I'm really hoping one of the "REDACTED" in the rule reveal article is for Primaris Lieutenant, that way they can form a squad of themselves, making it possible to deploy all 271 of our Primaris Lieutenants.

@timmogridge1546

Жыл бұрын

I am waiting for the battle force release of all LT’s. I think it would be hilarious

@johnmiddleton4291

Жыл бұрын

@@timmogridge1546 If GW was on the ball that would have been an April fools post.

@andrewbakescakes9684

Жыл бұрын

@@timmogridge1546 - Primaris Lieutenant Boarding Patrol would be lulz.

I'm really hoping that the CSM get a proper flexible Chaos Lord kit in 10th. Bring the jetpacks and options back, at least for HQs, please.

@willd5328

Жыл бұрын

Puts a lot of the CSM characters in a weird spot. Like, should CSM always run a Termie Lord because termies will be good and there’s NO reason to ever run legionaries? And daemon princes probably can’t join a squad but being untargetable outside of 12” but then being able to move 12” with wings could be bananas.

@carlossanblas5807

Жыл бұрын

STIMULATION

@MightyGachiman

Жыл бұрын

God i wish. The termie lord kit was GOAT-ed. The blackstone one which we can use now is a joke.

@stephenhumphreys9149

Жыл бұрын

@@willd5328It could be that daemon princes will have the Lone Operative rule but it will be limited to certain things as with techmarines - maybe near larger size units like spawn, cavalry or vehicles.

@SmurphofChaos

Жыл бұрын

​@@willd5328 I think Daemon Princes will join Possessed. They have aura abilities, plus I'd be surprised if a Daemon Prince won't have any models to be a Prince over- He's called a Prince for a reason!

My guess is that the "Precision" trait will allow the attacker (as opposed to the defender) to decide which model to allocate wounds to. If so, it would allow snipers to not just target leaders but also units with special weapons.

@GoingRampant92

Жыл бұрын

Troops are already struggling to find a place, let alone how broken that would be vs elite armies. Sorry, but that's a terrible idea. Edit: A more balanced version of this would be to have a model with precision "call it's shot" on a specific model. Thereby preventing the "your plasma just dies because". And creating a potential moment of "oh shit I left my plasma out in the open and that vindicare can see it".

@dudebromanguy

Жыл бұрын

​@@GoingRampant92 The very cinematic "one shot one kill" narrative of sniper rifles is the reason these dang things are so hard to balance. It feels ridiculously unfair in a game for that to be possible, but the alternative of having three squads of snipers all shooting a captain just to maybe deal a single wound is equally dumb. The sanctus, death jester, and larkin are probably the only snipers in the game right now that feeel right without being bonkers OP. Sooooooooo, perhaps "Precision" only works on critical successes and/or it lets you target a character model in the squad if that model is visible to the sniper (not targeting any model in the squad, just a character model).

@nelsoj11

Жыл бұрын

@@GoingRampant92 Terrible or not, that's what Precision is in HH so there's decent chance it'll carry over to 10th. But hey, I'm sure there'll be characters who can give troops that rule. ha.

@GoingRampant92

Жыл бұрын

@@dudebromanguy exactly. You said it better than I could.

@GoingRampant92

Жыл бұрын

​@@nelsoj11 yeah HH is not 40k different game, different rules. Why make 2 copies of the same rule set. Edit: Although a character giving a similar rule could be cool, balanced out of scarcity. But as a general rule I don't see the point

Suddenly all the releases of Primaris lieutenants make sense. You need to collect them all to attach one to each unit type!

Can't go with Gravis? You know what that means! A new Gravis LT!!!!

@linkofvev

Жыл бұрын

I'm not even mad. My Dark Imperium Gravis Captain has been getting real lonely.

@MadMan-7978

Жыл бұрын

Im actually happy about that

@GrimonprezB

Жыл бұрын

Some characters will stay with auras...and that's for the no-gravis lieutenant....so you can be sure to have a guys to boost gravis (or special rules /detachments for them 🤣).

@patykaarplegos6282

Жыл бұрын

Will I be able to finish my all Gravis army? Yes...

@HighMarshalBiggusDickus

Жыл бұрын

God, i’ll be the first to say, an actual lieutenant that we need.

I hope this means that apothecaries can join units again

@Whoknows21356

Жыл бұрын

Is an apothecary a character?

@inquisitorsneed2

Жыл бұрын

​@@Whoknows21356yes

@richmcgee434

Жыл бұрын

Seems likely. OTOH, they might also be Lone Operators and have the option to maneuver independently, using their healing abilities on nearby squads. Too soon to be sure which way they go with it.

@Khobai

Жыл бұрын

if thats the case they can probably only heal the unit theyre in

@TauEnjoyer

Жыл бұрын

@@Whoknows21356 apothecaries are Elite, but have the character keyword, so i feel like making them able to join a unit would make sense, but at the same time, it would feel weird to ONLY be able to heal that single unit.. like sorry guys from the other squad, im with this squad for today, guess you'll just die 🤷‍♂

This change will also make craftworlders feel more like lumineth in AoS I think, if you embed warlocks and farseers in all your guardians, they'll probably be able to pick up some of the slack in melee and itll give every unit access to psychic powers, which fits their lore better

In a climate where tinkering with the rules is acceptable, like a friendly game or custom campaign, you could do a lot to differentiate subfactions by adjusting with which characters can join which units.

@setaripantheon8801

Жыл бұрын

It's going to be one A4 of House Rules if I ever play 10th edition...! GW is a joke for me, first Astarties the movie, then the BS in 9th, then the ridiculous release rate for models, and then this 10th circus..

I think the overarching theme that we're seeing in the rules is that GW is fragmenting them so that they can be tweaked individually. I think throughout 9th they've been trying to figure out what levers they would want to pull to tweak unit balance if they could, and they're implementing that in 10th edition. The removal of auras is a fine choice to help with that. I like the idea of characters being attached to units too. Way simpler. How many times was a measuring an remeasuring to make sure my Crusade squad was within 6" of one a Servitor who was within 2" of Grimaldus... oh but now they're 6.5" away from my Captain! No re-rolling 1s now... It's all a bit much for newbies or casuals. Also, this is going to help army construction and putting your old models on the table. No longer, will one type of character be the best because of its durability or loadout. Now certain characters fit with certain units. And you might want to put a character with one unit in a match up against Orks, but in a match up against Eldar in another unit. It seems exciting to me.

@Bear_Andersen

Жыл бұрын

I agree with everything you said here

ok, now Kor'sarro Khan NEEDS to be on a bike, right???

If the Imperium can have an Astartes Captain and Lieutenant attached to the same squad, hopefully the Necron aristocratic hierarchy works the same way. Return of the Overlord + Lord + Lychguard warscythe blender mob.

I really really like this, I always found Look Out, Sir to be cumbersome and not really doing what you wanted it to do, and I think this will give the game a slightly more cinematic feel, with a Hero and their band of brothers moving around to complete missions.

@gfanikf

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. Characters wondering around on their own (and not being Alpha Legion) is kind of dumb, even for gameplay logical reasons.

@hobblesofkarth3943

Жыл бұрын

​@@gfanikf the issue i have is that standalone characters seem much easiet to kill. Harlequins move like 24in turn 1, get within 12in and fusion pistol your standalone primarch.

@stepstv4466

Жыл бұрын

What is cinematic about that ? Its way more realistic for the officers to stay back and stay behind the frontline giving orders and buffs

@JohnnyCoyote

Жыл бұрын

@@stepstv4466 we're talking about a game with gene-modified super soldiers and space wizards here, realism isn't actually anything I want from that. I want big dumb awesome action scenes.

@stepstv4466

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyCoyote sure but I'm a guard player my "officers" die if they are up front. The whole command squad feels like its build around the [aura] system

I'm willing to bet The Silent King will keep some auras since he's a giant buffing center piece that can't really be attached to anything. Interesting to see how this affects Necrons as a whole.

@ivanharlokin

Жыл бұрын

"The Silent King was predictably tight-lipped in response".

I like this, it kinda turns characters into point cost upgrades for units. Will probably be a lot messier for Space Marines and their piles of units than other armies. Also I find it kinda weird that the Lieutenant can't join Desolators even though they're a Power Armored Primaris unit (Probably cause it'd be OP with Frag I guess).

@ravenRedwake

Жыл бұрын

They 110% forgot about them between writing this thing up. Does it make you nervous about the indexes? It should. Prepare for fuckery.

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

They don't want a unit hiding in cover to be able to auto wound on 6's. You'll be glad about this when Dark Reapers are ported to 10th.

@richmcgee434

Жыл бұрын

@@ravenRedwake Entirely possible, but it's also possible that they're taking advantage of these (quite restrictive) rules to work in some game balance you couldn't get as easily with auras - or at least reduce the amount of playtesting they need to do. Or, of course, this may be yet another WHC screwup where they posted incorrect rules that will get a stealth update. Wouldn't bet money on which of those is truly the case, frankly.

@brothertobias

Жыл бұрын

There are two redacted units on that sheet and I suspect one of them is Desolation Marines.

@danielbest2280

Жыл бұрын

​@Brother Tobias no they are the two new primaris unit's shown in the trailer, the pyre blaster unit and the veterans

Auspex Tactics sounds like he's not thrilled by those changes, but for me it's just awesome changes. No more stupid conga lines to get one foot of a dude in the aura range, no more endless stacking of bonuses to triple the output of a unit. Finally, the restriction of which squad a character can join helps both balance and the fluff. It was weird to have mixes of gravis and non-gravis, phobos and non-phobos... To be honest, I feel people were already going for the rule of cool and matching their characters to the unit, so the people affected are mostly tournament players who are already used to having to upgrade their collection frequently. All good changes IMO!

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

I think that's it really. This turn a decent unit into a SEXY GOD OF WAR BALL OF DOOM shenanigans was getting old.

@jimboonlyone

Жыл бұрын

The warball of doom was getting really old. My local meta has become either all iron hands or deathwing.

@hobblesofkarth3943

Жыл бұрын

Ball of doom was janky but this is going to make characters alot easier to kill and i want my characters to get into combat, not get shwacked by harlequins turn 1.

@popbogdanemilian1

Жыл бұрын

​@Hobbles of Karth Well, 100% they will change the harlequins ... buy the looks of it.. everybody is getting nerf.. to be honest was really hard to play this bubbles and all the time tape this and that .

@hobblesofkarth3943

Жыл бұрын

@@popbogdanemilian1 oh 100%, but of all the things on the boards, characters feel the worst to just...get shot to death. And alot of them can be pricy. Take away auras and alot of them arnt worth the points anymore. Make them easy to kill, thry wont be worth taking. The game has a huge array of unique and cool characters, i domt want 80% of them to be either useless or expemsibe and useless. Im more pessimistic about this than any other change. Take a custodes shield cap. He has a few more wounds and a few more swings than normal and he can be a relic rack to fill other roles. 100 pts. Nerf the relics, take away the aura and hes twice as expensive as a normal guardian for what? A squad of 3 guards is like 155pts ish. Not really worth 100pts for like 4 extra swings and 2 extra wounds and rerolls for 3 guys. Same cost i could rock 2 whole extra guards. Now it probably would ne worth it in a block of 9 guards to have a cappy....but thats back to blob again when 3 man squads are more common because its far harder to kill 3 squads of three than 1 squad of 9. So you can see how this has alot of potential to warp the game. Idk im just concerned we'll have to wait and see.

Game wise this does sound like an improvement. I'm still really curious to see how this impact non-Space Marine Armies (Looking at Necrons, Guard, Votann) who all have strong Auras and HQ's that might not work as good in this approach.

So full Bladeguard squadron? I always want to see bladeguard ancient properly attached to bladeguard veteran squad

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

Agreed but he still sucks :(

@HighlandPhoenix

Жыл бұрын

I want to see a bladeguard ancient with an actual blade... GW, it's in the name, why'd you do him dirty and just give him a pistol...?!

@emmanuelsanmiguel4031

Жыл бұрын

@@JimH. hopefully they change his buffs like the did the lieutenant.

@dragon12234

Жыл бұрын

​​@@HighlandPhoenix nono, the obvious answer is to turn his banner into a giant Crozius

@fonduby

Жыл бұрын

@@HighlandPhoenix I turned mine into an spear and the banner as his shield

“Sorry tactical marine brother, I know not how to direct your fire in a more lethal manner, it must have slipped from my mind when I crossed the rubicon primaris”

@sagacity1071

Жыл бұрын

"You firstborn filth dont deserve my cashmaris glory!" Last warcry of brother Shilrak, IF captain

You can't have simplicity and greater flexibility. You got to choose one or the other. I think this change to leaders is going to be good overall and having a few select loan operative characters will mean players will spend a lot less time measuring during their movement phase and the game will go by quicker without having to double and triple check where everybody is located. I also think it'll mean a lot less forgetting about your aura abilities 😅

i think the aura-like rules that will remain will be more like stuff that's intended to interact with non-infantry models such as synapse and techmarines, as well as datasheet buffs from things too large to really join a squad like canoptek reanimator or avatar of khaine

These rule changes remind me a lot of the way the first Dawn of War worked (which makes sense, as the first game came out around 4th edition, I believe). In DoW, every squad could be upgraded with a lower-rank leader character like a Sergeant, and you could then attach the bigger "hero" units like a Librarian, Chaos Sorcerer, or Apothecary to them.

All we need now are the challenge rules and square bases 😊

@sarge1408

Жыл бұрын

Well that'd be hell for horde armies to rebase.

I don’t think we’ll have to worry about character tanking in units like in 7th. Back then, each multi wound model could be allocated wounds separately. But now you have to allocate damage to a model entirely until it dies. So if the character is truly part of the unit, then unless they’re just unkillable on their stat sheet, I’d say you’re going to see regular models dying off first.

@Bear_Andersen

Жыл бұрын

Unless Precision does what everyone thinks it does (lets you pick which model to damage), in which case you use a Precision attack to deal one or more wounds to the character and then (assuming rules stay the way you're describing) all future incoming damage has to go on the character until they're dead. This would make sniper rifles (and similar weapons) very dangerous without them even needing to be powerful enough to just remove a character by themself.

The fact that I'm literally watching Powerpoints and completely invested, shows how good of a creator Auspex really is.

@maijin007

Жыл бұрын

I'm still confused why GW hasn't hired him to lead their PR dept.

As a Tyranid simp, I'm speculating about how this is going to apply to Tyranid characters (not that we have all that many). Tyrants are probably going to be able to Lead units of Tyrant Guard, but I'd be surprised if they didn't work very well as Lone Operatives too. I think the "buff one unit in Synaptic Relay range" ability that's common to 'Nid leaders at the moment is probably going to stay, which I am pleased with. Neurothropes are going to Lead Zoanthropes, naturally, though that might annoy people considering how tanky they already are to anything that can't ignore invulns! Tyranid Primes will naturally Lead Warriors, which I think is nice because mine has been really quite squashy so far. Maybe he'll regain his old "nearby Warriors use my BS/WS" ability, but just for his attached unit. Deathleaper and the Parasite of Mortrex sound like they're going to stay Lone Operatives. Mortrex could *maybe* attach to a unit of Gargoyles, but Deathleaper would make no sense at all following around another Lictor, and I feel like he wouldn't slot in well to a unit of these new Leapers. Overall, very interested, intrigued, and excited.

It took them this long to remember that heroes joining squads has been cool since OG Dawn of War

Thing is with the 'Precision' rule, that Hyperadaption would allow the Tyranid army to have that on every single unit on the field.... every single monster, artillery and hormagant on the field can snipe characters out of squads ..... mmm tasty :)

@arvatrontheiv2220

Жыл бұрын

It could be a thing where on a hit roll of 6 the attack can be allocated on a character in the unit.

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

That's why it only works on critical hits.

@kamikeserpentail3778

Жыл бұрын

@@Neothunder240 Still much better than never being able to even attack their characters, while they're able to kill my Hive Tyrant or Broodlord turn 1.

Good morning Auspex. Perfect timing, I just finished another meeting.

Kinda sounds fun, certain characters become a way to improve a unit. Like, if you love jackals in gsc then you can put the jackal alphus on a big squad of jackals to make them more elite. Also makes larger squads more appealing, you want the largest number of models to benefit from bringing a character so putting one on a min squad will kind of hurt. Maybe my poor pain boy can finally feel worth it again

@sarge1408

Жыл бұрын

​@@Primaris_sucksGenestealer Cult, just abreviated

My guess is that a number of big named characters or rather the "Epic Hero" slot will be mostly Lone Operatives and be the only ones to keep Auras Big names only like the Lion, Angron, Silent King, Farsight, Abaddon, etc

Back in 3rd (the last time I played), you could attach leaders to a squad, but if I remember correctly (and I admit I may not), their leadership abilities could effect a squad they were in and other squads about 6 inches away. Being a part of a squad was more for the protection of the HQ unit and give the squad a little more firepower. The leader taking wounds last or choosing to use his defensive stats reminds me of 7th and 8th edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

Unsure on this for Custodes, high points value mean can usually only take 2 characters will end up being 2 tanky squads compared to space marines that can take several

i started playing in 8th edition so i never got to play with older rules, but it was when i played dawn of war 2 with their squads and squad leader units that i thought "hey that would be so cool on the tabletop" this also gives each squad more "character" from a flavor side i mean not just literally =) - look out sir is way easier - buffs are easier (and easier to balance) - and it finally makes sense to have all these lieutenant minis in your collection as a space marine player xD. Oh and not to forget - it makes the decission to use bigger units a bit more appealing and strategic

I kinda like the changes to the Lieutenant. Makes him seem like he's actually directing troops in some way instead of just re-rolls. On the other hand, I'm not sure I like the changes to character protection. I also hope I can still use some characters separate from other units as beat-sticks, like Death Company Captains.

@ruslanhoncharenko2179

Жыл бұрын

Leader ability allows you to join units, not forces you to run them on their own.

@valwenventureco9285

Жыл бұрын

that death company captain should join a death company unit pile into a death company transport and go death company things.

@Bear_Andersen

Жыл бұрын

@@valwenventureco9285 Not necessarily. Maybe he should just join a death company unit, strap a death company jetpack to his back along with the rest of the unit, and THEN go do death company things. (At least I think Death Company used to be able to get jetpacks didn't they? If so, they should get it back, is my point)

Glad this came out right before I started grabbing more Genestealer characters, might change the calculus on which ones I want. I got the boarding patrol while it was available but I think I can wait til the 10th stuff comes out to get anything else.

@theswampus670

Жыл бұрын

The Combat Patrol is going to be a safe purchase, everything in there is the core of your army. Based on how the characters currently function I'd guess the Kelermorph, Sanctus, and Reductus Saboteur will all be Independent and almost all the others will need to join squads. The Patriarch will probably have conditional protection like some of the other big leaders mentioned in the article. The Nexos might be independent as well since it would be odd to have a guy like that on the front line.

@themediater

Жыл бұрын

@@theswampus670 Yeah the combat patrol and the broodcoven are first in line and do feel safe, might end up getting the former sooner rather than later if I build the boarding box stuff quick but I was planning on buying like... a lot of the single characters. The locus, Nexos, Biophagus were all on my list. Hoping to get some new purestrain genestealers with the Tyranids refresh.

@richmcgee434

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't be buying anything at this point. Wait till you see what 10th does or you're just asking to get stuck with models you may never use - until 11th, in about 3 years or so.

@Taeerom

Жыл бұрын

We REALLY should not buy any more models until 10th. Or, at least not models we want to fight with. Personally, I'm holding off of buying aggressors/centurions or land speeders I've been looking at to bolster my army. It's far better to wait and see how the rules shake out once 10th rolls around. For now, I'm teaching myself how to paint concrete and I'm going to build a zone mortalis/boarding actions set with concrete walls out of XPS foam

@theswampus670

Жыл бұрын

@@richmcgee434 I agree for most factions, but GSC has so few units that The Combat Patrol will have some decent load outs no matter what the rules are like.

i like this rule far more then the reroll ones. Makes the game faster and reroll become something special again

This change doesn't make sense to me. Lieutenants are supposed to oversee several squad. This just sounds like all the characters despite their title are now more powerful sergeants. I think better than this would have been to solve the problem by reducing the number of auras and rerolls by chaning the buffs and how they apply. For example, a character could just apply their buff to a single unit in range each turn. And we can totally put a marker next to the unit to remind us of that.

So, maybe characters like the Talonmaster will be able to join a squad of speeders? Could be fun.

Interesting to see how the lethal hits works with flamers and their auto hitting. Also likely that we'll see a Gravis Lieutenant not long after 10th launches to fill that gap.

I can see this coming into play w/ the "blast rule" and pushing units from 1 bracket to the next ie. 10 guard squad +1 commissar = 11 models and incoming fire now gets max attacks

I am optimistic about these changes, but the biggest things that bug me are the usual limit of 1 buffing character per unit, and that it is implying that certain characters can only attach to certain squads.

I can see them making 'Look out sir' a core stratagem where a unit with 3+ models can prevent a character being targeted at all, but obviously costs CP and is limited to once per turn or something.

I suspect this is going to feature heavily into the detachments. I've seen other people mention this elsewhere, and I'm inclined to agree. I think they are going to make the armies entirely themed around certain units, which is why the attached leaders work the way they do. For example, Necrons will have 4 detachments, the basic one where you pick anything and it works, and then 3 themed ones. Destroyers, Canopteks, and Silver Tide. Tyranids will have Ambush, Swarmy, and Psykers, Eldar will get Aspect Warriors, Wraiths, and Psykers, etc.

Sigh. I dont like rerolls but I like them more than autowound on 6's.

I love this! I wonder if it might lead back deathstars, having the lieutenant join a squad, and a chapter master, plus if you can still through psychic powers on them, potentially nasty? Guess time will tell!

The question is: Who's a Lone Op and who isn't? Cause Chaplains in general are buffing characters, so maybe these still get to wander around helping where they're needed Hell, maybe we'll even eventually see special exceptions where a certain unit has a rule that goes "if not attached to a unit, this unit gains the Lone Operative keyword" for things like certain medics

Intresting that they cleary called him primaris lieutenant, seems like primaris wil stay apart for still a bit.

@spoonsrattling

Жыл бұрын

Well yeah primaris units will still exist, but they won't have rules like transhuman locked behind them

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, they seemed to be moving away from that, now they've gone right back to the separation.

@JTProud

Жыл бұрын

9e: primaris vehicles don't let firstborn in 10e: primaris characters won't even talk to firstborn

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

@@JTProud 11e: We have no idea what primaris are, all marines are the same and have always been the same.

@TheVoloch

Жыл бұрын

He is called a Primaris Lieutenant but that is not the same thing as having Primaris keyword.

I like the sound of it so far. I’d assume Phobos Lieutenants and Librarians would attach to Phobos units like Infiltrators or Incursors and Eliminators. And Chapter Master is staying too. And Lts can join them? Oh man, my master marksman chapter master can have a retinue of other snipers. Glorious. I love the sound of that

At last, Runtherds in gretchin squads, my plans will finally be able to take place

I just wonder what they're going to do with units that have different movement distances. ie. Typhus (5") if he could join a group of Pox Walkers (4") Perhaps they're just going to make it so the units either move as far as the slowest unit the leader joins to or they'll make it so the units they join will have to be the same speed. The latter being much easier but more restrictive.

I hope all characters can be chosen as Lone Operatives, making the disadvantage for the Leader Characters being unable to buff units making that choice likely suboptimal or very niche. that would be my preferred system just in case you have a character but not a unit to attach it to. otherwise I really like this system.

This then in terms of Iron Hands... makes then more sense to run with Iron Father Feirros, a techmarine, lieutenant and an apothecary, just in order to get all the possible stratagems across the board.

While most of the potential attachment targets will likely be based on similar armour/size/role to the hero it does in theory allow actual lore friendly interactions that wasn't possible before such as ork big meks attaching to killa kans.

I really like these changes. Limits the ridiculousness of aura buffs, has some nice interactions wrt snipers etc, makes balance easier. It just feels less cheesing is possible.

I'm definitely mixed on this. On one hand it's a neat idea and incentivizes Leaders to actually lead and not hide. On the other hand it's hyper restrictive. Now you can only buff a single unit, and then the limits on who you can work with: What you have an Apothecary for your Aggresors....Security!!!! Only Gravis Apos for them now, guess you better buy another single model for $40 (yeah...definitely feeling awfully Primaris right now). Hopefully things like healing will remain as auras. Can't imagine a Techmarine looking at a dying Redemptor and being like "sorry.... but I'm in the Leviathan's unit....I guess you just die now"

@jasonfry2096

Жыл бұрын

Suspect techmarines will work as they mentioned for Feirros or whatever his name is. It does actually seem like they've thought this through somewhat

@hobblesofkarth3943

Жыл бұрын

​​@@jasonfry2096 you say that...if i can realize harlequins can now kill any standalone (aka big expensive centerpiece) character on the board turn 1 so should they.

@jasonfry2096

Жыл бұрын

@@hobblesofkarth3943 I have no idea what you mean

@stephenhumphreys9149

Жыл бұрын

They pretty much say as such when they mention Feirros gaining Lone Operative when working on a vehicle - I would expect techmarines to operate the same way rather than joining units. Apothecaries could go either way - I would expect them to work as Lone Operatives (no aura healing, but being able to heal a different unit whenever they need to) but as they have showcased gravis apothecaries in the announcement trailer you may well be right about them having to join units.

@demon1103

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonfry2096 Ok...must have missed that. Well at least that's good then.

Thank you auspex!!!!!

I appreciate grouping heroes in for the sped up gameplay, but some wallets might be a bit thinner to maintain the extra "hero" feel that comes from unique lone operators.

Sounds great 😊 love the idea, not keen on it being too limited, but seems much better

I wonder how this will effect character squads like Command squads and the like. Will they be "lone operatives" or can you attach them to units for bigger wound pools.

@leovaeg

Жыл бұрын

Maybe they will have an Ancient unit, that can then add the rest of the CC Squad as leaders/addons in this way?

As much as I am sad to see auras go, I get why. They are a lot of fun as they turn positioning into a bit of a puzzle, but are basically impossible to balance. I'm also assuming/hoping characters like Ghaz will not need to attach to a unit. It's weird to think of these wrecking ball style characters to be chained to a squad.

@ruslanhoncharenko2179

Жыл бұрын

Well, I assume Ghaz is Lone Operative type of character, so he may get aura-like abilities.

@MeansOfProduction209

Жыл бұрын

Probably, I think the big center piece characters will get the Lonesome operator ability GW already stated the Lion has it.

@Bluecho4

Жыл бұрын

Ghaz might retain his "max 3 wounds lost" ability. Which would compensate for not having another unit around to serve as ablative wounds.

-We won’t be able to hold the line against titans with just our bolters! - Belay that, sergeant! You’re an ultramarine! - My bad comrade lieutenant! *Surprised sounds of a dying chaos titan*

Having started back in 4th edition, this all seems reasonable to me. Restricting the list of units each character can join and limiting team-ups should help with balance. This will definitely change list building, as part of the cost of every character will be their bodyguard. Also, lone operatives feel very fragile if anything within 12” can freely shoot them without penalty.

@ashardalondragnipurake

Жыл бұрын

pistol range only isnt enough the giant demigod visible from across the battlefield needs to be in pistolrange

@RavenAdventwings

Жыл бұрын

@@ashardalondragnipurake Loyalist Primarchs? Chaos Lords? Reasonable. Daemon Primarchs, C'tan Shards, and the literal avatar of a dead god? Maybe a bit better to have them be legal shooting targets from across the table.

I like having thematic armies. For example, I always take my Phobos Lieutenant if I’m using Infiltrators or Incursors; and I use my Marshal and Castellan in my Black Templars army instead of a Captain or Lieutenant. And I have plenty of characters and HQs for each of my armies. Therefore, if these 10e rules are true, I should be ready to add leaders to units. It will take some time to adjust to no auras, but I welcome this change from castling, which felt restrictive and un-fun, but it seemed like the only way to play Space Marines, especially Ultramarines, successfully.

If they give "Leader" to the Lictor, the new Leapers are gonna be a must-have

I think the best part about this is making the game mutch quicker. I know I spend a long time in movement trying to make sure I've optimized my inches while staying in auras. Will require a lot less thinking now.

@thecappeningchannel515

Жыл бұрын

Oh god yes.

Very interesting I'm curious how the apothecary will work. Also curious if eldar will still be able to run warlock squads or only single guys to attach to squads

A note on the biker chaplain, perhaps the ATV can attach to the outrider squad?

Thanks for the video

Now I wonder if the point of Lictors is to be captains for the lurkers.

I was hoping there would be a choice: Be unattached and be able to buff choice of units but be vulnerable or attach for security but only buff that unit

@grumbo8634

Жыл бұрын

That would have been so much simpler and more intuitive.

This could complicate this a bit for armies that have a limited roster like the WE. How are we going to field Lord Invacatus or a Chaos Lord on Juggernaut while we wait for the Berserkers on Juggernaut to come out? Or will the only really viable option be to put eighter of then together with Eightbound? Thus is the only unit that makes sense for them movement speedwise I mean. I will put them with the Boodletters on Khorne Daemons for sure

I find very nice the way they are going with character integration to units. Maybe because that's almost exactly how it works in the house rules i use though

I really like this, most important characters in the lore always have some cool elite retinue accompanying them so I like ability to portray that on the table. I also never liked 8th and 9th turning characters into a reroll dispensers instead of, you know, being a cool characters. Look out Sir also always felt a bit clunky to me

@bionicgeekgrrl

Жыл бұрын

It mirrors real life armies to some extent too, with captain and lt both typically leading units, unless they are special forces in some cases (except during ww2).

I can't wait for the Seer Council that I can attach a Farseer to; ever since DoW1 I wanted a melee bruiser unit with tons of spellcasting shenanigans. I just pray that it's good.

Wow do not like the armor type being the deciding factor of what runs with what

@richmcgee434

Жыл бұрын

It's an odd choice, granted. And if teh Space Wolves aren't exempted from it somehow there's going be a riot on Fenris - mixing terminator wolf guard into your squads has been a thing since 2nd edition. Well, there's always a riot on Fenris, but this one won't be as good-spirited as usual.

@Neothunder240

Жыл бұрын

It makes sense. Armour type dictates a bunch of things like transports, deepstrike, stratagems... the character would need to be compatible with all that.

@chetmanley1885

Жыл бұрын

I really wouldn't want a slower character holding back a faster unit myself

Hope we see something similar for the Autarch.

Well my Fireblade and Coldstar Commander were basically always paired with Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits anyways, this just makes it official. Kinda bummed that Shadowsun can't get installed in a block of Stealth Suits, but I guess limiting the Supreme Commander of the entire Fire Caste to buffing one squad does sound a bit silly.

I might be biased because I'm a Ork player, but I actually really like this change. Yeah, managing Aura's could be fun every now and then. But it also meant a lot more measuring, and could result in some really broken combos. I'm somewhat biased though since I'm mostly a ork player, so not much really changed. I also like the way this encourages you to blob up a bit to get the most out of your characters. Again, I might be biased because I'm a ork player. Only real downside is that it means you might have to get some new characters. Though, at the very least, it means there's now actually a somewhat decent reason to have twenty different Primaris Lieutenants.

so i'm guessing that if you have a damaged character, you can still allocate any damage to the squad first. so multi-character squads may still be able to spread damage out like in 7th also, i would like to see what changes they do to "bodyguard" units

(Glances over at Kharn) Don’t you dare 👀

I prefer the new Lieutenant rule over the old one. Auto-wound on 6s to hit is more Interesting than reroll 1s to wound. The new rule changes your targeting decisions for the squad (or at least has the potential to affect them) whereas the old rule did not. Reroll 1s to wound is exactly 16,666...% more damage against everything, so it doesn't change which targets the unit wants to prioritise, whereas auto-wounding on hits of 6, as you say in the video, has a bigger impact against some units than against others. This has the potential of changing which targets you choose to direct that unit at. Much more interesting rule! :)

Gravis cpt leading a group of aggressors and eradicators is already my style so this works for me. Just wondering about all my other characters. Do they all have to be gravis in the new detachment or is it just the unit that has to match. Like a Judiciar with a unit of assault intercessors

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

It's probably just going to be a "you must have the armor type to lead said armor type" thing. Gravis/gravis, phobos/phobos, etc. But on the plus side, we're FINALLY getting a gravis apothecary and I assume at least a gravis LT (finally).

@davidring681

Жыл бұрын

That would be awesome. I’ve really gotten into painting up characters lately and with arcs of omen I can fit a bunch in my army. I like it. It’s more thematic

I'm honestly really interested in this, as someone who joined in 8th this is entirely new to me

I think this is going to be a big buff for units that charge. As you can now have character and unit to fight before interrupt can happen. Especially relevant for melee vs melee armies. Like BA vs WE or something.

I wonder what kind of buffs attaching leaders to squads will do and if certain leaders will give different buffs. As a blood angels player I’m wondering if that means I can attach Dante to a unit of sanguinary guard or if Dante is going to be more of a lone wolf.

Man you are wild. That’s two video already tonight. My man

I get they want to reduce re-rolls and AP making the game less lethal (until the next codices come out and every Eldar has an AP-4 gun), but it seems like they're taking everything from UM and making them for every SM army. First we get the Seal of Oath relic as an army trait, now we get shoot and charge after fall back (yes the charge is a WS thing, but still). I'm starting to think Gabriel Seth was right...

@stephenhumphreys9149

Жыл бұрын

For much of the life of 40k, Ultramarines really were just the definition of normal marines. If they are reducing faction rules down as much as they seem to be then I doubt what you're saying will be much of an issue. My assumption with Marines is that if they are all one faction, then the different chapters will just have unique detachments they can choose. So Blood Angels may have a jump-pack themed detachment, Dark Angels will have 'Death/Raven-wing' detachments, maybe Ultramarines will have one that emphasises their veterans or something?

@losigar7658

Жыл бұрын

Like others have said It really seems they are pushing 40k back to 3rd edition with a nice helping of age of sigmar. Back then space marines where space marines, there was not difference between a blood angels tactical marine or a imperial fist tactical marine. Variation came from special units and load outs rather then arbitrary rules.

@chetmanley1885

Жыл бұрын

Not every Eldar unit has an AP-4 gun, Dire Avengers have AP-4 IF you roll a six. Always some salty fellows that can't deal with change.

@JimH.

Жыл бұрын

@@chetmanley1885 WHOOOSHHHH...

I appreciate having more reason to take SM characters that don't have invulnerables now.

Hmm, will be interesting to see what role Guard officers will play in this, assuming they keep "orders" as a faction gimmick. Maybe the unit they're in gets it for free but they can only issue one order to another unit within range?

Ive had a think and i like these changes. The bolt gun needed a buff and this provides it, and it was my pick of options. The fallback ability is also strong.

They’re probably going to make a “lead from the front” type tag so characters can function as bodyguards for the squad e.g. the ogryn bodyguards in the guard codex

@samjsnz

Жыл бұрын

I think the opposite. The squad should be bodyguarding the character. You don’t want a horrible situation like HH where people slow roll saves on artificer armour because it’s a 2+

@benjih-man612

Жыл бұрын

@@samjsnz yeah that’s what I’m saying, that will be standard but some characters will have a special ability to be like bodyguards. I’m thinking iron hand straken or sergeant harker could make a single guard squad more serviveable or something

@samjsnz

Жыл бұрын

@@benjih-man612 I guess now if you give your commander the death mask relic the whole squad gets 4++

I like this. Less rules to remember and I get to pair my favorites together.

Thank you.

Hrm. I guess I'll just have to wait and see in practice. My main concern is I now need to completely stop working on either of my armies characters because most of the characters I picked were picked for various buffs that may work completely differently or be gone. I mean, I feel like what someone said a few days ago, when I asked about the GSC Patriarch, was probably right, they'll probably stay on their own... but if the Abominant (for instance) requires Aberrants to join I feel like I may as well ignore him entirely. I mostly chose him because I had a cool fluff idea behind him. Also not sure what this will mean for stuff like the Venomcrawler, with it's + Psychic aura. That felt like a fluffy addition to the CSM-but-not-actually idea I had going... not sure how that'll pan out now. Guess I'ma just work on the basic troopers for now. - To be clear, not exactly against this change, it just upends some things I had already planned out in a way I didn't anticipate. (I sorta figured the aura thing would be sticking around.)

For Tau with lone operative would be a great chance to introduce Kais. But I guess commanders can just act as monats a bit easier compared to in 9th.

Less measuring of auras and really precise measurements in movement phase sounds like a win.

I think this means we will see a nice balance of MSU and fullsize units. If your characters only buff their squad, might as well get the most bang for your buck by sticking the LT or Cpt in a big squad.

@SarajevoKyoto

Жыл бұрын

True, although you'd then be a pretty big target for the Oath of Moment "bin one unit per turn" thing Marines get, so it'll be a trade-off. Big deadly unit, but if it gets focused down then you've just lost even more points than usual.

@zandosdwarf-king

Жыл бұрын

Or we will see lack of characters. Depends what each army gets

Thanks mate. The only thing that starts to scare me is mixed toughness units. Hope that’s handled well

@jamieclassen6206

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I play grey knights, all my character were Terminator armour save 1

@ruslanhoncharenko2179

Жыл бұрын

Well they literally said characters take damage the last, unless there are rules to target them direct.

I can't wait for the full release, I play death guard and CSM so I'm here just guessing at what my armies are going to be like

I wonder if this has any implications for TSons. We kind of already had this with sorcerors baked into our rubric and terminator squads. I wonder if the aspiring sorcerors will get their own datasheets and, if so, will they be battleline? Will we see rubrics running around without sorcerors to lead them? Can we now take rubrics as effectively squads of 11?