Miguel O'Hara is basically doing the trolley problem where one person is on the tracks and you can pull the lever to save that one person but doing so will destroy the entire universe including that one person you saved. So he stands by and won't pull the lever (nor will he let anyone else pull the lever). Meanwhile Miles says "nah I'm gonna find a way to derail this trolley" Miguel is logical but Miles dares to hope for a better way.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, that’s exactly what he was doing. Your comment describes my point very well.

@kristynab.6539

Жыл бұрын

Love this summary!

@dranixrush3306

4 ай бұрын

But that's the thing, daring to hope by doing "stupid" shit can go so wrong. And can hardly be justified in some cases. Miguel had more of basis in his theory. The MORE logical option was/is the best way to go.

@zaail3norsumidk

Ай бұрын

​@@dranixrush3306that's my issue with the movie and it's fans, they try so hard to devalue all of miguel's motives when the question should really be; is this a risk you're willing to take to "save everyone"? which honestly can be seen both ways, it doesn't matter what SPIDERMAN believes or thinks because this situation is bigger than "the idea of spiderman".

@dranixrush3306

Ай бұрын

@@zaail3norsumidk I mostly agree. But the logic of the Spider-Men in this case is heavily flawed. One life doesn't equal to or outweigh the many. I was listening to the point Miles and others were making, and my brain just gave out. I understand Miles being reluctant, however, at the moment he had nothing to stand on.

i agree that neither of them are morally dubious in their motivations. what i do think is that miguel's anger issues kicked him harder than miles ever could and that his behavior during the train scene was way over the line. man was clearly capable of restraining him and still has his paralyzing bite; there was no good reason for the ranting and raving. a reason to be sure, but not a morally benign one.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, Miguel is quite different from the other Spider-Men. He wasn’t bitten by a radioactive spider. He’s a geneticist that had a machine that can alter DNA. His boss, in an attempt to kill him, snuck a spider in the machine with him in it. Instead of killing him, it re-wrote his DNA to have spider traits. That’s why he doesn’t have the spider-sense and why he has things like fangs. He’s literally feral and aggressive, the green liquid he was injecting into his arm was a drug that was specifically designed to keep him more tame.

@anonymouslesbian1282

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal oh i agree that he has circumstances which explain it. dunno if they're exactly that or not (i've seen a lotta confusion about the injection even among comic fans so idk anymore), but a reason doesn't suddenly make an action righteous.

@CK-solutions

Жыл бұрын

It's about fighting styles. Miguel has bulk and power. Miles has agility and speed. No-one in the Spider society could land a strike on Miles, but they all took turns as a group. Miguel had the chemical endurance to pursue and strike continually, but kept missing the shot. So he's going to be the most frustrated out of the group. Naturally when he finally lands the strike to pin Miles on the train, it's going to be unrestrained. Because he now has AMPLIFIED chemicals coursing through his veins - similar to the hulk. Here's how 2099 still had hope he could reason with Miles though. Precisely because he didn't get out the fangs. Miguel didn't want to reason with the Vulture, he just wanted to take him out. But he restrained himself (and Miles - when he finally could) to talk. 2099 led strike teams, almost every day, so was top of his game physically. But struggled to convince Miles of the right thing to do, psychologically. So he laid out all the facts - you don't belong here, you're an anomaly, you don't know what you're doing. People should really try to understand they're watching an action movie, with little to no fighting experience. What they consider unnecessary, is the daily life of a professional fighter, or military soldier. Fight to win. Talking = orders.

@anonymouslesbian1282

Жыл бұрын

@@CK-solutions i agree that the force he exerts while restraining miles is fine. they're both superhuman and the only thing that might have been a risk to miles' health was when miguel used his elbow blades. i don't think i even commented on the martial aspects of the fight, but hey. something we agree on. however, calling him an anomaly and telling him that he doesn't belong isn't "laying out the facts". it's an attack on miles' ego spurred by anger and frustration that unfairly places the blame for peter's death, spot's mutilation and 42's crime ridden state on miles. all of the aforementioned events were caused by kingpin and alchemax.

@CK-solutions

Жыл бұрын

@@anonymouslesbian1282 It's 2099's brief to shut down anomaly activity. Not bring them up to speed with how he's managing different villains. That's a huge conflict of interest, and it was Gwen who put it on the table for 2099 to manage - against his wishes. Gwen did what she wanted - bring her friend along. Miles gonna do his own thing too. But at the end of the day, it's Miguel who has to live with the death toll on his watch again, if they screw up. Because he's been placed in charge of managing it all. Those stats, spit facts from a list of priority. Not an attempt to bruise ego.

When two nerds have different correct answers.

I think that Miguel's universe wasn't destroyed because he stopped a canon event. I think it was because that universe had two Miguel Ohara's. Miguel Ohara was already dead in that universe, and when this Miguel Ohara came to that universe, it threw off the balance. This man was already dead before he came to the universe, he didn't prevent a death, he just ignored it. Miles on the other hand can prevent a death, and if he can't he's not going to go ahead and replace his dad with another one from another universe. Basically, I think that if you replace a person that is already dead, and live their life like it was normal, there will be a collapse in the universe. However, if you just prevent a death that might happen, then it won't do anything.

@OctoMaple

Жыл бұрын

What about Pavitr Prabhakars dad? They prevented that and yet his universe in now unstable and has a low chance of being fixed

@turbojax07

Жыл бұрын

@@OctoMaple director Singh could die at any other time. I think the spot might be causing any other instability.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

That does sound plausible but i don’t think it would work like that. Miles prevented Singh from dying, which was the reason Pavitr’s universe was damaged. Also in the Spider Society, there had to have been multiple versions of the same character. Spider-Man Noir is another Peter Parker. Both him and Peter B Parker were in Miles’ universe and they weren’t damaging it. I think the reason why the universe ended when Miguel was in it was because Miguel staying dead was the canon event itself. The aftermath, his family grieving, etc was the canon event. But if he snuck himself in, his family wouldn’t grieve. He wouldn’t be buried, etc. That itself was most likely the canon event, that Miguel’s death and it’s aftermath but since he stopped all of that, that’s why the universe ended. Sure, Miguel was already did in that universe, but no one knew. Just him.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

@@turbojax07He could certainly die at any moment, but he was fated to die at that moment. And yeah, Spot definitely was causing some instability, but i think Miles preventing Singh’s death was like the tipping point for the universe.

@placeholder.

Жыл бұрын

Frankly this is the first thought that came into my mind but then again Peter B Parker technically replaced Earth-1610's Peter Parker in the first movie

Didn’t we all get the feels when Insomniac Spider man let aunt May die in order to reproduce the cure that would save the whole city? That’s what Spider man is about, making the most selfless decisions that other people can’t make, that’s exactly why I’m taking Miguel’s side in this situation (based on what we’ve been told so far in the movie). I get where Miles is coming from, and if I was in his situation I can’t say I would react differently. But still, I don’t think you can praise Insomniac Spider Man for making the selfless play and then proceed to think Miguel is in the wrong

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Spider-Man is not just about saving everyone, but just trying to save everyone even if they can’t. It’s an important part about the concept of Spider-Man. That you can’t save everyone. I think Insomniac would be on Miles’ side honestly. Not only does he already like Miles, but he completely understand what Miles is going through. Insomniac tried to save Aunt May and everyone, but he simply just couldn’t while Miguel doesn’t even try to save Jefferson, he goes out of his way to stop Miles from doing it.

@adamboy0559

Жыл бұрын

I think for his case he tried to save her but she wouldn’t let him as if she didn’t die the city would be in the same circumstance.

@joaolucasangelotto1098

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal great answer, and that’s exactly where my argument could fail, which is why I specified “based on what we’ve been told so far in the movie”, my whole point is made assuming Miguel is right about canon events and disrupting them means universes collapsing. Assuming Miguel is wrong and there is in fact a way to save Miles’ dad AND not have the universe go boom, then sure, that’s the best case scenario, but like I said, assuming Miguel isn’t lying or simply wrong about canon events, I’d think Insomniac Spidey would be on his side. And also, there is this fear of “trying to do both” among the Spider Society, cause failing would mean the death not only of the people they care for, but literally everyone else along with them. Still, great video and great points, and I’d like to know you opinion assuming Miguel is right. Respect 🫡

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal if that's the case then what makes Miguel have a point and worth siding with??

I’m siding with Miles here. You can’t save everybody, but you have to try to. Miguel straight up confirms that there are ways to prevent a universe unraveling after a canon event is broken, it’s not a 100% guarantee but it’s working for Pavitr, since we see him in the end looking completely fine. And there’s the point that the black hole in Pav’s universe is different from the way the other universe just glitched out of existence. And then there’s Gwen and Earth 42. Gwen’s universe is still active despite her dad quitting his job and not getting promoted to captain, and Earth 42 just straight up doesn’t have a Spiderman, breaking what is probably the biggest canon event of all, someone being bitten by the spider

@upsurge5541

2 ай бұрын

they said that they were actively trying to save it but his universe was still ripping itself apart from the sound of it it seemed they were only able to slow it down

So glad to find this channel, it’s great see channel that actually has fun talking about comics

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man that means a lot to me

I agree that purely based on principle, Miles is correct but in terms of realistic circumstances, Miguel’s decision ultimately carries more weight imo. Atleast based on our current understanding. When emergency medical services arrive at an accident they arrive with the intent to save and stabilize as many people as possible. However with limited resources and our current technology trying to save every life can and will result in more lives being lost. So they have triage care and label cases based on likelihood of survival. It’s cruel but based on our limitations it’s what we currently are able to do. Spider-Man is a superhero but like you mentioned in your video with clip, he can’t save everyone. We’re not gods, we simply can’t save everyone when our current abilities are so limited. I do agree though that their current limitations shouldn’t stop them from looking into separate options that could help current problems. Looking into alternate ways of saving lives in canon events without destroying alternate universes. But at the same time this kind of stuff can not be easy to approach. When the price that is paid with failure is possibly destroying an entire universe from existence.

@JaceNurcombe-lf8os

Жыл бұрын

But what about the universes falling without the canon event? What if Miguel is right than miles is?

@LelouchLamerouge

Жыл бұрын

@@JaceNurcombe-lf8os Have Miguel and the spider society ever let that universe's spiderman try to stop it? They seem to be interfering with the canon events to "guarantee" that spiderman exist. We have seen that "if" the original spiderman of said universe's affects the canon of their universe that it doesn't seem to be harmful i.e. SpiderGwen.

@omorinintendoswitchedition

Жыл бұрын

@@JaceNurcombe-lf8os at the end we see Gwen stop a canon event because her father quit before he became captain, meaning that he will no longer die. So it is possible to stop a canon event

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674

Жыл бұрын

@@omorinintendoswitchedition do we know what for sure? What if he still dies but canon event got altered slightly or. maybe Gwen's father was not meant to die

@orlandobritt1460

Жыл бұрын

ya the guy that take a dead version of his life not a good man

Tbh I think miles is making his own destiny he wasn’t meant to be Spider-Man so he also doesn’t need to follow what the normal Spider-Man have to witness. Because of this I don’t think he needs to let his dad die as he isn’t supposed to and the spot isn’t supposed to exist meaning him killing his dad would also be breaking a cannon event as he shouldn’t exist

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

That’s pretty clever. He straight up tells Miguel that he’s gonna do his own thing, meaning he will control his fate. And the biggest canon event for the spider-verse is becoming spider-man, which Earth 42 Miles is not. But canon events are a rather tricky and vague concept, so we can only hope everything can go right.

But Miles did lose someone, his uncle. And when he ends up in the wrong universe, he lost his dad, not his uncle. I feel like miles' canon event already happened

@_obi_wan_kenobi_

Жыл бұрын

there is not one canon evet think about it as pillars of a house i stand on multiple ones if some of the pillars are cracked the balance falls another example, peter lost his uncle that was a canon event and he also lost gwen stacy which was another canon event list goes on... its like a bridge thats been holded by multiple ropes

@randomuch

Жыл бұрын

@@_obi_wan_kenobi_ ok that makes sense. Did his uncle give him a version of "with great power comes great responsibility" speech in the first movie though? Just curious

@Thila-Thila

Жыл бұрын

@@randomuch "Just keep going" was one of Uncle Aaron's "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" speech

@CaptainQwazCaz

Жыл бұрын

@@randomuch its not just the uncle dying that is a canon event. a police captain dying is another canon event

@jarvishau

Жыл бұрын

and lost peter in his own universe too dont forgot

I feel like this is the whole point, we have villains, like the spot, and miguel, and even slightly gwen and peter B, but its hard to side with anybody because you can understand where everybody is coming from, miles just wants to be a hero and save his dad, miguel, from his own perspective, "knows" what happens when U break the canon, and doesnt want it to happen again with miles, idk about peter but gwen couldnt go back to her dad who pointed a gun at her when he realized shes spiderwoman, even thinkng she killed her best friend, so she had to leave to the spider society. And she doesnt want miles/his universe to die, so she thinks she has to let his dad die and not get distracted for the greater good. Its just really complicated which makes the series all the more emotional

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

I’d say the main villain is just Spot. Miguel, Gwen and Peter B are still heroes. if anything, this is a morality debate, with multiple different sides. It certainly does make it much more emotional too, and to me, it really shows you what type of people these characters really are.

“ who’s baby that really was” lmfaooooo

There's only ONE thing that Miguel did wrong, and it's completely unforgivable. One thing that no Hispanic should ever do in their life. It's an offense of the Highest order, and for that, the least he should get it's a smack on the head and a relentless attack by Hispanic Mothers all over with "La Chancla". The Horrendous act of dumping a perfectly good "Empanada" like it was some sort low grade piece of trash. That was Miguel's villainous moment, a crime in the Multiverse and he needs to pay for that! #neverdumpanempanada

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Mad disrespectful to throw away a perfectly good empanada, GIVEN to you too. Horrific.

@Joe-yz9ch

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think the spider society should kill Miguel for this. This will be the only time they'll justify killing because of how horrible this monster is.

@EternalRoman

Жыл бұрын

@@Joe-yz9ch Wait wait, death is not necessary for this transgression. The torment and horror Miguel would suffer by getting "La Chancla" would definitely set him straight, or cause irreparable psychological trauma as bad as the one he already has.

@EternalRoman

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal He needs the fear of "La Chancla" for that.

The spidersona video sounds like a good idea

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Idk if it will be the next video, i was thinking of making a cryptid video, but I definitely will be making a spider-so a video soon

Imagine how much crime is happening while all Spider people are hanging out in the Spider Society.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Probably an insane amount.

As someone who is team Miles I tend to toon out when people don't get Miles also challenges the foundation of being Spider-Man also and is no saint and acting like Miguel is evil for the way he apprehended Miles and that no rational/empatheitc Spidey deserves to be on Miguel's side. I just don't get how people miss that there is complexity and it isn't black and white on either side.

100% agree with you. Love all your videos.

I just really hope the 3rd movie isn't like "Nope. Miles was right all along. He didn't need to loose anything. All the other Spider people are just idiots who no one should like. Miles is BETTER," cause... no. It's more complicated than that. You can't just set up a nuanced issue and then say one said is objectively right and the other is objectively wrong as a way of building your character up while tearing everyone else down. IMO they already damaged this franchise a bit by painting Gwen and Peter as morally inferior to Miles for siding with Miguel, evidence they were shown be damned.

My question is, that how can there be a canon event in the multiverse, where the universes exist on the principle of everything that can happen already hapenned? For example: even if Miles saves his dad in Beyond there will be a universe, well he did not.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

It seems that canon events are a pattern in the multiverse. Where no matter what, something will happen. But canon events are a pretty vague, yet complicated thing.

@somogyigabor2524

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal Yeah I hope they give an explanation to them

Miles is going to learn a very harsh lesson about reality No matter how strong or how good you are sometimes you can’t win and you can’t save those you love Life is just like that sometimes

The problem that with Miguel's decision is that he's willing to let one die for the many and morally correct when talking about saving as many lives. The issue is that spiderman doesn't let one person's death justify all other's lives to live. He is willing to put his body in the way to at least attempt to save them all. You can't save everyone but you have to try to save everyone. Miles being the original anomaly could be false. Simply being that we are talking about events and Kingpin creating the collider is most likely the anomaly. Miles being spiderman is just to aftereffect of it. The issue anomaly's causing the destruction of the universe that they interact with is wrong. Since we see all other spidermen going through other dimensions. Miguel's issue is that he tried to replace another universe's Miguel. As far we seen each universe will try to get rid of its interlopers and that's why we see them glitch out. The universe couldn't get rid of Miguel so a response to that can just be to self-destruct.

@hiim4212

Жыл бұрын

Finally a comment that actually a lines with what i'm saying. See Miguel didn't stop the cannon event (at least from what I see in the movie) but instead jumps in after his other self dies. Also it wasn't really miles fault either, miles was the resort of a craze scientist who wanted to experiment on some things. Funny enough the spider went to miles, yet could have gone to any other person too. In summary no I don't think miles is an anomaly in the sense he made him self to be, but is the resort of the environment around him...At least in my opionion

@eeeee322

Жыл бұрын

You’re not considering the fact that in Miguel’s eyes if he tries to save everyone the only outcome is the universe being wiped out. He didn’t even think saving everyone was a possibility because of the fact that he and multiple others witnessed a whole universe vanish so morally to him the right thing would be to not interfere and make things worse.

Totally understand both sides. Risking the lives of billions to save one is a too great of a risk. But also, if it was someone you care about and love, someone you knew when and how they die, you wouldn’t just sit back and do nothing.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. And there’s that little optimistic hope with Miles. That hopefully, since Spider-Man “always find a way” then maybe he can save his dad without endangering anyone.

@nishikantpanda8211

11 ай бұрын

​@@martianmetalBut that optimism comes from the fact that we know we are watching a movie whose protagonist is miles and antagonist is Miguel. So there is no way the writers would let Miguel be right. But if this was a real life situation, Miguel is the rational one to listen to.

As far as I know, Gwen's dad doesn't and still hasn't died in the canon of her comics. Maybe canon events actually work differently between universes. Maybe certain events could be similar and happen in similar ways (or never happen at all as with Miguel and specifically Jessica in the comics), but they aren't exactly the same. My hope is that Miguel just doesn't have the full picture of what's going on and is only partly true.

nah bro fr said fuck it im going heads and tails

Wait when you think about it if Miguel replaced the worlds Miguel that died.. a canon event can only happen to spidermen so Gabriella was probably supposed to be spiderwomen but when Miguel replaced himself he changed that and Gabriella didnt become spiderwoman

what if the dimension that miguel had "killed" was the same dimension as the broken dimension in doctor strange 2 and that miguel's world died because of that version of Strange

It feels right to agree with both Miguel and Miles. Miguel is the one to first tackle the chaos, and make sense of it. Miles is the new age thinking that will solve that problem. Without Miguel being the first one to ask the 'trolly problem', Miles wouldn't have known that his father was fated to die. He now has a choice, instead of fate sneaking up on him.

undertale fans hearing this be like

@OctoMaple

Жыл бұрын

I dont get it

@mjangelvortex

Жыл бұрын

​@@OctoMapleThe game can allow the player to either let the NPCs die (neutral or genocide runs) or save all of them (pacifist runs).

I would do exactly what Miles did, it’s his life and his story. He’s his own Spider-Man, even if it goes wrong.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. it seems like Miles will be having control over his own fate from this point on, since the theme about the canon events are fate itself

@liamjordan3068

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal It’s also very introspective of comics, like for example an origin story that isn’t canon would be hearsay to some. The only true cannon event is being bite by a spider. After this, certainly in this story, absolutely anything is possible, from Miles view, they just jumped into an Indian version of Spider-Man and altered a cannon event. If your Miles and have just done this, absolutely nothing Miguel says would alter how you think going forward. It raises good points for the story, how truthful is Miguel being? When he’s put on the spot by Gwen, about if he knows what happens if they alter a cannon event, he says something like, do you want to find out? Miles is going to answer this question for us.

The reason why i side with miguel here is that because his option is most logical strictly looking at the trolley problem. Trolly problem says that if a train is coming and is going to kill 5 people, but turning the track by pulling lever kills 1 person, what would you do? Obviously most people would (including myself) would pick saving 5 people since it would be selfish not to pull the lever just because you dont feel it to be the right moral decision. I understand that the idea that miles and what 3rd movie will pull out is that miles will find out a way to make a C option where he saves the one person and 5 people together. But here is the problem, first it breaks the question's dilemma it wants you to be in, the dilemma or the point of question being is that you dont have a C option. There is no 3rd option and you are stuck with the option you have. If you are gonna say "oh i wanna save everyone" wouldnt effect the outcome that is gonna come. If you try to save one person, it will lead to death 5 people. You cannot do anything about it. And one more thing, Miles isnt looking for saving everyone, he is looking for "i am gonna save my father and then we are gonna see what happens" he has decided to choose to save the one person instead of 5, and when miguel litrelly told him that whats the consequence of choosing one person, he cannot just "lemme save my father and we will see whats gonna happen" saving your father inevitably means you are allowing the rest of multiverse to die. The reason being that Miles doesnt know the consequences of this thing and thats why he thinks he can do it when miguel already did what miles is trying to. Tho i know the movie will find out a 3rd way to break the dilemma, like you said, but ethically or morally looking, miles is making a selfish decision. I would love to see a compromise in end where Miles doesnt gets fully what he wants and in result he actions does leads to consequences. For example Miguel sacrifices his universe or himself to let Miles's live. And thats what Miles will learn, part of being spiderman is always trying to save everyone which miles learned but what he didn't learn yet ,part of it is facing that your decisions sometimes lead to wrong answers and you cannot save everyone. Instead of being depressed about it, you have to move on and keep doing what you do best, keep trying with your very best. I think this would lead to a great 4rth installment where Miles meet another spiderman or spidergirl where she/ he has this miles philosophy and Miles has now adapted to Miguel's philosophy. Miles is grown up now.

The problem is both are right and both have to compromise their opinions to benefit one another. From my perspective, it seems Miguel wants Miles to compromise a lot for the sake of the multi-verse without compromising something himself to find another way to benefit both parties.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

He 100% does want miles to compromise. The original compromise for Miguel is the safety of the multiverse. Idk what he’d have to compromise to find another way however

@dranixrush3306

4 ай бұрын

This sounds illogical a hell. This isn't something on a personal level, at least regarding Miguel to find a compromise on. They both decided to make a call on what is best. Miles's choice is the more selfish of the two. Yes, Miles has more to lose, however, it's Miguel's operation to save an incalculable amount of people.

I am on Miguel's side, Miguel is trying to bring balance to the multiverse, thats the purpose the spider society. I know miles is trying to save his family but what breaking the canon he could destroy his own universe, his family and himself with it and he could risk creating something even worse than the spot. And now thanks him and gwen, they may have turned every spider man against each other seting the stage for all out Multiversal civil war between free will and destiny and we have no idea how this could.

Gwen said she saved her dad in the first movie, but she couldn't save Peter, who was her canon event. Did they retcon that?

Day and Night Miguel & Moonknight is on my mind 🎵🎶

0:04 marvel spider man 2 🕷 ps5 2023 and a new story begins

What if the cannon event still happens but it’s not his dad who is sacrificed. There will always be police captains. What if by changing who is police captain just changes who dies. Miles will have to wrangle with the dilemma that his choice changed who died. Miguel will have to face the choice that cannon events can change but that doesn’t mean they can be stopped. Also Miguel has a mother. What if the subject of the father is just a red herring.

Can’t wait for the spider-sona. Even if I’m tired of Spider-Man

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks

a police captian will still die in that universe, just not gwen's dad

honestly i think people who say miguel did nothing wrong are just trying to be different, miles is the most likeable character in the movie while miguel is the most unlikeable, his backstory wasnt explored enough, same goes for canon events and throughout the movie he makes the whole spiderverse chase miles and hes also forcing miles to let his father die

@DJBrown-vv3tn

Жыл бұрын

His universe could collapse and Miguel has witnessed this firsthand

@zomorion9183

Жыл бұрын

As someone who loves EoT Miguel, ATSV Miguel is easily one of my least favorite Spider Men for everything you said. Miguel is just unlikable for all the wrong reasons a Spiderman should be unlikable. If it was Spot or Kingpin, then that'd make sense. He is asking a kid who lost his uncle to let his father die while he has the chance to stop it. By Miguel's own words, he's expecting that out of a 'kid'. Then proceeds to dump his insecurities FOR ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON on said 'kid', knowing full well that any rational human being wouldn't react the way he wants Miles to react. For someone who's touted to be smart, he makes some absurdly stupid choices. You can't expect someone to listen to everything you say after you call him a mistake. And then there's the obvious cannon events. Not once did anyone question how Gwen not being in her universe would prevent her from making a bond with her father, violating her cannon event, which in turn would destroy her universe. Because what do you know? It didn't get destroyed. Gwen then getting Captain Stacy to retire before being captain also violated her cannon event, but nothing happened. No universe destroying black hole. No glitches. And Miguel blames it on Miles and not the multiverse travelling maniac (Because clearly portal making powers can't possibly have side effects on the rest of the Multiverse, right Miguel?). Even by Miguel's own words, sometimes they could save universes. Meaning it happened more than twice. So he never once asked himself why some universes could be saved while others can't? You can't possibly expect Miguel to be this stupid. He's been shown to be one of the smartest Spider-Men, and if we can think of these instances, he should be more than able to. Honestly, Miguel feels like a "What If: J. Jonah Jameson was Spider-Man" except we don't even have JJ's backstory to make it sensible. Miguel's regular backstory would justify most of his actions, but not his complete stupidity. Miguel was just cringe-inducing this movie.

@dorim3165

Жыл бұрын

@@zomorion9183 i think miguel is right about canon events but he doesnt really know much about the consequences of disrupting a canon event, in his backstory it shows that earth disintegrating, but for pavitrs canon event a weird black hole opened and it wasnt really explained if that was caused by the spot or the canon event, theres not much reason to side with miguel and then theres miles, whos confident and decisive and he has to deal with the spot, the whole spiderverse chasing him, and the fact that his dad supposedly has to die, and he even gets told by his friends to listen to the insane dude chasing him in all fours telling him to let his father die 💀 its really hard to like/agree with miguel and its impossible to not like miles

@OctoMaple

Жыл бұрын

Did you even watch the video or movie..?

@zomorion9183

Жыл бұрын

@@dorim3165 IMO, it's the other way around. Because, in the first collapse, involving Miguel, all the other SpiderMen were there, and even if Miguel didn't know or care, someone else would probably bring it up to him in the second collapse, or if there were more collapses, as it is implied that there is, bring it up then. A lot of the SpiderMen aren't stupid, and they have no real reason to be that ignorant. I feel like Miguel doesn't understand what triggered that universe to collapse. And it's clear he doesn't, because by his logic, at least Earth 42 and Gwen's universe would be destroyed, and Spot should be the original anomaly, since Miles didn't blast the spider into his universe, it was the Spot. There's no way for him to know about Gwen's universe, but he should know about Earth 42, and he hasn't done jack if the Sinister 6 cartel is a thing. Something about Miguel's theory doesn't add up IMO, but let's wait and see.

Lol no way I’m also Puerto Rican and my Spanish sucks 😭.Also what part of Puerto Rico are you from? I’m from San German

@martianmetal

6 ай бұрын

Lol nice. I wasn’t born in Puerto Rico, my family was. I believe they’re from Utuado

Hey martian what if Miguel is correct and miles will only ruin his universe by saving his father, which has to happen. Do you agree with either Miguel or Miles? Because it seems now both choices do make are too tricky.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

I would still agree with both. Their perspectives and the reality of the situation.

@JaceNurcombe-lf8os

Жыл бұрын

But how does that explain that Miles won't make the same mistake as Miguel cuz I think that's what he's afraid of. That's why Miguel got too rough on him.

Great Video, This Is An Interesting Facts To Learn. Miles Morales Didn't Think That Doing Nothing But Wait For His Dad To Die Was Good, Unrelated But In The Insomniac Games That Version Of Miles States That He Wants To Do More Than Set Around And Wait For Someone To Do Stuff, He Wants To Stuff Too. Spider-Man 2099 However Follows Strictly On Canon Events Are Strictly Believes That If A Canon Event Does Not Take Place, An Entire Universe Can Be Destroyed. Both Have Point Of Views That Are Right.

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Miles literally knew his dad was about to die, when in the other universes, the police captains died outside of Spider-Man’s control. But it’s different with Miles. Both Insomniac and Spider-Verse Miles represent wanting to do something instead of waiting, which I really like.

Tbh I honestly thought miguel was berating miles because he wanted to break him so he wouldn't continue running on the train lmao

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking something similar. Also Miguel is not that good of a person tbh like he is insanely rude

How long did it take for Miguel's universe to corrupted? We dont know, but if it was like a year or 2, Miles' universe is soon coming to an end. Hes been spiderman for 1.5 years and was never even supposed to be bitten. Soo, nothing's gonna change if miles' dad is saved since the universe of miles is gonna go out anyway 😅

I think Im gonna side with Miguel. The only argument Ive seen for Miles being right is that Gwen's dad quitting from becoming a captain stopped her canon event and that basically gives the audience hope that Miles is right. But this argument is kinda skewed for Gwen. You keep saying uncle's dying is a canon or pattern, but that wasn't a pattern for Gwen. Somebody close to her did die, but it wasn't an uncle, it was her close friend. I think there are exceptions in difference universes where its not an uncle dying, but just somebody close to spiderman or spiderwomen, which is gwen. But maybe Mile's dad isnt the canon event, and maybe its his mom or something. Difference universes could have same canon events, but with different people.

and also, you could just. upgrade the tech to make it 100% efficient at stopping the universe from falling apart? Like, you could at least look into it instead of just condemning hundreds of people to death just cause some algorithm demands it.

@dranixrush3306

4 ай бұрын

How is he supposed to develop such tech? The cost? Or is he that well versed in the space/time continuum? Not being fair here dude.

Like Miguel wanted miles to save the universe or his dad his uncle Aaron died now Miguel wants miles to lose another person important to him couldn’t just let him do both save the universe and his dad or he will become the prowler

If miles 1610 dad died that he will lose 2 people His uncle, and father

In my opinion, every spider man has a canon of losing the sex of close people by villains and it is usually 2 men and 1 woman e.g. Peter B Parker lost his uncle captain stacy and gwen by villains Andrew Garlfield lost his uncle , gwen and captain stacy Tom Holland lost his uncle (or not), aunts and Tony Stark (captain), Peter P ( ps4) he losted aunt , uncle and jefferson because villans And Miles lost through the villain Kingpin - uncle Aaron And Peter Parker (which i think that was his captain)so miles should through Spot now lose one female character And I think it's Rio

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

That’s what I’m worried about. I think somewhere in the comics Rio does die, I’m not sure though. But it’s definitely a possibility. either that, or Gwen herself. Miles is only focused on saving his dad. so I’m honestly worried that the writers will have something tragic happen to his mom, since the point of across the spider-verse was just protecting his dad

@maciejmaecki9358

Жыл бұрын

@@martianmetal yes she died in comics and i found one thing in the movie if miles never supposed to be spider man ,peter parker 1610 never supposed to be dies so uncle aaron from e 1610 never supposed to be dies right?🤔 and i belivie miles canon is not his dad death and jefferson from earth 42 is died and he was a captain and what if peter parker from earth 42 supposed to dies like uncle aaron from earth 42 and rio from earth 42 because earth 1610 and 42 the are opposied

I kinda bad for Miguel, he just lost his daughter he love, and his earth completely destroyed and miles too, I think Miguel have got too far, he’s been though enough, both of them were right for this, I’m sure hope they make Miguel into a good guy without a bad guy, he can finally understand for what miles said is true, they can work together to stop spot before he destroys the world and people for the new movie next year.

One word. Incursions.

Miles in part 2 fucked up like character

Imagine a choice with a train that suits the movie very well. You see your relative and 5 people on the other rail. You decide to save your relative and choose death for 5 people, and then the train flies off the rail, falls on its side and kills all 6 people with its braking path. Miles wants to save his family, but if he does, then according to Miguel, the whole universe will die, which will kill both Miles and his parents. Bravo Vince- Screenwriters are idiots

@martianmetal

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, the train scenario is that I was trying to think of. I’m hoping there’d somehow be a third option in Beyond, which is no one dying. Which is possible, but I feel like people would hate it.

@Yalovayahznepomnimena

7 ай бұрын

@@martianmetal This scenario is normal. I just hate Miles from part 2. In the first film, he is a novice hero, in the second he is a complete idiot and the fault in this is obviously not his

With Miles felt betrayed by his former friends now trapped by the sinister cartel of earth 42 Spot had already arrived at 1610B now about to finish what he came to do putting everything and everyone at risk of his conquest of the multiverse Miles had no where left to go leaving his friends in the dust but nothing he can do about it expecting his friends don't want him anymore but he excluded them anyway and his parents are left vulnerable for the Spot's mutiversal havoc without Spider-Man in every universe there's no way to stop these villains

Miguel is insanely wrong and he knows it. Miguel himself goes against canon events. If what he says is the truth then earth 1610 would have been erased when Peter B Parker took over that worlds in the first movie. There’s also the fact that miles flat out breaks a canon event and they were able to fix it. It could also be argued that the glitching was caused from the collider explosion. Gwen also changes a canon event thru her dad not becoming captain. Miles is 1000% right in saying we shouldn’t listen to some algorithm!

@jumbojoe3030

11 ай бұрын

I honestly have no idea what you’re saying about earth-1610 and Peter B Parker. In regards to Gwen’s dad, literally only a few minutes has passed and you’re ready to conclude “nothing happened”? Miguel knows his ideas are merely a theory. One with supportive evidence. Even if you think it’s a load of shit, what makes you think miles and Hobie acting without a hypothesis makes things any better? You can disagree with Miguel, but what’s their hypothesis/ proposal?

@dranixrush3306

4 ай бұрын

​@@jumbojoe3030I know right?!!!

I Think canon events Don't exist

only Peter B parkuh was wrong unless they think that universes need spider-people or superheroes, in which case he's right. buuuuut superheroes in those universes realistically would not make the world better, there would just be bigger crimes and stuff cause of them, so him saying that if uncle Ben didn't die they wouldn't be there, doesn't really matter, like they would probably be doing the multiverse a favor ig.

@OctoMaple

Жыл бұрын

Maybe to an extent but look at how Miles world from 42 turned out, He was supposed to be bitten but wasn't so there's no spider man in his world and you can tell that crime is still if not more prevalent.

@user-zl3fp4bq2z

Жыл бұрын

@@OctoMaple ohhh, yeah in that world there's a lot of crime and it's all apocalyptic, forgot about him

@kenblade7244

Жыл бұрын

@@OctoMaple Who's to say that if Miles from Earth 42 got bit, he wouldn't just be the Prowler with spider powers?

no. miles is BLACK

@martianmetal

Жыл бұрын

And Hispanic. Bro’s biracial