Canadian Golf Hall of Fame‎: ‎1995 He won back-to-back Canadian Amateur Championships in 1955 and 1956. Professional wins‎: ‎55 missed the fairway into first cut 1 time in a 7year stretch 22 course records 17 hole in ones.

Good vid Wayne but it did take me back a bit at approx 9:42 min in when you said “Moe couldn’t really take what He had out and develop a great resume as a player” Here are some stats below I would say on the contrary make up a pretty exceptional resume! Moe Norman was a Canadian legend and a man revered by golf professionals all over the world as one of the greatest ball-strikers in the history of golf, and certainly one of the most eccentric and colorful characters in the annals of sport. Moe Norman’s single-plane golf swing was called weird, unorthodox, different, but it was highly efficient, amazingly exact, and freakishly accurate. The numbers tell the tale: *17 holes in one *Three scores of 59 *Four scores of 61 *More than 30-course records during his career! Moe Norman dominated Canadian golf through the mid 20th century. Among his many victories are two Canadian Amateurs, two CPGA Championships, and five CPGA Senior Championships along with multiple victories in the Ontario, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan Opens. “Only two players have ever truly owned their swings - Moe Norman and Ben Hogan. I want to own mine.” - Tiger Woods International: * 1954 America’s Cup Canadian Team Member National: * 1955 Canadian Amateur Champion * 1956 Canadian Amateur Champion * 1957 Runner-Up Low Canadian in the Canadian Open Professional: * 1964 CPGA Millar Trophy Champion * 1965 Runner-Up Canadian Professional Golfers Championship * 1966 Canadian Professional Golfers Champion * 1974 Professional Golfers Champion * 1980 - 1985 & 1987 Canadian Professional Golfers Association Seniors Championship Provincial: * 1958 Ontario Open Champion * 1963 Saskatchewan Open Champion * 1963 Ontario Open Champion * 1965 Manitoba Open Champion * 1966 Alberta Open Champion * 1966 Manitoba Open Champion * 1967 Manitoba Open Champion * 1968 Saskatchewan Open Champion * 1971 Alberta Open Champion

@amarug

2 жыл бұрын

I think what he meant to say is something in the lines of "with the almost unbelievable ball-striking skill that he had, many probably expected him to go down in history into the hall of fame of "top winners of international events" (i.e. majors etc), which he, despite the really good resume that you posted, unfortunately didn't.

@baldylox

Жыл бұрын

@@amarug that's because America wasn't ready for him.. he should do some research on him before saying dumb shit

One of the saddest stories of how we in American golf with all their PGA so called humility treated this man for his quirks makes for a great story of what love and encourage as well as negativity can do to hurt or heal.Let this be a lesson to us all.

@Thegooob95

2 жыл бұрын

@UCq7P8xivxCIySI3_y73zang fuck off ey?

I've tried it copied it and staying with it. Wished I'd known about Moe Norman years ago. After trying so many different techniques, this is by far the easiest to become more consistent with and a better ball striker. Well for me it is anyway

@enkilugal3282

6 ай бұрын

I started swinging like Moe 2.5 years ago and love it. Wish I had known about Moe 30 years ago though 🙂

Todd mentioned in one of his many video's that there are many jigsaw puzzles to Moe's swing When I first tried Moe's swing out I got mixed results and ended up going back to my old swing! Then one night I sat down at my laptop and watched Moe hitting ball after ball as he spoke to an interviewer, then Moe threw a coin down and explained to the interviewer that he takes the club back towards that coin (stretch) That is when the coin dropped in my head as I was lifting the club a bit early on my back swing, another part of the puzzle is that Moe does not let his right elbow come away from his torso much so he can swing through the ball with his body and not just his hands and arms! I hope these tips help you guy's in getting your swing back on plane! RIP Moe -The world misses you!!!!

@shofey

Жыл бұрын

Nope. One swing Left arm swing. body mostly follows.

@golf4ubacknine768

Жыл бұрын

Great analysis

I would suggest that you check out Canadian golf tour... and see what kind of "resume" Moe Norman had. He shot 59 three times. Won 55 canadian tour events. Had 33 course records, and 17 holes in one. Sam Snead said he was the world's greatest striker of the ball.

@jacobalvord3480

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing about that comment. Not the same level of competition as the PGA, but not slouches either.

I think your swing analysis is very good. I've been a P.G.A. Member for 28 years and support what you have done. Moe proved that there is more than one way to get it done.

@shofey

Жыл бұрын

Yep Push or Pull. Moe was a Puller.

He was a great player won over 80 Tournaments shot 59 three times had 17 holes in one so I think there is something very good about this mans golf swing

@usmcforever7630

Жыл бұрын

Tell me what he did in 27 PGA tournaments playing against some of the best. Or what he did in two appearances at the Masters against the best. Very accurate shotmaker, no lenght and fair to poor putter. Great in the Canadian Tour.

@jacobalvord3480

Жыл бұрын

@@usmcforever7630 he played in only 27 PGA events over the course of 1.5 years and made 25 cuts. Played in 5 PGA champions tour events in the 80s making the cut in all 5 and three top 10 finishes. Withdrew from the 56 Masters due to blisters on his hands. Missed the cut by 1 stroke in 57 and never played on the PGA again. This was all very early in his pro career. No doubt in my mind he would have been a winner on the PGA tour if he had the temperament and/or if people were more willing to tolerate his antics.

I think what Moe meant was that he kept his club face square to the target line longer than anybody else. It's impossible to swing the club "down" the target line. The circle of the swing will "touch" the target line at impact and come back to the inside due to the angle of attack. Moe's set up and swing allowed him to keep that club head square to his target at the bottom of his swing...

I found that having my club straight up and down and right knee facing the target that it really straightens out my swing. However I can never be as good as Moe. He was the man.

Regardless of swing speed, launch angle, club face,/swing path, etc, I guess the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what's happening before, or after contact. It's whether you're getting the ball to it's intended target. If that is repeatable, like Moe Norman's swing, then you can't really dispute the method, or results. I appreciate Wayne's analysis.

According to Moe's own comments during this clinic, he was implementing his understanding of the teaching of Manuel de la Torre (and Ernest Jones) and was consciously NOT trying to extend and slide on the downswing but rather to swing in a circular arc more than he had done previously. Of course, he was 72 here, but still pretty flexible, as you can see if you watch the entire clinic.

Thank you! This is a great illustration of “feel vs. real”.

Everyone knows that Moe was a savant when it came to golf and probably his life in general. Remember the key term was the "feeling" of greatness. He even said it many times. He never looked at video of his swing. He just walked straight down the fairway to go to his next shot. Don't we all wish we could do that!

@br33zy771

8 жыл бұрын

+Andy Boyarsky yes, but he practiced by hitting thousands and thousands of balls.

Hi Wayne! Thanks for an interesting analysis. Still, it’s wrong to call anything about this swing conventional. The mere fact that he eliminates many of the possible sources of error through the single-plane technique and is able to return to square better and more consistently than anyone speaks volumes. His set-up is miles from the two-plane set-up. His rotation with a bent left knee from the downswing and through the ball is far from conventional. It would be really cool to see if his flat-spot is longer than most, but it is definitely more consistent thanks to his unique technique. It would be extremely interesting to have you analyze his disciple Todd Graves, who I find to be an excellent teacher and communicator.

Last season I started to work on my "Moe" swing with terrific results. Today was the first day at the range this season...back working on the Moe swing. It's amazing how straight and long I can hit it when I get it right. I wish I had the time to hit 1,000 balls a day to get it grooved in as Moe said he did. Thanks for your great analysis of Moe's swing. VERY helpful! Keep up the great work. - Sam

Truly enjoyed watching it. :)

Bryson Dechambeau, 5 PGA victories, with one this year in 2019, and 3rd in Fedex points. Definitely brings credibility to Moe's swing theory!

@kort1344

3 жыл бұрын

Not according to the expert Wayne.

@zero2herogolf

3 жыл бұрын

@@kort1344 Well we know the truth now don't we. The longest hitter on Tour and 2020 U.S. Open Champion blows that out of the water!!

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

Only 24 handicapper will think Moe and Bryson had the same swing kzread.info/dash/bejne/iX-AqslvgKiol7w.html

@enkilugal3282

6 ай бұрын

Bryson is in a league of his own creation. Good on him and good on Moe for they did what they had to do to play this great game called Golf.

Even though Moe's feet are aimed off to the right, it does look as though his club face (at address) is aiming down the same line that the ball travels on when he hits his shot. This would suggest that he is not actually pulling the shot; the ball is still traveling in the direction that the club face is pointing at address.

Wayne got to remember sometimes you see Moe doing the Natural Golf Swing as he worked for them for a few years doing outings.......Some times Moe is talking about that swing even when he is doing his more "Moe" swing....such as when he is turning to hit the ball he is telling you he is swing in a pendulum motion....

I use Moe’s technique to fly trees on left dog legs... by coming over the top moreso of my natural swing. Moe was the Master of pulling his shots that created less energy... thus saving energy. He could’ve pounded a 60 compression ball and wore a majority of opponents out back then, which he did.

@alg7096

4 жыл бұрын

Just FYI his swing speed at 65 was 107mph. That's insane speed for someone his age, height, and backswing length. Plus it wasnt as much of a pull as it looked on video since he started with the club off the ball so his shoulders had already turned to accommodate that.

@jacobalvord3480

Жыл бұрын

​@@alg7096 the rare footage of him in his prime is unreal. He's obliterating the ball.

Excellent analysis - what we think is happening is sometimes quite different to what is actually going on!

The human body is complex. It seems to me that the lower body is a foundation but the direction of the ball, if hit square on the face is more determined by the shoulder line than the toe line. I love this detailed analysis. Maybe there is a benefit to single plane. There is also a benefit to 800 balls a day no matter what swing you are blessed with! Thanks for your great and timeless analysis of Moe’s magic moves. Moe’s mindfulness of the clubface staying square to the target line for an impossibly long distance is maybe more important than whether he really knew it was impossible! Thanks The earth is not flat but we build houses square and level by making the false assumption the earth is flat.

@jonathangorman978

Жыл бұрын

Just love the comment. I've studied Moe and other golfers both from a swing and bio perspective. Trevino was nearly the middle-ground in both ways from the classic/Moe swing and insider/outsider of what a pro "should look like". Your comment articulates what I personally believe are misinterpretations or misunderstandings of Moe across the board.

Moe's single plane swing is or looks similar to the robotic arm used to test golf equipment.. it too, I believe is a single plane

Always great to meet an instructor who can squeeze a couple minutes of information into a half hour (this is what happens when people get paid by the hour). Moe had lots of success, actually, and it wasn't his ball striking that kept him from being a well-followed phenomenon. Your "analysis" has one fatal flaw: we will never know if the "front view" is exactly 90 degrees to the target line (and it sure doesn't look like it to me). Without precise angles, we can't properly assess ball position.

I love this video. I keep coming to it after years of studying Moe's swing. Thanks for sharing Mr. DeFrancesco

To anyone who says "you lose distance with Moe's swing", I've got two words for you:- Bryson Dechambeau.

@williamtaylor5193

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting, isn't it? Truth be told, for most mortal golfers, Moe's arm/shaft alignment at address is very restrictive, and will limit not only the length of the backswing, but the amount of wrist cock as well, which hurts distance, but if you're as flexible and strong as Bryson, the limitations don't apply.

@jamesonhahn953

3 жыл бұрын

Any swing goes further on steroids

@runfargetlost991

3 жыл бұрын

@3RD Werks not it is not . Its faily similar

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

Bryson’s swing is totally different than Moe’s kzread.info/dash/bejne/iX-AqslvgKiol7w.html

@hairyjohnson2597

3 жыл бұрын

I'm an amateur golfer, to be 100% honest. I've only been golfing a half a year. I'm terrible, but I had a bad problem slicing teeing off. I started using Moe's swing, or my best representation of it. On a could swing, I get 300+.

Moe did hit the ball better than anybody. Even Trevino said this about Moe.

I am the victim of lymphoma, which has spread to my left arm now. I used to play to a six handicap but left golf (too slow) for senior tournament tennis. Recently I visited a friend's driving range and while there tried to hit a few balls even with the weak left arm. It was a disaster, few air born, lots of shanks. I was sick. A week later I tried it Moe's way, which I had seen at the Alberta Open years ago. With two straight arms at address, and without any change in my major body motions, I hit 17 of 20 balls within two posts about 20 feet apart over 175 yards away with a five iron. I am sold.

@robertlaporte2998

4 жыл бұрын

Moe is your guardian angel!

This is the most watched Moe Norman video on KZread, and rightly so as it gives the complete picture of Moe's amazing technique. A lot of people have tried to analyze Moe's swing in order to teach or learn from this amazingly talented golfer. The certain truths I have noticed are: 1- Moe swing generates a slight pull, NOT pull hook. 2- Moe was a lefty, but played right handed golf. This is a tremendous advantage - like Phil Mickleson. It's a big advantage when the lead hand is the stronger, dominant hand. Hence right handers need to develop strength in left hand, arm. 3- Moe's right elbow at the top of the back swing and first half of the downswing is never tucked underneath but folded to the side. This is very very important. If the elbow gets too far inside, this will cause weak push, push slice shots, as Moe did not clear his left side as required in the conventional multiplain swing. 4- Another key thing is, it's virtually impossible to swing like Moe with a conventional grip where the Vs formed by index finger and thumb of both hands point to the right ear or right shoulder. In Moe's case the V of the right hand points to the right shoulder, and V of the left hand to the left shoulder.

@FredCDobbs-er4qd

7 жыл бұрын

Great comment. Thanx.

@messylife4912

3 жыл бұрын

#3 was my biggest breakthrough!! Hopefully your comment helps future moes

Moe said publicly that he did not have the feeling of moving his hips at all. This is because all great ball strikers whether they know it or not release or unfold their entire lead joints altogether on the downswing. Knowing this truism of the swing sure has helped me increase my spread and accuracy in my own personal swing. Cheers.

I started using Moes sewing style a couple of years ago. I ht the ball 80 percent of the time now perfectly straight and 200 plus yards down the middle. More is the best

Great Analysis on alignment and direction of ball. I am an inspired single plane MOE Norman swinger. My straight line is the same as MOE; I swing outside to inside; the direction of the ball angles inside. I really like the swing. Thank you confirming the inside angle; I’m not doing it wrong 😂

I'm 66 years old. I am using Moe's swing. I'm enjoying it; hitting fairways and greens consistently than any of the swings I had before.

He did stay down a long time through the swing which did make his club stay online for a "long time"...kinda like Trevino and Hogan or even Freddie Couples.

i try Moe swing-and i founded amazing how consistent i hit the ball.

Moe said in Kirk Junge's video that he got his swing from Manuel de la Torre's father, Angel, Manuel and Edward Jones. Correction on the second name, it was Ernest Jones not Edward Jones. He was from the UK and lost his right leg, below the knee in 1915 as a soldier. He spent four months in the hospital, then went to the golf course on crutches and shot 83. A short while after, he was playing par 72 golf, once again. He was a golf club maker and then a teacher. He says everyone's swing will be slightly different but to "swing the clubhead" and the brain will figure out the mechanics to hit the ball, just like using a hammer to hit a nail. He said, "...we don't need to know how every component in our body or muscles work to use them efficiently." As I understand, It is a 'club / tool based' concept rather than a 'body based' concept. Absolutely fascinating to me....

@maxxsee

9 жыл бұрын

Thanks for typing about his theories. Interesting indeed! Many ppl don't understand what natural golf swing that moe used even is.

literally for a month studied this swing with moe and todd graves videos, starting to hit balls on the range for the 1st time this year and already i hit only a few off line with the driver like 90 out of 100 INSANE, THANKS TODD, RIP MOE : ( and i dont even have the newest clubs just a few new Tommy Armour wedges and woods/hybrids, thats all. ITS NOT THE CLUBS PEOPLE ITS THE SWING WE NEED TO FIX/ CHANGE. NEW CLUBS DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE, THE PROS R NOT PERFECT WITH NEW EQUIPMENT, TECH, COACHES, TRAINING AND LIFTING THE WEIGHTS.

MN's club head "bottoms-out" so consistently. The "face time" given to compress the ball properly is as consistent as his bottoming out of the base of the club. MN executes both so.... repeatedly..... with all tee-to-green clubs. MN enjoyed a high level of ball striking mastery over a very long time! Another Norman, (Greg) spoke (on occasion) about how he tried to get his swing to 'bottom out correctly' (to help ensure good ball compression = less spin ratio in pressure moments and so forth. Though GN doesn't speak a great deal to this bottoming out topic in his instructional information a guy named Bobby Clampett does. BC is worth a look for those interested in the true hallmarks of good ball striking over long periods of time. Phil Mickelson talks about "face time". He said that if he can give the ball a lot of face time he'll keep the ball in play (and score quite well). He has a resume that supports keeping the face on the ball down a desired path for longer periods of time. Wayne D, maybe you have some thoughts on the topic of compressing the golf ball correctly to maintain good ball striking over a long period of time? (As an aside comment, you were a helluva player once upon a time. Probably still are!!! Frankly, I don't know why you didn't clean up on the PGA tour. You compressed the golf ball as well as anyone.

I am confident that Moe was referring to being longer, down the target line, than anyone else "after impact!" In this 1990's video, he is both old and obese; in the 'young moe norman' video by Greg Lavern (LeftofMoe on YT), Moe was much thinner/more flexible, so he swung under himself much more. He never used a 'conventional' golf setup, so he never had the 'modern-day' injuries, either. But he stood 7-hrs on the tee, in a 1950's Toronto exhibition and hit 1,540 drives and all, without exception, landed in a 30-yard circle at 225-255 yards distant! 17- holes-in-one, 9-double eagles, 33 course records, 55 tour victories --- not bad for a guy who never finished high school. He was 'brow beaten' off the PGA Tour, in New Orleans in 1959; rumors are that it was Fuzzy Zoeller & Friends, because of Moe's course antics, broken/missing teeth and mis-matched clothes. The same kind of 'arrogant narrow-mindedness' that Ernest Jones experienced when he tried to convince PGA President Horton of his simple 'tool' approach to the swing --- Horton said it was too simple/easy to learn and his teaching pros wouldn't give enough lessons! Ironically, they were only averaging 600/year, while Ernest Jones was averaging 3,000/year, indoors, on the 7th floor of the A.C Spaulding building in New York...

The more videos I look at about Moe's swing it reminds me of Top Gun and Kelly McGinnis criticism of his flying as a text book no no.How funny looking at the results of a God given genius.Who worked very hard for his whole life giving of hisself.

Amazing vid , I was 16 when moe came to my club in Kingston ont at the cat for a demo!! I thought it was cool but Looking back now I wish I had paid more attention

I went out and played 9 holes after a 7 year absence of the game. I started focusing on Moe's swing to make it an easier transition. 200 yards straight and 100 yards to the right on my slices with a conventional swing and tough on the back. It was the first time I had never sliced the ball with my driver. I did hook it while reintroducing it into my game. On my third hole it was 225 yards and straight as an arrow. The last hole was straight again and a five iron straight giving me a birdie for the win! I will stand behind Moe and not criticize something that definitely works.

Nice analysis. Moe I believe was just a very very talented golf player. He said himself he could 'see' in his mind exactly what he wanted to do. This is KEY!! However, the fact that he hit millions of balls, coupled to his natural ability no doubt helped. Also, in common with some other great players, what he felt he was doing and what actually happened, weren't the same. Jim Furyk is another great example, as what he says he 'feels' is not what happens. To score 59 though is amazing Moe .RIP!

Thank you. I was looking at moe like he figured something out. Ha. It turns out it was his own thing.

It's funny looking at this. I never had a lesson and just grew up figuring that having the arms out in that single plane was the natural way to go - only later, when I took a few lessons, was I told to get away from it, move closer to the ball, and tuck the elbows in closer to the body. I was still a crap golfer either way, but to me it just seemed to make sense to narrow down the moving parts and complexity by having the arms and club in a single straight line to the shoulders. I only came on Moe Norman and his swing much later.

His resume impresses me! Shot 59 4 times, has numerous course records, and many tournament victories. I agree that his recognition and number of victories would be much higher if he'd played more PGA tour events, but his greatness shines through. Like he said people said: best ball striker in the world. Not a shabby accomplishment to have on your resume if you ask me!

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

From 1953 to 1971, Moe played a total of 32 PGA tournaments of which 5 was as an amateur. He made 25 cuts and missed 7. In 10 of those years he did not manage a top 25 finish. Earned $7139 in total over 18 years or $396 per year. I think that was more than enough time for Moe to shine...lol www.pgatour.com/players/player.05463.moe-norman.html.

I completely agree with what you are saying about what Moe says vs what he does. That being said ,I'm a short blocky built guy and for me his set up and swing is what I am trying to immulate and it works for me . But I find almost all descriptions of golf swings are confusing.

The long right arm extension through impact made him feel like his right hand could paint a line straight through the ball for 22 inches.

Note that if you move forward the way he does while making a circle the club in relation to the ground will not go in circle at the bottom. So the club head will go straight to the target line while the head is moving. Also when he says his hips will not pull him out is not that the hips will not rotate but the hips are not driving driving the swing but the shoulders are driving the hips. I don t think you understand what he said

Once, at the Alberta Open, he hit a fourwood long on the 210 yard par three 15th with a slanted green. Each time he went long and could not save par. The last time he fired his caddie and carried his bag the last three holes. That night I bought him dinner.

great video!

Moe definitely owned it. That’s how I look when I’m hitting a huge pull or wiping across for a huge slice!!!!!

Love the saying Watch what good player say the feel is always a little different than the reality great breakdown of Mos swing

Great video Wayne. I was a friend of Moe's since 1981, introduced by an mutal friend at Earl Grey here in Calgary. I try to take elements of Moe's swing, but him being Asperger's who knows what he was feeling in his swing?

What Moe said and what he meant were two different things. If one wants to try and learn his technique you would need use the swing itself as the model not what his words. Those teaching his swing says this time and time again. The fact is that he was one of the greatest ball strikers ever so there is something to be learned from his genuis. :-)

Good work as usual Wayne. To be honest what Norman said about his swing should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Great break down. More proof that in golf, no matter who you are, feel is not real.

sweet.. i was wanted a moe norman analysis considering he is the best canadian golfer ever.

Wayne is NOT discrediting Moe's swing. He's just saying that the reality is not what Mo thought was happening and players should not try to copy his words but try to copy his actual actions. What's wrong with that? Give Wayne a break.

I lost a lot distance trying to copy the Moe Norman golf swing. Even went to a few Schools to learn it. Lost a ton of distance because of restricting the leg movement, keeping the right foot flat and standing so far from the ball. One lesson in Kirk Jung's setup for impact golf swing fixed everything. His method is more like Bryson D's swing. Much more on plane than Moe too.

@garthdownton8645

5 жыл бұрын

I have no idea where you get restricted leg use from Moe's swing! Mine are driving as hard as they can right to the finish! His is the only swing that allows me to do this. I left the conventional swing years ago because I realized I could not use my legs properly!

Wayne I'd say you'd nearly regret having a youtube channel at times, those comments are like a battlefield! I really enjoy the videos, you clearly know your stuff and have more than enough experience to back it up. Keep up the great work, I've definitely learned so much from your videos and am massively appreciative of that!

@maxxsee

9 жыл бұрын

***** Hateful comments are uneccasary. However I do get the impression you downtalk Moe a bit here. You say "Somehow ppl got the impression he hit the ball better than everyone else because of these slight differences in grip etc". That is not the whole picture in my book sir. In my oppinion, after having played this swing only for 13 years (or tried to atleast) is that the setup and the turn is what makes this swing so repeatable and accurate. Not just some minor details like you say. In my oppinion if 2 equally skilled players competed and one used Moes mechanics and the other "conventional" mechanics, Moes would always win easily. The reason being is that you can not repeat the conventional swing easily without effort. With Moes swing you can because you can relax your body and still hit your positions. You might not understand this point but I'm absolutely sure of this. I believe it is because as Moe said "his swing balanced him". Translation every move he made from the start of swing made the next movement very natural to do. You could say he used his anatomy and joints to perfection, why calling the swing a natural golf swing is actually very accurate. You can NOT relax into your positions in a conventional swing ((you have to time and coordinate a lot more movements), THAT Sir is the difference in my experience.

@nourbutwatmi

8 жыл бұрын

+maxxsee Very well said. I'm 65 and just started playing after 20 years away from the game. I was a self taught player and I addressed the ball with my arms straight. I never heard of Moe Norman back then and had no idea that a pro golfer had the same kind of swing. Anyway, since I started playing again this summer I bought a new set of clubs (Pings Gmax) and tried the two plan system, feeling that I wanted to start back and play the game correctly. Well I just can't get myself used to it and have had a lot of trouble in the effort. After watching a youtube video of Moe I went straight to the range and started back to my straight arm style of old and couldn't be happier. Thank God for KZread, I could even hit the Hybrid which is something I haven't been able to do for the last three months, because I never owned one before only fairway woods. I don't even think there was such a club back then.

Thank you very much for the great video!!! One thing you might want to consider when you debunk the idea that Moe didn’t swing down the line as he claims is the following. While it’s true he swings on an arc, he is also sliding the arc forward as he swings with his lateral motion. This lateral motion could give him more “down the line motion” than others (even if only a small amount). Also, remember even parallel lines will appear to cross in the distance. So, to know how “right” hi toe line is, you should extend the lines off in the distance.

Most didn't realize, 'snap' is one of important factor in Moe's swing. #moenorman2k

Actually, Sandy Lyle switched to that swing AFTER he won the Masters and has endorsed it widely as a simpler, better method. However, most are taught the more complex traditional grip and swing and simply refuse to deviate.

I don't know where you guys get the idea that this is a critique. What I see is a video about how Moe said he swung and how Moe actually swung. That's how I got here to this video. I watched Moe explaining how he hit a ball and noticed right away that what he thought he was doing and what he was doing was two different things. People who play by feel will always do that. It's the one big reason that golf is so difficult to teach. You have to put "feelings" into words. I think that Moe was such a great ball striker because of repetition. But there is a lot more to golf than ball striking. Moe is proof that if you actually hit 1,000 balls a day, you will end up being a pretty fair golfer without ANY lessons from anybody.

Actually he did build an impressive resume in Canada - was bullied and ostracized on the PGA so he left - CPGA championship runner up '65, CPGA champion '66 and '74 represented Canada at the International World's Cup of the Americas, National Amateur, American Open Senior CPGA champion '81through '87, 33 course records, 17 holes in one shot 59 three times, four double eagles. not too shabby.

"down the line" = the 12" distance of club behind ball and through impactvuntil exit. he moved laterally and sit into left knee also extending the club impact line. left side sit knee bend like hogan.

@spartanstackandtilt Steve Stricker, Tim Herron, Stuart Appleby, Michael Campbell, Mike Weir, Stephen Ames, Notah Begay, Kirk Triplett, Todd Hamilton, Tim Clark...

The club head is only square for a split second. As soon as it makes impact it starts closing

Best ballstriker ever, by far. So many people get caught up in how many wins etc etc, but that has really nothing to do with how good the swing is. It is so perfect, some people understand why and some don't. =)

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

Spoken like a 24 handicapper

@maxxsee

3 жыл бұрын

@@kalaharisafari7648 because the singleplane is short? =)

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxxsee bha ha ha ha🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂

@maxxsee

3 жыл бұрын

@@kalaharisafari7648 ;)

Left arm swings the club. Moe Norman.

Bottom line is this: dozens of the games greatest players flat out will tell you Moe was the best ball striker who ever played.

By keeping his left knee bent and not lifting his hips up thru impact, his club head does extend further down the line than a conventional swing.

@peterzenewicz329

4 жыл бұрын

No it doesn't. Watch the video.

Thanks for the videos Wayne. I understand what you mean by "the players play by feel." I began to play by feel about 2 months ago and my game has gone up. I studied Moe's swing and tried various things he does. I found that the one thing that works for me is starting the club about 6 inches away from the ball. It works for my mid to long irons extremely well, especially my 7 iron. I have to calibrate a bit for the woods. Probably because the length of the club. I tend to hook the ball with the woods that way. Otherwise, I hit 6 out of 9 greens in regulation since doing this 2 days ago.

Moe does swing down the target line Wayne....but this is seen and experienced from his eye perspective and not the cameras, which is set directly behind the target line. Moe should perhaps have said that he swings it along his plane line, which naturally moves inside the target line as viewed from a stationary camera eye, set-up behind and on the target line. However it doesn't change the fact that from his 'eye perspective' Moe was swinging towards his target for as long as could thru' the impact area.

I can hit a ball strait open stance, close stance, off just one leg front or back. Now there may be slight fades or draws due the resistance or lack there the various stances cause, which effect the release of the club head. If you have played a lot of sports, your brain gives you a lot for free. The brain has the "technical specs" your body down pat if you have played a wide variety of things. If I am focused on swinging to a target, no matter the stance, your brain will accommodate.

I think this is a great video because you make a strong counterpoint to the the excessive focus on Mo as "down the line" where people might lose the comprehensive view: Mo had a terrific arc and release of club around his torso. Your point about his sort of fake finish is a great one. BUT, you're saying that you "got to go to the video, go to the real swing" but you don't have enough video information here to analyze what is happening down the line. You just don't have enough info here to debunk what he is saying that he is MORE down the line than other golfers. You would need an aerial view. Or he would need to be standing on a glass floor with the camera under the floor looking up. And then you would need to compare that video to other great ball strikers of his day, filmed from the same camera point of view. In the video of the thing he did with the pga, the camera man does one close up of Mo striking a fairway wood. It's a great angle (somewhat above and in front) and shows the club brushing the grass for quite some distance (flat) and what appears to be quite "down the line" (straight). It's perfectly possible to have degrees of straightness. Obviously, nothing on an arc is straight. But a wider arc is straighter than a narrower arc. And it's perfectly possible to have a compound radius, where an arc's width changes at different points, probably something lateral motion influences. I think the whole idea of what Mo was trying to do was create less room for error by creating a flatter and "straighter" hitting zone. The fact that he made such consistent contact and hit it so straight would seem to bear this out,. Also, doesn't what a golfer "feel" matter, even if that is not what is actually happening?

Thx for this in depth analysis. I thought I was among the few who could not align what Moe SAID he does with what his swing actually does, including the target line. His turning (as opposed to his lateral motion toward the target) hip movement though seems to be more a result of the club head 'dragging' his hips rather than any conscious turning to get his lower body into the impact moment. He has said its all shoulders and arms, his hips are not an active participant in his swing. I think he may be right. I have tried this swing and continue to practice it, and it's impossible to stop the hips from turning, under the neck. The 'sit down' though is part of his swing too. Do you have any thoughts about it?

In this swing, he definitely pulled left. But in many others where I could see the ball, it goes dead straight. I think you picked the wrong swing. As I've read about Moe, he occasionally did have mishits, just that they were rare, very rare.

@jaysiclec5860

Жыл бұрын

Yes. He has stated that about (1) of (100) were off line - by his standard. Can imagine that his window on the remaining (99) was 20 yards wide (+/-10yd) at 270-280. I am a 9.4 index and am 40% off line to my own standard of +/-20yd at 250. I average a 241yd drive distance. Average fairway width of courses I play is about 40yd. I could be a 6.0 index if every drive for me was one of Moe's miss hits. 🙂

The key to Moe's swing is that his left wrist does not cup or bow through out his swing, even at finish.

@teeno684

4 жыл бұрын

Waqar Ghulam can you explain what cup or bow means. Thank you in advanced.

Some of my golf pals went to the natural golf school and worked on the Moe swing for months. I pocketed some serious coin thanks to that school. I kept telling these guys; "you have to swing down the line more!" LOL

I dont think Mr Norman's finishing move of pointing the club was to signify he swung down the target line. I think he used the straight edge of the club shaft to judge how straight the shot flew.

@davida.4933

4 жыл бұрын

No. You'll finish like that when you set up like Moe with hands out from body and try to swing down the line, plus keeping the right foot from lifting post impact.

@Thegooob95

3 жыл бұрын

@@davida.4933 yup, it “lifts you up”

Just to add something to my point, watch any worker on any assembly line who is forced to do the same motion over and over and over. In a year, they will be among the best in the world at what they do. Now, they aren't paid as much as a pro golfer and they aren't famous either, but they are absolute proof that repetition is the key to consistency.

@timidtornado2869

4 жыл бұрын

But first you have to know the technique. I can repeat my swing a billion times, and I'll always have a slice to it......so I must change something

@FredCDobbs-er4qd

4 жыл бұрын

@@timidtornado2869 Uh, do you think after a year taking apart a brake cylinder that they don't know the technique? I simplified what most people complicate. If you want to try and learn to hit a golf ball really well there are two ways of learning how.....go to a pro and you have a 90% failure rate OR do it on your own by constant repetition. That is a sure thing if you can apply yourself to the task. It is also free.

@timidtornado2869

4 жыл бұрын

@@FredCDobbs-er4qd my point is....if you repeat bad technique...you will be an expert at that bad technique

@FredCDobbs-er4qd

4 жыл бұрын

@@timidtornado2869 And my point is, you have eyes. If the ball is constantly slicing I would hope you would change something until it no longer sliced.. You need someone to hold your hand. I was speaking of those who do not.

It has to be obvious that if you swing a golf ...no matter what plane you think you are swinging, it is going to make a circular pattern. If your swing pattern is upright, then your club is only going to be in the impact area for a very short time. If your swing pattern is lower and more flat it is going to enter the the swing path sooner ...and exit later. Maybe that time may only be a few hundredths of a second longer but it will still be there longer than an upright swing. Just as you can swing a baseball bat on a flatter line and keep it in the impact zone longer.

some sage analysis, wayne. what do you think of his palm/hammer grip? i feel that if you grip it that way the motor that drives the swing becomes more arms/torso and less lower body.

Okay, here is the thing. When you look from behind, yes the club head follows the normal arc after it leaves the impact zone after contact and sweeps inside the red line indicating the target line. BUT, suppose you could see the clubhead from Mo's vantage point after impact. With his arm great extension after impact, the club head is on the red line after impact from HIS vantage point. You can try this yourself with some practice sticks or spare clubs and place a club in the impact position and then just after after with arms fully extended. With arms extended after impact and not collapsed or with flipped over hands and forward weight shift like Mo or any good player, the clubhead, from the viewpoint of the player, IS on the target line after impact and not sweeping to the inside as is REALLY the case which can be seen from the rear view of the swing. Mo, with his ADD, could only explain what HE felt and saw from HIS vantage point in the swing. It was not necessarily what was going on from the vantage point of an observer. Good analysis all in all though.. Very helpful..

Moe Norman always stood closed to his target when driving....when he uses irons he would square up, and with wedges he would open up.

@harryartinian7982

2 жыл бұрын

That is exactly right. And that slight adjustment was the last piece of knowledge that made a huge difference for me. Straight and long almost every time.

Moe Norman had the GREATEST impact position in the history of golf .... and what NO ONE ever mentions is that he was very strong, and also left handed.

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

Moe was a non event in golf. He did not win anything meaningfull on PGA tour

@williamf.6965

Жыл бұрын

Yet, people still talk about him. Great players come and go, but legends never die.

@margrain1

11 ай бұрын

@@kalaharisafari7648 he was bullied by the clowns on the PGA tour because he was different, Why would you want to play where you are not allowed to be yourself and god forbid have fun while playing golf????

The one thing that I dont think anyone has said here, to my knowledge is the fact that he practiced a lot. I am just getting to understand the method behind his madness, or strangeness. In my mind, practice is key to everything in golf. I dont go to the range now as much as I used to when I was younger and it shows. I dont hit the ball as crisply as I did back then and I cant get it to do what I want it to do compared to back then. If anyone is to follow Moe's style, go out and practice.

Hey Wayne, How about showing us your swing ! You are so adept at analyzing everyones swing you must be the 2nd best ball striker !

@birdieispar4079

10 жыл бұрын

***** Of course everything is relative, I started playing at 48 years of age, plays to a genuine 8, and never took a lesson from a so called pro . Plays for $100 a hole with a empty wallet ! You prob started playing a 4 years old, spent a six digits $ on lessons and "PLAYED IN TEN MAJORS" . Did you make one cut ?

@owoled282

10 жыл бұрын

BIRDIEISPAR I don't understand people who give Mr. Defrancesco a hard time for being analytical. There's plenty of bad golf instruction in the internet if that's what you're looking for.

@birdieispar4079

10 жыл бұрын

Tomás Yáñez He was not being analytical, he was being OVER ANALYTICAL,ie nit picking. The point I was trying to make, which Mr. Defrancesco was to much of an egomanic to see, is that if you are going to question the GREATEST ball stricker of all times and cast doubts about his claims you had better have a robust resume yourself not just some invitation to some tournaments. As such the only person entitled to question Moe Normans claims would be the 2nd best ball striker of all time, Mr. Hogan and he never did.

@KaleAshrim

9 жыл бұрын

BIRDIEISPAR That's total nonsense... Steven Hawking is confined to a wheelchair, but that doesn't make his observations on Newton's laws of motion any less acute. Some people have the skills and background understanding for analysis and teaching, but they aren't necessarily the best players of all time. By your absurd reckoning golf professionals wouldn't consult coaches, such as Butch Harmon or David Leadbetter, they'd all be queuing up for lessons from old major winners. They aren't and for good reason.

@KaleAshrim

9 жыл бұрын

e james Yeah... but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

He was the best at this. But, we also have the short game to work on. Bobby Jones did some great videos on that.

Initially I agreed with Wayne that Moe was pulling the ball, but now I'm not so sure. If at 1:00 you were to make a line to the horizon along his toes, I think it would meet the horizon at the same point as Wayne's drawn ball flight line. If so, then Moe is certainly is not pulling the ball.

@palavigne4

3 жыл бұрын

Look at his hips at address. Also..this is a passive aggressive hit piece where OP is trying to justify his opinion that Moe wasn’t as good or as different as anyone else.

As a professional golfer myself and a student of the game. You come to a point where you realize that no matter how good you are, what you feel you are doing is very rarely what you actually are doing. As a player we don't care as long as the ball is going where we want it to and we're shooting the scores we want. But as Butch Harmon would say, and im pretty sure we can all agree he's a decent teacher, "Feel and real are two totally different things." Oh btw, Johnny Miller is a boss, 63 Oakmont!

@kalaharisafari7648

3 жыл бұрын

Pro golfer that made $375 in 2017. Ghee you are turning the world of golf upside down, aren't you? lol

@Pooler29

Жыл бұрын

@@kalaharisafari7648 You're a real knob dude. What are your best scores?

Moe pulled his right leg back some with the driver, like Hogan.

Without taking a single thing from Mo's achievments I think its fair to say that if you hit as many balls as Mo did in his life time you could make almost any style work for you. Witness messers Darcy, Furyk, and Calvin Peete, to name a few. As we know its all about returning the clubface square at impact. Isnt it amazing how much time is spent analysing golf swings but we all know its not about that, is it. Its about playing the game. The truly great players know/knew how to play the game. :)

Hola, donde podría encontrar material de la técnica de Moe Norman en español?

When I took up the game 18 months ago at age 65, I adopted Moe's straight-elbows address and takeaway because the simplicity of the swing made better sense at my advanced age of taking up the game. But I have my toes lined up at the target, instead of using Moe's closed stance. Have to tell ya, though, whenever I missed a shot in the first year and hit it to the left, the ball flew like a rocket, dead straight and even past 300 yards on the carry. Still don't have the courage to play for that left-pull deliberately (aiming the feet out-of-bounds to the right fries my brain), as Moe apparently did, but the rocketing, dead-straight ball flight on the Moe Norman left-pulls is phenomenal to see. 18 months later, I'm now hitting 12-13 out of 14-15 fairways using his straight-elbows technique, with a 250-275 yard carry. I'm a firm believer in Moe's simple, no-angles address and backswing to keep the ball in play. If I were younger and had years to learn how to hit that left-pull consistently in the fairway, I would...but using the Moe Norman straight-elbows technique, even with lined-up toes, is working just fine for me. Better to have 250+ in the fairway than 300+ in the trees or the lake, and that's what Moe Norman;s swing does for me in my sophomore year in the game.

@rektspresso7288

9 жыл бұрын

lol this is the stupidest comment I've ever read on youtube, do you actually expect anybody to believe any of the ridiculous claims you made? And before you say "I don't care if anyone believes me because I know it's true!", that's obviously not correct because if it were, you wouldn't have taken the time to put your supposed abilities in such detail on a public forum.

@GDKRichardson

9 жыл бұрын

Rektspresso I regret making the "stupidest comment" you've "ever read on youtube," but I played yesterday and my stupidity still stands. Using Moe's elbows-straight technique, when I missed the fairway with my toe-line aimed at the middle, the ball rocketed left. Had three bad misses on fourteen drives. Very fortunately, two of the misses were on dog-leg lefts so the rocketed ball ended up in the middle of the fairway, at least fifty yards left of where I had aimed. One miss went left 292 yards dead-straight uphill, and the other went dead-straight left just a little under 300 yards. The third left-pull miss is long lost into the desert sagebrush; might be somewhere in the next county. I cannot achieve such distances or such dead-straight ball flights when I hit a fairway in regulation. Part of the point I was trying to make in support of Wayne's analysis of Moe Norman's swing is that the closed toe-line stance can produce a crushing, dead-straight shot that is across the toe-line. Ben Hogan set up his drives with his toe-line closed. So did Sam Snead and Gary Player. They were playing for a power fade, yet set up their toe-line for a closed stance draw. There's a Moe Norman video on KZread where he routinely hits 300 yard drives as an old man in his sixties, dead-straight in the middle of the fairway, but apparently across his toe-line. Wish I had the time to learn that kind of consistency, but probably my stupidity prevents me.

@rektspresso7288

9 жыл бұрын

***** I concur, Wayne. Love your videos by the way

@seattle_ice

9 жыл бұрын

Lol. Carrying the ball 300 yards at 65 years old? I needed a good laugh today. Most pros don't carry the ball anywhere near 300 yards in their prime.

@Randsurfer

9 жыл бұрын

Don Kirk 300 yards carry after your first year of playing at age 65. Awesome. How many one-arm pushups do you do between holes?

Moe ofcourse hit it down the line. It was his down the line ha ha I love Moe's spirit. A very sweet person. I hope that some of him comes into me and let me qualify for the senior tour next month. And Guys, do not fight over rights. Enjoy the moment

@crsnhnry

10 жыл бұрын

How did the qualifying go?

"....He was so strange that He really couldn't really take what he had out and develop a great resume as a player."..... (Your quote) Try this on for a "RESUME".... Moe played in the Masters>TWICE in 1956 & 1957 as the Canadian Amateur Champion. He shot 75 on Thursday after three-putting SIX times.... Then shot 78 on Friday with more three putts.... He withdrew on Saturday after injuring his hands on the range Friday night after Sam Snead gave him a swing tip.... Moe Norman won more than 50 Canadian Tour titles and other tournaments>> twice winning the Canadian PGA Championship, the Canadian PGA Seniors Championship nine times, and setting at least 33-course records. Oh, and he carded Seventeen holes-in-one and 9 Double eagles. The ESPN Documentary from years ago showed that he was "scared off" by PGA Tour Officials after he turned pro and played in the States. What would he have been?... Answer:>>>A household name in the US if he would have stayed. I find it strange that some American golfers have never heard his name.

@jefffawcett

4 жыл бұрын

That’s like complaining that Americans don’t know someone who dominates the Asian tour. Instead of proving he was a top player by competing against the best he stayed in Canada playing against far worse competition and no crowds. It’s not our fault he had psychological issues.