My BEST camera backpack: f-stop Guru UL: 5 YEAR review

Ғылым және технология

Find out why the f-stop Guru UL is my favourite camera backpack!
Check prices at f-stop: shop.fstopgear.com/?rfsn=4448...
Guru UL at f-stop: fstopgear.com/products/packs/...
Buy Gordon a coffee: www.paypal.me/cameralabs
Gordon's In Camera book at Amazon: amzn.to/2n61PfI / Amazon uk: amzn.to/2mBqRVZ
Like Cameralabs? Get the merch: redbubble.com/people/camerala...
#backpack #camera #f-stop

Пікірлер: 91

  • @cameralabs
    @cameralabs3 жыл бұрын

    Find out why the f-stop Guru UL is my favourite camera backpack! 5 YEAR test! Check prices at f-stop: shop.fstopgear.com/?rfsn=4448392.179422c Guru UL at f-stop: fstopgear.com/products/packs/guru-ul?rfsn=4448392.179422c Buy Gordon a coffee: www.paypal.me/cameralabs Gordon's In Camera book at Amazon: amzn.to/2n61PfI / Amazon uk: amzn.to/2mBqRVZ Like Cameralabs? Get the merch: redbubble.com/people/cameralabs/shop #backpack #camera #f-stop

  • @dannywilliams3516
    @dannywilliams35163 жыл бұрын

    Great bag Gordon. Looks well-made and well-thought-out. I'm going to have to consider one of these. Thank you for the very informative video. Take care and be safe on all your travels Gordon.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

  • @prorohono
    @prorohono3 жыл бұрын

    awesome reveiw, showed me excatly what i needed to see without getting myhands on the backpack myself. Thank you. You shoul be an fstop ambassador

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Glad to be of help!

  • @johnherzel718
    @johnherzel7183 жыл бұрын

    I’ve always been a fan of the timbuk2 messenger bag series, with a removable padded insert I took out of a smaller no name camera bag that died long ago. The timbuk2 bags are super tough and look like your carrying “the bosses laundry” not expensive camera gear. Pretty much waterproof to boot. Mines in the 6-7 year age group, and could stand a refresh. The f stop looks nice

  • @paul-green-photography
    @paul-green-photographyАй бұрын

    LOL ruggedly styled photographers! Thats a blast from the past Gordon!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    Ай бұрын

    Ha ha! Were you one of them?!

  • @rudyreimer302
    @rudyreimer3023 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for this. I have not heard of this pack brand. I will look into it more. I have lots of gear and bags to suit different purposes for what I plan in shooting on any given day. Everything from Lowepro, Think Tank, Pelican to Peak Design. For basic walk about stuff I really like the Peak Design everyday sling 10l and the Think Tank 15l sling. All depends on what you want to do.

  • @andybycz
    @andybycz3 жыл бұрын

    I have a number of bags and one back pack, all chosen around my way of working: two M4/3rds camera bodies each with a complimentary lens, plus a couple of other lenses for different situations. My fav all-round bag is my Incase Ari. Comfortable to wear all day; in no way looks like a photog bag; and I can even run with it when strapped up and tight. It'll also take books, notebooks and catalogues when at a festival. I have ThinkTank Sling-o-matic 10 and 20s for when I'm more singularly photo-minded. When, say, at a festival and away from the tent for a long time, I have a Portage Co Kenora back pack which can take different combos of refreshments and clothing, depending, in the top space, or even under the top flap. This will also take a Sirui T-025, inside the top compartment or out, without taking up much room, and, like the Incase it really does *not* shout "expensive camera kit inside". It has fast side access which I have arranged to enable reaching either body/lens combo easily. The latter took a while to sort out. Bag manufacturers make a big thing of being able to put this this and this in their bags, but what they don't tell you what happens when you have to change big lenses for small lenses on cameras, and where the new arrangements then go, when on the fly? This is of course down to the photographer to figure out...

  • @terregarob
    @terregarob3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for this review, Gordon. Mine should be with me on Friday 5th Feb. Use my Instinct Pro Sling Bag for street photography with my XT20. Keep up the good work your book is great by the way.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, glad you like it!

  • @OldGirlPhotography
    @OldGirlPhotography Жыл бұрын

    Just ordered one of these last week. Have had a Lotus for several years, but wanted something a bit lighter. Really like the f-stop products. Thanks for confirming that this was a good choice.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    Жыл бұрын

    You're welcome, hope you're happy with it! I'm still using mine today.

  • @skakdosmer
    @skakdosmer3 жыл бұрын

    My brand has always been LowePro. And since I’ve never had any of them wear out on me, I’ve just continued buying them as I bought more equipment. My favourite bag by far for carrying about is the little (now discontinued) SlingShot 202 AW. For a larger backpack I use the FlipSide 500 AW II which will hold a DSLR with a 150-600 mounted. (In case you wonder about the difference between version II and the original bag, the body-side access “door” has increased tremendously in size, and so have the pockets in the “door”, now offering room for a laptop. And an extra removable pouch has been added). But I use large shoulder bags a lot, since I often just carry my gear between house and car. The modular system of your bag seems quite nice, but I have bags enough now to last me a lifetime. And doesn’t the name “f-stop” just scream photography? And in large white letters too.

  • @frstesiste7670
    @frstesiste76703 жыл бұрын

    My favorite camera pack is an Atlas Athlete. Really excellent when I need photo equipment plus a fair amount of extra clothing, food etc. Still looking for the perfect pack for daily use. I need one that will hold a camera with one lens, a travel tripod (inside) and my laptop + some groceries when I shop on my way home. A LowePro Photo Active BP 300AW was extremely close to ideal until I got a workstation class 15" laptop at work that's half an inch too wide for the laptop compartment. The search starts again.

  • @mikefoster6018
    @mikefoster6018 Жыл бұрын

    I just bought this bag, based on videos like this. I've only taken it out once, so can't say about its long-term use, but it feels amazing. The 'pro small' camera box I bought to put inside it is a tailored fit, and the whole set-up feels really sturfy - including what I presume is a padded metal frame that goes around the inside to keep the backpack's shape. Lovely stuff. I was going to get the 20L Peak Design one instead (as I really like their 6L slingbag and wrist strap) but I heard it was a bit over-engineered and someone said the back straps are really close together at the top. (I also experience that problem others have with Peak Designs' 5L slingbag, where the zip broke really fast, although they replace dit with the 6L for free ... possibly at the expense of the guarantee). Anyway, love this F-Stop Guru backpack.

  • @BrendanEvan
    @BrendanEvan2 жыл бұрын

    Best review I’ve seen of this bag!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, i'm still using it every day!

  • @DimusTech
    @DimusTech3 жыл бұрын

    I'm mostly using the Peak Design Everyday backpack 20L v1, I love it mostly but sometimes I felt like I need more place for gear or to bring some more cloths, So I've got the Lowepro fastpack 250 aw iii pro which is bigger but actually lighter, I usually take that one when I know I'll need to buy something on the way or to put a coat or most of the times when I take the 100-400mm lens. Though I'm not a big KZreadr as you are, I did review those 2 on my channel.

  • @messylaura
    @messylaura3 жыл бұрын

    looks like a decent bit of kit, i don't use a back pack that often but i have the mindshift 18L

  • @daisukevideo
    @daisukevideo3 жыл бұрын

    There are various types of camera backpacks! I also wanted this camera bag ♬ Video Very easy to understand and interesting‼ Thank you. With love from Japan :)

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Do itashimashite!

  • @matt_phistopheles
    @matt_phistopheles3 жыл бұрын

    I had the Guru for a few weeks but it was too small for my needs. Great bag though. Bought an Ajna instead and I couldn't be happier.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Glad you found the right one for you! Yes, the Guru is small, but I like that for general use.

  • @thefailingstudent
    @thefailingstudent3 жыл бұрын

    got the guru ul and anja. the guru for carry on/traveling, and the anja for day/1night hikes. both do well. But this year i decided to make my own backpack. think guru, anja, and shimoda action x30 rolled into one. Its modular, fits fstop icu's, toploading(my preferred way of using a backpack), smallish(expandable), and it only sticks 6.5 in from my back. Roughly the same size of the action x30, but can extend in height and depth (when going city to city with some clothes). I made it with public transport in mind. It has a internal separator like the x30 so stuff doesnt fall into my camera cube(one of the annoying things about my guru, little things end up were the camera is). the top is zippered like the anja. once the pandemic is done I plan on using it on my abudabi trip.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Excellent! Please link to any photos you have of it!

  • @AdeRussell
    @AdeRussell3 жыл бұрын

    Peak Design Everyday Backpack for most everyday and urban use. Atlas athlete for landscape and more serious travel. Both excellent.

  • @anthonyalongi3432
    @anthonyalongi34323 жыл бұрын

    I have the exact same bag. Best I ave ever used!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Glad you like it!

  • @HungNguyen-yg6dq
    @HungNguyen-yg6dq3 жыл бұрын

    I have the f-stop Kenti! That is one amazing bag!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    That is a nice pack.

  • @billz4795
    @billz47958 ай бұрын

    Had one - the original with a medium ICU. Major issue was with the size of the rear panel could not fully access the ICU. Went to Lotus 32L no PR with access AND love the clam shell top access and storage BUT bag is to large. Redesign the Guru similar to the lotus with full rear access and clam shell to and I'm back. The backlight 26l is good but Guru with these updates would be perfect. F stop are you listening.

  • @KeithCarmichaelInFL
    @KeithCarmichaelInFL3 жыл бұрын

    I always use my bike bag/messenger bag. They tend to be made with weather protection in mind and the unconventional style always puts my gear in easy reach.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I used to like Messenger bags, but they ended up hurting my shoulders and posture.

  • @kodefashmodefa
    @kodefashmodefa3 жыл бұрын

    The bag I like is that new lowepro fast pack I think it’s called. My biggest issue is every darn lowepro bag screams “HEY!!!! PRICEY STUFF IN HERE!!!” If I could get the all the features without the wild camera bag coloring for a budgetographer price.

  • @toomuchkit964
    @toomuchkit9643 жыл бұрын

    Hi Gordon many thanks for another great review. Not perfect but my favourite bag so far is the stupidly named Wandrd Prvke 31, about the same weight as the Fstop, very robust, discreet with extendable roll top. Also has different cubes and there is a smaller model should you need it.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks, I'll check it out!

  • @messylaura
    @messylaura3 жыл бұрын

    The bag i use the most for general walk about is shoulder type bags, if i have just M50 with a native M mount lens ot two a normal shoulder bag is big enough, if i want to take out the M50 with a sigma 100-400 and a couple other smaller lenses then i have two identical ladies shoulder bags i sewn together to make a large double space bag, the side the big lens is in folds flat when its out being used, in both cases it just looks like a normal bag not a specific camera bag. its more to match the type of clothes i wear, a big chunky 'camera bag' or back pack doesnt really suit a dress and heels outfit. due to the amount of time being shut inside because of the many lockdowns i've definatly been feeling the cold alot more when going out this winter so boots and jeans is something i've been wearing alot more so the backpack blends in a bit more. Gordon, one item i really would like is an outex style waterproof bag / condom for my camera but its getting up there for price, any up coming videos on good water proof camera gear both for heavy rain and accidental drops in a pond?

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I used to like shoulder bags, but they hurt me now!

  • @adamradford
    @adamradford3 жыл бұрын

    Just got my hands on the F-Stop Lotus from the mountain series, ended up with it for the extra space to take layers off and because it looked sturdier than the UL series

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    They're definitely sturdier, I can chuck my Loka around!

  • @gz-n3gzmail142
    @gz-n3gzmail1423 жыл бұрын

    Ironic that this video came out as I've been thinking about the Guru fstop bags. I bought a Satori many years ago, still have it, never used it. Simply, due to the travel photography I was doing was stopped dead because of injury and illness at the same time. The addition of my move to Fuji for landscape stuff has kept it in the wardrobe. I still think they are great bags for travel which is why I haven't got rid of it when I've sold off other unused items. My thinking now is to buy a XL ICU and use it as my dslr sports bag.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I heard you thinking about it, so made the video just for you! In fact you can see my Fuji kit inside the small shallow ICU during this video - it fits great and leaves me loads of space.

  • @gz-n3gzmail142

    @gz-n3gzmail142

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs lol... Nice one. I already have the med slope and pro sml icu, which is why I am thinking about the guru to make use of them.... Decisions! Decisions!.... as Henry VIII once said " will someone rid me of these bags"

  • @stevemiller1085
    @stevemiller10852 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for the review. I have been looking for a hiking style bag that can carry more than just camera equipment, but it is only for day hikes so i dont need anything too big. Just my camera gear and tripod, some clothes, safety equipment, food and water and usually a mini stove. My camera gear is a Panny G9 with a couple of lenses and sometimes a GoPro with a carry handle. But i will be upgrading to a full frame camera by the end of the year. Canons new cheaper RF lenses made up my mind for me, such as the 16mm 2.8 that i saw you video on last week. The Guru will also be a carry on bag for me occasionally, so i like the idea of being able to remove the ICU and fill the bag with extra clothes until i get to where i am going. To this point i have been using a Tenba Fulton 14 as a day pack, which i absolutely love. I just wish they made it slightly bigger.. 25L would be perfect. Also thanks for showing off some different ICU options in detail, that was almost as helpful as the actual bag review. Great job.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    You're very welcome! I still love this bag!

  • @stevemiller1085

    @stevemiller1085

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs My bag finally arrived the other day and i think it will be almost perfect to my needs. I was a bit worried that it might be too big as most F-Stop bags are pretty big. But it is the perfect size. And i was interested to see the build quality as some people seemed worried by the newer light weight design, but all i can say is that if this is considered the lighter and weaker design then the Mountain series bags must be very impressive. The only con i can really see is that i wish you could remove the waist straps as i wont need them when i use this as my every day bag. But i will just strap them backwards around the bag as i have done in the past with other bags. So again, thanks for the review. Ive been looking for that perfect backpack for a long time and was reluctant to get an expensive F-Stop bag as i couldnt view one before purchasing. So i really took this review at face value and took the risk, and i am very happy with the result.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@stevemiller1085 glad it's worked out for you!

  • @stevemiller1085

    @stevemiller1085

    2 жыл бұрын

    Ok so I've now had this bag for a few months and I only just today worked out that the aluminium frame and back support are totally removable. That makes this bag even better if you are just after an every day backpack and don't need any additional rigidity or support.. but its there if you want it without destroying the bag. Brilliant!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@stevemiller1085 I may try that out!

  • @NN-bk5bb
    @NN-bk5bb Жыл бұрын

    Thanks

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    Жыл бұрын

    Thanks, much appreciated!

  • @mountainhobo
    @mountainhobo3 жыл бұрын

    1:21 "Doesn't necessarily scream out that it is carrying expensive camera gear" -- Huge blazing "F-Stop" logo. Yeah, right. // Edit -- 1 1/2 minutes later: They have their screaming white logo on everything, on every side, every corner, even on a strap. Are they insane? It may be a nicely designed backpack, but it's like carrying a sign "come steal me". Thieves aren't stupid.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I disagree. Hardly any non-photographers know what f-stop means, and of those who do, how many are thieves? Coming from the other direction, how many photographers are gear thieves? I suspect not many. So the only people who know what the logo means are pretty unlikely to rob you. Plus, if you are concerned, it's easy to remove or colour-out the logo - much easier than changing the shape of a bag or its access.

  • @mrhelichopper
    @mrhelichopper3 жыл бұрын

    Nice review, as always Gordon. If you have the opportunity to look at a Peak Design Everyday Backpack it would be great to hear your opinion in comparison to this pack. Thanks for the great channel and best wishes.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks! I've actually never seen a Peak bag, but they do get a LOT of coverage, so I think they're sorted on that front.

  • @paulcritchley464
    @paulcritchley4643 жыл бұрын

    So you lived in NZ for awhile Did you ever go tramping? Now that is an art in carrying your camera gear and a weeks gear and food and keeping it all dry. In the Tararua ranges it rains 8 days a week as the going says Nice review Gordon

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks! I actually moved to NZ mostly for the tramping! Lived in Queenstown for 6 years, so got to really explore the scenery - love it there!

  • @joewellham1
    @joewellham13 жыл бұрын

    Need to sew a sports bag logo on the F-stop one, no one is going to steal someones sweaty sports kit. I got a beautiful Billingham bag as a gift years ago, I only use it for storage in the house never outside for fear of being mugged.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Ah, the dilemma of the fancy Billingham!

  • @kaneclements7761
    @kaneclements77613 жыл бұрын

    Bag envy alert. I really like the look of the UL. I use a Lowepro Flip Side, which is good. It isn't as flexible as your f-Stop. Mine cost quite a lot less than the f-Stop, though looking at the UL I think I may have made a mistake and shouldn't have been so tight. Mine cost just over £100 on special and is very well made, built in rain cover etc. etc. For street I use a Crumpler Multi 4500 messenger bag which is really robust and well made. Only trouble is it struggles to take more than the X-T 4 or X-S 10 plus two lenses. I could do with something just that bit bigger to take the body, a 23mm prime plus the 16-80 and the 55-200. Gordon, any suggestions?

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I did like the Crumplers, but found they didn't make efficient use of space on the models I owned. Maybe have a look at the other f-stop bags as they do more than just backpacks...

  • @kaneclements7761

    @kaneclements7761

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs Hi Gordon. Thanks, brill I'll take a look. It is a pain at the moment trying to source a new bag as I like to get hands on. The internet doesn't really give one enough of an idea of the product. I've cast my eye over Vanguard (!) and Lowepro's offerings are no bigger than the Crumpler. I used to use the M50 for carry round. and one could get the body and the entire range of lenses plus sandwiches in the Crumpler. No longer alas. ;-)

  • @bosiefoobar
    @bosiefoobar2 жыл бұрын

    Thank you very much for the review, interesting bag. but how do you prevent your 'daypack' fall behind the ICU or worse, into the ICU? it doesn't seem to have any real divider between icu and daypack?

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    good question, it can happen, but doesn't tend to very often, especially if you're careful with what goes immediately above the ICU.

  • @bosiefoobar

    @bosiefoobar

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs thank you very much for the quick reply, i ordered one now!

  • @FILMFRAT
    @FILMFRAT3 жыл бұрын

    Hey really love your content this is amazing. What is your preferred editing software you use for videomaking , I'd love to have a conversation and maybe even collaborate on different ways in telling stories through film!

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Thanks! I just use FCPX

  • @FILMFRAT

    @FILMFRAT

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs looks great!

  • @meibing4912
    @meibing49123 жыл бұрын

    Nice but have to agree on the logo. Got a new RF-lens directly from Canon yesterday. It came in a 100% anonymous box - not even saying Canon as the sender on the package slip. Inside the cardboard box I found to my surprise a 100% colorful glossy printed inside saying "Canon" in big red on white letters all over. Go figure...

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I'm all for discretion! As I've said elsewhere here though, I don't think many potential thieves will connect the word f-stop with valuable camera gear. Most people have no idea what it means, plus you can always colour it in.

  • @AjaySingh-228
    @AjaySingh-2283 жыл бұрын

    Nice bag sir..i like it

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I like it too!

  • @AjaySingh-228

    @AjaySingh-228

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs ha ha okay

  • @iemboyshostel
    @iemboyshostel3 жыл бұрын

    Hi Gordon, Did you ever tried to fit it under a airplane seat? Just curious. Also i am looking for insurance for my camera. If you know any please let me know. Thanks

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    I never put anything below the seat as it always gets kicked from behind! But it is pretty compact and easily fits in the bins above.

  • @Casualfulltime
    @Casualfulltime6 ай бұрын

    Amazing backpack. I love mine yet the blue straps are ugly IMO. Black would be better but I guess they don't sell the features do they. Also what happened to backpacks being made of a single material? It's hard to see online and even via these reviews that multiple materials are used throughout that include elasticated mesh, rubberised bottom, then the main body of the back being a more traditional woven material. From my own experiences having so many 'over engineered' features/ materials often end in failures. I guess time will tell but until then I'm loving the pack.

  • @kilohotel6750
    @kilohotel67503 жыл бұрын

    I've got four bags depending on the use. I don't think I will ever find the perfect bag that does everything.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Definitely. There's no perfect bag - or perfect anything - just some that hopefully come close.

  • @skakdosmer

    @skakdosmer

    3 жыл бұрын

    A perfect bag would be one that would hold a ton of gear and still be small and light to carry.

  • @russia274
    @russia2742 жыл бұрын

    What is the weight of the empty bag? Website shows 2.6lbs but wanted to confirm that was without ICU. If that’s 2.6 with ICU then it becomes a worthy competitor to much cheaper Lowepro Flipside Trek BP 350 AW which is 3lbs

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    2 жыл бұрын

    I actually just weighed my Guru UL empty with no ICU for my latest video on travelling light, and it was about 1.1kg or about 2.42 lbs.

  • @Trevellian
    @Trevellian3 жыл бұрын

    The large "F-Stop" logos give it away as a camera bag. A nice design, but an unobtrusive camera bag it's not.

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    Yes and no. I agree it's a clue for another camera owner, but if you're not au-fait with the terms, then I'd say most people wouldn't make the connection.

  • @Trevellian

    @Trevellian

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs Many people who aren't camera-people know F Stop is associated with cameras. Especially so in recent years, as cell phone manufacturers make frequent mention of F Stops when describing the benefits of their phone's photo capabilities. Understand that "F Stop" corporation wants their logo to be seen, but their chosen moniker is an extremally poor match for a bag carrying perhaps ten thousand or more (dollars, pounds, euros) in electronics and optics. For me, that logo is reason enough to choose a rival brand.

  • @garyjones4321

    @garyjones4321

    4 ай бұрын

    not true.@@Trevellian

  • @AoyagiAichou
    @AoyagiAichou3 жыл бұрын

    Doesn't have a quick side access. Dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned. I still have yet to find anything better than Manfrotto Manhattan 50L backpack. Edit: actually I meant Manfrotto Pro Light RedBee 310

  • @cameralabs

    @cameralabs

    3 жыл бұрын

    50L! Crumbs, that's a big one. I quite like side-access for convenience, although again it presents more chances for unwanted access.

  • @AoyagiAichou

    @AoyagiAichou

    3 жыл бұрын

    @@cameralabs Gah, sorry, I meant Manfrotto Pro Light RedBee 310. Wrong backpack >. But yeah, I understand the security angle.

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