I second those asking for a full-length video on this subject, please.

@user-lv5vj1vo9t

21 күн бұрын

Thirded

@dh2032

20 күн бұрын

@@user-lv5vj1vo9t frothed

@Gwalchgwyn

20 күн бұрын

One-'hundreded'.

@virtual-viking

19 күн бұрын

You can observe the same effect by dropping two ice cream sticks or plastic drinking straws along side of each other in a tank of water. When you make some small waves in the water, the 2 are pushed together. The keyword here is _pushed._ The apparent sucking force is the relative absence of waves in the shielded water between the 2.

@jasont7866

19 күн бұрын

bump!

This effect is a real pain when designing MEMS chips

@drsjamesserra

21 күн бұрын

Explain

@JustaReadingguy

20 күн бұрын

I would think the residual gas would completely overwhelm the effect.

@wb3904

20 күн бұрын

@@drsjamesserra I think that going to the nano scale or lower the Casimir force becomes more and more powerful, causing anything mechanical to not work as intended. That said there might be applications where the force can help

@21stcenturyscots

19 күн бұрын

Well, please explain, how do you work around it when you design your chips

@DrDeuteron

19 күн бұрын

put a dummy plate on the outside. Repeat until you have an anchor point?

The Kashmir effect is listening to Led Zeppelin in the desert. 🐪

@lokiva8540

5 күн бұрын

That identical experience can also be very different across those doing it, and not pose a fallacious contradiction.

Okay, what? This requires a full-length video. If that doesn't fit into your video programming, then maybe PBS Spacetime should do it.

@legro19

21 күн бұрын

I would like, but how i understand it the casimir effect should not happen. Hard to make a video explaining something nobody can and goes against our understanding of physics.

@PeterBaumgart1a

21 күн бұрын

​@@legro19not really. There are some very reasonable explanations for this effect. See Wikipedia.

@legro19

21 күн бұрын

@@PeterBaumgart1a Yes but all of them are kind of speculative.

@matthiasbroek8055

19 күн бұрын

Fermilab had a video about virtual particles in which this efffect was described.

@rob9756

19 күн бұрын

the vacuum between the plates contains waves of only a certain size, so that the distance between the plates is a multiple of the wavelength. therefore, there is less energy between the plates than outside. By the way, the magnitude of this effect was calculated thanks to the great Indian mathematician Ramanujan.

Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves!

@markzambelli

22 күн бұрын

🤣Sergeant Oddball was always my fave 🤣

@orazor777

21 күн бұрын

Ruff Ruff

@teemusid

18 күн бұрын

​@@orazor777That was your other dog impression.

@orazor777

18 күн бұрын

@@teemusid haha nice 😊

Hi Sabine! Break a piece of metal in a vacuum, then put the two pieces back together. They vacuum weld. If you get lucky in the shape of the break, the same van der Waals (atomic-scale charge nudging) and metallic bond (delocalized electrons) that hold the metal together internally reactivate across the narrow gap, pulling the pieces back together and making them a single piece again. Given that these are the same forces that make lumps of metal or other materials possible in the first place, there is no need to make the vacuum the final source of the snap-back energy. It is only a return of the energy stored by breaking the metal in the first place. The vacuum wave analysis idea was Bohr’s idea, not Casimir's. There was no need for it since the known internal bonding forces of the plates were already entirely sufficient to explain the attraction effect and, more importantly, to provide precise mathematical limits on how much energy could be stored. Bohr’s far more idealized approach - idealized because, e.g., there is no such thing as a “perfect” plane in grainy atomic matter - unfortunately had the opposite effect. Instead of fully quantifying the forces and energy release in terms of the well-known bonding forces inside material objects, Bohr added a redundant hypothetical energy originating from “the vacuum.” The fact that Bohr’s vacuum energy addition duplicates already well-known internal binding forces is a warning sign. Good old conservation of energy. It's still a great guiding principle! The interesting piece is what you described: Why is vacuum energy between the two nearby plates negative? Unfortunately, it's nothing more than a modeling error. Both metal pieces create Van der Waals and metallic bonding potentials close to their surfaces. If one incorrectly extends these near-surface bonding potentials to infinity, the energy potential between the surfaces necessarily goes negative when the bonds begin to reform. Sabine, I am sorry, and since I'm nothing but a poor, bewildered programmer, I don't expect you to believe me. Nonetheless, for the record, there is no wiggle room for negative gravitational energy in any of this. Bohr did not realize that material objects have bonding fields with positive energy extending slightly beyond their boundaries. By incorrectly presuming a near-field energized vacuum to be a ”pure” vacuum, Bohr wound up with nothing more than an illusion of negative energy vacuums. The actual energy drop when two plates approach closely is always smaller than the bonding potential of their near fields and thus always positive in terms of gravitational energy.

@leachblah6313

10 күн бұрын

Then you should hire someone who would do calculation for you. Then publish your paper for review. edit: not "hire" but work together.

@TerryBollinger

10 күн бұрын

@@leachblah6313, heh, sorry, my self-mocking sometimes makes me come over as a bit more helpless than I am. While I am, indeed, a mere software programmer, I'm also one who speaks physics fluently and is very good at debugging. Physics could use a lot of debugging these days. I did a deep dive on Casimir a year or so ago, but I've been putting off a deeper dive into resolving Casimir's absurd transparency argument. This discussion forced me back into it, and I think I've got a pretty good resolution to the transparency argument. I'll mention my paper here when I feel comfortable with the analysis. I self-publish at Apabistia Press. My only reviewer is me, but since I think most of my ideas are incredibly stupid and don't mind being blunt in telling myself that, it works out.

@leachblah6313

10 күн бұрын

@@TerryBollinger People with worse ideas than you have published before. The worst they got is just rejection and nothing more. Yours is a bit interesting. It definitely deserves some attention.

@TerryBollinger

10 күн бұрын

@@leachblah6313 thank you, that's much appreciated! I once checked briefly into one of the major journals but lost all interest when I discovered they charged a thousand dollars or so to make an article “open.” I had some interesting email exchanges with the editor. I think he finally realized how (for him, unexpectedly) offensive the pay-to-play meaning of “open” is to someone like me from the open-source software community. I once pretty much annihilated my long-term career to keep one company from destroying open-source software in the US, and I would do it over again in a split second. A friend of mine, whom I neglected to warn of how vicious and unexpected attacks can be on such issues, committed suicide. “Open” is a word that means a lot to me personally, and it's not easy for me to contemplate participating and what I consider a serious misuse of the concept. Also, I still firmly believe that predatory publishing is predatory publishing, even if it's Nature charging $10,000 for the prestige of publishing with them. Pay-to-play never, ever produces good science in the long term. I understand the financial pressures, and I cannot suggest a good alternative, but what is going on now is not the right path.

@TerryBollinger

8 күн бұрын

@@leachblah6313, again, thanks. If you have a specific collaboration suggestion, please let me know directly. I'm not hard to find. However, for my current goals, rapid self-publishing with little concern for audience width - I already have better depth than you might expect - works better than excruciating slow external review cycles. That's especially true since much of what I'm doing is better understood as solution-space scouting.

Tiny attractive force between two extremely close plates? I'd bet it's gravity.

What is the scientific consensus on using the negative energy in the Casimir effect as the negative energy required in the Alcubierre warp drive? A long time ago I was on a science message board and someone did the math (which was over my head...) and he determined that you'd have to have plates no larger than one atom thick. And then came along graphene and I've wondered ever since.

@MultiObeone

15 күн бұрын

As long as the manufacturer made the plates in space without a proximity force or big gravity affecting the process.

@isonlynameleft

13 күн бұрын

We just don't know enough about the vacuum/quantum gravity to definitively answer these questions yet. Unfortunately the Alcubierre drive isn't physically feasible as it stands at the moment.

@scribblescrabble3185

8 күн бұрын

sry, but the energy between the plates is still positive.

I suspect the plates simply can't be too light, as in that case they would no longer effectively shield the space between them (i.e. they would become too translucent). The overall effective energy would be the volume-weighted average of the 'negative' space in between the plates, and the plates themselves - and would always come out positive.

@SabineHossenfelder

22 күн бұрын

Yes indeed I had been thinking the same. However, while this might be the case in practice for sure, I do not see any way why this would have to be fundamentally so. If it was, that would also be interesting because it would require a so-far unknown relation between geometry and the constants of nature.

@absalomdraconis

22 күн бұрын

​@@SabineHossenfelder: There is a case where I would argue that the mass of the plates becomes a trivial bit of minutea: when one of the plates is in orbit around the other. Is there a scale at which the Casimir effect disappears, or does it contribute in some (miniscule) fashion to dark energy?

@Thedeepseanomad

22 күн бұрын

Ah Yes, the old Cosmic plate mass exclusion hypothesis. 🙂

@jurajvariny6034

22 күн бұрын

@@absalomdraconis then you have rotational energy involved, plus moving uncharged conductors causes some electromagnetic effects too

@TerribleShmeltingAccident

22 күн бұрын

i tend to agree. difference of potential is what is important here.

Put a hole in the plate. And double up on the plates. The shape of the hole, a twisted ribbon, maybe reveal with a circular bore would not.

The potential energy arising from the combined electronegativity of the molecules in the materials can contribute to the overall interaction between the plates, leading to the observed attractive force in the Casimir effect.

@randolphcordell6380

7 күн бұрын

Yes

Can you do a full video on this?

I think I saw you have one of these arguments in person with Jacob 15ish years ago in California

@Thomas-gk42

22 күн бұрын

Wow, do you have a reference? Can it be watched?

@materialsdan

22 күн бұрын

​@@Thomas-gk42this was informal discussion after online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/fluctuate08/intravaia/pdf/Intravaia_Fluctuate_KITP.pdf

When it comes to physics, it isn't often my guess is as good as yours.

I thought the effect was due to longer quantum wavelengths being excluded from the gap between the plates? (Well something like that!)

@deltonlomatai2309

22 күн бұрын

I though it was because of virtual particles coming into existence outside of the plate striking the outside of plate and the plates causing a void between the plates.

@Thomas-gk42

22 күн бұрын

That was my layman´s understanding too, and I always figured it impausible.

@woody442

22 күн бұрын

That is what Sabine means by „different vacuum“. Quantumfluctuations are virtual particles and the conditions in between the plates allow fewer virtual particles to exist (because of their wavelength). There is also a non quantum explanation via Van der Waals forces and it is producing valid results aswell.

@rellethias

22 күн бұрын

I thought it was sort of like hawking radiation in which the plates act as a sort of horizon for the particles involved to escape annihilation, but then I remembered that hawking radiation exists by virtue of drawing energy from the black hole, so it should be the total energy state would be zero not negative.

@IanM-id8or

22 күн бұрын

Only the waves that can form standing waves between the plates can exist between the plates.

I have a Casimir Scarf but i can't get it to stay around my neck for long.

Definitely a full length video required. Some are confusing this with the Van der Vaals force

Sounds like wringing- when two very flat surfaces adhere to each other like high quality thickness gauges. One way to eliminate the possibility of the cause of adhesion being the vacuum of the absence of air, would to place the two plates in a perfect vacuum. The vacuum of space wouldn't work with two pieces of metal since they would become welded together. Which causes me to wonder if this welding is caused by the Casimir effect.

@Berend-ov8of

20 күн бұрын

The wringing effect works on isolators too, such as ceramics.

@user-vw3wz9mc5o

19 күн бұрын

@Berend-ov8of this tablet I'm responding to your comment with adheres to a painted metal cabinet I place it on regularly. It doesn't sit perfectly flat, because the lense sticks out a millimeter or two, so I think that rules out suction as the cause for adherence. Being a tablet, I would think the case would be made out of a material that provides shielding as well as antistatic properties leading me to believe that it has something to do with the close approximation of electrons in both surfaces.

@Berend-ov8of

18 күн бұрын

@@user-vw3wz9mc5o What about magnets in the tablet?

@greenaum

17 күн бұрын

@@Berend-ov8of Right, the speaker likely has one.

@user-vw3wz9mc5o

17 күн бұрын

@Berend-ov8of it must be magnets. It won't adhere to glass, but it it sticks to a refrigerator with a slight texture. Doh! =( 8(o)

If the effect could be scaled up somehow, things could get very interesting

It's just a bug in the code. If enough people would report it then maybe it will get fixed.

The casimir effect is special somehow and we just need to figure out in which way.

@Syphirioth

20 күн бұрын

Ye well if we not wanna adjust the unnderstanding of gravity and radiation on large scale vs small scale we gonna dwindle arround. Maybe casimir effect is just gravity between objects. Obscured by the other huge fields surrounding a planet.

I've heard many physicists argue that over all, there is no negative energy involved at all, because the "negative" value between the plates is only negative *relative* to the vacuum energy outside the plates. Maybe there's a strong argument that disproves this point, but maybe this negative energy value effectively just means that there's less vacuum energy between the plates than outside, without ever violating the positive-energy condition. Idk.

now i have a stupid question: are we sure about it not just being an effect related to the atomes of the plates? the plates are very close together, so couldn´t it be just (at least partial) some sort of attraction between the atoms of both plates?

@erinm9445

22 күн бұрын

A good general rule of thumb is that if you as a youtube viewer can think of a hypothesis, the scientists have thought of it too.

@ChefForte

22 күн бұрын

​@@erinm9445 Very true, but I would fall out of my chair laughing if one day, a scientist came out and reported "sorry, sorry, it was just atoms and gravity doing things we hadn't predicted. The KZreadrs win today".

@light8258

21 күн бұрын

The scientists did think of this and the Casimir force can be explained by the varying electric field inside the atoms of both plates, that create attractive Van-der-Waals forces, which pull the plates together. But this doesn't disprove the more fundamental model, that involves vacuum fluctuations. There's actually a big debate, whether vacuum fluctuations are real and many physicists claim that the Casimir effect proves they are real. But since the Casimir effect can also be explained by Van-der-Waals forces, many other physicists claim, the Casimir effect doesn't prove anything about vacuum fluctuations. There are other experiments though, that do suggest the existence of vacuum fluctuations, and if they exist, they should be seen as the more fundamental theory to explain the Casimir effect (rather than Van-der-Waals forces, which would then arise from vacuum fluctuations).

Vacuum welding is real.

How about a long video about this? I'd love to watch, especially if it mentions the Ramanujan summation as well.

@ianstopher9111

22 күн бұрын

If you read the wikipedia page on the Casimir effect, you can see how the computation uses zeta-function regularisation to compute ζ(−3) = -1/120. Compare that to the standard Ramanujan summation which is ζ(−1) = -1/12.

@rahantr1

22 күн бұрын

@@ianstopher9111 yeah I've heard of Wikipedia before.

@pappi8338

18 күн бұрын

​@@rahantr1Since you asked for a video I also assumed you didn't know where to look for information. They weren't being condescending they were simply referring to where you can find information

We do not even know if the overall charge of the universe is zero; symmetry is not really a proof of the net amount being zero. The only thing we know is: positive charge + negative charge of Electron and Proton restoring the sum of overall charge of the particles back to the average. Like waves in the ocean have heights and lows, the total amount of water is not required to be zero. All we can measure is the deviation from the average when negative charge experiences a displacement from the positive charge.

Couldn't it be gravity of plates themselves?

@arkadejones2271

14 күн бұрын

That would be way too weak.

@isonlynameleft

13 күн бұрын

It's been a while since I've looked at this in earnest but I assume one must subtract all the other forces that can be accounted for.

As a layperson, I’d love to hear you unravel what’s behind that question at the end.

Could be that tiny differences, so tiny we can't measure, turn out to be very impactful on the overall workings of the universe.

Size of molecules and closeness of the plates allows lower pressure between the plates

I have a lifetime negative force. I push everyone away from me. Works for me!

@lystic9392

21 күн бұрын

Does that mean they are also negative?

I didn't understand most of this but it will be so cool in a few years when I finally get it!!

I always thought that electrons spinning around atom nucleolus (at least that is how electrons used to be portrayed - like planets round a sun) might gradually sync-up very very slightly between plates ... e.g. two plates -one on the left one on right. Then over nanoseconds the electrons on the left plate move left as the elections on the right plate move left. As the electrons on the left move right the electrons on the right move right so each side electron are fractionally closer to the opposing plates positive center as they rotate causing a slight attraction. Not all electrons all the time but enough syncing between to cause some attraction

Cazimir effect requires a deep-dive video and a massive joint imho

Casimir effect! Really famous in physical chemistry circles. As this effect is used to describe weak interactions, someone should do the experiment with two sheets of graphene.

From possible explanations I've heard, instead of it being an actual negative energy, it's a reduction in the underlying quantum field strength. So not really negative energy, just a lower energy region than outside of the plates. Kind is like when people describe a vacuum as "negative pressure" which isn't a real thing, they just measured a "negative" gauge pressure.

It appears to be where the new physics is hiding in plain view. If you view particle physics its an attribute of unknown particle interactions. If its all about waveform interaction then its again unknown interactions. We will spend another 100 years stuck in the same uncertainty.

Off with the negative waves! 🤪

imagine harnessing negative energy at an immense scale.

On first hearing this I recall the very moment I was introduced to this. 2003 in New Scientist, a sunny day in Melbourn. I acepted the explination of twenty years ago. I am excited this is being thought through again. Thankyou.

It's not the plates, it's the gap. Everything is due to spacetime in the end.

Pretty much any molecule changes alignment when near another, creating a field bias.

Well...How less heavy can these plates be? Can they be so small as much as to be outweighed by the negative energy referred here and 'fall' up?

@SabineHossenfelder

22 күн бұрын

Well, in practice we can't do it (the Casimir energy density is super tiny). However, in principle that should be possible and I don't know anything that would forbid it. That's what makes this problem so weird!

@vijay_r_g

22 күн бұрын

@@SabineHossenfelder So, in principle, how exactly should the experimental setup be so that it can fall up?

@vijay_r_g

22 күн бұрын

​@@SabineHossenfelderSo,in principle, how should the experimental setup be so that it can fall up?

@absalomdraconis

22 күн бұрын

​@@vijay_r_g: I would hazard a guess that the "simplist" approach is for one of the plates to be in orbit of the other.

One could accurately surmise that 'Negativity' might occur whenever there are opposing views. ;)

Amazing thing is plates always shown vertical until Sabine shows horizontal

This may be a clue for warp generation. Someone needs to put multiple plates togeter, start them in staggered compression in different frequencies, and observe what happens.

It's physics waiting to be discovered if they every tear themselves away from bogus String Theory.

Any uncharged surface sufficiently close to another will finally attract due to molecular forces caused by the polarization of molecules in close proximity. This effect is theorized for such things as gauge blocks and Gecko's feet. No quantum vacuum needed.

@davidconner-shover51

15 күн бұрын

Van Der Wals forces

@isonlynameleft

13 күн бұрын

Yes. One can only assume that they figured out a way to subtract those forces? 🤷

Need a whole video on this subject

This is what is stretching space time

Pls make a detailed video about casinir effect and the problem with current explanation

FTL warp drives, as postulated, require negative energy ... so ... ?

@SabineHossenfelder

22 күн бұрын

Yes, in fact, the Casimir Effect is the most-often quoted way to potentially generate these. Highly controversial if that makes any sense...

@dananorth895

17 күн бұрын

The warp drive demands enormous amounts of negative energy (same as wormholes). The casimer affect produces miniscule amounts ....maybe.

"Uncharged" perhaps statically, but dynamically, probably is charged via exposure to electro-magnetic waves. I suspect both plates are acting as antennae's, but I know nothing about this, Sabine, other than what you point out in this short. Very interesting! -John (from Arizona)

The glasses suit you well, Sabine.

Okay, I'm a simple guy, so I think in simple terms. Metal plates have electrons that randomly move around. As they do, the plates become polarized. The dipole moment of a plate randomly changes. Those random changes of the polarization of one plate affect polarization of the other plate in such a way that the plates attract each other. In other words, Casimir force between the plates has the same origin as the van der Waals force between neutral atoms.

@IanM-id8or

22 күн бұрын

It's actually more along the lines of - only particular standing waves can exist between the plates as they have to complete a half cycle exactly. Waves outside the plates have no such limitation. So there are more of them, and the overall energy outside the plates is therefore higher than that between them.

@johnkeck

22 күн бұрын

@@IanM-id8or yours is of course the standard explanation. But the phenomenon @MrKarpovy describes needs to be accounted for also for the uniqueness of the Casimir effect to stand out.

@wb3904

21 күн бұрын

@@IanM-id8orto add on this, those waves mean less virtual particles pop into existence between the plates, than outside the plates. This is how I believe that there isn't negative energy, it's just that empty space isn't truely empty.

@Rothron

21 күн бұрын

The macroscopic metaphor for this is the way two boats will bump together when they're close. Because only small waves will fit between them.

@Syphirioth

20 күн бұрын

​​@@wb3904 Now imagine these plates in true empty space devoid of any gravity and em waves but the waves and gravity created by the 2 plates. You think they not gonna be attracted at even greater distance?

Vacuum fluctuations can be outwitted so easily? Would you contemplate to tell us the arguments?

@bjornfeuerbacher5514

22 күн бұрын

What do you mean with "outwitted"?

@Thomas-gk42

22 күн бұрын

@@bjornfeuerbacher5514 Well, it´s a really simple experiment and can change such a fundamental property like the vacuum density?

@SabineHossenfelder

22 күн бұрын

The arguments about the Casimir effect? There are several. One is whether it's actually a quantum field theory effect or not. Another one is whether this negative energy is real, or whether that's some sort of mathematical artefact. The third one is whether, if it's real, that negative energy would anti-gravitate.

@bjornfeuerbacher5514

22 күн бұрын

@@Thomas-gk42 Yes. The important term here is "boundary conditions".

@Thomas-gk42

22 күн бұрын

@@SabineHossenfelder thank you 😊

As a molecular biologist, I wonder if it is something analogous to the Van der Waals forces.

Oh, and more proof EVERYTHING is shrinking all the time but denser stuff shrinks a little bit less!😅

@jjcale2288

17 күн бұрын

And there goes my beloved Big Bang theory down on the drain...

"Negative" is _relative._

@isonlynameleft

13 күн бұрын

Yeah you're never going to have an instrument come back and say it measured "negative energy". I think this is just illustrating that we don't understand the vacuum very well.

What's the difference between the Casimir effect and London Dispersion forces?

There's a guy that invented a theory of inertia based on this effect. Pretty interesting.

Maybe he’ll figure out the Casimir effect!

Thanks.

If there is negative energy, then there must be negative mass.

It seems obvious but to investigate further put a third plate between them and see how the force acts.

Negative energy? It is spite helding them together

I think magnetic waves pass more easily through metal. They can alter the magnetic wave pattern. Maybe it has something to do with atom alignment or magnets.

- Virtual particles push against the plates towards the gap. (?)

Virtual particles?

I heard from guy at the pizza shop; It correlates to magnetism. The "pressure" is the differential of compressed spacetime between the plates. As the plates get closer the space and time between the pates is reduced relative to the outside of the plates.

@dananorth895

17 күн бұрын

That wasn't the same guy who wrote his dissertation on "the thermodynamics of pizza" was it?

Plates are picking up em field from cosmic rays.

Uncharged? Each plate will have its own total inherent electric charge due to impurities so the attraction is simple electric interaction.

Two ships which are closely moored will drift even closer because of the action of waves in the water.

@markdowning7959

17 күн бұрын

I think that's the Bernoulli effect, lower pressure between the ships due to the faster current there. I don't think that's relevant here because there is no fluid flow.

Time to build plates out of graphene sheets then

I can generate more negative energy than that, and I can store it. You will never know how close and far this is to something usable out of this effect.

Potential energy of an attractive force is always negative.

It would be nice to see a comment on Casimir v.s. Van der Waal effects ... i mean we know what the common explanations to the respective effects are but ...we don't have a real, deep "Sabinsplanation"

This sounds like an engineering problem not a physics problem

Matter posits itself.

It is Bernoulli effect, only in vacuum

Use the negative energy to make negative mass, and we'll have all we need to get in that warm hole

@jjcale2288

17 күн бұрын

Yes indeed! Warm holes are good!

Size of the air molecules I meant

I don’t know anything, but the affect of the physical objects on spacetime, wouldn’t the concept suggest that something like a Casimir “attraction” would have to exist at some scale?

it is a form of vdw force at play, the evidence for vacuum fluctuations beeing the cause is dubious at best since it doesmt even have a real derivation unlike the explaination via vdw

paper can sometimes glide off a desk when they happen to catch a prefect air cushion. So yeah I guess the plates could in theory fly up! Einstein would probably say something like, if there is a force we can measure, but not identify, then it must be a force that hasn't been identified... Maybe XD

Now make an engine from it.

Well, it's definitely originating from the time that Philips was more than just a bunch of factories, the theory was born there.. (Natuurkundig Laboratorium der N. V. Philips' Gloeilampenfabrieken, Eindhoven, Netherlands ;)

I'm interested if the Casimir Effect will cause two conductive meshes with gap sizes

Could it be gravity?

@Ray_of_Light62

22 күн бұрын

Doesn't work if the plates are made of non-conductive plastic. Therefore no, it isn't gravity.

@SabineHossenfelder

22 күн бұрын

No, for one thing, the calculation has nothing to do with gravity. But maybe more confusingly, whether the force is attractive or repulsive depends on the geometry. Eg, for a sphere it would be repulsive.Also, on the more practical side, people are actually using the Casmir Effect to *measure* gravity! (By balancing the forces.

Sabine might make a good ventriloquist

I've seen an experiment where two dense objects are left on a frictionless pivot and their gravitational attraction slowly pulls them together over a period of days. Don't plates have a natural gravitational attraction?

Ok here is a very off the charts idea. I have always wondered that the "Expansion of the Universe" is dependent on the mass of the object/area modifies the expansion rate....more mass=greater expansion per unit time. If this is reality then the mass of the vacuum between the plates would be less than the mass of the vacuum outside the plates thereby having the universal expansion between the plates being less and to us that would look like the plates are being pushed together

I’ve heard of “there is no free lunch” in terms of energy, but negative lunch? 😉

I have wondered if the Casimir effect is due to a weak capacitive coupling induced by charge fluctuations in either one of the plates. 🤔

Is it really negative, or is it just less positive than the surrounding vacuum?

@ianstopher9111

22 күн бұрын

My own take is it is the latter. Like potentials, it is the relative difference that is important. The kicker though is that this energy density should contribute to the stress-energy tensor in GR. Hence, at what point is the vacuum not contributing a positive value to the stress-energy tensor. That is why Sabine has sleepless nights wondering how modified the vacuum must be before antigravity becomes a thing or not.

How thin can we make the plates? At some point, deforming metal into a foil results in something too flimsy to be a plate. Can we reinforce the plate somehow? A truss design out of nano-tubes? Maybe need a vaccuum, as air molecules or dust might puncture the foil. Thus a bottom limit of thickness is that if we need to test pressure differences, then ambient pressure can't break the foil. idk.

@Darisiabgal7573

22 күн бұрын

We can make foils as thin as a single gold atom, though they would need to be thicker. In theory we can make graphene sheets one carbon atom thick much stronger than gold, and you could put tensions on the side and release any charges. So you could have a graphene sheet held on opposing sides juxtaposes to another sheet held orthogonally oriented to the first by two opposing sides. If you made a large container at say earth sun L2 then you can remove differential gravity, you could get the plates close. But graphene sheets, despite their large area are quantum structures, I should clarify, there are molecular orbitals on graphene which have wave like properties that cover a significant area of the sheet. So for instances at small distances (2 cm) graphene acts as a superconductor. Thus there is quantum uncertainty, a rather lot, about the position of electrons on the graphene sheet (or even if they are on the graphene sheet, but that’s another issue). So you still have to maintain a statistical distance between the sheets. Also Aromatic rings like to stack, right, they are wave functions, so the problem if you get the electrons close enough to resonate the sheets might just collapse. I’m not sure what happens in a vacuum, but in water they like to stack.

How did Mr. Casimir predict it? There had to be a theory to predict it.

If the gravity would be weak enough one plate could be pulled up by another. The energy for putting it down again needs to come from somewhere. I heard many fun stories about how useful this effect could be to get free energy. But it's not useful for that. The plates attract each other until they collide and you need to put the energy back in to divide those plates.

Vacuum has pressure?! I am in need of enlightenment.

Everyone knows it's virtual practicals 😪