I know some people like to falsely claim that two rounds of something that add up to the same energy as one different round make them both "the same" like two rounds of 9mm and one round of .44 Magnum having the energy. But for fun, If I happened to take this 9mm pistol and the one spare magazine that comes with it and carry that setup with 35 rounds, those 35 rounds times 566 ft lbs energy makes a total energy of 19,810 ft lbs energy. This is a ton of "firepower". Statistically speaking all you need is probably 3 rounds of .380 ACP (less than 500 ft lbs total energy) for your average defensive situation. So no real reason for this comment other than to have fun with the numbers. Now I will say this; when I have studied "one shot stop" statistics, there seem to be three things that put a cartridge into the 90 percentile range for stopping power. One is energy, typically over 400 ft lbs of any caliber has high stopping power; Two is velocity, typically over 1,200 FPS of any handgun caliber(not rimfire from a rifle) has high stopping power; Three is diameter, typically anything over .45 caliber has high stopping power. Some cartridges combine two or three of those statistics, but with at least one of those requirements being checked off you probably have a decent caliber/cartridge of choice.

@dansparrow1506

3 жыл бұрын

I don't care what caliber or gun you use. There is no replacement for placement.

@mikecacciatore543

3 жыл бұрын

@@dansparrow1506 practice training under different levels of stress will help with that shot placement

@robertmosher7418

3 жыл бұрын

@@dansparrow1506 you know, I have been studying the whole myth of power/stopping power and the conclusion I have come up with is that you can carry a varied range of calibers and it all comes back to the comfort level of the shooter to the particular pistol/revolver. The more comfort the more a person is likely to enjoy shooting and will shoot more. More range time equals more accurate shot placement into the vital areas of the attacker which equals higher chances of shooter's survival. Which is the point. We all know the faster, bigger bullet will have more ft lbs of energy. We all know that that means higher probability of first shot stop. However, if that means carrying a weapon that isn't comfortable to carry or shoot, the chances of hitting a vital area or even possibly missing a moving attacker diminish. Moral of the story is to buy and carry any caliber larger than a .380 that you like to shoot and enjoy range time and don't worry about the ballistics of the whole thing. Unless you are a bullet nerd like me.

@cwatson42785

3 жыл бұрын

@@robertmosher7418 Well said Robert! When I first started in the hobby I was all about going with the bigger round (.45) for "stopping power" but after buying a 9mm I found it was easier to shoot and better/faster follow up shots for me personally. I prefer 9mm cause I just think with modern day defensive jhp rounds and higher capacity they are more then capable of taking someone down. Now if jhps didn't exist and only fmj were around I might opt for a higher caliber. I just think 9mm is the most balanced round between capacity, velocity and expansion and easier to shoot that you can't go wrong. The key is just having something to protect yourself and family...Period.

@flatstheflounder9874

3 жыл бұрын

Seismic 185gr 9mm load let's see that

Sam is literally out of breath after describing all the testing he will do. Can we just appreciate the effort and expense to provide content that KZread wants to cancel?

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

The rheumatoid arthritis, kids and life don't help lol

@red9man2130

3 жыл бұрын

absolutely! Sam is to be applauded for what He does for us!

@leaonardland9001

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Do u hve arthritic thumbs, like no cartilege left? I do and i'm pretty sure it came from shooting hard kicking powerful but light guns one handed.

@perseusrex614

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I'm with you, same boat for me, I can relate. My work is hard and I've been doing it over 24 years, I have 7 surgeries from it. Thanks for your work, its top class.

@watarusakurai7030

2 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam It may be obvious, but is it safer to shoot the 9mm Luger + P + from a revolver that uses a .357 magnum instead of from a pistol?

The 9Mm+P+ appeared to be pushing the bullet beyond it's design limits.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

yes. A little bit

@jeffhudson2346

3 жыл бұрын

Wondering if those are cup and core or bonded bullets?

@jeffhudson2346

3 жыл бұрын

@@jorgesolis9468 anything but what they're using currently.

@jeffhudson2346

3 жыл бұрын

@@jorgesolis9468 underwood extreme defender would work with that loading as well.

@leaonardland9001

3 жыл бұрын

They issued us 9mm +P+ on my job.

I seem to recall several state and city agencies using the 9mm 115 +P+ with excellent street results.

I did not expect the 9mm +P+ to have as that much energy. That's approaching .357 Sig territory.

@jimreed6875

3 жыл бұрын

@Ethan Mac Good point.

@jasonvoorhees2701

3 жыл бұрын

.40 is nowhere near the class of .357.... especially in penetration

@jasonvoorhees2701

3 жыл бұрын

Ballistics is my strong suit .... I hear everything you're saying... a 150 grain .40 would be a hot round but most likely would be a shallow penetrator... yes a revolver casing vs semi auto...clearly .357 is longer..which further supports my theory that .40 is considerably out classed .. .357 mag was made to penetrate...and deliver alot of energy which it does well ... but having 7 shots in my 686 and two 6 round speed strips in my front pocket.. I dont feel any disadvantages honestly...

@boedude8496

3 жыл бұрын

@Ethan Mac i shoot mostly 150-155gr in my cz75. they are lower recoil in lighter loads than 180gr but are really movin (1300+) when you approach max spec. i have yet to make me some gel but i've seen some tests with some loads that are pretty close. good depth and expansion

@ryanranard5187

3 жыл бұрын

@Jason Voorhees CH CH CH AH AH AH lol

Wow, that is one HOT 38 spl load. Just goes to show the 38 spl is still a very viable self defense cartridge all these decades later.

I have watched every video release for years, I am happy to see the gel block in the last two videos. Very informative!

That 9mm load is very impressive. I've never gotten 9x19 to go that fast. The 38 is no slouch either. Both seem to have the energy to drop a pest.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I been afraid of this round for a long time. In reality, it's nothing. I think the TAC-XP .44 I tested at over 1,000 ft lbs in my 37 oz model 69 either cured, or ruined me for other rounds.

@Fudmottin

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I think it's been well demonstrated that 200 ft-lbs is sufficient. Of course more is more. Helps make up for slightly less than optimum shot placement.

@Fudmottin

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nostradamus_Order33 I've tried. I've gone as light as 90gr .356" bullets for 380 ACP over a stuffed case of Power Pistol. Best I got was just kissing 1400 fps. The bullets exploded on impact. No penetration at all!

@JoseSantos-bm5zp

3 жыл бұрын

2.0 is faster than a glock in general a lil American secret

@gregengbert

3 жыл бұрын

Try some black hills ammo 9mm 124gr. +p... I got 1400 fps average from a 5 shot group from a cz scorpion. That's about a consistent 530 ft lbs of energy. Slightly longer barrel but it's also a slightly heavier bullet.

Good comparison, thanks for taking the time to put it all together.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching.

I love that you’re using the gel in addition to your normal tests. Makes it way more interesting. Now we need a short barrel test with that 9mm Buffalo bore ammo

Fantastic set of tests! Thanks for doing this, Sam!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, tanks for watching!

Truly appreciate your editing and presentation style with the Picture in Picture. Well done.

Glad I found this channel. Great data and no bullshit. Love it.

A fine job you are providing a good format. Thank you

Agree with Tyler, I shoot n collect more of 38. And you do thorough work , n testing.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching

Good work 'Maestro' - thanks for sharing with us.

IMPRESSIVE! Both the 38 and 9mm loads shown have several applications. Love the new videos with both the gel and the Juggernaught box. Great video!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great video! Really like seeing the gel block wound cavity and penetration!

Better and better. Keep doing those awesome vids!

This was the best video I have see yet for a good example setting for the 9mm comparing it to another good gun. Thanks was very helpful.

Glad to see both the gel and jugs. Outstanding video!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Best ballistic comparisons on KZread, and without trying to put down one caliber over another.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

You did it Sam! That's the comparison I've been waiting for. Awesome review today! Great choice of ammo because that's what I primarily shoot but, that side by side with Jug Or Not & Gel was SWEET! Great work on the gong today as well. Your the Man, Sam!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@faaportela

Ай бұрын

👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍

Sam I watch tons of videos. Yours are at the very top. The way u explain and test are the best

Awesome!! I am a fan of both rounds. They truly both have their place.

That is the coolest .355/9mm cartridge I've ever seen! (: I am definitely a fan of .38 special, but I can't ignore that auto cartridge's performance. Another fantastic video, Sam. Thanks! 😎🤙🏻

Thank you for this info Sam......very good job !!!!

Thx, besides the 9mm+P+ vs 38spc+P comparison which was interesting,,, I have to tell you, your outdoor shooting lab is one of the best I seen, very well thought out to capture the projectiles and the best camera angles. Job Well Done budd

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

That was a damn good video. Love the 9mm para and the .38spl. Thanks for your hard work.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Fantastic work! Those are both some wicked rounds.

I clicked onto Buffalo Bore’s website after you shot the .38 special into the gel! Thanks for Sharing! 👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

I'm sure they appreciate that lol

Hey Sam that was a very educational video and fun to watch. You make learning so fun. Seriously loved it. I vote jug or not is more educational

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

As always, great video and comparison!

Wow, those are both booking it! Awesome video, Sam!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Impressive ballastics from both round. I particularly like the .38+P Thanks for the video!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Excellent video buddy good work.

Very good information! Thanks for the video.

Thanks for the video. Caught this box of ammo last minute, it looked really vintage to me (thought it was just a box of 12gauge) and then I proceeded to examine more closely at it, it was 9mm!

I was with you up until the pest control observation at the end for the 9mm....I’m a revolver fan at heart also... Love your vids... always well done...

I appreciate the work and info, will try to find some of this ammo. Thanks!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Great video, thank you for the hard work.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

That 9mm is amazing! I’ve been waiting on this test. With 17 rounds of this in the magazine, what other duty caliber round does one really need? Underwood use to do these hot rounds with the gold dot bullet. Now THAT would be an excellent police load!

In the sixties, I would occasionally come across boxed WW2 surplus U.S. military 9mm ammo, marked "9mm for machine guns only". I fired it through a Colt 9mm Commander with a four inch bbl. While I experienced no operating problems, recoil was quite stout, and there was a pronounced mussel flash. I believe that this was a bit hotter than +P+.

This 9mm packs a punch. 38 special is impressive too. That's a good demo testing with excellent pip view of get. Good presentation 😎👍

You blew the lungs right out of that gelatin block

I know it is more work for you, but showing the results in gel with the ballistic box is very interesting and informative. Thanks for the video.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Enjoyable demonstration of the jug or not box and gel together

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Thanks Sam. Good to see some high performance 9mm & 38 special without overpenetration.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

That was FUN!! Nice job!!!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Wow,that Manlys up both of those,that nine is just smokin.

Great video! Keep em coming.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Impressive rounds indeed. Glad the option is there if you need it. Very nice shooting and testing results are great. Keep up the great work Sam. 🎩☯️♠️

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I will try to!

@ratagris21

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I know you do.

Not disappointed in either. Pretty impressive velocity & energy.

great test Sam, Federal also makes a 15 gr, plus P + load. I think Tenn made a vid of it. The fact is, both rounds you've tested will suffice for a defensive load.

That is the same velocity as a .38 Super gets from a 5" barrel...very impressive... And tahanks for doing tests in both mediums...

Nice video again!!! 👍

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Where do we go to watch all the great firearms and ammunition videos after KZread stops them? I really enjoy videos like this.

@leaonardland9001

3 жыл бұрын

I see that a lot of people have moved to odysee.com

I carry that BB load in my SP101. Never felt a reason to use .357 Magnum. But again, that 9mm round is impressive. Great job on the video.

Great to see the new gong. You needed a new distance target

great info! thank you Sam!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Excellent video, as always. At my old dept our issue 9mm round was the BPLE 115 (later 124) grain +P+ as over-penetration was of great concern in an overpopulated beach town and again, beach town, so heavy clothing really wasn't an issue most of the time. FWIW, they now issue the Federal 124 gr HST (my new favorite non +P load). But, I still load up most of my 9s with the +P+ ammo as that's what I shot through them the most and I know where it hits and have the best idea of what it'll do. My Glock 26 and BHP especially. My Walther P99, though, well when I got it, my old dept gifted me a heaping helping of the HST and it shoots them very well so that's whats in it. The 9BPLE out of my baby Glock (just under 3.5" bbl) clocked from just over 1200fps to about 1250fps and from the 10.5" bbl of a Colt 635 it clocked 1475fps, so at a guess I'd say Buffalo Bore's is even hotter. Might not be the ideal coast-to-coast load for LEO work but for densely packed cities, coastal area with thin clothing, and civilians I'd say it's a darn fine round. As for that .38 special load ... WOW!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

I am getting sort of partial to Gold Dot and Winchester Ranger lately. Sometimes ammo choices are just how they make you feel, and for me there's something about how a medium weight bonded bullet does in most of my testing. I think overall a true jacketed bullet can get higher potential energy over a plated style bonding, I don't know why but I have experimented with same powder charges between Gold Dot and XTP and the XTP always moves considerably faster. It's only speculation, but I think maybe the plated style bonded bullet deforms in the bore a tad and absorbs the energy, as where maybe a true jacket bullet does not and essentially defects all that energy into the bullet base more.

@CeltKnight

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam - That's an interesting theory I have not heard anywhere else. Definitely worth researching. Thanks for the info! :)

Buffalo Bore makes some wicked hot stuff. I have some 9x18 MAK from Buffalo....you don't want to have a long range session with them. It's cool that you added the clear gel just as a comparison. Next to my CORBON, Buffalo Bore is my preferred 38 Special +P carry load in my 605. Thanks for the presentation.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Good video, thorough

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Awesome. Vid. I’d like ya to do all the Buff Bore 9mm in one vid.

Seeing this 9x19 load exceed 1500 fps blew my mind. I'm not aware of any .38 Super matching this velocity. Others have written of the .357 Sig; however this 9 really extends the versatility of the Parabellum after a century plus of development.

@andog6092

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, impressive but 357 sig is impressive in its own right. At least on paper 357 sig puts out 10mm power, in fps and force. Ironically the only downside is the price of 357 sig

9mm fan boys :finally a load that can "rival " .357 magnum 357 sig : Hold my beer

@leaonardland9001

3 жыл бұрын

.357 SIG is the best Glock. It's the only Glock that doesn't misfire when u "limp wrist" (a bad name for when u can't get a good grip) it.

Any chance with these tests you could include a single shot into the gel with the short barrels for comparison? Enjoying your new gel blocks. It’ll be more eco friendly since we won’t be destroying baloney and water jugs :D

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Oh i'm still destroying jugs lol. But I probably will run the .38 through my snubby .357. Not sure i'd shoot the 9mm in any other gun I have.

I like the clear ballistic gels, but there is something much more satisfying seeing what the bullets do to the meat pack and water jugs. I also like seeing you shoot up the melons, as they also show a big difference between the hollow point and full metal jackets.

Awesome Sam. Thanks for the comparison with the gel block in the same video as the jug or not. What is that 9mm bullet. Is it the 115xtp?? Pretty impressive. That 38+p is smoking too. Seems like 1125fps is the sweet spot on that 125 xtp for reliable expansion. Your videos/testing and Lucky gunners gel test is what led me to get to 1130fps with my snub 605. 8.0 of W231 in a 357 case gets it there. I'd have to go look at my notes to see what the 4inch barrel did with the same load. Got to work up the titegroup load still with that 125xtp but I'll get there eventually. As always thanks for the content

Wham bam thank you mam....good hard hitting rounds for sure...be sure to measure the ambient temp when using the clear gel or the gel temp itself.. it will change penetration data

Good job! Yes Underwood makes a similar round. Choice Ammunition's 148 grain Hard Cast Lead Flat Nose Truncated Bullets claims to achieve 515 Ft Pounds of Energy. If possible please compare this Choice Ammunition 148 + P.

BB and Underwood get their FPS velocity out of a 4" barrel fyi. Or they did, so 4.5"-5" barrel will get more horsepower. So 115gr at 1475-1500 is an average with my testing from both companies. Both are some of the best ammo made as well. Glad I found the video, good run Sam!

Another awesome video.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I have just loved Buffalo Bore's ammo in my revolvers and will be fascinated to see what it does our of a PCC

Thank you for this video.. I love the 357.. def a badass huge bullet.. 9mm or 380 still my favorite side arm unless I'm going to bear country

The hydrostatic shock of the 9mm 566lbft of energy being absorbed in 10-12" has to be a devastating wound. Not discounting FBI penetration data, just thinking out loud...

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

The FBI data takes into account side shots through an arm into the thoracic cavity. Front shots require no more than maybe 4" in a body or simulation equivalent of 8" of ballistic gel. Hydrostatic shock is a medical term where over 2,200 FPS shuts down an organ, but I knew what you meant.

Man you got like every handgun bullet out there gel tested.

Incredible , The power of a really good 357sig!

They put in big red letters in the Smith and Wesson owner's manual not to shoot +p+ through it . Lol

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Well, I understand that lol. My rundown in general with +P+ ammo, is that it's all fine for well made larger pistols like Glock, Sig, S&W etc. But we all know, if gun companies did not write the warning, some moron would take a 9mm+P+ round and put it in a Diamondback DB9 and go to town. Liability man lol

@jasonvoorhees2701

3 жыл бұрын

Smith is just as stout as any other gun on the market

@AlaskanBallistics

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonvoorhees2701 I've shot +p+ out of mine too

@ryanranard5187

3 жыл бұрын

@Florida Cracker I don’t know what you’re talking about. The S&W M&P was built around the .40. The Glock was not, so if any gun shouldn’t fire +p+ it’s Glock. Plus Glock’s barrels don’t have full support. I’ve shot plenty of +p+. Just don’t shoot a steady diet of it.

@danoneill2846

3 жыл бұрын

#1 they also say no home loads for most guns . #2 How many rounds do you fire to be sure you can TRUST IT ? Before you ever really use it , you have shot lots of rounds ! = more abuse to the gun . I think there are better choices .

I like that buffalo bore. I think i will get a box of each to play with.

A bit of coin spent on this video for the BB. Thank you SIr!

Just picked some up for 27$ a box!! So ready to try it out when it comes in!

Those 38s are no joke. That's matching the 80s FBI 357Mag velocity with the same bullet weight. It's also identical to the original 357Sig loads. That's good stuff if you can tolerate it in a pocket pistol.

That nine is a sweet round, but I can't use it bc I'm sure it would explode my carry gun. Gen 4 DB9. It barely holds together with FMJ rounds. Great review, u have some really nice guns!

Excellent video and VERY comprehensive, one of your very best. BB is again.....just mind blowing. They claim "blended" or "non-canister" powders to get those velocities. Don't know if that's 100% accurate but clearly much of their stuff is well into the redline. However they do it, whether it's special powders or crazy pressure, nevertheless they do it. However, I wouldn't use this info to formulate any concrete assumption that 9mm vastly outperforms 38 SPL.

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Well I agree, because performance is not energy period. I have noticed in a lot of my testing, that whatever a 9mm does at 350 ft lbs, the .38 Special at 225 ft lbs matches it exactly, other than hard barrier penetration. I think this is mostly because .38 Special usually has a larger hollow cavity and flatter nose than the 9mm. And also, once you get enough energy to get the job done, more energy doesn't necessarily bring more to the table unless it's a significant increase.

Can confirm that Underwood has +P+ 115 at 1400 tested (by their declaration) from a 4" barrel. I use a stainless 4.5" 416R barrel with comp. in my Taurus G3 and it works with their ammo just fine. Would be curious to see a chrono of the Buff Bore or Underwood ammo out of a 4.5" My guess is an average of 350fps per inch for the Buff Bore/Underwood. So a 4.5" would be throwing it out at 1480-1550fps.

I've got some Ranger T 127 grain +p+. It's been a long time since I looked at it. If my memory serves me right, its velocity is around 1250-ish. The longest barrel I have for it is the 4.7 inch on my P320. I expected more penetration from the Buffalo Bore 9mm.

@Carv97

11 ай бұрын

The ranger T series 127 grain plus P plus is what I carried as well… I just switched over recently to spear because my rounds were four years old and I didn’t have any more left , in theory they may function well but I’m not willing to risk it

The 9 mm light and fast loads smack explosively and dump energy in the target. I’ve played around with .36 cap and ball through the ammo shortage. 140 grain flat top conicals moving 800-900 fps punch through a water jug without moving it. Holes just magically appear on the plastic. By contrast, loading an 83 grain round ball moving 1,000+ fps punches the same hole, but kicks the jug 3 feet off the ground.

I think this test really shows the superiority of your testing methods compared to gel. It's more real world. Gel is fine but to actually go through flesh and bone simulation shows how devastating these two rounds are. Let's face it; the thought of getting hit with those rounds after looking at the bologna pack says it all. Keep up the great work!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. What was eye opening for me, is when I saw a video of a guy holding a fragmented and expanded 129 gr Hydrashok bullet (.38 Special) that he recovered from a hog. Looked exactly like the bullet condition after my Jug-or-Not test. But that same round into gel, total failure to expand. So it's a balance of testing, no one professional will except any test other than gel, yet at the same time gel does not give real world results despite "experts" saying that gel is a representation of tissue.

Good stuff!

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Another video I missed I have been a big semi auto guy for ever until i recently rediscovered revolvers.357 .38

All things considered your a pretty damn good shot. 👍

very cool gun sam and id love to have both kinds of ammo for my 38 and for my 9mm just in case

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

@joemorganeatmyshortschannel

3 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam i think the stuff in my g2c now is grizzly 115 grain plus p jhp seems hot

Nice video. Good information too. I will continue to use Hornady 124 grain Critical Duty. If you go to court the prosecution will question why you used the ammunition involved in the shooting. Peace be upon Grinch!

Federal used to load a +P+ 9mm. Im pretty sure it was a 115 grain HP, too. Back in the 90's. But it was primarily a LEO offering. Most of those agencies who issued it, I think, primarily did so in SWAT MP5 sub guns.

@GunSam

7 ай бұрын

Illinois state police. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZXaolrp7mJfRdKw.html

This is a good comparison. I would like to see how this compares to Hirtenberger +P+. Thank You,

You might want to look up Hirtenberger L7A1. lol I read those things are pumping out about 600 ft/lbs of energy. With a 124 grain bullet. But they're not designed for pistols. Might go boom.

Great video , love this channel , how would buffalo bore 45acp compare? And fired through a 1911

That was awesome! That 9mm did exactly what I would want for CCW.

Thats impressive ammo