characteristics given to it by the rule or effect that caused it to be face down. That card remains hidden, using a face-down substitute card (see rule 713) and/or opaque sleeves. See rule 708, “Face-Down Spells and Permanents.” 712.15a While face down, a transforming double-faced permanent can’t transform or convert. If it’s turned face up, it will have its front face up. For Aphetto Runecaster, you specifically need to turn the card face up with an ability like Morph, Manifest, Cloak or Disguise. If you blink a Morph, Manifest, Cloak or Disguise card, if it is a permanent, it will return face up. If it is an instant or sorcery, it will remain in exile or wherever they were sent for the blink effect.

@rabidcabbage7230

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard thanks!

Today I learned that morph creatures dont have a name. The Kadeena precon comes with Echoing Truth, which returns target nonland permanent and all with the same name into their owners hands. I thought it was included so that you could save your board from a wipe and have used it to do exactly that, but since morph doesnt have a name, I guess I was cheating?

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I'm afraid you were cheating, morph/manifest/disguise creatures have no name 😅 Echoing truth is in that deck as a way to deal with mass tokens, which do actually have names.

Are there any mechanics or cards that reference “morph” specifically? Or is it all “face down creatures”? I really don’t want to see another situation like Surviel, where cards that are functionally identical only triggers or not certain effects based on how is it named.

@davidhower7095

6 ай бұрын

There’s four cards that mention “morph abilities”, Quarsi Deceiver mentions “turning a manifested creature face up” and “paying a morph cost”, and Exiled Doomsayer causes “Morph costs” to cost {2} more. If I had to guess, though, they’ll make Disguise a “morph ability” like how Megamorph counts for those abilities. Quarsi Deceiver likely won’t be able to flip up cloaked permanents, but since it can be used for other things, it’s probably not a huge loss.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

To follow on from David, older cards that only interacted with Morph may be errata'd in the future. Like how they went back and added Surveil to a bunch of cards.

@akirachisaka9997

6 ай бұрын

@@davidhower7095 Yeah, honestly Disguise isn't even that weird anymore, considering how weird Megamorph was. Like, a +1/+1 counter and suddenly it's a new keyworded mechanic...? At least Disguise make sense gameplay wise, making you Morph less of a turn 3 do nothing dies to Dead Weight card. Well, it still dies to Dead Weight, but at least opponent also needs to pay 3 lol

@akirachisaka9997

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard Yeah, I definitely prefer if they just call them all "Morph abilities"

Buy your Mystic Forge's now.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I literally cut out a section about Mystic Forge 😂 but yes! That works with Disguise and casting them off the top of your deck.

@davidhower7095

6 ай бұрын

I’d bet a lot of money on Mystic Forge being in the Disguise precon

@phoenixgaming454

5 ай бұрын

Because the disguised cards are technically colorless?

Super-mega-morph

Disguise is just morph but better. No need to change my mind.

wonder if you use a vishuvian shap shifter to copy a creature with the disguise key word if shape shifter gets thay also ?

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Vesuvan Shapeshifter and any other clone effect, can only copy the "publicly facing information", it won't copy anything on the facedown side of a card.

@joefuller3886

5 ай бұрын

i ment like, if i cloak a creature with a morph cost can i pay the morph cost instead of the cloak ?

What happend if you flick a non-creature card cloaked ? Does it cast the spell for free ? For example, I cloak breech the multiverse with Etrata or Vannifar and flick it with Unyielding Gatekeeper : what happend ? Thanks !

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

Permanents will enter the battlefield. Instants and Sorcerys will stay in exile 🙂

1:18. disguise is an alternate casing cost, so i think the mana value of a card with desguise is whats printed. is that right? but to cast the disguise its 3 generic which is odd anyway.

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

Nope. While on the stack, Morph/Disguised creatures have a CMV of 0. 702.37a Morph is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card it’s on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down. “Morph [cost]” means “You may cast this card as a 2/2 face-down creature with no text, no name, no subtypes, and no mana cost by paying {3} rather than paying its mana cost.”

@cannon2004

5 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard so void winnower cares about the cmc of the spell while it's on the stack? So a card with an even printed cmc can be cast if the spells cmc on the stack is not even? It seems like it should only care about the cmc of the card. Void winnower also doesn't count decreases or increases in cost.

@cannon2004

5 ай бұрын

with the way layers work^

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

Void Winnower looks at the Mana Vaule of the spell you want to cast, not how much mana you're paying for it. For example if you had an enchantment that said "Creature Spells cost (1) less to cast", you could still cast Llanowar Visionary even though you would be paying 2 mana for the spell. It's mana value is 3. The other rule to take into account is CR601 - Casting Spells. There are steps we have to take to cast a spell, the very first thing we do, before any mana is even tapped, we put it on the stack. There are a bunch of in between steps that you can look up, but the last step is 601.2e "The game checks to see if the proposed spell can legally be cast. If the proposed spell is illegal, the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 728, “Handling Illegal Actions”)." So for this example, the disguise card would go on the stack, we pay costs, name targets, and then at the end the game goes "That spells CMV is 0, VoidWinnower stops that.". The final place we can check is simply the rulings on Void Winnowers page: - The mana value of a face-down creature spell or a face-down creature is 0. Void Winnower will stop face-down creature spells from being cast and face-down creatures from blocking.

@cannon2004

5 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard OK I see. To the spell we want to cast is "disguse" and the attributes of that object is 0 cmc. Got it. Very interesting way of design.

Can you play your land for turn and flip a disguised/morphed/manifested land?

@attackoncardboard

Ай бұрын

There are only two lands with morph/disguise. So if it was one of those two, yes you could. Unmorphing a land is does not count towards your land drop for the turn. Remember, to turn up a facedown morph/disguise card, you have to first reveal the card and show it's morph/disguise cost and then pay that cost. If you can, it returns to being face down. Similarly manifested or cloaked cards can only be turned face up if they're creatures and paying their mana cost.

@SubliminalTrauma

Ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard Copy! In this specific scenario let’s say I have Kaust, Eyes of the Glade, a previous card effect had me manifest the top card of my library during the last turn. I attack with the manifest creature which is really a basic land face down. Could I tap Kaust after blockers are declared to then save my land by putting it to play, even if I already played a land for turn?

@attackoncardboard

Ай бұрын

@@SubliminalTrauma Yes you can. Kaust's ability bypasses the Morph/Disguise/Manifest 'turn face up' rules. Your land drop for the turn will only ever get used up by you actively playing a land from one zone (Hand, Exile, Top of library, Graveyard) to the battlefield. Cards that suddenly become lands or effects that cause you to search for lands from your library and put them into play do not count towards your land drop for the turn. For example. On turn 4 I cast Cultivate (I search and put a basic Forest into play tapped and I put one into my hand), I can then still play my land drop for the turn. :)

@SubliminalTrauma

Ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard thank you! 🙏🏻

Can someone please explain the morph rule of 5 to me? I'm really having a tough time understanding.

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

So turns out during the discussion with MaRo he forgot to mention this rule only applies from the Khan's set forward. The rule of 5 means basically means that if the front face side of a morph card could destroy a 2/2 in combat and survive, it will have a morph cost of 5 or more mana. Eg Ainok Tracker A 3/3 with first strike and a morph cost of 4R

How does this work with Cyber Conversion?

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

Exactly how you think it would. If a Morph or Disguised card gets converted, you can turn them face up by paying the Morph or Disguise cost! 😃

confused can u use cloak on a 8nstant or sorcery ( obviusly timeing restrictions aply to sorceeies )

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

The "Cloak" mechanic allows you to put a card facedown on the battlefield as a 2/2 with ward 2. This can be any card, including Instants, Sorceries and Lands. The "Cloak" mechanic specifically says, under CR 701.56b "... To do this, show all players that the card representing that permanent is a *creature card* and what that card’s mana cost is, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. ... (If the card representing that permanent isn’t a creature card or it doesn’t have a mana cost, it can’t be turned face up this way.) ". So, if a Cloaked card is an instant/sorcery, no, you cannot turn it face up. If you use a blink effect on the facedown instant/sorcery, when it goes to exile and gets turned faceup, it will remain there. You will not be able to cast it.

@joefuller3886

5 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard ok got it but what paying a morph vost of a cloaked creature for instance will bender ?

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

Yup, you can do that. Morph doesn't care *how* the card got turned faced down, only that it is :)

@joefuller3886

5 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard nice ty for you're help

Honestly they could have done something similar to what they did with trample and just called it 'secret morph' or something and it just adds Ward when face down or like add a ward counter when played face down

@amaya6091

5 ай бұрын

Also there is at least 1 card (something something scroll I don't recall the name besides scroll) that manifests a card from your hand (I think it's random tho I could be wrong about that tho)

@amaya6091

5 ай бұрын

Also there is at least 1 card (something something scroll I don't recall the name besides scroll) that manifests a card from your hand (I think it's random tho I could be wrong about that tho)

I am personally really disappointed that the morph and disguise backside don't have the same stats. Half the point of morph/disguise is to keep your opponent guessing, and now, half the Cardpool of potential options is immediately eliminated since it has either ward 2, or it does not. I do think that a different artwork and keyword name should be fine flavorwise.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I highly recommend watching the debut stream. MaRo goes over exactly why they don't have the same stats as Morph and they mentioned they tested a bunch of different options.

just thinking about playing limited when most creatures have "ward 2" is causing me pain

Yooo its Doug Walker

>Be me >Pursuing some cloaked duded through the bustling streets >Finally catch up >Grab him by the shoulder and turn him around, revealing his face >It's not a dude >It's a tree >mfw

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

For any weebs in chat, all I can think of is Substitution Jutsu 😂

The 5 mana rule doesn't work for morphs. Cards like Exalted Angel and Grinning Demon can be turned face up for less than 5 mana and really kill a Grizzly Bears. Maybe this applies to the new Disguise cards, but not to old Morph cards.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

About 15 of the 153 Morph cards do not abide by this rule from what I can see. And they're practically all the Onslaught Morphs, the first ones printed.

So Disguise: Updated Morph with Ward 2? So Cloak: Updated Manifest with Ward 2?

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Mostly correct. The Cloak mechanic is a more flexible version of Manifest. Similar to what Discover did to Cascade. It opens up more design space.

Time to make my kadena deck more deceptive

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I'll definitely be looking to go back and redo/update my Kadena video

Disguise AKA better morph.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I think MaRo said it best on the stream - "We don't like the future to be the victim of the past.". They're clearly not afraid to go back and rework "old" mechanics to bring them up to today's standards, and that's fantastic news to hear.

0 is even. It's not "considered even in Magic", it is even in mathematics.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I'm a pretty alright Magic player, not a Mathematician 🤣

@nijimazero

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard Well, I'm a pretty alright Magic player with a degree in mathematics and I'm here to help!

What about the card break open

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

That would work with Cloaked/Disguised cards. But be careful, some of these cards have a triggered ability when they turn face up.

@skaven969

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard break open is so niche and ineffectual, but I’m thinking if you target an opponent’s card you know can not be transformed because it is an instant or sorcery, would that technically turn break open into a kill card? (I know ward adds 2 so you would spend 2 for break open and it would cost a total of 4 mana)

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

The rules cover this situation, Break Open wouldn't do anything to a Cloaked Instant/Sorcery besides simply revealing what it is: 701.34f If a manifested permanent that’s represented by an instant or sorcery card would turn face up, its controller reveals it and leaves it face down. Abilities that trigger whenever a permanent is turned face up won’t trigger.

@skaven969

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard damn Since I don’t have anything nice to say about this game after learning this, I won’t say anything at all other than thank you for the video.

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

What's the issue with the ruling? An Instant or Sorcery cannot exist on the battlefield, *at all*. The ruling is consistent with other effects like this.

This is megamorph all over again. Take an existing card, minor tweak, presto new keyword

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Which is a good thing! Taking older mechanics that have fallen off due to power creep and buffing them is great to see 😃

@cptcolgenltmajor9246

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard it’s alright. Having ward is nice and seeing morph is cool in standard since it’s not often seen.

It ain't just Magic that “considers” zero to be even …

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Apologies. I'm just a pretty ok Magic player, not a Mathematician.

@jyrinx

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard Heh np, yeah, being even just means you can divide it evenly by 2, and 0/2 = 0 so it passes the test.

Morph and manifest has always been a shitty mechanic, and now we have two more that do exactly the same. If the target was to confuse the game even more, way to go Wizards!

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

How are they exactly the same? In the debut stream they call attention to the fact that in today's time, original morph just doesn't cut it any more. Spell and Creatures are all much stronger. They go on to mention they tested a bunch of different new morph stats (3/1, 3/3 etc) and ultimately found a nice middle ground with the Ward 2 addition. Cascade was something that only triggered when the cascade spell was cast. But thanks to Cascade 2.0, Discover, they can now attach "Cascade" to every other mechanic in the game as well as being able to change what you can cascade into. As MaRo said, "We don't like the future to be the victim of the past.", this tells me that WotC are happy to experiment and change things if things didnt work out in the past. And that's a great direction for a company to head in.

Yeah but can we address voja, jaws of the conclave... Wtf were they thinking

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

I don't understand? What do we need to address? A Naya Commander with slightly weird deck building requirement?

@LegiondaryBro

6 ай бұрын

@@attackoncardboard a 5/5 vigilance, trample craterhoof minus the haste, card draw, ward 3, for 5 mana in the command zone... And golos is banned LOL

"In magic, zero is considered as even". In what world do you live, zero is not even?

@attackoncardboard

5 ай бұрын

I'm a pretty ok Magic player, not a Mathematician 😕

Am I the only person who hates these mechanics? Morph/Manifest, and now Disguise/Cloak, are my least favorite mechanics ever printed. Set may end up being fine, but it just isn't for me.

Literally no reason to change morph or manifest. This is an even dumber implementation than "megamorph"

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

Literally there was though: Power Creep. A 2/2 for 3 just doesn't cut it anymore in todays environment. I highly recommend watching the debut stream and hear MaRo's comments.

Ward sucks…

@attackoncardboard

6 ай бұрын

How so?

@xekon14

6 ай бұрын

Ward has more design space as hexproof, shroud and indestructible. It’s doesn’t completely stop the spell from being cast either when the cost can be paid, for example in late game when you have enough mana.