One nice thing about atheism is that it doesn't require or imply a specific doctrine. Knowing that someone is an atheist actually doesn't tell you all that much about them, even. You know the conclusion they've arrived at (they don't believe in god(s)), but you don't know how they got there unless they tell you (and for some, they never affirmed any gods to begin with, so it's still just the default starting point). Some of the best and the worst people I've known are atheists. It's not some philosophical end point or cure-all, but a beginning; you can find atheists ranging from conservatives and liberals to fascists or nihilists. But similar applies to theists. If I recall correctly, Christopher Hitchens described science, reason, and emancipation from religion as necessary _but not sufficient_ factors (but said that thinkers worth the name distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason).
@EricSmyth4Christ
6 жыл бұрын
You are right! I should of clarified. When I said "Atheist doctrine" what I meant was definitely closer to "intelligent talking points from the smartest atheists throughout history". You can see CS has a lot of books in his background, I may consider that to be "atheist doctrine". Doctrine defined in Google is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. So while individual atheists don't take on the same "doctrine" or beliefs, the atheists in debates usually use beliefs held by and taught by "other groups" of philosophers or wise men from the past, combined with their own thoughts. My favorite atheists by the way are Sam Harris and Lawrence Krauss, both who apply their own unique style of this. You are also right that it doesn't say much about a person's story. Like if someone was asexual, all we know about them is that they don't have sex, and aren't attracted to anyone. We can't put them in the same boat on any issues other than that really; It wouldn't make sense to.
@seekingtheoncesaved2834 Жыл бұрын
Trying to understand the title vs. what I heard. I'm most likely missing some things. Is your title saying that you used to hold to a deterministic view? and then are you saying in the video that it was your conversations with some atheists that made you change your mind about God being the author of all things? Were you saying that when you espoused God having control over even their evil actions, they became very angry and wished death upon you? And then you agreed with them?
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
I was actually a “Calvinist” for years without looking into the theology much at all When I had an understanding of it, I expressed it to a group of atheists and they ganged up on me and hated it I made the video and the original title was “the worst comment I have ever made” I sent the unlisted video to the atheists and they came in and commented I watched the video back and realized this was the beginning of the end of my Calvinism and changed the title and made it public, because I thought it was interesting But yeah I was only a full Calvinist for like a week maybe, Calvinism is wild and horrible and makes no sense , and is lame , all in one A guy reads the whole Bible then comes to ask one question “are we totally depraved?” Which is a weird question Then the answer ends up being yes It’s a wicked demonic false doctrine theory from a wicked guy who made it
@seekingtheoncesaved2834 Жыл бұрын
How did you post this 2 hours ago and it has comments from 5 years ago...
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
😆
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
I want to talk to you about “abide in the Word”
@einyv6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this and I will admit I didn't know if your reply to me was you being sarcastic or real, but based on this video I can clearly see real. So thank you. Please also remember many atheists like myself used to be believers. Additionally there is no atheist doctrine. The one thing all atheists have in common is that we don't believe in a god. There are smart and dumb atheists, nice and cruel atheists, some believe really weird crap others do not, some are skeptics others are not. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't know if a god does it does not exist but I don't believe one does. Now some gods I can be Gnostic about depending on the definition. I think the Abrahamic god I am close to being gnostic although with the Christian version I am even closer. Many Christians denominations claim an all loving god. (the fact there are so many denominations and interpretations goes against your maker if it exists since it should have known the confusions its words would have on humans. An all knowing god should be able to prevent this nonsense so there is 1 Christian denomination). Also, Christianity brought in the concept of hell and eternal torment for finite crimes, eternal punishment for nothing more than not believing in this god. That is the antithesis of all loving. The doctrine to go out an spread the word is actually cruel in my opinion. Many denominations will say if someone has never heard of Jesus they will not be punished but if they are told about Jesus and reject Jesus then they will. You guys can't see how cruel that is? Your act (if you do this) of telling them has a high chance of condemning them if your God is real. Indoctrination is huge. Telling someone that was raised hindu their whole life than someone comes along and tells then about Jesus they will look at you like you are crazy. But many other Christian denominations will blame the non-believer that it is our fault because they will refer to the bible and quote passages that say we should know in our hearts, etc... Sorry, that is always the get out of jail free card for Christianity, if it doesn't make sense blame the non-believer or nay sayer. I became an atheist after taking religious studies, covered many religions and the religions that impacted the Abrahamic religions and how you can see the impact through the Old Testament to the New Testament and even the Quran. Realized how much humans hands were involved, how the most primitive culture needs some type of deity to explain the world around them. So that set me on the path to become an atheist. I don't hate God (Don't believe it exists). So please keep that in mind, I think you have a preconceived notice to what atheists are and it reality is much different. Again thank you for the video , you didn't need to make it.
@EricSmyth4Christ
6 жыл бұрын
You are right! I should of clarified. When I said "Atheist doctrine" what I meant was definitely closer to "intelligent talking points from the smartest atheists throughout history". You can see CS has a lot of books in his background, I may consider that to be "atheist doctrine". Doctrine defined in Google is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. So while individual atheists don't take on the same "doctrine" or beliefs, the atheists in debates usually use beliefs held by and taught by "other groups" of philosophers or wise men from the past, combined with their own thoughts. My favorite atheists by the way are Sam Harris and Lawrence Krauss, both who apply their own unique style of this. My story is a bit interesting, and it goes beyond religious text and reasoning. I had some experiences with prayers and God answering them in very powerful ways. I became mormon at one point too, and there is definitely a lot of spiritual powers there, but I still ended up leaving, because I thought the doctrine wasn't sound, and, therefore the spirits were probably just not of God. I asked for signs and got them, but it was never enough for me to believe all their ridiculous things that was taught way after I joined, and they also went against my lifetime held theologies, like God not having a grandpa (wtf). I still find atheism fascinating and entertaining, and it makes sense to me why people would go for it, but I am a bit too far down the rabbit hole with my personal knowledge to believe something like that, which denies things I have seen already, or just the powers there of. I do agree again with you, that the more I study, the more I realize how little I know, and how confused everyone else is too. The bible even says "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief." (Ironic that I memorized that) Like wow, really? So I can't have it both ways? I can't know a lot and be happy? Great. Lol...
@einyv
6 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day I like to believe as many true things as possible. Many of those intelligent talking points are not necessarily atheist doctrine as much as a logical and consistent way of tackling issues. when it comes to prayer, if you logged all the times something you prayed for didn't come versus the times you are aware of the things that did at best and studies have shows it is even worse than a coin flip. I do believe you experienced the things you said happened to you. But i also think you probably were at a low point and grasping for answers and whatever happened to you, the answers gravitated towards spiritual in nature. (not the following happened to you but in general) There is a reason religious people go to people in times of need and tragedy, it is because people are more susceptible to outside influence during those times and are easier to manipulate. Could there be other explanations to whatever happened to you? Yes. what they are i have no idea because I was not there. I am not a philosopher and don't care or put too much emphasis regarding logical arguments. Why? Because at the end of the day the best they can do for you is say based on this sound and valid argument it is possible. That is not evidence. Many arguments put forth by believers suffer from special pleading or they make jumps with no connection to how they get there. Even if you allow the special pleading (which i don't) at most you get to a generic god, no connection to Jesus. Many times people like William Lane Craig will come up with different versions of past arguments to "move the goal post" which to me is nothing more than trying to justify a belief you have no good reason to believe. To me that is telling. I am also not a fan of theological revisionism like Christians did with the Messiah. There are specific prophecies the Jewish Messiah would fulfill and Jesus failed it. Christians would point to other passages and say why he was it but at the end of the day he failed it and that is why Jews still exist. I am also not a fan of quoting the old testament when it is convenient for them to condemn X person but when you call them out for something in the OT they claim it doesn't apply. Jesus never did a way with the old laws, Matthew 5:17-5:19 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.… Not everything was accomplished but most early Christians were illiterate and only knew what was said by preachers. But the main point is if god does exist Man has royally screwed up whatever message there is. I live my life trying to be a good person. I help others when i can. The other day i was away at a cabin and the day i was leaving this guy with his daughter approached me and asked if i had jumper cables. I said give me 10 minutes (i was walking my dog) i came back and helped the guy. He went to hand me 20 bucks. I said i didn't help you for money i did it to be nice and you needed help. He would not take the 20 bucks back. So when i stopped at the gas station on the way home, when i was in line this lady let me go first even though she got their first. She had a paper and a coffee, so I paid for it for her just to "pay it forward". I did this because i am a decent human being, not for some cosmic reward. Yet, the all loving god Christians proclaim to have would see me burn with eternal torment. Sorry, i will never wrap my logical brain around that. Anyone with any ounce of compassion and empathy knows deep down this is wrong. So if God exists, are we more moral than your all loving god OR is it possible man just screwed up the message? You know who likes to be worshiped and revered? Man. No coincidence the God of the bible is very human in that aspect. Sorry for this long diatribe but i am not trying to confrontational. I would love the idea if an afterlife but in thousands of years of recorded history and especially today with today's technology, there isn't any evidence of an afterlife. Many stories where they made a movie about the kid dying , talking to Jesus and coming back came out to be a lie. I just want evidence. If god exists it would know what i need to believe even if I do not. That hasn't happened yet. So either there is no God or this god for whatever reason is choosing to remain hidden from me. Anyway this is a long read. Have a good day.
@seekingtheoncesaved2834
Жыл бұрын
@@einyv when you are judged, God will review both your account of helping a man jump his car and buying a coffee, along with all of your deepest darkest sins. Just be aware of that. Matthew 5:21-22 NIV “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' [22] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
@einyv
Жыл бұрын
@@seekingtheoncesaved2834 5 years later since I posted. I am still an atheist. I am not worried about a deep dark sin. If there is a god it would know everything I would ever do before I was even born. If God exists as described by many believes who supposedly created this universe, it could have created any universe it chose to, even one where I was a believer, yet if it exists chose to create the universe I find myself in where I do not believe. It chose to create this universe with all the actions I would ever take before I came into existence. Now if its plan knowing every decision I will make would result in me being tortured forever when it could simply just not allow me to be created, then that God is cruel, malicious and evil. I have empathy and I am good to others and help when possible. If that's not good enough so be it. Some believers subscribe to the belief someone can be an atheist, be good and kind to other humans their whole life but will still burn in Hell for not believing yet a murderer, habitual adulterer, child molester let's say in their last days truly accepts Jesus, would go to heaven. If that God actually does exist and I'm wrong there is no way I would worship something evil like that. Nonetheless if you believe all the power to you. If that is what you need to make it through the day, make you a better person, prevents you from harming others, please keep believing. I am not against people believing in a god. I am against believers using their god as a justification to harm others or be crappy human beings to other human beings.
@seekingtheoncesaved2834
Жыл бұрын
@@einyv the only way I grow and be a good person is to first admit that I can't do it without faith in God. Because it's one or the other. Either I try to be a good person without him, or I trust in him to lead me into being a good person. It's about a simple a principal as respecting your human father and trusting that his way is better than yours.
Пікірлер: 14
One nice thing about atheism is that it doesn't require or imply a specific doctrine. Knowing that someone is an atheist actually doesn't tell you all that much about them, even. You know the conclusion they've arrived at (they don't believe in god(s)), but you don't know how they got there unless they tell you (and for some, they never affirmed any gods to begin with, so it's still just the default starting point). Some of the best and the worst people I've known are atheists. It's not some philosophical end point or cure-all, but a beginning; you can find atheists ranging from conservatives and liberals to fascists or nihilists. But similar applies to theists. If I recall correctly, Christopher Hitchens described science, reason, and emancipation from religion as necessary _but not sufficient_ factors (but said that thinkers worth the name distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason).
@EricSmyth4Christ
6 жыл бұрын
You are right! I should of clarified. When I said "Atheist doctrine" what I meant was definitely closer to "intelligent talking points from the smartest atheists throughout history". You can see CS has a lot of books in his background, I may consider that to be "atheist doctrine". Doctrine defined in Google is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. So while individual atheists don't take on the same "doctrine" or beliefs, the atheists in debates usually use beliefs held by and taught by "other groups" of philosophers or wise men from the past, combined with their own thoughts. My favorite atheists by the way are Sam Harris and Lawrence Krauss, both who apply their own unique style of this. You are also right that it doesn't say much about a person's story. Like if someone was asexual, all we know about them is that they don't have sex, and aren't attracted to anyone. We can't put them in the same boat on any issues other than that really; It wouldn't make sense to.
Trying to understand the title vs. what I heard. I'm most likely missing some things. Is your title saying that you used to hold to a deterministic view? and then are you saying in the video that it was your conversations with some atheists that made you change your mind about God being the author of all things? Were you saying that when you espoused God having control over even their evil actions, they became very angry and wished death upon you? And then you agreed with them?
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
I was actually a “Calvinist” for years without looking into the theology much at all When I had an understanding of it, I expressed it to a group of atheists and they ganged up on me and hated it I made the video and the original title was “the worst comment I have ever made” I sent the unlisted video to the atheists and they came in and commented I watched the video back and realized this was the beginning of the end of my Calvinism and changed the title and made it public, because I thought it was interesting But yeah I was only a full Calvinist for like a week maybe, Calvinism is wild and horrible and makes no sense , and is lame , all in one A guy reads the whole Bible then comes to ask one question “are we totally depraved?” Which is a weird question Then the answer ends up being yes It’s a wicked demonic false doctrine theory from a wicked guy who made it
How did you post this 2 hours ago and it has comments from 5 years ago...
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
😆
@EricSmyth4Christ
Жыл бұрын
I want to talk to you about “abide in the Word”
Thank you for making this and I will admit I didn't know if your reply to me was you being sarcastic or real, but based on this video I can clearly see real. So thank you. Please also remember many atheists like myself used to be believers. Additionally there is no atheist doctrine. The one thing all atheists have in common is that we don't believe in a god. There are smart and dumb atheists, nice and cruel atheists, some believe really weird crap others do not, some are skeptics others are not. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't know if a god does it does not exist but I don't believe one does. Now some gods I can be Gnostic about depending on the definition. I think the Abrahamic god I am close to being gnostic although with the Christian version I am even closer. Many Christians denominations claim an all loving god. (the fact there are so many denominations and interpretations goes against your maker if it exists since it should have known the confusions its words would have on humans. An all knowing god should be able to prevent this nonsense so there is 1 Christian denomination). Also, Christianity brought in the concept of hell and eternal torment for finite crimes, eternal punishment for nothing more than not believing in this god. That is the antithesis of all loving. The doctrine to go out an spread the word is actually cruel in my opinion. Many denominations will say if someone has never heard of Jesus they will not be punished but if they are told about Jesus and reject Jesus then they will. You guys can't see how cruel that is? Your act (if you do this) of telling them has a high chance of condemning them if your God is real. Indoctrination is huge. Telling someone that was raised hindu their whole life than someone comes along and tells then about Jesus they will look at you like you are crazy. But many other Christian denominations will blame the non-believer that it is our fault because they will refer to the bible and quote passages that say we should know in our hearts, etc... Sorry, that is always the get out of jail free card for Christianity, if it doesn't make sense blame the non-believer or nay sayer. I became an atheist after taking religious studies, covered many religions and the religions that impacted the Abrahamic religions and how you can see the impact through the Old Testament to the New Testament and even the Quran. Realized how much humans hands were involved, how the most primitive culture needs some type of deity to explain the world around them. So that set me on the path to become an atheist. I don't hate God (Don't believe it exists). So please keep that in mind, I think you have a preconceived notice to what atheists are and it reality is much different. Again thank you for the video , you didn't need to make it.
@EricSmyth4Christ
6 жыл бұрын
You are right! I should of clarified. When I said "Atheist doctrine" what I meant was definitely closer to "intelligent talking points from the smartest atheists throughout history". You can see CS has a lot of books in his background, I may consider that to be "atheist doctrine". Doctrine defined in Google is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. So while individual atheists don't take on the same "doctrine" or beliefs, the atheists in debates usually use beliefs held by and taught by "other groups" of philosophers or wise men from the past, combined with their own thoughts. My favorite atheists by the way are Sam Harris and Lawrence Krauss, both who apply their own unique style of this. My story is a bit interesting, and it goes beyond religious text and reasoning. I had some experiences with prayers and God answering them in very powerful ways. I became mormon at one point too, and there is definitely a lot of spiritual powers there, but I still ended up leaving, because I thought the doctrine wasn't sound, and, therefore the spirits were probably just not of God. I asked for signs and got them, but it was never enough for me to believe all their ridiculous things that was taught way after I joined, and they also went against my lifetime held theologies, like God not having a grandpa (wtf). I still find atheism fascinating and entertaining, and it makes sense to me why people would go for it, but I am a bit too far down the rabbit hole with my personal knowledge to believe something like that, which denies things I have seen already, or just the powers there of. I do agree again with you, that the more I study, the more I realize how little I know, and how confused everyone else is too. The bible even says "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief." (Ironic that I memorized that) Like wow, really? So I can't have it both ways? I can't know a lot and be happy? Great. Lol...
@einyv
6 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day I like to believe as many true things as possible. Many of those intelligent talking points are not necessarily atheist doctrine as much as a logical and consistent way of tackling issues. when it comes to prayer, if you logged all the times something you prayed for didn't come versus the times you are aware of the things that did at best and studies have shows it is even worse than a coin flip. I do believe you experienced the things you said happened to you. But i also think you probably were at a low point and grasping for answers and whatever happened to you, the answers gravitated towards spiritual in nature. (not the following happened to you but in general) There is a reason religious people go to people in times of need and tragedy, it is because people are more susceptible to outside influence during those times and are easier to manipulate. Could there be other explanations to whatever happened to you? Yes. what they are i have no idea because I was not there. I am not a philosopher and don't care or put too much emphasis regarding logical arguments. Why? Because at the end of the day the best they can do for you is say based on this sound and valid argument it is possible. That is not evidence. Many arguments put forth by believers suffer from special pleading or they make jumps with no connection to how they get there. Even if you allow the special pleading (which i don't) at most you get to a generic god, no connection to Jesus. Many times people like William Lane Craig will come up with different versions of past arguments to "move the goal post" which to me is nothing more than trying to justify a belief you have no good reason to believe. To me that is telling. I am also not a fan of theological revisionism like Christians did with the Messiah. There are specific prophecies the Jewish Messiah would fulfill and Jesus failed it. Christians would point to other passages and say why he was it but at the end of the day he failed it and that is why Jews still exist. I am also not a fan of quoting the old testament when it is convenient for them to condemn X person but when you call them out for something in the OT they claim it doesn't apply. Jesus never did a way with the old laws, Matthew 5:17-5:19 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.… Not everything was accomplished but most early Christians were illiterate and only knew what was said by preachers. But the main point is if god does exist Man has royally screwed up whatever message there is. I live my life trying to be a good person. I help others when i can. The other day i was away at a cabin and the day i was leaving this guy with his daughter approached me and asked if i had jumper cables. I said give me 10 minutes (i was walking my dog) i came back and helped the guy. He went to hand me 20 bucks. I said i didn't help you for money i did it to be nice and you needed help. He would not take the 20 bucks back. So when i stopped at the gas station on the way home, when i was in line this lady let me go first even though she got their first. She had a paper and a coffee, so I paid for it for her just to "pay it forward". I did this because i am a decent human being, not for some cosmic reward. Yet, the all loving god Christians proclaim to have would see me burn with eternal torment. Sorry, i will never wrap my logical brain around that. Anyone with any ounce of compassion and empathy knows deep down this is wrong. So if God exists, are we more moral than your all loving god OR is it possible man just screwed up the message? You know who likes to be worshiped and revered? Man. No coincidence the God of the bible is very human in that aspect. Sorry for this long diatribe but i am not trying to confrontational. I would love the idea if an afterlife but in thousands of years of recorded history and especially today with today's technology, there isn't any evidence of an afterlife. Many stories where they made a movie about the kid dying , talking to Jesus and coming back came out to be a lie. I just want evidence. If god exists it would know what i need to believe even if I do not. That hasn't happened yet. So either there is no God or this god for whatever reason is choosing to remain hidden from me. Anyway this is a long read. Have a good day.
@seekingtheoncesaved2834
Жыл бұрын
@@einyv when you are judged, God will review both your account of helping a man jump his car and buying a coffee, along with all of your deepest darkest sins. Just be aware of that. Matthew 5:21-22 NIV “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' [22] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
@einyv
Жыл бұрын
@@seekingtheoncesaved2834 5 years later since I posted. I am still an atheist. I am not worried about a deep dark sin. If there is a god it would know everything I would ever do before I was even born. If God exists as described by many believes who supposedly created this universe, it could have created any universe it chose to, even one where I was a believer, yet if it exists chose to create the universe I find myself in where I do not believe. It chose to create this universe with all the actions I would ever take before I came into existence. Now if its plan knowing every decision I will make would result in me being tortured forever when it could simply just not allow me to be created, then that God is cruel, malicious and evil. I have empathy and I am good to others and help when possible. If that's not good enough so be it. Some believers subscribe to the belief someone can be an atheist, be good and kind to other humans their whole life but will still burn in Hell for not believing yet a murderer, habitual adulterer, child molester let's say in their last days truly accepts Jesus, would go to heaven. If that God actually does exist and I'm wrong there is no way I would worship something evil like that. Nonetheless if you believe all the power to you. If that is what you need to make it through the day, make you a better person, prevents you from harming others, please keep believing. I am not against people believing in a god. I am against believers using their god as a justification to harm others or be crappy human beings to other human beings.
@seekingtheoncesaved2834
Жыл бұрын
@@einyv the only way I grow and be a good person is to first admit that I can't do it without faith in God. Because it's one or the other. Either I try to be a good person without him, or I trust in him to lead me into being a good person. It's about a simple a principal as respecting your human father and trusting that his way is better than yours.