Back in 2022 when btc was at its cycle low, people where saying btc is done for it's going below $15k US it's going to zero. Well it's down 10% from mid March ath 2024 and now everyone is shitting themselves. That doesn't make any logical sense especially for crypto.Its just a shake out phase, chill people go zoom out at old charts. We are at around 1.4 trillion market cap and only growing, just wait and see the price next year in March it will double....I've been engaged in active trading and managed to grow a nest egg of around 2.3Bitcoin to a decent 24Bitcoin....I'm especially grateful to Craig Reeder, whose deep expertise and traditional trading acumen have been invaluable in this challenging, ever-evolving financial landscape.

@JoshuaK.Coble22

3 күн бұрын

He's mostly on Telegrams, using the user name

@JoshuaK.Coble22

3 күн бұрын

CraigReeder That's his username.

@ScottWeir736

3 күн бұрын

Productivity is never accidental; it is always the result of careful planning, dedication, and consistency.

@WindowsucTung

3 күн бұрын

Thanks for keeping it light and real at the same time. Much needed for us traders in times like these!

@DucTung-go4uw

3 күн бұрын

I read about him too on website . That is how I get connected to him. Thanks for putting this down here 💃

I loved that the video attracted the famed crypto bot shillers and their fake threads.

@andyham9592

17 күн бұрын

What you havent invested in AMS64K yet? And by invested I mean googled it and followed a link to what looks like a trading site, but is actually a phishing site that will outright abuse any information you put in, and take ownership of any money/crypto you transfer there.

@worldspam5682

17 күн бұрын

Literally Russian bots, but in this particular example they seem to originate from India

@tombolo4120

17 күн бұрын

You nailed it! ツ

@ciao934

17 күн бұрын

they spend resources where the value is found, that's not surprising. what's surprising is youtube allowing it ! something to think about :P

@Duke_Romilar_III

17 күн бұрын

@@ciao934 just now finding out how biased stalintoob is? Wouldn't surprise me if these pests were their staff.

Hey Sabina. Seems like you forgot to mention that ASICs becoming more energy efficient doesn't really reduce electricity consumption at all, because when most miners get better hardware, difficulty increases. No matter how fast and energy efficient the chips are, the algorithm will keep increasing the difficulty, so that no more than 1 block is produced per 10 minutes on average. If chips get twice as efficient, the difficulty also increases 2x, so they end up consuming the same amount of energy per block.

@paulomannheim

14 күн бұрын

You're confusing energy efficiency with time efficiency. It might be possible to get chips to execute the same amount of instructions per second, but with less energy consumption.

@zlatkojovicic6133

14 күн бұрын

@@paulomannheim It's true but irrelevant for the topic. The topic is about environmental impact of bitcoin. More efficient chips don't make bitcoin more environmentally friendly, because when chips get more efficient on average, the difficulty increases, so they have to process MORE instructions then before in order to get same rewards in bitcoin. The algorithm is made in such a way, that the difficulty (the number of instructions you need to process) increases proportionally to the average chip efficiency.

@paulomannheim

13 күн бұрын

@@zlatkojovicic6133 Are you saying that chips that process the same amount of data in a certain time, but with less power consumption, aren't more efficient? 🤔 My understanding is that yes, they are more efficient and this is indeed relevant to the topic.

@zlatkojovicic6133

13 күн бұрын

If they process the same amount of data in certain time, and just spend less electricity to do the same job, then they are indeed, more efficient. But in this case the miners will be incentivized to buy more of these chips, so that they can earn even more bitcoin. The lion's share of miner's expenditures is on electricity. So if a chip spends twice as little electricity to do the same job, miners will likely buy 2 such chips so that they can do twice as much work, for the same amount of electricity consumed. And when that happens on a scale, you get massive increase in competitiveness of the network, and then the algorithm has to increase the difficulty, in order to keep the steady pace of new block creation, one every 10 minutes. So it's not about efficiency of chips. It's about incentives and the competitive nature of the whole endeavor of mining bitcoin. These incentives push miners to use as much electricity as they can afford on best hardware they can afford in order to get as much bitcoin as possible and in order to stay competitive.

@paulomannheim

13 күн бұрын

@@zlatkojovicic6133 I see, it makes sense. But only if it is possible to acquire the chips in the first place.

Correction from 6:41 onwards: efficiency gains in mining *don’t* have much impact on energy consumption. As we build more powerful computers, mining automatically becomes harder. So energy consumption is roughly determined by the value of a block reward, not by the technology used for mining. This is an example of the fallacy of “costs determine prices” when the causal pathway is in fact the reverse.

@stuartreynolds9297

16 күн бұрын

100%. But try explaining that to the Bitcoin bulls... "You just don't understand it!" LOL

@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting

16 күн бұрын

"Costs determine prices" is not always a fallacy. Only the generalisation that it is either always true or always false is the fallacy. For example, no sane human being can be expected to work for wages that will leave them homeless or hungry. The cost of living (i.e. the cost of essential goods & services necessary for life such as food, water, and housing) dictate the minimum price of labour. If that price gets too high, a country is "priced out of the market" at least so far as secondary industries are concerned. That doesn't change the price because people still need a roof over their head and food to eat or there's no point working. By extension. that cost is passed on and, if legislators and government officials have been busy profiteering off looking the other way while property investors play the bubble game, goodbye economy and hello banana republic.

@MatthewElvey

16 күн бұрын

Sabine way outside her wheelhouse, AGAIN. She needs to stick to her area of expertise. She's got little credibility left. None when she's out on a limb again like this, as far as I'm concerned.

@SloppyJoe413

16 күн бұрын

Yep. Bitcoin's proof of work is basically a zero-sum competition to see who can spend the most electricity doing intentionally useless work and so get the block reward (the mined coins). It creates a literally endless incentive to waste as much electricity as there's available in world for cheap enough. If today Bitcoin mining consumes 100 TWh, and tomorrow someone invents nuclear fusion and 1000x's the world's energy production, then pretty soon Bitcoin mining will consume 1000000 TWh while the amount of Bitcoins circulating and mining profitability will remain the same. It's annoying that this seems to be hard to understand for most people, even a physicist like Sabine misses it.

@SloppyJoe413

16 күн бұрын

Yep. Bitcoin's proof of work is basically a zero-sum competition to see who can spend the most electricity doing intentionally useless work and so get the block reward (the mined coins). It creates a literally endless incentive to waste as much electricity as there's available in world for cheap enough. If today mining consumes 100 TW, and tomorrow someone invents nuclear fusion power and 1000x's the world's energy production, then pretty soon Bitcoin mining will consime 1000000 TW while the amount of coins circulating and mining profitability will remain the same as they would have been without the fusion. Annoying that this seems to be hard to understand for most people, even a physicist like Sabine misses it.

I looked in my freezer for proof of steak and saw none there. :(

@robertjenkins6132

17 күн бұрын

Ha! I ❤ dumb puns 🤣

@MrStevos

17 күн бұрын

Veggie Eh ?

@MNbenMN

17 күн бұрын

I was chicken my freezer, too, only found pepperoni :(

@mCblue79

17 күн бұрын

I just got home and found no proof of work from my kids either

@gammaraygem

17 күн бұрын

I saw the movie Dune and found evidence of global worming.

It's amazing how bots invade the comments section as soon as anything crypto related is discussed -.- fucking irritating.

@Jack-gn4gl

17 күн бұрын

Yep

@robbatayaki5505

17 күн бұрын

it is incredible that a company like KZread is incapable of seeing and blocking them as I can see them with my naked eyes LOL

@Puppetmaster2005

17 күн бұрын

@@robbatayaki5505 I think it's like trying to eradicate cockroaches from the world. It is literally impossible lol.

@BionicRusty

17 күн бұрын

Yep 👍

@monkeysezbegood

17 күн бұрын

Tells you how scammy the whole industry is.

Interesting Bitcoin summary. However, your thinking is off in one particular instance. The efficiency of bitcoin is completely irrelevant, as the algorithm only allows for 1 block every 10 minutes on average. So the only thing relevant is how much worth in resources you're willing to throw at it (mining). If you get more "efficient", the only thing that does is increase the difficulty for everyone, including you.

@onebronx

5 күн бұрын

Nothig is off. Energy efficiency is a hashrate per watt of energy, and your hashrate defines a probability of winning the next block. If you have a more energy efficient farm, you increase the rate of blocks you win (or decrease your expenses per block), thus increasing your profit. Increasing difficulty incentivises you to constantly think about increasing the energy efficiency to keep the farm profitable, because others do the same.

@TomRauhe

5 күн бұрын

@@onebronx she is talking about the energy efficiency as a whole, not for an individual miner. It will always be one block per 10 minutes. Energy efficiency is totally irrelevant for the grand picture.

@onebronx

5 күн бұрын

@@TomRauhe you mixing energy efficiency with total energy consumption. The total consumption -- yes, it does not change with increased efficiency, and rather grows. The share of energy consumption for cryptomining in the overall consumption just reflects the [perceived] utility of cryptocurrencies relative to [perceivied] utilitiy of everything else, by the market rules. But the energy efficiency of hardware increases, and crypto incentivises it probably even better than the next best incentive -- sex and pron. This makes ripples on other sectors: cheaper and more efficient processors, GPUs, memory (there are coins using available memory as a proof) and any other resource that was/is/wii be ever used for staking/proofing.

@TomRauhe

4 күн бұрын

@@onebronx I am pretty sure it's the other way around as it always has been. Computers get more efficient anyways. That's as old as Moore's law from 1965! No one needs or needed crypto Incentives here.

@onebronx

4 күн бұрын

@@TomRauhe Is it not a matter of questioning "do we need this incentive or not", it is a simple fact "people hype and pay huge money for this, so we have the incentive, whether we need it or not".

I think an important part often missed is, that Bitcoin mining creates a huge demand for those ASIC miners, which have no other useful application and create insane amounts of electronic waste.

@dizont

16 күн бұрын

Does it make more electronic waste than a smartphone? If so, how come?

@glenw3814

15 күн бұрын

It seems to me that borderless, uncensorable, unconfiscatable self-custody money on an incorruptible decentralized ledger is far more useful than nearly any other use of electronics. If you don't understand this then you don't understand the nature of money.

@Unasinni

15 күн бұрын

@@glenw3814 I would agree with that statement, I would not agree that Bitcoin fulfills a sufficient amount of the mentioned points. And I would further point out that any technology that achieves the same with less electronic waste would be highly preferred.

@thesenamesaretaken

14 күн бұрын

​@@glenw3814what do you mean by "unconfiscatable"? If government agents held me at gunpoint my bitcoin would be no safer than my gold.

@GillesLouisReneDeleuze

14 күн бұрын

@@glenw3814 Exactly! That's why we need privacy-focused currencies and not Bitcoin.

There is something called the rebound effect. Improving efficiency hardly ever reduces energy consumption over all, because the savings are used elsewhere.

@Basement-Science

18 күн бұрын

yeah, in this case they are used to buy the exact amount of hardware necessary to get back to the original power consumption, because that's what economically makes sense.

@Aelcyx

18 күн бұрын

Is that the same as Jevons Paradox?

@sherlyn.a

18 күн бұрын

Like induced demand in traffic. Adding more lanes actually *increases* traffic

@Rubikorigami

17 күн бұрын

This ! This ! Important stuff to remember when thinking about questions of efficiency.

@metagen77

17 күн бұрын

Obviously, why wouldnt we use it elsewhere? I swear some people lol

The debate between proof of work and proof of stake is more nuanced than one requires less energy.

@mschwaller3371

15 күн бұрын

I was bit shocked Sabine would not explain this in greater detail, but then again politics and power games are maybe bit outside of the domain of physics ;-)

@michelprins

14 күн бұрын

Proof-of-Stake und Zentralisierung: Die Umstellung von Proof-of-Work (PoW) auf Proof-of-Stake (PoS) könnte Bitcoin anfällig für Zentralisierung machen. Der Vorschlag, die reichste Person Münzen wählen zu lassen statt PoW, kommt wahrscheinlich von einem Banker mit Eigeninteresse.

@2LegHumanist

Күн бұрын

Both are virtual ponzi schemes for idiots to feel rich between crashes.

'Anyone has access to energy can turn it into money' Certainly easier than having an industry and producing something useful to sell...

@MrHarumakiSensei

13 күн бұрын

People won't produce anything to sell if the money they get for the sale is inflated away.

@5280ryan

12 күн бұрын

What’s more “useful” than honest money? Did you know the British Pound was a pound of silver back in the day. Do u know how many pounds it takes to buy a pound of silver today?

@marrs1013

12 күн бұрын

@@5280ryan That is just not true. The pound sterling has nothing to do with a pound of silver. Just read a simple Wiki entry on the subject. Shame on you...

@marrs1013

12 күн бұрын

@@5280ryan What if the value of silver went down in the last 1500 years, and the current pound sterling has nothing to do with the value of silver?

Proof of Work does not mean that the number 'works'. It refers to the actual literal work put into the cryptographic problem. It is a feature, not a bug. Proof of Stake is antithetical to this notion.

@stuartreynolds9297

16 күн бұрын

You are right! PoW == Proof Of Waste That's what proof of work means.

@raphdroidt692

16 күн бұрын

Don't worry. Eventually everyone gets their BTC at the price they deserve...

@Sibshops

16 күн бұрын

@@raphdroidt692 But, don't we deserve better?

@kosdas

16 күн бұрын

@@Sibshops we already have what we deserve. I have Bitcoin.

@garethbarry3825

16 күн бұрын

I too have become convinced of Bitcoin. My sons, all of age 11, got me into it. Once i started reading, it made me realise what money actually is, what it was and should be still, and how central banking and inflation under fiat currency has completely messed up our societies. I could be wrong, but to the extent that i can be convinced by anything, i do think that Bitcoin answers so many problems brought about by Keynsian so called 'economics.'

Yet another great explanation of a topic that is barely- or mis-understood by most of us. However, your description of "proof of work" seems a bit off. It is not demonstrating that the large number solution "works", but that you have "put in the work" to find it (once found, it is easy to demonstrate that it works). This means that you have demonstrated your effort in obtaining it. The "proof of stake" replaces the proof of work with a demonstration that you have "skin in the game", and are not a casual miner with little at risk. At least this is my current understanding of these two crypto currency methods.

@SabineHossenfelder

18 күн бұрын

Sorry, I see now that there are two different ways to understand "proof of work". I didn't mean to say that the phrase refers to proving that the number works. It's rather that you check that the number works and that proves you did the work for obtaining the number.

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

@@SabineHossenfelder it would have been nice to note that btc is now one of the 20 most precious commodities in the world, etfs were approved worldwide for btc and ethereum and that most miners use green energy. Nonetheless it is also known that the mempool and the miner monopoly in btc is a huge problem, which is why true crypto natives nowadays prefer ethereum and its financial model, including its capacities to code on it pretty much anything. Plus it scales though zk math/forms of cryptography

@The_ABG

18 күн бұрын

It is important to understand that the algorithm isn't meant to be 'efficient'. The point is that anyone who wants to mine is forced to provide energy. This prevents any individual or country from dominating and attacking the network without throwing massive amounts of energy at it. Proof of stake would just allow the biggest holders to collude and control.

@BarbiesBoyfriend93

18 күн бұрын

The underlying pinpoint did not get in there. The pow is also used to secure the network in the most challenging way that you *Need* to be more efficient over time or you loose relative rewards. That's secures the network in orders of magnitude better then POS. There are also additional economic and game theory reasons why PoS does not work in the long run. The real question here is.. is Bitcoin worth enough for humanity that it even consumes energy. The answer in my opinion is.. fucking yes.

@realryder2626

18 күн бұрын

​@@SabineHossenfelderAfter the recent halvening, inefficient miners have shut down operations. There's more to it than you might think you understand. Bitcoin is basically like gold, in the way it backs many other currencies. Bitcoin, unlike fiat cash, has a finite supply.

1:52 - The calculations don't REQUIRE that much energy. It's setup so that the difficulty adjusts based on how much computing power the entire system throws at it. For an instance, the system would work just fine with 10 miners or a million, paying out the same total of coins each day. The reason it's using so much energy is because people consider it profitable. If the price was lower, fewer would be incentivized to run it.

@benjamindees

17 күн бұрын

You will never get a response to this, for reasons that should be obvious.

@GhettoFabulousLorch

17 күн бұрын

The end goal of Bitcoin is to be able to transfer wealth from one source to another and have final settlement in ~10 minutes. That's really all that a common user needs to understand. However, it is an iceberg of technological innovation and implementation that takes time to properly correlate all of its components. Unfortunately, people who question Bitcoin rarely also question any other system of money. It's not enough to analyze Bitcoin for critique and assessment. It needs to be compared to other systems because it was created as an alternative.

@shadquirk607

17 күн бұрын

@@GhettoFabulousLorch 'unfortunately, people who question Bitcoin rarely also question any other system of money. It's not enough to analyze Bitcoin for critique and assessment. It needs to be compared to other systems because it was created as an alternative.' I don't think you understand what analyze means, you do not need to investigate the social impact of knives when discussing the social impact of guns, for example. It's an intellectual fallacy to expect that an analysis of a system is required to balance that system against another to be valid. Maybe you should go back to school.

@jackcrook4435

17 күн бұрын

@@shadquirk607 Not when the whole creation of bitcoin was made to address the problems of soft, fiat currencies and inflation. Hyperinflation may not mean much to you, but it means a lot to people that live through it. And all currencies are on that trajectory. Do you feel the impacts of inflation after covid? Would you prefer a world where the money cant be debased? Because some would prefer that, bitcoiners even.

@shadquirk607

17 күн бұрын

@@jackcrook4435 again, that is not a valid system of analysis. The negative impact of hyperinflation on fiat currencies has nothing to do with an individual, separate investigation of digital currencies. You can absolutely balance the negative/positive aspects of a given system against another, but you absolutely do not have to for validation. Unfortunately the vast majority of people championing digital currencies have little to no understanding of economics, which leads to a flood of misinformation.

"Wasting energy more efficiently" is so poetic and sums cryptos up perfectly

@TheEarlVix

17 күн бұрын

Hear, hear!

@hnhl2770

17 күн бұрын

That's because you lack even the most basic understanding about what Bitcoin does and how it works. Your lack of education is a you problem, not a Bitcoin problem.

@TheEarlVix

17 күн бұрын

@@hnhl2770 You sound like a character out of the Angry Birds game.

@hnhl2770

17 күн бұрын

@@TheEarlVix As I just said, your lack of education is a you problem, not a Bitcoin problem.

@butchphillips873

17 күн бұрын

@@hnhl2770 How uneducated is LAlaker007?

A pretty good run down. Unfortunately, when it comes to manipulation and attack vectors, Proof of Stake is significantly less secure than the more energy demanding Proof of Work system.

@Lurker-dk8jk

17 күн бұрын

Add to that, the whole "decentralized" argument flies out the window when a consensus of the largest stakeholders decide everything.

@interwebologies

17 күн бұрын

@@Lurker-dk8jk Which essentially mirrors how correspondent banking --- the apparatus backing all of today's global finance --- works.

@liminal6823

16 күн бұрын

PoW relies upon concentrations of industrial-level power. Apart from the threat of attack by governments who control access to this power, it's a vastly larger attack surface than an orders of magnitude wider distribution of validators on a decentralized information network.

Roger Ver is a Bitcoin Cash proponent, don’t use him as a Bitcoin reference 🤦‍♂️

@iras66

17 күн бұрын

Actually I think he is the one who did the most to destroy it, so yeah.

@arfarf152

17 күн бұрын

@@iras66 to destroy what?

@iras66

17 күн бұрын

@@arfarf152 Bitcoin.

@davidsparks1181

17 күн бұрын

Yes, Roger lost his mind years ago

@tonioinverness

16 күн бұрын

Sabine is intelligent, well-meaning, and fair. And even she made this mistake that no one "inside" the bitcoin bubble would make. It just goes to show you how much education of normies remains to be done.

Proof of work provides stronger guarantees than proof of stake. With proof of work it is verifiably impossible to rewrite the ledger history such that in 1000 years they will know it has never been revised because it would require there to have been time to do all that work twice. With proof of stake it's possible for all the people with the majority of the stake to agree to rewrite the chain completely and they will leave no evidence of that (only looking at the chain itself).

@darrennew8211

18 күн бұрын

They already rewrote the chain completely for Etherium even with proof of work. Since there's nothing backing the value except the miners, it's not difficult if you get the miners to agree.

@fsmvda

18 күн бұрын

@@darrennew8211 of course you can actually start a new chain, we have lots. But it will not have 1000 years of history. You can tell how long the new chain existed by the cumulative work being less than the original. It leaves evidence.

@fsmvda

18 күн бұрын

@@darrennew8211 you're correct that it's possible to do short term rewrites of the tip because nobody will notice that you redid a small amount of work far in the future. I guess it's only a guarantee really for the longest existing chain and only about the more distant past or the chain not the more recent tip. Still stronger than PoS.

@darrennew8211

18 күн бұрын

@@fsmvda It doesn't really matter, if all the miners can get together and just say "Nope, we're going to pretend your transaction didn't happen after all." What are you going to do about it when that happens? The Etherium rewrite wasn't a short-term rewrite.

@Jp-ue8xz

18 күн бұрын

@@darrennew8211 the point is PoW is inherently safer. period. And even if someone hogged 50%+1 network hashrate and were able to forge a transacction (time by which the descentralization of any given crypto would be absolutely out of the window); everyone else would immediately notice it and be able to fork off

I know this is a science commutation channel and not an economics or personal finance channel but I feel the need to mention the desire to protect one’s saving a from inflation is a motivation here too

Even if Bitcoin mining was using 100% green energy, that would be energy that is displaced from other uses.

15 күн бұрын

That doesn't make sense economically.

@fathert

15 күн бұрын

Not true and that's addressed in the video as well. Some abundant sources of energy are not within a practical distance of an existing grid so can't be used for anything else.

@klauskarpfen9039

12 күн бұрын

@@fathert Some (!!!) abundant souces of energy, some of which aren't even "green " energy! You could literally mine for oil and gas in antarctica and "burn" it on site to get rich with bitcoin mining.

@klauskarpfen9039

12 күн бұрын

B ut ot sure makes sense to sell energy to bitcoin miners for 10 cents per kWh when an aluminum smelter or fertilizer producer pays only half as much! Divide the price for mining one coin by the amount of energy used for mining in 2021/2022

@nonchablunt

2 сағат бұрын

Yes. Like bankers flying private. But what you fail to grasp is that it puts the most powerful incentive on having more efficiant and sustainable energy as you can't be profitable if you do not constantly become more efficient. And that helps absolutely everyone as our only issue as a species is energy and overpopulation.

I think the argument that bitcoin mining encourages efficient energy production is completely silly. Since pretty much all sectors of our modern economy need energy as a factor of production anyway, we already have an incentive to make energy production more efficient. Now that I think about it, it appears to me that this argument is actually just a so-called "broken window fallacy". It completely misses the concept of opportunity cost. Even if the bitcoin network was powered purely by renewables, you have to realize that those same renewables could have also been build and used otherwise if the bitcoin network wasn't there in the first place. It's like saying we should throw more garbage into the oceans to incentivise making garbage collection more efficient. It's simply bad economics.

@henrythegreatamerican8136

18 күн бұрын

I keep it simple. When it comes to digital coins, I think they are all garbage. Until you start seeing your average Joe neighbor using digital coins in his everyday life, DO NOT BOTHER with any of them. You will not become rich trading them. They are not a good long term asset to hold for retirement because their value is only based on buying and selling them.

@its4you984

18 күн бұрын

there really is so much waste renewable energies. Midday we produce too much solar energy, in the night Texas produces too much wind energy and so on. Bitcoin is perfect for that energy. Hold your seat: the european union PAYS renewable companies for wasted energy they COULDN'T sell. So that they stay somehow profitable. They waste my taxes to pay for wasted energy no one could use. This is bananas. So put a miner there when there is too much energy, since they are very mobile, and the mining company will at leaste pay 2-3 Cent per kwh. And because the miner can not pay 30 or 40 Cent per kwh those miners do not take away ANY energy which could have been used differently.

@RichardPhillips1066

18 күн бұрын

It's obvious cope

@LukeTramps

18 күн бұрын

It's not a broken window fallacy. She made pretty clear, that a lot of that energy is not used for anything, thus it makes sense to put that energy into bitcoin from an economic standpoint, specifically because there is no cost of opportunity - as the energy is already produced, but not used. She also explained how it leads to energy production in places where it's needed, but where it wouldn't be economically viable without the revenue from mining, improving the lives real people. Finally, "we" don't decide where to produce power; economic incentive does, because someone has to pay for it's labor and material.

@TheUrbanSpartacuz

18 күн бұрын

Bitcoin incentivizes efficient energy consumption AND production. If you have a money printer, that doesn't cause inflation, and your only cost to print money is the price of electricity you pay for it, it doesn't make sense to make the machine that prints it as efficient as possible, in the places that don't have the benefit of cheap electricity production? And the source of power as efficient as well? In a perfect world, the obvious choice would be nuclear power, not only for Bitcoin but for everything else. But we do no live in a perfect world. Also your argument of the energy could have been used elsewhere was explained by Sabine. There are currently forms of energy that are going to waste, renewable and fossil alike, but it is not economically viable to use it. Unless an economic incentive is provided it just goes to waste, like it has been. Bitcoin provides that incentive, where there is none. Personally, I prefer the energy go to Bitcoin than let's say advertising for example. How much energy is wasted in pointless ads that all they do is promote endless consumerism? Could also help solve that garbage problem you pointed out.

Calculations that waste energy as a mechanism to put value into crypto set me off on day one. It always comes down to wasted energy and short sightedness.

@VivekNa

17 күн бұрын

What does the US military do? It wastes energy to keep the idea of the US dollar valid and valuable. What happened to the East German Mark back in the day? It turned into paper.

@moneybadger420

17 күн бұрын

Nobody invented nothing better yet to remove the master (bank/government) from the equation yet. Today's banking mechanisms don't need to do proof of work, cause you trust your masters. And you trusting your overlords is short sighted.

@C3johnson3

17 күн бұрын

You must absolutely despise AI and videogames, then. The amount of energy used to train LLMs and other types of machine learning every year is astronomical.

@RickLaBanca

17 күн бұрын

@@C3johnson3 those achieve an output. Guessing hashes is just waste. Someone smart could make ai llm processing also be used for mining would be genius!!

@hajostork9351

17 күн бұрын

that why i love nuclear energy so much: it's both clean and cheap, so we can "waste" it on whatever we want - even on decentralised hard money that governments can't inflate.

proof of stake favor the players with a big amount to put to stake. Manipulation is easier under proof of stake. Could you compare how much energy the banking sector use? How much gold? I'd argue that the biggest use case of bitcoin is a store value object with high salability properties.

@benjaminsandeen9241

13 күн бұрын

My numbers might be off here a bit, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that, for example, a credit card transaction uses something like 5,000-10,000 times less energy than a bitcoin transaction

As someone deeply familiar with the matter (working in it professionally), big kudos for getting almost all nuances exactly right, and simply not jumping to any hysterical conclusions. Two things I'd like to add: Proof of Stake simply has inferior game theory properties, which means it (at least in theory) can fail over time due to participants playing politics and other games like it. In Bitcoiner's minds it simply will not work as a base for a lasting global monetary system. Moreover it has a terrible property of basically printing more money for people who already have most money in the system (sounds familiar?). In PoW no one gets money for free, ever. Also at some point it was said that "miners needs to get twice as efficient every 4 years". That's not the case. There is nothing forcing miners to become more efficient. They do only because of the competition.

@erwile

16 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment. The first part is really interesting. But the second one, I'm a bit confused. If I understood correctly, If there is 2 times less reward for the same compute, the minimum efficiency needed should be halved ? Like you have the cost of your energy bill and your hardware. So if your hardware cost $2 to mine $3, when it halves, you have to improve your efficiency (cooling/gpu...) to remain profitable, because now it costs you $2 to generate $1.5. Something is wrong here ?

@viktorbajo4382

16 күн бұрын

@@erwile There are more factors, some miners disconnect after halving (not profitable anymore for those with high expenses), which means the network gets less complex and you need less energy. Another big factor is price, your mining reward can be 1,5$ or 3$ depending on dollar price of BTC. Also reward for mining block is just a part of BTC miners get, there are also transaction fees which don't change with halving. These fees will also keep mining BTC (securing the network) profitable after reward for a new block drops to (near) zero. But your point is still valid, it is a pressure on miners to get more efficent to stay in competitive, just not simply ''2x every 4 years or u done''

@erwile

16 күн бұрын

@@viktorbajo4382 yeah thanks for adding some nuances and complexity to it! It's a trend, not a direct proportional link

@dizont

16 күн бұрын

But Bitcoin can eventually run out, is it so? What happens then?

15 күн бұрын

Oh, hey DPC! 😅 I agree, good video all things considered.

The energy requirement for bitcoin mining is a feature, not a bug. Why hasn't everybody switched to holding a "proof of stake" coin? Is it because we want to "waste" energy? The proof of work chain cannot be faked, except with an equivalent amount of total energy that it took to build it in the first place. Here's a more useful metaphor to help you think about this: Instead of thinking of bitcoins being mined, think of a chain being _built_ and the security of the ledger that the chain represents is directly proportional to the amount of energy that is being spent to continuously build it. So if you want a digital asset that is truly immune to manipulation, of course it's going to cost more energy than small nation states to maintain that independence. It is only a "waste" if you don't think the existence of such an asset is valuable.

@pawala7

18 күн бұрын

Which is also the main killer of the wide adoption of BTC. The more valuable it gets, the more incentive there is to gain majority mining power, the more major stakeholders need to compete and waste power to prevent the competition from gaining said control or even to gain it for themselves.

@VivekNa

17 күн бұрын

@@ceeap3680 The term "cryptocurrency" itself is a mis-categorization - there is "the most immutable ledger that ever exists" and "difficult to mutate ledgers". A coin is only as valuable as the effort it takes to forge it. All the dozens of random crypto coins are either flawed engineering, centralized ledgers or straight up scams. Bitcoin is not "the first cryptocurrency" or "the most successful crypto" anymore that gold is "the currently most valuable metal" - value is based on stock to flow ratios - how much of something exists versus how much of it is created/mined/found

@QuantumMarmalade

17 күн бұрын

Sabine is a moron

@FedericoTesta1

17 күн бұрын

May be we could mine gold, put it in a safe and print some money of the real value of gold.

@JeffCaplan313

17 күн бұрын

​@@pawala7 Sounds like what empires try to do.

Sure, and you could argue that if someone paid you to waste fresh water and flush it into the ocean that would indeed create incentives to produce fresh water more efficiently. We’d find all kinds of ways to produce and then waste fresh water.🤨 So it is with Bitcoin mining. Also, it’s not like incentives to improve energy production efficiency don’t exist in the absence of Bitcoin.

17 күн бұрын

Gavin Newsome is flushing all of Californias fresh water. He doesn't even need money or efficiency, just ideology.

@hnhl2770

17 күн бұрын

You lack even the most basic understanding about what Bitcoin does and how it works. Your lack of education is a you problem, not a Bitcoin problem.

@NeverGonaHappen

17 күн бұрын

@@hnhl2770 You are proof that we have the most educated idiots of all time.

@hnhl2770

17 күн бұрын

@@NeverGonaHappen As I just said, your lack of education is a you problem, not a Bitcoin problem.

@stuartreynolds9297

17 күн бұрын

@@hnhl2770 Sure. Attack the person, not the argument. You lack a basic education in argument.

There are many variants of proof of stake consensus algorithm, but in general the idea is this: you take the current distribution of existing funds between accounts that want to produce blocks (a.k.a. "mine" them, which is a terribly confusing name if you ask me). Then you choose one of the accounts at random, where the chance of each one being chosen is proportional to their stake. Then that account has the right to produce the next block. And whoever produces a block is allowed to add a little reward to their own account (which is meant to incentivise people to produce blocks in the first place). What's confusing about it?

A bitcoin isn't a number. A bitcoin isn't anything - rather, you have a ledger (blockchain) that details transactions in bitcoins. The number that's calculated during mining is needed to add a new entry to the ledger. Its purpose is to maintain the integrity of the ledger.

@Icarus169

16 күн бұрын

Don’t bother. This woman is not interested in doing thorough research into topics like this. She wants to make money with short little videos with lackluster effort put into them. Understanding bitcoin would require at least 40 hours for highly intelligent people. She probably put in about 4 or 5.

@littlered7820

Күн бұрын

@@Icarus169 Too true !

George Carlin noted that our farts get trapped in couch cusions - another opportunity!

@RegHoldsworth-ri7hh

18 күн бұрын

Nice idea, hope he didn't register this new hope for mankind. I'm gonna be rich and ethical.

@taonow369

18 күн бұрын

Until there released !

@wisdomleader85

17 күн бұрын

So that's where the energy comes from.... No wonder why I keep getting shocked when I move my bottom around on my cushion sometimes. On the other hand, that just makes me like my cushion even more. With great power, comes great....you know the rest.

@parkloqi

17 күн бұрын

Sounds like modern civilization: clinging to a pillow full of beer farts.

@TheEarlVix

17 күн бұрын

Sequestered farts. Now that's an innovative idea!

6:42 no, it means that half of the miners need to quit. the average power efficiency of the network doesn't matter because of the automatic difficulty adjustment. The mining network's revenue depends on the price and halving cycle, so if for example they earn 20 billion per year, then they will waste 19 billion per year worth of electricity and hardware, regardless of how efficient the hardware is.

@joeturner9692

18 күн бұрын

In other words, crypto mining needs to be regulated by the state.

@erkinalp

18 күн бұрын

However there is a maximum difficulty which can not be exceeded.

@gavinjenkins899

18 күн бұрын

@@joeturner9692 You can't regulate it by the state, it will just be forced to leave your state entirely and go even more to Iran or whatever instead (which already mines like 8% of bitcoin)

@gavinjenkins899

18 күн бұрын

@@erkinalp I've never heard of that, but if true, that's just a self-destruct mechanism that would destroy bitcoin, then. Once that gets hit, the effort to mine 51% of the blocks would plummet, making a 51% attack way more likely and security would vanish.

@VivekNa

17 күн бұрын

@@joeturner9692 So you want the state to tell people how they should use the energy they bought with their own money? Maybe you want to move to a country where the state tells people what to do, what to buy and so on?

Well analyzed as always. I've seen a lot of newbies enquire as to whether or not it is too late to buy assets especially BTC, ETH, litecoin and maybe XRP...most having the intention to hodl these assets. I would say we should prep for all scenarios as the market has always been unpredictable. So boring that new type of analyses are coming out monthly from all analysts and youtubers. I must say tradlng offers far more benefits than just holding, I will advice traders esp newbies to have orientation of trading before they get involved in it. I accept things are changing and have to be reconsidered by time.... but not just that fast like these analysts and youtubers are doing. I've managed to grow a nest egg of around 2.3B'tc to a decent 21B'tc in the space of a few months... I'm especially grateful to Ryan Kelly, whose deep expertise and traditional trading acumen have been invaluable in this challenging, ever-evolving financial landscape..

@EllyMandy

17 күн бұрын

He mostly interacts on Telegrams, using the user-name.

@EllyMandy

17 күн бұрын

@Kellyryann

@EllyMandy

17 күн бұрын

⬆⬆

@EllyMandy

17 күн бұрын

Yeah. Ryan Kelly signals and prediction are awesome. Actually I was skeptical at first lol, until I decided to try. It's huge returns is awesome! I can't say much

@AngieG.ONeill

17 күн бұрын

The same high-yield potential exists in both bullish and bearish situations; what matters is how information and technique are used. Not neglecting professional advice.

the concept of Proof of Work has nothing to do with "proof that a number works" - rather, it refers to proof that work was performed

@hnhl2770

17 күн бұрын

That right there is the summary of what an appallingly shoddy and terribly researched video Sabine has produced here. She lacks the most basic understanding about the topic, yet she presumes herself able to pontificate about it and give an opinion to tens of thousands of viewers.

@kebacek

17 күн бұрын

@@hnhl2770 exactly :-(. I really like Sabines videos and admittedly Bitcoin is a tricky subject. But seeing her talk about the one thing I understand makes me wonder how much misunderstaning could be in other topics outside her field she talks about...

@b33thr33kay

17 күн бұрын

This is not a significant error. She explained the concept well, even if the origin of the term "proof of work" is not exactly correct.

@josephfriedman9236

17 күн бұрын

@@b33thr33kay it's a hugely significant error

@zootsoot2006

16 күн бұрын

@@b33thr33kay 'This number has to properly fit with previously found numbers' - as far as I'm aware, this isn't true at all. The target number is a random number below a certain threshold, how low being set by the difficulty level.

You didn't mention that venting methane is even worse than flaring it (methane is far more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide). Meanwhile, my big concern about this "use cheap energy that can't be hooked to a grid for BTC" is that it's still fundamentally a waste of energy, with no true benefit other than the coins (the value of which could collapse tomorrow). Surely there must be things that can be done with cheap energy that have a tangible benefit?

@carlchristiansteglich-pete6409

11 күн бұрын

If there was better use of the energy, it would already be in place

If a person makes money in Bitcoin it is a good thing, when a person loses money in bitcoin it is a bad thing. The final balance sheet has yet to be written but I bet there will be winners who sold all of their bitcoin when it was high, and losers who bought high and did not sell. Usually in these scenarios the losers vastly outnumber the winners.

@BarbiesBoyfriend93

18 күн бұрын

Bitcoins half life is forever. Buy and don't sell and you won't loose... Until the dollar and the rest vanishes ofc

@anthonycarbone3826

18 күн бұрын

@@BarbiesBoyfriend93 All currencies are compared to other currencies. That means the dollar is compared to both the yen and the Euro. These currencies are manipulated to keep trade balances either in surplus or in deficit. If currencies go away then the world will implode with electricity and the internet in a very precarious state. Bitcoin is absolutely worthless without the internet and the ability to keep it worldwide. Now Gold and Silver will always have value but Bitcoin is worthless in a real Mad Max situation.

@RichardPhillips1066

18 күн бұрын

The whole industry is so infested with scammers, and hackers you need to be an expert to avoid problems

@paulgoogol2652

17 күн бұрын

Bitcoin sure is a good thing for scammers.

@zwerko

17 күн бұрын

@@anthonycarbone3826 Well, gold will always have value as a material, but if one day we find a way to lasso a golden asteroid in an economical way, or replicate it in an energy efficient way, thus removing the scarcity; or even better, we stop inflating its value via jewelry and as investment asset (the industry need/use is minuscule compared to it), it will also lose most of its value.

I think you get to heart of it in the closing remarks. It really comes down to what price you place on having a sound, hard, uninflatable bearer asset at the base of a monetary system. I believe that sound money is the base of civilisation, and thus it is incredibly valuable and worth the energy spend. Plenty of people won’t see it that way and will view proof of work as just a complete waste. Unfortunately proof of stake has too many centralisation trade offs. Thanks Sabine

@BigHotSauceBoss69

10 күн бұрын

bitcoin our new money YO

The crypto market has been unfavorable for months and I keep losing my money selling-off during dips, I'm very scared of holding right now,how do you guys still make so much….?

@chinyerejoseph8004

17 күн бұрын

VENTURING into the trading world without the help of a profesionals, trading and expecting profit is like turning water into wine you would need a miracle...

@chinyerejoseph8004

17 күн бұрын

Following you has been an amazing journey , you have shown me the best way to earn much better profits despite the bad economic situations, God bless you with more knowledge Catherine adriana...

@FavourGift-en6en

17 күн бұрын

Any info on how i can communicate with her, i'm new at this

@chinyerejoseph8004

17 күн бұрын

she's mostly on Telegrams, using the user name. ....

@chinyerejoseph8004

17 күн бұрын

@Catherine715a

Thank you for taking the time to do a cosidered video on this topic. All I would say is, a lot of alternative uses for "stranded energy" such as AI etc require high bandwidth, low latency, internet, where as the bitcoin protocol doesnt. Its designed so a location with very poor connection can still contribute to the network.

@SabineHossenfelder I love your videos and I rarely have the courage to disagree. However, I think that at least half of the arguments in this video are wrong: *Mining bitcoin does not create wealth, just as money printing does not. It merely redistributes existing wealth. *Society does not benefit from bitcoin mining (only the miners do). That's why the energy is wasted, even if it is green or unused. *Imagine a democracy where you need to dig holes and fill them up to be able to vote. Do you see the nonsense? People work, but the work is unnecessary! *If proof of work has to be used, let's do work that is beneficial, like training AI, not finding big numbers!

@xzan88

18 күн бұрын

society benefits from mining because it is the only known way to have a truly decentralized currency that cannot be inflated. digging holes and filing them up is not the only known way to have democracy.

@pgress1867

18 күн бұрын

couldn’t agree more

@Ni7ram

18 күн бұрын

it's not that simple. while training an AI seems like good idea, it becomes immensely more complex (to run, to check, and thus to trust the system). also it wouldnt be very clear what a "correct solution" is. instead.. we all know 2+2=4. no discussion about it.. thus we all agree and trust the system. about the energy, is not wasted.. thats precisely were part of the bitcoin value comes from. those energy bills are "stored" in its price. bitcoin is a very strange, but well thought, beautiful system.

@xzan88

18 күн бұрын

mining is the only known way to have a truly decentralized digital currency. digging holes and filling them up is not the only known way to have a democracy

@bobmcbobbington9220

18 күн бұрын

Good points. A video only 18 minutes long isn't going to point out how dumb crypto is.

The idea of Bitcoin is that it cannot be inflated (devalued) All other “cryptos” can and will be inflated sooner or later

A nice dip into a very complicated subject. The proof of work bit was wrong though

A nice objective explanation of it. Usually videos on crypto are either hating on it or scam attempt.

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

it was pretty flat tbh but im in the field since 8 years; cant expect this video to be detailed as it is for beginners.

@b.s.7693

18 күн бұрын

The point is that Bitcoin is just an object that some people use to enrich themselves. Nobody wants the coin itself, everyone just wants to sell it for real money after the value goes up and the loop starts again... Ad if somebody wants _really_ to pay by it, there's most likely some "special purpose" behind it.

@diadetediotedio6918

17 күн бұрын

@@b.s.7693 Yeah, there is, surviving in dictatorships and socialist countries with destroyed economies, this is the "special purpose".

@cwpv2477

17 күн бұрын

@@b.s.7693 l m a o

@cwpv2477

17 күн бұрын

@@b.s.7693 295 mil inflow from blackrock alone in few months n bro thinks its traded like a stock still. millions of people storing their wealth inaccessible for any entity but themselves and transportable over the whole planet with huge liq. if you search for app like utility, study ethereum

Your argument that a greater demand of energy speeds up effiency does not mean we need the bitcoin. There are a ton of other activities to use that energy in a more senseful way...

@dandare1001

17 күн бұрын

She didn't talk about whether we need Bitcoin. She was simply talking about it in relation to energy usage.

@diadetediotedio6918

17 күн бұрын

The bitcoin need is other, this is just a plus.

@magikavoncary

17 күн бұрын

Having a hard digital money (=bitcoin) that can't be debased or censored by governments, dictators or institutions is extremely senseful way. Also, others can use the energy if they want. It's just that bitcoin miners are incentivized to do so. One of many reasons bitcoin network is so incredbly amazing.

@therealjezzyc6209

17 күн бұрын

​@magikavoncary okay but how many people actually use Bitcoin for this purpose? There aren't a lot of places that accept Bitcoin so it isn't even a viable currency compared to cash or credit. So those particular benefits are so far non-existent. Keep in mind it's been over a decade since Bitcoin came out and they haven't made any strong ground on this front.

@magikavoncary

17 күн бұрын

@@therealjezzyc6209 Millions of people are using bitcoin as a store of value. We can't know for sure how many. I count as one:-) And sure, there aren't many places accepting bitcoin now but that's not important. What's important is the trend, not the current state. Also, people don't need to spend bitcoin. It's better to get rid of fiat and stack bitcoin. It's so much more scarce and very probably going up in dollar value. Or more precisely - dollar and other fiat currencies are losing value against bitcoin.

Well.... I still don't understand what bitcoin is and how we "mine" it - and why it then has 'value.' but NOW I don't understand it in a much clearer way. Thanks for posting... I may actually have absorbed some of this. ;-)...

The main thing that Sabina did not clearly express: Crypto-Mining slows down the development of electricity delivery. And how she previously voiced this main problem of the transition of “normal” consumers to green energy with zero emissions.

Why aren't the calculations run for mining useful in their own right? Make the mining action actually useful work for the computations like running fusion reactor simulations or something.

@CrypticHashing

18 күн бұрын

The calculations themselves serve the purpose of validating transactions on the network and increasing it's security. There is some research being done on how to somewhat "parallelize" this, but it isn't easy, PoUW on Flux being an attempt. The main issue lies in the decentralization of the network. You don't know what devices people are using to mine, you don't know when or if the work they will be doing will ever get done, and they might be on the other side of the world or on a remote area with a very high latency connection. In many cases there's not much else that's useful that you can do with the energy, that's why most oil companies decide to flare and pay millions in fines, instead of using the energy.

@AnotherVoiceless

18 күн бұрын

That's called Proof of Useful Work. Ergo does it.

@VolkerThebrathGuitar

18 күн бұрын

The work has to be wasted, by priciple. If the result of the calculation would be worth something, that would mean, that someone could try to fake a blockchain and not risking something.

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

yea and they are tha basis for the security of the commodity but this is complicated to understand for ppl outside of finance often

@mbican

18 күн бұрын

Because then it wouldn't be useful to provide consensus on the state of the bitcoin network. Just because you don't find bitcoin consensus useful doesn't mean that a lot of people are willing to pay million dollars in fees to use it

I can't tell you how nice it is to hear someone intelligent talk.

@chris5942

18 күн бұрын

Straight informative talk is as rare as hen teeth these days.

@sdrtcacgnrjrc

18 күн бұрын

As opposed to Artificial

@TheCosmicThrust

17 күн бұрын

Fr, it irks me that when everyone thinks of blockchain and NFTs, they think of digital art scams. kind of a sad misunderstanding of the technology.

@nosuchthing8

17 күн бұрын

So rare

@nosuchthing8

17 күн бұрын

​@@sdrtcacgnrjrcthat's what no one has considered. What if we are inundated by AI voices, entities much smarter than us, they could destroy us by persuading everyone to do dangerous things. No war required.

I agree that in most cases the energy used in proof of work crypto mining would be better used elsewhere but there are instances where the waste from the process (heat) is used to heat homes and municipal buildings in very cold environments.

14:43 one other point is that all the proof of work makes the network more secure

More efficient energy production is maybe good if constrained. But more efficient computation doesn't matter to anyone except, for a while, to those miners who implement the more efficient computation before others. Given the same energy availability, the miners with computational edge will take more profits than the miners using old techniques, but the system automatically adapts so that once everyone switches to the new technique, nobody is better off anymore. They all get the same number of bitcoins per unit of energy as before. It's a classic arms race, everyone loses. In theory, everyone would be better off if all the miners somehow magically agreed to use just old microcontrollers from the 90s and nothing else.

@Basement-Science

18 күн бұрын

Correct. This is the result of it being a trustless system which in turn results from pure free market competition. Nothing but economics dictate the installed capacity and power consumption in the network.

@onehairybuddha

17 күн бұрын

Maybe ASIC resistance is the answer? That way it's driving general chip development and there's more of an incentive to use spare hardware rather than specialised.

@Basement-Science

17 күн бұрын

@@onehairybuddha doesnt really make a difference apart from resources spent on R&D which is pretty insignificant in terms of environmental impact. In a way its actually beneficial for the hardware to be as power-*DENSE* as possible, meaning less material comprises the same power demand because that less material may have less environmental impact to manufacture. But either way, the actual electricity is gonna be much more impactful

It would be better if it was proof of useful work. Not just proof you wasted energy

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

then you will like proof of stake systems like ethereum that use 99% less energy.

@2Heinz2

18 күн бұрын

Stop immediately your social media, thats wasted energy.

@relatively_random4903

18 күн бұрын

@@cwpv2477 Doesn't proof of stake just mean that those who have money can make more money? It inevitably leads to a dystopia where few groups or individuals own basically all the supply.

@sensorer

18 күн бұрын

@@cwpv2477 No, I do not like proof of stake. My problem is not with using energy to mine cryptocurrencies. My problem is that right now the computations completed are designed to be hard, but are of no value. I say it would be beneficial to have a system that uses actual useful calculations as a proof of work

@sensorer

18 күн бұрын

@@2Heinz2 only after you stop yours

I thought I read somewhere that there are only 20 million bitcoins possible, or is that a guess? Hence the find rate is getting worse each year. And as the limit is neared, won't the value of each coin rise (cf inflation)? Or did I mean: the desirability? Don't forget, bitcoin is a speculative investment, it only becomes a currency if you barter it for physical goods. (other services are available).

The value in bitcoin still makes no sense to me. Someone said, "guess this big number and that equals money," and it just does? How?

@LordOfNihil

16 күн бұрын

the value comes from the fact that you have something that everyone wants. nobody wanted bitcoin early on, but once they saw other people making bank, they wanted in on it. you just need that first transaction, i believe it was for a pizza.

It takes a degree in maths, physics, geology and economics to never adress the problem of greed.

@billschlafly4107

17 күн бұрын

Greed isn't a problem. The lack of effort put forth by those who would rather blame greed is a problem.

@aaronjennings8385

17 күн бұрын

According to Charles Munger, greed isn't the problem, envy is.

@adamloepker8057

17 күн бұрын

*Evolutionary advantage. Securing survival resources has proven the most successful strategy clearly... And nature sure seems to like its solution it has worked out over 1000's of years. lol

@firelordplayz

17 күн бұрын

@@aaronjennings8385 Well, he is wrong and he is dead lol.

@taxirob2248

17 күн бұрын

@@adamloepker8057 I don't think evolution works the way you think it does..

People get involved with Bitcoin for the money. The ethics is more a sales pitch for people who don't know any better. It's also not economically efficient or even viable; when we talk about the use of Bitcoin, 97% of it is currently just held by its owner. Only around 3% of all mined bitcoin sees any regular use on a daily average, and *just* that 3% requires a massive use of energy due to proof of work. I like the idea of digital currency as a concept, but unfortunately no-one's built a digital currency that's especially economically efficient, it's just people holding until the bottom drops out.

@lobotomizedamericans

18 күн бұрын

Good post. I also find "blockchain" related cryptos interesting from a mathematical/technical perspective, though I cringe at it from an economic perspective as a "commie" because of the very idea behind it. I of course mean Satoshi's economically illiterate vision of "liberation of capital", which if Bitcoin somehow managed to achieve that in some massive global way *without first abolishing the economic malware of capitalism,* it would quickly render the planet uninhabitable by human life.

@Smith-sz9nt

18 күн бұрын

I have family in a foreign country who use Bitcoin. The country has severe hyperinflation and US dollars are restricted. Crime is rampant so they are afraid to hold any amount in physical assets like gold.

@xzan88

18 күн бұрын

people keep holding it because the price is rising drastically. you don't want to sell an asset if you think it will be worth several times more in the future. this price appreciation is a necessary phase in this early adoption stage. you can't successfully introduce new hard money without it appreciating drastically in the beginning as demand for it rises. as more people adopt it and the market cap increases volatility decreases. if it ever gets widely adopted eventually it will become stable enough that it will be suitable for normal payments. or maybe it will just exist as backing to other money like gold did in the past. but with bitcoin the system would be more transparent, less centralized and harder to cheat than with gold.

@Kokally

18 күн бұрын

@@xzan88 That's also the marketing for Bitcoin but it can't hold up in practice. Bitcoin runs on scarcity as it's motive, mining becomes more complicated as time passes and Bitcoin only has a set number of coins that can ever be mined. So as time passes, the worth of the currency transfers from the worth of it's scarcity in mining, to its worth in the proof of work for each transaction. But because of the way proof of work happens, there can only ever be diminishing returns on it for a stable price. So this requires the price of Bitcoin rise higher and higher to compensate. The entire system demands that Bitcoin never achieves stability.

@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle

18 күн бұрын

Digital currency is the end of a free state

I've never watched one of your videos, just seeing them floating around. But I got to say, very thorough video. Regardless of the good or bad of crypto, I really like how you present everything

What is good bad or ugly? If there is a need and usage for something then it will inevitably consume energy. The production and providing of electricity is a market so the mining farms have to make contracts with the electricity providers like everyone else. If the mining farms wouldn’t even exist, the electricity would just be bought by someone else, for a price regulated by supply and demand.

Proof of work rewards those who use the cheapest energy (typically stranded energy sources). Proof of stake rewards those based on how much money you already have staked in the system, i.e. the rich get richer...

@Castle3179

18 күн бұрын

The rich get richer in proof of work, too. Those who have more value in capital can do more work and get more money.

@Castle3179

18 күн бұрын

Those who have more Bitcoin mining capital make more money faster. The rich still get richer.

@lobotomizedamericans

18 күн бұрын

The "rich get richer" under ANY circumstance as long as the massively destructive economic malware of capitalism is at play.

@braytongoodall2169

18 күн бұрын

returns to scale are lower in Ethereum PoS than in Bitcoin PoW, though it depends on the specifics of the PoS. For instance block proposals in Ethereum have a slight edge at greater scale. Bitcoin sees a concave return to scale though: it gets more efficient initially and then gets less efficient eventually, since you start to run out of good opportunities to source cheap power. So the marginal gain in efficient opportunities initially increases as scale increases, and then declines later.

@Techmagus76

18 күн бұрын

not so fast. Proof of work rewards those who have the lowest calculations cost. The energy cost play an important role in it, but access to the most efficient calculators is important too. not to forget proof of work could favor the ones with the most calculation power, if they have enough to take over the chains as seen several times. Proof of stake could be the rich, but a stake did not has to be money or wealth that is only your limitation of thinking.

It was enlightening to hear about the energy aspect in such depth as I had never dove in this deep. On a side note the only reason I am "okay" with bitcoin is because there is a limitation to it's influence. There is a limit and the competitors have issues making a trustworthy counterpart. Because although I do not trust banks even more, there is a reason there is regulations put into place for the usage of currency. It dosen't stop it but makes it a bit harder to do sketchy things.

@kennethferland5579

17 күн бұрын

BTC is litterally the biggest driver of cyber crime on the planet and is facilitating huge amounts of ransomware which would otherwise be immpossible to do through normal banking, and I don't even want to get into the human trafficing, international bribery and sanctions evasions.

Oh and I just want to note that mining ASICs are by definition useless outside of mining, meaning that once obsolete they literally have no use besides being thrown out; it’s a guaranteed infinite stream of e-waste FPGAs, GPUs and CPUs have used beyond bitcoin mining

@dzidmail

17 күн бұрын

But how does it matter in grand scheme of things - after 10y almost any compute hardware is an e-waste

@kyleistrying

17 күн бұрын

@@dzidmail yes but it’s much faster than that for asic miners Beyond that 10yr old HW is perfectly fine for most people in computing. Sure a Haswell CPU is old but it can easily be snappy with an SSD. Moors law hasn’t been in effect for a long time with CPUs

@Rechnerstrom

17 күн бұрын

@@kyleistrying I'm watching this on something that's called Bloomfield. If it wasn't for the end of life of Windows 10 I wouldn't have to upgrade and could run it for another 15 years. I bought it in 2009. It's running fine. GPUs age quicker. I'ts not even the oldest part in my computer. One of my hard disks is a Hitachi disk that runs for at least 20 years now. It's an IDE disk. Crystaldiskinfo: status good, 76k hours run time, 8.3k times powered up. So it's 22 years old.

@kennethferland5579

17 күн бұрын

The embedded energy cost in all that e-waste is HUGE. and One of the reason they will NEVER use renewables, the hardware has to be run 24/7 and into the ground before it becomes obsoleted by the next generation. I remember when the transition to ASIC's happened they were delivered 'late' because manufactures were mining with them for a month blowing through the largest share of their profitability before shipping them. And that is on the more ethical end of this buisness, it is so utterly infested with crooks.

@Rechnerstrom

17 күн бұрын

@@kennethferland5579 Sabine explained in the video that some Bitcoin miners do use renewables. There also exist solutions for renewables to buffer load and power generation with akkumulator parks which are situated next to the windpark or solar park. It's called grid energy storage. What's installed is usually several 100 MWh of power storage. With these you can guarantee a 24/7 operation. Prices dropped so much that battery power storage systems have become the cheapest solution for grid energy storage.

Please try to apply a similar analysis to the waste due to fiat currency printing, fractional reserves (of 0% backing these days) AND debt.

There are already incentives to produce energy efficiently. If you generate it cheaply you make more money.

@mbican

18 күн бұрын

Not in Kenya, there no money there, you need to bring your own money

@piotrkawaek6640

18 күн бұрын

It is not about energy production cost, but about graphical card efficiency.

@JamesHardaker

18 күн бұрын

​@piotrkawaek6640 already incentives for that too. More efficient graphics cards are what users want. Nvidia would make that happen anyway

@JamesHardaker

18 күн бұрын

Generative energy for no reason other than to create a bitcoin which can then be turned into a government backed currency is daft - one way or another resources and or energy were wasted, even the metals etc to build the power plant is a waste. It would be better if that money was invested into producing energy cheaply for actual communities. I guess that wouldn't be as profitable

@JamesHardaker

18 күн бұрын

While we're at it. If bitcoin has been so successful at making energy generation more efficient why are energy prices rising across most of the world.

Nice dress Ms. Hossenfelder!

One thing not mentioned is the idea that you can use the waste heat from Bitcoin mining to make things potentially more profitable. For example heating a room, heating water, etc. We already heat rooms and water, so why not offset the cost by mining and also spurring innovation in energy efficiencies while doing it?

Roger Ver is no longer associated with Bitcoin, years ago he forked it and created Bitcoin Cash.

A single Bitcoin transaction uses more energy than the average U.S. house does in 18 days. And as much fresh water as a home swimming pool. Every.single.transaction. Think about that.

@TartempionLampion

15 күн бұрын

Now with technologies like Lightning this has become totally untrue. The energy consumption of a transaction is meaningless. It still needs to he deployed widely, though (it's in the process).

@kosdas

14 күн бұрын

welcome to Bitcoin. Now please study, and then talk.

I don’t understand BitCoin’s How do you get something from nothing Who pays

@injest1928

17 күн бұрын

Welcome to currency in general

@ciao934

17 күн бұрын

tell that to our governments printing tons of money from literally nothing. at least here you're converting energy to digital money, and this money can't be printed over than a certain amount. powerful idea isn't it?

@michaelbuick6995

17 күн бұрын

You don't get something from nothing. That ironically would be fiat currency. In bitcoin you have to invest energy that is what proof-of-work is.

@QEDFPV

17 күн бұрын

Asking the right questions. The price of Bitcoin is dictated by the dummies who are willing to pay for it hoping to sell it to other dummies later. As soon as we run out of dummies it goes to zero

@tombolo4120

17 күн бұрын

Inquiring minds wonder how they can get something for something..

Hey Sabine, your videos is always educational. But this one lacks some deeper insight of why Proof of work is way superior to Proof of stake. a whole bunch of ethnically and security concerns. Study the deeper philosophy behind bitcoin, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I think you should read Bitcoin Standard.

As far as I'm concerned, the most controversial issue about cryptocurrencies is that they don't stem from a productive activity. They are the products of no service or goods. That's economically flawed.

@donnagray9579

16 күн бұрын

That is exactly my question. Where/how is value stored? Which entity is generating it? I get all the same 'spooked ' feelings as with any other sketchy financial scheme. Very opaque.

@michaelg5587

15 күн бұрын

The same is true for dollars and all fiat money - at least since the decoupling from gold. Watch a general documentary about our monetary system - it's very interesting.

Hello Sabine! Just a hint: immediately before 5:53 you say that more than 65 000 000 Tons CO2/year have been generated in 2022 but in the video thigure shown is 45 000 000 Tons CO2/year.

It doesn’t have to use that much energy, the algorithm adjust difficulty to keep a constant release rate of bitcoin Its so power intensive because everyone keeps throwing more and more compute resources at it to gain an edge, which then results in the algorithm being harder and thus requiring more compute power and so on

Excellent independent report on Bitcoin. Whether Bitcoin, gold,or even the information and knowledge economy; money other than fiat is increasingly becoming a necessity of life. A final point, it's all about the energy; the relative value of fiat currency and peoples' wages are only going in one direction - down!

Best collection of informations on the topic, I heard so far, great presentation👌. If I understood, it´s all a math game, that´s is transferred to an economical game, without any real substantial gain. Ok, the argument that it brings social or technological progress beyond it´s own purpose is also used for weapons developement or bigger particle colliders. I personally figure that a weak argument. Why not focus on the progress at the first place?

@SabineHossenfelder

18 күн бұрын

I see it more as a medium that could make the economic system more efficient by transferring capital into regions which currently have little. The issue is that it's difficult to transport energy -- that requires a lot of investment. But converting the energy into numbers and sending them wirelessly is very cheap.

@aaronjennings8385

18 күн бұрын

I agree. It's a weak justification for a baseless monetary system. It's bad enough that money is worthless, printed from air, but now we need it to excuse a fantasy existing exclusively in a virtual world.

@ralphdihlmann6516

18 күн бұрын

@@SabineHossenfelder exactly. This should inspire even better ideas for updating "out of date economics" (i.e., costs of damage for the global community not included in products) into a more sustainable system.

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

the substantial gain is a lowering of the transport and logistic factor of the new commodity (compared to gold) as well as a permissionless system not being able to be censored or changed by state or private entities. The substantial gains in short therefore are scalability, speed and corruption protection/basis of a new not inflation and debt cycle based financial system.

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

@@aaronjennings8385 paper money is indeed baseless and centralised, once digital. Bitcoin is not baseless, as it is limited in supply, and no inflation or freezing of funds can happen. You also confuse a commodity, with a currency. And btc has more inflows then gold from venture funds and likes of black rock. Meaning in very short: They also understand it has more fundamental value as backing of a financial system, then a centralised bond with infinite supply.

You are wasting energy much more efficiently... I love it. ❤❤❤

@cwpv2477

18 күн бұрын

what is this even supposed to mean, instagram and youtube use more power every day then the whole of crypto which is valued at 2 trillion

@maurotassinarizugnitauro2990

18 күн бұрын

@@cwpv2477 Yep. The point waisting energy.....

@BarbiesBoyfriend93

18 күн бұрын

Well Bitcoin has more value for humanity than 100x the energy which it is "wasting". Waste is relative if you don't understand what it does for ppl

@Mike-Snoducky

18 күн бұрын

Crypto is definitely a valuable product for money laundering, ransom demands, and scammers.

@bobmcbobbington9220

18 күн бұрын

@@BarbiesBoyfriend93 Bitcoin's "value" is based in USD. But Mike above is correct: it is used heavily for money laundering. Very efficient indeed.

It seems to me there are two aspects of environmental impact of bitcoin mining. One is greenhouse gases, which are a long term effect. The other is the dissipation of the heat itself, a more short term issue. That heat either has to be radiated away to space, or it gets stored in the atmosphere by the greenhouse gases, which raises global temperatures. The question is whether the human race as a whole is benefitting from generating these gases and spending this heat on bitcoin mining. Maybe better to spend it building a bridge? I fail to see how the utility of finding bitcoin numbers for proof of work is worth the cost of the greenhouse gases and the heat. Our total energy on earth is limited. The opportunity cost is very high.

I think an important thing to mention is, how much energy does Bitcoin use compared to the *current* monetary system?

When i saw the title, i prepared myself to hear s possibly misinformed narrative about Bitcoin, especially when she cited Roger Ver as the "pro Bitcoin" voice. I say possibly because this is Sabine we are talking about. I've never heard her to just blindly accept any narrative so i hoped she would do her best to be objective...and she did not disappoint. Of course, no explanation both sides of Bitcoin would be complete in a 18 minute video, but i think she was fair. Like others, i do wish she would have given mention to why proof of stake just recreates the system we already have...the rich get richer, but maybe she could do additional videos discussing the idea of sound money. In any case, it's another decent video by SH. Good work!

@lexer_

18 күн бұрын

I would also have liked to see this point being made in this video in particular and also in general.

@gps9715

17 күн бұрын

Yes it was well done but....she acts like climate or the environment is he main purpose or focus of bitcoin which is entirely wrong. The environmental and climate effects became a side product well after bitcoin was introduced(almost a decade). Bitcion is uncensorable money free from bank or government control. That is it's main purpose and this video doesn't even mention it.

@FirstTimer23

17 күн бұрын

@@lexer_ st least she did enough of her homework to not lump Bitcoin in with the rest of crypto.

@nfdisco3484

17 күн бұрын

Proof of stake is economically and financially equivalent to proof of work, so if one recreates the system we already have so does the other.

@CountJeffula

17 күн бұрын

How does bitcoin alleviate the problem of the rich getting richer? By appreciating so much, the early adopters got free wealth beyond their wildest dreams and new players should not expect the same growth as previously. This is actually much worse than almost every other currency. Lol

Picking on Roger Ver is funny, but you could have quoted MANY other people about Bitcoin who are smarter, well-respected and not a criminal. Antonopoulos, Saylor and Keiser to name a few.

@epajarjestys9981

17 күн бұрын

They are all criminals.

@nmccw3245

17 күн бұрын

Andreas M. Antonopoulos Gets my vote 👍🏻

@OmegaPointZen

16 күн бұрын

Once she mentioned Roger Ver my eyes rolled and it stopped watching. I lived through the Block Size Wars, thinking back to what Ver attempted to do makes me feel sick.

@cyberprompt

16 күн бұрын

@@OmegaPointZen same, but I stuck it out as she tends to be pretty fair if you control the urge to purge ; )

@Icarus169

16 күн бұрын

She has lost much credibility to me because of this video. So little actual deep dive research means you can basically trust Jack shit she’s saying. She’s here to make a buck, not to provide excellent information.

At the end of the day it's still work/energy used without real purpose.

I came here to learn something and I am now leaving with some new perspectives. Thanks to you !

Please do a comparison between the energy use of Bitcoin's proof of work algorithm verses the traditional banking network.

@morganburks6936

12 күн бұрын

I see your point, but I don't think it is a fair comparison. International banking performs about 2 billion transactions per day, while Bitcoin is about half a million per day. I.e. 4000 times fewer.

Good start to a complicated topic. This video was focused on the energy usage of bitcoin, but didn’t go into the capped supply, why proof of stake is a centralizing force and the importance of proof of work for decentralization, and the shortcomings of fiat money. Why we should want a decentralized fixed supply money, and what fiat has done to the world, are important questions to think about when thinking about bitcoin.

@knight2255

18 күн бұрын

Well said

@jasusonice339

18 күн бұрын

Pretty much only highlighted its pros as a moneymaking business, rather than the pro of it being money, which can stop inflationary tax on every level of society, think of how much energy saving that can bring to the whole system, but thats ok, the smartest and greatest minds will have to deal with it in the same way as everyone else in time

@gavinjenkins899

18 күн бұрын

It didn't get into "why PoS is centralizing" because it isn't. You just made that up. Videos shouldn't "get into" wrong and imaginary things.

@gps9715

17 күн бұрын

These are the main question in fact. This video acted like the only purpose of bitcoin was it's climate or environmental impacts and effects. This video completely misses the point of bitcoin.

@VivekNa

17 күн бұрын

​@@gavinjenkins899 PoS is centralizing because people with more of the coin start out with more say Proof of stake is pretty much like a frontier village where the biggest land owners take the decision as to who gets the next staked claim. Its a fundamentally flawed idea.

8:16 Regarding "oversupply." Is anyone complaining if their energy comes from renewable sources? I know there complaining about investing in renewables, but if the renewable sources are already on the grid, is someone trying to tell the power companies, "I don't want any of that clean stuff!" I could be misunderstanding the point.

The halving cycle doesn't mean miners must double their energy efficiency every 4 years to remain profitable, because their reward is in bitcoin, not other currencies, therefore if for example bitcoin double every 4 years, then their profit would remain the same, and in fact the halving by itself by reducing the incentive to main bitcoin (everything else being equal) result in a decrease of the supply of new bitcoins and therefore an increase in its prices

From purely an energy usage perspective, it would be interesting to compare the amount of energy related to bitcoin, gold, and the USD. For bitcoin, it seems like an easier calculation as miner data seems more readily available. One would need to include some portion of the worldwide web, exchanges, and home computer electrical usage to fully asses the amount of electrical usage. For gold, need to factor in the energy to mine it, ship it, and store it. Plus all the computing power need to trade paper gold and so on. For USD, what is the cost there related to the use of that currency, swift, INTERAC, how about visa…what would one include to factoring in all the energy cost related to using that currency?

@michaelbuick6995

17 күн бұрын

This is exactly why the energy argument is such bs. With bitcoin you pay upfront, so it's visible. But as you say how much energy does it cost to maintain fiat currency? So you include the bank teller driving to work? The cost of keeping the lights on at the bank? Do we take it to another level of abstraction and include the environmental destruction caused by national debt? Something only possible on a fiat standard. I bet if we did the calculation fairly, the energy consumption of bitcoin would be tiny in comparison.

@gh4534

16 күн бұрын

The other myth is the highly suspected dark money, illegal activities and fraudulent uses of bitcoin. First, let’s compare the total amount of illegal activity involving USD, and how much untraceable illegal activity involves the USD and finally. Btc is actually fairly public and transparent. The blockchain is absolutely visible and most transactions are funneled through KYC exchanges that in theory could be linked to an account holder.

It's still such a strange way to help development of new energy sources. Isn't there a cryptocoin which relies e.g. on protein folding knowledge? Or any other math calculation which has some use apart from nominal knowledge.

@TheDakes

17 күн бұрын

Gridcoin actually...

@michaelbuick6995

17 күн бұрын

The problem with that is that you introduce new incentives. The fact that the calculation required in the POW algorithm is kinda useless is a feature not a bug. It keeps the network neutral. If you start using it for different things, now you have a "some POW is more equal than others" situation. By having it be a calculation with no real world use it makes everyone focus on the same goal; mine bitcoin, which in turn secures the network.

@mynameisben123

17 күн бұрын

@@michaelbuick6995yep agree, if the incentive was some ever-changing organic goal or objective. Who decides what to focus on next? Who is even in control to make the decision? What if there’s one protein type they want to fold and then someone else wants another? What if we run out of proteins to fold? What if one of the proteins takes a year to fold? I don’t know anything about protein folding but I know it won’t be systematically uniform and neutral as you say like Bitcoin is. Proof of work is the genius.

This was a solid effort to understand. Please keep working, you're a good part of the way there. I suggest looking further into the first principles of proof of work, Austrian economics, demand response power grid management and how PoW can bring electric power to the 3rd world through economic incentives.

I'd also appreciate a video about economic aspects of bitcoin and its influence on society and world economy. My personal take on it is rather critical / negative, but I'd like to hear where you stand on this topic.

Thank you for the great background color scheme. A very nice touch for the month of June.

Don't we have some expensive to run algorithms that can help us to advance scientifically as a species? Why not reward that?

"If your couch is a volcano" is going to be my new "consider a perfect sphere."

My problem with this is the fact that a picture (photo) of energy is not the same as actual usable energy. You waste the energy to get an information/mathematical picture of it, and then you have to use the mathematical picture to burn even more energy to make any practical use of it. That's twice as much energy use where half is wasted when you could have just used the original energy for practical beneficial task in the first place without the illusionary pictures of the energy that are useless lol > It's about as sound as perpetual motion machines with overture lol

@BigHotSauceBoss69

10 күн бұрын

lol no. it is about storing that "energy" as an immutable value. the point of Bitcoin is that when you own some amount, it is a permanent number on the ledger, with no exceptions. it can never be changed, diluted, or tampered with. you are the ONLY person who can spend or trade it. that comes at a cost, but what people will be sorry they missed is that Bitcoin is the most secure asset there can possibly ever be. people have yet to really understand that this is the one single superior quality of Bitcoin, and they focus on everything else.

Proof of stake is a throwback to the legacy system. Proof of work is the innovation.

Using unused energy is a good thing only if it produces something usable, something valuable. I am not sure I put crypto currencies in that category. After this the only question is how harmful it is. All that green energy could also be used for other purposes, so using green energy is not a gain if you consider the full economy.

I don't understand how using energy surplus for bitcoin mining could do anything valuable for the planet at all. To me this sounds like, hey, what if we use all the energy oversupply to efficiently print lots of cash and use that to make some random people rich. Nothing of value is being added, hence there cannot be a net gain, except for maybe learning how to print cash efficiently.

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10 күн бұрын

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10 күн бұрын

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10 күн бұрын

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10 күн бұрын

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@sheltonunrabbe

10 күн бұрын

Can I also do it??? My life is facing lots of challenges lately

Changing to proof of stake is Not an option…

@derpopanz4502

17 күн бұрын

Never ever!

@thoembrand1203

17 күн бұрын

right! Bitcoin proof of stake already exists - but no one wants it.

@ghostbroly

17 күн бұрын

PoS encourage centralisation which is bad for security

@J4M13M1LL3R

17 күн бұрын

Didn't except so many laser eyes on a Sabine video

@otter_cookies7590

15 күн бұрын

@@ghostbroly Bitcoin PoW which is not ASIC-resistant encourages centralization

Great and insightful take on Crypto. Thank you!!

Love your work. I was expecting a more thorough overview. It was almost completely energy focused. No mention of the value of proof of work. No mention of cryptology. Very brief mention of distributed computing. There is no mention of the economics of limited supply. I agree outside the wheelhouse of physics but a fundamental component of the story. I think you would have had a wonderful take on encryption basically can you guess what molecule I am thinking of in the observable universe. Thank you ❤

I don’t understand BitCoin’s How do you get something from nothing Who pays 💰

@MNbenMN

18 күн бұрын

It's not something from nothing. Something from nothing is how governments issue fiat currency, though. Bitcoin (no "s") is an exchange tracking system, like any kind of money, credit, or debt.

@captain66743

18 күн бұрын

Exactly the same reason I don't understand The Big Bang.

@Reashu

18 күн бұрын

The last person who falls for it ends up holding the bag

@Jp-ue8xz

18 күн бұрын

Who pays? people who want to have some. As opposed to fiat currencies, in which everyone pays or else the govt. will kidnap you.

@RobertJWaid

18 күн бұрын

@@MNbenMN Government currencies are backed by their ability to tax while cryptos are backed by nothing.