“It was kind of dark… I didn’t like the blood… It was heavy.” Uh yeah, it was a MURDER. A very bloody, violent murder. The child was nearly decapitated. These are some dippy people.

@NeyDogg

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah interesting but strange thoughts

@KDawnn

Жыл бұрын

I mean they’re Mormon so…😂😂😂

As a non-Mormon, I want y’all to know that it was quite obvious to us, the viewers, that most Mormons are normal people and the Lafferty family were extreme fundamentalists. The police officer and Brenda’s family shows us what normal People who are Mormon are like.

@UdoADHD

2 жыл бұрын

@@ajhindalou quite right to me too

@dirtdarte

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds to me that you don't know much about Mormons... investigate the Mountain meadows massacre.... Murder is a well established pattern. Even Ted Buddy was a Mormon. Gary Ridgway was closely connected to mormons as was Israel Keyes... born a Mormon. Murder is part of the fundamentalist culture of Mormonism.

@UdoADHD

2 жыл бұрын

@@dirtdarte My comment literally says “as a non-Mormon” so I’d hope that implies I’m just a regular non Mormon person who is watching this show. My comment shared the impression the show gives to someone like me.

@syfields8154

2 жыл бұрын

Mormonism is the world's most dangerous cult. Mormon doctrine teaches that men become gods and get a harem of celestial goddess wives. And that black people sinned in the pre-existent spirit world were cursed with black skin. And when I was a naive Mormon convert at BYU in the seventies, BYU students that were gay were given electro-genital shock therapy and vomit therapy to "cure" their homosexuality. I also learned sbout bloody Mormon history, such as the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where Mormons murdered over 100 men, women, and children. Thank God I escaped them. Mormonism is a big business empire rhat masqerades as a "church". Beware!

@JustinZarian

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve heard a number of my wife’s non Mormon friends (including a very devout catholic and a Muslim from Saudi Arabia) react the way you have, so I’m glad this sentiment isn’t just being attributed as Mormons giving knee jerk reactions. The intentions of this show are just so transparent.

The "breeds dangerous men" should be expected for a man raised by extremist parents and traumatized by extremist brothers, especially since his wife and daughter were just killed by dangerous extremist men.

@Moreion

11 ай бұрын

Agree. I just finished watching the show and I can totally understand Allen character. Maybe this guys will find out more and more and opf course understand when all this character comes from by episode 5. But I can understand too that being living on the "cool" part of the mormons all their life can be hard to understand the whole picture.

@mariahclaar7915

3 ай бұрын

I knew the nephew of Ron and Dan very well. He was one of my favorite people in the world. He was also a little nuts.

As a Mormon who left the church it is really hard to find some thing that I can relate to regarding my faith crisis and my struggle when I found certain information out. No I didn’t of course go through what Andrew Garfield character did, but the way you see him struggle is how I felt. And it’s also weird that some of my reasonings for leaving the church is actually portrayed in the show. If I was still Mormon and watching the show I wouldn’t believe half of it. 😅.

@bobbob679

2 жыл бұрын

I left the church, but never had a conversation with church leaders about it. Does anyone know if this is true where they say keep it on a shelf?

@CJ-qw4og

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobbob679 in Mormonism they teach you to only ask questions that will reassure your faith not things that may question it. When I was in girls camp with the Mormon church whenever I’d say anything about there being grey in the world or me questioning the scriptures of being fable lessons and metaphors over actual stories, they seemed bothered by my free thought and made me feel small and wrong for questioning the religion.

@TuathaTuna

2 жыл бұрын

@@CJ-qw4og exactly. It’s a cult all you Mormons and never Mormons. BYU grad here ✌️

@anna-lisabiddle9508

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! "Never question the church" is something I heard a lot. If it was negative... No way it was true lol

@vickietaylor4930

2 жыл бұрын

So sad for you

I've watched the entire 1st season.... and was an adult LDS member when all this actually happened. The show is dramatized with lots of effects that make it interesting to a non LDS audience. I read the book 20 years ago which is much more descriptive, expansive and is very well written. It seems to me that your review is very shallow, superficial and dismissive. You seem to be attempting to dissuade potential viewers from watching the series and at the same time dismissing quirky Mormon behaviors that you aren't familiar with but which actually were a regular part of LDS living for segments of the Church in the 70's and 80's. I'm not condemning you for that, maybe you just don't know or understand that there are and were segments of LDS members that absolutely did operate that way. The days before the internet, LDS members were very much more tightly controlled by the Church and the Priesthood. The real message to understand and digest is the unique doctrine of individual revelation with deference to the leadership in SLC. When individuals receive their own revelation directly from God that contradicts the direction of the leadership of the Church and the leaders of the Church cannot give adequate or sufficient real answers to questions.... problems will emerge. This story is just one example. More recently we are reminded of this same pattern with the Lori and Chad Daybell murders. They were out to kill family members they categorized as zombies. When feelings are facts and your feelings change... your facts change. This why feelings interpreted as revelation is dangerous and harmful. How you feel about something has no influence on facts and can never be a test of truth.

@dirtdarte

2 жыл бұрын

@@sb3065 Nephi believed in God and under Gods direction, he hacked off the head of a drunk man in a Jerusalem alley. (BOM story) This is the mindset of religious fanatics. The ends justify the means... The Lafferty brothers in their religious delusion believed they were ordered by personal revelation from God to "remove" people that presented obstacles to Gods "plan". This is not new in mormonism... it's literally doctrinal. Preaching the love and peace gospel and at the same time ignoring the actual track record of violence and coercion is simply not paying attention. Believing in something doesn't mean that what you believe in is actually real. Faced with that reality, being a good, kind, understanding, loving person has nothing whatsoever with God in his heaven. Obeying rules doesn't actually make you a good person... it makes you obedient. Understanding and living a moral life makes you moral. A moral God CANNOT at the same time command not to kill and then decide to order the killing of individuals or nations. Morality is not negotiable. If morality were negotiable, it would be a rule or a law.

@bradleyjohnson6107

2 жыл бұрын

This is an absolutely brilliant comment. Well done.

@jameskrenz175

2 жыл бұрын

@@sb3065 the show does a good job between differentiating between overt religious violence(which was much more present in the beginning of the church and is represented by flashbacks and the murders in the show) opposed to covert violence which is more common and harder to spot(one moment this stuck out is when Andrew Garfield’s character wanted to postpone his daughters baptism and his wife pushes back because of the likely public ridicule.) Both types of ‘violence’ are rooted in faith, one is radical and fundamentalist, whereas the other isn’t but is harder to extinguish. If the laffertys weren’t taught or believed in the blood atonement, or even better, we’re genuine atheists, the murder wouldn’t happen. It’s very short sited to say when people have true faith they aren’t violent, the reality is some people are born violent and are placed with opportunity and motive which leads to violence which both can be bred in any organized religion. On the flip side some people are better natured and would be good people regardless of their faith.

@CJ-qw4og

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameskrenz175 you are very wise. I appreciate the open mindedness and accuracy in your comments.

Religion doesn't create bad or dangerous people, but bad or dangerous people will use it to their advantage.

@rachelczumaya2806

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Hitler had no religious motive promoting his sick minded ethnic cleansing massacre. Yet they LOVE TO BLAME RELIGION… 🙄😏

@Servant_of_Yeshua96

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah like God doesn't do this. Literally the Ten Commandments God gave us is Thou Shalt not Kill.

@andreamesser4580

2 жыл бұрын

Yesssssss!

@prettyinpain5

2 жыл бұрын

@@Servant_of_Yeshua96 How did that work out for Laban? If you think that commandment prevents people from killing in the name of god, you have not read your scriptures.

@icemoney24

2 жыл бұрын

well said

I love how these three want to give a warning about naughty words and a shower scene in the show but almost forget about the actual traumatizing part of the show - the violent murders. Religious people are so weird about what they find offensive.

@SaintsUnscripted

2 жыл бұрын

Fortunately the violent murders aren’t (yet) fully shown and we’re assuming that most people who watch the trailer or read anything about the show understand that the murder is the (supposed) premise of the entire show. That’s why we subconsciously didn’t mention the murder but rather mentioned what you might not expect upon watching the show.

@SailingSeignior

2 жыл бұрын

@@SaintsUnscripted Sure they weren’t fully shown but an adult corpse covered in blood is shown at the beginning of the first episode. Going by that logic though, what’s the need to mention the shower scene since neither actor was “fully” exposed? Overall, Americans and especially religious Americans seem to be desensitized to violence - especially since the culture seems fixated on sex and “offensive” language rather than violence which actually does immense damage particularly in the US compared to other industrialized nations.

@dakotak8169

2 жыл бұрын

A big issue with western culture and religion is how much stigma is around the human body and sexuality, but violence is rarely frowned upon. Bare breasts are not explicit in any way, yet they are sexualized. PG13 movies can have gore and head shots however. It's all asinine.

@dissident_mantis7

2 жыл бұрын

Not a Mormon, but I am a Catholic. Sexually explicit scenes can be scandalizing to those of us who are trying to live chaste lives and many of us don’t want to see that stuff. Gruesome murder scenes generally don’t make people want to go out and commit murder the way sexually explicit scenes make people think unchaste thoughts. Non-religious people are weird about not understanding that there are people out there who are not interested in seeing sexually explicit images.

@SailingSeignior

2 жыл бұрын

@@dissident_mantis7 Rejecting basic human sexuality isn’t healthy. You also compared the _act_ of murder to sexual _thoughts._ You’re not comparing the same things. That’s a false analogy. Murder scenes may make homicidal people think of murder just like sexual scenes may make virgins think of sex. So what?

Your video brought my PTSD into overdrive, grateful I found my way out of the LDS Church!!

@KDawnn

Жыл бұрын

I am freshly out as of November 2022 and I just wanna shake them and help them out.😂

@tam323

Жыл бұрын

I was Mormon in the 80s and remember it vividly. These young people doing this vid have noooooooo idea how different the doctrine and policies were back then. We referred to ourselves as Mormons and were proud of being separated from "the world" and we NEVER said "God", never! We only said Heavenly father, anything else was considered disrespect that would make an entire room gasp. Haha. And heaven forbid you say Jesus, without adding "Christ" as a surname, of even worse, pray in modern English instead of old English. Those are just some superficial things, I won't even go into the doctrinal changes. Good Lord, I'm so glad I only spent 28yr in that mind trap!

@GC2024_

Жыл бұрын

@@tam323 im glad you're out; my parents were converts. I was 6 yrs old when they decided to join and drug their four children along I could not protest at 6 🤷‍♀️🤣 I was in over 50+yrs.

@GC2024_

Жыл бұрын

@@KDawnn im glad you are out

@tam323

Жыл бұрын

@@GC2024_ I was born into it and didn't know any different until I became an adult and decided to actually study what it was that I was devoting my entire life and 10% of all my income too. A couple years of doing that and I could no longer in good conscience remain in such a church. I've been out for 20yr now and leaving was the best decision I ever made. I celebrate your release from it too!😊

When I was younger (born in '93), we NEVER said God. It was always HF and things have changed over the years

@pepperplz783

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. I converted in the mid 00s and it was almost always Heavenly Father and everyone calling each other Brother and Sister So and so then too. I’d have expected these people to be old enough to remember how common it was even just a little while ago. Tbh I’m surprised to hear it’s been changed so dramatically since I was an active member. It feels disingenuous to act like that was distant history or trying to make LDS people look bad.

This has the vibe of the professor telling you “discus this with the person sitting next to you” in class and then you have a really awkward chat for a few minutes

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe because that is what this is. Unscripted reactions.

@sydneysovern

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 No professor sat them down in a class room, this is a KZread video. I’ve seen so much content that is unscripted and not awkward like this. Gold star ⭐️ for trying to defend them though.

I grew up in the 70s-80s in Utah and can tell you members used the term Heavenly Father more than today.

@moronirubio2778

2 жыл бұрын

It is still the main way in Latin America.

@j4r3d29

2 жыл бұрын

We still say “Heavenly Father” in my family

@izzieluv

Жыл бұрын

I grew up in Utah in the 90s and even then it was used a lot more. I personally don't find it that weird, probably because it's what I am used to, but I also think it helped foster the relationship I have with God where I do view him as a father.

2:05 She seems disappointed that this series is kinda dark and disturbing compared to spiderman. Since it's a true crime story about a young woman and her infant daughter getting murdered, I'm not sure how it couldn't be dark and disturbing, especially compared to a marvel comics movie.

@colemanharris5950

2 жыл бұрын

Lol right

Allen Lafferty's line about the church breeding dangerous men was a bit over the top, but it works for that character. He grew up in a very conservative LDS family where the men wore their patriarchy on their sleeves. His father killed the family dog in front of the kids, and his older brothers murdered his wife and child on orders from God. So I can understand why Allen Lafferty feels that way. If Jed or Brenda's father (or any of the other mainstream LDS character) had said that line, then it would have been strange and out of character, because mainstream LDS men are not dangerous, or any more dangerous than the average man. Allen Lafferty's opinion was shaped by his life experience.

@lukesteele4510

2 жыл бұрын

It's too bad that Alan is also a made up character. If you haven't seen the episode with one of their jailers one of their main reasons for murdering her was that Ron blamed her for his divorce. I was young but I remember the news coverage of this case.

@porkchopproductions0314

2 жыл бұрын

It's ironic that Allen is portrayed this way and even after the murders, he remains an active member of the Church. It hasn't done any interviews, which is understandable

@lukesteele4510

2 жыл бұрын

@@porkchopproductions0314 Maybe he hasn't given any interviews because he is made up. ;-o

@dygz

2 жыл бұрын

Allen Lafferty is not a "made up" character. Who do you think Brenda's husband was? You may mean that his portrayal is exaggerated.

@lukesteele4510

2 жыл бұрын

@@dygz No I looked up the notes on the show and Allen is a made up character along with detective Pyre just to tell the story that the show creator wanted. In other words to have the ridiculous over the top conversations that shape the message they want to deliver. There was a murder but this show is being portrayed less and less like the real event and case and more like the imagined story of the author with little to no input by those who were involved like the Laufferty family or the actual detectives.

"If you're not a member of our faith and you're not interested in our faith, I don't know how interesting this series will be for you." Lol. I disagree. The most interesting, intriguing, dramatic, horrifying, and incredible parts of LDS history are the real, gritty stories of its past. The early LDS church accomplished something incredible and they did incorrigible things (and had horrible things happen to them) in order to do it (for themselves, to be clear, not for any kind of god). THAT is the most interesting western there has ever been. But pretending that it was a noble mission has required the LDS church to white wash the true story. I hope more films and shows come out to tell those real stories.

@theBSinBusiness

2 жыл бұрын

Amen. ;)

@torinielson963

2 жыл бұрын

I think when they say the word “interested” this is exactly what they meant. You’ve clearly put enough thought into it to be considered “interested” in what goes on in the LDS faith. The show is made around that haha it’s not really a murder mystery. It’s a Mormon mystery

@domramirez6878

2 жыл бұрын

@@torinielson963 Yah, dude! I'm totally enthralled by this stuff. #1 target buyer for sure. But I think these wild stories about LDS history are interesting to a lot more people than my demographic, particularly when they're not whitewashed.

@jimiperri9135

2 жыл бұрын

I use to go to Mormon then I thought you’re not the only true in the surface of the earth nobody mean nobody can talk God without Jesus so you can’t talk to God through Joseph Smith you need Jesus

I work for the Church in Publishing Services. I actually know and work with the son of one of the Lafferty killers. He was just a kid when it all happened. He's disavowed his father and uncle completely and has tried his best to move on with his life. I can't imagine what it's like for him though.

Good people will do good things. Bad people will do bad things. *Religion can get good people to do REALLY bad things. I've seen it for myself.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's in Idaho. I am not Mormon, but had many friends that were LDS. My sister in law married into the faith. I could relate to much of the dialog from this mini series when it came to the non fundamentalist Mormons. They used "sister" and "brother" all the time in church settings and non church settings. And "Heavenly Father" was used all the time. So maybe it was an earlier custom. And "oh my heck" was uttered daily. Always made me laugh.

As a "never Mormon", but born/raised in Utah, I think this comes across as INCREDIBLY naive. Even though I wasn't a "member", I had a front row seat to the LDS faith - I attended EFY twice, girls camp 5 times, sacrement meetings many times. I heard and saw things that made my skin crawl. Girls were taught to keep sweet (be quiet), to put on make up to find a husband, to submit to their husbands in "all desires". I saw girls twist themselves into mental pretzels to meet the "requirements" for marrying a "return missionary". I heard men tell women that their place is only in the home. I even witnessed men blaming young girls for their attraction to them. And, I know of friends who "consented" to things against their will, in the name of the church. If anything, this Hulu show is kind. But, my best friends were all mormon too. They were/are WONDERFUL people. I still live in Utah because I appreciate the general culture that the LDS church promotes. I just wish that members were a bit more educated on the origins of the church. Because it's very dark.

@Killgore-ip2yq

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not of the Mormon faith and agree with you the same, but the origins of the faith, whether they are real or not don't matter in the end. Mormonism despite it's flaws is not a cult. Mormons have reject the trappings of their fundamentalist LDS cousin to have adapted with the time unlike other new age religions. Religion ain't perfect, but the people in it can be great like you said.

@paulgregersen3570

2 жыл бұрын

Judas who killed Jesus by his betrayal was a dark story too. The church of Christ will always have a Judas. But overall the church is a great influence more than not. You don't see LDS missionaries flying planes into buildings or relief society sisters robbing banks. The majority of their youth are honest and great trusted citizens. A Judas bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch. The movie is a false narrative of reality. The Bible itself proves Joseph Smith. Click KZread video titled " Book of Abraham part 9'" The Bibles timeline through math adds exactly to the church restoration in 1830. No man can dispute the science of this fact.

@chevonbayless798

2 жыл бұрын

Agree

@cornichonsgrrrl

2 жыл бұрын

This was excatly my experience being raised in the church

@paulgregersen3570

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornichonsgrrrl My experience was far from negative. The kids were all happy and learned to have clean fun instead of the public school influences which were gutter language and a language cheapening process of sex and women. Women who married those missionaries became happy and most never divorced like those out of the church where anything goes.

I hope you keep doing these reactions. I want to see what your thoughts are when episodes 6 & 7 come out and we see the full story arc and why they chose certain story telling conventions.

I was born LDS, was an active member for 25 years, attended college at BYU Idaho, and have lived in Utah for 18 years. This show is ridiculously accurate. I think Mormons get scared when they're depicted accurately because they don't realize how weird their culture is until someone shows it from an outsiders point of view. I get it though, when I was still active I remember getting super offended by how Mormons were depicted in pop culture in things like the Mormon South Park episode, Big Love, and Angels in America. In retrospect, I think I was just embarrassed because deep down I understood how creepy and cultish we come across to others.

@mikusheadphones

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly this. They also are purposely ignoring that the Lafferty's are LITERALLY a fundamentalist/fringe mormon fundie group. It's wild to see how active the apologetics are right now, seeing as this is the most accurate mormon lifestyle portrayal, especially for the time period, ever in hollywood.

@briannajonson7128

2 жыл бұрын

This. 🔥

@TickleMeElmo55

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikusheadphones But aren't the Lafferty's the minority within the LDS? You did say fundie/fringe. "They also are purposely ignoring that the Lafferty's are LITERALLY a fundamentalist/fringe mormon fundie group." You need to chill with your zealotry, as ironic as that is. At around the 21:00 mark they acknowledged that the Lafferty's were excommunicated before the murders happened.

@fatheroften3730

2 жыл бұрын

Nope. If you grew up acting and talking like that, then no wonder you left the church. We weren't cringy like that. At least most of us weren't.

@richarddick2955

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Baptist who grew up in Utah. I've went to school with countless Mormons and knew their families and played sports with all of them. I've honestly never seen one Mormon friend, nor acquaintance, nor even their parents act like what was portrayed in this stupid movie. This is obviously a hit peace done by very biased people trying to mischaracterize an entire religious population as being somehow cult like. If i wasn't raised in this area already I might have possibly fallen for it. They portray all of these people as acting and talking like the Amish or some far out religion in the hills. Its ridiculous! Mormons don't even talk like this in my school nor even in church. to myself they act like normal every day people. Why the effort to demonize an entire group of people because of a couple of freaks that you can find in any other religion anywhere today? it tries to make a fiction movie using extreme far out craziness that obviously doesn't fit any criteria of the church anyway? Are any of you really that stupid to fall for any of this?

I love the picture of Nordic Jesus that is displayed prominently in the fore front.

@PengPoyZneiz

Жыл бұрын

He could be fram south Africa as far as you would now!

@tam323

Жыл бұрын

White Jesus strikes again!

I was a child in the church in the 80s and it was preferred to say "Heavenly Father" almost exclusively. There were a lot of things you modern members find strange that are accurate. Brother and Sister were also prevalent. Women and girls were treated as second and basically as indentured servants in their homes, UNTIL the prophet spoke out against it. I remember an 1st counselor scolding me for not wanting to be a traditional woman at 13.

@annwood6812

2 жыл бұрын

You are implying Mormon women today are not treated like second class? Did I miss the part where they were allowed to join the priesthood, become bishops or mission presidents? Did I miss the part where the polygamy scriptures were removed and female missionaries could baptize their own converts?

@briannajonson7128

2 жыл бұрын

Right. You can’t ignore history lol the church is super sexist.

@cornichonsgrrrl

2 жыл бұрын

@@annwood6812 I am in no way implying that women aren't second class in the church today. I am an ex-mormon and fierce intersectional feminist with a big mouth. 😀 I was simply making a direct reply to the hosts' questions on the video about the 1980s portrayal in the series.

@auntiequeenie5271

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, which prophet spoke against treating womenfolk like dishrags? How did I miss that...?

@annwood6812

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornichonsgrrrl Got it. I took it to mean, when you said UNTIL the prophet spoke out against it that somehow things suddenly improved.

SO interesting. I think this is exactly why shows like this can be valuable and instructive (aside from being entertaining) is that the newer generations do not know the history of their church and even their religious culture. Living in SLC for 3 years until 1999 I can say so far this is very accurate in the verbiage and how people speak/spoke.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

I agree! So sad that people in general don’t know history. The Mormon Church has and still does hide so much of it. In a way it’s not their fault. They’ve been trained to be lazy learners

@richarddick2955

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Baptist who grew up in Utah. I've went to school with countless Mormons and knew their families and played sports with all of them. I've honestly never seen one Mormon friend, nor acquaintance, nor even their parents act like what was portrayed in this stupid movie. This is obviously a hit peace done by very biased people trying to mischaracterize an entire religious population as being somehow cult like. If i wasn't raised in this area already I might have possibly fallen for it. They portray all of these people as acting and talking like the Amish or some far out religion in the hills. Its ridiculous! Mormons don't even talk like this in my school nor even in church. to myself they act like normal every day people. Why the effort to demonize an entire group of people because of a couple of freaks that you can find in any other religion anywhere today? it tries to make a fiction movie using extreme far out craziness that obviously doesn't fit any criteria of the church anyway? Are any of you really that stupid to fall for any of this?

@williamg780

2 жыл бұрын

You’re the only person I’ve come across that thinks that their representation of 1980s LDS culture and verbiage is accurate. I didn’t live in the 80s but I know many people who did. Additionally, you can say whatever you want about the Church teaching it’s history, but the Church is making an honest effort now with Saints. Love it or hate it, it discusses many controversial issues and lays it out in the open. I think anti-Mormons think they “know” the history when in reality they are just as polemic about telling the history of Mormonism in a negative light just as the Church has been polemic about telling the history of Mormonism in a positive light

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamg780 Good on you to be a true believer. Bad in you to dismiss what others are saying by labeling them Anti Mormons. And willfully not wanting to listen to facts. For example if you don’t think this was normal verbiage then I can’t take seriously much of what you say. If you think the church is doing their best to be honest about the past I’m interested in knowing why you think they would not be honest about it to begin with? I cannot trust a church that lies and says you can’t even question them. But sounds like it’s working for you; That’s excellent! It doesn’t make you entitled to your own facts. Members of The Church spoke this way. Just facts

@williamg780

2 жыл бұрын

@@dianethulin1700 saying you won’t take someone seriously if they don’t conform to a very narrow parameter you set up is quite a convenient excuse to not listen to that person. I wasn’t dismissing them. If I were, I wouldn’t have commented. And whether church members did or did not talk like that in the 80s isn’t really a matter of fact, but if lived memory and interpretation. But whether they did or did not talk like that is besides the more grievous point of the show getting much of the history wrong (good grief, they suggest Brigham Young killed Joseph Smith, a claim with no bearing in reality). Saints is written by numerous scholars-both literary and historical. I think I’d trust that more than some ex-member who left the church in his teens. I’m not discounting Black’s experiences, I’m just saying there are more credible people to listen to. [Edit: more credible people to listen to with regards to the study of church history]. With that said, yes the Church has been dishonest in the past. Sure, you can conveniently ignore the Church if you want. But that would be a willing ignorance by implicitly saying that because the Church was bad in the past, it is bad now-as if nothing has changed from the anti-intellectual time of Ezra Benson, Boyd Packer, and Mark Petersen. But the actual fact of the matter is, things have change. And the Church is far more honest than it has ever been before. But besides the Church, there are multiple, more credible sources to get information. Why do I need to have an antagonistic view of Church history to be critical of it? Is it possible at all, in your eyes, that faithful members can critically examine their own past?

I’d like to preface this by stating that I am not longer Mormon, but was raised in the Kirtland Ohio Stake (rich with LDS history - Kirtland temple, John Johnson home, etc.) and was baptized in 1995. My uncle was a bishop and my father was part of a bishopric and then a branch president, himself. 5:32-5:40 - Something important to note about this show is that the true history of the LDS church is lost on modern Mormons. Many things they taught and preached as doctrine when I was a child have faded into obscurity. Many of the practices and beliefs the Lafferty family were raised in have been somehow forgotten and are unknown to the majority of Mormons today. 6:42-7:04 - Have you ever been to seminary or a scripture chase? LDS youth are trained and taught to memorize and recite specific scriptures as part of their social life in the Mormon church. It was never uncommon to hear scriptures quoted in any aspect of your social life. 9:17-10:25 - The hierarchy of the LDS church is 100% patriarchal. There is no position in the Mormon church that a woman can hold that isn’t overseen my men. This is true from the family unit to the position of prophet and president. There is no female position in the church that does not have to answer to a man and a woman cannot ever hold the priesthood or become a prophet. “Mind your property” seems pretty fitting when used in that context. It almost seems that a Heavenly Mother would just be used to produce infinite offspring for a Heavenly Father to preside over. As you can see in general conference, she’s not give much power aside from that. 10:24-10:26- BYU has been known by many to be a place where Mormon women go to find their husbands. Not as a place to truly achieve anything other than her duty, which is to honor and obey her priesthood holder and raise more children to repeat the process. 18:01-18:25 - Isaac Hale had a very strong distaste for Joseph Smith. Brenda’s father likely felt similar feelings about Allen Lafferty. In both cases, Joseph and Allen argued that just because your father in law (or future father in law) doesn’t like you, it doesn’t mean you’re wrong. In fact, it shows that they’ve both been doubted and falsely judged for their views. There are more points to address and each of these points lead down very deep rabbit holes that I don’t have time to explore right now. I was raised Mormon, so I understand that most Mormons are good people. However, the lack of accountability and acknowledgment leads me to believe that these “secrets” are being hidden away and swept under the rug. The history of the church is rather disturbing, and I know a lot has changed since the early days, but that isn’t a foundation I’d want to build a house upon.

@FelixFelicis968

2 жыл бұрын

great info ty

@TheDistractionMan

2 жыл бұрын

@@FelixFelicis968 Thank you! And thanks for taking the time to read it all 😅

@anna-lisabiddle9508

2 жыл бұрын

Wow you did what I was too lazy to do. But also I'm watching this very late lol! Thank you!!! Alright I'm going to bed😅

@TheDistractionMan

2 жыл бұрын

@@anna-lisabiddle9508 No problem! I’m halfway through the book now and it has so many more details about the church history. It’s an incredible and fascinating story. Creepy and horrifying, but very fascinating.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

Isaac Hale my hero! He was not somebody to be played. I had relatives who were in Ohio and some of them formed their own polygamous sects after the deaths of the Smith brothers. Others went to Nauvoo and onto Utah. I totally agree that the history is so interesting! I feel that most people don't know any kind of history; much less Mormon history

Cwic talked about this as well and he is an older gentleman who did live in the time of this movie and if I remember correctly he even was familiar with the area this show is based on.

@rachelczumaya2806

2 жыл бұрын

He lived in the area and the depiction of the show was nothing like how the church was. It’s really poorly researched

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

I would use him as one source but keep in mind he is an apologetic

I was alive in the 80's. Show respect for your elders. You're making me feel old.

Not Morman but I retired from the military recently and I was stationed in Utah for 41/2 half years and I thought this show was AMAZING! I have a lot of Mormon friends and I’ve heard this show was pretty accurate . I’m also 44,.and when I was in Utah I was 30, this is what it was like and I have friends that say this show was pretty accurate. You have to remember this show was portrayed the 80’s and you guys weren’t born, so it was a different time

I like the straightforwardness of the presenters: their openheartedness, their plain-spoken directness.

When Ron and Dan committed their crime they were not part of any fundamentalist group. They were on their own. They were claiming their own revelations, and following their own counsel. They had been in an organization called the School of the Prophets for two and a half months, but had been cast out of it three and a half months earlier. They had rejected its revelations and its counsel and were on their own.

@kawakami789

2 жыл бұрын

So are you trying to say the religion had nothing to do with their actions?? Because they may have been kicked out for three months but they were indoctrinated in crazy religious beliefs for 40 years. That is like saying I quit smoking for three months after 40 years of 2 packs a day so the cancer couldn’t have been caused by smoking. Quit trying to make excuses and tell the truth about extremist cult religious beliefs.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

I think that the Church tells us to pray and reach our own conclusions. You cannot say that the Church does not encourage this kind of thinking

@vfxtutswithdan1893

2 жыл бұрын

@@dianethulin1700 I think it can easily be said that the Church does not encourage 'this kind' of thinking.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 Or ANY kind of thinking. They do encourage this prepper mentality. Their history is littered with this fanaticism. I cannot agree they don’t encourage “this kind” of thinking. That kind of apologetic reasoning allows so many to gloss over the facts

@porkchopproductions0314

2 жыл бұрын

They were kicked out when Dan said God told him to kill Brenda and their baby along with the bishop and stake president. The School of the Prophets rejected them and that's when they kicked them out. The murders happened afterwards

My grandparents were the Laffertys home teachers. My family is very connected to this and it makes me uncomfortable. We just found this out too.

@HellMxge

2 жыл бұрын

so sad

I'm an 80s gal and Heavenly Father was what we used and I still do. You were right on when you said that!

I Have lived in Utah most of my life and the show does a a really really good job of portraying members of the church. *every member I know says Heavenly Father lol and so many members and friends quote scriptures, and I’m dying at the in the ward is where we say brother/sister 🤣 y’all say it all the time! Especially within the Latin community /wards* There are families here that are treated and known as “lds royalty” especially when they can trace back to pioneer ancestry. We all of course know and understand that the brothers were extremists and what they did was horrific. I wish that y’all had taken the opportunity to actually address the things y’all talked about without the denial of them existing..it’s a part of the/your lds church, it’s been really strong in the past, talking about that and how modern they are now. This faith like many others do breed dangerous members, no church is safe from that situation :/

@AlaskanMisfit487

2 жыл бұрын

That’s what the church is known for though. Always playing damage control instead of just admiring the truth and learning from it…

@Kev_pencils

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, we refer to God as Heavenly Father, but that often, just like in this video is pointed out. Do we quote scriptures? same. Just when we talk to another LDS friend and/or in the church. It all depends on the context. Refering to others from the membresy as sister/brother is not exclusive in the church. It's the same in other Christian churches. No surprises here. About this "Mormon royalty" you talked about, not sure. I haven't met any "noble" from these lineages, although, just like in any group of people, you will always find "better positioned" people among the rest. In my experience it has little to do with lineage.

@capitalizingcapitalist1202

Жыл бұрын

@@AlaskanMisfit487 no, it’s the secular media who is always jumping at the bit to slam the church. Whether it be LDS, catholic, Muslim etc. well not really Islam, they’ll kill you if you do so people bite their tounge on that one. I would love to see Hollywood focus on these scandals that happen to all manner of people and not just the typical, female or homosexual victim.

@pamelaq6185

Жыл бұрын

Oh please. Even us never-mos who have grown up in LDS communities know who are the families with power and influence. No surprise there.

The depiction of Joseph is more closely to the truth than what the church teaches.

@richardclark2495

2 жыл бұрын

While the basic aspects of their portrayal of Joseph is accurate, they are only showing a fraction of who he was. They are using a piece to represent the whole; only showing what fits their narrative. And, yes, I'd love for more content to be created by the Church or by members of the Church that talk about polygamy and the more controversial aspects of it (such as Joseph lying to Emma and telling everyone he wasn't practicing polygamy when he was). I think that (aside from missing what I just said) he is portrayed fairly accurately in Church-related media. One movie that came out recently that is the closest to this fair representation of Joseph was "Witnesses."

@HellMxge

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, the truth is that nobody knows for real, just like jesus nobody really know him besides to an spiritual level

@richarddick2955

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Baptist who grew up in Utah. I've went to school with countless Mormons and knew their families and played sports with all of them. I've honestly never seen one Mormon friend, nor acquaintance, nor even their parents act like what was portrayed in this stupid movie. This is obviously a hit peace done by very biased people trying to mischaracterize an entire religious population as being somehow cult like. If i wasn't raised in this area already I might have possibly fallen for it. They portray all of these people as acting and talking like the Amish or some far out religion in the hills. Its ridiculous! Mormons don't even talk like this in my school nor even in church. to myself they act like normal every day people. Why the effort to demonize an entire group of people because of a couple of freaks that you can find in any other religion anywhere today? it tries to make a fiction movie using extreme far out craziness that obviously doesn't fit any criteria of the church anyway? Are any of you really that stupid to fall for any of this?

@shanemicah6371

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardclark2495 "what fits their narrative" Are you saying that Joseph Smith did not have relations with his step-daughters?

@bilagaana1238

2 жыл бұрын

It’s funny that the show could not even get little things right. For example they say that Joseph had the first vision at 15 years old. Really?! You could ask any child in the church primary and they would know he was 14. They also say he went to pray because of his love for Emma. He didn’t even know Emma at that time! The show has very little accuracy and blows so many things out of proportion for simply the entertainment.

I lived where this happened Ron was my scout master his daughter was my age a great friend Ron activated my parents got them to go to the temple. I can tell you in and out of church in that community saying Heavenly father and calling members brother and sisters in and out of the church meaning in the community was common very common

I've only ever heard members of the church use it as a greeting. Like," Oh, good morning Bro. Smith!"

I think the reason that they say brother & sister so much is so that the audience can get the same feeling of how connected the members of the church are to each other. Especially for the viewers who don't know much about the religion. Family, and what families mean to different characters in the show is a driving plot point.

All of the Mormon dialog and speaking habits were totally 100% accurate for 80’s/90’s. I don’t know about now but atleast through 99-ish when I stopped being forced to go that’s how everyone talked

They keep getting hung up on the little unimportant details, like the age of Brigham young, as evidence that the show was inaccurate, so they can brush off/avoid the important and dark truths about the Mormon church displayed in the show.

Did any of the video presenters or those who have commented read the book by the same name? What were your thoughts on the book?

These 3 are almost scarier than anyone in the MINI-SERIES.

I'm from the Netherlands and grew up atheist (my family was Catholic, but a lot of people stopped practising faith after ww2). So, before watching the series, I had the bare minimum knowledge of mormanism/the LDS. I feel like you're taking the series too personally. I thought the bits of history showed us how the Lafferty brothers strayed from a path that was once the ideal (according to Joseph Smith), and became extremists in their faith. They also started implementing outdated cultural norms from the time frame that Joseph Smith was alive, which simply didn't fit into society in the 1980s. They became fundamentalists and were excommunicated by the church for practising in the fundamentalist way. Not once did I believe all Mormons were like them. I think it was rooted in their traumatic youth and taking rules that were simply outdated too far, which resulted in them becoming extremists within their faith. Unfortunately, ultimately, using their faith as an excuse for the murders of two innocent people. I don't think it paints the entire church in a bad light. The temple rituals, etc, are simply quite foreign to individuals who have never seen these types of practices before. I hope a complete outsider perspective on how the show was presented helps LDS members who may have felt offended by this portrayal of their faith.

Not a member, but working with LDS members for decades who were very open to explaining their religion, and having read the book, I think (up to Ep03) it is quite exceptional in exploring the tension between the church and the secular world. While they suggest religious doctrine is not engaged outside of church and prayer - that’s not true. I recall specifically a business meeting where one member of our business unhappy with another (who was a member) asked “are you fair in your dealings with your fellow man?” LDS members will understand this as a fundamental question for what is called a “Temple Recommend” - which is a hige deal. There are LDS members who I would describe as “orthodox” - not extreme or fundamentalist, but who cannot conceive of questioning their church… which can lead to “dangerous men”… and those who are believers, but who can express an understanding of the questionable aspects of their Church. Of the history of people like Brigham Young, and, say, Porter Rockwell. The movie, so far, explores this pretty well. Krakauer does it better. Blind faith - Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, whatever, is problematic. This is the point. Of course, in fairness, this movie is very politically acceptable be uase its about LDS members - but the same story if, say, written about Bin Laden, would result in rioting in the streets. But don’t try and cover for Brigham Young please. Full disclosure - I’m an extra in the movie :)

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

A very good comment! I blame Brigham Young personally for some atrocities that occurred in my family. A couple of my ancestors; siblings had different experiences with him. One of them fled for her life under escort of the US Army. The other one is infamous and this is not the forum to discuss. But yes, it was reprehensible BY to blame. The past casts a long shadow

@Kit-se3zs

2 жыл бұрын

To be clear, it's a tv series, not a movie.

What kind of stones did Joseph Smith use to translate his books?

The clips with Andrew Garfield make it seem melodramatic. I think I would be laughing throughout it. Reminds me of Kirby Heyborn playing the straight man during a silly scene

As a latter-day saint in south Australia in a remote community I count myself lucky, I don't have to be fanatical lds, I just try to be like christ and love the best I can. Had a older Hindu friend the gave me one of her blessings, I felt her faith and the spirit, many members didn't understand, I enjoy being in tune with christ and not man, that's probably why I've met him (outside my body). Keep the faith and love your neighbour.

@catherinecooper8370

2 жыл бұрын

While I'm sure your Hindu friend has good intentions. Be careful letting people of other faiths pray over you. They are usually nice people. But the spirits behind other faiths are not.

@shaantvis

2 жыл бұрын

@@catherinecooper8370 gross comment.

@seasn5553

2 жыл бұрын

@@catherinecooper8370 Bruh LMFAO

@kawakami789

2 жыл бұрын

@@catherinecooper8370 funny how you’re reenforcing the premise of the tv show. Fundamentalist religious practices brain wash the members. Thanks for proving that point.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

@@catherinecooper8370 That’s kind of mean! I thought we didn’t look down on other faiths

Even into the ‘90s in the Cincinnati area we said HF and called each other Brother/Sister in public.

What year was Lafferty excommunicated?

Couldn’t agree more, I watched it and I was like, hmmmm this is accurate lol

You all are sweet people. Love almost every LDS person I’ve met. And Ex LDS. Great book: “Greatest Show on Earth” by Richard Dawkins. I think you all have open hearts and kind souls. You can add more to that by helping the world more, by opening your minds to a new way of understanding why we’re here. Thank you for sharing. Was trying to learn about Mormonism today and learned quite a bit. Even watched the Joseph Smith Restoration movie 😊

The Lafferty‘s seem to go to extremes similar to the way Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow might. Personally I believe when your faith teaches you that you can be the next God, that can do something to certain people that want to take it too far.

@edu.santos

2 жыл бұрын

The thing is, it happens in any faith that involves mysticism, it happens even with Buddhists in Japan, leading to one of the most horrible terrorist attacks of the last century, hiindus, Muslims, although the religions generally teach peace, it's human nature itself, a boiling cauldron of different things that happen in society and in families, and just like with Buddhism, it may happen even less frequently among mormons, but it happens.

@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist

2 жыл бұрын

@@edu.santos Of all the bad things that could come from the different faiths, I believe we add potential for even more bad when the belief is that we ourselves can be the all-mighty. (Isaiah 43:10)

My Aunt dated Allan, my family was in the same stake as the Lafferty's. My dad always said there's something off about Ron..... I guess he was right.. There are numerous times here I thought there was a definite bias in the show. The book even more so..

Fantastic!

Heavenly Father was said more often in the church in the seventies and eighties.

As an Ex-Mormon I have dated a few people over the years who read this book. Do not underestimate the freak appeal the Momonism has for the public. The words Heavenly Father is what they said in Church ALL THE TIME! NOBODY -- and I mean NOBODY at church would ever say God. It was always HF. And Yes, people would go about quoting scripture. Everybody was Brother or Sister. You guys may think they are exagerating but they are not. This is how it was and it was normal

@brianmihlfeith7135

2 жыл бұрын

100%. I grew up in Utah, was a teenager in the 80"s....this is 100% accurate. You guys are too young to know about the Spencer W.Kimball years....it was a different time! I was a member until the early 2000's....mission, temple marriage, etc.

@toribern816

2 жыл бұрын

It definitely has freak appeal. 💯

@Kev_pencils

Жыл бұрын

Lol, we DON'T say Heavenly father ALL the time. That's ridiculous. And we say God as often as Heavenly Father. 28 years been member so far.-

@dianethulin1700

Жыл бұрын

@@Kev_pencils If you have only been a member for 28 years of course you have not had this experience. We were forbidden from saying God for sure. What you are saying proves how The Church changes things around so thanks for that!

@Kev_pencils

Жыл бұрын

@@dianethulin1700 Agree, things change, off course. But I'm third gen in my family as member of the Church and..not even my parents or grandparents would use this name as often. I guess this was something more common in Utah.

I grew up initially thinking Mormons were crazy. But as a non religious person who has since spent some time in Utah, I don’t see them as any better or worse than any of my catholic and Protestant friends. The fact is Charismatic sociopathic people can distort any religion and do great deals of harm… this show is a great watch and it has not distorted my view of the modern LDS church. 99% of the Mormons I have came across are wholesome, loving people who are weirdly good a business.

Thanks for reading D&C 121 David, its what came to mind also that I wish I could have said if I was in Brenda's shoes while I was watching

In the 80s this was in the news a lot. So the name Lafferty was very familiar. I thought they were not main stream LDS and even belong to a fundamentalist group. The actor who plays the Lafferty Father has played lots of weird Mormons. I think a tv show about the railroad. Also played in cool show about Charles Dickens. Christopher Heyerdahl. Strange guy😀

@bplionel2

2 жыл бұрын

I was working on Hell on Wheels as a Mormon with Chris. I was known around set as The Swede Jr. It was pretty fun.

I moved to Utah from Ireland in the 8os as a teenager and let me tell you that my experience was very bad and many converts were abused and bullied and women were treated dismissively and to be honest Mormons are still bizarre and there is an enormous difference in how you are treated in Utah and Canada where I live now. People who are immersed in the Utah culture think its a normal way to live. If you have not lived outside UtaH you have no comprehension or comparison of the outside world because you live in a bubble. Many people are just people trying to live the best life they can whether inside or outside of Utah.

@iloveutah5584

2 жыл бұрын

Everybody lives in a bubble. Even you.

@cornichonsgrrrl

2 жыл бұрын

I was raised in the church and I was bullied by the adults and their children. I was too smart and questioning. While my mother encouraged this, the church leadership and members made sure to put me in my place. I also has the misfortune of developing early and being punished by the bishop and members for this. I was a CHILD. This is not an abnormal experience for girls and boys who don't comply with their definition of a good LDS.

@vfxtutswithdan1893

2 жыл бұрын

@@cornichonsgrrrl this sounds horrible. How were you bullied?

@cornichonsgrrrl

2 жыл бұрын

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 I was called a whore by adults, because i developed early and their gross husbands stared at me. I was a child and was completely covered. Long sleeves and collar up to my neck. But, it shouldn't have mattered what I wore. The children of the more prominent families would say the worst things to me and humiliate me weekly. When the bishop was made aware, he did nothing. No matter what I wore at a church dance the bishop felt that because the boys looked at me it was appropriate to pull me aside and not allow me to participate in the fun circle dancing. I was doing nothing wrong or untoward. I was dancing the exact way the other kids were. It's just that my breasts were pornogrified by the men and the cultue. They still are to this day. I could have worn a full on nun's habit and it would have happened. This isn't unique to Mormanism. This is an unfortunate problem in all religions, especially the evangelical ones. Women, children and abuse survivors of all types are blamed for their abuse. They some how "tempted" predators and they are punished further, while the abusers are not blamed or prosecuted. There is a very high rate of child marriage in this country, often poor girls who become pregnant from rape are married off to their rapists. This is current in the US. It is often in evangelical traditions, I don't know of a case in the main stream LDS church. But bullying and othering girls for things out of their control is a tradition in religion. And the LDS church is not immune.

Did you read the book?

Rolling your eyes does not change truth.

I think the term brother and sister was more commonly used by members during that time period.

You guys also should really read Krakauer’s book. It would help you all out to get some context.

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

If a movie needs one to read the book to understand context, then it was poorly made in the first place.

@terrestrial_mormon

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 says you I guess

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

@@terrestrial_mormon And almost every proffessional movie reviewer I have ever seen.

@terrestrial_mormon

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 you need to get out more. So do you think most people who watched the Harry Potter series ever read the books 🤔🤔🤔. Seriously dude, open your mind

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

@@terrestrial_mormon I am being serious, and if the Washington Post is to be believed over half of the people of the people who watched Harry Potter had never read the books first, and 2/3s of the people who watched Lord of the Rings never read the books. Both series of films were designed to be intelligible to audiences without needing to have read the books first. In today's culture most people are more likely to read the book after first having seen the movie, with is why it is so important that each media provides needed context. I loved the 1980s version of Dune when I first saw it, having already read the book multiple times first. Most other audiences disagreed. So much was cut that too much context was missing for most. Take a film studies class, this is basic film appreciation 101 here.

Certain scenes were filmed in my Apartment building in Calgary Alberta Canada 🇨🇦

Love the brick wall set! No need to apologize.

I would've loved a deeper dive into more of the themes. Seemed like too simple of a conversation with interesting topics being brushed over, but other than that, great review!

@melissagarcia925

2 жыл бұрын

That’s how most members are because they don’t want to face the reality of the teachings that the church has. It all stems from the se false teachings that create these extreme groups and people

I thought it was a bit slow and I agree there are some weird aspects and "stretching" to fit a narrative. The Laffertys seem very similar to Tara Westover's family (author of the book "Educated") in how they justify their fundamentalist behavior.

I am not Mormon but it was very interesting. I have A LOT of questions and things I don't comprehend.

@SaintsUnscripted

Жыл бұрын

I'm so glad you're here and glad you enjoyed the episode. Please feel free to DM me on Instagram or Facebook and I'd be glad to answer any questions you have ☺

Teary eyed every scene Andrew Garfield talks to prisoner who suddenly goes into a stupid flashback to mormons in the 1800s everytime.

Every episode….chills.

Well you guys have certainly put your questions on the shelf. I would love to hear you have a conversation with John Lind from Mormon Stories or the dynamic duo from Zelph on the Shelf. You abhor fundamentalism while failing to acknowledge that it came directly from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. You also mention Jesus as your main spiritual influence when the Book of Mormon has almost nothing to do with Christianity. You just want to forget the history of your church and pretend that everything is totally different now which is hard to do since you still teach a lot of the same nonsense.

Wonder why you guys didn’t comment on the temple scene

The girl on the far left did a video on another channel saying that marriages will take place in the celestial kingdom. Guy on the right did a video saying marriage won’t take place after we die Which one is it?

@jonycruz2430

2 жыл бұрын

Here is the reference: kzread.info/dash/bejne/l6N_qcyBn6uenNo.html

I thought it reflected Mormon beliefs and culture like a fun house mirror: you can see where it's coming from, but it's a very distorted version of what it actually is

@rachelczumaya2806

2 жыл бұрын

^^^This

@pauletteforeman2194

2 жыл бұрын

It’s basically Mormon extremism. The average mainstream Mormon won’t quite understand.

@paulgregersen3570

2 жыл бұрын

It's an anti Mormon amplified exaggeration that loses the actual spirit of the reality that most church members live. See the real truth about the book of Abraham's translation that they hide from you. See "Book of Abraham part 15 " loaded 2 days ago. By me

@chevonbayless798

2 жыл бұрын

No

@paulgregersen3570

2 жыл бұрын

@@chevonbayless798 Don't confuse me with any facts, my minds already made up huh?

Interesting. You know which scripture quote you want to look up and can quickly find it on your phone. But, you are surprised that people in 1984 would have scriptures memorized - in an era when they couldn't rely on smart phones in their pockets to look up info. We no longer have to memorize things, like people's phone numbers, because we can just look for them on our phones. Even today, there are some 20 and 30 year-olds who talk about their parents drilling them on memorized scriptures when they were Primary age. I think I heard a 30-something LDS member say when he was in Seminary hisclass was challenged to memorize all of the Doctrines and Covenants. Anyone who did so would get a prize. And the teachers were shocked when he actually did so and had come up with a prize on the spot because they weren't expecting anyone to actually take up the challenge. Even some inidividual mainstream Protestants love to quote biblical scriptures. Even though it's not the norm.

According to IMDB, the story spirals into LDS fundamentalism. Was it based around the FLDS faith? Haven't watched the show and am not too familiar with the story

@terrestrial_mormon

2 жыл бұрын

Based on krakauer’s book by the same title. Definitely worth a read. Very compelling

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

No, the murders did join another off shoot after being excommunicated for LDS, and then were kicked out of that one as well. I believe at the time of the murders they had been excommunicated/told to leave by three different churches, which says something about their beliefs.

@andreamesser4580

2 жыл бұрын

I think the Laffertys were going back into early Church doctrine and getting lost. Early church doctrine resembled fundamentalists, and the 80s reflected a greater degree of fundamentalism than the church does now. You just gotta go back in time to understand where they were coming from and combine that with a big dose of insanity.

I think the producer guy mentioned that his disdain for the church, was the way his mother was treated. Does anyone know what happened to his mother and how she was treated?

The reason the church history clips are included are because in the book, John Krakauer was drawing lines between violent moments in the past to the Lafferty murders. I highly recommend reading the book to see how he did that. John did a ton of research here in Salt Lake at the church history museum and deep dive into church history when he wrote the book. He also wrote and published it right after 9/11 and religious extremism was a hot topic at the time. Also, one of the show writers grew up LDS and left the church so he's added in alot of those key components from his own experiences. My understanding of some of the very cringy churchy behavior overall is because they are trying to showcase alot in the span of 7 episodes so it's very compressed. When Pyre inevitably goes through his faith crisis, I very much imagine they will hit alot of the big questions and topics that many in the exmormon community have brought up as reasons why they left: issues with church history, issues with mysoginy and outdated views and roles of women, issues with certain covenants, etc. Overall I've really enjoyed it so far. I'm no longer an active member and being able to relate to his character going through a faith crisis has been really fascinating. I grew up in a household that took certain teaching very seriously (not quite to the extreme of the Lafferty's) but I had a really hard time growing up while internalizing some of those teachings that I didn't necessarily agree with. I went through and married in the temple even, but it wasn't until well into adulthood that I could finally figure out for myself whether or not that felt right to me.

@vfxtutswithdan1893

2 жыл бұрын

Except that much of the history in Krakauer's book, both recent and not, is demonstrably faulty or contradicted by other sources. He's definitely putting his own personal spin on it.

@JTAerialist

2 жыл бұрын

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 I would be curious to see what other sources you claim have debunked him that aren't church biased. Krakauer responded to criticisms in the second publishing of the book. He owned up to minor, small errors that were pretty insignificant but I thought his response to criticism of church history was spot on. I grew up LDS, married in the temple and everything. When I left the church I was amazed at how much I didn't know. I didn't read his book until years later and I feel like he gave a great outsiders perspective based on the facts he gathered.

I am interested in the show as a few years back one of my closest friends in the mainstream LDS church followed her husband (then the bishop) to practice the principle. I think because she had shared with me she then had to try convert me to the same. Portrayal out of ballance? This is based on a true crime where a woman and a child were murdered. The educational parts of church history thrown in are to show how the perpetrators were influenced by their beliefs and practices originating from the church. Speaking of Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde vibes, Joseph Smith knew exactly what he was talking about when he said that his name would be had for both good and evil amoung all people.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

That’s my take also. This is based on a book written about true events. The facts don’t change because people born decades later had a different experience. I wish the people who posted this video had done some more preparation besides just watching the movie

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

@@dianethulin1700 Just because something is based on 'true events' doesn't make something accurate. Movies 'the Exorcist' and 'Texas Chain Saw Massacre' were based on 'true events', but exaggerated to the point they ended bearing little resemblance. When the main character and his family are entirely fictional, it introduces doubt about the accuracy.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 This is not a hack movie like Texas Chainsaw Massacre but thanks for the good laugh! The book and movie are an accurate depiction of these murders and the Mormon lifestyle. I’m sure it makes some people uncomfortable; maybe you, but that doesn’t make this movie invalid. It’s not The Texas Chainsaw Massacre of movies either 🙄- brother!

@brettmajeske3525

2 жыл бұрын

@@dianethulin1700 Perhaps I didn't explain my point. To my understanding the book was fairly accurate as far as the details of the case, but large parts of the book was more about the authors thesis that religion leads to violence than journalistic integrity. It confuses connection with causation. If the direct comparisons between the MMM and the Lauferty's were as cut a dried as the book suggests, then one would expect a much higher murder rate among LDS then the national average. This case got so much attention specifically because it was so unusual. The fact that th4e series felt the need to invent a fictional character does not inspire trust in its continued accuracy.

@dianethulin1700

2 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 I think we always as Mormons can never forget that it was regular church members who were capable of these atrocities. A big part of it was not allowing for church members to speak up or act outside of the group I feel that I need to be honest and disclose that I am a part of the Haight family. I am personally grateful to Isaac and the great care he gave his sister and my 6X GGrandmother after her husband died guarding the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum. I know what a stalwart he was. I have no doubt he was following Brigham Young. I want to shout out to Mormons WAKE UP!!!! Open your eyes! Let’s learn the truth and stop being so afraid of criticism. And I love The Church! So good in many ways! But people need to think for themselves. This should start with ending the prophet worship. Follow Jesus and do better. Members, ask for MORE! Thank you so much for your discourse 🙏

What about the no French fries!?!?!? Like sheesh so extreme 😂

Can they depict/display temple ceremonies in that show? 😮

Andrew Garfield's character doesn't have a crisis of faith because of what the Lafferty brothers did. He has a crisis of faith because he learned about the dark history of the religion and realized how toxic it is.

@Kristy_not_Kristine

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like you've bought into the lies and false narratives.

@Alyssa_M513

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I think another factor was how the church leaders were trying to shut down and interfere in the investigation, just to save face.

@jenniferboht961

Ай бұрын

​@Kristy_not_kristine that false narrative is in your own history book

Oh man, not sure if the show is going to go through all the parts of the book, but dang is it good! So many stories, it’s not just about the Lafferty murders but starts there. It’s about FLDS and differentiates it from LDS church and history of both. Such a great book! John Krakauer knocks it out the park!

I read this book when it first came out, and found it fascinating (and very sad). I think Jon Krakauer is a brilliant writer. I read this after I had read Into thin Air and Into the Wild. I appreciate your input, but I hope you can appreciate that you have insights that non LDS do not. In these comments it seems that some of your faith, think he was quite accurate. Though outside structured dogma. Anyway, I am finding it compelling, but was discouraged that they left off on the third episode. I will be waiting to see the next series of installments. I would be very appreciative of your views on other religions that are often referred to as cults. What are your views on Jehovah's Witnesses, and Scientologists? Even Catholics have been called the biggest cult. Could you tell me how you feel about those religions? I am curious about people's spiritual journeys. Thank you!

@briannajonson7128

2 жыл бұрын

I second this.

I think these kids would understand this series much better if they read the book. The point of the book was to draw perils between following the teachings of religion and the dark places to which it can lead.

wow i love how on 13:16 you put the picture of orthodox Jesus with russian words i’m russian and was surprised to see it 🌸 thank you for your videos. after watching 3 episodes i felt confused about the church 😅 you always clear everything up, thanks

@sarahpilling2268

2 жыл бұрын

If you are confused you should read the book. The people in this video are clearly Mormon apologists who are towing the party line & giving the "proper" LDS response. The book carefully explains the murder case of Brenda & Erica Lafferty as well as the violent history of the LDS church. The book makes comparisons to other religions with violent histories, so it's not a big anti-lds conspiracy. But it explains how and why the murderers in this case would use LDS history and teachings to justify their actions. The book far from says all LDS are violent, past & present. In fact there is no mention of Joseph Smith as violent. It is the actions of believers of his "revelations". I highly recommend everyone read the book.

Non LDS here and just happened to stumble across this video bc I did watch the first two episodes and wanted to learn more about the crime (love true crime). You stated that you don’t think this show will do well if you aren’t interested or know about LDS. Not the case. Your faith is interesting and very much in the spot light bc of splinter groups ie Chad and Lori Vallow Daybell and FLDS. It has bred some very toxic people and groups. Let’s not forget Mark Hoffman. So you may claim it’s “reaching” but it is intriguing none the less.

@prettyinpain5

2 жыл бұрын

I was the age of the detectives' daughters and I was living just 30 min away from the crime when it took place and part of a very devout LDS family. This is the most accurate depiction of LDS life in the '80s that I have ever seen. The Pyre family was a lot like my family. Unfortunately, it takes leaving the religion (I left in my 30s) to really understand how much it infantilizes its members and teaches them to rely on feelings as facts. I really feel for Jeb Pyre because I went through a similar unspooling when I learned more about the unvarnished history of my church and how much they whitewash it and counsel members not to believe proven historical facts. Just one example would be how you will never meet a believing Mormon that thinks that they or their church is racist, yet the church is full of teachings that claim that native Americans will become lighter-skinned when they convert to the church. They changed the text in the BoM to downplay this, but if they have an older BoM, they can look it up themselves. Just another thing to put on their shelf. I know this show would have made me uncomfortable as a member and I would have tried to do the very thing the people in this video are doing because if this show is accurate, they would have to question their faith and that is a terrifying prospect to a faithful LDS. Cognitive dissonance is an ugly feeling and bad feelings = the Adversary (the devil), and that is where the thinking stops. Sadly, thought-stopping is a classic behavioral conditioning technique utilized by high-commitment organizations like cults. Kind of like a believing Mormon dismissing everything an exmormon says or creates simply because we no longer believe. We are now tools of the adversary to lead the faithful into apostasy and nothing we say can be trusted. It is just another way to prevent believers from coming in contact with information that might cause them to doubt.

@alkunz1110

2 жыл бұрын

@@prettyinpain5 - I'll second what Lily said and I have a background that is virtually the same.

@morningstoke

2 жыл бұрын

@@prettyinpain5 I'll third what Lily said. Aside from growing up in the 80s and being within close proximity of the murder, I can relate to all of this 110% with no deviation. This is exactly how it is.

Like,like,like like. My goodness young people.

I loved the book. How does this compare?

@cinnamondan4984

2 жыл бұрын

More dramatic

Yes, growing up in Utah in the '80s, heavenly Father was used much more frequently than it is today, and it was fairly rare to ever hear the word God. I wonder if the change has something to do with the church's public marketing efforts in the '90s and '00s to align us more with Christianity.

I'm only in my early 30s, but in '90s Orem & Provo everyone I knew definitely used "Heavenly Father" all the time, much more than "God," which was sparingly. Also, at least where I was in Orem, people would quote scripture in conversation, even if it was at a sports game. I don't know what the BYU hangup is, though. Women attending BYU? Sure. You can want women to attend BYU & still be misogynistic: and I saw that, too. @21:27 Honestly? For non-Mormons, it may be fairly clear this is an extremist sect direction. But that "shared history way back when"? That, right there, is a distancing mechanism that is pretty revealing. It proves how for a lot of modern Mormons, their history is scary. Maybe too scary. Like, a different e.g. is taking truck with the show's mention of the Nephi & Laban story: it's always bothered me that so many Mormons seem to think their faith is unable to be weaponized. As if it's impossible to be inspired by the gospel to do something evil. To which, the entire violent history of Christianity says "hold my sword." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also. "Slow burn" for a crime series seeming odd makes me think none of these 3 audience members are aware of a certain show in the last 10 yrs called "True Detective." It forever changed crime TV, whether true crime or fiction.

Can you guys talk about Blood Atonement?

@SaintsUnscripted

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqOBp7Sln8m1k7A.html

Hulu is not a popular streaming service from where i am from, i do not know one person who watches it... so, yeah. I doubt this will be an issue in my parts.

That shower scene was beautiful. And you mentioned that before the horrible killings. Wtf is wrong with you Mormons?

Wasn't this written by an ex-church member who is anti LDS church? Isn't the show based on a book by an ex-church member that is anti LDS as well? If so, then that should tell you about it's motives.

@jasonfletcher

2 жыл бұрын

No

@danielstark8356

2 жыл бұрын

He wasn't an ex member, but he was an edgy athiest who thought all religon was bad

@andreamesser4580

2 жыл бұрын

Welp… there it is…. The us versus them mentality….

@danielstark8356

2 жыл бұрын

@@andreamesser4580 the author's intent on the book was to show that deep down Mormonism is a religon that 'breeds dangerous men' (literally a quote) UTBOH made the assertion that Mormons (and other people who take their religon seriously) are the dangerous 'them'. According to UTBOH any one of us could crack at any moment, no matter how nice we may be now

@fishmrinc

2 жыл бұрын

Anti Mormon is a weird phrase tbh.

You make it sound like we never say, "Father in Heaven" or "Father". WE DO.

@j4r3d29

2 жыл бұрын

These guys are dim

It was like that in the 70s snd 80s

Great reaction. Loved to see your overall take. As a non Mormon I think it was obvious that every Mormon is not crazy like the Laffertys. There’s a reason they are in prison. I do however have a ton of questions..small and big ranging from why it isn’t ok for the officer to eat French fries but he’s constantly seen with a gun? I mean officers in my opinion should have guns but I would think guns are a lot more “evil” then French fries. I didn’t word that the best but I hope you understand what I’m trying to say. I don’t understand why some things are ok but then small things like hot liquid isn’t ok? Or did a prophet come after and undo what was said before? A bigger question is that even in the show and my personal dealings with Mormons there seems to be this “progressive” understanding that “yes we know what some prophets said back in the old days but we don’t really follow that teaching anymore” certain things pertaining marriage, race, etc. my biggest question is why would God tell a prophet something only 100-200 years ago to write something that he knew wouldn’t be the way his church would follow it in 1980 or 2022? In the show it seems like Brenda’s dad was like “yeah I know the book says this but c’mon this is modern times” not word for word but that was the gist that I got.. I’m also still confused on Joseph’s wife…did she or did she not agree with him at the end? Do Mormons really teach you will have many wives after you die? Also what do modern women believe about that? If women today wouldn’t like that idea why would they like it in the afterlife? Sorry I’m all over the place. I live in SC and I don’t know many Mormons that I can ask these questions to❤️🙏🏽

@kennethmoake1448

Жыл бұрын

I can answer from my perspective, being a lifelong member but not having seen the show. Maybe I'm missing something regarding the French fries, for example. I think a lot of your questions have to do with revelation from prophets and how teachings/instructions/policies change over time. There are very important distinctions to be made when talking about how prophets function. They are indeed inspired and have authority like Moses. But that doesn't mean God gives them every detail of how to preside over the Church (God didn't do that for Moses either). They have to rely on the best they have, including all the direction given to them before, all the while seeking for God's instruction. But at times the revelation is very clear and God makes His will known in a very straightforward manner when it is right that He does so. This is at least partly because He wants growth in us, as our Father, and not just obedience. These are opportunities for growth and independence. Prophets give doctrine, they give commandments and instruction, and they also give policy. Doctrine doesn't change, although our understanding of it does expand over time (Isaiah 29). So God may give part of the picture at one time, with subsequent pieces later. He may also change our level of obligation to certain commandments over time. Like how Jesus said that Moses allowed for divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of the people, which Jesus later condemned. The Word of Wisdom, or the Lord's law of health, was originally optional but became a commandment at a later date. What gets difficult is when the Lord gives us part of the picture, and then people speculate, or even think they understand the picture more than they do. This has led to error among both leaders and regular members. And cultural factors have been problems throughout all time. Think of the idolatry of the Israelites' time that so often led them astray, their desire for kings, and the Greek, etc. Influences of the New Testament that had the Apostles constantly busy, trying to keep the truth in and the cultural influences out, where they conflicted. But the point is that, over thousands of years, the Lord has not yet revealed to His people all the answers outright or corrected all their incorrect thinking overnight. He tends to allow things to change gradually, with such things as bias, slavery, sense of superiority, and so forth. And policies change based on the present needs of the Church and the world. What might be appropriate at one time may need to be adjusted or even reversed at a later date. So doctrine on polygamy has never changed. That is that monogamy is always the rule but when and only when God commands an exception, polygamy may be enacted. It is helpful to remember that polygamy was approved of by God in certain, but not all, circumstances in the Old Testament. Multiple wives after this life is something we don't know much about, but the math alone makes it apparent that where it does exist in some capacity, it could only be the exception, not the rule. And covenants, which include marriage, can never be made or perpetuated if the people involved do not voluntarily enter into them. That would be impossible, being contrary to the nature of a covenant. I would also caution you to be careful of parodies or approximations of what Latter-day Saints actually do believe. These get a lot of screen time, but the truth takes effort to understand. Like if you want to know what is up with the Word of Wisdom, what the problem is with "hot drinks," and what is meant by that phrase, then I suggest studying up on it yourself, from the actual sources. It takes more work, but there's just no replacement for it. www.churchofjesuschrist.org

I think it’s brilliantly done to illustrate issues in the church. The “exaggeration” and repetition is done to emphasize key elements in the church and the psychological tactics utilized by priesthood leaders. It’s super clear…cut and dry. It’s completely fair to take the history and apply it to parallels today. This church was built on a faulty foundation and by their fruits ye shall know them…people should be aware of all truth(inside and outside the church). If it’s the true and everlasting gospel and all that it claims to be, it should be able to withstand criticism and investigation. It’s uncomfortable to watch because you may be experiencing cognitive dissonance. The main issue with the church and religion at large is the divisive nature that sometimes ends in violent and manipulative acts. There is a patriarchal mindset that breeds dangerous circumstances. I’ve experienced personal experiences that are accurate to this representation having worked for the church. In the 3rd episode, there is mention of the wheat and the tares. Anytime we are separated, we are not “at one” with each other. The atonement should be central to healing the planet. Mormonism clearly isn’t at one with the rest of the human race because their narrow boxes don’t actually fit any of us…it’s obsolete. It’s not uniting God’s people and gathering Zion. They are trying to build something different that separates from the rest of the world and puts people in roles and boxes and stifles/limits the natural way…a system misconstruing guidance with control and manipulation and then somehow claiming to be under the banner of God while doing it. God accesses us through our own internal wifi connected to source. We don’t need the priesthood. The universe and all the wisdom is within us. Ask and ye shall receive!

@timotato4662

2 жыл бұрын

It very much gives me if Joseph smith was here today and you couldn’t use hundreds of years ago as an excuse how would the things he said make you feel vibes, with some true crime. I wish the main characters lines weren’t so corny. It would get the message across better if he weren’t so corny.

@edu.santos

2 жыл бұрын

The thing is , I believe that theses fails because it is not only relegated to "patriarchy" or religion, they come from human nature, society, nurture, etc. and they are not worse in LDS families or in the Utah Region, even more, being from latin america and having lived in both the middle east and europe,I think that system is much better than what's become the norm in other places. Of course, it's far from perfect. Be it religion or secularism, whatever ideology an philosophical ideas, manipulative people will be there making things worse for everybody else. I had generally good expeirences with teh Church, so I think they're doing better, but of course, whoever had bad experiences with the church, leadership, will have a negative opinion.

@allibrinkerhoff2212

2 жыл бұрын

@@edu.santos yes, naturally it’s all subjective. Some people will have good experiences and others will not, but experiences aside-the truth claims that the church makes are just simply not accurate and the misleading “truths” lead people to believe and behave in ways that are psychologically harmful to themselves and others. The nature of the beast is that religion will continue on as long as there are men around who claim to be God’s mouthpiece. Much like any system, it will continue to perpetuate itself and run itself by the people who are actually victims of it. This million dollar machine is run by the faithful devoted members and like any business, they’ll do whatever they can to keep the numbers high. I’m grateful for this show and the representation it brings. I really hope Mormons and others devoted to their faith can take a moment to really evaluate the core of their beliefs and consider the opportunity cost of their investment in the church. God and the church are not the same…of course the church would want you to think that’s the case, but the church is run by men. I simply choose to use my own wifi to connect to the source instead of getting inconsistent messages and “revelation” from men who claim to be the only ones connected to God. Truth is truth and God giveth to all men LIBERALLY…not conservatively and narrowly

@vfxtutswithdan1893

2 жыл бұрын

Most of that is just like, your opinion, man.

@allibrinkerhoff2212

2 жыл бұрын

@@vfxtutswithdan1893 what do you call an opinion backed with evidence and facts?

I wonder if we are related, Snell isn’t a common name I’ve come to find and my name is Jonathon Snell. Most of the Snell family lives in Kansas and Texas, would be curious if we actually where related lol

I am curious about your thoughts on the shows creator, Oscar winner Dustin Lance Black. He has done a brilliant job with this show, and brings a unique perspective having grown up in the Mormon church, and was excommunicated when he came out as gay. Many people working on this series are a mix of ex Mormons and active Mormons. Dustin has worked so hard within the Mormon community to advocate for gay youth and is started to be more respected within the Mormon community.