Without Tiriti, Michael Laws would be living in the slums of UK

So many people who comment on this have no idea what either version of the treaty says and just rely on the opinions of others to shape what they think. I’ve even encountered folks on here that swear the Māori version is exactly the same as the English version. Poor dears.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

There were many English drafts and the Mother one which was translated into Maori has not been made public by Te Papa tut tut this must come forth yesterday!!!

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

And then there are some who swear there are two completely different versions of the treaty. Equally poor dears. Fact is that there are two translations of the treaty, where the writers did the best job they could in conveying exactly what needed to be conveyed. Add to that the conversations and explanations between missionaries, statesmen, and chiefs, and no need to muddy the Waitangi waters.... unless one has a political agenda of course.

@user-kl8op6hp1q

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, you sound like one of those people.

@jamesakers4713

6 ай бұрын

@@user-kl8op6hp1q How so?

@zweed69

6 ай бұрын

@@user-kl8op6hp1q 💯

People are triggered in the comments but Michael is 100% correct. This is what we created as NZers. We get what we voted in. That's true because we kept voting them in again...and again...and again...and again...Now young ones have to grow up in a divided country. That is so disappointing how the past generations from the 60s, 70s, and after have let us down. I've always been annoyed at the 'she'll be right', leave it alone, don't offend, don't touch it, culture that we have...What did that really mean: avoid disagreement...Our trajectory as a country is set but can we still change it? Can we pull back and progress as a unified country?

@SmilingDove-fh7tt

4 ай бұрын

He's a load of shit talks out his ass

school up Michael...... where in the treaty does it say "there are two people'???? the Te tiriti is the only official treaty, why? because the English version wasn't at Waitangi on the 6th....

I think I agree with everything you say ... except that the nz public had any say in the matter. We elect governments and then they do as they please. Some ..like the last labour version even go as far as hiding what they're doing for everyone.

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

And that's the ridiculousness of democracy, every now, and then you get to vote for your favourite dictator, we give China a hard time, but what people don't realise is the man can be fired if he falls from favor... but it's funny- who's had their hand in the middle east cookie jar since age's ago but never been held accountable? Who refused to sign the freedom of navigation law yet feels legit telling people where they can sail, I mean- dam who told the Haugh they would invade it if they ever tried to hold an American guilty of war crimes 😳 😆

@bigthinker281

6 ай бұрын

People are triggered in the comments but Michael is 100% correct. This is what we created as NZers.

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

So triggered my response is gone.

@moniquebode1655

5 ай бұрын

There was no transparency in the last Labour Greens Govt

It's really great when someone who agrees with my outlook on the Treaty...and all it contains..Yes we need to realise that it it is no longer relevant today....Do you think the Who and WEF are encouraging the Governing bodies to act this way?

@brendonwilliams3606

5 ай бұрын

So that's encouraging civil war I take it how else will it be sorted out without an agreement?

DOI 1835 is the founding document

And just to repeat myself.... The penalty for TREASON is still punishable by DEATH.

Get rid of the Treaty. It’s not fit for purpose.

@SmilingDove-fh7tt

4 ай бұрын

Get rid of you first then c .mor luxtin P.ters the treaty will b hear long after you 4 clowns and any other idiots many fools will come and go take on the treaty you'll loose just like Don brash and many others miky dog needs a shut up bone b 4 he chokes on his racist one point of shit talk good luck cause the treaty ant going any where

@nomez2230

20 күн бұрын

It's not fit for YOUR purpose

If either party doesn't understand what they are signing doesn't that void the contract?

@Thewandereringanzac

6 ай бұрын

Maori knew exactly what they were signing. It was read out to them in Maori. They gave the queen governorship, nothing else. Kept everything else to themselves.

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

1] The meaning was communicated well. 2] It is not a contract but a compact between peoples.

@korocam9137

6 ай бұрын

Thankyou Michael.. Truth hurts doesn’t it?

@Empathiclistener

5 ай бұрын

Chiefs were generally intelligent, they had the wording and meaning of Te Tiriti explained and they discussed this between themselves. They had already experienced decades of contact with European settlers and European ideas of ownership and governance. The New South Wales governance model was well known.

@Empathiclistener

5 ай бұрын

@@Thewandereringanzac Well, they were promised to keep lands and possessions to themselves. The definition of possessions or taonga has been stretched over time.

Those of us lost in the labyrinthe of fickle theory today have no conception of the past whatsoever. Back in the day, practical and largely homourable men had a state and a country to build. Only the actual reading of actual history removes you from the two-dimensional maze.

Pretty harsh Michael! I think we're all confused by the many conflicting stories and versions about the Treaty, rather than stupid.

@ianshand6094

6 ай бұрын

Precisely right, Sheryl. It was the NZ Govt that were stupid and responsible for what happened in 1975 NOT the NZ people.

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

His point is that it is irrelevant to the present as it belongs to a distant past, that our politics can not be treaty-centric. In this sense, it doesn't matter whether we understand what it means or not. It's an interesting take, and one I would put in the camp of reactionism [reacting to the treaty-centric radicals]. Personally, I think a pragmatic middle way is better - the treaty should be historicized while understanding the significant role it had in shaping the country that we've become. Yes, it has been superseded but it is not irrelevant, it should have a historically proportionate meaning for us, especially for Maori where they first attained to equal rights under law, which our subsequent Parliament ratified/ recognised shortly after we became a self-governing colony.

@zweed69

6 ай бұрын

@@davethewave7248 yes but I still agree with laws here in that nzers in general are a stupid mob. Look at covid, look at the number of voters greens get, most kiwis are oblivious of politics in general and even those who think they are abreast of currant issues are ignorant to huge impacts when they happen, most often clueless.

Lets just be one people. There's nothing mad about that fact. People that try and twist and twine between that fact are trying to be something else.

Yeah it means: Iwi unite!

@dobbynp

6 ай бұрын

which they didn't when it was signed

The simple and obvious reason that the people of Aotearoa are one people (and not two or more) is that there has been almost two hundred years of relationships among people of different ethnic backgrounds. About a quarter of people identifying as European have Māori ancestry; and about half of people identifying as Māori have European ancestry. The vast majority of people have a multi-ethnic ancestry... Anyway, kiwis should move beyond race and ethnicity. And most do! Irrespective of anyone's race or ethnicity, humans have the lowest genetic diversity of almost any species. We are all human!

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

Yes, we developed as one people thanks to the treaty. There was no form of apartheid. My best mates at school were Maori and I remember their names well. One was a Morehu [a survivor].

@korocam9137

6 ай бұрын

What a wonderful world that would be Neil.. tell that to the Aboriginal people of Australia, or the Native people of North and South America or the many Indigenous people who have suffered Genocide because of Settler Colonial Imperialism. But guess what Neil, there are people RIGHT NOW suffering because other people want ALL their land, the International Court of Justice has found Plausible evidence against Israel that they are committing Genocide right Now! If it wasn’t for the foresight of my ancestors we would have suffered the same fate as our brothers and sisters.

@neil3488

6 ай бұрын

@@korocam9137 Yes, there are major issues around the world... But we can't solve the world's problems in KZread comments... Whenever I've been on a plane returning to Aotearoa, I have a strong feeling that I'm returning to one of the best countries on Earth. Let's continue to celebrate our differences and not allow them to divide us.

Where was the referendum in 1986 when the NZ Govt repealed the NZ Constitution Act of 1852!!!

Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993. S2, ss3. In the event of any conflict in meaning between the English version of the Pre amble and the Maori version, the Maori version shall prevail.

@StGammon77

5 ай бұрын

That wasn't written in 1840

@eddiegilbertwakefield3301

5 ай бұрын

How many indigenous people in the world do you know have a Declaration of Independence, a Treaty, and a Law? Furthermore, your NZ Govt is already Appointed by the Rat-Ana Church (25th Jan), the Maori Council (6th Feb), and the Maori King (date unknown). So therefore what are you electing? ..... A private company registered to a DEBT COLLECTOR called DUNN and BRADSTREET.

Ask One New Zealand Foundation about the written charter that the museum won't bring out from storage. That is THE document.

Its time to become a republic with a constitution to protect every citizens rights.

@J67844

5 ай бұрын

That would never happen.

@dallasfrost1996

5 ай бұрын

Yup, agree.

@moniquebode1655

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely 💯 right ✅️ 👏

@davidbuck5864

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely disagree. Not interested. I will take the monarch as head of state any day. No politician deserves that honour. Just look at the senile old socialist the Yanks are stuck with!

The problem that we face is if the Treaty is to only be an historical document we would need to go down a long and expensive path to documenting a constitution

@zweed69

6 ай бұрын

I recommend you read 'a nz coup' by Ian Wishart

@Haupaiful

6 ай бұрын

They signed it because they were killing and eating the useless warriors they bashed with clubs and schooled in warfare, they knew that it didn’t serve anyone to keep a land of war and murder, they had already experienced it in Tahiti, so yea they knew what their adversary didn’t know

The Maori activist and radical leaders place great emphasis upon te tiriti but the English "draft" was the first document. The intent and conditions for the Crown for a treaty with Maori. Maori contend that there is miscommunication when it was translated. Well I don't think so. There is too much evidence that Maori "got it"

First off the treaty is a legal document so if you are not reading it with a legal dictionary ( I recommend blacks law dictionary version 1) you won't know what is says (legal definitions of words are often very different to English definitions of words. Secondly the English version is irreverent (for more information on that watch Sean Plunkets interview with Winston Peters). Thirdly if you are not reading the Maori version of the treaty in the context of the 1835 Declaration of the Independence of New Zealand / He Whakaputanga you will not understand its significance and how it protects us all

@bootdaballcuz

6 ай бұрын

Yes that's correct...I agree, it's actually there to protect all of us...its actually the right for Maori and all kiwis to be sovereign on our land as guardians and not be ruled by a foreign entity which was the Crown....kia ora bro

@zweed69

6 ай бұрын

yes but as laws pointed out, correctly, the treaty was deemed null and void by nz high court after the land wars. Thats where the legal buck stopped I'm afraid, its legal precedent 🤷‍♂

@bootdaballcuz

6 ай бұрын

Which the laws were in place by the foreign and illegal government in the first place...the high court is run by the crown which only has their best interests in mind...where we as maori and non maori have the sovereign rule over our land ... not the monarchy of England...we choose and have the right under the treaty to protect our way of living and way of life and not be dictated by the crown or the government that represents the crown.

@bootdaballcuz

6 ай бұрын

​@zweed69 we as people of the land of the kiwi have the right to stand against the tyranny of government and officials...there actually isn't 2 treaty's there is only one which the Maori with wisdom and foresight put in place so all kiwis can preserve our way of living...even us maori need to understand this also...its for the benefit of all people who live in our land of the kiwi...the commonwealth umbrella is a joke, I'd rather us as a people look after our land water and oceans and not the illegal government in place...when you understand the government is simply there to divide the nation and create the chaos and offer the solution to the problem that they created, constantly keep us distracted to justify their jobs and push the corporate narrative at our expense you'd understand that we as a people are a threat when united and hold these institutions responsible they no longer serve a purpose so their best interests is to keep us distracted AND divided than actually moving forward as a nation...if you can't see that you truly are asleep my fellow person from the land of the humble kiwi

@thrivewithdave349

6 ай бұрын

@@zweed69 I’m not sure that you intended but you’ve proved my point beautifully. However you are correct in the sense that the English version is null and void but the Maori version is far beyond the reach of any court in NZ. William gave the Hereditary Chefs independence.

wow such a breath of reason to architect progress. if you want it?

TIRITI ALSO GAVE PEACE FOR OVER 180Years. Would ALL AOTEAROA/NEW ZEALAND Throw that away...SURELY NOT...

I dont get it. How can you cede governance to the crown in article 1 but then say that you still own the land in article 2? But i take Michaels point. I suppose like legislation laws need to be rewritten, updated because its relevance does not hold up to current times.

And there you go!!!!

The fact that people are still debating the treaty after 180 years shows that it isn’t fit for purpose.

@lockk132

6 ай бұрын

No,it shows it hasn't been abided by

@iammattbarker

6 ай бұрын

It would be fit for purpose if it hadn't been ignored. NZ would look very different if Maori were honoured.

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

Does it?🤔 ...does it really?...🤨🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

@rondellleenicholls596

6 ай бұрын

If anything it has failed as a binding document. It seems as though it was signed by the rangatira of the time in good faith & England's queen just left it to Hobson & all the other successive representatives of the crown to administer governance without check. Not once did any of them stop to care whether they were actually observing it in relation to the treatment of maori & most certainly not while they confiscated millions of acres of land and provoked further resistance which resulted in more war, killing women and children along with the defending maori. All the way down to attempting to squash te reo into extinction. Land courts would often take weeks or months to be heard & only ever held in wellington so any claimant would have to travel there & hope to be heard before starvation forced them to abandon their case. This is just the tip of the iceberg when we start looking at the systematic methods used to ignore the treaty & degrade manamotuhake of iwi maori. Everyone is afraid of the co governance concept. But maori never got the choice given when it came to land & culture retention. Is it any wonder that they protest at what to many seem to be every turn. It's because they have to. Isn't it shameful that even in this day & age the government after 180 years in all of their wisdom & culturedness still tries to ignore the contract they put forward for those cheifs to sign in the promise of a country that was to live together in harmony.?

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

@@rondellleenicholls596 wow! ....well said 👏 👍 👌

7:45 Yes the courts *did* rule the treaty was null and void after the land wars, why is that Michael? 🤔

Good to see the ex National MP saying how National did action things. 1950 to 1972 National was in effective for Aucklands public transport.

TOW has done its day, not fit for purpose in 2024

@Te_Enzo_

6 ай бұрын

lol, same like colonization.. But here we are

@cullenkehoe5184

6 ай бұрын

It's just a historical document. If you think the British by 1840 how many treaties they had written up with Native peoples from North America and Australia, it was just another one. It's probably they best one they did because in making Maori citizens it largely protected them from future violence. But it was just a Treaty written for a single time and place.

@Colin_Izer1111

6 ай бұрын

@@Te_Enzo_ Nothing wrong with Colonization.

@Te_Enzo_

6 ай бұрын

@cullenkehoe5184 buddy, at the time of the signing, there was a 40 to 1 situation.. No way are Māori signing over citizenship to someone they havnt meet.. Also at the time, we carnt support that the information that was told to Māori was understood..

@Te_Enzo_

6 ай бұрын

@ColinIzer1111 I think when we look at it from one perspective it seems legit.. But only having one referral to ones understanding only makes one Prespective...

A True xunt of the Crown

Michael,after all your ramping and raving about the treaty you didn't mention the Crown the owner of the Treaty document that was signed by the two people.If anyone reject the Crown then the signed Treaty is not valid is null and void.So where does that leave us back before 1840.

If we become a republic that will end all the Treaty settlements and fights

Bring back the Treaty of Versailles I say!

@lindamckenzie6500

6 ай бұрын

Tha Magna Carta

@ObiePaddles

6 ай бұрын

@@lindamckenzie6500 technically still a part of the constitution, for the better.

David Seymoe 9:18 9:19 is doing the rite thing this is the document as it was written now here are the so called differences what do you ALL think

Neville Chamberlain was also a businessman. : (

@God-Zin-uru

6 ай бұрын

Probably a merchant and a Freemason🤔

NZ still breaks international law concerning treaties, and over the 180 years the NZ government have never ever honoured the offical legal document of Titiriti O Waitangi. Which illustrates even in 2024 that politicians today lie, are brought / lobbied with no policies directed to help all NZer's / Kiwis (only to slash people services education, medical, social housing (all peoples cultural right / custom came from a communal living setup (not cutting people out) etc.

In 2002, Bill English delivered a lecture at the NZ Centre for Public Law. The title of the lecture was "The Treaty of Waitangi and New Zealand Citizenship" It places the Treaty in its 1840 context of international law. Hobson and the British faced a basic choice - to mimic treaties signed elsewhere in the world, or to adopt a different model. The overseas treaties (in North America for example) provide for indigenous tribes to be protected peoples. This is why Canadian tribes are these days represented as being "first nations". Plains Indians did not obtain a right to a passport until the 1920s (from memory). The ToW on the other hand specified that there was to be one status for all citizens of a new sovereign entity in the land. That is, Maori would have the same rights and responsibilities as other subjects of Britain - the lesser status of a protected people. Article One, therefore, enabled Article Three. And Article Two was meant to end the conquest of the rohe of smaller iwi by larger iwi with guns, There had to be some awareness at the time that it would take time to reach the final destination. Yet the the final destination (very imprecisely) charted.

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

What amazes me is all the constitutional wrangling over the treaty. All you had there was a ceding of a *nominal* sovereignty to the British Crown [by which the tribes gained the privileges of British subjects]. Britain then declared *actual* sovereignty over the whole country shortly after... thereby begins a train of historical events that supercede the treaty [not abolish it]. The way out of this mess is first not to think in treaty-centric terms, but in terms of evolution and historical process... in terms of a semnse of historical proportion. Probably asking too much lol.

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

@@davethewave7248 they didn't cede soverignty though. Why would they, there were only 2000 europeans here in 1840.

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

@@barneyboy2008 Chiefs had been to Sydney, and London. They knew what was coming. They had learnt a new way from the missionaries after the most brutal war/ slaughter between the tribes over the past two decades once northern tribes gained muskets. Signing the treaty in the political sphere coincided with their conversion in the spiritual sphere. They were ready for law and order and realized this could only be achieved by submitting to the Queen and her representatives on very favorable terms.

@kenmckay5578

6 ай бұрын

​@barneyboy2008 oh yes they did! And obviously they knew what would happen if they didn't get recognition and protection of the British govnt ! Come on you can't be that naive !

@bootdaballcuz

6 ай бұрын

​@@kenmckay5578 protection against who?

Beautifully said. Brave, honest, articulated, and easy to understand. Well done.

@KiwiSkipper

6 ай бұрын

Agreed

@lindamckenzie6500

6 ай бұрын

Hear hear!

Fuck the treaty

@Thewandereringanzac

6 ай бұрын

😂 butthurt much lmao

@ManaBlack208

6 ай бұрын

Suck it pakeha😅

@lockk132

6 ай бұрын

Why????

@ManaBlack208

6 ай бұрын

@@lockk132 Becoz he's a jealous bastard

@godannz06

5 ай бұрын

Only if that's your mums name!

Michael confuses property (asset) right with the right to govern. They’re different rights.

Here's an equal Truth. If its time for every New Zealander to stand up and remove The Treaty and any and all references to Maori. Then Maori have that same right to ignore New Zealanders and all their Law's Constitutions acts rights and privileges. Fair is fair. Im sickk of old crown law since 1840 that was then this is now. Out with the old in with the new

Because both sides are playing us. Always been this way

We don't know the Maori version is authoritative. That is an opinion, with which many do not agree. I do agree with you, though, that it's time to relegate the Treaty to history, where it belongs.

Well put Michael. You are are far more educated than I gave you credit for. Though Maori were unhappy with the outcome of the treaty since the time it was signed, it was never dead to them like it was to pakeha.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

They weren't unhappy at all haven't you read the Chiefs speeches at Kohimarama Conferences?

We need to look forwards, not backwards. A republic is not a good option- these usually come about through civil war. We need to diplomatically severe ties with the British monarchy, but retain Commonwealth ties. We need to cede sovereignty to ourselves- all citizens, inclusive of Treaty rights as established. Over decades we could take up a new flag, and new national anthem, as required. We are lucky we are made up of islands and don't have any land borders with others. We do have boundaries amongst ourselves, which we need to respect and embrace.

This i s so true. The Treaty had a particular purpose at a particular time. That time has long passed and the Treaty should now be of historical interest only.

@iammattbarker

6 ай бұрын

Clearly you are not Māori.

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

Only for Pakeha, not for Maori.

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

If you want it- come and take it... Tear up that peace treaty at everyone's peril, it stops us killing each other, id say that makes it very relevant indeed.

@Truthmatters375

6 ай бұрын

The fact is that part of the treaty was about protection from the Dutch and the French, Maori are also colonists who afflicted the Moriori to almost extinction, so in all essence who came out the worst off 🤪

A really animated Michael Laws. Really enjoyed your discourse.

Why are you putting the whole thing on National? There are two main parties. Both as incompetent as each other.. Both to be held responsible for where the country is.

All i want michael to do is point out the reo words for fisheries and forrest, i ask him to pay close attention when providing the S in these words, il wait...

The OG Maori cheifs were the smartest ones out of all other cheifs since, they knew signing the treaty was the only thing to insure the longevity of their kind, they knew another musket war would have devastated them, this insured peace amongst the tribes

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

Exactly. They were not stupid, which the old slogan of 'the treaty is a fraud' thought. The new cry of 'honour the treaty' from the new breed of radicals has to perhaps make them out as political scientists insofar as they understood rangatiratanga to *actually* mean sovereignty. lol

@robw4ltz408

6 ай бұрын

Not to mention other Countries interested in Global expansion, what would have been the out come then.

@suphraphonic

6 ай бұрын

yes nailed it ,that is the reason they signed , they could see that maori were going to exterminate their own race .

@lindamckenzie6500

6 ай бұрын

May l observe....there is not much peace there now....

@user-no3sl6xz1i

6 ай бұрын

​@@suphraphonicbull shit

Michael on a rant is brilliant, very good.

@johnburnett3942

5 ай бұрын

Sounds like we need Seymours bill.

The only solution is to write a constitution. Many have tried to make the Treaty Principles our constitution (over and above the Westminster Parliamentary system we have had for nearly 150 years). Oh, and those trying to make the Treaty Principles a constitution have never consulted the public on this. It's wild stuff. Judges, Waitangi Tribunal folks, academics, Maori activists, and even the UN have nearly written it into our legal system that Maori need their own legal system, they own the water and timber, and land nationwide. We need an Upper House of Parliament (unelected of course) to veto legislation from the elected Parliament (see He Puapua report) and it seems everyday new nonsense they are coming up with. It's nothing short of neo-feudalism where we are the peasants. If you knew what these activists have cooked up you would freak out too if someone said we a need equal rights.

@saxdearing3395

6 ай бұрын

Yes, a codified constitution and then embedded.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

We already have the Magna Carta Common Law Court its just not taught to us and how it is a perfect remedy for Governing bodies who go rogue and commit breaches which includes mis spending taxes (giving billions to maori)

@lindamckenzie6500

6 ай бұрын

1)Total takeover.....2.....

Michael, chiefs sold huge chunks of land to the Crown shortly after the signing [most of the South Island was secured for settlement here. Much of the North Island also was sold legally to chiefs shortly after the signing. It was only 2 decades later that a land league developed in central North Island tribes, which led to the series of battle. Some land was confiscated. But later, after the wars, the bulk of Maori land was legally sold again through the land courts. The treaty was considered a *legal* nullity because not between two parties under an over-riding legal system. the treaty was the ceding of nominal sovereignty to the Crown in order for the Crown to establish a legal system... it becoming the law of the land... and territorial integrity required for this. Though a legal nullity it still held moral/ poltical/ cultural and historical force - the obligations to Maori of the treaty were inherited by our own Parliament, and so system of apartheid developed - we were considered one.

@lockk132

6 ай бұрын

You type in ignorance, start again

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

@@lockk132 lol. What part do you think ignorant and why?

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

@@davethewave7248 all of it. Go to the back of the class.

@iammattbarker

6 ай бұрын

You can't overlook the theft of land. Quality research will reveal the truth.

@davethewave7248

6 ай бұрын

@@iammattbarker Most of NZ was legally sold just after the signing of the treaty, and once again through the Land Courts over the course of the 19th century. Some land was confiscated over the course of the war from central North Island tribes that rejected British sovereignty and formed a land league [sovereignty over the whole of NZ was declared shortly after the signing], Some of the confiscated land was returned. Various governments over the generations have sought to address genuine land grievances. Only the bigot thinks all the evil is on one side, and all the good on the other.

Capitalism! It has links to feudalism and slavery. Which parties prompt this economic system? 90 day trials is one example which links feudalism and salvery. Think twice about D Brash and his thinking.

Is this man saying that The Treaty of Waitangi has no legal standing? History? Oh yes, let's look at the history of my Pakeha Western world ancestors. My wife's people say that we talk too much without listening. Never trust the insurance policy you are told to sign. Thats how I see the word of the Western world.

Take the cheaty to a referendum

@jamesakers4713

6 ай бұрын

You obviously haven’t been listening. It’s not gonna happen.

@sunhouse3912

6 ай бұрын

Fuk da cheaty and Maudy

@sunhouse3912

6 ай бұрын

Fuk da cheaty and Maudy

@tuberunningtube9190

6 ай бұрын

Why, the maoris lost !

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

@@jamesakers4713 Exactly. Use a referendum to weasel out of a contract. When maori signed the treaty there were only 2000 europeans here, so it was rather big of them dont you think.

What is the answer Michael you need to tellbus havibg pounted out the problems

Leave the commonwealth then show us a single governing country ???

@arenuzzle6282

5 ай бұрын

Then ww3 we are sitting ducks.

@Matika_awatea

5 ай бұрын

@@arenuzzle6282 haha no one’s coming down to nz mate only because we are with the crown is why we will get fucked

BRO it's symbolizes as a reminder our ancestors arm with a patu & taiaha lost the battle but won the war sent the English home with there heads stuck between there legs together with there state of the art weapon. Bastion point is maori land & the government wants to claim it by manipulating the treaty

There really should have been a follow-up to the treaty a few years later once the nation had developed a bit. But unfortunately, the crown was in the process of ignoring the treaty already by that point. So we have to live with their misdeeds. It's not our fault. But we can't ignore it.

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

exactly the colonial government caused the issues, by their arrogance toward Maori and the treaty.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

Not at all, there were Conferences and the Chiefs speeches are all recorded no one can change their words and intent. Maori radicals are not quoting the Treaty Chiefs they are lying.

@StGammon77

5 ай бұрын

Wrong, there were Kohimarama Conferences where Chiefs spoke its recorded in history and theres a book now called Kohimarama Conference records

Correction: TERITI is an agreement between two Sovereign Entities as stated in the Preamble a continuation of the 1835 Declaration of Independence by He Whakaputanga. 3 article is Individual and gives all Māori the protection of British Citizenship!

@dgm2593

5 ай бұрын

WRONG! Ngapuhi Battalion didnt need your protection. You needed ours. Hone Heke chopped your british flag down 3 times to terminate the treaty contract as there were language misunderstandings. Hone Heke also stated if you cant defend your own flag what makes you think you can defend us?

@eddiegilbertwakefield3301

5 ай бұрын

CITI-ZEN comes from London citi, hence citi-zen, the Administration and Financial district for all Deceased Estates and is separate from England. The Queen of England was the figurehead of all Deceased Estates which means everyone who has a Birth Certificate is a Deceased Estate.

@brendonwilliams3606

5 ай бұрын

So land confiscation crime is (well we've moved on) how would you get on in court saying that these days 😂😂

Someone that makes sense thank god has brought this to light

Article 2. Tino Rangatiratanga applies to Chiefs, tribes and ALL the people of New Zealand 😂 you need to read the treaty again.

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

I dont think that is in there as all the people of NZ didn't sign a treaty with the crown.

@poncholarpez6233

6 ай бұрын

@barneyboy2008 well, it is in there. By signing, the Chiefs then agreed it applied to all New Zealanders regardless if all New Zealanders signed or not.

@jamesakers4713

6 ай бұрын

Homework is hard. Please see the English wording of Article 2 below, which shows you to be lying your head off: Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf.

@poncholarpez6233

6 ай бұрын

@@jamesakers4713 "and to the respective families and individuals there of" 😂 Thank you

@poncholarpez6233

6 ай бұрын

@jamesakers4713 this is the Hugh Kawharu English translation from the Maori version that the Waitangi Tribunal uses "The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise (7) of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures"

Big words, but true eords

Cutt the bs and just talk. That's what this country used to be. You may see yourself as lennon but that doesn't make it so.

What is a maori? Honest question.

@the_oneandonlycrazyjess1396

6 ай бұрын

Me

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

Maoris evolved into Kiwis

Yes the treaty implies we all be treated the same. That's it's only saving grace in terms of longevity.

@cullenkehoe5184

6 ай бұрын

The Treaty Principles don't say we should be treated equally though

@Thewandereringanzac

6 ай бұрын

Michael is right when he says it created a world of two peoples. Maori got rights of British but British didn’t really get rights of Maori as Maori still had tino rangatiratanga. It’s a hard pill to swallow but Maori still own everything and this govt has no legal right to govern them.

@sallykemp1427

6 ай бұрын

Are you saying Mari give up there land what bit they have left, just because Mari have land some are still waiting to partition land off to build. Why don’t you look in your own back yard with these councils and see whats really going on. A lady wanted to build a house next door to her old house. No they said pull your old house down.

@cullenkehoe5184

6 ай бұрын

@@Thewandereringanzac nah man. If that is true...watch investment and people start to leave the country in droves and there will be only sheep left. Either everyone has the same rights or there will be only racial strife and violence, fighting ovrt thr sheep that remain

@cullenkehoe5184

6 ай бұрын

@@sallykemp1427 nobody is saying that. Even the most extreme act folks are not saying that. People are saying they just want equal rights. One legal system. One government. That's all. Activists have conjured up.some idea that Maori own the land, water, minerals, oils, anything in thr ground nationwide...even in lands they don't own. They say they still own it even though they don't. And they want a different legal.system to govern them and their own upper house of Parliament (unelected of course)

Forged upon the absolute moral categories of the Bible but never practiced consistent with the biblical text. Furthermore, it ignored the ancient ones that watched both boat people's arrive then claim the country.

I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER TO BE LEAVING NZ . NZ IS OFFICIALLY effffd 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

@MyNic28

5 ай бұрын

Where do you go that's any better, though?

@buyhiselllow2767

5 ай бұрын

@@MyNic28 aussie because they don't put up with this garbage 👌

@MyNic28

5 ай бұрын

yeah, but Aussie have got their own issues. Have you looked into what's been going on with Australia Day, etc. It's crazy over there to, unfortunately 😔

@MyNic28

5 ай бұрын

You are definitely right about NZ tho 😞

Brilliant Michael

The Treaty will tear this country appart within the next 20 years

@StGammon77

5 ай бұрын

Or balance it out

I suppose it was born out of our anti apartheid stance on South Africa. Today we look back at that movement and think, “What were we thinking?” The African royalty took over the other Africans who remained in the ghettos. The only thing that changed was black faces behind the guns instead of white faces. Today many Maori continue to live in poverty despite so-called reparations. This treaty nonsense reached the height of ridiculousness when Moriori made a claim. These descendants of Moriori didn’t sue Maori for their extermination as a race and enslavement yet had the audacity to make a claim. When will the gravy train end?

Frankenstein's nuts and bolts are rusty outdated and a hazard....time for an upgrade to Titanium alloys and carbon fibre...bring on the New World and irrelevance to all this past nonsense and ambiguity....

Even if we were to take the english version as a point of issue, rangatiratanga was guaranteed by the queen ,if maori was to hold her to this then anything she said in that treaty❤ was her bound word,,, after that when those treaty princible were broken ,who's to say her word isn't doggy doo doo ,,who can say her words of guarantee are worth a hill of beans ,,,the answer is the new zealand parliament,,, thats who,, ,they were the ones that see the treaty as divisive and non inclusive ,they were the ones who lost faith in the queens ability to make decisions on their behalf,,,and effectively saying we are not taking this doccument seriously and we are not going to listen to you ,we're going to make our own laws ,,,it is now a known result that,,, ,and this is important to remember, up to 1835 new zealand was under the control of a governor and the new south wales government so in order to form its own government new zealand settlers and colonisers needed to have the will of the people or unfettered consent of ths people hence the need for a treaty in the first place ,so if the will of the people was not deemed lawful and binding then why run around the country in the first place trying to bullshit anyone,to sign the damn thing. ,,rectify the wrongs of the treaty ratify the injustices on it and identify the protection provisions under thar treaty for all ,,whanau,,, pakeha or tauiwi,,,so say i ,,,,,

The one thing Michael missed is the protests undertaken by Maori that raised the nation's consciousness to their plight.

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. They were never happy with how the treaty has played out. What if someone said the contract on your house was of historical interest only.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

We have more important plight that effect all, 50k went to the Parliament occupation last year as a united freedom collective of all types and were called a river of filth. But Maori can do a haka and have their whining on National TV, we got tired of it in the 80s and now it's a mind boggling nightmare that maoris seem to be enjoying provoking with racist attacks daily they suck and do not have the same united spirit.

@les8518

6 ай бұрын

What plight?

@StGammon77

5 ай бұрын

Raised Satan you mean

Great speech , Michael: The treaty is not the foundation document. But I think you are mistaken in saying it’s between the Crown and Maori. It was between the Crown and rangatira ( chiefs) who were concerned to retain their control over their tribes. The Maori King said last week to Mr Luxon that the exact words must be applied. That means the chiefs get sole authority over their tribes today but not over any pakeha. ( so co governance is forbidden under the Treaty). I think we should let that happen, and see how ordinary Maori like chiefs deciding everything for them.

@lindamckenzie6500

6 ай бұрын

Should be interesting

@JoJoKaat

6 ай бұрын

That may be the only thing that could shut the radicals up.

You are wrong. The treaty joined two peoples together as one upon signing.

@StGammon77

6 ай бұрын

Proven by the fact we did join as one people, marrying, having newly created offspring it was a very successful evangelical Treaty.

Mate. I will vote for you! Lets become a republic.

What a bitter old dude

@heywopics7485

5 ай бұрын

Heard of The God Delusion?

Let's see where Luxon and Willis's agenda takes us eh !

@barneyboy2008

6 ай бұрын

No where, if they follow standard National operating procedure.

Michael you aren't wearing an Obey mask how can that ever be ok?😂

Well said

Absolutely perfect

Thanks, we'll explained. Certainly simplifies the arguments well.

I dont like Seymour but i agree with him on this matter.

About time we abolished this out of date stupid document and get on as one people Who wins with bullshit Not the majority just the people of Māori blood who have the hand out

Thank you Michael for pointing a finger at the demise of Heartland New Zealand.

@iammattbarker

6 ай бұрын

The romantic notion of the glory days of "Heartland New Zealand" overlooks that it existed for barely 100 years. Prior to which it would have been called something very different. Probably heartland maoridom. Before it was stolen from them.

@myresponsesarelimited7895

6 ай бұрын

Neolibralism gutted this country far worse than any colonial ever did, but now I'm the boogeyman🤔😁

Define a Maori for me in our current day and age. There are none except watered down versions of multiple races including but not limited to English, German, Asian including Indian, Chinese, Philippine etc etc and many more that are now more prominent blood lines than their original ancestry. You here claims being made on ancestral rights, are those the English or the Maori side of things or issues that will garner the most taxpayer money for doing the least. The Treaty of Waitangi is totally outdated given the amount of bastard bloodlines now running around and what we really need now is just one constitutional document encompassing all people who claim birth rights or citizenship to New Zealand. Just my thoughts but I think I’m pretty much on the money with how most people think today.

@AlbertWaiapu

Ай бұрын

Yip bastard bloody lines is you fken pakeha cunts yes your right

So contracts dont mean anything according to ML thoery 😂

You argue that after 1860ish the treaty did not mean anything , that is your opinion. your whole argument is an opinion based bias perspective. The document s status is warranted. The signatures after the 6th were defacto .... they did d not matter . Your perspective is very weak

Best prime minister we never had ! NZ missed a huge opportunity 😢

The Government needs to be taken to court for misrepresentation of the people of NZ for decades of incompetence in Infrastructure, Health, Education etc

@REwing

6 ай бұрын

You will have to include the Deep state of America, they are pulling the strings of our marionette government !!

Lets say you over hear 2 friends having a heated discussion that is leading towards the friendship either being lost or its bridges being burnt to a point of near no return, both sides have their valid points and 'evidence' for why they are more right or less wrong than the other. Do you, A. Ignore them leaving them to a passionate fateful conclusion B. Intervein and remind them they are friends and need some middle ground Or C. Rark them up so you can watch a good old fashion punch up I think if someone dosnt offer middle ground then back and forth is all youll ever get, unless you win said dust up then you can say youre more right and less wrong so fuck up and fuck off.

One of the fundamental roadblocks to progress, regarding the issue of Maoridom, is the civil service. They seem to go their own way and according to their own 'woke narrative' and foot drag or artificially put up barriers to progress. Regarding the Māori vs. the English versions, at the end of the day all accepted British sovereignty and in doing so, along with it comes the English language regarding the law.

@dgm2593

6 ай бұрын

WRONG! Those Warrior Chiefs did not cede sovereignty. They agreed to a partnership not ownership.

@Thewandereringanzac

6 ай бұрын

Where does it say they ceded sovereignty bro? It doesn’t. They only gave the queen kawanatanga which is governorship. Everything else stayed with Maori.

@God-Zin-uru

6 ай бұрын

@@dgm2593 were you there?

@dgm2593

6 ай бұрын

@@God-Zin-uru yes those Warrior Chiefs are my direct family.

@God-Zin-uru

6 ай бұрын

@@dgm2593 if we all go back far enough...they're called ancestors. But that doesn't mean we know how they lived what they said let alone how they thunk!🤔

Noones changed it because they cant you racist

Yes, agree with a lot of this. We need to just forget about the Treaty and base the country on something coherent instead.

Thank you Michael; yes the old Michael from the wonderful University of Otago! SCRUM! More importantly what you have been saying is 100% correct. Unfortunately the current course of action will destroy this country>

Too bad your grandchildren are already speaking te reo and love it! They have happily embraced the new world, a place that terrifies most Neanderthals and racists. When your lot dies out, in say th3 next decade, NZ will have progressed ahead, and embraced Ti Tiriti, Te Reo, Tikanga. Matauranga, because the future belongs to the brave.

The 2 people's was Maori and Tau iwi. Tau iwi means any people other than Maori.

@StGammon77

5 ай бұрын

We don't consent