Full podcast episode: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gaecko-DY7eYnrw.html Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzread.info Guest bio: Edward Frenkel is a mathematician at UC Berkeley working on the interface of mathematics and quantum physics. He is the author of Love and Math: The Heart of Hidden Reality.

@patrickdodge916

Жыл бұрын

The argument that time is an illusion when a person gets so invested in something that they lose their sense of time doesn't make sense. Even though a person doesn't feel the hours pass, doesn't mean the hours didn't pass. Time can't be an illusion when everything that exists depends on it. Everything has an age. A person's thoughts take time to form. Something randomly popping into existence takes time to do so. If a quark has a spin, how fast is its revolution, because that takes time as well. Experience takes time. Everything depends on Time.

@patrickdodge916

Жыл бұрын

@T-webb But light is a byproduct, and not necessarily essential, unlike Time, which I believe is essential to everything that can exist. If Time is an illusion, then everything is an illusion, but that would be a paradox. The existence of the illusion would still be bound to time. For anything to exist, "illusion, thought, or material, etc..." it must have a beginning and end. Nothing is eternal. Motion is Time, and everything that exists is in motion. The way I see it right now, he has it backwards. Time is reality, while infinity is the illusion. Infinity just means we don't yet understand or comprehend the mathematics needed to identify the scale of that which is labeled infinite. Also, if Time is an illusion, then we by extension are also an illusion. If we are an illusion, living in an illusion, then what/who are we an illusion to? If we are an illusion living in an illusion, then aren't we just existing in our reality?

@patrickdodge916

Жыл бұрын

@T-webb I think Light and Time would be a false equivalent. Your thought experiment didn't make sense to me. I'm saying Time is essential to everything. I think I've explained why. All I get from the experiment is that you're basically saying that if you take the light away, life still goes on. This doesn't offer me any kind of examples that would compare to if Time was taken away. Time is relative, like you said. Everything has its own Time, and Time is also connected to scale. I guess I'm failing to understand the idea that anything can exist without time, and I'm arguing against your thought experiment showing me otherwise. I'm trying to find an explanation that would help me understand how Time could be an illusion. I just can't see it.

@patrickdodge916

Жыл бұрын

@T-webb yes because growth/movement can only happen in time. If everything in the universe stopped, then time will have stopped in that universe, but for whatever space that universe is in (like an island in an ocean), time will not have necessarily stopped. Everything has its own "time/age".

@patrickdodge916

Жыл бұрын

@T-webb It should, but for some reason I think it will be more like dissipation. I'm thinking of the universe kind of like a foreign matterial being introduced into a flowing/spinning medium. Maybe like a syringe injecting materials into a blood stream, mixing and dissipating into the flowing blood, disseminating into the various parts of the body. I hope this is a good enough analogy to help visualize what I'm describing... although from a "higher" perspective, scale wise, the bubble may seem to "burst." I think our fabric of reality is the layer that divides the inside from the outside of the "bubble".

Love this guest. Not much he talked about, but issues he did address, very objective, precise and open-minded. Thank you, both.

@hamdoolam

Жыл бұрын

He spoke very subjectively too about experiments and science also

@huzab2945

8 ай бұрын

You listen to a lot of Jordan Peterson :)

@anitachu29

8 ай бұрын

@@huzab2945 Do I?

Professor Frenkel gives us another view of the inescapable paradox we find ourselves fighting with and marveling at all of our lives. In a sense, once we first get an inkling of what time is, from that moment on, everything becomes goalposts that we must kick the ball through to get through another minute, hour, day or month and especially, a year. We see the trace of time on our faces as photos in a drawer that were forgotten, suddenly cause us to pause and hold our breath in seeing what we looked like all those years ago. It is always unkind to us as it steals our youth, robs our beauty, dulls our minds and finally kills us off with toxins that find the weakest organ of choice and transform our bodies back to dust. Time is our master, but we master time as well...

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

"We" being you and which direct immediate identifiable interlocutor? Is there a we?

@tekannon7803

Жыл бұрын

@@vhawk1951kl GGGGGGGGGGGGGreat to hear from you. You got me on that one, we being you is not my call and I should have owned up to we being me.

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

@@tekannon7803 well done you; the next stage is to grasp that in the premises you have no immediate interlocutor and thus "we" only possibly be imaginary, but I have high hopes that a ready wit such as yours will have no difficulty following that

@ghostwalk2446

22 күн бұрын

Jesus dude, rough day or are you always this miserable? ​@@vhawk1951kl

Now that was a great conversation

I had a NDE and was told that everything is made of love and light and everything else is illusion. Apparently numbers and songs are how they communicate with us so I’ve been obsessed with numbers since 😬

@schmarpsywinkleurnklabean659

Жыл бұрын

Your NDE was a dream or a lie. Nobody comes back from the dead Einstein.

@xaviervelascosuarez

Жыл бұрын

​@@schmarpsywinkleurnklabean659 NDE means "near death experience," nobody is arguing about coming back from death, Einstein.

@uberhaxonova

Жыл бұрын

@@xaviervelascosuarez i had a pot brownie that was 50x the normal amount ur supposed to consume, had a whole experience, banged 3 billion different people in 5 minutes, crazy

@schmarpsywinkleurnklabean659

Жыл бұрын

@autoflowerlover "Someday you will find me, caught inside a landslide, in a champagne supernova in the sky." -Oasis

@SuperMaDBrothers

Жыл бұрын

this comment string is nuts. everyone who responded is insane except (possibly) the first guy.

The "marching forward of time" is an abstraction related to our experience of change, which is in turn the result of what is actual and physically real: things in motion. Mathematics and geometry are essentially measurements, and just as there are no meters in a road or grams in a stone, there is no math or geometry "in" the universe, just in the minds and findings of mathematicians and geometers.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

True

Good of him to take the time to explain all of that. I can’t waste my time to hear it though.

@gregliles6387

Жыл бұрын

Yet you took the time to reply.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

That's cuz your iq is so low that you'd have to listen to it 5 or 6 times before you could reiterate what the conversation was even about.

Time seems to me to be the byproduct of changing phases, not a force of itself, but more so like the center of a whirlpool that is not there but yet still is only because of the shape which whirls around it. We as conscious entities that record memory can see each iteration and our mind recreates the illusion of time for us. “Time” is a name for the vortex of all processes simultaneously merging. I like the last point that you make, Lex, about consciousness forming on earth and its’ quality of keeping memory as something it seems to “love” generating.

@bowold3976

9 ай бұрын

Interesting. Just for the sake of conversation. Do you think we really record our memory? " Set down in writing or some other permanent form for later reference". I could argue that we don't for multiple reasons. For one humans are generally horrible at accurately remembering events. We tend to construct a memory based off how we felt the situation happened or how we wanted it to turn out filling in blank spots with whatever our defaults may be. Also where does this information or memory go when we die? Does it disappear or is it stored in the collective cosmos concisness? Does it stay with your soul what happens?

Great stuff 😊

My body ageing is not an illusion

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

That is too funny! Those were my initial thoughts.

@peterdp654

Жыл бұрын

Then you need to move at the speed of light. Then you will be able to slow your aging 😮

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

@@peterdp654 That's probably true.

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

The problem is not in the body that is aging. The problem is that one has the illusion of remembering that the body was, at one time, much younger, less painful and more agile.

@vasiliskoats

Жыл бұрын

That's because of gravity.. Gravity ain't an illusion..!!

I can listen to this guy talk all day long

They’ve done experiments involving a small digital display that flashes an arbitrary number, say 50. This display’s flicker rate is too fast for the human eye to see the number, when a person is just standing there look at it. Now, they have the same person climb to an elevated height, hold the display out in front of themselves and jump into a net below - as they fall they look at the display, and presto, they can read the number. They suspect, “being in the zone” is this phenomenon of time slowing down.

@trinidad111

Жыл бұрын

Time doesn’t slow down the brain speeds up. And the free fall into the net experience, they didn’t get 100% accuracy. It’s interesting but not what you’re claiming

@johndrake3472

Жыл бұрын

@@trinidad111 Exactly what I’m wondering on, is this a distinction without a difference?! - since time is relative. The idea of eternity being the substrate for everything else, including time, is an interesting one - still, I’m a layman on these matters with little insight, I have no answers.

@trinidad111

Жыл бұрын

@@johndrake3472 listen to Rupert Spira I think you’d enjoy it.

@johndrake3472

Жыл бұрын

@@trinidad111 Thanks, I will

@trinidad111

Жыл бұрын

@@johndrake3472 kzread.info/dash/bejne/fJmfwaiogquyabg.html

No I’m not late boss, because you ain’t even real ok? Now, about that very real raise I asked you about…

@hgfdsplkcm9734

Жыл бұрын

time is money so your raise is not gonna happen

@T3aR3Drop

Жыл бұрын

88 🎹 🎞

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

​@@hgfdsplkcm9734 yup!

It's all so simple. There are four coordinates for every bit of information. What we experience is the participation on three given coordinates, with the fourth being swapped for one of the three and back again to another. Think of it as X,Y,and Z, in which one of those coordinates changes to T, and then T changes back again. When the change is made, the information is what we call a wave. When the change is made again, it's what we perceive as a particle. All information is bound by an existence with three given coordinates, with T alternating with either X or Y or Z. This alternation can be thought of as a vibration.

We need to start giving the origins of Zen Buddhism some credit in these types of conversations.

Mathematics is a language that communicate relationships, but you need time, intuition and inspiration to discover those relationship. It is like saying all the people in the future will all be English speakers. Mathematics just expresses ideas more precisley and accurately than English. You can take the proof of infinite primes as an example. I can explain in it in English but only the mathematical statement is self-evident and verifiable.

If time is not real and history continues to repeat itself.. what remains constant? Human interactions, human reactions during similar economic and political environments or cycles

3:51 Within Hinduism, it is believed that there is no such concept of time as we know it. Existence is eternity, and we only delve into the realm of time or timekeeping when we become a part of a universe (i.e. we are born and living). Another related concept is that everything is cyclical, meaning that we are born with this body and with our relationships, but once we die, we shed this body and those relationships. Then once again, we embody a new body. Same cyclical nature is applied to a universe. There are infinite universes that are created and destroyed at different points in time. Outside of a universe, however, there's just existence. But once a universe is pushed into motion/creation, until its death, we keep time to make sense of different aspects of life within that universe. And a point of clarification regarding the illusion of existence, etc., is that everything is real, but it's all temporary apart from our conscious selves (along with God, choicest devotee, governors of each universe, and base material from which universes are made, if you believe in such things).

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

The more we find out about our reality, the more concepts like this start to sound believable.

@chinnpatel

Жыл бұрын

@@effjesse_ we're just rediscovering everything over and over again. Nothing is ever truly new. It just feels new because we're placed into our lives/relationships by God and through our past actions/karma. Unpopular truth 🤷🏻‍♂️

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

@@chinnpatel idk if I believe that, but in the religion which I was raised, there's a famous book that begins with... "Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun? One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

@@chinnpatel ironically, we remember his words.

@chinnpatel

Жыл бұрын

@@effjesse_ beautiful verses. Within Hinduism there is a concept of karma and rebirth - meaning what you sow is what you reap. And as the eternal Jiva (ourselves/roughly translates to soul) enters a new body, for example a human baby, we are aware of everything from our past and present. And during birth, the baby is made to forget all of that. In short, we're inheritors of ingenuity and excellence, but get bogged down by day-to-day bullshit lol.

Velocity of light doesn’t change instead more light is seen in more time. Time is an observation. Gravitational time dilation (measured) makes the external observer see an object experience less time progression. The universe can look at an object not progressing in time, but the time dilated object always sees information from the universe such as light arrive at the same velocity where events seen are elongated in time, and since there is no 0 limit from the internal perspective the gravitational time dilation allows an illusion of information incoming from a temporary predicted future, and when time dilation ends internal perspective sees the information from the present retaining future information since the universe couldn’t progress into the same future yet, causality was an illusion of time, and one perspective seen information from the future, so events become changeable. If you froze, you would also freeze the gravity interaction needed to keep you frozen, so you don’t freeze, instead a temporary future is seen while the inverse perspective has a limit of seeing you frozen as it’s not interacting with the gravity. Same with velocity time dilation. Universe not experiencing gravity has a limit of seeing velocity of an object make it progress in time less into a 0 limit, and this velocity is the speed of light/gravity. Extra dimensions can see future information while being in a quantum superposition that sometimes is quantum entangled with the expanding universe time present, and then that temporary future is already a bridge while being in future locations of future space, where you can become intangible from the universe perspective, as the universe has a limit of seeing 0, while the objects true location is ahead in time, and therefore within a future location of space that the universe can’t measure from it’s perspective.

@sr4087

Жыл бұрын

Meds

@gp6676

Жыл бұрын

So what I got out of that is that time is most definitely not an illusion and they were wrong just cause our perception of time may change. Time is still a universal force

@nickduplaga507

Жыл бұрын

@@gp6676 Your vision is 2 dimensional (paper), yet you live in 3 dimensional space (sphere) that has depth. Your brain creates the illusion with your eyes capable of seeing only a limited perspective. The illusion is simply perspective, and it’s as real as it can be. Quantum superposition can exist through time. Through gravitational time dilation (gravity interaction) if an object progress through time at a rate of less than 0 the universe has a limit of only seeing 0 hence the object enters a quantum superposition through time. Less than 0 is possible because the observer can’t freeze in time as freezing would stop the gravity interaction, and without gravitational time dilation the observer can’t freeze in time to begin with. Universe sees object progress less in time while the object sees the inverse of time dilation seeing the universe progress more in time. The time dilation inverse of universe not seeing the less than 0 time progression object is the object seeing more time progression of the universe into seeing future information. When you return into seeing the present again exiting the quantum superposition because the universe can observe you progressing in time above 0, you changing events won’t break causality because the universe’s limited perspective couldn’t experience those events yet. The weird one is if that observer somehow interact with the future while seeing the future there could be quantum entanglement causing something to move in our present, where people will think the place is haunted. Another weird one is that an observer in their time dilated perspective that can’t freeze will be observing the more time progressing universe while they still see the incoming light arriving at the same velocity staying below the velocity of light, and events in the universe elongated in time, so the experience is longer not faster while progressing less through time from gravitational time dilation. Usefully using gravitational pull to dilate time the time can be dilated without increasing velocity for example by sitting between two gravitational pulls will net 0 velocity gain while time dilation happens, so no energy is required to accelerate because you wouldn’t be overcoming inertia, and best of all the object can be stationary while progress less through time, and the object sees the inverse where the universe progresses more. So we don’t need much energy, or velocity, and instead simply need a strong probably near artificial gravitational pull, and some simple geometry to obtain future information, and exist in a intangible quantum superposition state that can pass safely through space rocks, while traveling at a velocity that is faster than light because space can travel faster than light, and the object disappears from the universes limited perspective, while creating a bridge through seeing the future in it’s perspective, and when it can be measured by the external perspective universe it’s materialized while traveling a long distance while progressing in time at a rate of less than 0.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

I love this. But is it really just a temporary future? If so that implies that it's false, and the "seeing" being done is just an extrapolation of present state information, not an accurate representation of the real future. I don't understand quantum mechanics at all, so you lose me with superposition and entanglement, and because I don't understand it I assume it's wrong :). I also like how this opens with the observation that TIME is a phenomena of observation, also implying that time didn't exist in the way we think of it before some period in the evolution of life. That's also why I find Buddhist-esque statements, like "consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe", to actually be fairly plausible.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

@@sr4087why, is there something wrong with you?

Has anyone created an idea around time absoluteness. That the experience of time is localized in a sense. Where time has already technically ended at any given point but we view it from the inside out. Like a needle dropping onto a record, our experience of time begins. Since we only see and hear what is hitting the needle for that time it would appear there was no past or future, just that moment, however the beginning middle and ends were already decided, it was simply us observing it in what we only think is real-time.

Enters LOVE : " ... Dear Edward, we are running not out of Time but of options available ... " Ya name'em All

What is the best way to learn math? I’m studying algebra onKZread, what can I do with it?

Time is truly an illusion, it is a measure of change, how would I know time has passed if my hair never grew, the sun never set, I never got hungry,

Maybe our minds are set up in that way to operate, conceptualise in this reality as we perceive it, but at the core, we are spiritual, meaning some parts of our being, without confines of brain, exist in eternity. Actually, C.G.Jung postulated it based on his personal and clinical experiences with numerous people he analized. I'm impressed by wisdom and insights coming from this conversation.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

As an animist, I believe that everything is made up of spiritual material, including the laws of the universe, and that our observable reality is just a UI.

By definition, an "illusion" must unfold and take place over time. Even a "concept" is something that necessitates time to be conceived. "Time is an illusion..." but it took me time to realize it, to write it, and you to read it and to laugh about it.

I've long wondered what GR "really" says if we take Kant's POV and space and time are perceptual. Then is GR a theory of language? I think most of us agree there's something under the hood. Space and Time are stupid weird

KZread says this video is 8 minutes, but it felt like 2 minutes.

Lex, I would highly recommend trying to get Douglas Hofstadter on the podcast!!!!

Our own perception of time is illusory but Time is real. Atomic Clocks in planes go slower than those on the ground, despite the fact that their internal mechanisms are exactly the same. As machines do not measure illusions, that discrepancy would not occur if time was just an illusion. Not only the relativity of time, but also its REALITY is mind-blowing.

Just one tiny 'correcting comment' on what was said: So far, the most sophisticated available measurements of the overall 4D geometry of our universe has told us that it is perfectly flat. Who knows but the measurment might have been too 'myopic' for any other of the 3 conceivable 4D-geometries to have been detectable (including the 'most satisfying' 😉 closed curvature).

I know that time's a man-made idea to organise ourselves and I'd be lost without it 😮

@thingsthatmakemego-ooh

Жыл бұрын

@@joshualienhardt what are you trying to say?

@thingsthatmakemego-ooh

Жыл бұрын

@@joshualienhardt 😂😂😂

I can't resist doing this, knowing very well no one will take it seriously (that's part of the fun): Yes, time _is_ an illusion, and so is space. But that is only because both are created _locally_ (“frame perspective”) by condensed matter and local fields slicing up a more fundamental distance-squared (actually, length-duration to us) metric. Go below the local spacetime resolution, and you get quantum mechanics. Expand beyond the point where all clocks are in synch - that is, to the point where the combination of motion and internal binding creates multiple observer frames - and you get special relativity. Within such finite-extent regions, the very fact they have boundaries also means they have finite resolutions. Anything too detailed becomes math noise - bugs, really - created by overgeneralizing the effectiveness of the pre-quantum, pre-relativity maths of the 1700s and 1800s. These maths generalized classical xyzt physics in the belief it was "deeper" than dumb-old ordinary matter. The sad truth is that neither dimensions nor orthogonalities are free, including the ones in math. That's because these "simple" concepts don't even exist at large scales without the availability of clumpier, mostly-bound forms of condensed matter, in particular atoms, to help create them. Any maths that ignore the local nature of space and time inevitably generate dreadful levels of information-is-free noise that has nothing to do with experimental physics. The observable universe is the only formal model we have that both works and manages to avoid paradoxes- and _that_ system is profoundly averse to infinities.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

I take it seriously and I'm glad you shared. However, what if eternities/infinities and also non-existence don't "exist" as things, but literally just as conceptual places, and that is enough to effect all of space, time and matter, creating the arrow of time?

@TerryBollinger

Жыл бұрын

I like that. Your well-stated counter points out the uniqueness and likely _necessity,_ of the xyzt formalism emerging before _information_ - history, entropy - can emerge. In return, I would ask you to consider this: Why should that critical construct _already_ exist within some abstract, inexplicably “given” domain? Since we see only an _approximation_ of xyzt, one sufficient to enable the classical niche upon which life is highly dependent, why not instead assume we exist _in the middle of its construction,_ that is, that we have co-emerged with the universe coming up with this exceptionally clever math via its physical approximation? I don’t say that casually because I suspect that what we think of as particle physics is better understood as a sequence of less powerful universes that added persistence in incremental steps. Those steps led to the first universe capable of implementing the xyzt approximation needed for life. I would, for example, argue that what we think of as time is a three-part composition of lesser times that are as real as the color force but incapable _by themselves_ of creating information and history [1][2]. My first version of increasing-complexity universes was a dual-universe (Jennifer Chen and Sean Carroll first had that idea in 2004 [3]; my version was 2007; others came later) version of Roger Penrose’s Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) [4]. However, after reading Thomas Hertog’s intriguing new book on the origins of time [5], I’m leaning toward framing the universe-scale increasing-complexity cycles as hierarchies of timeless and timebound embeddings, which I’ve called Matryoshka embeddings [6]. That, too, would require a dual universe since the persistent feature of all scales of emergent phenomena appears to be net cancellation to the previous state, albeit with a vastly delayed fuse for universes. The two critical points I’ve gotten out of all of this are: (1) The need for a classical-like, real-continuum mathematical reality that enables information emergence and, through that, xyzt spacetime and the emergence of life and sentience. That’s a solid guiding principle; thank you. (2) The counterpoint: At best, the required real-continuum math is a newly created pseudo-math that barely has a toehold on our universe. Fortunately for us, it’s enough of a toehold to enable life. Furthermore, the construction of this xyzt pseudo-math is far too complicated to qualify as a “primary” mathematical reality. I say “toehold” because real-continuum math is, at best, a pseudo-math that _pretends_ to be self-consistent. Within our quantum and relativistic universe, it approximates the degree of formality needed to enable long-term information persistence and life. However, it does so only within shockingly narrow Goldilocks regions of space, time, and matter. I say “too complicated” because, well, it is. What’s going on a level or two down is a nearly continuous timeless rescaling of bound loops at multiple scales (think power laws). When teased into observability at the single-particle level, this rescaling effect is the same one notoriously labeled “wave collapse” by the early quantum founders. When combined into spiraling loops, this rescaling effect enables the emergence of consistent, reproducible units of duration and length in an otherwise scale-free universe. Notably, the simplest scale-creating spiral processes require three orthogonal pre-time units - picture a stairwell with a triangular profile when viewed from above to understand why. Thus there’s a deeper geometric reason why, in a universe with causal time flow, information persistence, and living observers, the number “three” shows up in both the number of space dimensions and the number of pre-electric-emergence color charges. All of that is _way_ too complicated to label the result - causal time - “fundamental.” ---------- [1] T. Bollinger, _On Quantizing General Relativity: An Overview,_ Apabistia Notes 2022-04-21.1039 (2022). sarxiv.org/apa.2022-04-21.1039.pdf [2] T. Bollinger, _On the Colours of Time,_ Apabistia Notes 2022-07-19.1900 (2022). sarxiv.org/apa.2022-07-19.1900.pdf [3] S. M. Carroll and J. Chen, _Spontaneous Inflation and the Origin of the Arrow of Time,_ arXiv Preprint Hep-Th/0410270 (2004). arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0410270 [4] R. Penrose, _Cycles of Time: An Extraordinary New View of the Universe_ (Random House, 2010).. uninomade.net/wp-content/files_mf/1324349139FinalCyclesofTimeEnhancedCD.pdf [5] T. Hertog, _On the Origin of Time: Stephen Hawking’s Final Theory_ (Random House LCC US, 2023). [6] T. Bollinger, _Photons as Observers and the Emergence of Scale,_ Apabistia Notes 2023-04-21.1715 (2023). sarxiv.org/apa.2023-04-21.1715.pdf (a PDF copy of this 2023-05-05 comment is available at sarxiv dot org slash apa)

@ErickRoberto-sy5xt

2 ай бұрын

We're just playing language

@TerryBollinger

2 ай бұрын

​@@ErickRoberto-sy5xtyes; effective scientific discourse requires discipline: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6Khz9ukma25fag.htmlsi=qB2iPjbvRaKNXAOG&t=1m28s

It’s frequency at its core; light. Patterns, waves, and fields.

This is metaphysics. We've exited science and entered philosophy.

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

Well to be more exact, maths are not science.

From Einstein's Special Relativity we learn that a consequence of the invariant speed of light is relativity of simultaneity. Observers in relative motion generally do not agree on what is happening "now." Therefore all events in spacetime are eternal; past, present, and future are all equally real; and our sense of the passage of time is an illusion.

“Psychedelic mushroom user explains to mathematician he’s known time is an illusion for decades”-Me

@stevewilson9778

Жыл бұрын

Yup.

There are radically different ways to interpret or understand time. Case in point, Albert Einstein didn’t receive the Nobel prize in physics for his work on relativity because of this man, Henri Bergson. Because Bergson’s theory of time stood on the way. Check out duration (French: la durée. It’s a theory of time and consciousness posited by the French philosopher Henri Bergson.

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

There is no evidence that Henri Bergson was the reason that Einstein didn't get the Nobel for relativity. That is a myth. It was much more probable that it had to do with all the anti-Semite movements at the time.

@sirairili1570

Жыл бұрын

Bergson dont sound French. Sounds like a Swedish last name to me.

@jamesbuttery3862

Жыл бұрын

Time is... ..the Persistence of Existence.

It is a sad and a fact (AFAIK) that the only rational (or common sensical) explanation for why subatomic entities seem to have prior 'knowedge' of what type of detection method is going to be used to detect them as either waves or particles is that absolutely every energy patterning process/event is naturally predetermined.😕

Do companies really believe if they don’t a commercial a week that their product will be forgotten. Like we see you on every corner do we really need commercials for KZread

Time is not an illusion, but it does not move either. Time is an anomaly, an exceptional state of affairs, like a parenthesis in eternity to allow for change. We tend to think of time as causing change, but it does not. Change is the confluence of an ever decaying matter and the free will of human beings. Time is both the possibility for change and the static reference that allows us to appreciate change and movement, just like the trees along the road, that appear to move, but it is us moving. Time doesn't change: we change.

How do we know the bending of light around stars is due to gravitational lensing and not refraction through the stellar atmosphere?

@xonious9031

Жыл бұрын

He seems to think it can be proven with math

@astroswell

7 ай бұрын

Because stars don't have long-ranging atmosphere and also any refraction due to some chemical elements will be visible on the spectroscopy. No matter refracts things unnoticed. (only if it's not a "dark matter" 😅)

@rossim22

7 ай бұрын

@@astroswell of course they do. They have a corona, no?

@astroswell

7 ай бұрын

@@rossim22 right, they do. Anyway if something is refracted it usually affects the specter of the light, because refraction is essentially absorbing photon and emitting a new one in different direction. And I guess refection takes place and accounted for because we know by how much ismt should refractor stuff. Also gravitational lensing is much more evident from the galaxies. I don't think there's a thing like a galaxy atmosphere and when you see the images, no refraction can fuck up the light in such a way 😄

Rather than saying time as an illusion can we say it's a primitive technology created by mind with its sibling called space. Mind is the most primitive technology created and evolved from consciousness and on top of it space is created with the aid of senses, which in turn created time to measure the duration of navigation of space. In a material context, We have this interview for 1 hour duration and it's defined by us for our optimal use of body and mind.

@xonious9031

Жыл бұрын

Here is another wrinkle to that 10,000 years ago quote primitive man had a brain that was larger than modern man By the size of one lemon

Nabokov used to say he didn't believe in time.

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that time also began to not believe in Nabokov. Was it in July 2, 1977?

@goodToBeLost

Жыл бұрын

@@estranhokonsta Good one :p Just curious, did you look up the date though :p

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

@@goodToBeLost I confess that i did have to check it out. And fortunately so. My failing memory would have made a total mess of it, if i had tried to guess it.

Who else is Edward referring to at 4:14? William Blake is a writer so doesn't really count since I imagine he wouldn't be able to empirically explain why his experience of time might be the fundamental truth, although intuitively he might be correct. Of course, scientists are more rigorous than that.

@xonious9031

Жыл бұрын

What is all of this stuff about Kronos and Saturn... Looking into that might be a good starting point

Is gravity a Force?

How much time did it take him to say that, if its an illusion, it didnt take any time at all.

I still feel science should show more proof of round earth than just what is available now

Time is a flat circle ⭕️

everybody will be programmer. And math is algorithm. You get input and instruction to calculate output

Actually some people who get brain damage or have disease that need to get special surgery on brain perceive time and realty in another alien vision! For example people who go through Corpus Callosotomy due to chronic atonic seizures can't function as a single individual at times and their left and right hemisphere perceives time and sensory inputs in different ways! A minute for one side is like a second for the other! And their different hands have conflicting behavior in some situations! They are not like that all the time though! Only if it was possible to see things other than through our brain filter!!!

Time is a concept describing the change of matter. Even "time units" are relative to real life , material events. for example: 1 year is one round of the earth around the sun, which is 365 days , and each day is 24 hours and each hour is 60 minutes and etc, as you can see it all relates to the relationship between the earth and the sun. A light year is a distance that take light to travel in one year. If it would of take the earth twice the time to do one round around the sun our year would be longer and a light year travel a longer distance. Try to explain what is an hour or a day or a year in an empty space. You can't because there are no events to base them on.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

We experience time as a passing thing, but the reality is that it's eternal and each moment is happening forever. Or all at once, you could say, since it would all happen in less than the blink of an eye, without a conscious observer.

The biggest question is does it actually matter in the big scheme of things if! I don’t wash my hands 🙌 after 💩

Could it not be said that time is all there is and space is an illusion?

If time is an illusion, then velocity doesn't exist, and therefore we can travel faster than light. Right?

@Bpaynes

Жыл бұрын

Motion itself is an illusion, in the block universe nothing actually moves except the frame of reference which flashes by static still frames so fast that we get the "impression" of motion

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

@@Bpaynesdoes reality have "frames" though? Like why? I want to learn more about this idea.

So we are unable to recognize the true nature of time due to a physical handicap that is constructed into the brain itself

Tell that to my aging body! 😮

How is He Edward Frankel with such a strong russian accent? 😂😂 Is that an Artist name :)

You don't say, time is an illusion of what?

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

Of time?

Kind of a straw man since from what I gleaned, the mathematical universe hypothesis isn’t that “everything is mathematics.” It is that reality is isomorphic to a mathematical structure. Who knows its shape? Mathematicians. But who is a mathematician? Anyone curious about the objects of study of mathematics?

"Not just humans"

Time is not ill. Time is a union.😅

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

Please please tell me you are American, I would hate to imagine that any of my fellow Englishmen could possibly use those asinine little yellow things as if he was an imbecile child - or as you do

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

Illunion?

@levlevin182

Жыл бұрын

I'm just being a wise ass. Sorry.

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

@@levlevin182 A coincidence. I was being one to. No sorry needed. I though that your "word play" (i don't know the proper english label?) was kinda fun and interesting. I was just reinforcing it a little for those who were inattentive (normal state for most internet user 😋).

@levlevin182

Жыл бұрын

@@estranhokonsta word play, fun, yes, I agree, you & I are not sorrowful., We are compassionate.. I'm not a teacher so, explanation can be difficult. Thank you for your grateful understanding.✌️

legendary

Thanks for the video. But i must say that this title "Mathematician explains time is an illusion" is really inaccurate. This being KZread and given what we usually experience in it, i must add my pedantic remark. I will say that you are doing a disservice to Frenkel and to yourself with it. Most of us older listeners know your content, its quality and its style. And we can easily not waste much time or attention about the title or what it really means. But if i wasn't one (older listener), i would certainly classify this title as pure clickbait and borderline "false". A much better one would be something like "Mathematician explains how time can be seen as an illusion"

@cosimoxyx

Жыл бұрын

So true bro.

Time sucks.

I'm 28, when I was 16 years old alone in my bedroom I had great realizations. One of them was "time is a manmade unit of measurement, it doesn't actually exist"

@_kopcsi_

Жыл бұрын

which is of course a complete bullshit. we can measure time. we have extremely precise theories about it (actually every natural laws is built on the concept of time, what is more, Einstein's general relativity theory is an extremely successful theory about time). just because time is weird and we don't fully understand it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. just because probably mind is needed in order to perceive and conceive time, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. just because a 16 years old (high or not high) dude in the bed had "great realisations" and there are certain people who think that time is not real and it is just an "illusion", it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. thankfully reality doesn't give a shit if you believe in it or not.

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

A unit of measurement of what? You might like to try beginning with the very simple question exactly how do I experience time? - And what am I calling time? You stay in the shallow end sunshine, you are out of your depth this end

@kirillholt2329

Жыл бұрын

@@vhawk1951kl measurement of entropy

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

And were you satisfied with that particular meaningless formulation? You stopped there?

@whophead6837

Жыл бұрын

@@vhawk1951kl okay guy. Lemme ask you something simple. What the fuck is a second?

Feelings & Facts… is that what he is describing???

Or you could do acid

You have now entered the twilight zone.....

Lex, please get Christopher Langdon on. He is the man with the worlds highest IQ check out his book.

At the very end at the last few sentences, Lex explains the book of Genesis in a way even the atheist scientist would agree with...and he probably didn't even realise it.

@jdata

Жыл бұрын

Actually he just kinda said a lot of nonsense lol

The guy, "Lex" seems to be on caffeine!

isnt time just another tool?

The Earth is not a sphere. It's an oblate spheroid! I'm tired of all these sphere-Earthers!

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

Lol. Me think that the oblate-spheroid-Earthers would have a hard time proving their theories against sphere-Earthers. But it would give some fun (or tiresome) youtube video.

i swear these gius think they're so smart.. time is actually physical than any of us.. time is what makes 'gravity' work

This guy is an illusion! Prove me wrong!

@kdt85

Жыл бұрын

What guy?

@ricomajestic

Жыл бұрын

@@kdt85 That guy!

@nickduplaga507

Жыл бұрын

Your vision is 2 dimensions (paper) while space is 3 dimensions (sphere). Your brain create an illusion, but the object also actually exists. Similar time is limited by perspectives. One sees velocity of light not change, while events are being elongated in time, while the other sees an object experiencing less time with a one sided limit of observing a frozen object. The object can’t freeze in it’s perspective, because it would freeze the gravitational interaction that was needed to freeze the time, so they continue seeing information now from a temporary future universe, and causality is also an illusion of time. So your post can equally be an illusion of time. 🫡🫥

@ricomajestic

Жыл бұрын

@@nickduplaga507 Wrong!I think in an infinite number of dimensions.

@nickduplaga507

Жыл бұрын

@@ricomajestic Time progression always existed. With it time dilation always existed. With it energy transfer rates always existed. With it real objects need their own locations in space. But that guy is possibly maybe good at math, and bad at physics.

it would be cool if he could get this done in under 4 minutes. i don't have all day here.

math doesn't explain the world, it creates it on the go 😉

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

I think this too a lot, but I think math is our best EMULATION of the property that creates the world on the go.

Wrong. A theory is correct and perfectly compatible with the theory of relativity. B theory is wrong, time is NOT an illusion

only NPCs/zombies say that change could be an illusion and maybe it's all just an eternal block blah blah. fucking hilarious that we have to live with all these zombies.

Mathematics is an illusion... ;)

Time is a man made measurement

@estranhokonsta

Жыл бұрын

Every measurement, that man uses, are manmade. That doesn't mean that those thing that we try to measure aren't "real". The problem is that we never really know what we are trying to measure, but for most cases it is ok; as long as it somewhat works for the intended goal.

Time is a man made concept

Time describes the value of force, and math is a language 🌸

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

Who told you that and why do you believe them? Is there nothing original in you?

@bokoler9107

Жыл бұрын

Why do you interpret my comment as, nothing is original in me? I don't see your ideology?

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

@@bokoler9107 plainly English is not your first language, so see if you can find an Englishman to explain to you what "ideology" means - is not something that you or anyone can see. . Is that you stole that from someone else you not? - There is no way that you could have come up with that remark of your own motion mainly because you have not the faintest idea what it means

@bokoler9107

Жыл бұрын

Did the "value of force" trigger you in such an emotional paternalism in which you try to make what now?

Smoke weed periodically

Don't have time for this

lex looks old af now

OF COURSE! TIME IS AN ILLUSION!

Time being yours is the illusion. The reality is corporations already own it.

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

Only if you choose to participate. It's your time and you get to choose how to spend it. Try getting off the grid for a day and see what happens. That means no phone, no computer, no movies, and no TV.

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

​@@carolmartin8781BINGO

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

​@@carolmartin8781 but at the same time NOT very realistic because PEOPLE ARE FUCKING IDIOTS and THIS is the equation that proves it aha! Beat THAT

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

@@keeganrobbins-xb2lz What does BINGO refer to?

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

@@carolmartin8781 means your spot on

Hey, tell your boss "I'm not clocking in at 8 AM.. Time is just an illusion" and tell me how that goes

The 84 primordial elements, are the pattern of material reacting to time, the 20 standard amino acids are the unfolding of time in the biological, and those match in sequence and function with the known 20 day cycle of great antiquity. The products and skills of any human are trackable by date of birth. This goes for any scientist or artist, so the ability to experience free will, cannot be accomplished until a person understands where their thoughts come from and the schedule of them. This is why calendar specialists can predict events, and products of people. The idea, is not an idea per say, if it was there before you realized it. The most common question to an artist, is Where did you get the idea ? And they never answer this correctly. The components and flavors of time, influence all matter and the activity of it. That is the illusion. The awakening is when you learn the components and correct schedule of them. The problem then becomes,.. do you want to swim with the river, or do you wish to cheat it ? It is much more productive to swim with it. Then the possibility of say, behaving like a skipping stone across the top becomes possible under certain conditions. Math has not even noticed these patterns. Tesla was born on the day of electricity. Math has not even figured out there is a day for that. Our dreams are more based in reality, and mostly, the content is the flavor of the approaching day. The Maya have been teaching this for thousands of years. If you want to learn time, talk to a time keeper. Not a mathematician.

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

This is not intended as an insult. I'm just trying to make a point. Your third sentence is not accurate. Even a two-year-old has free will. We all have free will and the majority of us don't understand where our thoughts come from. I wanted to comment on the sentence (halfway down). I understand that time can influence matter and activity to a degree, but it also works both ways. Matter and activity can also influence time. Man invented time using sundials in 1500 BC. Three hundred BC people started measuring time using days to help them study the cosmos. The first clock was invented in the 1600s. The folks who invented these tools used mathematics.

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

It's fun to go with the flow, but there are times when you want to get out of the water and look at the beauty of it all; unlike being on a roller coaster where you are stuck there until the ride is over.

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

​@@carolmartin8781 idk who told you that life isn't a roller coaster that you're stuck on until you get off BUT I will be the first to tell you, THATS exactly what life is

@keeganrobbins-xb2lz

Жыл бұрын

​@@carolmartin8781 take Ukraine and Russia as an example ✌

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

@@keeganrobbins-xb2lz I didn't say life wasn't a roller coaster, and you're not the first to tell me. It's old news.

He has a very charming accent but a terrible haircut, which is something both share.

I believe most of these people are so far off base, but they’ve lost touch with reality. I have a much more simple, explanation and mathematical theory. But it is never entertained by those who wish to pack themselves on the back and treat KZread channels.

@chikipsg

Жыл бұрын

Share it .. create your own video

@Thesecondcomingpodcast

Жыл бұрын

@@chikipsg you can’t! No one will see it! It takes a lot of money to get views nowadays….that’s a fact

YOU'RE an illusion!

Me n my homie deffo can come up with better stories than this..lex is so boring.

Dear Lex, please interview Sadhguru on similar subjects.

No one knows until we know so until then it’s all opinions and just a thought

it's sad to see that supposedly smart people can say so much bullshit.

@carolmartin8781

Жыл бұрын

If you live long enough you will find out that we humans are not as smart as we think we are, and that applies to everyone. Then you won't take life so seriously. The older I get the more I realize how little I know.

@vhawk1951kl

Жыл бұрын

Who is supposedly well dressed, which is what smart means that unless you are an American peasant. We have a saying in Persia: "who is clever is foolish." If - as you correctly surmise, it is bullshit, why are you wasting your time with it? - You are bored with cinque contra Uno? - Best give it up, it is a filthy habit.

@whosweptmymines3956

Жыл бұрын

I think it's largely because being a physicist or mathematician involves doing physics or mathematics, not doing philosophy of physics or of mathematics. Many scientists assume that being expert in the first makes them expert in the second, but that's just not the case.

@effjesse_

Жыл бұрын

Maybe you're just too dumb to understand. If you refuse to accept that as a possibility, then it's probably true.