I somewhat understand what you are trying to get at. Necromancy is relatively strong and power creep is certainly of a concern (if the same power is given to all other styles). I do think that some of the kill time for bosses is getting a little short… and some abilities like invoked death is just a straight dps increase without much skill expression. I also agree that necromancy seems quite reliant on conjures right now. It should be a good idea to shift some powers back to some of the the abilities. Seeing necromancy kinda reminds me the beginning of eoc where eoc basically obliterated all pre-existing content and created a levelled field for future content. The shift eventually got us to a better place in combat but it certainly took a while to get here. I definitely hope that it won’t take as long to balance everything this time around. I do have to say that I disagree about the part where you say necromancy shouldn’t be as strong as the other combat styles. It does seem that you heavily equate active apm to skill expression (hybriding, 4taa, gear switching). While I do think apm is a form of skill expression, it shouldn’t be the end all be all of runescape combat. It would be interesting to have a combat style that requires high apm, but I think stack management is also a valid form of skill expression. I feel like I’m way more involved in my combat of necromancy, constantly keeping an eye on my stacks, keeping the conjured alive and actively thinking about the ability order for everything. It makes me feel like I’m the mastermind of an operation. But then again, I’m a subpar pvmer who hasn’t even engaged with half of the bosses in the game… So what do I know? Thanks for the video though. It’s interesting to see a viewpoint that’s a little different. :)

Well said. Couldn't agree more

I agree 100% with everything. The problem with a game that is purely pvm is that people dont like stuff to be balanced just because the enemy is just a bunch of pixels and the fun is just to delete them, without even needing to counter mechanics of the boss. End game bosses getting demolished without doing mechanics (because they are skipped anyway) doesnt feels fair to me

As a player that only got into manual PVM / bossing with Necro, I don't personally care if they reduced the damage output. I see they are already nerfing deathskulls... don't care. For me its less to do about damage and more about how easier the abilities and rotations are to learn and use, plus the lack of weapon switches means I would choose this style even if the DPS was lower than the others.

@CarguyRS

11 ай бұрын

As is what the skill was designed to do; give the less experienced players in terms of PvM ability an option to try it out and learn through experience and building skill sets. Keep learning and you'll be surprised how far you can go. Good job fam

What is your opinion about other styles getting 30k hitcap aswell? Do you think necromancy will still be on top? Imo its expected to be on top right now as first 120 combat skill. And will soon be outperformed by every other style

@pondracek

10 ай бұрын

Your definition of 'soon' must be like Cloud Imperium Games (Star Citizen). There's an entire 6 month roadmap of necro content ahead of us.

@jonathan4825

10 ай бұрын

@@pondracek i use the same defenition of soon like deadpool's upcoming new movie :)

@MeanBeanComedy

10 ай бұрын

​@@jonathan4825Ha! If Deadpool 3 ever comes out, I'll eat my hat. (I own an edible hat)

@MeanBeanComedy

10 ай бұрын

Melee will be the new meta after the hitcap increase.

I'm personally not a big fan of the whole stack-building idea, but that may be just because they're displayed in different places. I'm pretty sure that in a past Dev Diary they said a big problem they have with the combat system is that it feels like players have to constantly look at their ability bar (when they should be looking at the boss and its mechanics instead). Yet with necro it feels like I have to constantly look at my buff bar to check the stacks (and check ability cooldowns) which is basically embodying that exact problem. Maybe improving the way stacks are displayed would fix the problem, but I still feel like its a poor choice to build a skill around

@CarguyRS

11 ай бұрын

The game certainly could use a UI update, which would help. I don't like the ideas on Twitter of basically having all stacks being a sky scraper above the players head, but maybe having the buff bar be split up into different buff bars, like a stacks bar/effects bar etc and moveable on screen is a good enough solution.

@aquarhythm2999

11 ай бұрын

@@CarguyRS I definitely agree I do NOT want to see a cluttered solution either. I think it could also help if we could have a setting for Finger to grey out if below 6 Necrosis stacks. It would help make it feel a little more like a threshold I'm used to (in that when it lights up, you know it's good to go without second thought). I appreciate that Volley already avoids this just by requiring the souls to activate

Very well said!

So essentially, this is a war between the "Sweaty Elitists" and the "Filthy Casuals". To be fair, I feel as if Necro does need to be tuned down a bit but still be stronger than the CURRENT 3 combat styles just because it is a 120 skill. My main issue is how easy it is to obtain the gear/abilities/incantations.

Necromancy dominating the leaderboard on records when it almost certainly hasnt been fully figured out is a huge red flag. Im pausing before you list your proposal for changes to take a moment to type out mine. Im curious if we picked up on similar things. Any numbers given are more estimates to paint a picture. Dearh skulls: Reduce the damage by like 30-40%. Its ludicrously strong. Its like a high roll roar into ezk spec withiut any additional work and does all its damage in 1/10th of the time. Conjures all become free, but their base damage output is lowered, maybe like 30%. Alternatively, make the conjures cost a soul stack and have a new abilitiy summon all 3 in gcd for 3 stacks? Just thinking out loud there. Align their durations as well, thats really annoying to me for some rrsosn that the ghost is shorter. Make the skeleton spec cost like 10-20% adren. Maybe make the ghosts cost 20-30, but give it a smaller duration as well. Like 10-15s where it apploes it on attacks. The ghost being a freebie boost to dps for 0 effort is not good design imo. Scythe 1 should be free or maybe even generate adrenaline. 2, should cost 10 or 15, and 3 is fine imo. Deathguard spec should deal less base damage and more per necrosis stack. As far as i know, you never eant to use any necrosis for this unless its a final blow. Death mark is such an odd and imo crappy choice. Imo it needs an entire rework. A freebie 30k hit to a boss just for pressing a button at the start or wearing armor is just bad design. For now thats all id do if i had free reign. Its a lot, but id need to see the effects before i said more. Im also sure im forgetting shit. And now that ive listened im apparently much more trigger happy. Lol. I really like finger of death and the soul abilities. I even like the ultimate, but do losthe that its a 90s cd rather than 60s because it throws off years of habits on 60s rotations. Minor gripe, but ulting then using the t95 spec feels really good and i love that flow.

Buffing all other styles and making the hardest bosses in the game feel like a gwd2 boss surely isn't a solution to me. Accessability is nice, but should stop at around the road from mid to high level bosses. That makes necro worthless for endgame bosses, but in my opinion you can't have accessability AND be able to do the best dps in the game. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the release & the hype & also the fact you can train by doing rituals and get into pvm later on. I just sincerely hope all of this gets nerfed, the sooner the better.

I mostly agree with a lot of what you're saying and have some thoughts. The issue I find with the other styles isn't the level of APM you need, it's the unintuitive nature of the tricks and the fact that they're binary benefits to incorporate, or punishments to ignore. For example 4TAA, although rewarding to learn, once you incorporate it into your muscle memory, you're not really doing anything conscious to express your skill or decisions to impact the encounter, you're just going through the motions and increased your damage. I've started to dislike this with other styles at an advanced level. I'm also a fan of SwitchScape but with the limited action bar space as well as buttons on my mouse and keyboard, it's getting to a level where the fun is diminishing (cries in melee) - however what else am I going to do to improve as a player and increase my damage? This is all there is available to the other styles when everything revolves around adrenaline and cooldowns only. You talked about the decision making you have with necromancy like the ultimate and the stacks, which is far more fulfilling to me as a player than micromanaging switches for individual abilities or weird mechanics like 4TAA. Necromancy is a bit *too* simple in it's infancy as well as being overpowered as heck so it's not a shining example, but it shows the potential of what itself and the other styles could be. I also say this all as someone that has put in the time to learn (mostly magic) already, so I'm not one of these instant gratification people that just wants to remove all the skill level of the other styles because I can't/won't do it. I do believe a middle ground can be found though!

@pondracek

10 ай бұрын

Disagree. The primary issue is that Necromancy outperforms the other styles with free gear and less APM. And that in doing so, it has made only necromancy gear valuable going forward. (Plus we have 6 months of upgrades for necro incoming.) And to rub salt in the wound, the only gear that's worth anything now, drops from a boss that is *immune* to every style except necromancy. Name another boss that only lets you use one combat style, period? (Even K'ree allowed choice of ranged or mage.) In short, your combat triangle is now a single combat style, and your pvm ladder is now a single boss, that *only* works with that combat style (while all the fresh casuals tell you to just use your other combat styles if you want). And the only reason it doesn't matter much that Necromancy blows everything out of the water at Solak and Telos, is that pages, grim and blights are worthless for necromancy, and those bosses are now circling the same drain that Magister has been sitting at since Arch Glacor release as a result. (Arguably, SGB is still worth something, but only if you don't have summons up.) I say again, the entire pvm ladder is now a single boss that dies faster and has less mechanics than normal mode Kerapac, on a combat style that's more powerful than anything that ever came before it, with more generous t95 drops that will be worthless in about 3 months. Let that sink in for a moment. If they don't nerf it by at *least* 20% this month to reign it in to peak performance of everything else, the damage to the game will be permanent. With regards to your comment on memorising rotations and binary decisions, necromancy is literally no different. Actually, I find that although the Necromancy rotations are arguably harder to learn (fewer buttons, but less repetition), they require 0 changes across most content.

@Odinsfall

10 ай бұрын

​@@pondracek I already said that Necromancy is too simple and overpowered and made literally 0 comment on the progression so I don't know why you're going on a massive patronising rant at me ("let that sink in"???) like I don't know the current situation or even said the opposite. I'm talking about the combat experience and more importantly the *potential*. Somehow you seem to have completely missed my points so I'll leave it at that.

@pondracek

10 ай бұрын

@@Odinsfall Ok, I'll make it plain: literally nobody would care about how "bad" the other styles are to use if they were ahead of Necro. People were continuing to staff camp with Revo after greater conc release for years, and 'bridders were getting sweaty if it meant quicker kills as well. Melee was meta pre-Raksha despite the jankiness because dps is just that important. Effort needs to be rewarded. The issue is that Necro being overpowered has ruined everything, and there's a very short window to fix it. 'Fixing' the other styles to be just as brain-dead won't revive the pvm ladder drops. Buffing another style or making it go to 120 next year won't prevent Rasial's drops turning to shit in about 2 months. Making Necro more complex & powerful over the next 6 months is what Jagex have stated they're doing. And PvM will be long dead before we even get that far.

this was a great video. i agree as much as i like usin it at aod its too strong

I think you're wrong (I've watched about 12 seconds of the video). For real though, I love seeing high level PvMers informed takes on the game. I stopped playing a couple months before Necro and don't have the desire to return, but I love watching you're stuff regardless ❤

I was grinding very hard for a high end magic setup, that allows me to do pvm. Right before I finished the setup, Necromancy came. I feel kinda betrayed.

Idk man… I only know Mage and Necro styles. How can you compare T95 necro power gear to T92 Mage Power gear and FSOA that’s been nerfed twice and only used as a switch? Seems like if mage had T95 power gear and DW T95s it would be comparable to necro.

Hard agree with everything you've said here, it all makes a lot of sense. They really weren't thinking very much when they automatically made it a 120 skill. That puts so much pressure on all the other combat styles to be that much better. (It basically forces this to happen). As for getting people into pvm... at some level it's basically just cheesing the system. I was watching a newer pvmer get his hand held through zuk the other day. He essentially bought t95 necro (full set including weapons) and hadn't even keybound devotion or anything relatively important. He had no other important unlocks. Secondly, if the idea behind 'accessibility' was to given everyone the ability to pvm, and to allow everyone an easy path to t95, what you are doing is partaking in the old idiom 'borrowing from peter to pay paul'. Higher end pvm equipment isn't expensive for no reason. It isn't artificially expensive, which is what necromancy claims it is trying to fix. Like, one of the Jmods talking about gatekeeping was a very, very ignorant and uninformed opinion on how things work. If you strip the barrier to do difficult things, so your random joe blow down the street can do them, you are also stripping the reward away from what adapting to that difficulty entailed, and what it will end up doing is making that really difficult thing, with a really big reward, have a very little reward for a lot of effort. It's just hyper inflation of goods honestly, and what that's going to mean in the long run is pvm just isn't rewarding for anyone, including the people you lowered the barrier to entry for. It's not any different than printing money and giving it to poor people to fix a 'wealth disparity'. Well, we know how that ends. The wealth disparity doesn't go away and by all measurements gets significantly worse, making the entire problem worse without fixing the intial problem they were trying to fix.?

@pondracek

10 ай бұрын

120 skill has nothing to do with it. Necromancy in T90 self-made *tank* equipment is outperforming the other styles in BIS T95 power equipment with switches at level 99. The other 21 levels just make it worse, it's that busted.

Thing is that necro is super fun, powerful, and easy to use for newer/not sweaty players. Sometimes vet players need to make compromises so that a game thats already niche doesn’t become even more so and die. I keep seeing the get players that are already good with the other styles make videos like this and definitely disagree and think that they lack perspective of the bigger picture.

@CarguyRS

11 ай бұрын

There are others for sure who hard disagree with a "for dummys" combat style, which I don't agree with such a harsh stance. I just don't enjoy seeing extreme leaps in powercreep (I.E. FOSA/Grico/Ripper demon before the respective nerfs, etc.) Moderation is key

@tvdvd8661

11 ай бұрын

​@@CarguyRS Well said We should have an easy style for people who don't or can't dedicate the time to learn the other styles. Negromancy is good. Everyone should be able to play the game but they should also need to learn the mechanisms of high level boss encounter

@HouseTre007

11 ай бұрын

Consider this. The game already has a combat system that requires you to complete hella quests, achievements, unlocks, and level grinding JUST to get into the harder bosses. And once a player Thats super motivated gets over that hurdle they’re met with a steep learning curve to not only the combat mechanics and complexity but also boss mechanics and complexity? That’s too much of a hard sell I think you must choose one: either make the road to endgame easier while maintaining it’s difficult or leave the road to endgame the way it is and simplify the extreme complexity of combat.

@tvdvd8661

11 ай бұрын

The three original styles should be the best DPS because you have to put in effort for them all

@HouseTre007

11 ай бұрын

I’m just convinced older players are set in their ways and will defend the ridiculous complexity of rs combat because it’s fun to them.. to a fault and until the game is completely dead. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Im about 50/50. I think that saying the game isnt ready for this level of power creep is wrong. All it does is make old content faster, less grindy, and upgrades cheaper and easier to obtain, which to me is a good thing. I do however think that the BEST design model would have been to still have slower power creep, i just dont think its the end of the world it didnt go that way. As far a nerfs, i think a slight damage reduction for conjures would be fine, bring ghost command down 5-10% ability damage for the cap it currently has and bring skeleton damage down 10% as well. Remove damage ramping on death skulls and id call it a day there. I definitely think bringing the other cb styles up is a good thing and as long as they continue to add new bosses that can handle current power creep i dont see a problem with the state of things.

@emeraldpichu1

10 ай бұрын

While it’s probably overtuned at this point at least, with the high-level community I would say the power is on par with the other styles If you have maxed every upgrade available. The only reason melee isn’t best burst style because of the hard cap on damage and most of the recent upgrades to magic and range rely on spreading the damage on multiple hits to bypass that.

@Tzhaar100

10 ай бұрын

I would say it wont be the most powerful in the high level community after hitcap changes for other styles. but currently necro is beating wr's all over the place, so its definitely stronger. Only place i'd say other styles are better right now is 1 ticking bosses because of not being able to stall.@@emeraldpichu1

they have essentialy made all other combat styles and bosses pointless

agreed with everything, game has become if you arent using necro you're leeching, even when doing hybrid

straight up, I wouldnt even play this game without necromancy. I had quit before because its just so damn dumb everything you need to do x amount of damage. Switches etc. I like simple scape, dunk npcs get loot have fun. Tryhard shit needs to be prestige only like cosmetics. Them locking anything behind super hard group content is how we got to such lower player numbers to begin with. Unfortunately the super elitist pvm endgame group just isn't big enough to keep this game healthy. Necromancy fills the gap.

Necromancy is a problem when you get kicked for not using it for pvming

ok but really, people still believe we went to the moon lol wake up

All i can say is true but the fact necro have big dpm is fine for now cause i believe jagex will bring the other style up to necro

I agree with a lot of what you said, but necro doesnt need nerfed. The combat triangle just needs buffed. I think we ARE ready for this jump in pvm personally.

It's a 120 skill tho, would be weird if it couldn't out-dps existing current level 99 combat style, I'm sure eventually other combat styles will come to 120 too.

@CarguyRS

11 ай бұрын

Was an odd choice for them to make it a 120, considering there were discussions roughly a year or so ago (might've been longer, can't really remember) that current combat styles don't need to go to 120 for tier 120 weapons to function just fine. Overall, odd choice for sure.

@MaxxCombat

11 ай бұрын

But even at 99 with t90 weapons its leagues above all the other combat styles

@denzelmolina5945

11 ай бұрын

@@MaxxCombat It really isn't. You just didn't/haven't learn(ed) how to use Fsoa or the Bolg

hard agree with everything

@tvdvd8661

11 ай бұрын

Imagine just agreeing with someone's opinion... Dumby! This is just a video of Carguys thoughts. You don't need to agree or disagree

These elitists just want a game where high skill players can take unfair advantage of their skill and outperform low skill players at the same content. That's gatekeeping and it's immoral. Accessiblemancy saved us from the dark ages where you needed best in slot everything, a packyak full of switches, and at least a green partyhat in order to even think about taking on Vindicta. I never tried Vindicta before, but now I'm close to log and I don't even own a partyhat switch. Take that, elitists!

Bad take, this seems like Goat just made a twitter post into a video. I used to like your content but it's sad to see how disconnected you are with the majority of the pvm community

From my perspective you are so drastically disconnected from the average player that 20 or 30 seconds off a kill time is game-breaking but the average players kill time is probably well in excess of minutes longer than yours at times. Definitely don't agree with the video but really enjoy your content.

@tvdvd8661

11 ай бұрын

Why are you watching his videos if you're not of this style? Carguy has always been honest about this channel. It's not for beginner pvmers. It's a high level player channel. You're the one who is out of touch. The modern scene for RS is insanely high level gear maybe you could like 1cycle zamorak, ed1 things if you tried and practiced. All the best pvmers died a billion times learning. Are you willing to do that?

@TheMillardWoTT

11 ай бұрын

Why are you mad I think he's out of touch?

@ShadesmarRS

11 ай бұрын

@@TheMillardWoTT why are you mad you're a beginner pvmer?

@HouseTre007

11 ай бұрын

The replies to this comment are why rs3 has been declining and CONTINUES to decline in popularity. Which in turn leads the devs to release things like the hero pass out of desperation to satisfy stock holders 💀 great job guys!

@HouseTre007

11 ай бұрын

@@tvdvd8661really asked if I’m willing to die a BILLION times to learn how to kill bosses on a 20 year old game 💀 bro… like literally touch grass 😂