When peering at a seer stone in a hat I saw John and the 3 Nephites. They gave me the authority. Now the first presidency has to do what I say. It is really that ridiculous.

One very "Good" reason why there should be prophets today is to help guide Christs church (while he is away). Otherwise there would be 100s of sects and be confused (which actually that happened, and why we had the apostasy!) That is why there needed to be a "restoration" In all things" (acts). Also a good scriptures says "God will do nothing, save through his prophets". This would make the most sense, especially before Christ 2nd coming (which is perhaps getting close).

Self refuted structure? The New Testament apostles were preaching in a time where this was not necessary. So you are right. But assumptive to read that contextually and have it hold today as you are want to do in Hebrews as stated. Additional prophets were not needed right after the Messiah came and fulfilled prophesy in so doing. But they are necessary today. It’s folly to take the self refuting path. Would you presume the leaders to not notice your points as a novice? As if they got greedy and just wanted to keep adding apostles? What is your premise for why this would be the case? Look again at the difference between the word “disciple” and “apostle.” Christ said, essentially, “all men will know you as my disciple if ye have love one for another.” His apostles were called and given a specific charge by Him. Duties to perform in governing the Church. Peter, James and John were given the “keys” to initiate calling other apostles. Who ever taught you that you must have 12 apostles? The reason for the distinction of the First Presidency is because the Senior apostle becomes the Prophet and has two others to constitute a voting body, essentially. This voting body is separated from the Quorum of the 12. But all they do is only done once they have 100% agreement. They do not over rule each other or have a majority rule. All things are done in wisdom and order. In the mouth of two or three witnesses this is established. So there is no way the Prophet could go rogue. It is not a dictatorship. Only more evidence of how the Lord set it up where multiple people can receive the same revelation from Him and be unified. I believe it’s important for you to understand the Church better. Particularly if you are to condemn to the point of telling an entire group of people they are under condemnation. Rather than giving into my tendency in trying to rebut using verses within the Bible, which I find necessary to do often so that it is understood that we derive all meaning to be in accordance with what Christ in His ministry…. I want to point out that there is a real tangible set of blessings that the Lord continues to bless the members with each day. It’s not just their belief. It’s proven. How is it proven? By the results of their efforts. You may be inclined to incite those New Testament verses that speak of works to refute it, but it’s by the efforts, the results, yes even the works, of their ministry and the ministry of each member. Over $900 million was donated to Humanitarian Aid last year. This is not going back into the Church it’s helping multiple causes including $32 million to the World Food Programme. Money is nothing compared to God’s work. But in this world, think about what that can mean for so many people! For so many families! Could this be considered “fruits” as we learn to judge prophets by their fruits? As Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount.. “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” The fruits put forward by this Church are a blessing to many. Yet the Church is criticized for having lots of money and not doing enough with it. Are members to say: “Well, my works don’t benefit me in terms of my salvation. So I won’t donate. I won’t volunteer. Lest anyone think I am boasting and trying to earn my salvation by doing good…”…. ? No! We do it. Not to be saved but because Christ showed us the way. He went about doing good. And we find joy in doing the same. We believe in Christ. We believe the Father has effectively said, “Live like my Son…” We believe they have a Divine relationship. And that’s something we can have with them - a relationship of love. Christ was obedient to His Father. We can be obedient to His commandments. Still we are criticized for this Humanization of the Godhead. (Even considering we are human because of them. And that we are not worthless without Christ because of our sinful nature but that we can overcome our sinful nature with the Grace He has showed us in giving us our ability to return to Him.) There are millions of members from all walks of life all across the world that believe this and follow it. These are not people holed up in Utah on a ranch surrounded by sagebrush. It’s global. It’s a global group of over 16 million people. The majority of which is outside the United States. Growing rapidly in Africa, the Philippines, and South America, all different ethnicities. Yet we are considered racist. Please know that the Christianity you follow is the equivalent of everyone getting an “A” just for showing up. Supported by a Bible translation that has removed “Begotten” from John 3:16. Think of the consequences of that! It’s akin to Medical Schools giving out an A for showing up, giving doctors degrees and then expecting them to be ready to help others. It’s damaging. The rigor you ascribe is not of Joseph Smith. You credit him too much to think him capable of even knowing how to contrive it and have it represent anything that even makes sense or is of value. And yet it is of value. Not only that it’s of God. This is why it has grown to the size it is now and continues to grow and fill the earth as prophesied. I pray that you will read from the Book of Mormon. That you will learn why it is what it is and promise you additional knowledge about the Savior that is safe and can be trusted.

You got this all wrong in your video. 1 Nephi explains that the 12 Apostles in Jerusalem will be the judges of the tribes of Israel and each tribe of Israel will have 12 Disciples that will judge their people. So when Christ comes to America in 3 Nephi He calls the 12 Disciples to be the judges of the seed of Lehi which is the tribe of Manasseh. Then Christ tells the Nephites he has other sheep to visit and basically do the same thing. So that would be 12 Apostles and 144 Disciples (12 for each tribe). Now the Book of Mormon never calls them Apostles, but it is understood that the disciples Christ calls in America are a lower level Apostles that He calls Disciples. The LDS Church is a restoration of the original so the 12 Apostles in the LDS Church will be the new judges over the 12 tribes of Israel and this is why the Church talks so much about the gathering of the 12 tribes of Israel. The three at the top in the presidency would just be declared as modern revelation that super seeds anything (Bible or Book of Mormon).

@BeardedDisciple

Жыл бұрын

This only shows that the BOM disagrees with the Bible then because the Bible is very clear there is only 12 disciples and that all the disciples are apostles and that including those apostles that are disciples you also have Barnabas who is called an Apostle and Paul. Making at least 14 apostles. You say the LDS church is restoring the original 12. How is it doing so if John, one of those original is still on earth. You can't restore someones position that they never left. You have 12 apostles. + John, that's 13 not 12.

@stevenhenderson9005

Жыл бұрын

@@BeardedDisciple All Apostles are Disciples, but not all Disciples are Apostles. So in Jerusalem Christ calls his 12 Apostles/Disciples and in the Book of Mormon Christ is calling 12 Disciples for each tribe of Israel and they have similar rolls as an apostle, but still a lower level and are specifically calling Disciples only and not Apostles. When one of the Apostles dies they are replaced with a new one. However since all the Apostles were killed and all the Disciples were killed then it created the great apostasy. Meaning there are no more Apostles or Disciples. Reserected beings or those that can not taste death do not hold a position in the church and are no longer recognized in their original positions. The way the church is structured is with 12 Apostles that replace the original 12 that were called to those positions in ancient days and 3 members of the presidency that replaces the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). The LDS Church teaching is that they are the Kingdom of God on Earth and is a governing body that replicates the governing body in heaven. If the goal is to find the truth then the best thing to do is listen to Plato and his explanation of "TRUTH". Anything that can change or does change cannot be eternally true. What was once understood to be true is no longer true then it was really just a temporary truth or subjective truth based on our knowledge and understanding at the time. Which new knowledge and understanding can lead us to that absolute divine truth, but the journey to get there is filled with non-truths and partial truths. If the LDS Church Changes then according to Plato's explanation it can not be eternally true and can only be lead to truth. Why are so many people leaving the LDS Church? Because they are being lead to the truth.

The Bible is limited in scope concerning the structure of Christ's church; most of the knowledge of how the church was and is to be organized is from modern revelations. Yes there can be more than 12 apostles. But in the acting "Quorum of 12 apostles" there is only 12 at any given time.

@BeardedDisciple

Жыл бұрын

So would you say that structure is something that proves the true church?

@poling6666665

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't "prove", no. The structure is what it is. We can only speculate on to the whys of it all.

@BeardedDisciple

Жыл бұрын

@@poling6666665 I am circling back to this after a time. . . So why aren't John and the three Nephites active?

@poling6666665

Жыл бұрын

@@BeardedDisciple Their calling now is helping to prepare the earth for the Lord's second coming (not serving in Church leadership). Ppl from all walks of life/ religions are involved in preparing for the big event; it's not exclusively lds only. To speculate are they doing like missionary work; perhaps but I would like to guess they are working with in the workings of different religions also.

@nute742

5 ай бұрын

@@BeardedDisciple They are "translated" beings and their works are more hidden. However It was said they went to the "lost 10 tribes" of Israel and are with them.

Hey Noah! Long time Noah see. Haha. Just thought your diagram was interesting. First off, you kept saying disciples throughout when I think you were meaning to say apostles. Apostles are disciples, but disciples aren't apostles. The reason why Jesus in the new world Book of Mormon called the twelve to be disciples (not apostles) because there were already Apostles chosen for in Jesrusalem at that time. Apostles were representatives of Jesus Christ for the world not just for the area they lived in so that is basically the main difference. Also because of their delegation they have apostolic keys that were given. Every Apostle has every key available on Earth and we believe those keys dont just go away when you die. That's why Peter James and John were able to pass them by laying on of hands to Joesph . So as you can see your model of 19 apostles turns to be a model of several thousands of apostles if you are looking it from Gods perspective. So number is not a factor rather number serve mostly as a symbol. Power to bind that which is on earth to heaven and what is in heaven to Earth. Nowhere in the Bible did Christ say you have to have only 12 apostles, that is just how Jesus did it he most likely used 12 to represent the tribes of Israel and the start of their reunion. Moses had several delegates (Judges) Elijah had 1 Elisha for the most part. So there really wasnt a direct standard throughout all history of how many apostles are necessary to constitute a Church or prophet ship and when Christ told Joseph to have 15 apostles constitute his Church in the Latter days theres a reason for that. It wasn't that Joseph just miscounted it, it was that that is how it was supposed to be organized in similitude to the primitive Church. The Prophet would have the right to exercise all keys. Now an extra two councilors is very wise of a God that also has two councilors just saying. You just have to see the symbolism rather than just point out the differences.

@jacobsamuelson3181

Жыл бұрын

Also just an interesting note. If God so chose to have more than 15 apostles at a given time for whatever reason. It still would probably be in increments of 12 purely out of symbolism. So Let's say John and the three Nephites came to help us out in the last days, still having apostolic keys the Church would restructure itself so that there would be 2 quorums of the twelve apostles. The senior apostle would act as president of the quorums similar to how we have it set up in the the seventies. There are currently 2 quorums of the seventy with presidents. There are not exactly 70 in every quorum but there is a capacity for 70 and that is just a title we will use. So this is just another note that number is not the important factor, its symbolism and divine structure within the church. I hope that clarifies a bit as well.

@Spawn303

Жыл бұрын

It’s always a “clerical error” or wrong word 😂