On stream, sfia said he didn't want the tome limit doubled but the cost of gear halved which makes sense as it doesn't require you to play double the amount of time.

@austins.2495

Жыл бұрын

Yea, having the cost halved would be way more helpful once you think about it

@rodrigomoreira2629

Жыл бұрын

Or just make the rewards from roulettes doubled. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me as long as one of the 2 happens, 450 tomes (with the current cost for gear) is waaaaaaay too low for a game that has 19 jobs that one can potentially play

@chrisanderson7820

Жыл бұрын

Best option

@terminalarch6767

Жыл бұрын

@@rodrigomoreira2629 still 450? wow. I mean this was a compaint that was being made as far back as storm blood/hw even but its definitely more prominent with that many more jobs. I think mathed out it would have taken over 2 years to get every piece of gear for every class, before they added like 4 more jobs. jf they never came out with new tomes or patches and the tome limit stayed. Add in 4 -6 new jobs to gear, if you were to level everything, and it becomes pretty obvious

@NinjaFrog65

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, this seems like a great idea! Also gives people more reason to interact with Duty Finder, which (possibly) helps amend the healer draught!

It’d be cool if the cost of tomestone gear dropped after you bought the first of a “piece”. For example, first chest piece is 825, but every chest piece for any other job after is like 250 tomes or something. That way, people can still funnel their gear into their main the first few weeks of a tier and by the time they’re ready to gear alt jobs they can get multiple pieces in a week.

@erwark

Жыл бұрын

Cool idea, however the actual slots you want will be different for different jobs. Maybe you want tome legs for healer and body for caster, in which case this doesn't help you. Maybe a rewards card that offers a growing discount based on tomes already spent?

@rtbear674

Жыл бұрын

@@erwark I think they can make it works lore wise. They got new materials to test make a new set of gear. so the first few orders will be part of trial and error. After a while they are getting better at handling those gears, and getting easier to mass produced. I think they can use timing discount too. like each week after the first week got 8% discount till 50% max or so. If you reached end game in the middle of the patch, why do you need to wait for another 8 weeks to get good gear for your first character while you are already late for months.

@MemoryMori

Жыл бұрын

Interesting idea... Im in for it.

@p2k9

Жыл бұрын

@@rtbear674 I wish they did that with the relic quests. Even this recent one, 1500 tomes for your first weapon, then they could have been like "yeah we realized 3 meteorite is too much" or "we got better at refining" and drop it to need only 2 pieces.

@Greg31558

Жыл бұрын

I like the idea, except maybe instead of making the second piece for a slot cheaper, maybe instead make it purchasable for more of the secondary tomestone. Like, instead of your second chest piece being 825 causality tomestones, make it available for like 1650 astronomy tomestones. That'll incentivize the duties that give more astronomy tomestones and won't penalize your gearing your main job with the causality tomestones by having to spend part of your 450 weekly cap on alts. Or heck, do both!

Feelings of despair, when you want to switch main mid tier.

When you look at bis set for almost every job you can't help but feel the progression is downright maliciously broken on purpose. It can't be a coincidence that almost nobody cares for raid pants while simultaneously the tomestone chest piece is useless to nearly everyone. The gear progression is rigid, lopsided and unsatisfying when the third boss in a tier is only a twine dispenser while there is an artificial shortage of chest pieces from the final boss.

@24hr-Gaming

Жыл бұрын

Yes it is a very pants on head thing for a lot of classes to need three twines and it's not even an accidental thing. And since bis substats are so rigid to begin with, augmented tome gear should just have the same substats as raid gear.

Whenever Speed is brought up, I’m surprised Piety isn’t mentioned at the same time. Every healer has like 4 different BiS sets cause of different Piety values, and slotting into higher Piety values so you don’t Oom always feel bad cause you know you’re lowering your output. Piety needs to buff Healing and Damage output to some extent so it at least doesn’t feel like garbage to stay into.

@ehko9989

Жыл бұрын

We already have a similar stat : tenacity. Guess what happens even when tenacity is supposed to increase damage, nobody wants it. My point is, if you give damage output to a "utility" stat like piety or tenacity, you'll always end up in either the damage increase is as high as the dedicated damage substats or higher so the "utility" substat will prevail and you'll end up with the same issue down the line but for the dedicated damage substats instead ; or the damage increase is too low and it doesn't see any use (like the current tenacity). In a game where damage is key to everything, I'd argue that having a variety of substats is meaningless. You'll always want to meld for the highest damage increasing substat as much as possible and that's it. There was a time where some jobs had an agenda regarding substats because of how the jobs' kits were made (SB and ShB war for example) but people ended up complaining because they couldn't play the other jobs of the role at their best, rightfully so.

@PokechampionJade

Жыл бұрын

@@ehko9989 The main difference is that Piety's utility is actually useful. Healers wouldn't have 4 different BiS sets at varying piety values if MP regen didn't matter. If Piety gave output there's the possibility that a Crit/Pie piece give more output than a Det/SpS piece. Tenacity sucks because the defensiveness actually just doesn't matter.

@SaraHungary

Жыл бұрын

Yes I also think the only substat which doesn't provide damage and is useful and you can adjust the amount to your needs is Piety. As a healer main I always grab extra Piety pieces so when I am doing harder content (like Ultimate prog) I can mix and match my gear for the piety value I need.

@ehko9989

Жыл бұрын

@@PokechampionJade I'm no healer main, but every healer I played with as a static always used the lowest piety possible because it is just worse to have any investment in piety. The case could me made for pf parties, since you don't really have any control on what your other party members use as mitigation throughout a fight. But mana never was an issue in scenarios where we tried to clear. Unless you end up spamming heavy healing spells because of bad healing/mitigation cd management (which can definitely happen in pf) or spamming rez (which already tells you that things are not going well) you don't really have any mana issues in savage settings nowadays (as long as you do what you should do, which is using lucid and the mp regen part of your kit). I feel like piety is just a worse sks/sps, to me it's a comfy stat, but unlike sks which can be necessary to have a good rotation in specific cases (job specific stuff or fight specific timings) I don't see any situation where it is required (I don't have any insight regarding healing in ultimate though, so everything I'm saying is regarding savage and under in terms of difficulty). Anyway, that's just my experience and my opinion, good thing it generates a conversation.

@KoalaDonut

Жыл бұрын

@@ehko9989 I think the last time Piety made a difference was to increase MaxMP so that a Lalafell BLM could fit an extra fire spell into their rotation. That’s how long ago it’s been unless I’m missing something. In a general sense, if you “need” more MP as a healer to clear, people don’t know the fight well enough, and wiping is a better tool for learning than expecting a party’s healer to carry everyone across the finish line.

I kind of wish they would let us use upgrade items to upgrade alliance raid gear to cap to add more options

i like the idea of having an even further enhancement on crafted gear, have it require tomestones through rain and you also need the new material added in a given patch

The vertical and limited nature of FFXIV gearing has been a discussion for many many years. More options for reaching max ilvl would be very welcome. The tomestone/raid token system is far too limiting if you want to gear more than one job in a reasonable time frame. Thats why you see so many hardcore/week 1 groups do split clears. I don't have the time to raid anymore or even cap my tomes. I'm playing casually but at this rate I won't even be able to get into parties for the next EX unless I make my own.

@duerf5826

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know why tome cap is still a thing in this game. YoshiP don’t want people to login every day but the weekly cap forces people to do just that.

@vrahnkeneisenbach9148

Жыл бұрын

The horizontal vs vertical progression dilemma has plagued MMOs forever. My solution to the problem would basically be to make levels/gear in a MMO world be rendered useless upon traveling to a new expansion area (story-wise perhaps these could be entirely different dimensions with different rules?) and you have to start all over again, but then certain gear/content would require quests that span multiple expansion areas in order to get gear/important items across the many different regions to be able to stand up to "ultimate" content.

@DawnAfternoon

Жыл бұрын

@@duerf5826 The cap can stay as is, they can instead make the tome gear cheaper, like halving their prices.

@James-kv3ll

Жыл бұрын

Wait you don’t raid…. but you’re worried about not getting into parties? For what?

@twelvesevven4678

Жыл бұрын

​@@duerf5826 I've been playing for 4 years logging in once a week.

I agree with what was discussed on the forum post. There is too much to try to get in too little time and because of it, the dps checks in savage are just tight enough, gear-sets are melded with just the right materia for all 8 part members, and the sheer toxicity that exists in party finder once anything is cleared has become a little unbearable. I’m not coming here with a solution pulled out of my ass because I’m not a game designer and I don’t think anyone in comment section really is either. I’m not a high end raider who only wants that i6XX gear by the end of the seventh week. I’m not an influencer that can whisper into YoshiP’s ear to tell him any bit of cringe criticism I may have. I am a middle of the line casual/hardcore wanna be because raiding in party finder isn’t worth the gear. I wish it was easier to get into the experience of raiding. Not the difficultly of the game, but the social and gear requirements to simply begin playing the game. I wish the game were harder. I wish that some jobs would be remade or given changes to make them better. But I also wish that just getting into a raid didn’t require me to have to clear, reclear, rereclear the savage fight just to apply. The few that don’t never get filled after a few weeks in. The sheer toxic nature of some individuals make or break a party in as few as 3 pulls of the boss. I personally don’t find that 10 ilvls are worth dealing with the sheer tomfuckery that is the current raiding mentality. I wish I could do current tier savage and ultimates. I wish I could find a static. But that’s not going to happen. Maybe making different gear to be BiS to fill in different spots that tomes and raids would usually fill would help. Maybe making the tome gear cheaper would fix it? I wouldn’t know and it’s not my place to figure that out. What I do know is that as someone who wants to do current tier content, I am unable to interact with anything current tier and that’s part of the game I have to live with.

the main issue i have with sub stats is, if you dont have one of these auto-crits, NOT hitting a direct critical on your big hitter feels so bad, when i see my Double Down Direct Critical its usually around 67k for me, a normal hit is barely 30k... it feels so bad to see.

Accessories should be 2 books, Head/Hands/Feet 4 books, weapon/body/legs 6 books. You should be able to buy a Twine, coating or brine for 2 books of last fight.

One issue I have with some of the ideas that come up around this topic is that to a degree, if they are going to make stats impact gameplay more, they need to make it easier to get the exact substats that you want, such as allowing you to select what stats are on your gear like you can with relic weapons or how its done in GW2. Imo it doesn't feel good to have my gameplay gated behind having certain gear (see any pre-bis BLM dealing with their sps) On that note, I actually think it would be cool if savage gear had infinitely changeable substats, so it is just automatically BiS for every job. Like tome gear could be just as powerful, but the appeal of savage gear would be that its both strong and flexible.

@incognisance4293

Жыл бұрын

You suggestion doesn’t solve the issue imo. Because once raiders have cleared and farmed, there is no reason to get times at all other than for glam…

@thanatos113

Жыл бұрын

@@incognisance4293 I wasn't trying to solve an issue. I was just saying that if they do change how stats work, I want substats to be easier to get, and I gave an idea for a way to make savage gear feel more special. This is all completely separate from what Happy/Sfia talked about

I totally agree that in the end these are just "what if this game was even better?" types of problems... As a non-raider I really have no complaints about gearing since I just choose my "main" for the patch and be happy; the only issue as many pointed out comes when you want to try other jobs and the general consensus of "acceptable ilvl" is pretty weird and unforgiving for most people trying out other jobs... I couldn't join extreme, criterion or even unreal on a job I only have crafted for because of this and their base minimum ilvl is way lower. Definitely getting out of hand!

@AdrasAdraki

Жыл бұрын

For someone who doesnt interact with that part of the game and they dont care as strongly for gearing i can see how that woild apear as a "what if this game was better". For ppl that do however that goes beyond how this could be even better and starts to reach how this could be good or great even instead of underwhelming or frankly weak.

@Qazqi

Жыл бұрын

To gate unreal is incredibly stupid. Its max ilvl is 565, well below crafted, so anyone basing the req on the usefulness of the gear itself has no idea what they're doing. The only reason people would have to gate it higher is to attract people who have put time/effort into a job enough to gear it by then and hope that person plays better. However, that's still hostile to alt jobs of people who play just fine. It also gets less useful over time as it becomes easier and easier to push one job's ilvl higher with no skill.

@stealthassassin7

Жыл бұрын

The main reason why people gate content with a specific item level is simply because a higher item level generally means more overall damage, more room for error and faster clears, which is usually the case for savage raids, criterion dungeons and maybe one or two of the current extreme trials. In addition, people with a higher item level are usually more likely to be better at their jobs than people who are lower, particularly if they got some of their gear from savage raids. Of course, the most important thing to consider is the player skill and knowledge of a fight, so even a person with a lower item level can out-perform higher item level players, but there is no way to determine player skill and fight knowledge in party finder. For something like Unreal though, there is no major reason to restrict content that has a max item level that's easy to hit, so it really doesn't make sense to do it there imo, except again if a person wants players who are likely more competent at their jobs than the average.

I would love a way to upgrade crafted gear to a level on par with either augmented tomestone gear. That'd be such a cool idea.

@SatellaEnvy

Жыл бұрын

Not up to the same ilvl as augmented, but there is a system to upgrade crafted by 10 ilvl using the secondary end-game tomes (currently the red ones, idr what they're called). They could definitely expand on this system or implement it earlier into a raid tiers life cycle as I think the way it is currently it's not even that relevant by the time it comes out, especially since by then, many savage pf groups lock ilvl 5 or so below full BiS.

@TheAuron32

Жыл бұрын

@@SatellaEnvy yeah, it needs to be added to earlier for sure, maybe a "savage crafting" weekly token or something? i dunno, im just throwing shit at a wall here lol. the reason i feel this could be good is it keeps crafters (and gatherers) relevant for longer, it means all kinds of players are valued, i dont touch savage, its not for me (after a MASSIVE fight years ago) but i do help gear my FC and friends.

@mamayareborn

Жыл бұрын

Why would players be rewarded with Savage-level gear via not playing Savage? Having the time restriction on acquisition of gear upgrades ensures that gear balancing remains good. You'll eventually get that 630 stuff, but only after everybody else who actually worked for it did. There's no reason why clicking a macro should award you with gear of the same power as me progging P8S for two weeks. That's ridiculous.

Would it be better if after the first time you buy a piece for tomestones/tokens/books/whatever all subsequent pieces, in that slot and for that same currency, for all roles were half off? Would that alleviate some of the pressure on gearing other jobs/roles? It would benefit more casual players as well, more glamour, etc. I guess the main concern is the database impact on tracking it.

@Cassapphic

Жыл бұрын

You could make an item that gives you a 50% off coupon that s given to you when you buy a tomestone piece?

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

There is too much variance between which role wants which slot from tomes. It would definitely have to be more lenient than just "that slot", because that would still probably restrict you out of, say, being both caster and healer. (I pick this because, as far as i can remember, for every tier since i started raiding, healers would want savage pant tome chest, caster the reverse, being the most expensive pieces still)

What if for a gearing option they added sunburst gear into variant dungeons?

One of the problems if you unlock tome gear earlier is 24 man gear unless the ilvl is upped to the level of upgrades tome gear

@austins.2495

Жыл бұрын

I hope English isn’t your first language

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

24 man gear should not be on par with the augmented tome and savage gear. At most, 5 ilvl higher than it currently is. It could end up as BiS otherwise and would heavily impact balancing choices going forward (and also having BiS items reliant on massive rng is a terrible idea, heavensward vets can tell you that)

This is incredibly timely. I'm currently gearing Red Mage, Ninja, Bard, and Gunbreaker, and having artificial gear ceilings on omniclassing is a huge bummer. I wish we had, at minimum, a progressing tomestone cap increase patch to patch. 450 on patch day, 900 on the odd patch,and 2k cap by echo patch would be awesome. With the addition of Criterion Dungeons and the job balance really being problematic in 4 person content, it being almost impossible to cross gear is obnoxious. Long standing gear acquisition issues coming back to the fore again. Any alternative that does a similar thing with easing gear acquisition outside of the World First month would be amazing.

That mastery idea is really interesting, does anyone know the video where he talks about it?

@ThatRedHusky

Жыл бұрын

Its a stat from WoW. It a special stat that changes based on what spec you are playing.

@toychristopher

Жыл бұрын

You could try WoW. They have a mastery stat.

@shinon748

Жыл бұрын

Mastery is a stat from WoW. What it does changes between each spec and class. Mastery once an elemental shaman gives each lightning spell a chance determined by your mastery to happen twice for 60% damage. On assassination rogue mastery increases the damage your poison DoTs deal. Mastery on blood death knight a tank made their self heal, death strike, give a absorption bubble effect equal to a percentage of the damage the skill does based on your mastery stat.

11:00 This is a more generalized problem I'm going to call Threshhold stats. As in, stats you only increase up to a threshhold, because it's not the stat itself that is desirable, but reaching the threshhold. Skill/Spell Speed, Piety, Tenacity, and the now deceased Accuracy substats are all threshhold substats. The added issue with Tenacity is that the threshhold is set at 0. But really, the problem is these stats aren't stats that reward you for having them, but rather they punish you for not having enough of them. The tank doesn't care if the buster brings him to 18% instead of 20%, as long as it keeps him from getting killed by the buster (or following autoattack). The healers don't care if they get 385 mana per tick instead of 350, as long as they get enough mana to last the entire fight (an average of 500 mana lost per minute is probably ideal). Nobody wants to cast faster than they have to for their rotation to work, cause that consumes more mana. So yeah. These substats are just unrewarding, and the game would probably be better off without them.

@TheAuron32

Жыл бұрын

another way to look it at is as mentioned, not all jobs want the same stats even in the same role, look at Warrior in the past, it HATED Direct Hit, the other 3? yeah "gimmie that direct hit!!!", I am unsure if Direct Hit is still bad on Warrior because I'm out of the loop lately but it is a real problem. i know Black Mage generally LOVES its Spell Speed but the other 2 casters, yeah not so much, same for Melee DPS, Monk doesnt really care for Skill Speed at all, its 2.0 attack speed is generally okay and more SkS tends be bad if i recall, but Samurai kind of needs a certain amont. Remember back when they said Speed Sub Stats would buff DoT Damage? clearly its not nearly enough to warrant its use.

@omegacloud222

Жыл бұрын

ive been vouching for a completely rework of substats for a long time. Substats and Materia need to be reworked in general. Remove slots from gear and move the slots to the weapon and job stone. Create materia that have generalized affects across all jobs thats interesting (like giving the choice of force crits on finishers instead of only the devs making that choice, or maybe a materia that lets you just generate more resources), and more specialized materia that affect each job individually but are similar enough that its easy to balance. The biggest problem is for this stuff to change, the 2 minute burst window meta has to go. It's made the combat very stale and stagnant. Not only that it 100% removes any flexibility for creativity.

Tomestones and other such endgame ilvl gear should honestly just be capped based on job rather than character. I don't know entirely how that would logistically work but I'm sure something could be worked out. I remember a while ago I started playing more characters and getting them all leveled up to play different jobs and bypass the tomestone cap, but then realized that there was a bunch of other stuff to do on the characters that made that a pain in the ass. I'd have to play through the story multiple times every time a new patch came out and unlock new things every time.

This is my third tier in ff and my inability to gear multiple jobs has been something I've really felt in 6.2, so to see top end players think similarly and to give their reasons for why is v interesting! What's changed for me is that I've started unsync speedrunning old content, and the fact that new gear comes out to essentially reset the leaderboards for content we don't one-shot is great imo. It's also great that different jobs excel in different areas of this speedrunning: NIN is unparalleled for movement, SAM/BLM are best when the limiting factor is damage, RPR/RDM/SMN are great when you need varying amounts of healing, tanks are required for certain things, etc. This all means that despite the relatively few players engaging in this, it never feels particularly stale. But then the gearing issue comes in, and you've gotta choose to focus on one at the detriment of others, and you've gotta focus on that one for _weeks_. This really limits what you can be competitive in, what others can be competitive in, and it turns what could be great into a hindrance. I know this is super niche, but how many other super niche pieces of content are there that suffer because you _can't_ actually do everything on one character?

Gear matters alot. Reason I don't play as much is because the gear, how you get it and how long it lasts.

I mean increasing the cap for tomestones will just increase the min ilvl for pf no? What if pf can't choose min ilvl for high end duties?

@inazumatan7050

Жыл бұрын

Then they’ll inspect you and kick you out when you get inside or ask you to link your gear 😅

@vVvErBarba

Жыл бұрын

@@inazumatan7050 yh I was thinking the same. Still one could report that behaviour I think

I'm wondering if materia should be less about damage and more about augmenting the playstyle of jobs via utility. Examples would be: - increases cure potencies by 5% - MP costs decreased by 5% - Radius of Aoe actions increased by yalms - Combo actions grant additional amount of gauge (indirect damage but not variant like Crit/DH) - Incoming heals increased by 5% Obviously with so many materia slots, these would be broken. I'm not a fan of the current substat system.

I main astro, haven't missed a week capping my tomes, and I'm still not i615. I can't join any pf to even attempt the fights. I use the base raids to gear my other classes while I use tome for my main. So I would have had to funnel every gearing option I had at my healer and waste the base raid pieces that I would just end up getting rid of after like a month.

One simple thing SE could do would be incress the cap of tombstones you can get each week to 600. After a month you would have 2,400 which is more than enough to buy all accessories and something else. Adjusting the purchase rate to fully tome gear out a class to 2 months. This would not stop the larger problem of gearing, though it would speed up the process. Another thing that could be done is to allow the upgrade tokens to be bought on the X.X.5 patch for sacks of nuts. Maybe even reducing the number of sacks needed for the token. 1,000 for shine and 1,500 for twine. Then in the following major patch you have the coin for upgrade tokens. Finally make the coin only needed for the current tier token. It was silly needing to run the Full Nier raid to get the upgrade token in the 5.5.

As someone who came in from other communities, games like Destiny have PVP and exploration, special quests and relics included in end-tier gearing. Not as "on first step the relic is better than hard core raid gear" but "this has different stats, perks, options". Week 1 raiding in Destiny 1 + 2 will feature people in myriad unmatching armor because the option to spread out and try different pieces of the content spread meant you could gear up to raid-level and allowed rapid iteration on gear optimization. It also meant the funnel to spend currency didnt exist as strongly, and people were allowed within certain reason to run whatever felt fun instead of "the One True Correct Gear Set". This would also give space for other substat criteria, like critsack stats or giving doubledip substats (like a double crit piece with 0 in other substats). This would also give options for changing tenacity/piety and making them substantial, and increasing their lean on the impact of substats in general. Bring back the pink tier gear from ARR, slap a new name on it and allow it to have experimental substats or ways of obtaining.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

destiny has a much more skill-intensive combat system, its not comparable. In ff14, everything is numbers. In destiny, even the best weapon can do 0 dmg if you dont hit lol

@kiyoskedante

Жыл бұрын

@@ich3730 destiny has tiered armor points towards various stats and that's where the endgame paths come from - iL and substats come from multiple venues instead of just raid and tome. This is like writing off an entire well posited essay because you don't like the color the font was printed in.

@kiyoskedante

Жыл бұрын

@@ich3730 this is also to say, iL differences between encounters and gear just becomes numbers as well. Click on heads with a weak stat and you do 0 numbers.

a good example of alt gear that is relevant was the pyros gear in stormblood. it was not max gear. but was still hella good and bis for alot of classes

@TheAuron32

Жыл бұрын

pretty sure BLU's BiS uses some of that, i know its not really relevant but still, sort of shows your point.

@jtwhat3004

Жыл бұрын

@@TheAuron32 ya. I remember one class that the bis was almost always a non standard gear (non tome or savage gear) would be paladin. they almost always had at least one piece of gear last expansion that was not the cap ilvl.

The other day I just wanted to do my weekly Sephi Ex. Min Ilvl to do it is 580 and I cleared it several times completely fine being fully 610 crafted and melded, but I couldn't join any because all groups set it to ilvl 620+ xD It was so frustrating...

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

Hold on, why 620+? Doesnt the fight sync to like 600 or smth

@jessem.4214

Жыл бұрын

@@ensamvarg8504 Not even that high; Sephirot Unreal syncs to 565 (and so will every Unreal for the rest of EW, I think). So I assume the high ilvl locks are people thinking "someone who's been doing Savage will be good enough that we'll clear without issues"? And I can kinda understand that, but it's an awkward way of handling it.

Personally I think one alternative for armor and accessories is having job gear not be something that you get early and then just throw away almost immediately. Make job specific gear that you get at max level (or max level-1 in the case of EW) consistently upgradable like a relic, using upgrade materials that come from savage raids and savage criterion dungeons. That kind of system would also be the perfect place to put designs like the current Abyssos raid gear that has fancy particle effects and the like.

@catboy_on_main

Жыл бұрын

I agree accept for still needing to do savage for it. I would like to see the job gear to be treated just like the relic weapons. A lil grind heavy but smth a more casual or midtier player could work on to get gear comperable to savage/upgraded tome sets. Still locking it behind savage makes it just as exclusive and a pain to get.

@GambeTama

Жыл бұрын

@@catboy_on_main I recall Eureka had a systme like that, where you could upgrade your relic armor for the first area, got nothing in the second, then got an entirely new set in the third which upgraded in the fourth. Now I am not entirely sure how that would play out here, but I would be happy for a set of "role armor" that you could work on over the course of a couple weeks to make raid relevant if someone was so dedicated or inclined.

Great reference to Sfi in the thumbnail

I like all the roles, and I like playing them all. Which means I basically have to choose which one of the four roles (I include support as a role in this), and then get bored to tears eventually by playing only that one for a couple of months. Or maybe it's burnout. Either or. Regardless, I would love to have a better way to get gear so I'm not stuck in one role.

@sdobitoo

Жыл бұрын

Why not get all the good loot for main job and get from it loot for other jobs It will take me 3 weeks to get my healer gear with current limitation.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

I... hate your definition of the roles. There are 5 roles, tank, healer, melee, ranged phys, caster. What kind of role is support even supposed to be, every role has at least one supporting class, thats not a role. Anyway, yes, that is the exact problem being described in the video. One thing you can do, if you have the time and willpower, is having alts. Otherwise, well, youre by far not the only one, unfortunately. On a different note, if you already suspect burnout, you should probably step away from the game for a bit. Believe me, its really refreshing

Totally agree with your points on speed stats Haps. As a Red Mage/Summoner player right now... nothing makes me more sad than seeing Spell Speed on a new piece of i630 gear. It's ironic that Red Mage is the job that wants spell speed the LEAST because the faster cast doesn't help you get extra spells in, and it can cause clipping when too high where you can start casting a second spell before dual cast procs onto your status bar... meaning you can outpace your own major job feature. I remember early on with RDM, I was raiding with an RDM in a PUG that had Spell speed melded, and I would start a cast at the same time as them, their first cast would finish a fraction of a second before mine, and the dual cast happened at exactly the same time... and then the next cast would start right at the same time... Ultimately, from day 1, spell speed was worthless to Red Mage as Dual Cast's interaction with ability recasts equalized it against spell speed, and detracting from more useful stats. But I absolutely agree... the speed stats should be dropped. I don't even care if it's replaced.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

so everyone should just play at a given GCD? No customization anymore because what, RDM doesnt like the stat? xD

@Varizen87

Жыл бұрын

@@ich3730 I think you missed both Sfia and Hap's point? Speed is universally undesirable beyond a certain point. RDM is just an example of how bad it can get.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

@@ich3730 no class likes the stat and to some it becomes an actual massive hindrance. Theres no real customization to be had, the fast jobs are fast on their own, want to avoid speed because they would get too fast. The slow jobs generally dont want a lot of speed because it hampers their damage output by a large amount. All the ways that speed is currently used, is alignment of buffs. Nobody wants to customize it on a high-ish level of gameplay. Just get as much as needed and youre good. Which was a thing before and everyone hated it before. We do not need a repeat.

@Varizen87

Жыл бұрын

@@ensamvarg8504 not to mention how much worse speed was when we still had TP. Back then I was a Dragoon main, but when you outpaced the rate you regained tp you could end up slowing down your inputs waiting for invigorate to come back off cool down. As long as you never died, you probably didn’t need to worry, but dying as a monk was the end of the world, especially as you could quickly run out of TP at high speed even though your tp cost was lower. Speed has just always been a detriment historically. Shb just alleviated the issue some.

One thing that still confuses/annoys me about gearing is the fact the 24 man gear is largely irrelevant in terms of its stats the moment it releases because raiders have had 10ilv better gear for months and casuals get 10 ilvl better gear available to them starting the day the 24 man comes out. Would it really be a problem if 24 man gear was a 3rd max ilvl set in line with savage and augmented tom gear in the catch up patch so it was potentially relevant gear to everyone playing the game that patch.

I hope you feel better happy :)

I do agree with the fact that a lot of things in this post are just to make a what if question basically i do hope some of these are looked into for the future especially since this game is going to continue to be adding more and more jobs and with there current job release system ever since stormblood we have been receiving 2 new jobs with maybe either a game overhaul or reworks here and there too but mainly the 2 new jobs being added and having to gear another 2 jobs needs to be looked at at the very least. they did do some changes with this tier with the fact they lowered some gears book numbers down but we need it on a lot more stuff especially since again this game is designed to be played on just one character but again this is just to make it a bit better no matter what it will still be ff14 even if these changes dont ever come into the game its just to help make it better than it could be

for gearing my tunnel dream is right side going back to all classes, substats are removed from them and weighted more on left side, so you wanna one trick focus left side first, you wanna multi then focus right side, another possibility, make relic armor upgradable through the xpac with tomes or other resources

@Hyskaris

Жыл бұрын

They tried doing the latter with Eureka gear, everyone hated it because Eureka was a huge slog (at first). They semi-tried it again in Bozja and no one really used it bc the ilvl was always lower than tome gear (or right on par). The grinding it required was the major turn-off for both, but now people don't like the grinding instances anymore. So we're back to Heavensward era of relics. And unless they let us augment our base gear in this questline, we're basically just stuck with crafted/tome/raid gear.

For mastery: I think it's a little neat, but also with how XIV fights go, any "interesting" substat I feel like can't actually directly affect optimal DPS in a knowable way. Like, casters could have a "slidecast+" stat that minutely made slidecasting easier, but wasn't necessary if you knew your job well + your group was doing uptime strats, or everyone had access to a "death avoid" substat that gave you like an up-to 1% chance to be brought to 1 by fatal damage instead (some value low enough that nobody would rely on it, but it'd be fun+useful to see it trigger), or something that extended the Transcendent buff, reduced durability loss, reduced weakness timer, etc. But mastery that directly affects DPS (specific ability damage, procs, etc) will just be optimized exactly like current stats, due to the strict rotational nature of how FF14 jobs play out. For gear acquisition: It would be neat if there was some system that let you buy any upgraded tome/raid piece via weekly tomes, as long as you held that slot item for another job. Ex: if you had the abyssos tank chest, you can buy the healer abyssos chest for 500 non-weekly tomes, or something. That way, the gearing process for your main isn't any faster, but alt jobs aren't as hard to gear. Alternately: Once you have the (Raid Tier Final Boss kill x10) achievement, a new shop opens up for you that lets you buy the tome/raid gear for cheap, because by that point you've likely geared your main completely (and you have 8+ pages from each tier, so you could've had the chance to buy most pieces too). But that may cause issues with people bum-rushing 10 clears and then buying bis week 2 or something and annihilating parse runs or something.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

yeah it would be really fun to have rezzes gated by RNG xD

One of the reasons I stopped leveling every job to cap was it was never worth playing them because there ilvl will always be lower than your main. What is the point of having 14 different jobs is it now at cap if only one can be geared effectively. So I would just level one and shrug go play something else till more gear comes out for main

As far as yellow materia is concerned, I had a thought that they should probably make DH a DPS specific substat with yellow materia, boost the damage buff on tenacity to DET levels, and add a similar component to piety. This way crit would still be king, but then you'd meld your yellow stat as secondary priority and DET last.

Yknow substats have little impact if my fully chased tenacity warrior can still hit orange =3=

Been doing Criterion with my staic and since it 4 instead of 8 and I play tank but my co tank is also in that group meaning one of us was forced to play something else, my second geared job is healer but we also had the healer in the group. Meaning I had to end up playing Sam which I hadn't geared at all and had to prog it at 612 and I need to preferably focus on tank gear and healer gear for ultimate? Been a lot of fun but you definitely feel the lack of gear and now having to be on a break to do savage version as the sync is 635 which is definitely sadge. Keep hearing newer people saying "Oh you can play any job in FF14" which is true to a degree but on fresh high level content that is just not right.

I've noticed an even more extreme difference in crit playing on summoner. A normal Akh Morn for me currently hits for about 37k while a critical hit goes up to 64k and a direct crit is 75k. So we're looking at almost double damage completely locked behind RNG. The whole system just feels incredibly swingy, and makes me wish they'd just eliminate sub stats all together. They seem to be saying, at least with samurai, that skills will just automatically crit... but I don't think that's a good solution to it all.

@wizirbyman

Жыл бұрын

yeah, for classes that fully rely on 2 min timers, it's kind of sad how variable your parse will be depending on if you get the correct crits =/ not critting in bahamut during pot + 2 min cds means your damage is gonna be really low

@anthonydelfino6171

Жыл бұрын

@@wizirbyman it hurts my soul every time I get normal attacks from Bahamut....

@terfio

Жыл бұрын

@@wizirbyman same with Monk on their Blitzes or any hardhitting Skill you want to use at a specific time. Something inside me breaks every time Phantom Rush is a normal hit.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

pls no... you guys want the game to be so samey... Lets remove crits, lets remove jobs as well, its unfair that some jobs have to cast or be melee right? Lets all just use 2 skills that auto-crit, that way everything is fair!

@terfio

Жыл бұрын

@@ich3730 nobody said that. Don't project

I think they should alleviate some of these problems by expanding on the spirit bond system. Perhaps remove materia extraction altogether and instead full spirit bond can be used to enhance that gear piece somehow. Additional materia slot, increased defense, maybe even something like Eureka that gives elemental resistance. Essentially, more reason to continue playing that results in unique builds. Not sure how’d they balance around this, but I’d rather see a bit of imbalance if it meant having/seeing unique builds that people can express their play style with.

@sandm5171

Жыл бұрын

I should clarify too that the reason I think having “player choice” gear enhancements would alleviate some of these issues is it would take some of the hyper focus off of ilvl restrictions in PF if say for example: A player wants to join a raid and their gear is a bit low ilvl wise, but maybe they’ve stacked something like damage down reduction +X% for that specific fight. Later on they could swap that stat out for another particular fight, grind spiritbond (at a slower rate than it is now perhaps) that.. I don’t know “increased dmg +X% when within 2 yalms of 3 or more party members” for an encounter that’s very stack oriented. This would also make getting those one or two pieces per week a bit more interesting since players could then begin prepping enhancements for the remainder of the week instead of feeling like “okay, I got my piece. I’m capped on tomes. I’ll just log back in next week”

my biggest hate of the gearing system. If you dont get good rolls. It takes 4 weeks for one accessory this is an unacceptable amount of time for 1 item

Can you react to the healer section of the forums next?

Hello, MrHappy. Thanks for providing a solid constructive analysis. Though, I'm not as eloquent in breaking these down, I'd like the speak out for the possible silent majority. Many of us playing, I believe, do cap out the higest tomestone each week. For some, it's a last minute thing, while people like me are capping out on 3 characters. After a full day at work, spending first 2 hours of each day running experts, tending to retainers and marketboard, gathering sacks of nuts on main, daily beast tribes on main, there's is already a very limited time I can jump in and play with friends. I believe this is driven by fear of falling behind the trend. As you have noted, pf has ilevel higher for entry in most cases by the mid patch cycle from attempts filter out those who aren't commited to the encounter. PF hell is that from people leaving after 2-3 pulls on practice groups, after 1 pull on completition groups. It's extremely rare to make it half a lockout(30min) in PF. If the tomestone limit or gearing pace is increased, the dynamics of playtime vs farm time will greatly affect all of midcore players. Sure, we can just get 450 each week still even if cap is raised to 900, but that's not what midcore and semi-hardcore players do, right? So to the hardcore players, I have to ask... If you are that good and you want to play alt jobs, why do you need 620/630 gears? For ultimates at the very highest levels at the earliest time, are the absolute max gear for every slot a requirement? Can't you just split run savages? With master of the encounter(including the ultimates) and time to sink in(i.e. time for additional tomestones) in the encounters on a new job, is it truely necessary to gear faster or is the reasoning for wanting the best gear for the encounter falling under the same logic as the midcores and casuals wanting to cap out each week? I do believe that if the farm time increase for the midcore and likely even some casuals, it'll take away playtime that do not reward casuality tomestone and take another step toward having only elitists left complaining about lack of game popularity.

@aliasonarcotics

Жыл бұрын

this issue is completely sidestepped by cutting tome gear cost instead of increasing tome gear cap

@sampark5567

Жыл бұрын

@@aliasonarcotics Fantastic idea.

Some substat ideas: Mastery- Increase the amount of job meter gained by X. Efficacy- Your cooldowns increase your damage by an additional X.X% Strategy- Your cooldowns that affect all party members increase by X.X% Intensity- Your powerful hits (Crit, DH, Major Damage ability) do X% more damage. All easy to implement, all variable for different jobs, all simple to understand.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

"easy to implement" ? How would "increase job gauge" even work on SMN or dragoon? What is a "major damage ability" ? You do know that increasing a cooldown makes the ability WORSE right?

@encapturer

Жыл бұрын

I think by "cool down" they meant "personal buffs" and "raid buffs" and by "increase" they meant "make stronger". Probably would be materia only tho.

i completely agree with his takes, but ofc the casuals or even ppl who dont do alot of the content wont see that the game has some flaws. just cuz the game doesnt have big issues like wow doesnt mean it doesnt have issues in general. all these little nuances stack and becomes noticeable like the alt job gear grind. lowering the cost per gear bought is a good start, this couldve been a thing they couldve slowly implemented back in HW or SB just for future proofing. As we know we are going to get more jobs and gearing will become more and more of an issue in the future. if the game is going to last another decade thats almost 5/6 new jobs not including if we get more limited jobs. but alot of ppl would not have said anything and think theres no problem UNTIL we got to that point of gearing 29 jobs (if its still 2 per expansion). so luckily we have ppl who have the thals balls to say things like this and not worry about A-holes wholl troll them for their opinion. say what you like about sfia but he is right.

@ThatRedHusky

Жыл бұрын

They've made it clear that there will be MAYBE 2 more jobs total. If not maybe only 1.

@Mrhappy1227

Жыл бұрын

They have never done any such thing. They've only said they are running out of jobs to pull from in the franchise and will need more originals.

@Abundanceplayer

Жыл бұрын

@@ThatRedHusky ok? how does that change what i said? if its one job thats 10 years we get a expansion every 2 years so thats 5 expansions still why i said 5/6 if they eventually go down to 1. thats still about 26 jobs. thats alot of jobs to grind gear for if you like to play them all.

@Abundanceplayer

Жыл бұрын

@@Mrhappy1227 never done what? we are still getting jobs even if its one job per expansion in 10 yrs thats 5 jobs with the 19(20 for BLU) thats about 25 jobs and if they still do 2 per expansion thats still 29 jobs we have to grind gear for. so i dont understand what your comment is saying

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

@@ThatRedHusky source? New jobs are what sells expansions and if there is one thing SE loves, its the money

I really wish the tomestones would stack if you miss a week of gameplay, It's really hard to keep up when you have real life jobs, wife and a baby :/ its not always that you have to miss a week or two but it happens very often and it sucks to be thinking you are now 450 tomes behind with your main job, the rest of the jobs are out of the question. Wish Naoki Yoshida could extend a hand to the party finder players that doesn't have FC and mostly plays with random people because of real life time constraints that's probably a really big portion of the players. I used to enjoy raiding with friends back in ARR and HW but then I took an arrow to the knee.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

I mean, 15 minutes on 5 days a week is not exactly asking you to commit your whole life. Like, i get where youre coming from, i just dont feel like its fair to the game. Hitting cap is not a big time investment, just generally speaking

I'd like more sidegrades or alternatives to reach Ilvl cap. Maybe let us trade in augmented crafted gear or alliance raid coins to upgrade a piece of alliance gear to 630 or allow one more step of crafting to double augment crafter gear to 625+. Also lower the cost of tome gear or make the tome limit less pain.

Feeling under the weather but looking fly regardless

i feel they should try to bring back dungeons as bare minimum raid gear instead of catch up to normal content gear. no one uses dungeon gear besides for glamour at this point and the main reason for running the dungeon is the tomes for better gear. at least if its a placeholder (with it being 610, crafted being 615, tome and raid unchanged) people would have the minimum for other alt jobs

I want the ability to BIS 5 jobs every 8 months within tank, healer, physical ranged, melee dps, and caster dps.

I was so disappointed when criterion dungeons came out didn't have any gear as part of the reward. Also with the devs now hand picking stats on some items (savage chest/weapon) removes potential of gear choice.

Looking good Haps :)

I feel like the game has a lot of systems and issues that could be resolved if they leaned into the fact you can play all jobs on one character. Whether it's gearing, lock outs or job balance and homogenization, they really need to lean into it instead of treating every job as needing to do everything in the same way and making gearing literally lock you into one role(or job considering the issues with the materia system and jobs needing different stats).

I think one thing they could do is somehow give us some sort of "Meld Plates" that we can link to gearsets.

Thought I wasn't going to agree, but this seems like a very well thought out post.

What if the normal raid gear could be upgraded 10 item levels higher? Perhaps if you got extra gear tokens from the normal raids, you could upgrade them. That's just something quickly brainstormed of course.

One thing that I think is worth noting is that some of the points brought up in the post won't actually change the problems that he highlights. For example, in his first point when arguing that the rate of gear acquisition is too low he brings up ilvl requirements in party finder, as if speeding up gear acquisition would help with that problem when it would actually have the opposite effect. Players set those ilvl restrictions relative to how much gear they expect players to have at a given point into the tier. If gearing up is faster that wouldn't make it easier to meet the restrictions in pf, it would just cause those restrictions to be even higher. The substat issue is honestly an unsolvable problem. Substat choices benefit from preference diversity. When everyone wants the same thing there's no point in having choices. But this is in opposition to the ability to swap between jobs. It's either one problem or the other. The point about having more methods of acquiring savage level gear is really just a repeat of his first point: he wants faster gear acquisition.

How about we get a merchant where we can trade BiS pieces into other BiS pieces? For example I finish my Tank BiS but I decided to play a DPS/Healer for the next ultimate so I can trade my BiS gear from my Tank into DPS/Healer related BiS. 630 ilvl DRK Weapon -> 630 ilvl Sage Weapon. Same for every other Savage Raid Gear piece and Tomestone Gear. Only thing is that if you have for example a 630 ilvl Piece from the Savage Tier, for example Head, but the BiS piece for the role you wanna switch into uses the Tomestone Head. Then you can't trade, because it would be abused (buying Tome Body Piece and upgrade it -> trade for savage Body piece which means you don't have to kill the last boss). Another downside is, that you would be "BiS" for literally every job instantly, after buying the whole tomestone gear onece + received at least one chest for every gear piece from savage -> resulting in less and less player will play the Savage Raid overtime. Also PF might become weird, because people will join with BiS gear with a class that they probably dont know how to play; tho you could also argue that with BiS they can allow themself more mistakes and still be able to clear. Maybe you can make it work with some more restrictions to it to counterbalance the negatives. Just a thought that came to mind. Not the best solution but an option.

Yeah I also bought crafted gear after waiting a while because that stuff is expensive even before pentamelding and I can't join any party anyway because of ilvl filters. So even spending time and effort in an attempt to be nice and help people on the struggle bus is not worth it even for fun. Last tier I cleared on healer so I could do go into c41 and help drag people through, but this tier I moved away from healer because it's the kind of class you play because no one else wants to play it. It can be fun but it's not rewarding and I feel this way even after taking healer through an ultimate fight. But caster is also a bit underwhelming this tier so when I think about what I want to do for next tier, I honestly might just skip it. The encounters themselves are fun, learning is fun, but the core issues with both gearing and FFXIV's problems with UI and presenting raid information to the player are right now not fun enough for me to sink another 2-3 months in. And honestly MSQ and dungeons I am super bored with both. So it's either become a crafting god or go catch up on my other games backlog.

I would absolutely love if the criterion dungeons gave gear. It feels more "adventurey" to me then to just run at a boss for 5 hours to maybe get gear this week

Friendly reminder that next tier, you'll need tome legs and the raid chest for bis.

What if they made the Job gear they hand out at the near end of the MSQ scale? Like in EW it is what....560? What if it upgrades a bit every patch so that gear somewhat keeps up with progression. Have it still lag behind like 20-30 ilvls but make it be relevant for those alt jobs you only play once in a while so you won't be funneling gear into it. Right now I only use my alt jobs on roulettes because none of them are really geared to do savage (One of them could probably do Barb since it has full normal mode gear, albeit with a 570 wpn lol).

@inazumatan7050

Жыл бұрын

It already exists, you’re talking about HQ Crafted Gear. There’s a new one every new tier, it’s enough to clear Extremes, enough to get you started on progging the first tier of Savage and you get minor upgrades weekly through tomes. Yes it costs Gil but a couple million Gil is nothing to a decently active/knowledgeable Lv90 player.

As someone who doesn't raid I would love to have tomestone restrictions removed so I can gear on my time when I decide and not have to focus on it for 15 weeks 🙃

@armyvalor5496

Жыл бұрын

SE won't do it early in the expansion because they want you to be trapped into your Subscription...in otherwords they do it so you have to remain subbed and not just quickly gear, get board, then unsub till the next patch...so the cycle is there to bloat the numbers of subs for investor calls.

@vexatiousfae7090

Жыл бұрын

@@armyvalor5496 it's forcing me out of the game rather than keeping me in at this point

People wanting unreasonable gear limits to content that doesn’t demand it is a social issue, I don’t know how it can be fixed, but the gap between “just having fun” and “these classes and gearsets only” is bigger than it should be

@Shiirow

Жыл бұрын

I look at this as more of a people issue than a game system issue. do you really need to gear multiple jobs? he is arguing for Ultimates but really what percentage of playerbase actually do ultimates. I dont want them screwing with the gearing system to appease the top 1% of players. Other developers have done that and completely destroyed their games.

@24hr-Gaming

Жыл бұрын

@@Shiirow How would making gear more easily available cause negative effects to people who just do MSQ and afk in Limsa all day? Ultimates is just one example but even doing extremes or Criterion gear for alt classes is seriously a pain. It's all expensive or time gated. Is there any reason there can't be baseline gear lateish into the patch that takes a couple weeks to farm?

My suggestion is make tomestone role locked instead of character locked. Like I can spend my 825 tomes I've gathered so far and spend it on my gnb and can use those same tomes on my rpr and whm for example

As someone stuck in 6.0 because friends who are playing for first time freak out if I even voice the want to do current content the current system definitely has flaws, by the time they get caught up having just finished 4.0 I either have to weekly cap tomestones or spend Gil like a madman once they’re finally caught up because groups will have a high requirement for even old EX and savage. More ways to get not BIS but even decent gear is always welcome as a perpetually poor player

I think part of this is a symptom of tighter enrages this patch also. my group has a suboptimal comp and some lesser-skilled players newish to raiding, and enrages are absolutely agonizing. most of us are 620+ and yet we still struggle in 6 and 7, especially with deaths. I feel like the enrages should be tuned to only be tight for week1-2 raiders, enrage should not even be a concern for anyone with significant gear 8 weeks out. (we're not double melee)

@riri-lg4cv

Жыл бұрын

I rly feel the pain since my main is black mage but I adore sage and dancer, and won't even be able to play them in PF until 6.3 at this rate. barely cracking i610 on either

@xxomega702buzzalini8

Жыл бұрын

Well, the fact that p6s the dps check is 54k to 7s 58k means with a group like yours has to perform much better than normal without deaths is disheartening. I can bet even if your group plays the best they can you with no deaths and still 5% enrage p7s is a problem. The game is advertised as you can play any job and clear any content with any comp except at the high end of content, your skill at playing are a big factor from p7s onward. I am new to raiding and even at the end of last tier with 600 ilvl I was not able to break past p4s door boss.

Kind of in the same vein, having materia attached to job stones rather than gear would be nice. Better gear could give more materia capacity, and you can play with speed stats freely (BLM pls)

Variant dungeons should've had upgrade materials for crafted gear. Extreme drops accessory and gloves/feet/helm upgrade materials and Savage drops chest piece and pants materials. It takes 4 people instead of 8, people can still upgrade their gear at the extreme lvl, and it doesn't need to be 625ilvl if you don't want the next upgrade for crafted gear to be obsolete. What should the ilvl be? I dunno, I don't work on the balance team, but this would've been at least an attempt at solving this issue. As for making it daily or weekly, that's difficult. I say bi-weekly so people don't burn through everything day 1 like with Variants. And besides, you are essentially upgrading 2 pieces of gear if you do both.

Hello. I can see the opinion about spell/skill speed. If I may, I find it 'bit useful' in the past, but I stopped using it. Thanks to SE having leaned towards 2-minutes, while it is sometimes sweatbreaking, it is now doable without skill/spellspeed to be in line of burst. Namely, I play on 277ms on some dc with 25 fps (and now I have 290ms max at 60 fps because I bought a pc) but ms means unlike fps, I struggle the same. People could argue 'why do you not play close to home' it is because my home is the region but I do not live there and I am comfortable around the culture. That said ........ and please help me if my calculations are wrong as I am not good at math; but I used to use much spell/skill speeds to match burst windows because the server ticks are 1.5 delayed, meaning, when a cast bar go out, people often can time the cast bar perfectly before stepping out (greeding!) in my case, I have to wait for the castbar to be at 40% instead of 20% before I am safely able to step out. Since O11S I learned the timer although sometimes it can be a miss or hit. So I started to use skill/spell speed to match up against the latency and it was like magic to me. It felt good, and it felt like at least that aspect was right. However, this was usually done when I was still new to FF14 and did not know the significance of crit/direct....... of course now I do. But in my case; I am casual player who do not even look to rotations because I become confused and start to not feel comfortable but insecure playing any jobs. So I play how I feel 'right', and so I one day looked at rotations and it looked like I did it right way (RPR) however, I no longer have skill speed as I did in Shadowbringers, I use crit/direct.......yet, it still offers struggle to be perfect in line. Even if I do the right way, with the normal skill speed, it is always as if others has skill/spell speed and I am behind. (in a feeling) I hope I could explain it well. I wonder sometimes if I should go back to skill speed.

I would love to see other methods of gearing just from the side of wanting to freaking dye glams! I don't even need it to be BiS just let me upgrade to dyable or something. On the side of tomes, I'm so sick of capping tuesday with no concious effort and still not being able to buy have the stuff.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

I mean, tomestone gear becomes dyable upon augmenting it, normal raid gear and savage gear in terms of glam are the same, just savage being dyable. I dont know if thats what you mean to ask but it definitely sounds like it and if so you already have the system

@ViviCaligo

Жыл бұрын

@@ensamvarg8504 Yes but some people just aren't into savage raiding hence why I'd like to see alternate methods even if it's just an option to make base raid gear dyable.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

@@ViviCaligo you are free to go in there once its outgeared. You can easily skip half the fight in a first tier once the third tier hits, for example. Or at a later point in time with unsyncing things. Some things in the game are generally meant as a challenge with some cool rewards, are you gonna ask for a way to obtain ultimate weapons without doing ultimate next Edit because i probably come off as rude I dont want to say that your point isnt valid, but there is enough glam outside of savage and the savage glam can still be obtained easily, just not right away. Thats all

@ViviCaligo

Жыл бұрын

@@ensamvarg8504 I appreciate the edit because the ultimate weapons comment was kind of a pointless dig, I know I can go in later, I have done so for mounts/glams I simply want more dyable gear, hell make base raid/tome gear dyable and I'm fine. I still however also think there should be alternative methods, they can be slower than savage (though I do think savage is too slow in itself) so even then raiders can increase their BiS farming or spread across jobs they enjoy.

One of the things I think get overlooked is how the existing gearing process is anti-communal as well. Last tier, I ran exclusively through PF, and many weeks I did not roll well enough for drops. Eventually, my ilvl restricted me from certain groups on fights I had cleared many times. This tier, I joined a midcore static where we all maxed out our tomes weekly, cleared together, re-cleared together, and handed out loot intentionally. I also play FF14 with many others who are in other groups and/or are more casual raiders. Guess what we can't do? Help each other fill or clear current savage raids. The game actively discourages those who have cleared playing with those who haven't. It also discourages joining random PF groups to just practice a fight, as most groups want 2 chest drops. I understand the reasoning behind limiting the loot this way, but it results staying in one's static bubble and not helping each other out until later in the tier.

Crafted is for raiders : it should be upgradable, for example with raid drops. Raid gear : is ok-ish as it is. May be reworked to favour alts or reclears in the same week. Memo gear: why the heck are we using it that much. That we use a bit is okay. But it is more casual gear that is upgraded with raid mats. Just make it easier to get, and make it upgradable with more tomes or a mat that drops for EACH kill or smth. That way, when you progress, you can upgrade what you want (a memo chest for example).

Surely they will at least consider this feedback

The major issue with savage gear to me is that it's absolutely worthless the second the next raid drops. You get crafted and normal raid gear that is higher ilevel. Feels really shitty to point in effort for full bis if it's only worthwhile for the current tier.

@rijsmiddel8765

Жыл бұрын

What’s the alternative? If they change the min ilvl of the next tier to allow for current savage gear to be bis for prog, crafted gear becomes almost obsolete. The majority of players will have 630 from the alliance raid token by the time the next tier comes out. I suppose at best they could just make crafted gear the same level as the last tier’s savage, but then you still have the problem that most people will not need it. By making savage gear more relevant for a few weeks you invalidate the crafted sets. I’m sure in SE’s mind that people want bis to feel accomplished or whatever, but in reality it stays relevant for the entire tier because of parsing. Of course it becomes irrelevant next tier, but we’re talking several months here.

@MrMikeyRage

Жыл бұрын

@@rijsmiddel8765 doesn't necessarily need to be bis but having meaningful choice would help? Crafted could be 5 ilvl lower and in some case you would still choose it over savage due to pentamelds or better itemization. Gear is severely uninteresting in nearly every way. Have savage give a third substat? A third materia slot? There's things they can do to make it more fun.

@OhNoTheFace

Жыл бұрын

@@rijsmiddel8765 There is a reason adding more then stats from gear is usually a good idea

IMO (as a casual player who loves gearing up all jobs), raid gear and tomestone gear acquisition should be replaced with "licenses" (to keep an FF term, but could be anything). For example, you get enough tokens/tomestones for a chestpiece. You go to the merchant and instead of buying a "Radiant Chestpiece of Aiming", you buy a "Radiant Chestpiece License." Then that vendor (or another) offers all the chestpieces (Fending, Casting, Aiming, Healing, Scouting, Maiming, Striking) to purchase for non-capped tomestones. That way it keeps the current delay in getting fully geared up? But you're not penalized for trying to gear up multiple roles, you just need to run non-capped tomestones and buy the other role equipment.

@whitestar20101

Жыл бұрын

I like this idea it still caps your progress by only having a gear piece but allows you to work towards getting the chest for another job once you have got one on your main. I love playing every job for the variety but end up with the best geared one just for efficiency and speed. Plus having more jobs geared would make party finders easier to fill since people would be more willing to play a different role/class

In regards to Tenacity, the main problem with it is only the fact that the damage mitigation portion is weighted WAY too high versus the damage portion of the substat, as well as too high against the bonuses *other* substats give. When you compare the defensive bonuses Tenacity gives per point compared to the damage that, say, Direct Hit, gives, the bonuses are simply too low to make it competitive - you get more total bonus point-for-point for pretty much any other substat compared to Tenacity. This would be fine if damage was a big issue in FF14, but it really isn't. There isn't a single part of the game that *requires* a tank to have a certain amount of Tenacity to survive, which means that the mitigation portion of the substat is even *more* inefficient compared to everything else. While designing more casual content to require the stat would not work very well, having the highest levels of content *need* a tank to have some level of Tenacity (assuming the bonuses were also adjusted to make them more competitive) would be a great change, IMO. In regards to other substats: Skill Speed and Spell Speed should be combined. There is no reason for them to be separate, and the few jobs that utilize both stats get shafted by them being separate. Direct Hit should be removed. There is zero point to this stat, and it is one of the primary reasons substats are boring. Damage is king, so having two substats that directly affect ONLY damage means those will be the primary focus 99% of the time. Speed substats, while they do have a direct affect on damage, also affect other parts of the game: pace of combat, MP usage, etc. Piety should have more of an impact on healers. Currently, there is almost no use for piety due to other MP management options that healers have. Requiring healers to maintain at least some piety in order to stay relatively MP-neutral would go a long way towards allowing for "creativity" in their stat builds, as it would mean deciding on a good balance between damage and MP management. Determination is pretty good, but if Direct Hit was removed, should probably be lowered in the bonuses it gives *slightly*. It should be the stat that a casual player can use as a trade-off for making a build more comfy, compared to being ultra efficient. It shouldn't be as bad as Tenacity currently is, but it should definitely be at the level where a player would be making a decision to sacrificing other stats to having an easier time in a general sense.

This post, at its foundation, just screams to me, "Lets optimize the fun outta the game." Not to say the poster has some points and points we have seen brought up before, but seeing as it comes from a person who is world first, complete IS insanely fast, completes content the moment is released, I am not inclined to take his post seriously since he is trying to optimize stuff more, so he can consume content even faster. But more so than anything and as some have brought up, doing all these things, just creates more problems whether foreseeable or unforeseeable. There are no easy solutions to the various points the poster brought up. It is a system that has been going on for years and while it is stale and could be better, it is just another step towards changing and optimizing, and when you give an inch, people will then ask for a mile. If you cut tomestones needed by half, people will then want it cut into 1/4 while at the same time, doubling the acquisition.

@ich3730

Жыл бұрын

wtf are you talking about xD Get some reading comprehension, take the meds and *then* post on YT :D

I definitely agree on most things, specially sub stats and I'd expand it on main stats too. I know comparing FF to other MMOs is difficult, but in the one case I'll do it anyways. - Weekly cap: we all know the cap is dumb and we all know end game raiders ended just having alts. We not only ended spending twice or more time farming weekly tomes with alts but also getting another character to end game and lvling up a class we probably already maxed on our main. So much for a game that lets you play all classes in one character. - In FF I mainly play Tanks. Years playing and I dislike how tanks don't have to consider tank stats. In other games you had your base gear, but without adjustments to substats you would still get destroyed by an end game boss unless you had a top tier healer or you were really skilled tank. In FF you have the base gear for the tier, your CDs, and that's all you need. There is no relevant stat, buff or effect linked to reward tanking more or better so tanks just focus on damage. There's a whole topic about min-maxers and griefing here, but I don't think deleting a core part of a job is the solution. While I'm on this I'll say healers have a similar problem: there is no relevant gain linked to healing aside from keeping the group alive, so healers don't want to heal and would rather focus on damage and let's be honest, greedy healers not wanting to heal is already a griefing problem. - Skill/Spell speed: The comparison to accuracy is spot on. Speed was a huge stat for DPS in most games I've played, it heavily affected their damage and sometimes they'd hit twice or thrice as fast while still hitting hard. In FF you want speed to line up your buff window, and every other aspect is undesired and feels unrewarding. FF has one of the most restrictive combat systems I've seen due to how numbed down it is. I love the game but the combat is straight up bad.

@ensamvarg8504

Жыл бұрын

For the tank problem, i think getting back to the old system, while being a lot to ask, would probably lighten the issue. Similarly, the main stat materia being gone is kinda what made tanking not be about skill as a tank and more so just pressing buttons. You could go for more damage but sacrifice some survivability for it. Now you simply go for more damage. The "healers dont want to heal" mentality is probably the biggest reason for the current healer shortage. This savage tier actually requires healers to heal, and it appears most people do not want that. To be fair, there is a lot of pressure put onto the healers on top of just them actually having to heal for a change. Any mechanical failure, especially in p5, is simply blamed on the healer. The dps didnt get to their puddle, because the assigned healer with the big number over their head wasnt guiding the way. How dare they ask the dps to think Just a lil something i wanted to add to your comment

Ive always believed that it would be best if gear wasnt locked to your weekly clear on a character but weekly clear on a role. That way you can clear the tier on dps, healer, and tank and receive 3 chests. Even if they limit the chests so that its one per week still, it would be great if you could get one book drop per week per role so that we can get 3 books per week per circle (or 5 if you want to split tank/healer/melee/caster/ranged but i dont think thats necesarry). 99% of people doing savage have multiple classes at 90 already so I have never understood why they wouldnt do this.

@jpem4664

Жыл бұрын

Because they don't want people to feel "forced" to do each fight 3 times a week to gear their main as fast as possible. If they were to open that up I would bet they'd lock books to the role somehow which would still be better. They can also just drop book costs a lot without making us play way more to reach the same point.

@hb-mek

Жыл бұрын

@@jpem4664 but it literally doesnt matter if people gear their main as fast as possible, if u gear your main in 3 weeks that means ur tank and healer are still going to be min ilvl on your reclears. You could lock books/chests to that role but it doesnt matter either way

Funniest part of the entire forum post is the first reply :D

The lack of creativity in the gearing process is what causes me to dip out of 14 every once in a while. I'm not even looking for items to do more damage, just something unique. Like, maybe provide a shield when my health gets super low or even transform into Morlboro. Just something cool making it worth getting, because right now getting gear just feels stale to me. I still love the game and have for years just want gear to be less boring, even if things become a little less balanced. Atleast, it will be less sterilized and boring.

I would love to see different pieces of savage raid available for the currencies they give out for overworld and PvP content. If they just raised the currency cap, and require fairly significant grinds, it would feel great. For example; sacks of nuts from hunts for accessories, gemstones from fates for chest piece, legs from crystals earned in PvP, etc.

For gearing we accept a mix of tome gear gear and raid gear at that point, which is an issue. Casuals run memo gear, so they constantly play at a wrong gcd etc. I get that they do that to avoid differences. But memo set should work alone, and raid gear be an upgrade. Plus what is so dumb about memos is that you gear your main, might buy a few extra things to have temporary dmg increase, but you are setting yourself late to gear your other jobs. Plus it feels dumb to want to buy the chest, that nobody uses, just to have it for glam.

Honestly I think the Substats just need a complete overhaul. I'd personally recomend changing the substats to be Role Based and Seperated from each other. I also dont see the point in either Skill Speed or Spell Speed existing as stats. The GCDs and oGCDs would be much easier to ballance without them.

this is a very good conversation to be had, also as returning players does make participating in the current tier more annoying than anything else. to a point that is not even worth participating; I have very little complaints about the gearing system tbh. Definitely there is room for improvement maybe something as simple as raising the tome cap would be ideal. Some job actually can get the Bis from the raid faster than the tome side of things.

I feel like they should make materia stats boost the potency of different abilities. This will allow jobs variation

@toychristopher

Жыл бұрын

You want to add talents/set bonuses from wow to materia? That's a pretty crazy idea imo.

@ff14andmore61

Жыл бұрын

That would legit break the only balanced part of the game lmfao

@JDTalo

Жыл бұрын

You mean like WoW trinkets? Now the whole gearing and character building revolves around a single item and if you don't have that item you are considered unwanted. No thanks.

@RaddyC

Жыл бұрын

No. I do think a decent idea would be making stats actually interesting. I hate how dull 14’s stats are and I’d love to be able to have a use for different materia builds on the same job

@xxephon1565

Жыл бұрын

the issue with that is, people will literally just create a meta and only follow that meta. you want to join a static? oh first let me check, what's your gear ? is it BiS? do you have the correct materia for boosting your abilities? what's your parse on FFlogs? giving "variety" of builds means the devs spend time creating content... just for end game raiders to find a meta and stick to that and nothing else. ironically, you would want different builds for casual players, because they're going to just aim to have fun trying stuff. but end game raiding with hardcore players? 90% of them are just going to follow the strict meta. it's a waste of time for devs to make different builds, when people are 1. only going to use the meta, wasting their time on the other builds 2. toxicity will increase bc of "you arent using the meta build!!" i do agree gearing needs to change. but creating variation by making "different builds" for jobs is not the best way. instead, it'd be better to just make jobs more unique and more variation between the actual different jobs themselves, not variation within a job.

Make all raid gear market tradeable. Nobody is obliged to sell anything but at least we can have some actual profession diversity in the game. As a casual content / crafter player I have plenty of gil but nothing worthy to spend it on. Meanwhile there are raiders so poor they crying about pot and food prices. The market in this game is just a bad joke. If people like raiding, let them sell their loot for some profit. If people like crafting, let them buy some usefull gear with the hoarded gil. Supply and demand will eventually settle on what's agreeable for both parties. I don't understand the reasoning behind keeping top gear market prohibited while it could solve some of those gearing issues mentioned.

@TheSpicyLeg

Жыл бұрын

It’s simple: the hardcore don’t want “undeserving” people to get “their” gear.

Perhaps the substats in XIV could be made more interesting without too much rework. - Let Direct Hit now cause a secondary damage damage effect to the ability used that caused it - visible by the splash number and in the combat log - so players can actually _see_ its effect. - Change Tenacity into a self-shield on the tank that has an x% chance to occur and that absorbs y% damage. Then you can have tank abilities interact with it to cause the % to proc to become guaranteed. Just to name some ideas. It'd also be nice if gear became the means again, rather than the goal. This is a player mindset 'issue', imo.

I agree with a lot of this post and some things happy suggests. Gearing in this game is terribly antiquated, especially for a game that touts 'you can do everything on one character'. The gearing system isn't really set up for that when we talk about current tome and raid gear. Tome gear costs too much for the weekly cap. Doubling the cap wouldn't really help and not from a playing twice as much point either. People would cap every week regardless. I like the idea of halfing the cost but I also think it's way past time for the cap to go. Raid loot is broken too. The idea of one item a week I can understand but one clear a week is also terrible. You clear p5s and your done for the week. You can't help anyone clear with out penalizing them for taking you. The number of drops from the savage should never be reduced for any reason. This is just tip of the iceberge. honestly feel that the way you gear up is too much set in stone for the world first race and some draconian thought this is the best way to make that fun. Something needs to change and it makes no sense at all to keep it the way it is now with tome and raid drops

As primarily a wow player, one of the issue I had when I attempted to swap to FFXIV was that the actual stats on gear were very boring and static and that it made little difference when I got a nice upgrade. Which genuinely made the gearing process feel less rewarding.

@lkain619

Жыл бұрын

That’s because the game is more skill based and not numbers based like wow. No one piece of gear should add 30% more damage like some trinkets in wow

@neobahumuth6

Жыл бұрын

stats are nothing more than +x% dmg disguised as something else in everygame, hell on wow ppl follows sims that essentially translates the stats on a given item into raw dmg as such I don't think stats being boring is a real argument

@Zoggwogg

Жыл бұрын

@@neobahumuth6 I mean the purpose of gear is to make you deal more damage, but that doesn't mean that stats shouldn't change the way it feels to play your class. Playing a melee specs in wow feels a lot different at 10% haste vs 30%.

@Zoggwogg

Жыл бұрын

@@lkain619 I think this is a pretty bad misinterpretation of wow's gameplay, which is also very skill based. And I don't think it's wrong to say "I wish my gear would reflect changes in my character more".

@scottishboy112

Жыл бұрын

Yea, the only stats that really change how something feels is Skill Speed and Spell Speed. Too much and some jobs hate it, too little and some jobs don’t feel good. Besides that, yea it’s just ‘Gear upgrade to help with a small bit of DPS’

There are other factors we have to keep in mind. Such as the fact that this is an MMORPG and in general they are designed to take a long time to accomplish things. So anything that might save time (such as gearing up alternate classes) is something they are as a company hesitant to do.

@brooksp1191

Жыл бұрын

I believe they are concerned about PF/Expert drop off if gearing is done to quickly. I wouldn't say it is done to push people to keep subbing simply to farm out raid gear, they have never really pushed that style.

Id very much like to be able to swap gear with some npc or something, because I ended up having to switch jobs at least twice this tier, because rng is a bitch and other roster factors. Now my actual main job is stuck forever at 615, the one I had to swap to is bis but I had to rush to learn it, we also fell behind like 2 weeks. I am...tired.... Tenacity is a waste of time, they might as well make it scale like det and just add like a 300pt absorb shield randomly every auto attack or something. Ideally get rid of it. As for extra gearsets, they could add an extra augmentation to previous sets, for example, say a token from criteirion that would raise the ilvl of the radiant or even cryptlurker set to 630 and renaming it to augmented+ or something

This game needs job-specific materia. For an example, WAR can have a materia that gives Shake It Off extra shield but removes the healing effect and vice versa. I love this game but the gearing system is so boring…

@pklifeupa7064

Жыл бұрын

They need subjobs.

My thing is I would say Set the old Tombs 2000 but Set the New one at 600, 800 or even a 1000 Have of the max of Tombs this 450 Lock is very bad since like it say you can be all Jobs. Don't get me started on the buy on the broker instead of because like it or not they Focus way to heavy on The high end Raiders instead of Casual player even 2 and a Half months out from the release of 6.2 Some players still can't afford Gear.