"This weapon couldn't possibly have been real, it's impractical and it could cause self-harm!" When has that ever stopped anyone?

@kennethmitchell1960

2 жыл бұрын

makes me think of early firearms when put like that lol

@bilibiliism

2 жыл бұрын

yeah. 'its too stupid to be real' is the worst argument since you can never underestimate human stupidity. except flail is not really stupid.

@wu1ming9shi

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, we're talking about mankind here. xD

@Quandry1

2 жыл бұрын

follow through is something that a lot of arm chair analysts don't understand. But then something like the nun-chuck the danger isn't just in the follow through. At least not in any of the most common styles of usage we see most do in martial arts spinning and flipping nun-chucks around.

@vincentsander9927

2 жыл бұрын

@@kennethmitchell1960 Ye^^ the earliest muscets where just pipebombs opened at one end. Don't wanna know how many people just blew their face of, trying to shot one of these...

Riding chickens wielding flails... Ah, the Grand Army of Kentucky. An honorable bunch.

@Sheridantank

3 жыл бұрын

As Kentucky's neighbor to the north I can confirm this.

@McHobotheBobo

3 жыл бұрын

He was choking a chicken and holding a BDSM device.... 🤔

@Anino_Makata

3 жыл бұрын

Did Col. Sanders hail from them?

@orenjineko646

3 жыл бұрын

Or maybe it was the depiction of griffin?

@spyrofrost9158

3 жыл бұрын

@@orenjineko646 Probably a cockatrice

In regards to the multichained ones, they might also be a stylization done by the artists struggling with how to depict how animated the weapon was.

@Kratos-eg7ez

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but you would think the handle would also be stylized like that, the chain can't move if the handle ain't moving.

@LastAmongEquals

Жыл бұрын

I mean, so long as the weapon has started moving, yes it explicitly can. That's the big difference between chained and hafted weapons.

@TheTuttle99

Жыл бұрын

​@@LastAmongEquals exactly like how dumb is this guy

@bl4cksp1d3r

Жыл бұрын

​@@Kratos-eg7ez it can. Grab a chain or rope, and swing it lightly around. It will move quite a bit even though your hand stopped

@purplelibraryguy8729

Жыл бұрын

You know, I think the multichained ones might be more effective. Sure, they seem silly, but the basic selling point of a flail weapon is difficulty to defend against. OK, it's not that easy to defend against ONE weighted chain, but when you've got a bit of a feel for it it's not that bad. Now try defending against THREE weighted chains. Tricky.

I always thought flails would be pretty useless in a real fight until I fought someone in armor with one. Defending against it is completely different than any other weapon, and I had no idea how to stop it. I blocked as if I would a sword, and the flail chain wrapped over my weapon and the head of the flail smashed me in the head. I imagine that using an uncommonly defended against weapon had advantages on the battlefield as that split second hesitation or confusion on how to block gave a significant chance of victory, especially on horseback where the negatives of the weapon are minimized.

@Kurochana

2 жыл бұрын

Sorta like the left hander of weapons in that sense, made more effective by being unorthodox and less known.

@eazy8579

2 жыл бұрын

Would a shield have been an effective option? Basically meeting it and stopping that way?

@alexwschan185

2 жыл бұрын

@@eazy8579 That's exactly how the flail gets you tho, where your shield stops your opponent's flail shaft which allows the ball to come in and hit your face. If you gotta block the flail you gotta block the ball which is hard to do since it's flying around and hard to choreograph.

@tikkaman6555

2 жыл бұрын

@@eazy8579 Nope. In fact a *heavy* "morningstar" type would be imo the primary intended use, especially in a pole configuration

@SM-nz9ff

Жыл бұрын

@@alexwschan185 Nope, you just block half again the length of the shaft, that puts the shield inbetween the haft and the flail head. It does not wrap around and hit you.

"Sometimes I get too animated with my hands, so I'm gonna try to stop doing that.." All the Italians: "what is he saying, I can't understand Skallagrim anymore???"

2 notes. First, feels like “wasnt real” really meant “all the good sources are in the east.” Secondly, the flail is just a fully upgraded rock in a sock.

@biohazard724

3 жыл бұрын

The ol' bag of nickels

@richhartnell6233

3 жыл бұрын

When you get 1000 kills with the sock rock you unlock the flail skin.

@positroll7870

3 жыл бұрын

In the East - including Germany ... There is a whole chapter on the topic in this book archive.org/details/diekriegswaffeni00demmuoft/page/n3/mode/1up from 1893 ...

@iansullivan9738

3 жыл бұрын

So...a sling?

@iansullivan9738

3 жыл бұрын

@@richhartnell6233 "Sock Rock" sounds like a name for a Funk Rock band.

The german name for one-handed flail is "Reitflegel", wich translates to "Riding flail" because it is a "flail you use while riding". I actually inherited one of those from my grandpa. As a german it's hard to imagine that someone could think these things never existed, these things were not that uncommon here in europe.

I am from Russia and I want to say that flails were really used here, even children know this. Fairy tales, folk legends, epics, they are used everywhere here. This is a simple primitive weapon that can be made from improvised means, quite lethal, easy to carry, does not require sharpening or any other special maintenance. Even an apprentice of a blacksmith will always make a striker, you will find a stick on an oak tree, a rope or a chain is also not a problem to find. This weapon corresponds to the locals, I can say with confidence that medieval Russians would definitely use this, because it is cheap, simple, convenient.

@nikmenn2751

Жыл бұрын

It's not only simple, two-handed flails that consisted of longer and shorter segments were commonly used to thresh the harvest from filth and thrash. And if you just nail some langets on shorter segment you will be able to clobber some arrogant greedy knight despite all his armor. You even don't need to recall on specialized mace strikers.

@konstantinriumin2657

Жыл бұрын

One handed flails were common weapon of robbers, bandits and other kinds of people who needed weapon with more reach than dagger and more concealable than club or sword

@nikmenn2751

Жыл бұрын

@@konstantinriumin2657 Twas actually more common as sidearm of chivalry, by the way most bandits in Middle Ages were in fact lower class of landed knights - the Raubritter who regularly gave problems to city magistrates justifying highway robberies with feudal agreements made by their distant ancestors.

@danylokupnovitsky9702

Жыл бұрын

I think what you meant by a flail was a mace (казка про Котигорошка) which is a similar but a different thing.

@georgiykireev9678

Жыл бұрын

@@danylokupnovitsky9702 Кистень

So, just fyi, Skall, I'm fluent in Russian. If you would be interested, I could try my hand at translating that video for a more in-depth look.

@tonydismukes4409

3 жыл бұрын

Please do. I’d love to know what they’re saying.

@randomthegreat2329

3 жыл бұрын

Thought about doing it as well. Want to split the workload? Also from the interesting things: - the instructor tells that normally you would prefer to use a weapon with a chain short enough that the ball won't reach your fingers, however the one he shows in the video has specifically longer chain for training purposes, so you can feel when you screw up and then he shows a different ways to avoid hurting yourself with it (and that mostly is keeping the momentum going) - regarding blocks (part that Skal refers in the video), he claims that both static block with the handle and striking into to catch the sword are the way to go, but you would prefer to use the weapon with a shield for defensive purposes or at least sword/dagger.

@--Samantha_1990

3 жыл бұрын

RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

@morriganmhor5078

3 жыл бұрын

You could look at that Google transcript and make it sensible?

@randomthegreat2329

3 жыл бұрын

@@morriganmhor5078 I looked into it a bit, but it seems that even russian transcript is quite bad, and the combination of auto-translation with it results in quite a mess. Sheesh, I understand fansubbers pain now xD

It helps that the two handed “peasant” flail was an agricultural tool, which meant it was probably cheap, since it’s something a peasant levied up for a war might just happen to have anyway.

@sevehayden1463

Жыл бұрын

Wait, how was it used?

@envysart797

Жыл бұрын

@@sevehayden1463 peasants used flails to thresh grain - essentially beat the grain with a flail to separate the edible part of the grain from the straw. As for how it’s used in battle, just like any blunt stick weapon I suppose.

@realdragon

Жыл бұрын

Like scythes, they are agricultural tool but easy to modify to use as a weapon. War scythes were used in large quantities in Poland since we had few wars where farmers were fighting. And it wasn't even that early, kosynierzy were fighting in XVIII century

@nothanks9503

Жыл бұрын

@@realdragonI just played Poland in civ we overran Lithuania and Sweden with pole arms (irony) and winged hussars imposing heavy taxes until we developed nukes so yeah farmers with pole arms can do a lot lol

@haakoflo

8 ай бұрын

It may be even more about technique than price. If you find some video of actual farmers using flails for threshing, it immediately becomes obvious that they wield it with much less effort and more elegance and accuracy than the typical "HEMA" youtuber. It's all about keeping the momentum up in the flailing end to conserve energy. This takes a lot more practice than sticking someone with a spear or bashing them with a club.

I hadn't thought of the hand-shock. That seems like a compelling reason for these things to exist.

@jairoukagiri2488

2 жыл бұрын

They can also reach around shields in nasty ways if done correctly, which a longer chain is good for. I myself have a hand-length flail and the reason we say it's the worst design is because you can't rest it well. If I want to hold the chain to the haft securely, I have to hold it higher than the grip or wrist strap is better suited for. So a longer or shorter chain is 'better' in general. It's not so bad with a gauntlet I imagine, and has a more balanced estimated length, but as much as I've handled it without any armor.. longer is better. I've handled straight chains as training and for technique, the length is the basis for some of the techniques you can try to pull off or figure out. Ideally, to me anyway, chains work best when you can either wrap it to decrease it's velocity/momentum or have the right kind of slack (depends on the links and chain style) to let it drop and pendulum-swing to a stop or a more controllable sway. Kudos to Skall' for recognizing the Castlevania tooling, whips and chain weapons oh my. >D

Flails invoke parallels to the use of shotguns on the modern battlefield. It is not a perfect parallel or analogy, but generally speaking, modern military forces do not use shotguns except under very special circumstances. However, it would be incorrect for someone to say [500 years from now] that shotguns were impractical and did not exist in modern military forces (and yes, I realize they would have plenty of evidence for their existence outside of the military, but pretend for a moment that we do not have hunting and sporting use of shotguns and we only considering the military usage). A historian 500 years from now could articulate all the practical reasons why a U.S. Marine would never have used a shotgun in Fallujah in 2004, but the reality is that special circumstances are- by definition- _special_, and that might translate to special or unorthodox equipment.

@suspiciouscheese4518

2 жыл бұрын

I’m so happy someone was willing to say this. Uncommon and nonexistent are not synonyms.

@ApexZer0

Жыл бұрын

One of the main reasons shotguns are not as heavy used by the military is it's hard to carry extram ammunition for them vs extra ammunition for an "assault" rifle

@jimbob465

Жыл бұрын

@@ApexZer0 range bruh

@FloodExterminator

Жыл бұрын

Even then, there is plenty of evidence of shotguns being used in warfare. Especially during WW1 where the German Army threatened to instantly execute soldiers caught either with a shotgun or shotgun shells. I believe there is eveidence of waterfowl hunters using shotguns to shoot incoming hand grenades.

@realdragon

Жыл бұрын

Yeah shotguns were called trench sweepers for a reason. BTW why army doesn't use shotguns? They're kinda OP

The hand shock argument is a pretty good one. How useful is a weapon if it wears you out and causes you pain on every hit that connects. Maybe if you don't expect the fight to last long, it wouldn't be a problem... But if you're expecting an extended battle, you might want to opt to use a flail instead.

@v.w.singer9638

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed. I suspect that the reduction of hand shock during extended combat was the main reason for the existence of flails.

@elsonlam

3 жыл бұрын

@@v.w.singer9638 I think the reach also played a role. You can block a sword/mace directly. But if you try that against the wrong part of a flail, next thing you know, someone's ball is all over your back.

@plzletmebefrank

3 жыл бұрын

@@elsonlam Right, and if you block a strike a bit too low from a solid weapon with a shield, the shaft will get caught and you'll block the strike just fine. Whereas if you the chain of a flail hits the top edge of your shield, the ball is still coming at your face.

@Dell-ol6hb

2 жыл бұрын

Yea I gotta imagine the force from a mace hitting a target from a full horseback charge has to cause a brutal hand shock, like I don't think I could withstand that lol

@ringo7499

2 жыл бұрын

Hand shock is overrated as an excuse. It was probably considered a minor factor back then. An amateur who hits a target a few times a month can't compare to somebody who's been training from birth for war. Martial artists toughen up to bear the shock from their own punches, which can easily break one's own hand, and even tennis players have stronger bones in their racket arm. Considerations about practical use of weapons should assume a user who was physically much sturdier than the average enthusiast today.

18:43 Sir I will have you know this is clearly an honourable knight fighting for the freedom of gaia on a chocobo, truly a mighty steed.

@tonydismukes4409

3 жыл бұрын

I was just about to leave the same comment! We clearly need more research into the important role of chocobo cavalry.

@tims9723

3 жыл бұрын

Ah! I too am familiar with the different realities of final fantasy 🤣

The flail as a cavalry weapon just seems undeniable now. The fact that it could basically negate the hand-shock would make it attractive enough for many knights to use it. Beyond that, if a full plate knight is on foot, they could move into an enemy's attacks using the offense of the flail while their armor offers the defense. Two full plate knights fighting on foot would often spend their time trying to trip each other (to then jump on your prone enemy and drive in your stiletto). A fail could be pretty good for tripping in that regard as well.

There are two more things that Russian guy mentioned that I found interesting: 1. Conservation of angular momentum is a thing. You can speed up the weight massively before the hit by switching from shoulder rotation to wrist/chain joint rotation. 2. As opposed to the more conventional weapons, you can conserve and redirect attack's momentum by spinning up the weight, allowing for a much faster follow-up return strike.

Great video, now you just know I'm going to have to make a single handed flail and use it from horseback, and try the double handed one too just to see how it works!

@gergokerekes4550

3 жыл бұрын

I was just wondering if the modern knight might try it out. I can already see the old helm getting a few nice whacks. Good luck!

@SuperOtter13

3 жыл бұрын

Yes please, sir. Would very much like to see that

@kyleheins

3 жыл бұрын

That would be cool to see!

@ReanuKeeves7716

3 жыл бұрын

I would totally watch that

@MWSin1

3 жыл бұрын

Test how effective it is for killing a giant snail while riding a chicken.

The biggest reason why they were used was because of hand shock, specifically on horseback. If you swing a mace or warhammer at gallop and hit something that weapon is gonna vibrate through your arm to the shoulder and hurt like hell. The flail joint stops that. You lose some effectiveness, but saying it was "impractical" really shows the person saying it didn't consider all the possibilities.

@Skallagrim

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, I mentioned that in the video.

@stefanfranke5651

3 жыл бұрын

That was what I thought about quite some time. The one handed flail could be a very specialized and devastating weapon from horseback with that extra momentum but required some extra skill for handling, hence the rarity. Should it get entangled, it just slides out of the hand, instead for a stiff weopon, which when stuck is painfully janked out of your hand and potentially messing up your arm or shoulder. Also a lost flail picked up by a foot soldier would have lesser defensive value for him then say a sword or a mace. But I'm just guessing. Hey, why not summon Jason Kingsley to test this for us in a practical experiment on his horse with fruit of his choice??

@martytu20

3 жыл бұрын

Scholar General made an excellent response adding to the discussion. kzread.info/dash/bejne/jIB2kpqiYLfNZqw.html

@SuperVanillacoke

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's also dangerous to assume that people in the past always arrived a perfectly practical weapon system anyways. Remember: the chakram exists.

@w415800

3 жыл бұрын

I would have thought the flails are for striking over and around the shield, striking skulls and limb.

The image at 19:37 sells it for me, the fact the artist depicted things like a polehammer, halberd, flanged mace and even a longer-haft version of the flail *along* with the single-handed flail is evidence enough of the fact this was a real medieval weapon. All weapons shown there were real weapons.

@ryanvandoren1519

Жыл бұрын

That's not evidence.. that's like saying a drawing of a murder scene is evidence...?

@ryanvandoren1519

Жыл бұрын

@@Sangth123 yes I do see how someone could do that. I make shit up all the time. Plenty of stories have true elements and fantasy. Seeing a painting of a weapon isn't evidence it existed.

@ryanvandoren1519

Жыл бұрын

@IronSea123 buddy if that's evidence enough for you, cool. I hope you're never on a jury.

@AR15andGOD

10 ай бұрын

@@ryanvandoren1519 I don't think you understood his comment. The artist went out of his way to depict multiple real world weapons that were around during the artists time, clearly as a compilation of some sort. Do you get it now? That added context lends credence to them actually being used.

@AR15andGOD

10 ай бұрын

@@ryanvandoren1519 It isn't just "a painting of a weapon". And it literally did exist, did you not watch this very video of the examples from the past? Why would they make something like this up? "We use a flail in battle, dude!" isn't a lie anyone would ever tell, especially over and over.

As someone who has used one handed flails in tournament on foot with a shield they are honestly one of my favorite weapons! They are a great counter to shields as they wrap around corners and force opponents to push out and open their stance or risk getting wrapped in the head. They allow you to command a large area on the field because once you get that ball swinging nobody wants to be near you, including your own team mates. Which can be a bit of a down side and probably while they weren’t used in tight formations on the battle field. But if you have to get around a shield or occupy a large area by yourself, flail away baby!

the "flail tank" still exists today to get rid of mines. I saw one on a job fair in the Bundeswehr booth when i was still in school about 15 years ago.

@positroll7870

3 жыл бұрын

Still in use today. Called "Keiler" (wild boar).

@aircraftcarrierwo-class

3 жыл бұрын

They're still in service! Really reliable way to clear old minefields from past wars. Kinda noisy but there really isn't a safer way to go about it.

@sirgaz8699

3 жыл бұрын

@@aircraftcarrierwo-class I can't imagine a machine I don't want to be around while it's working more.

@kooroshrostami27

2 жыл бұрын

makes a lot of sense to use a tank for this, in case the mine sweep fails you are protected.

@positroll7870

2 жыл бұрын

@@aircraftcarrierwo-class Um, no, not really. They are meant to clear a 5m wide lane through a minefield for tank columns to follow, not clear the whole minefield. While the flails detonate a lot of the mines or simply destroy them, maybe 20% are thown sideways out of the lane. They might even land ON the tank ... kzread.info/dash/bejne/aGR9qK6JctDKh5M.html

So,we have come full circle. First,flails were one of the most indicative weapons of the knights and medieval ages,appearing in everything tagged medieval: cartoons,video games,park rides and movies. Then,the realistic movement arrived with the rise of HEMA channels,and flails,swords,armor and other tropes were debunked and criticised,focusing on polearms,gambeson, longswords and absolute realism,with an army of "experts" always ready to criticise and attack the "unrealistic and wrong" elements from media. And now we return,giving flails the respects they are due, when they once were the symbol of the misunderstood medieval. Looking at how a russian nagaika is,it is not difficult to imagine it ending with an outer metal weight instead of the point being shot loaded. I recommend looking at Object History,he wrote a book regarding flexible weapons,like the flail and whips,and regularly uploads on his channel. He also spoke specifically about flop head maces and sand clubs

@Eshkanama

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. Just some constructive criticism, you should make spaces after your commas brother.

@kickslinging

3 жыл бұрын

First thing I thought when I saw the Russian video. I fairly recently bought myself a nagaika and it's funny, it really FEELS like it should be used from a horse. Downward strokes aiming below your knee just feel right with it.

@morriganmhor5078

3 жыл бұрын

The less such expert is able to use something the more he speaks about it. Take eg the "assault guns".

@w415800

3 жыл бұрын

The flail's shaft must be long enough so the head won't strike the holder's hand on a rebound, there should be an area bound by leather and seperated by a guard so the user won't shift their hand too high up on the shaft by mistake.

@kickslinging

3 жыл бұрын

@@w415800 You didn't watch the video did you?

Personally, I really enjoy using a flail with a shield. Friend of mine makes weapons and armor and lets me test them out. The feeling of slowly swinging it while hiding behind the shield then using the momentum to deliver a powerful strike is always fun.

@stevekillgore9272

2 жыл бұрын

Come on over to Amtgard

This just illustrates that when knowledge and experience are used to reason a subject rather than opinion, you'll generally find that something that has been used for hundreds of years usually has some validity. Often for reasons that people that have not set foot on a battlefield cannot even fathom. I salute your knowledge and expertise.

Oh damn, the horseback disarming handshock is a great insight.

@Cormano980

3 жыл бұрын

One handed hafted weapons had usually a leather strap to counter that , I think flails were used for the devastating effect , think a wreaking ball

@kylestanley7843

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that was actually a really convincing point. Like the guy above me said, hand shock could be mitigated with a leather lanyard or similar, but unless you let go of the weapon before you even hit, there will still be some serious shock. A flail would still be very effective on horseback even if it were inferior to a mace or similar, though, so what's really happened here is that people found a way to remove the hand shock on a weapon and then removed the issue of it not being powerful enough by simply riding a horse.

@TheMelnTeam

3 жыл бұрын

Hand shock, but probably also weapon durability and consistency. Less likely to get the weapon stuck on something when you are just smashing targets rather than impaling them, still decent reach, and since you get some bounce back you put less stress not only on the rider but also on the shaft of the weapon. Enough advantages that I can see why people would use it sometimes. I'm less impressed by it on foot, I would expect both 1h and 2h variants to be harder to use in foot soldier formations, with or without shields on either side. Though you could probably give one without a long chain to unskilled troops/levies and have them still be threatening, I'd expect spears were still the dominant choice in that role for a reason. Overall I agree with the video that there are enough depictions, examples, and theoretical use cases that these very likely saw practical use both on foot and especially on horseback regardless. Even if they weren't the most common weapon or "best" overall.

The "Ceremonial" "portable-husband" at 13:18 really killed me.

I think that "sir chicken knight" is actually an accurate depiction, of an artist depicting an recently knighted commoner. The chicken representing that he was to poor to own a horse, and the flail to signify his ties to farming, a flail was also a farming tool afterall. There are several ways why a flail (one or 2 handed) was however a good weapon. 1) easy to manufacture without having to know swordsmithing or for later guilds being a swordsmith. In many cities / countries it was forbidden to make swords if you weren't a swordsmith. Because of this we have things like long knives, and various other weapons. Additionally, its way easier and faster to make a flail, then it is to make a sword. 2) Hard to defend against. While you can with practice, parry swords, polearms, quarterstaffs and other solid weapons, the fact that a flail is a flexible weapon makes parrying a lot harder. Additional depending on the chain length, a flail can arc around a shield, and potentially injure an opponent. 3) Unpredictable and uncommon. Odd weapons often use odd maneuvers. If your not familiar with a certain weapon an adversary has, you can easily misjudge its range capabilities and threat assesment. In that regard using an uncommon weapon has several combat advantages. Now for the bad parts. 1) A flail nees specialized training, it isn't an intuitive weapon, or something you can pick up if you know other weapons. 2) Like all weapons its not effective against all types of armor. While it is extremely effective against chain, its more limited against plate, especially when the plate is combined with gamebeson (wich they usually were) then other bludgeoning weapons. 3) Its harder to use in tight formations, additionally an inexperianced fighter can harm itself, fellow combatants, or their horses unintentionally. Flails need to be able to use arcs, either diagonally (on foot) or vertical (on horseback) to be effective. this means formations are wider, and are at risk being countered by spear / pikeman wich can have tighter formations and put multiple spears/pikes onto one opponent. 4) flails are harder to carry around. Its harder to have a flail sheated and at the ready compared to a sword. In short: Flails were good in certain situations. But in most situations a different weapon would have been equally or more effective, and that weapon would have been used in more situations. The flail can be an effective Heavy cavalry weapon, and dueling / jousting weapon. Its less efficient as an infantry weapon.

Having faced opponants using LARP flails (not the best analog I know), my local group has noticed that flails have an interesting interaction with shields where if the head isn't blocked well enough then it'll to whip over the edge of the shield and land a blow on the arm. Not sure how well this would translate over to HEMA, but I thought it was a perspective worth pointing out.

I love how he opened with Shad's "Controversial" stand on the nunchucks. Great video as always Skal!

@AxxLAfriku

3 жыл бұрын

OH NOOOOOO!!! Most people agree that my vids are the worst on KZread. I agree to disagree. Please agree to disagree with the haters, dear kir

@issotti482

3 жыл бұрын

@@AxxLAfriku I didn't say I agreed with the haters. I just found it amusing that's what Skal chose to begin his video with. And honestly I find Shad's hazing hilarious. I do frankly find his bias against Asian weapons/styles a bit too grating to enjoy all of his videos. He was asking for a swift retort from others imo.

@rigormortiz5357

3 жыл бұрын

@@AxxLAfriku ah yes another comment thread derailed by Kaiser AxxL the Great

@TrevFirestorm

3 жыл бұрын

@@issotti482 Its a spam bot

@issotti482

3 жыл бұрын

@@TrevFirestorm good to know!

Plot twist: chicken knight is actually riding a Dakotaraptor

@AnonYmous-ob7py

3 жыл бұрын

I thought it was a chocobo.

@hermitcard4494

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome for a profile pic.

@Crusty_Cephalopod

3 жыл бұрын

Great idea But sadly a Dakotaraptor wouldn't be able to carry a person Neither Utharaptor if you ask me

@100acatfishandwillbreakyou2

3 жыл бұрын

@@Crusty_Cephalopod That's why they bred war Dakota raptors, much bigger than farm Dakota raptors.

@Crusty_Cephalopod

3 жыл бұрын

@@100acatfishandwillbreakyou2 That would be awesome

I just hope VR gets to the point where we can truly experience glorious melee combat with no risk. Imagine sparing with whatever weapon you want and not having to hold back at all.

@diogenes42069

Жыл бұрын

Do you want sword art online cuz that's how you get stuck in sword art online

@SquashGuy02134

Жыл бұрын

@@diogenes42069 I find your terms acceptable

@hyperx72

Жыл бұрын

@@SquashGuy02134 there's also blade and sorcery

@KullyKiat

Жыл бұрын

@@hyperx72 not a good cognate for real swordfighting, unfortunately.

I read one comment on flail, on an reenactment someone used light flail and was on horseback. By mistake rider used a little force which he didn't mean to and the guy who got hit had his ribs broken and couldn't breathe (he survived)

LOVED the video mate. I've been wanting to do a video myself on pole flails and your thoughts echo my own, it's a much more practical weapon, I mean it's a big long STICK with an additional attachment that furthers its utility. I've also said that I feel the flail clearly existed in the medieval period and totally agree that I don't think they were nearly as prominent as they're popularly depicted. The hand shock point is one of the strongest arguments in favour of the flail and I'm looking forward to doing some tests myself. For myself, I still don't like flails overall, but yes they do have some advantages, as I've mentioned in my own videos ^_^ Also obligatory nunchucks suck, stick master race. Get stick!

@tragobenehman3571

3 жыл бұрын

I would rather call it "reject nunchucks return to stick". Btw love your videos!

@totalutilitarian3292

3 жыл бұрын

Now you have toanswer the age old question: is it all about the length of the stick or how you wield it. And is there such a thing as too long a stick 🤣

@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699

3 жыл бұрын

I remember my kenjutsu sensei warned us to not spar with bokken (wooden practice swords) even in full sparring gear because a strike to the head would still lead to severe injury of course due to the ALL MIGHTY STICK!!

@alexsm3882

3 жыл бұрын

Stick good. Stick perfect. Stick go bonk.

@Gojiro7

3 жыл бұрын

I was hoping you'd show some small amount of humility over all the drama you've caused shitting on nunchucks without a care what other people think, like some semblance of a gentlemen.

"sometimes i get very animated and talk with my hands" as an italian, I think you don't talk enough with your hands. Also, the video was great and the hand shock thing was pretty interesting, I hadn't thought about it even though I've personally experienced it. Big brain

@NeoMicy

3 жыл бұрын

As a neigbour of Italy i thini it Is to much. I cant say if he wanna kill me or kiss me xD

@terradraca

3 жыл бұрын

What do you call an Italian with his hands in his pockets? A speech impediment

@KsanterX

3 жыл бұрын

🤌🤌🤌🤌🤌

@MikeMaragni

3 жыл бұрын

@@terradraca lol

@plzletmebefrank

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who has to chop firewood every year for heating... Yeah, recoil shock from swinging choppy things into solid things isn't fun.

I always appreciate it when people present this sort of information in a measured, cautious way; and make sure that the audience knows when they are presenting very well established facts, and when it is just the presenters theories and guesswork. Humility is worth its weight in gold in this regard. Cheers :)

Also when a flexible weapon "wraps around" the point of impact it accelerates the tip to far greater speed and therefore greater impact.

@TheGallantDrake

2 жыл бұрын

you aren't as far from the point of rotation though, the "acceleration" is just a result of the reduced radius. You don't magically get more momentum, in fact you lose some because some of the mass has stopped moving.

The way I see it, whenever someone writes that something did not exist AT ALL, and does so very authoritatively, and without leaving room for uncertainty, they are more than likely full of shit.

@_maliciousIntent

2 жыл бұрын

What is your reason?

@why3011

2 жыл бұрын

@@_maliciousIntent i think the reason is that it's hard to have an original idea, and it's very likely every blunt weapon we can think of was already thought of when they were actually using them

@bigd5899

2 жыл бұрын

@@_maliciousIntent you are really naive if you think no one has ever thought about a flail for 300.000 years. i made one when i was like eight, from some braided tree fibres a rock and a stick. The average cave drawing and even the paint from over 20 thousand years ago are more complex than what we teach our kids at school today, they were more creative than you might think.

@zachg.4251

2 жыл бұрын

Hey that's part of the plot ot Attack On Titan!

@jackwalters3928

2 жыл бұрын

Laser guns most certainly did not exist AT ALL in medieval times and I'm adamant about it. There's no room for uncertainty.

The multi-flailed variant makes me think this might have been the "less-than-lethal" cat of nine tails. Like, would that have been used by knights quelling riots or arresting a resisting criminal?

@jaojao1768

3 жыл бұрын

I have seen a theory that those types of flails were used by clergy when defending the local population or Church property, ideally without killing anyone

@robertharris6092

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaojao1768 like the sohei. That would often use the tetsubo since it technically didnt draw blood.

@samhansen9771

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, when I saw that I said "that's a whip!" out loud

@spicymeatballs2thespicening

2 жыл бұрын

Late af but was looking for this comment

@raycearcher5794

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaojao1768 I'd buy that, especially in places where flagellants or public lashing are common. Like, you're pilfering silver chalices from the local cathedral, then in come a couple of lay priests with big 3-headed chain bludgeons like "time for some penance, BROTHER," you're gonna get out of there pretty fast.

Great video Skal. Here's a suggestion: why don't you interview a medieval weapons museum (or collection) curator on the topic? It seems that all too often (or just plain always) the people that manage and study the actual primary sources are left entirely out. It would make a great fun video, just slightly more on the divulgative side.

The thing I think that requires more data is risk vs. reward, humans make MANY risky weapons (explosives are the best example), but they use these risky weapons because of their potential. It's not about the fact these weapons are dangerous to the user, it's about whether or not the reward is worth the risk. I liked the part about handshock though, I never thought about flails reducing the "handshock" factor. It might actually reduce risk!

If you've been using a flail every year since you were like thirteen I suspect it would be a much more natural choice for a weapon, and you'd be much more confident about reliably hitting what you want to hit.

@McHobotheBobo

3 жыл бұрын

Been threshin' grain since I was twelve, come my 20th year my lord had my hand thresh his enemies like chaff

@VoresD

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of times people tend to overly focus on the epicenters of technology and wealth when looking "What worked and what not". If people out there elsewhere have been using flail like instruments and whips to defend themselves from wildlife and occasional unruly traveler then weaponizing the fail doesn't seem like a stretch at all. It's a lot about what people were familiar with and how much resources they had at hand. Could they have preferred something else? Possibly but wants and haves might not meet To illustrate if you have played any video game with different weapons and came across a weapon with really good stats but you are either incapable of using or have really low skill on the weapon type making it useless and you go "If on I had skills to use this weapon" or "If only it was X weapon type instead" you just might be medieval peasant that was kidnapped and put into Matrix

@a_lethe_ion

3 жыл бұрын

Also the farmers used flails for the wheat, to separate the weat corns from the spelt. (dreschflegel) when you use that shit anyway, it can't have been that bad

From now on, every time I see a Warrior Priest using a flail, I'm gonna assume he calls it a holy water sprinkler.

@M.M.83-U

3 жыл бұрын

Only if he's french or italian.

@tims9723

3 жыл бұрын

@The Hittite came here to say this exact thing!

@nunyabiznes33

3 жыл бұрын

I've always imagined fantasy priests using a large mace in the form of the sprinkler. Not lethal on humans but deal heavy damage on undead and demons.

For anyone interested in more Sources to learn about medieval flail weapons: Search for Mangual. In general, but Björn Rüther (German HEMA-ist) also made a relatively recent video about the use of the Mangual, a 3 Chained two-handed flail, wich was used similar to a Spadone/Montante/Two Handed Sword/Schlachtschwert. Its fascinating to look at, I think it looks quite beautiful (Because of the Montate like Spins :D)

I created a Hussite flail as well, super effective, works great. I created a single hand flail too, and using it, like you would use an axe, with continued movement, it works. Moving it like that, also cuts down on the user being in danger.

18:43 sir chicken Knight is the best Knight in the world and nobody can argue with that

@stefanfranke5651

3 жыл бұрын

Did you notice how hard he chokes the neck of his co... I mean rooster? I wonder if this has a deeper meaning.

@thelegendaryklobb2879

3 жыл бұрын

I will call him "the Cock Knight"

@makkasweet5011

3 жыл бұрын

@@thelegendaryklobb2879 a noble name

@arnvonsalzburg5033

3 жыл бұрын

@@thelegendaryklobb2879 his real name was Richard, but his friends called him D*ck

@Wastelandman7000

3 жыл бұрын

Annnd I'm hearing the minstrels singing the song of Sir Robin in Monty Python and the Holy Grail now LOL

Me as a Kid: Man, Flails are cool! Me as a Teen: Man it sucks that flails are so impractical and probably not real Me now: Ah fuck yeah! Flail are coming back!

@acediadekay3793

3 жыл бұрын

I never gave up on flails, and I never will 🙂

@VioletDeathRei

3 жыл бұрын

*"***** your shield bro!"

@widdershins5383

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve always loved flails lol from when I first saw them all the way, who cares if they’re historically inaccurate, they’re gawddamn badass lol

Just an idle thought while looking at the tapestry depictions of flails, and your comment that multiple-ended flails seemed to predominate. Could these depictions be intended to show the whirling movement of a single chain, rather than a triple-headed flail?

Here in Asia, we have single hand flail on display in museum, it has no spikes and the chain is short. It is usually displayed with an soldier with shield in armor

Everybody: it's a useless weapon, your gonna hurt yourself more the enemy For Honor Conquer: Hold my sword

If something "didn't exist" then why did we find so many examples of it from so many different time periods? Even if it wasn't as widespread as more simple designs like maces or spears, there must be some amount of practicality for so many different designs and experimental versions of them to be made again and again throughout history.

@qwormuli77

3 жыл бұрын

Just the depictions and examples in literature aren't a basis for proof on it's on, considering we do have "historical evidence" of existing dragons from all seven continents. It's the availability of surviving specimens that suggests that they were made and had some type of use. The practicality also isn't given on novel enough findings, as we have made impractical stuff for as long as we've existed. But yeah, they probably did have a use and were made for that use across large areas of the world.

@Xaxp

3 жыл бұрын

@@qwormuli77 I was mainly talking about surviving examples of flails. Though to be fair, manuscripts are only the second best way we can know for sure what was used and how, but unfortunately all of the people who invented those techniques or learned them firsthand have been dead for centuries.

@tims9723

3 жыл бұрын

Just like the pyramids…

@positroll7870

2 жыл бұрын

Me thinks this "controvery" is limited to the Anglo world, mostly. You'll find enough examples in old German castles. Unlike English knights and men at arms, German ones tended to fight on horseback. Not that many examples survive, of course, because the flail originated from a peasant working tool. Thus, in medieval times the flail (long or short) was considered a "unritterliche", unknightly weapon In the HRE, like the crossbow. Good for Hussites and peasants, but a true noble? Nah. So besides some robber barons, non-noble (but fully armored) men at arms were much more likely to wield them. Men at arms dont have their own castles, normally. Which meant they were less likely to survive the centuries in some family arms collection. That goes double, as those weapons werent works of art like good swords, but as utilitarian as they come. During the middle ages, steel was relatively scarce. Low quality wrought or cast iron did the job well enough for a flail, so nobody had any qualms about reusing the metal for other purposes when times changed. And one major change that happened in the HRE in the mid 15-hundreds was the "industrial revolution" taking place in metalurgy and metalworking in general, due to more and more water power being used to drive huge furnaces, hammers and mining equipment. Production numbers for high quality (mild and hard) steel shot up exponentially (Austria exported 1,5 million knifes / year to the Ottomans before Ferdinand I put in an embargo; not too successfull thanks to smuggling via Poland). Which made the 16th centrury all-metal flails possible. By that time, the knight had lost his role to heavy cav (cuirassiers) who didnt have any qualms about using flails whenever it seemed advantagous. Which is why you find lots of those surviving. This German book from 1893 has a whole chapter on flails, tracing them through history, back to the Huns. Starting at p 792. archive.org/details/diekriegswaffeni00demmuoft/page/n3/mode/1up

@eyepet2010

2 жыл бұрын

@@qwormuli77 With all due respects, it does. People on the XIX century discovered ancient classic statues and , on their theory, they never had color, but, guess what, they WERE painted, what they did ? they took the fucking paint off to validate their theories, damaging centuries of history. We can't know for sure if nobody ever used a flail or a viking ever used two shields for defend himself, you can't , i can't, he can't , we can't do that. And PLUS, he admits they were used, of course they were, my good man, history doesn't covers :THIS happened and THIS DIDN'T (well, certainly tanks weren't used on the ottoman campaing agaisn't slavic kingdoms for example, and the mughals dind't had ak-47's... but you get me

The weapon is indeed very practical. You hit the top of the shield, and the chain and ball reaches around and strikes the arm or head of anyone behind the shield. Or if your opponent is behind a wall and you must get over it, knowing that he hides just behind the corner. But certainly against shields.

Re: 14:25 and the civilian use of a weight on a string. Both the monkey fist and this are types of slungshot. Literally a weight, slung on a string. Sailors used to make versions of this that ranged from a flexible cosh, sap or blackjack all the way up to what you describe in the video, which is to say something that can be wrapped around the wrist and hidden in the sleeve. They also called them life preservers. Ashleys book of knots shows a couple examples (drawn) at 3714 (22 inches long) and 3721 (32 inches long). Not military, but interesting sidenote to this topic!

As a long time flail fan I appreciate that someone finally gave it a fair shake. I loved your previous videos but it's very rare to find anyone in the HEMA community to give especially the one handed flail a fair shake

@stefanfranke5651

3 жыл бұрын

I myself just started HEMA last year and have some basic understanding. So when you see the footage of the russian guy, you'll notice that in order to not hit himself while recovering after a strike (or a miss), he has to swing the ballend in a wide arc around and behind his body to lower it's momentum which costs time and leaves him wide open to just say stab him with a spear. So at least you'd need a shield and that still leaves me sceptical of it's practicallity in foot combat. From horseback, I guess, it's a whole different scenario because when you charge very fast on for example fleeing opponents, you can lean out and use the extra momentum of the horses speed. And when the momentum of the flailend is exhausted after impact you can quickly reengage. But since very few HEMA practitioners ride horses (or could ever afford them), I guess no one considered to use short flails. Also I don't remember any treatises mentioning them, but I could be wrong. Anyway, flails definitely rock and I'm planning to build a "hussite" pole flail to test it some day in the club (and there are luckily some historical treatises for it).

@nevisysbryd7450

3 жыл бұрын

@@stefanfranke5651 I think it was less about speed so much as the need for quick recovery for parries and successive attacks is comparatively a non-factor one horseback. Mounted opponents would remain within striking distance of each other for a much smaller window of time, both absolutely and proportionally. With that much time in-between strikes, their slowness in recovery would be irrelevant a lot of the time.

@_XR40_

3 жыл бұрын

There are flail fans???

@edwardpaulsen1074

3 жыл бұрын

@@stefanfranke5651 Indeed, and that is one of the failings I see within HEMA... their extreme focus on certain types of fighting and almost complete disdain for others... Everyone likes to toss shade at some weapons and their "practicality" but I am quite certain that there were quite specific uses for them.... there are far stranger weapons that we can conclusively prove existed... but therein lies the rub of certain "enthusiasts"... they cannot accept that they might be wrong... and that's when an islander with a wood club with some embedded shards of glass or shell comes up and lops off their fool head... LOL

@positroll7870

2 жыл бұрын

Well, how much HEMA guys are there that actually fight on horseback? Which is where it belongs. And for knightly re-enactors, it doesnt work too well, either, because in continental Europe it was considered (like the cross bow) a unknightly weapon, descended from a farming tool ... So it's only really fitting for a re-enactor of a non-noble man at arms. Or maybe a knight on a crusade against the heathen ...

I love our KZread Medieval community. Skall, Lindy, Modern History, Tod's Workshop, Shad, Metatron, Scholagladiatoria. All fantastic content and all fantastic followers.

@alterangel

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget scholagladiatoria

@sirwi11iam

3 жыл бұрын

@@alterangel oh shit, how could I forget Matt Easton!

@stefanfranke5651

3 жыл бұрын

As a follower I say, Thank you! :>

Really one of my favorite type of video from your channel ! Informative, entertaining and not clamining having the truth. Keep up the good work!

I also found the Korean pole flail interesting. Especially the idea of using it from horseback. Again, useful against guys hiding behind shields.

Finally, evidence of the chicken knight!

@rickanderson8683

3 жыл бұрын

I like to call him the "Cassowary Cavalier"...

We're so obsessed with efficiency and practicality that we throw out a more simple medieval mindset and a lack of access to information (in comparison to the Internet) in that time. Imagine two medieval guys chatting about their weapons: - hey, my uncle have this cool looking whip that he uses against wolves on his farm - yo, let's put a chunk of iron on it and go smash some peasants with it in the next war, it sure will work and my brother will be so jealous that I've got this new cool weapon Basically you can get away with a barely working weapon that you happen to love so much so you wouldn't stick to the longsword. And also that's exactly how new weapons were invented (I think). (except flails have actually been used throughout the history and, turns out, were quite practical, at least in a sense of smashing peasants)

@tommerker8063

3 жыл бұрын

everything is effective against peasants. they are.... peasants. the realy refined weapon designes came from making weapons to counter armor. and it's pretty safe to say that those weapons didn't come to be because 2 drunks just came up with some brilliant drunk idea. ;)

@anilin6353

3 жыл бұрын

Also any regular blacksmith could make a fail vs a swordsmith

@matthiuskoenig3378

3 жыл бұрын

'more simple medieval mindset' you are seriously underestimating medieval people

@theultimateevil3430

3 жыл бұрын

@@matthiuskoenig3378 although there were professionals, there were also dumb ideas, as well as professionals willing to try them, that's my point.

@reptiloidmitglied2930

3 жыл бұрын

I guess it started with peasants bringing their farming tools into war because they had nothing else and over the time people came up with ideas how to weaponize them.

I completely agree, having both trained and sparred with some various flails. I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about the lack of handshock, especially in the one handed cavalry applications. And yeah, you can do some wicked binds with a long chained flail. I ripped a sword straight out of a lightly held grip

One benefit of the flail in combat that never gets mentioned is that if you use them in an flowing combination of strikes your motion does not get stopped the moment you hit your target, you just keep on with your combo and the weights will follow, unlike for example an hammer where the momentum gets broken up as soon as you hit your target.

If something looks weird in one country then it probably looks perfectly normal in another country

@mikevanraven

3 жыл бұрын

You see those warriors from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords. Curved. Swords.

@VoresD

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikevanraven Yes yes, now get out of the door frame I need to go

@mikevanraven

3 жыл бұрын

@@VoresD Let me guess... someone stole your sweetroll?

@VoresD

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikevanraven Uhm... Yes... Someone stole MY sweet roll. It was mine, until someone stole it

I wish the time travelers hadn't left so many decorative weapons behind.

@richhartnell6233

3 жыл бұрын

I left a glock on a table in 1017. Still worried future historians will find it

@plzletmebefrank

3 жыл бұрын

@@richhartnell6233 If they do, everyone will just say it's a hoax anyways.

@PKAmedia

2 жыл бұрын

Look as much archeological evidence there is for the existence death space lazers in the 13th century, due to the lack of any wide spreed way of producing of storing electricity at the time, I Just don't think their was any practical way they would of ever of actually been used in battle. I mean Possibly they just threw them at people I guess, but really a bow and arrow or spear would of been much more effective, but if it's all you have available you use what you use.

"i made a Husite flail myself" -Extremly happy and proud Czech noises.

Thanks a lot for this video I've been waiting for a video on flails because there is so much contradictory info on the web about these weapons.

i can hear shad already "USE STICK!"

@River-pg1uk

3 жыл бұрын

long girthy STCK!

@GunnyStilgar

3 жыл бұрын

A flail will take Shad's stick away from him and then beat him so bad his grandmother will retroactively abort his lineage.

@AusMarkus

3 жыл бұрын

Stick good!

@MaaZeus

3 жыл бұрын

"Eh, my wrist and elbow joints are totally fucked up from continous impact shocks. I think I'll put the business end of my club on a chain for a small buffer... There, perfect!"

@victoriazero8869

3 жыл бұрын

HAND. SHOCK.

I always carry a military flail everywhere, the staff could get longer/shorter depending on the temperature and excitement

@FrauleinMuller999

3 жыл бұрын

I protest the lenght

@Gibberish97

3 жыл бұрын

Took me a moment

@barriolimbas

3 жыл бұрын

2 balls attached to a staff actually

@virtuallyreal5849

3 жыл бұрын

My are balls have metal spikes through them, should I be concerned?

5:00 there's a vid on YT showing an okinawan budo master explaining exactly this with the nunchaku: you have to go trough the entire movement, as if it was a cutting motion with a sword . If you stop at target then it'll bounce back, if you push trough you're safe. vid is titled 【NUNCHAKU】The Complete Guide! An ancient Weapon in Okinawa

Great video. When you were talking about rigid weapons and showed driving the hammer forward this can also be done with a flexible weapon. This could end up either shooting the weight forward in a more of a 'throw' like strike or whip the chain around the end of the handle in a smaller, but much faster, arc. Which would depend on the chain's length, the weight and technique of course. The mechanics of flexible weapons can get really interesting, and I find it helpful to think of how whips or slings work as well.

another advantage is less probability to break since the shaft does not receive the impact-shock ?

@Wastelandman7000

3 жыл бұрын

Very good point. Also the Russian gent showed how to use the chain to parry a sword. The handle didn't take any impact at all.

I once watched an archaeology program. There was an interview with one of the members on the dig team. His shirt said, "Possible Ritual Use." Gotta love that dry humour within the community. "iT's CeReMoNiAL."

@remittanceman4685

2 жыл бұрын

Translation from archeological to English: We haven't got a clue what this is for.

I agree with your assessment Skall. Flails were rare, flashy and a novelty. It is that novelty that made them a popular decoration in later periods.

Looking at ww1 ww2 trench warfare ... If they built them , used them it must have been somewhat effective in combat and as a moral item

@brassbucket1998

Жыл бұрын

difference is, ww1 soldiers didn't have metal plate armor like the medieval soldiers did. Way easier to hit something squishy with a flail than something strong that bounces the head back on your hand

18:50 Final Fantasy was history cannon after all.

If you are wearing armour and flail bounce at you, this will be a minor impact because most of the energy was delibered at target (sorry for bad english)

@billyoldman9209

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, on most pictures it's used by knights in full plate anyway.

@catiasantos9470

3 жыл бұрын

just like grabing the blade of a sword to hit with the pommel. its all about your gear loadout =)

@positroll7870

3 жыл бұрын

@@billyoldman9209 full plate and gambeson underneath as padding. Also steel gauntlets...

Super interesting explanation, thanks!

thank you for the inspiring video, as always entertaining and educational

Modern flails are still in use. They are generally called "smileys," are a chain with a lock or two, and are often illegal.

@TeaSerpent

2 жыл бұрын

Most of my train rider friends that carry a smiley use a bandana with a lock tied on the end. They are lighter, makes less noise and can easily be quickly untied if the police are coming.

@shakti666

2 жыл бұрын

just put a lock in a fucking sock how the fuck is that illegal

@nedinnis6752

2 жыл бұрын

@@shakti666 Illegal but essentially impossible to enforce

@camsterdam3896

2 жыл бұрын

Smileys... Master lock in a sock... Or bandana... Hehehehehe

@MB-yk1qk

2 жыл бұрын

@@nedinnis6752 Not preventive but when the catch you using one, you will get an extra sentence.

I really dont think it is far off, that there was a farm boy, who was the one guy doing the flailing on the wheat all day and season. And when that guy gets drafted, he says "fuck this, I never used a sword in my life, I just take my flail"

@WhoThaCazer

3 жыл бұрын

agree that wheat whacker is not worst improvised weapon.

@FloodExterminator

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, when peasants were drafted they usually used modified agricultural tools or even just using them trait up such as say a woodcutter's axe or a pitchfork, so your theory is very plausible.

@pingo6874

2 жыл бұрын

exactly that kind of kid who would use a Nunchaku today

@bilibiliism

2 жыл бұрын

also swords were expensive. in medieval time making a piece of sharp metal 1 meter long and strong is beyond village smith capacity and need special skill.

@ThomasKrul

2 жыл бұрын

That's exactly what happened during the Hussite wars. They were incredibly effective.

Great video. Very concisely, hit all the big points. Now I'm curious to test out some of those odd flail designs with multiple balls. I have a few theories on how they could be functional, but I'll need to experiment.

Amazing breakdown as usual, thank you!

I always thought the multiple headed flails were the artists way of depicting motion, like it's spinning so fast it looks like multiple

13:18 now that looks like a fine ceremonial scepter

I read a book in my youth that stated the term "Morning Star" did not describe the weapon itself (being a mace or flail) but rather the pattern of spikes on the head. The book stated that Morning Star described a round head with a spike pattern that resembled a six pointed star. They also describe the "Holy water Sprinkler" as being a more elongate or cylindrical head with 2 or 3 rows of 4 spikes each. The author named a few other Mace/Flail spike patterns but I cannot remember them nor can I remember the title of the book (it was from my grammar school library) neither can I make any claims to it's accuracy. This is simply a interesting little tidbit of info I picked up as a child and this is the first time in over 30 years where it seemed relevant to mention. WooHoo, exciting day LOL. Great vid though @Skallgrim Love your stuff, keep it up :)

Really interesting analysis. I've been on the fence about them too, but you're completely right in saying that they were most likely rare, but still had some usage. Like you, I also think it's hard to believe a scenario where every single one throughout every part of the world was created solely as decoration at later dates or for ceremonies. I also want to take the time to appreciate the time and research you had to put in to make this video along with your other videos. People shouldn't take it for granted or underestimate it, so thank you!

Just started, and I hope we shall see some Hussites, or my Czech heart shall be broken. 😭😁😁

@MedievalSolutions

3 жыл бұрын

Don't worry, he's used one (I mean, the okovaný cep, not a hussite) before.

@Xaiff

3 жыл бұрын

You must be thrilled right now. 😂😂

@hafor2846

3 жыл бұрын

Look, here are some: 🔥🔥🔥

@NeoMicy

3 жыл бұрын

Did you czech people learn something in shool about the Kingdom of Bohemia and its role in the HRE?

@PavelKahun

3 жыл бұрын

@@NeoMicy Some, but not that much in detail. Probably because HRE was such a complicated mess. :D

I'm pleasantly surprised to see you talking about Asian "Dog Beaters" There were actually quite a variety of weapons made using those small heads going back over 2000 years in Asia. Some of them used short sticks that curved forward right at the front tip. A very short leather thong would be attached at the end of the tip and one of the small weights shown around 15:10. As mentioned there were also various other more whip like set ups. IUt varied a lot by where in Asia it was and the period. For example 18th - 20th century Tibetans made and carried "dog beaters" which where in the shape of square metal rods that flared out into a bigger head at the end. These would be attached to braided leather thongs and carried in the sleeves or pocket to protect from dog attacks. Tibetan culture was largely a herding culture and herders kept numerous Tibetan mastifs to guard their animals. These dogs were territorial and huge and often attacked strangers or people they didn't like. Of course there are also plenty of records of these being the standard weapon for brawls during the period since most people carried them. Some Tibetan dog beater where very short but others had a longer rod sect that flared more abruptly at the end making them also useable as very short truncheons. The part about the weight on cord kept up the sleeve as hidden weapons is also interesting. I assume you were talking about Russians doing this? This was actually very common in China and is still preserved in a few traditional martial arts. In China the term Meteor Hammer covers a very large variety of flexible weapons with square or round heads. The Chinese differentiated between meteor hammers and other flails, which where called various names such as branch tip staff or other things. Some of them flails became quite small being a short metal handle around 10 inches with a very short bit of chain and a heavy metal chunk at the end. These were made specifically to be concealed and were carried up the sleeves like some small meteor hammer types also were (ie like the ones that looped around the wrists that were just mentioned) Well these actually came in all kinds of sizes and variations in China. The one thing that seems to have been extremely rare in China was flails with multiple chains going to different weights. I have seen a couple but they seem to be very rare. The only one I can think of off the top of my head from older texts is shown in a Song dynasty manual and have some kind of blades or hooks on the ends of the chains and was meant as a military parade weapon. There were a few other strange ones like a pole flail with a heavy double edged sword blade instead of a weight. That one is questionable about whether it was a parade weapon or a folk street performance weapon or what. Although there are supposedly some mentions of them being used by minority groups in southwestern China. There is also another weapon that is basically a 3 foot staff with the body of a braided leather whip about 4 feet long attached to it, then a heavy dagger blade or spike was attached to the whip. This was a folk weapon used in northwestern China and was basically a Chinese shepherd's staff whip with a weight or blade attached to the end. Sheep and goat herding were major occupations in this area so it was something people were used to using and only needed to add a weight to. Although you are talking about Russian and central Asian weapons at that point, picture at 14:45 is actually showing Chinese meteor hammer variations. Also a couple of the heads shown at 15:10 are using Chinese or Chinese influenced designs although most are central Asian or eastern European designs. The Meteor Hammers at 15:27 are modern fakes though. Double ended meteor hammers on a rope or chain like that are found in old Chinese texts which describe their use with one of them being for creating an opening and the other retained behind for a power blow. However the double headed meteor hammer really became popular for use in marketplace demonstrations and folk parades. That context had a very different style of use similar to modern "flow spinning" "puppy hammers" or stuff like that. Fire meteor hammers also became very popular in marketplace / street performance demonstrations and in parades and festivals. The old picture you showed at 15:32 is of someone practicing the performance style of double head meteor hammer. The use of flails is described in Chinese military texts going back to the 4th or 5th century BC where longer pole flails are recommended for use in defending crenelated walls during siege warfare. Later in the 11th century AD shorter flails are recommended for use on horseback, a tactic noted in the text as being adopted from central Asian nomads.

As Skall said, if you fear to hit yourself with a flail bouncing back, you can minimize this risk by wearing a gauntlet. And as a weapon used in wars (and because of that not carried around all the time like a messer or a sword), the chance of equipping with a gauntlet in the same time is quite high.

on the point of "back shock" the reason one has full wood handles on a Axe is exactly that reason and a Good hickory handle makes a big difference and " back shock" might be because of bad Quality

@victoriazero8869

3 жыл бұрын

Hand shock is really bad issues on anything hardwood.

@rokka7188

3 жыл бұрын

Hickory handles also have that problem, I recall that when most of my native people used birch handles, like they always did with axes (and most tools), they found that when the imported hickory handles came, they were bad at hand shock. Though usually birch handles were also curved, not sure if that has anything to do with that.

@darkplasmo7921

3 жыл бұрын

@@rokka7188 i am definitely not a expert and i don't even know what wood all my axes have i just know wen you get a really good one Shock is no Problem and with a 20$ it is

I've had a dual head, single hand flail since I was a kid and I've never hit myself with it.

@tunafish1289

3 жыл бұрын

You sound like you had a fun childhood

@NieroshaiTheSable

3 жыл бұрын

Shad disagrees. You most DEFINITELY did. Constantly.

@AnotherDuck

3 жыл бұрын

@@NieroshaiTheSable I get the impression that if you have a ball on a chain rather than a stick with a much shorter chain, the risk of it bouncing back is lower, since it's not as guided by the much shorter pivot point. Just speculating, though.

That was the best flail video discussion I have seen. You have not gotten bogged down in the hand damage issue but have instead looked why it would be used. This has lead to a compelling reason why the chain being longer than the handle probably doesn't matter. In fact I think you make a very good case for the weapon. I think that you have made an excellent case for it. I had never even considered the lack of hand shock. I think that with the ability to go around a shield makes it a very useful weapon. A mace cannot hit around a shield. Neither can a sword or spear. That kind of advantage is enough to make it useable and worthwhile.

Love this one. Glad you are brining up the term "Holy water sprinker." IT seems like a big problem that the people back in the day weren't as concerned with definitions as we are. "This is a Guisarme" seems like it gets applied to a great many weapons. It helps to point out that the way they used words back in 'ye olden times' was a bit more general. Like an old reference to arrowheads of "Iron well steeled.' Today we try to be exact, in those times not so much. Also, I notice you're bringing up the meteor hammer. The Japanese had a short chain called the Kusari-fundo, weighted at both ends, and it seems to have been for samurai who expected to be in a fight in a place it wouldn't be appropriate to spill blood. IE, guarding a location with religious significance. p.s. At 18:42 you say this isn't evidence people rode on chickens. I think we need to accept that it is, and there were massive numbers of knights mounted on large birds who mostly used flails to avoid hitting the wings of their mounts. The flail would allow hitting someone who was trying to hide under the wing of your chicken. The bird cavalry was especially important in the war with the snail people, and if it wasn't for them, you'd have grown up speaking snail.

16:41 -flailtanks are still in use, for example Sisu RA-140 DS. :)

@StevenFox80

3 жыл бұрын

or the German Keiler

Imagine getting hit by one of those Korean flails from horseback...ouch

@senounatsuru6453

3 жыл бұрын

Depending on where you get hit, strong chance you don't feel a thing.

@virtuallyreal5849

3 жыл бұрын

@@senounatsuru6453 lol, cuz u be ded af

That transition to horseback was out of the blue but so very useful a tool for understanding. Well done.

A very long time ago, 1970s the Society for Creative Anachronism experimented with chain maces. After figuring out that they are NOT Morning Stars or Morgensterns we settled on chain mace thinking that a flail was either several weights or a larger rectangular one. We found that considerable training is required to not hit yourself. A chain mace partially nulifies a shield since the chain bending around the shield does not slow the ball much. With the right chain length a chain mace is also good for disarming. (Throw away mace and sword while doing a shield rush to gain time to draw another weapon while your opponent is recovering). We gave up on chain maces very quickly though. By the rules we used to person must feel a blow to a knowledge it. We couldn't find a balance between being felt and doing actual damage.

I always thought Flails where a good side arm for helping a warrior to capture a shield arm or trap a weapon. Good video.

18:44 😂😂 Sir Chicken Knight with the mighty flail

Duuude! Your hair is so pretty in this video! I love it!

I might fool myself, but I don't think the way you described how physics work when attacking with a flail seems odd to me. The fact that the chain is a flexible element makes me think that it must allow the ball/stick to accelerate a bit faster than it would at the end of a stick, though it would lose a bit more force due to the same chain when hitting it's target, even if you follow through. That's just how I see it working in my brain, I'm far from being a physicist so I'm probably wrong, but your video made me want to know more ! Anyway, as always, excellent video, it had been a long time since I didn't watch one of your those and it's always a pleasure ! Happy New Year btw, may your channel continue to expend and be one of the most entertaining and educational channels on the subject !

I remember in school a long time ago reading up on an either Apache, Comanche, or Navajo weapon that was essentially a fist sized rock wrapped in leather and attached to a long strap I believe it was called (sorry for the spelling over 30 years ago) a Pamagan.