That’s awesome that your Mom sent a video of the factory, you were definitely raised well!!!

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I’ll tell her you said that, I’m sure she’ll appreciate it :)

@EmilePoelman

2 жыл бұрын

I agree; your mom rocks! Does she like train travel too, or just sending you pictures of them? 🙂

I love Caltrain electrifications.

Thank you for sharing the video Thom. I do wish more commuter rails in the US were electrified. Here in the UK, we have some Stadler built trains operated by my local train company - Greater Anglia. Class 745 and Class 755. I always enjoy travelling on them :-)

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Electrification would work really well especially on lines that are already owned by the commuter rail agency - and there are quite a few of those especially here in Chicago. Or on networks where some of the lines are already electric, such as MARC or NJ Transit. Oh you live in Greater Anglia territory! I’ve seen their old Stansted Express trains but haven’t seen the new FLIRTs yet. I like the new design a lot better than the old one.

I love these trains here all over in Europe . You will at least like them. Electrify every line possible! I’m 52 and never got a drivers license, never felt the need here in Europe…

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

I’m from Europe. Seen the Stadler KISS many times, unfortunately haven’t been on one yet. The FLIRT, however, I rode almost every day.

I fully agree that trains, especially commuter trains, should be electrified. EMUs are the way to go wherever practicable as they offer so many more options. Pleased to hear that the Fast Train for California is still happening. The expansion of the Florida Brightline is evidence that regular, fast & comfortable trains are a viable option for major populated areas not just in the USA. Electrification is a more environmentally friendly & long-term cheaper option for mass transit systems. Thank you for another comprehensive & interesting video proving yet again that trains are awesome!

I hadn’t realized Utah had a factory for Stadler, must have been more expensive or came in after our commuter rail started in 2008 since ours uses MPI MPXpress and Bombardier bi-level cars and coaches. I’d definitely love to see our commuter rail convert to electric over diesel electric since the engines in the MPXpress are like tier 0 diesel. But at least Trax LRT is all electric so we’re working on it haha

@zyoninkiro

Жыл бұрын

When Stadler was looking to set up shop in the US, they needed someplace to assemble trains. Most folks thought they would select a site in Texas as, thus far, most of their sales have been to Texas systems (Dallas, Denton County, Fort Worth and Austin). However they selected SLC. They initially leased space in UTA's Warm Springs Shops where UTA maintains Frontrunner train sets. They then built their new American plant out on the west side of SLC. It's actually a good spot for Stadler as they have rail access and can easily ship both parts and raw materials in and finished trains out via the UP and BNSF. While electrification for Frontrunner is many years down the line as there other priorities such as double tracking and getting dedicated track built north of Ogden, it would be nice to see Frontrunner using Stadler trains and running like a true regional line instead of just a commuter line.

@jezzarisky

Жыл бұрын

@@zyoninkiro Good info, thanks for sharing! And yeah, sadly the slow progress in double tracking does also defer upgrading to electric years down the line. But I am happy to see the progress on expanding FR up towards Brigham and down to Payson over the next decade or so, and also hope it starts to become a more regional line rather than a commuter line.

Can't wait to ride on those new Caltrain trainsets.

I thank you for correctly pronouncing Stadler, it may seem like a trivial difference, but its still cool to hear.

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

Hey, I’m from the Netherlands, so I took German classes! Glad to hear it made a difference :)

Thanks for visiting Utah.

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

I will be back soon!

Thom your knowledge on trains is remarkable. Thanks for the video. Hats off to your Mom for sending you the video.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

She is the best!

I love California High Speed Rail.

Outstanding videos. Thank you and keep up the great work.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I will!

Nice shots of the new EMU

Thank You!

Stadler looks like it's becoming an ever bigger player in the mass transit system. They won two contracts in Portugal recently and they seem to be defeating in quality and reliability big boys like Siemens, Alstom and CRRC

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

I know, it’s impressive. My only complaint is that it’s making the European railways more monotone than they used to be. I wish operators were given more freedom in designing the shape of their train as well as the colors.

@lukasegeling5205

Жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA Interestingly, many uniquely designed Stadler trains can be found on Swiss narrow gauge and/or rack railways, such as the Bern-Solothurn regional railway's Worbla or the Gornergrat railway's new Polaris trains. Pininfarina or Nose Design Experience are behind many if not all of these designs.

Yes.

nice BGM that's a nice taste you got there

Boston's MBTA commuter rail has long-term plans to electrify some lines- and run electric trains on the Providence Line that uses Amtrak's Northeast Corridor.

Nice footage, greetings 🇳🇱

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

De groeten terug!

Yes they are because I live in Caltrain territory and everyone in the Bay Area has been waiting for electrification since 2003.

I can not wait to ride these trains. Line is not electrified yet, but soon. HSR helped pay but I believe Caltrain would have been electrified even without it.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

There is some progress though, right? Do you think 2024 is realistic (for the KISSES of course, not HSR).

@barryw9473

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA original plan was to complete electrification now, but Covid and other obstacles (not entirely clear to me what those are, but I do not attend board meetings) pushed out completion to 2024. Corridor overhead wiring is complete in many places, substations mostly installed and I believe Santa Clara to Tamien is ready to “flip the switch” on power and KISS is scheduled to run this fall on that section for testing. The major laggard is signaling and also the full suite of train sets has not been delivered - I think two or three (7 car, I believe) sets are here. Many of current cars were manufactured in 1985 and then refurbished in 2002. Am so excited to use a European train for my commute.

@barryw9473

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA I just spoke to Caltrain a few days ago and was assured 2024 will be start of service for KISS trains.

@barryw9473

2 жыл бұрын

@@TohaBgood2 ok. Is the original contractor paying for the increased cost due to substandard work?

The stadlers are what the Budd rdc's should have been in their day!

I actually worked here for a little bit, it was fun, but challenging.

@Thom-TRA

11 ай бұрын

That’s cool! What was your position?

@isaacrogers4174

11 ай бұрын

@@Thom-TRA I was an apprentice, I learned from people who work there full time.

I heard that the mbta are getting the KISS trains, for their electrification of the providence stoughton line, it looks the same, but it is purple, and it has an mbta logo, cant wait for those trains to be on the providecne line.

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

I’m not sure those are actually ordered. That might just be someone’s artwork.

Thank you. Yes, electrification has to start somewhere and it is usually the commuter systems that benefit most from it (at least if they have frequent service). You invest once in the infrastructure and serve millions of customers for decades. I assume a KISS or similar EMU has much better acceleration than a diesel hauled push-pull train. Also it can regenerate energy at every stop, as it can use half of its axles for electric braking and feed a considerable portion of the kinetic energy back into the overhead wires. The odd thing about Caltrain is, they start with low level platforms and have all the units prepared to be rebuilt to high level doors later. Which means four big holes in the body on each side, it is certainly a challenge to build a sturdy and crashworthy body around those holes. Compared to most European versions, the North American loading gauge has the advantage of being relatively square and not as rounded on top, which means that the upper deck can have straight sidewalls and more shoulder space. So a doubledeck train is a logical choice for best capacity. And I hope these trains will operate all day and not (like some "commuter" operations) into the city in the morning, then nothing, then out of the city in the afternoon.

@truedarklander

2 жыл бұрын

Doubledeckers are relatively uncommon for low headway services, hence why FLIRTs are more common than KISSs

@Isochest

Жыл бұрын

I never understood the idea of having a "commute" service. Perhaps it's a Politicians' grudge where they don't want to provide a service but begrudgingly do for commuters as without the economy would fail

@MatthiasWiesmann

Жыл бұрын

@@Isochest Commuter trains are specced and designed differently than long haul trains. They need to accelerate and brake much more, the spec in Switzerland is that they must accelerate at 1m/s² at least - top speed is less relevant than for long haul trains. Commuter trains need wide doors to quickly load and unload people, and they need lots of space, but confort is less important, so you won't have confortable seats, restaurant or playground carriages.

@chasemartin4450

Жыл бұрын

Caltrain is already running a fairly decent schedule, with trains every 15-20 minutes from 6 AM through slightly past midnight. According to the NIMBYs they are planning to run 20 trains an hour with the new EMUs. Personally, I think that would be *awesome* since the majority of Caltrain stations are actually located in walkable downtown areas, unlike commuter rail elsewhere in the country.

The Dart Silver line which will be operated by DMUs very similar to those operated by Tex Rail comes to within 1/2 a mile of my house.

Yes and yeah California High Speed Rail.

Really hoping NJ transit and SEPTA use KISS trains. Roughly half of the track in New Jersey is electrified, unlike many other areas in the US where electrified track is in single digit %. Also, there is almost no freight interference on electrified NJ transit & SEPTA routes. But the catanery systems are kinda old.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

I believe NJT and SEPTA actually have large orders with Kawasaki for electric bilevel trains.

I want Caltrain electrifications.

Traxx aren't trains, they're trams (Light Rail on street) aka Trolleys or Streetcars depending whether you are from the Southern US or Canadian (Canadien). KISS trains are designed more for S-Bahn/RER type services rather than FLIRT aimed at Interregional and InterCity services. The USA is behind European and Australia/NZ on electrified commuter rail. Britain is still pretty backward on electrification outside the South East, North West and Central Scotland.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Trams are trains that have been modified for street running. It’s a false dichotomy. If you want to be really technical, TRAX is a classic American light rail, which means that with its exclusive right-of-way, higher speeds, and larger vehicles, they actually borrow more technology from trains than from trolleys.

@bradleym3240

Жыл бұрын

Kiss trains are not designed as S-Bahnen or other suburban trains. You've got it switched. In Germany, KISS trains exist in 2 forms, the Kiss 160 and Kiss 200. The KISS 160 (the one in the video) is typically designed for regional rail services. The trains in the video serve as regional rail for commuters. KISS 200 are designed for even longer distance regional rail and Inter City services. The FLIRTs in FLIRT 2,3,and 4 models. Flirt 2s are older and used for lower capacity regional services, Flirt 3s are the most versatile and are used as S-Bahnen and Short distance and long distance regional trains. Flirt 4s are used like the KISS 200s for intercity and longer distance regional services. They all have their purpose and come in many different sizes and models.

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

@@bradleym3240 I don’t think you have this entirely right either. The thing with Stadler trains is they’re super flexible, customers can do whatever they want. -KISS is used by SBB and BLS for S-Bahn, ODEG uses them in regional services, DB and Westbahn use them for Intercities. -FLIRT 2 is used by SBB and VR in Finland for S-Bahn, in Germany they are regional trains, for Leo Express they are luxury inter cities. -Flirt 3 is used as S-Bahn in the Ruhr area and Hannover, regional trains in the Netherlands, and intercities in Poland. -And FLIRT 4 is used as an S-Bahn by BLS in Bern, and as regional trains in other countries. So as you see, the function of a Stadler train is based more on the customer designs than it is on the model. PS one of the “S” in KISS stands for s-Bahnzug.

Yes, it would be great to get a spread of electrification with KISSes and FLIRTs. So many systems would benefit from it.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

One can always hope

@cyri96

2 жыл бұрын

And with Flirts you can even future Proof them as their power pack system means that you can initially order the trains as Diesel, and later exchange the Diesel engines to for example battieries (so you can have catenary in parts of the network and run on battery for the rest, though full catenary is ofc still better).

Build California High Speed Rail and build California High Speed Rail now from San Francisco to Los Angeles and Anaheim and Sacramento to San Diego.

Funny. Looks like in Switzerland 😀🇨🇭

Get California High Speed Rail and get California High Speed Rail now from San Francisco to Los Angeles and Anaheim and Sacramento to San Diego.

There's some modifications for the latter units of Caltrain's Stadler EMUs. Most obviously, the doors on the high level are single-leaf rather than double-leaf, seen on earlier units.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know why they changed it?

@leijurv

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA the high level doors were for level boarding compatibility which is so far in the future (i.e. practically canceled) that they didn't want to worry about it. The upper doors won't operate at all until stations are rebuilt.

@leijurv

2 жыл бұрын

@@TohaBgood2 i dont see how that contradicts what i said

@leijurv

2 жыл бұрын

@@TohaBgood2 i said "so far in the future (i.e. practically canceled)", i didn't say "canceled", calm down. its obvious that i meant that it's been delayed indefinitely, and its obvious that i did not mean that it has literally been canceled

@leijurv

2 жыл бұрын

​@@antonbosneaga9392 i think you might be accidentally pinging me instead of the person who wrote that about single leaf lol. it was "yaoboy experiences" that said that

Those KISS trains from Stadler are among the best rolling stock I've ever travelled on. I say this as a Swiss.

I want California High Speed Rail.

Funny thing I railfanned the Caltrain corridor recently and I love the current locos, and the p2 horns, they are in my opinion the best rail choice in California with their frequent service.

@Southern_California_Railfanner

2 жыл бұрын

It’s a better commuter service than I think anyone in the state

Fuck now we know Utah is real now. God damnit!

@Thom-TRA

Жыл бұрын

Hey, my parents took this video, not me. I still don’t have solid evidence that this is real. The mystery continues…

We need to stop thinking of these things as "commuter" rail and start building proper REGIONAL rail systems. That's what CalTrain is quickly becoming, and its what MBTA, LIRR, Metro-North, NJ Transit, & others need to be transitioning towards as well.

You've asked us, your viewers, how likely it is that Stadler's new KISS trains will be put to use on commuter rail networks across the US. The answer to that question GREATLY DEPENDS on how well CALTRAIN implements ITS new service using ITS new fleet of Stadler electric trains. CALTRAIN must take FULL advantage of what the Stadler KISS has to offer in order to attract a great many more people onto its trains who currently prefer to drive. Chicago's METRA commuter-rail agency will very likely carefully watch what happens at Caltrain, as will Boston's MBTA, which has been seriously considering electrifying its various commuter rail lines. Both CALTRAIN and METRA are FAR behind the current state of the art with the type of service they are currently offering with their heavy, slow-to-accelerate diesel-hauled bilevel trains. Watch various KZread videos of cab rides on today's diesel-hauled CALTRAIN service - and you'll see that it is the 2022 edition of the old Southern Pacific commuter rail - very slow and clunky by today's standards. The new Stadlers SHOULD be a game-changer, but we will have to wait and see how fully CALTRAIN takes advantage of what the KISS has to offer.

@markusstudeli2997

Жыл бұрын

It will still take a few years until the Caltrain KISS can be evaluated, as they won't enter service before 2024. However, this train design has been in use since 2008 with various operators, so it's a proven design by now. I commute with a BLS KISS for a few years now, and I've liked the design from the start (and still do). It also seems to be reasonably reliable.

I know a train in Austin Texas The metro rail

E

From the video it looked like not all trains/cars will have dual level doors? One train looked like it had one car with the high entry and the other train looked like all cars had both levels? Or am I missing something?

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

You know, I thought the same thing. Personally I think the dual door thing is ridiculous and I wish they had the funding to just raise all the platforms. Some other commenters have explained that the later batch of KISSes do have a different door configuration. Excited to see these trains in action.

@chasemartin4450

Жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA The dual doors are solely to allow the trains to get up and running sooner on the existing platforms, before new stations are built for high-speed rail.

Why would they put a Japan from Los Angels To San Francisco then on Caltrain and its mostly Railroad Crossings I'm glad ita not a Quiet Zone as Metra BNSF UP & Metea Milwaukee Railroad.

@antonbosneaga9392

2 жыл бұрын

The grade crossings are either being removed or treated with complete barriers. This is completely normal in most countries. Full grade separation is only necessary on the 220mph sections of CAHSR. All of that track is already fully grade separated. The crossings are only in the metropolitan areas where the trains need to go slower anyway.

I am divided! I am a strong advocate for railway electrification, I am disappointed thtathere is NO end (front or rear) viewing for the public! Introducing electrification the public should have viewing access of teh catenary! I don't know rthis mentality in the 21st century as Japan seems to become the only railfan friendly country. there on the JR except for the Shinkansen, the conventional trains for the most5 part have a CLEAR window partition between driver and passenger area. The rest of the world is introducing stock mostly or rarely with windowed access for end viewing for the public -- all under the guise of 'privacy' for the driver! This was not the case a century or even a half century ago where many trains that are self propelled (i.e. no locomotive) allowed seeing out the front end by the ridership. WHAT HAPPENED? Even our SBB in Switzerland has moved away from front end seeing and trying to make the trains high speed, raised the driver's pladform as make certain the riders CANNOT see out the ends! I cannot believe the railfan or trainspotting Community do not exist any longer! However despite the public not being aboe to be 'introduced' to catenary, at least the electrification issue is being addressed! I HATE to say it, but YES this is the future, LOVE the company I am from switzerland myself, LOVE the electrification of course, HATE noyt being able to see the catenary and out the front of this wave of the future, NO FRONT END VIEWING FOR THE PASSENGERS! This is the future all new rolling stock will be blanked out for passenger end viewing! SHAMEFUL! Front end viewing shall become a thing of the PAST, as railway firms today look upon trains as PLANES, on aircraft the passengers are FORBIDDEN to see out the front --arbitraly! Cannot 'highjack a TRAIN! This is a very selfish and ignorant age we are living now, the 21st Century! Maybe when trains shall all become driverless and automonyously computerised, the blank partitions shall come out allowong ALL the human beings access to front end viewing of electric stock, maybe in 2094! MAYBE!!!!!

Both diesel and electric powered trains require fossil fuels to generate traction. Both will likely require fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. Why is electrification desirable for United States trains?

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

Because electric power is much more fuel efficient. One power source powers all vehicles, rather than each train producing its own emissions. On top of that, electricity has the possibility to be generated cleanly. This means that even if it pollutes some now, there is a prospect of less emissions in the future, while diesel locomotives are limited in how much we can eventually reduce emissions. Then there are the ever-increasing prices of oil and its growing scarcity. Finally, electric trains are able to accelerate much faster than a diesel train, which will allow for faster, more punctual, and more efficient service. There is a reason the rest of the world has electrified its busiest rail routes.

@d1234as

2 жыл бұрын

Electricity is generated from many different sources, not only fossil fuels. How much the electric generation pollute depends from the energy mix used to generate it: nuclear, renewable (hydroelectric, geotermic, solar or wind turbines) reduce pollution and CO2 emission. Electric trains are, indeed, more efficient than diesel trains and also can use regenerative braking, further increasing theyr efficiency; thermoelectric power plants electricity production are more efficient than a diesel engine that constantly accelerates, brakes and must move itself with the train. Electric trains are lighter, faster, quieter, can accelerate quicker and don't emit any kind of pollution where they run.

@Thom-TRA

2 жыл бұрын

@@d1234as thanks for responding with your expertise! Electric should be a no-brainer but it is nice to have someone lay out all the advantages like this.

@dexteralexander2437

2 жыл бұрын

Thom, thanks for your explanation.

@d1234as

2 жыл бұрын

@@Thom-TRA I forgot to mention that electric trains also are cheaper to buy and have lower running and maintenance cost and they have longer life than diesel trains.