I imagine a dev waking up on a cold sweat and think "Oh shit, I didn't make an interaction *insert random interaction that will never be found*" and getting up to code it in at like 3 in the morning.

@pocketblue

4 жыл бұрын

Such passion, I wish more indie games were like this

@justas423

3 жыл бұрын

@@pocketblue I think most indie games are made from passion but they also have different goals to the game, like telling a certain story and implementing weird interactions is unnecessary work.

@twb0109

3 жыл бұрын

I think that's exactly how it is, because it's an open source game, they can write some code and make a pull/merge request whenever they want to XD

@gilian2587

3 жыл бұрын

I fixed a problem in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup where an enemy was using an axe to cleave the player (and the player's minions). The cleave was getting triggered after an enemy had already teleported away from the player due to a minion hitting the monster with a distortion weapon prior to the monster's turn. It was just adding an adjacency check; but the whole damn scenario was bloody difficult to set up a test for. One can easily imagine someone losing their squishy summoner to an orcish warlord with a battleaxe in a rare scenario to this particular bug. Best advice, if squishy... don't get within melee range of Orcish Warlord, if at all possible.

@Bluecho4

2 жыл бұрын

@@gilian2587 It is generally advisable for a squishy mage to avoid getting into melee range with an orc warlord, yes.

When you drop a ring of see invisible into a sink, it says "You see some air in the sink."

@Spllyn

4 жыл бұрын

Neat

@Learnjapanesefromsomeguy

4 жыл бұрын

I almost always found dropping rings down sinks to be a kind of waste, unless I had multiples of that ring. I always felt that there were much better ways to identify them. I would hate to drop a ring down a sink only to learn that it was a Ring of Conflict, or something extremely useful.

I think one difference between Dwarf Fortress and Nethack, it sounds like the devs of DF are hoping for more situations to arise organically, where the Nethack devs lean more toward coding special cases.

@edk.2045

2 жыл бұрын

In the end, relying upon prebuilt systems is generally less fun than coding special cases because the prebuilt systems rely solely upon themselves: the player only has so much influence over how things happen. Well-designed prebuilt cases can still be very versatile and offer the player countless ways of experimenting.

@chlorine--17

Жыл бұрын

@@edk.2045 player has more influence with pre-built system emergient gameplay less influence special cases ithought?! special cases very specific while pre-built systm can be influenc with multiple possibility depending on situation

@dacypher22

4 ай бұрын

This was always my thought too. I was even listening to a Roguelike podcast a while back where the hosts shivered thinking about how many IF/ELSE conditions must be all throughout the codebase lol

Fantastic, concise reasoning for why Nethack has been a game I've returned to for over 20 years. When trying to explain its appeal, I like to cite how objects can be used in so many different ways, and I love how your player-verbs expresses the thought generally. The example I've always used is this (contains spoilers!): In Nethack, you have to eat. You can buy cream pies in shops and they're yummy. You can also steal that pie, and if you do, the shopkeeper might call the Keystone Kops. Those Kops come armed with cream pies and rubber hoses. If they throw a pie and hit you with it, you aren't injured, but you are blinded. Until you wipe your face, anyway. Now, if you throw your pie at a monster, like a floating eye which has a paralyzing gaze attack, then it is blinded and its gaze attack is nullified. Until it wipes its face, anyway. But! A floating eye has no hands.... By this point the image of a helpless floating eye with a cream pie stuck on its face should be making them laugh, and if it's not, then I change the subject.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Good example

@gr2192

5 жыл бұрын

I see two nethack on Android: Nethack and UnNethack. May you tell me the differences or help me to know the "best"?

@jesseengland5967

5 жыл бұрын

@@gr2192 unnethack is a lot like nethack I believe but with some extra stuff added in.

@gr2192

5 жыл бұрын

@@jesseengland5967 Oh, so it's the same! I have to try it, but now i am playing pixel dungeon :)

@jesseengland5967

5 жыл бұрын

@@gr2192 if you have any sort of computer/labtop I highly suggest playing on that. There's a free flash version complete with saving and leaderboards at nethack.alt.org. I couldn't imagine playing nethack on a phone, way too many commands!

I love this game like a woman. A few fun facts. Even though it was never coded to allow a player to eat a piece of flint, even if you poly into a rock mole or xorn, a response was coded into the command, "That was yabba-dabba delicious!". Also, eating a trident gives the response, "That was pure chewing satisfaction." If you prevent yourself from turning to stone, say by eating a lizard corpse, you will get the command, "You just ruined a piece of art!", unless your charisma is high enough, in which case you get, "You just ruined a piece of fine art!" If you wield a cockatrice corpse as a weapon and you aren't wearing gloves, you turn to stone. If you hit an enemy (that's made of flesh) with it, instead of doing damage and possibly dying, the monster turns into a statue of said monster (which can be mined with a pickaxe or similar tool to collect their possessions), unless it's a flesh golem, which becomes a stone golem. Also, if you are blind and walk over a 'trice corpse without gloves on, you will turn to stone. Further, if you die by petrification, and a different character stumbles across your remains, your ghost will be there, but instead of a rotten corpse of your old character, there will be a statue of him/her. Again, bring a pickaxe. Using a stone to flesh spell/wand on a rock turns it into a meatball. Using it on a boulder turns it into a meat chunk. A wand of the appropriate material becomes a meat stick, a ring becomes a meat ring, etc. A stone golem turns into a flesh golem. Oh, and if you are polymorph into a dog, all food is delicious.

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

And if you are encumbered and fall diwn the stairs, your cockatrice corpse turns u to stone. It goes on and on.

@Ibian666

2 жыл бұрын

Upvote for that last one. It's the little things.

@olliefischer

Жыл бұрын

NB: i couldn't remember ever seeing that "fine art" message, so i checked on the wiki, and apparently that's the message when you prevent self-petrification while hallucinating. (you should go read through the hallucinating-specific messages, they're all hilarious.)

@jameslarimer9211

Жыл бұрын

@@olliefischer Oh, I have, but thanks for the correction. Why hallucination though I wonder. Kinda doesn't really make sense. Maybe ABSTRACT art, but maybe I'm missing something.

@kibbylol

Жыл бұрын

@@jameslarimer9211 probably a pile of garbage art but you hallucinate that its good

You can absolutely eat a ring in human form! Use the "Stone to Flesh" spell on a ring that is made of stone (or any mineral such as topaz) and it will become a "meat ring". It's otherwise totally useless at that point, but it is edible.

@lukegamble4349

Жыл бұрын

that is actually hilarious

Similarly to Dwarf Fortress, it sacrificed graphics and approachability for flexibility, creativity and complexity. So, so, so much complexity.

@vers1fier

2 жыл бұрын

But your imagination fills in all the gaps from the ASCII symbols. In many ways these games are far more vivid than any AAA game with cutting edge graphics could ever be.

@gabrote42

2 жыл бұрын

And thanks to Imagination, it's way better than an equivalent exchange. So much passion.

Loved the "you can dual wield candles, or.... even eat one" the animation xD

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

If you want to check out more by the artist you can find his channel here: kzread.info/dron/hJtnfGZFppSFfOGFAvXKsA.html

The scene where the dude wields 2 candles and fucking angrily takes a bite of one is... Cool.

Been playing Nethack for almost 20 years and still love it. Should be on everyone's top 10. The catch is that it takes a long time to learn and even longer to master. It's like dark souls using command lines on a terminal.

@scocassovegetus

4 жыл бұрын

Crazy, how do people get started if it takes so long to learn?

@djangosartana

4 жыл бұрын

It took me over 20 years to ascend. The best game ever.

@milkjug4237

2 жыл бұрын

@@scocassovegetus Learning the commands for the game actually isn't as hard as it seems. I say this as someone new to the game myself and it gets weirdly intuitive after a while as you keep spamming ? to triple-check what does what. I recommend actually playing on the mobile port first since the game takes very little space due and you don't need to learn roguekeys (yuhjklbn). Also reduces the times where you stare in confusion of what specifically to press next on a big computer keyboard

@riverrunsthrough8268

Жыл бұрын

@@milkjug4237 recommending mobile, especially for the reasons cited, is an insane take

@bsherman8236

6 ай бұрын

Kinda ugly

Eventually, the clunky interface becomes second nature. In fact, you'll be able to play the game at dangerously fast speed (provided you have good gear etc), emptying multiple levels of monsters and loot in a matter of minutes and managing your inventory while at it. Of course, it's easy to miss a critical message when playing fast... Funny thing about sleeping leprechauns (they often sleep): a knight shouldn't attack sleeping monsters. So, to wake up just one leprechaun without making too much noise you can throw all your _visible_ gold at a leprechaun and then slaughter it. If you have 0 gold in your main inventory, the leprechaun can't pickpocket and therefore it can't escape by teleporting naturally - even though it might have certain items that allow it to teleport.

Oh dear, wendal has discovered NETHACK. And another soul has been claimed. . .

As an example of how the devteam thinks of everything, even if it has no actual gameplay consequences: If you (in a metal-eating form *hint hint*) eat a trident: /* sugarless chewing gum which used to be heavily advertised on TV */ pline(Hallucination ? "Four out of five dentists agree." : "That was pure chewing satisfaction!"); exercise(A_WIS, TRUE);

The way you describe Nethack, as a verb-first game, makes me think of parser IF (Interactive Fiction), where the sole method of interaction is typing commands into the game and seeing if the game let's you do the thing.

In ADOM, which is fairly similar, but a touch more simple, you actually get a wish for finding a use for a potion of uselessness. You throw it on an ice level to move.

One of the things that i consider really useful but still risky is kicking the sink Sometimes you found a ring or the dishwasher returns (a succubus that can raise your attributes trough sex) Some other times the water is not happy about the kick (a mob of angry water elmentals)

@elylew

Жыл бұрын

Or you can die to a black pudding like I've done more times than I'd like to admit. Or just die to the succubus. Like me a couple times.

It's quite possible for the player character to breathe fire...just not in human form.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, but it's not possible to get that ability from eating corpses, that part was artistic license.

@bizzybuzz2198

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal Unless, of course, the corpse in question is of chameleon. (Which will turn you into whatever RNG wishes)

@asvadkhan9692

3 жыл бұрын

@@bizzybuzz2198 unless you manage to get one of the few things that let you choose for the RNG

I have been getting into traditional rogue-likes lately. This genre lets you do so much and solve so many problems in many unique ways. I have heard of someone in CDDA lighting a towel on fire with a lighter and throwing it at a zombie to cover their face and catch them on fire.

The dev team incrementally improves everything not always in advance

"Things that I think still haven't been put together in another game in the thirty years since Nethack was first released." Versatility in action, engaging enemies, and a large number of creative objects and mechanics. There is one game that has all of these things and is a whole load of fun if you enjoy classic roguelikes: Space Station 13. There's an in-depth chemistry system that allows you to create all sorts of clever medicines, poisons, and dispersal methods, buuuut the clown just broke into the lab with an augmented chainsaw arm. There's an entire system dedicated to simulating atmospherics and gas interactions, buuuut you just got ambushed and converted by a blood cult that decided to set up in Atmospherics. I'd highly recommend watching some reviews and gameplays, and also try it for yourself! The controls are a bit clunky (but less so than with classic roguelikes) but it's incredibly fun!

@MrWendal

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I'll check it out!

@gabrote42

2 жыл бұрын

Another big classic

"I've found myself in a lake, where's my wagon?" "I've found myself in a wagon, where's my lake?"

Started playing NetHack about a year before you made this video, and have beaten it four months later. Really amazing experience. Now, my dream is to just take its source code someday, and then spend what will probably amount to several years integrating dialogues into it, so that the chat command will let you ask the peacefuls about things, pay them to fight alongside you, etc., while the wounded enemies may end up begging for mercy and such.

@4feitDgam3

2 жыл бұрын

Wow thats amazin mate, im playing it for years and still did not beat the game.. What class do you play? Also, there is another mode for this game called "Slashe'm" its basiclly nethack but expanded

I lost it when protagonist chomped on his candle

Ancient Domains of Mystery is another game in the same tradition that's worth at least knowing about, though it's definitely less of a kitchen sink of random items and interactions... and, at the same time, it's even more utterly inaccessible, with all the random things you need to learn: Which corpses are good to eat and which ones make you sick, which monsters it is a really bad idea to melee, when it is a really bad idea to step on an altar, etc.. The one thing I do like about ADOM versus NetHack is that while ADOM is a fantasy kitchen sink, it at least plays being a fantasy kitchen sink straight - there's weird fantasy stuff, yeah, but there's no quantum mechanics or nurses or credit cards or so forth. I've never played Aurora (usually googleable as 'Aurora 4X'), but from randomly looking at some videos of it, it sure does look like it has the same kind of ridiculously intricate interactivity - but with totally different systems from any of these games.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

I've never tried ADOM, not sure why. Aurora 4X sounds so cool. Both are on my "I'll play it one day..." list.

@aaziikaaa2262

6 жыл бұрын

You could by adom on steam with the tileset

@kered13

6 жыл бұрын

I love that whimsical atmosphere of Nethack. A lot of things were added to the game just because it sounded funny, and then they created rules about how it would interact with the rest of the game. If an interactions makes sense, it's included, even if it has no obvious use in gameplay. And then the fun of the game is figuring out how to make practical use of it!

@SA.1196

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal amazing game, actually

The fact that polymorphing yourself keeps coming up shows why that's one of my favourite features in any game ever. Exploits include: turning into a succubus to steal the quest items without killing the bosses, then returning to beat up those same bosses with the Amulet of Yendor; turning into a mind flayer and killing the quest boss by eating his brain (which also incurs cannibalism penalties); turning into a cockatrice, laying eggs and using them as petrification grenades; turning into a water nymph to swim through the water; turning into a dragon with disintegration breath; and finally, taming a shapeshifting monster imitating a housecat that can itself randomly become any of those creatures.

Reminds me of the multitude of things that can happen in Dwarf Fortress. I wonder if any game will be both as complex as these games and as approachable as a game that appreciates modern UX practices. The only ones i can think of right now is Aurora 4X(Which at least has a UI :D) or maybe Rimworld. Maybe some other 4x games.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Rimworld is pretty cool, I may end up doing a video on emergent storytelling one day that features Rimworld. It should really feature DF too, but it's so impenetrable ....

@MalekitGJ

6 жыл бұрын

i hope we, as species, reach such a coding level we can do complex games like NetHack but have the graphic of the Witcher. But alas, on todays coding we can't... but really dude, i'm a programmer and know how this shit is absolutly difficult to get a decent UI, even more how much will the cost skyrocket to do the graphics parts

@jesseengland5967

5 жыл бұрын

Long time nethack player but dwarf fortress was far too complex for me to get the hang of

@MannIchFindKeinName

3 жыл бұрын

Its 3 years late, but check out Pathos: Nethack Codex. Its Nethack, remade, and with a usable UI. Its still not "Witcher" or anything, but the programmer got rid of a lot of the tedious UI-shit, he is still actively working on it after a few years, and things are getting added slowly but steady :) (Mobile&PC Version is available for free&no ads)

@KWifler

2 жыл бұрын

@@MannIchFindKeinName What do you think about dungeon crawl stone soup?

Great explanation of why we love this game so much. Sometimes I struggle to put it into words to people who have never played and look at the confusing interface and bad graphics (or none at all) and wonder why I would play something like that. I'll be sure to send them this video! Also would totally watch more nethack content if you make it!

In fairness, you could tap the candle and get a list of the possible interactions. "Fun" interactions can be rewarding but they become old hat, and maintaining some parallelism with the real world, the set of interesting interactions can be smaller than you might expect. What we're really praising here is the rote exercise not just of programming interactions that individually are rare but collectively significant, but also the cohering of a balanced game around all those edge cases.

My level 1 played died when it fell from a pony ;-)

@jacks1368

3 жыл бұрын

That's one of the only ways to die on the first turn. If you actually do so, you get the special message: "You died... Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 Zorkmids".

Ah, so this is one of the things that inspired CDDA, amazing! I gotta give this a shot when I get a new monitor

I'm working on a project inspired by NetHack and I am trying to add in a bunch of stuff like this. I remember reading about how someone died because they had a cockatrice corpse in their inventory and fell down some stairs and was turned to stone because it fell out of the bag. I mean that's wild. Or how you can loose your ring down a sink? I mean that's amazing.

Well put and well presented.

Experimenting with this is amazing. SO many edge cases. I love it lmost as much as the organic approach DF took

Your content never disappoints, good stuff.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

"Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with."

This is my all-time favorite game and the only game I still play these days. After all other games lost their appeal and I moved out of my gaming phase, I still can't leave this one alone.

Nethack and CDDA remind me a lot of each other, although CDDA isn't quite Nethack levels of "if you can think it you can probably try it." Once tried to be a literal bible-thumping preacher, but unfortunately the game is realistic enough that hitting everything with a book eventually damages the book. (Could probably fiddle with the code just for the meme, idk) Upside of the community CDDA has, though, if a player thinks of something, they can bring it up, and then then the devs can potentially add it in (or somebody can make a mod for it).

The video implies that devs in the modern era wouldn't make games like this. Or at least with whichever aspect was referred to as clunky. But the reality is there's an entire genre (roguelike) of games that resemble this, some of which even manage to be more complex than the venerable NetHack. For strong, more recent examples, check out CDDA, or my personal favorite Caves of Qud. Also I'm not sure why Dwarf Fortress is so often called a roguelike. Besides the ascii and complexity, I'm not sure it has a whole lot in common with the genre. I could be wrong here. It's definitely not a roguelike though. Edit: Okay so evidently it has an "adventure mode" that is indeed roguelike, or at least comparable to one. But the simulation mode is far more popular and is what the game is primarily known for.

The *EVIL CURSED* grease got me rolling. You are so much fun

Not me trying to eat everything expecting to get new skills

Small note you can put a wand of cancelation with no charges into an bag of holding

Another quality video. Your voice is just so soothing.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! But the next video will be THE TOP TEN VIDEO GAME BETRAYALS with a super extreme voice over.

@johnjuiceshipper4963

6 жыл бұрын

WHAT'S UP WendalWatchers, and welcome back to another TOP TEN GAME MECHANICS, here on WendalMojo!

@MrLemonsplash

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnjuiceshipper4963 You have a badass name sir.

More videos like this please !!!! By like this I mean about nethack

That was such a smooth eloquent introduction video to nethack. Thanks. I was wondering how similar pathos was to nethack, but as a touch phone app, it lacks that intrinsic "try anything" vibe to it that I think partially defines nethack as a game. Although I can't play text based games because the symbols burn my eyes. Soooo looking forward to the graphical version of DF coming soon on steam!

@MrWendal

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

"There's a particular feature in NetHack where if you start a new game, there's a chance that you might come across the bones of your previous characters. This feature is known as the "bones file. Here's how it works: When a character dies in NetHack, the game saves the state of the dungeon level where the character died, along with all the items the character was carrying. This saved state is called a "bones file." In subsequent playthroughs, if the player reaches the same dungeon level where a previous character died, there's a chance that the game will load the bones file. When this happens, the player will find the remains of their previous character, along with any items they were carrying at the time of death. The new character can then loot the items from the deceased character’s bones, effectively recovering equipment and other valuable items." Is this info correct?

One time I put a bag of holding inside another back of holding. The bags exploded and I lost all my items :(

Anyone watching in 1080p, consider the isometric version of nethack along with the usual versions. Falcon eye or w/e only because i found it bantamweight cbt to configure the 2d version tileset. For example im at 1080p so either i use ascii or a 24 wide tileset, and 24 wide sets dont exist. Nothing else quite fits. You get a scrollbar or stretch to fit gayness like an itch io unity embed if youre at 32 wide, and 16 wide makes it a game for ants. you gotta spend a bit of time to judge such a game bc honestly its an endeavor lol. But imagine the better part of an hour before you start is spent fiddling around settings? Maybe it doesnt impress you at first sight like the 2d version does, but it could be a fairer impression of the game if you like the concept

The art in your videos is awesome. I tried to learn Nethack once, and even got a bit successful for a while. Sadly it is Dwarf Fortress levels of complex, and they both need a modern-style UI addon or such. Great game, this one.

@MrWendal

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Art is by Brett Ruys, check out Lunchbillion on youtube for more of his stuff

You can't dual-wield candles, you can only dual proper one-handed weapons.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Just checked, you are right. But you can use the wield command on two separate candles and switch between them with x.

@jameslarimer9211

4 жыл бұрын

Wow! I pretty much always used DW (I main Samurai), and am just now learning this. Can you DW cockatrice corpses? Also you can't DW TWO artifact weapons, as even a jobroni artifact (Ogresmasher frinstance) will be too proud for off-hand use.

If you want this kind of deep verb-based interaction without the clunky interface, just play the original: Tabletop RPGs.

@MrWendal

5 жыл бұрын

I do!

@KWifler

2 жыл бұрын

But then there's the extremely clunky awkward social interactions mechanic that's too hard and not fun.

@olliefischer

Жыл бұрын

yeah but that involves leaving my house 😬

The devs must have implemented systemic design that allows the unexpected interactions to work right away, right? I find it hard to believe that they would code every interaction individually. They probably make it so that all the entities with the "liquid" characteristic boil when exposed to fire so that they don't have to code every potion/elemental/etc boiling seperately.

@MrWendal

3 жыл бұрын

If you're a coder yourself, you could have a look, the source code has been released.

Very interesting!

I wish I knew how to play this game better. I’m comfortable with dwarf fortress but something about this game always makes me die in the dumbest ways possible. Like eating a rotten egg while overencumbered, tripping down the stairs, and throwing up while being strangled by a rope golem.

Hell yeah nethack is just like old-school dnd

The artwork is cute af

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

:)

You know, I love nethack (and also hate it, but in a good way), but God I wish they could figure out a way to turn it into a graphical world (yes I know you can use tilesets, but that's just not the same), to take it a step further and make it more immersive. The game mechanics are so real and natural, but the world is cold and inorganic. Perhaps I'm asking too much of an already incredible game, but it just makes me sad.

i'm amazed that noone is talking about the useless potion that you could throw in 1 part of the dungeon to make you move, whitch amazes whatever god you follow

@LaukkuPaukku

5 ай бұрын

That's from ADOM

That makes me wonder how much work it would be to 3D-animate all possible actions to have a 3D version of this game

My favorite element is the possibility of finding something amazing from the get-go. Every other game strictly prohibits this. I once found a wand of wishing on level 3..and i think thats the playthrough when i actually beat the game. The one playthrough..after years..

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

Vorpal sword is very handy when u meet asmodious

@jameslarimer9211

2 жыл бұрын

I once was looking through the spoilers and decided there was a weapon I had previously considered undesirable, was actually part of my dream endgame gear and especially powerful early game. A few days later I started a new character of the appropriate class and there it was sitting in the same room as the stairs to the exit. No exaggeration.

@elylew

Жыл бұрын

I found one in a box on level 1. Guess what I wished for. How did you know?!

I miss your videos bro, hope life is treating you well

@MrWendal

Ай бұрын

It is, sorry and thanks

Such a good video!, that's what i wanted from fucking "next gen" consoles or hardware in general , more options, the calculation power used to simulate other, new aspect of a game, instead of graphics that are overrated ( BLOODY ANTHEM, BATTLEFRONT 2, WARCRAFT REFORGED, POKEMON SW/SH ETC ETC.) the list goes on, the developers (not everyone ofc ) are encasing us in crystal and golden boxes, sometimes broken, where u can have the same ( if not less ) iteration you had in a 20 year old game.... Im not just getting older.. i love games, but the industry is pushing many of us away so we move to other stuff, and that i think it's the primary reason of the most recent boardgame renaissance.

2:12 Dirty keyboard!!! As it should be! :P

Oh wow. Gonna be honest, I look at screens like that and I think it’s the kind of accidental neurological diagnostic tool that Dwarf Fortress is. This doesn’t just sound like a game but a good one.

You should do a video on Dwarf Fortress, not sure on what mode though haha

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

I have tried, and failed, on six separate occasions to get into Dwarf Fortress. :(

@ZilesFiles

6 жыл бұрын

You are not alone there, good sir! I have tried several times because it sounds conceptually like I would enjoy it. But that learning curve is crazy steep.

@flamingcow5916

6 жыл бұрын

Mr Wendal on games Just take a quick look at the Wiki, and I'd say try out Adventure mode first, it's a lot easier (but still a bit complicated) to get into, also use a texture pack so it's easier to identify things

@sneakyfatcat

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal I know this is an old comment, but I was the same way. It eventually took a full weekend fueled by little sleep, plenty of snacks, a shit ton of caffeine, and the wiki constantly open (plus a copy of getting started with df). The first good run I had where I setup a military and fended off an unforgotten beast and a goblin raid changed me. Since then, a few years later, I'll probably play it once a month or more. Even with all the game time I'm still a novice and am amazed by what unfolds everytime I play. I'm glad I gave it a third or fourth shot until it finally stuck for me, but God damn I wish I started with adventure mode. I would have gotten hooked without having to turn into a literal dwarf to learn it. Oh yeah, and always play with soundsense and dwarf therapist. It really adds to the experience. It's also much easier to learn with a texture pack, though I don't play with one anymore.

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

@@sneakyfatcat I've tried adventure mode, and I still find the level of confusion weighs me down so much I can't enjoy playing it. Sorry. And I'm pretty sure I will never have an entire weekend to burn on gaming like that until my kid grows up and goes to college or something. But thanks for the advice.

Caves of Qud vibes niceee

I like how valuable objects in Nethack are often those very much mundane ones and how they are used. Like Lamp, Camera, Can of Grease, towel, a key etc... Even Magic marker is exactly what it says, even if magical. And then how they use simple logic to limit players actions: Of course you can't just hoover the dungeon and sell items. Shopkeeper can't afford to buy that. If you can kill dragons, of course you can kill a shopkeeper and take his stuff etc...

Basically Nethack is the OG immersive sim.

What if instead of preprogrammed interactions for items, we could plug in a pretrained LLM to evaluate those things, could it become a great game?

I wanna play nethack4 but i cant figure out how, also what version is he using?

You should look into Space Station 13. Its multiplayer, but surpasses the level of complexity w interactions in Nethack.

Started to play this game for like 5 years ago and I'm still playing it. Its a awful game the first 10h but after that its one of the best games ever! Its still awful in many ways after 10h but you learn to live with it :p and the good things about this game is really good!

@milkjug4237

2 жыл бұрын

8 years?

Brb going to go drink my book

You can write with a ring on the ground. Nethack is on phones now? You didn't even go over pets, the huge list of spells, or that leprechauns always teleport to the nearest staircase. A ring of teleport control with a wand if teleportation and you can chase that thief down.

What Nethack build are you playing here? Digging the UI panels.

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

I tried for hours to get a good looking Nethack window to capture, first under linux and then windows. I failed, so I borrowed some creative commons footage. There's a link in the description. You can ask the original author, someone called "jbob" on youtube, what build and UI setup they're using.

@ryanhawkin7574

5 жыл бұрын

it looks like either nitrohack, dynahack, nethack 4 or fiqhack they all use the same UI which is the best ASCII UI ever compared to other variants

@derjbob

3 жыл бұрын

I just stumbled over this video from a reddit thread and was quite surprised to see footage of me playing nethack. It's called the "curses interfaces"

Nethack is so nerdy, I regained my virginity.

. There are no kraken in the medusa level. There are electric eels and there are giant eels, sometimes a jellyfish, but never a Kraken. You can't "grease all your items." Grease has a certain number of charges and there's no way a nethack player could grease every single one. Grease will also wear off every time the grab attack happens (has a chance of wearing off. There is no raft in the medusa level or even in the game.

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

You're probably right about the kraken. No you can't grease everything in the game but I didn;t say you could, I said it has multiple uses. Yes grease wears off after grab. The raft was artistic license, details in description of this video.

@magicbymccauley

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal I am right about the kraken.There are only a few things to grease. You grease your cloak for the eels. You grease your bag so your potions and scrolls don't get washed clear. You grease your helmet to prevent tentacles from mind flayers. Greasing can also prevent rust from a rust monster on your metal armor pieces, but again wears off. You can grease spellbooks and scrolls to prevent blanking in water, but usually a container (with your stuff in it) makes more sense. Putting the raft there was a little off putting. This is because the medusa level is one of the most interesting decision points in the game. It has multiple solutions. 1. You can jump across parts with boots of jumping or spell of jumping. 2. You can dig down below the level with a pickaxe or wand of digging, then go upwards to fight medusa. If you lack a means of getting back across the lake, you can continue (like a badass) to the castle to get a wand of wishing and then wish for a solution back across. 3. One of the statues may be Perseus who may have boots of levitation inside the statue (they will be cursed but still!) 4. You can freeze the water and walk across. Be careful, you might slip! Someone might melt the ice with firebreath or a wand of fire! 5. You can polymorph into a swimming monster to get across. (need spell or wand of polymorph, and ring of polymorph control.) 6. You can read scolls of earth and push boulders in to make a path. 7. Boots of Water Walking. 8. Amulet of magical breathing and just walk across the bottom!. 9. Potion of levitation, ring of levitation. Boots of levitaiton. 10 Boots of water walking. Level is NO TELEPORT. This is one of the other things I like about the game: multiple ways to skin a cat: but all of them difficult!

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

Perseus statue has a shield if reflection..

I thought you could gain intrinsics by eating rings?

@zennistrad

3 жыл бұрын

You can, but you have to polymorph into a monster that can eat metal first.

Way too short. I think nethack is the best game of all time. Sooo many details. Could make an hour long video easy. But, that being said, thanks for appreciating it. No game has ever come close. My favorite example of the dev team thinking of everything is the ball & chain. Fall in a hole then climb out, push a boulder into the hole and you are free.

@MrWendal

2 жыл бұрын

It took me a very long time to make this video as short as it is. If it was twice as long it would have been half as good. Sorry. If you'd like an hour long epic on Nethack, I suggest making one yourself.

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal I didnt mean it as a criticism. In fact i meant it as more of an appreciation that you did this and a wish for more.

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

You have 1 wish +1 hour wendal nethack video. Your wand of wishing disintegrates

@Azure9577

10 ай бұрын

There are many games which come close or even surpass nethack Dwarf fortress and Cataclysm DDA for example

While I appreciate the sentiment, I feel like it doesn't quite work this way in Nethack -- outside of advanced strats, you can really only do one or two things with each item (i.e. while you can *try* to [e]at or [P]ut on or [q]uaff or [a]pply your crystal plate mail, the only thing that will actually work is [W]earing it. Similarly, the only action you can do with an amulet of reflection is [P]utting it on (or I guess theoretically [e]ating it, but only if you're polymorphed) -- the only thing I can really think of that spans categories is cockatrice corpses, and that's more of a liability than anything... FWIW, I think Cultist SImulator, another great roguelike, fits this mold better

3:00 you ain't slick

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

Well in 14,492 views you're the first one to spot it, well done!

I absolutely love nethack. I've put hours into it and I'm still coming accross new things every time i enjoy a dungeon. However, can someone please tell me how one goes about beating it? I've gone up the stairs and gotten out of the dungeon and "escaped" multiple times, but is that really it?

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

Go to the bottom of the dungeon, get the amulet of Yendor, go back up and escape the dungeon. Good luck, you'll need it!

@craftyviking5654

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Thats "it" so simple. Then pat yourself on the back because you've beaten the hardest game to beat in history..

What version of NetHack has that display? Looks much more informative than vanilla nethack I'm using (3.6.3).

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

I don't actually know. I found it on a youtube video, and wanted to find it myself, but couldn't. So I just used that youtube video itself, it was put up under the creative commons license. There's a link in the description.

@derjbob

3 жыл бұрын

I just stumbled over this video from a reddit thread and was quite surprised to see footage of me playing nethack. It's called the "curses interfaces"

@MrWendal

3 жыл бұрын

@@derjbob Thanks for releasing your stuff under creative commons! (I should do the same, but I don't want people using my voice)

L send shiver down spine.

So it's like...a more defined and polished version of Dwarf Fortress Adventurer mode? Hell,looking at how the character you control is a @ i know Dwarf Fortress was inspired a lot by this game

@jesseengland5967

5 жыл бұрын

The at symbol was a common symbol to use amongst roguelikes. I believe it's what rogue used.

@rectaalborween8471

5 жыл бұрын

Ah okay then

Ultima Ratio Regum promises to be even more amazing than Nethack or even Dwarf Fortress. It looks like it might turn out to be the ultimate roguelike/rpg/fantasy world simulator, when it its ready. I just hope it will have UI thats relatively easy to learn. As for Nethack. I was always impressed with the complexity of the game and all the stuff you could do in it. But i never really played it. I rather played ADOM, it had better word building (still not great) and the ASCII art was prettier. Still, I havent played roguelikes in like 15 years. I like the idea of of massive roguelikes, but i just have no patience to learn (or relearn) all the keyboard shortcuts anymore (not that i ever learned all the shortcuts in any roguelike. Also at the time, i couldnt even use all the shortcuts as i was using a Finnish keyboard)

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

About learning keyboard shortcuts, I first played Nethack on Nintendo DS (homebrew). You press the left shoulder button and it came up with all the verbs, you can then choose one. So I didn't have to learn the shortcuts, it was an easy way into the game. I must have put 100 hours in on Nethack DS, way more than any of the actual official games I played on DS.

Right now i am sure i never played real game before...

So it's basically as close as your going to get to tabletop rpgs

@Truth_Hurts_Bad

6 жыл бұрын

It *IS* based on D&D universe.

Cataclysm dark days ahead does these just as well. Its just not a fantasy ;)

xorn is hack class poly control and teleport

Macgyver the game.

why hasn't anyone updated nethack to be 3d / good graphics and an overhaul to do all the things that it lets you do?

@MrWendal

3 жыл бұрын

What little 3D / good graphics mods out there are just not used because they just can't offer nice looking graphics and still be dense enough to display all the little pieces of information you need to play the game. If you want to do all the little things it lets you do simply, try playing it on your phone.

@DeconvertedMan

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal I think someone could come up with something, but that someone is not me :D

@fatalfencer

2 жыл бұрын

as a game dev: graphics are expensive as hell. This game's been made for decades with the assumption in doesn't have to display what's going on, just write it. It would take decades of work to actually make this look good, and there just isn't the money there to support that.

@DeconvertedMan

2 жыл бұрын

@@fatalfencer cool you dev game! I have an idea... ;) nah you've heard em all I'm sure :D

I can find two nethack on Android: Nethack and UnNethack? What is the "best"? I mean, the game of you're taking here :) Can sameone help me, please?

@MrWendal

5 жыл бұрын

Play regular Nethack. UnNethack is a mod. Although any Nethack is not best experienced on a phone. I don't play on phone, I only used it in this video because it provided some visual variety.

@gr2192

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal I like to have a game like this on the go! :) It is not good on a phone because of the controls? Is the game the same?

@MrWendal

5 жыл бұрын

Game is the same, yes. Yes, the controls are bad on a phone.

@gr2192

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrWendal Thank you for the help :) If you can, i have one last question. I've just seen pathos Nethack, a game with better controls; but i can read that it is "a little different" from Nethack. Do you know in what pathos is different? Thank you again :)

@yasd8493

5 жыл бұрын

The only bad thing of playing Nethack on a phone is teleportitis. That status is difficult to control there!

vim game

>Other games I should really play to explore this kind of interactivity include Dwarf Fortress Yes! :) www.pcgamer.com/how-cats-get-drunk-in-dwarf-fortress-and-why-its-creators-havent-figured-out-time-travel-yet/ ^ a great example of what you are talking about in the video

Play it on PC and not mobile, it’s like twenty times better.

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

Actually I mainly played it on homebrew Nintendo DS back in the day. Had a great menu system that brought up all the commands was great for teaching you the game. I only included mobile footage to have something a little bit visually different in the video. I've never seriously played it on mobile.

@milkjug4237

2 жыл бұрын

Mobile port works fine

This channel has far too few subs

@MrWendal

6 жыл бұрын

I think I have enough. I have a lot of nice, cool, grateful people (like you!) who post nice comments, but I'm not popular enough to get random haters. I have viewers that'll enjoy whatever videos I want to make, whenever I get around to actually making them - but not so much that I feel pressure or performance anxiety. It's nice to get a little boost every now and then, without having my self-esteem on the line when I hit upload. It's pretty good, being mildly successful.

BACKGROUND MUSIC made this unwatchable.

@MrWendal

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry. You could turn subtitles on and mute the video, that way you don't have to listen to my annoying voice either