I had *no clue* about the Emily Wong situation. I have wondered for years why she wasn't in 3 and hearing she got cut for an e-celeb cameo is WILD.

@Hillthugsta

2 жыл бұрын

Also, they killed her off screen.

@Bek359

2 жыл бұрын

@@mongooseunleashed Not a trailer - a Twitter feed. Yes, seriously.

@Revan058

2 жыл бұрын

Wong went out like a big dick g, at least. Kamikazed her shuttle into a Reaper ship to allow a lot of refugees to escape. Metal as fuck.

@truefenriz

2 жыл бұрын

@@Revan058 I kinda like that the Galaxy at War mod does add text to indicate that Emily Wong survived the kamikaze attempt and was rescued. She sadly does not appear in modded ME3 but at least she did not get killed off like in vanilla.

@scrat9870

2 жыл бұрын

@@Revan058 not just that, she kamikazes a reaper after realizing it was HER OWN BROADCAST SIGNAL leading the reapers there to begin with. A grand gesture of msm taking the fall for an issue it created to begin with

ME3's ending was kind of a relic of its time. In the late 00's early-10's loads of games wanted to do multiple ending but few of them committed enough resources to differentiate them. Honestly they should've just stuck with the generic "save the day" ending and strapped a Fallout style choice slideshow at the end and called it a day.

@garrettcarter5622

2 жыл бұрын

ME3 DOES have a Fallout ending slideshow, just without the narration.

@patrickr.1433

2 жыл бұрын

Thats... exactly what the extended cut is

@Vinno1234

2 жыл бұрын

This is what the extended cut adds, like to a T, fallout narration slides and a voiceover

@zaneseibert

2 жыл бұрын

I only played with extended cut so I didn't know that that was added later. Holy shit, that makes the original even worse than I thought. But really my point was more about the multiple endings being bad.

@alexbrown7708

2 жыл бұрын

@@zaneseibert I hate how if you kill the Reapers you kill the Geth. I don't understand why they did that.

Jessica Chobot . . . Its been 84 years...

I think curing the genophage and saving the Krogan is one of the best scenes in the series. "Wouldve liked to run tests on seashells." Gut punch that gets me everytime.

@gdhuertas07

2 жыл бұрын

“I am the very model of a scientist Salarian…”

@TheTrueRandomGamer

2 жыл бұрын

I MADE A MISTAKE!

I think seeing Woolie Shepherd commit war crimes across the galaxy would be a fun LP to watch

@rohrvg

2 жыл бұрын

I need to see Woolie Shepherd renegade interrupting people across the galaxy.

@zgSH4DOW

2 жыл бұрын

He can do it now that the Disco Elysium shackles are off

@23kurtzy

2 жыл бұрын

@@rohrvg every interrupt a glass him moment

@CosmicG777

2 жыл бұрын

Call 'em. POCKETS Shepard.

@Tenems941

2 жыл бұрын

Woolie Shepard why did you shoot that man "the only good Batarian is a dead Batarian"

New Players: Mass Effect 3 wasn't that bad originally-. Pat: *"I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions!"*

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

Not new played since 1 release date. Yeah 3 is far better than 2 and I'd go as far to say that 2 is straight up 4/10 boring trash.

@VerdeMorte

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bourikii2992 3 is only decent *now.* It was overpriced unfinished hot trash on release. 2 was seen as better at the time for having a clearer story impact on a finished game. (PS: Get that busted lip fixed.)

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

@@VerdeMorte A clearer story impact? It literally has no bearing to the plot at all, it's a complete side story in its own little bubble. Unfinished? Everything was there lol it mostly got hate because of the garbage ea dlc practices.

@tylerlackey1175

Жыл бұрын

@@Bourikii2992 nobody is buying your contrarian shtick

Javik should have been in the game from the start because having to buy his dlc ruin the surprise of meeting him.

@RDR911

2 жыл бұрын

Facts. I totally forgot about when he was in the game and I had such a wonderful surprise when I played it.

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

That's the thing, he originally was. In fact, in the original plot Javik was the Catalyst. They had to make him redundant just so they could sell him off as a DLC.

@L3FT2BURN

Жыл бұрын

Truth be told, I don't know if he should have ever been in the game. It just seems so...contrived to have a Prothean last 50,000 years to join your crew for the next Reaper invasion

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

@@L3FT2BURN Javik is just a dropped plot point from the original plot of ME3. He was originally the Catalyst, and key to making the Crucible work.

I believe a lot of the narrative fuck ups in Mass Effect 3 was partly due to the fact that Drew Karpyshyn was not part of the writing team. Drew wrote Kotor and created Revan, as well as wrote with Mac Walters in both Mass Effect 1 and 2. It seems there was a big difference to not having Drew in Mass Effect 3.

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

It's that along with the fact that EA cut down on VA budget and ordered Bioware to make ME2's DLCs, Dragon Age 2, The Old Republic AND Mass Effect 3, all in the 18 months between ME2's release and ME3's original release date of late 2011. This is what killed Bioware, A TON of talent was lost because they had enough of EA's crap and lead to the Bioware we have today.

That Emily Wong shit made me more angry than the ending bullshit back in the day

They really didn’t do Jessica Chobot any favors with that character model. Her modeled face looks so bloated compared to her actual face. It’s like they used the character creator from the first game to make her.

@TheSlammurai

2 жыл бұрын

Her face was so bloated that I thought she was an alcoholic.

Back in the day, the amount of DLC for Mass Effect 3 was absolutely ridiculous. Legendary edition absolutely helped with the DLC bloat that bogged down the experience. Also, I would much rather have Emily Wong than Diana Allers any god damn day.

@InfamousResult

2 жыл бұрын

I'm surprised Pat doesn't mention it- or maybe he didn't know- that the IGN reporter cameo Diana Allers/Jessica Chobot thing becomes *triple cringe* because your Shepard can romance and *fuck* her. Which is just so weird, given the context.

@yodabaki970

2 жыл бұрын

Or the tabloid reporter if you made the right choices. An arc from tabloid provocateur to real war time journalist would have been cool.

@awkwardGardener

2 жыл бұрын

I am so glad I finally got to experience the game with all the dlcs. The last time I played through it was before I was able to purchase things like dlc, and I enjoyed the gameplay, but the story is so massively improved now, especially between all the added context with Leviathan and the dlc squad member. The Citadel dlc was also fuckin hilarious and a fun time. Omega was decent enough. I think the best part was the inclusion of female Turians. It was also pretty neat when I noticed that Nyreen is mentioned in Andromeda.

@genogamma13

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't some weird minor dlc locked behind convenient store slushy purchases?

@JillLulamoon

2 жыл бұрын

God the amount of pre order DLC for 3 was comical. Legit like 9 guns in 3 are pre order or collector edition things.

If I remember correctly, a bunch of the ending problems was due to them having to re-write the entire motivation of the Reapers and thus the basis of how to stop them relatively late into the dev cycle due to writers leaving, giving some of it away in interviews and EA demanding it all be redone. Spoilers for a decade old game series below, if anyone cares. Supposedly, the original intent was that the Repers were doing the whole cycle thing to try to regulate the levels of matter and energy in the galaxy, using organic life as a tool to do it. There are hints dropped about this at certain points in 2, like the planet you recruit Tali in having its star aging way too fast due to strange dark energy readings that never got expanded on. What this plotline does it put the concerns of the Reapers on a whole different level than what organics are thinking of. Everyone else is running around try to grow food and build ships, while these space monsters are tinkering with the fundamental laws of reality and will not be reasoned with because of it. At the very least it feels a lot less stupid and self-contradicting than "AI keep killing organic life, so we made AI that will stop this happening by killing all the organic life before they make AI that kill them"

@SeruraRenge11

2 жыл бұрын

The problem is that plotline is STILL stupid because why don't the reapers just enslave us and make sure we never develop instead of waiting until we become advanced and then move in?

@Jimbo55151

2 жыл бұрын

IIR the guy who wrote that said this was never the finalize plot or the one people were going with just his idea. The community just picked up on it post everything that happened. The original plan while designing 1 was for the Reapers to not have any motivation and just be these lovecraftian abominations. BioWare, from the lips of people there at the time, mystery boxed a lot of the stuff which lead us to where we are.

I'm remembering one part of the outrage when Mass Effect 3 was released, in that Bioware was severely incompetent at handling the backlash and almost seemed to be encouraging it. The 'oh, the fans are just being entitled babies' thing came at least partially from in house. I recall some actual community manager/PR guy earnestly going 'oh the bible's a piece of shit story it doesn't talk about what happened to Jesus's companions 🙄'. It was a sort of failure of managing an angry playerbase I think we don't really see that often in 2021.

@genogamma13

2 жыл бұрын

Then the sprinkling of lighter fluid was people in games media going "Yeah, screw these babies!" for outrage clicks... *Then* the people that thought those outrage pieces were genuine opinions that would keep bringing up the "entitled gamer" narrative for legit fanbase objections.

@douglasdickson6170

2 жыл бұрын

It absolutely came from in-house. EA tried to say the user reviews were all because of homophobes.

@genogamma13

2 жыл бұрын

@@douglasdickson6170 I weep not for those people... just those suckers that believe the piss droplets coming from on high are just rain on their backs and get tricked into arguing with people that say they're being pissed on.

@Iandrasill

2 жыл бұрын

@@genogamma13 they were legit opinions by legit morons that still work in the industry making it a shitshow today, none of this should be surprising.

@ABonafideSkeleton

2 жыл бұрын

“We don’t really see that often in 2021?” My man we see it all the time, virtually every month. Whenever people dare to not fully embrace something when told to it’s always the fault of “entitled fans” not eagerly gobbling up whatever shit is thrown to them and daring to have standards and expectations.

The Party Member DLC was so egregious Totalbiscuit made a video calling out the entirety of Bioware and EA.

@Ronin11111111

2 жыл бұрын

Wish he could've played this version

@breaksystembse

2 жыл бұрын

Rest in Peace Tb

Putting aside the ending and Cerberus being turned into cartoon villians, ME3 has a lot of good shit.

@Reaverbot7

2 жыл бұрын

Cerberus were cartoon villains in ME1. ME2 was the odd one out there.

@TheTrueRandomGamer

2 жыл бұрын

@@Reaverbot7 Except that 2 lent additional context to the missions in 1, and were part of what gave the group its gray reputation in the first place.

@jtlego1

2 жыл бұрын

The Citadel DLC alone makes it worth it.

@weeaboowrangler6321

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheTrueRandomGamer even in context its evil and just plain incompetent, being prohuman but doing a bunch of tests that kill humans that seemingly accomplished nothing

@dancinginfernal

2 жыл бұрын

@@weeaboowrangler6321 iirc those were mostly waved away as being a splinter group.

It is more than the ending, but the original ending WAS such a sour note, because there was so little resolution to your characters, the races/factions, and the galaxy as a whole. Plus your choices throughout the series didn't really matter to the ending for the most part.

@__________8997

2 жыл бұрын

The ending also meant due to the mass relays going away as an interstellar highway that the Turians as a race were essentially fucked with the majority of their fleet and potentially species at Earth for being highly militant being a giant section. of the Reaper resistance fleet, and then requiring different food we can't provide Earthside due to their different genetics, so with the Turians iirc relying on trade via the relays they were fucked and would likely all die at human central

@BlazeMakesGames

2 жыл бұрын

@CrossCynical I've always hated the indoctrination theory. I feel like people get way too caught up in unraveling the conspiracy and fail to realize that it leads to an absurdly unsatisfying ending. Like yeah cool you uncovered the secret truth about the ending, but what does it actually mean for the story? A) Your choices mattered even less than they did in the original ending because none of it is real and it's impossible to avoid being indoctrinated A2) While you technically have a choice at the very end as to whether you can break free or submit to the indoctrination, again, it's just as disconnected from the rest of your choices as the original ending is, except that the impact on the galaxy is virtually nothing. B) As you said, the player is played for a fool as they've secretly been manipulated the entire time C) Where is the galaxy left at the end? The Theory means the story just sorta ends with at best: Shepard barely alive under a pile of rubble with no superweapon to fend off the Reapers. As a result the galaxy is destroyed and everyone you know and love dies. Congratulations for discovering the truth? C2) and of course everything in the ending is fake, so what little resolution there was for any outstanding characters or anything is also fake. So if we hold that the indoctrination theory is absolutely a 100% valid interpretation of the ending, we're left with an ending where your choices don't matter, nothing is real so nothing is resolved, the galaxy dies, and the player was tricked the entire time. Which is basically all of the things that people complained about with the original ending, with some extra nonsense on top of it that only further unresolves more parts of the game. Is there a potential plot hole in the original ending in that the various races are stranded in the Sol system after the war with no means of warping out quickly and thus millions of people would die due to lack of resources? Sure that's bad, but in the I.T. ending the entire galaxy dies so all of your efforts in all three games are for naught. Just because it took some effort to unravel the supposed conspiracy, doesn't magically make it into a well written ending. People are conflating the fact that they are shocked by the twist or saw how many pages of analysis it took to "prove" that this was the "real" ending or whatever, and assuming that means it's a quality ending without actually thinking about how it fits into the narrative. Like at the end of the day, the Indoctrination Theory can be summed up as "It was all a dream so none of it was real." I get wanting *anything* different to fall back onto after how deeply unsatisfying the original ending was at the time, but imo that proposed alternate reading is so much worse.

@ABonafideSkeleton

2 жыл бұрын

@CrossCynical I disagree, the indoctrination theory is just as bad if not WORSE than the story we got since it also completely invalidates your choices. It doesn’t fix anything, it’s swapping the shit ending with an equally shit “it was all just a dream” ending, it’s the product of desperate fans clinging to something, anything, to justify the ending.

@TheSlammurai

2 жыл бұрын

@Serac The devs themselves have debunked the indoctrination theory. I mean if you want to believe it that's fine, but its been confirmed to be non-canon.

@nagger8216

Жыл бұрын

@@ABonafideSkeleton I don't even get how the Indoctrination Theory is even an ending. Like, Shepard chooses Destroy, but then he'd still just wake up on Earth nearly dead and needing to get the Crucible to dock with the Citadel. It really doesn't solve anything besides the stupid Star Brat bullshit

Marauder Shields, the final boss of the entire Mass effect trilogy needs to be brought back as a big bad guy in the next sequel

@mikemcglasson1286

2 жыл бұрын

I remember my Xbox 360 crashing after shooting Marauder Shields. It's like he tried to warn me to just stop there...

@randominternetsurfersurfin7595

2 жыл бұрын

Marauder Shields resurrected in doometernal

We definitely didn't need games like Mass Effect 3 to screw up in order for these publishers to "learn." The entire reason people were so mad is because they were trying to brute force through common sense mistakes. The attempted lesson there was "what if they let us get away with it?" And the answer they got was "No."

Obligatory shout-out to Shamus Young's Mass Effect whole series retrospective, a novel-length series of blog posts, I think he published it in a book at some point, it goes through the whole thing from beginning to end. What worked, what didn't, what really, REALLY didn't... Mass Effect could have been something transcendently great, and however it came out, it sure wasn't that. It's just slowly slipping into the rear view mirror, another series that has its fans but is kind of just over.

I was playing through this with my fiancé watching, recently. She was LIVID when she found out that Javik was dlc.

@Hillthugsta

2 жыл бұрын

A shame he didnt matter or change the narrative in any meaningful way.

@dancinginfernal

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hillthugsta Eh, his arguments with Liara and his takes on the various planets and development of how societies have progressed (and honestly I love how much of a dickhead he is). He's great in the temple on Thessia.

@Hillthugsta

2 жыл бұрын

@@dancinginfernal Right. Thessia. That was the only time he had contributed in a meaninful way to the lore. That said, I loved his exchange with Wrex about eating Selariens.

@sokumotanaka9271

2 жыл бұрын

Solidarity with your GF a brought Javik about a couple years ago and played through the entire game, and he has so many interactions with the characters, the setting and the environment and it adds SO much to the entire series and I was BAFFLED to find out I had to spend 50 + 50 more for both a complete experience but for a satisfying game play experience! It's inexcusable I'm glad they refined this newer version and put him in as normal; however I'm with pat that should of been the default setting. and the most messed up thing JESSCIA CHOBOT!!?

@SoaringLettuce

2 жыл бұрын

Man, it would be really fun to see that indignation. You meet Javik, have all these conversations with him and AFTER, find out he's DLC. Nuts.

Also let's not forget the other part of the ME3 Controversy wherein people like IGN - whom has that cameo, hmmmm... - told us "Fuck you, that shit dessert we served you was gourmet and delicious!"

Well its essentially like Game of Thrones, except it was instantaneous. Game of Thrones lasted many, many, seasons so you got to enjoy it. Then the ending happened and now Game of Thrones is known only for its ending.

@ricardomiles2957

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not a GoT guy but when I got to hear people to talk about it, even before season 7 ended, was that GoT was already out of it's peak and the final season was one deep dive in to shitness

@cyberninjazero5659

2 жыл бұрын

@@ricardomiles2957 Yeah the turning point was season 4 after that it was the long fall

@NeoBoneGirl

2 жыл бұрын

That’s pretty much any narrative thing that ends shit. It poisons the entire experience for the rest of time

@billqiu4692

2 жыл бұрын

@@cyberninjazero5659 Season 5 was when the quality changed so I'd say s5 was the turning point mainly, S4 remains one of the best seasons of television I've personally ever seen.

@cyberninjazero5659

2 жыл бұрын

@@billqiu4692 The exact moment the show fell apart was when they ruined the last Tyrion Jamie scene kneecapping his entire arc going forward

I played the Mass Effect Trilogy in 2015, and the only thing I knew was that 3 was divisive. So, I felt weird when I ended up liking 3 more than 2, but considering what Pat said here, I’ve come to realize that it’s likely a result of me playing the game years after it’s release with all of the DLC. It’s the difference between “a long awaited finale with an incredibly disappointing conclusion filled with some aggravating business practices” and a “pretty good game with a weak ending”

@BlazeMakesGames

2 жыл бұрын

yeah you have to keep in mind the sheer amount of hype there was at the time. I got into the series right around when ME2 came out so I was right on that hype train along with everyone else. Mass Effect was like *the* biggest thing in gaming for a while and everyone was wondering how it was going to end. Looking back on it, ME3's ending would have had to be the most glorious thing of all time to satisfy everyone, so it being weak in any way, not like, life-ruiningly bad, just not very good at all, means that multiplied by all the hype it's clearly the worst piece of writing ever put to paper. I was one of the view voices back in the day that was trying to point out like pat is here that most of the rest of the game is actually pretty great with a ton of strong scenes. But Even I felt the sting of the ending back then.

@LunaticLK47

2 жыл бұрын

@@BlazeMakesGames Pat at least understood where the fans came from, and he said it perfectly with the "Steak and the poop" analogy.

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

Nah original fan and 3 has always been better than 2. 2 is what ruined the series, and in actuality it was dragon age 2 and its dumb 1 button reduced RPG mechanics bullshit.

@Jose_Doe

Жыл бұрын

@@Bourikii2992 never played dragon age 2 what do you mean by 1 button rpg?

@Bourikii2992

Жыл бұрын

@@Jose_Doe Almost all the actions are mapped to the A button cause BioWare was in this crackhead time of video game making. Also they removed pretty much removed most RPG stuff and turned their games into action series.

I'm both surprised and not surprised to hear that Pat never actually played through Mass Effect 3 to see the ending himself.

@Kango234

2 жыл бұрын

Seriously I remember him being very adamant that the whole game was bad on multiple occasions.

@The_Death_Owl

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kango234 to be fair Pat does that to a lot of things he hasn't seen/played. That being said there is an element of truth to what he's saying most of the time.

@sokumotanaka9271

2 жыл бұрын

@@The_Death_Owl True but also pat needs to eat some humble pie and not talk so confidently about things he doesn't know, as a portion of this podcast calls him out on.

@kylekillgannon

2 жыл бұрын

@@sokumotanaka9271 but he did know. I never touched Mass Effect in my life and even I knew because of how widely covered and discussed the ending is.

@miguelnewmexico8641

2 жыл бұрын

@@kylekillgannon then explain. let's see how close you are.

Not only is the multiplayer excellent, ME3 multiplayer was the true form of Mass Effect gameplay. I know people like the cast and the story, but in terms of sheer video-game-ness the multiplayer is a distilled and pure experience that feels fun and rewarding to play well and has tremendous re-playability that had tons of free expansion content added over a few years. I would pay good money for a standalone multiplayer remaster with no single player content attached.

@KingNanoA

2 жыл бұрын

It was far better than it had any real right to be.

@yoursonisold8743

2 жыл бұрын

I played it 2 years after the game came out and there were still lots of players on at all times. That's how popular it was.

@Hillthugsta

2 жыл бұрын

And they took that and put it in Andromeda's single player. By far the best aspect of that game.

@EnsignEpic

2 жыл бұрын

Every single one of you. I damn well better see you on a firebase in the next 24 hours. That is all.

@Triceritrozer

2 жыл бұрын

@@EnsignEpic Yessir

The original ending was so bad, people made a theory that the stuff involving the kid on earth, the dreams Shepard was having, and everything right before the ending was evidence that Shepard was indoctrinated by the Reapers. Somehow. I don't think anyone was seriously believing it was the intention for the ending, it was just an aggressive headcanon.

@shadowreaverrising1753

2 жыл бұрын

I still think they wanted to do it but couldn't make it work. Being pressed for time they kept the assets.

I thought all the stuff leading up towards the ending was great. I specially thought the final assault was amazing. Literally your entire squad gets blown up and then seeing shepard crawling through like tons of dead bodies on the Citadel was fucking raw man. But then that AI ghost child thing just had to come and ruin it.

@Mandorain

2 жыл бұрын

The look at earth scene five seconds before ghost kid was gold.

@Dante45p

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but then bioware regularly trash linear RPGs, namely jrpgs for not allowing player freedom So that was kinda not allowed

@homelessninja1661

2 жыл бұрын

@@KGhaleon Do you mean the Keepers? If so, they're more or less fully explained. They were one of the first races the Reapers conquered. They indoctrinated them and left them on the Citadel to maintain the station so arriving races would find it an attractive place to settle. They're the ones that open the conduit for the Reapers every 50,000 years, but the Protheans found out about it and blocked the signal in our current cycle, which is why Sovereign had to go to the Citadel and do it manually. After ME1 they're sorta just vibing I guess.

@unversedhero6028

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh, at the very least put spoiler tags on just in case Woolies reads the comments.

@unversedhero6028

2 жыл бұрын

@@KGhaleon Doesn't matter, he might at some point.

Everything up to Rannoch is amazing. I do love the Scooby-Doo Citadel dlc as well

Does anyone else feel like Woolie would love the mass effect series? I can see him and Reggie having a great time.

@Zangelin

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely.

@27TheMunchkin

2 жыл бұрын

I imagine the gameplay of 1 (& possibly 2) may be a hurdle but he's a sci-fi mark so i think he'd get invested & push through enthusiastically.

@bajscast

2 жыл бұрын

@@27TheMunchkin From what I know woolie already beat the first one back in the day. Just never continued from there

@dancinginfernal

2 жыл бұрын

@@27TheMunchkin I mean, Wools trudged through KOTOR2 with a gamepad, and that game controls like a car with no wheels.

@27TheMunchkin

2 жыл бұрын

@@bajscast ah i forgot

MrBTongue's videos remain the definitive source for all ME-ending discourse. That said, I'd say the extended cut (presumably part of the definitive edition) does help soften the blow enough so that it's, like, an actual ending. The fate of characters people like gets addressed, at least. There's some explanation of what fate awaits the future of the galaxy, for instance. Pat's experience won't be anything near the wham-cut-to-black abruptness, or just how weird the Skittles variant cutscenes feel interspersed with piano music you got circa 2012.

But we can all be happy WE'LL BANG OK was born due to this game

I don't remember the exact details of the interviews but when they asked Bioware about the lackluster single player experience their answer to that was "Play more multiplayer".

And no Woolie, besides the bubble that is EA, those "mistakes" didn't make other devs/publishers learn. Those were the standard practices of every major triple A developing/publishing company known in the industry til just VERY recently. Look at Ubisoft, look at Blizzard, look at Activision and continue to look at EA.

For Mass Effect 3 it's "the journey beats the destination" but goddamn if that destination is just not great. To me the only righy ending is Destroy, but goddamn does it invalidate a few things.

@tanakaba

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought Destroy was the best, because the other endings invalidated too much. Shepard was there to stop the Reapers, not enforce his will by becoming God Emperor or forcing all life to become bio-machines. Destroy was the most moral choice.

@bluerose5071

2 жыл бұрын

@@tanakaba Is it? You wipe out ALL synthetic life in the galaxy. Every AI, every Geth, EDI, and so much more. I don't think it's that cut and dry morally speaking.

@Jsay18

2 жыл бұрын

@@bluerose5071 In the perfect endings, if you pick destroy, Legion, EDI and everyone on the Normandy survive, iirc.

@JoseRS1186

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jsay18 But Why? I remember that being pointed out as being the writers not following their own logic or deliberate fan appeasing plotholes. (Which is often what "Perfect" Endings are.)

@bluerose5071

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jsay18 I got that ending when I finished the trilogy last week. EDI's name appears on the memorial wall in the cut scene where the love interest hesitates to put Shep's name on the wall

Mass Effect 3 was made during peak EA Games shittery, same with Dead Space 3. Very awesome games that suffered because greedy publishers are fuck-awful.

People need to remember that ME3's endings were so much worse at launch. So bad that they had to literally ""Patch" the endings. The endings most people hate are actually the better endings. That's how bad they were.

@erikwilliams1562

2 жыл бұрын

Indoctrination Ending was still superior BY FAR

@davidstinger1134

Жыл бұрын

@@erikwilliams1562 even if the Indoctrination Theory turned out to be true, it would still be some "it was all a dream" bullshit.

The big play is to do all of Mass Effect 3 - except the final mission. End it on the Citadel DLC and enjoy that, and then close the game. Get a piece of paper, and write an ending for Mass Effect 3. Whatever you put on that paper will be better than the actual endings.

Always remember Marauder Shields...

Mass Effect 3 had good combat, good characters, great performances and shockingly good multiplayer. The flaws were the insulting ending (which got reduced to a mediocre ending with the update), a terrible objectives menu and stripped down squad from ME2. Oh, and the multiplayer pioneered predatory lootboxes. The reason why the ending overshadows everything is because this is what the whole trilogy was building up to. It is the focal point of the series, the most important moment of the ME universe.

@king_big_pp

Жыл бұрын

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned my biggest issue with 3: The barebones stripped-down dialogue options. You barely talk with any characters on the Citadel and literally just push one button to "resolve all their issues"

@Jose_Doe

Жыл бұрын

The flaws were also some of the lead up to those great performances. I can buy the quarians being dumb enough to wage war against the geth during reaper invasion, but holy fuck at least try to make them look somewhat sensible instead of just straight up retarded

Mass Effect 3 was such a mess of good and really bad ideas that just dampen the experience. Like imagine being on a fairly good journey but on the trip you just stubble over a ton of rocks then off a cliff but you land in a safe pillows.

I remember beating this game when it and just sat there like I punched in the gut. After everything they had the balls to say ‘be sure to buy all the DLC to continue your adventures with Commander Shepard’

I'm still mad.

To this day, Jessica Chobot in ME3 STILL confuses me to this day

That poop on a plate comparison is so accurate. Basically when I hit Thessia I immediately shut down. 2/3 of that game is really good.

Mass effect 3 has one o of my favorite quest of the whole series.saving tail's home planet was one of the most satisfying things ive done in any game. Gut wrenching choices to be made that almost top the intensity of the final me2 mission. The citadel dlc will go down as my favorite of all time. As that is the true ending to mass effect 3.

@Satsaru

2 жыл бұрын

One of my siblings literally restarted the entire trilogy because they failed and got the scene where she jumps off a cliff. The ENTIRE trilogy just to make sure that didn't happen.

@Moostar95

2 жыл бұрын

Good for him. Its series ive played many times. Rare for games to make me do that.

@lance5445

2 жыл бұрын

geth did nothing wrong, suit rats killed themselves

@shadowreaverrising1753

2 жыл бұрын

Geth as jonny5's that didn't do nothing to the mean old quarians is hamfisted and corny as hell.

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

The citadel dlc is probably the worst dlc of all time. It's the marvel movie of dlc. Every character is the funny haha joke man even the villains and none of the jokes are actually funny.

"A game had to make these mistakes so that we could learn nothing" Fuck, when Pat is wrong he is extremely wrong. But he was so right about every single thing in this video.

I remember saying this a ton at the time of the game's release. Like yeah the ending was deeply unsatisfying and disconnected from the rest of the narrative, but the other like 80-90% of the game was still great. Hell I cried at certain plot points because they got me so invested. Honestly if you just stop playing when you walk into the beam thing at the end and then imagine what happened next, you're left with an otherwise great game that ends very abruptly. But as one of my favorite directors Ponysmasher pointed out, a great movie can be completely ruined by a bad ending, and the same is true for games. The ending is what you have most fresh in your memory when you walk out of the theater, so if the movie was great, but they pissed you off at the very end, you're going to be pissed off when you go home and talk way less about the bits you liked. I've always personally thought that the ending could be vastly improved by honestly just removing the choice at the end. The choice is extremely arbitrary and disconnected from the rest of your choices. And if you think about it, why would the ending of a game about the idea that your choices have consequences, be another choices? It should be the ultimate consequence of your choices leading up to that point instead of an opportunity to change your mind at the last second. Make it so that part of using the thing has it operating based on who you were as a person or whatever I don't know. Point being that Have a handful of things that can happen, and then have the game pick one for you by evaluating what you've done in the past. I'd obviously change more things about the ending if I could, but that's where I would start. Like maybe if you got control picked for you, it goes into more detail exactly what you do to Control them based on who you were and what you did. If you were selected for Destroy, maybe other things are destroyed or spared depending on what you've done. And like I said maybe there are more options beyond those two (and synthesis) that the thing could pick for you, like maybe you teleport them to another galaxy or convince them to act differently without directly controlling them. I'm not about to write an entire 100 page doc about all the different possible ways for it to go but the point is that there are things they could have done without changing *that* much about the core premise.

I know it's not healthy but dammit I'm still mad about the "endings"

@Brandon_Brando

2 жыл бұрын

Watching this brought up a lot of old emotions I only remembered the ending I forgot about everything else

@unversedhero6028

2 жыл бұрын

Move on, it happened and there's nothing you can do about it anymore.

@brokentower3148

2 жыл бұрын

@@unversedhero6028 They can play The Banner Saga, which was :threeguys:

@217adaptiveperspective

2 жыл бұрын

It's been almost 9 years

@LunaticLK47

2 жыл бұрын

Join the club. I never bought any BioWare game after ME3.

ME3 has the best and worst moments of ME rolled into one. I think the game reaches some of the highest highs in the franchise.

@GreekJR2

2 жыл бұрын

@@EpslionBear Tchunka is exactly what I was thinking about when I was talking about the best moments

@SoaringLettuce

2 жыл бұрын

Dude, the Thrasher maw killing the reaper was so fucking hype

@GreekJR2

2 жыл бұрын

@@SoaringLettuce I think the writers on ME3 hated ME2's cast, but Mordin had a great death wether you confronted him or supported him

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

As they should. Only good non 1 characters are legion and mordin. Mordin is the only reason I can even stomach mass effect 2. The rest are either mediocre or mass effect 1 characters.

It’s so funny to watch this in hindsight now that Red Shepard is on the loose in the Milky Way.

I was curious, so I looked into it. Was Prince of Persia (2008) called anything else, perhaps in a different region or in a fan community? The answer is that there WAS a Prince of Persia Zero, it was a mobile game tie in to the 2008 title. My assumption here is that Woolie just stated the wrong title, based on misremembering, but I wonder if it's possible he had some kind of interaction with the phone game (testing?) and that muddied the waters a bit?

Dammit Pat, why you gotta twist the dagger with the Dead Space 3 comment?

I still remember playing through the game for the first time and getting the prompt for more dlc to come as Pat described. So many feelings of confusion and bewilderment back then. I wonder if there is a screen capture of that dlc prompt from the original ending?

Man, that ME3 multiplayer was legit fun as hell, but the gatcha was INFURIATING. It wasn't cosmetic, it was entire playable character classes and weapons locked off behind lootboxes. And it was the worst kind, where you'd constantly get duplicates where instead of getting new shit, you'd get "Basic Bitch Assault Rifle Level 2" and crap like that.

I loved ME3 when I first played it. I had friends who had beaten saying it was bad, but I didn't understand. Then I heard stuff about the ending being no good. I decided to just shrug it off and enjoy the game. As soon as I finished the game, I understood the hate. When I got my ending, I thought "Well, that's okay. Not as terrible as people made it out to be." But then over the next couple days it started to sink in. It wasn't so much the ending was bad, but that it negated the premise of the whole series. That your choices mattered. None of them mattered in the end. It made it feel like I wasted my time for 5 years. Mass Effect was my favourite game franchise until that point. I'm aging thru legendary edition, but the magic is gone once you know what is coming.

@miguelnewmexico8641

2 жыл бұрын

i like it. it aligns with my worldview. choices do matter on a small scale. but go big enough, we're infinitesimal. we waste time for up too a hundred years or so, we live, we die. that's it. it actually feels selfish to me to think we can have an impact on the universe as a whole like that. it's cool to want to punch God in the face, but it ain't gonna happen.

i’ve got some friends whose first intro to mass effect was through the legendary edition, and as somebody who has played the trilogy many times over the years, the conversations i have with them about these games are both strange and refreshing. they have their own opinions on me3’s ending, but it’s more like.. very mild disappointment, compared to how pissed everybody was in 2012. imo it was a controversy of its time and i’m more tired of hearing about it than anything else. it’s nice talking to my friends who got into mass effect through mele, just discussing our fav characters, our shepards’ backstories, etc. it’s like a palette cleanser lol

The ending, the bad clay face graphics on some characters, and the odd physics on the vehicles I think, but that is all I knew about ME3 too.

There is a new ending mod (Audemus' Happy Ending Mod) for ME3LE made by the same guy managing the ALOV (upscaled 60hrz cutscene videos) mod that is very well done. It fits right in with the quality of the rest of the game's cutscenes, and is very easy to install. It doesn't fulfill the promise of what the original ending was supposed to be, but it cuts out the stupid BS in favor of a simpler but much more satisfying conclusion. It even adds an explanation for the crucible which makes it no longer straight up space magic. Very much recommend it if either of ya play ME3 in the future. There's also a mod that goes along with it that turns the Citadel DLC into an epilogue set after the ending, removing the tonal whiplash that otherwise occurs and lets the party you have at the end fulfill the promise multiple characters make over the course of the trilogy to get together and party/drink when everything is over. The LE version of it (the Citadel Epilogue Mod) is being worked on as I write this and is supposed to be out sometime this year. It really is amazing how much the fans have actually managed to improve upon ME3's weak areas through mods. Definitely not something you see everyday and a testament to the impact these games had on a lot of people.

My favorite memory of ME3 is that SFXT came out the exact same day - just in time to get double dunked :D

Smudboy's analysis of Mass Effect 3's ending, and the extended cut, says everything I want to say. That's what I point to every time. You took my dog out back and shot him to paint the shed red in his blood. So much for your artistic vision.

I didn't know Javik was a thing until I played the definitive edition on Wii u

Pat looking like a sweet yellow bean chair with a head.

sorry I'm not used to the short names of games but may I ask what was the game Woolie kept calling as POPs

@Revan058

2 жыл бұрын

Prince of Persia. In particular, he's talking about the 2008 release

@Oishizou

2 жыл бұрын

@@Revan058 My mind was going to Portable Ops. Thank you dude

I think the best way to describe Mass effect 3 is a similar situation with Game of thrones season 8 there was so much build up and anticipation and lies told that when the final product came out it couldn't measure up

In hindsight the day 1 dlc party member would have made more sense to have been the Virmire Survivor and the dlc mission is getting them some swanky new medicine that will fix em up otherwise they stay hospitalized. They already feel like an afterthought in comparison to the actual DLC party member. The From The Ashes party member is so integrated into the story its crazy

Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite video games ever, and 99.9% of Mass Effect 3 is one of the best games I’ve ever played. But the last 0.1% of ME3 is so bad it soured me on the series forever. ME3’s ending to this day remains the yardstick by which I measure all disappointing endings by.

@copiagueeagle

2 жыл бұрын

Soured on the series is crazy dramatic imo. For me ME1 is my fav game ever and I have replayed it probably 8 or 9 times, ME2 I think ive played twice and I just try to forget ME3 was even a thing personally lol. I still love the series, just tend to stay away from one half more than the other, kinda like the star wars franchise.

@gdhuertas07

2 жыл бұрын

@@copiagueeagle Some folks have a hard time watching early Game of Thrones knowing how it all ends. I feel the same way about Mass Effect. The first two games are still great, but I’ve got no desire to play them anymore knowing how the series ends.

It's almost impressive that ME3 ends so bad the everyone forgot about the good parts of the game

Really liking Woolie’s new beard

Honestly I hate the Citadel DLC's whole conflict. It reads like a bad Fan fiction, and the villain's plan still had me like "Wait, what was your plan?"

@Zangelin

2 жыл бұрын

I mean it's like a bad star trek episode, that's what makes it so good.

@supermutantsam1160

2 жыл бұрын

That’s kind of the joke, it’s a ridiculous and silly conflict for a DLC that was made for the express purpose of fun and fanservice. And the game itself points out how the villain’s plan doesn’t really make sense.

@sonicboomers122

Жыл бұрын

It would be fine if the reaper threat and we could have time for silly funizes. Literally millions of people are dying per day while we are fuckng around

Looking through the comments to see who remembers them saying they wouldn't do a A,B,C ending. Glad to see some people did. That moment when you realize that no matter what you do same things will happen with just different people. When you realize there was no plan. They just wanted to make three games in the same universe.

Unfortunately, Pat barely scratches the surface on the fuck ups they made with 3. And yes, they were fuck ups. But I'm not holding it too much against him considering he just started playing it. Yeah, and all the dlc was ON TOP OF the multiple versions of 3 people got based on how much cosmetic/tertiary stuff they wanted (I know, I was one of them). Among the many many MANY issues of 3 was the blatant over advertising and commercialism of the game before release. Folks can like 3 for what it is, an actiony sci-fi shooter with polish. But that, in itself, is what made it not work, especially for those that started the franchise from beginning to end. It was a sci-fi based RPG with action IN IT. They emphasized that with 1, hit their stride and balanced those elements out in 2 (albeit some cut corners for timing purposes) but treated 3 like a sci-fi shooting cash cow it never was intended to being. There's far more emphasis on action than trying to give significant pay off to those that became invested in the writing and characters. You can have BOTH great writing and great shooting gameplay. That's not even covering how they implemented side quests, how they implemented the choices and how much they mattered at the end (spoilers: they amounted to numbers and nothing else), how they added unnecessary fluff in some of the gameplay elements such as weapon customization. But despite all of that, EA/Bioware chose not to consider those things during development. Instead they chose to go the scummiest, most hand waving path possible to nickel and dime the fan base. That's what made it bad, not just the ending. 3 was the legit first time I felt confused and robbed by a publisher. Granted this happened close to 10 years ago, but I since boycotted EA and everything they put out since then. And when I saw they had the gall to re-release it all over again, I knew they didn't learn shit back then and continue to not learn now.

@music79075

Жыл бұрын

If the Mass Effect 3 that we got then was the ME3 we got with the Legendary Edition I think it would have been far better received. It still would have been false advertising in regards to the endings since they had repeatedly expressed and promised that there "would not be a simple color coded ending or A, B or C option". But yeah Javik being Day 1 DLC and the Ending combined are what made me refund the game after playing it a bit.

When Bioware is finally euthanized, maybe EA will let them choose the color of the decorations at the wrap party.

I'm sure someone was taking notes on the mistakes made here with Mass Effect, but it wasn't Bioware.

Okay wait I heard the citadel dlc wasn’t included in the remaster is it actually in or not?

@shadowreaverrising1753

2 жыл бұрын

Citadel is in.

How have neither of these two ever heard of the journey of me3

They had a lot of other issues going into the endings. The ending was terrible but Bioware had burned a good portion of their good will leading to the ending controversy. Javik being day 1 dlc. Being on disk was a very big talking point and removing his importance from the story was the most baffling dlc choice Bioware ever did. Less party members. Fans wanted one last journey with their favorite character. The characters got proper send offs but people wanted them to be party members. Adding the multiplayer. People felt they were taking resources from single player to make it. And a lot of people in the industry(journalist, developers, and publishers) began the death of single player games narrative. Needing to play it to unlock all the endings did not help. The third book sucked. That thing was not only poorly written it also had factually wrong retcons to the lore and characters. Lowering the amount of dialogue options and adding auto dialogue. Taking away choices was Mass Effect 3's biggest mistake. A lot of players still hated the shift from traditional RPG elements and saw the entry as continuation of that trend. We can blame EA for the rushed timeline of development but the Bioware team who made Mass Effect 3 was/is adamant that they stand by the decisions made regardless of the circumstance. I just hope the next entry does better whenever/if it gets made.

The ending of Mass effect 3 completely killed the entire franchise, which at that point was extremely popular and imo had the potential to dethrone (or at least compete with) Star Wars and Star Trek in terms of popularity and cultural relevance. The ending and the subsequent reaction by the devs was THAT bad. Mass effect went from being talked about everywhere to "never heard of it" like *that*. Terrifying, but also a good lesson for everyone else watching.

@yoursonisold8743

2 жыл бұрын

Uhm, Andromeda still came out. The franchise wasnt dead at all. Though Andromeda's bad launch actually put a nail in the coffin.

@miguelnewmexico8641

2 жыл бұрын

it was never as big as Star Wars or Star Trek. trust me. cultural relevance? other than the "Alien Sex Sim" newstories no one who didn't play video games knew what it was.

My only knowledge of bioshock multiplayer was going over to a cousins house (of course I was a child so I didn’t have a choice) and basically just having to watch them play as they keep saying “yeah sure, one second” and I never played. Also some bullshit early 2000’s music was being played nonstop, in hindsight I think of it like that clockwork orange scene where the guys strapped to a chair

The kid is still there. The reveal at the end crushes the mystic of the major threat of the series. The ending post extended cut fits the stories theme. There is a very good reason you don't find out what happened next. The fans complaining is the same energy as "I want mah cartoon sonic!"

I played Arkham Knight on PC like 6 months after the initial release. It ruled. That was five years ago and I haven't uninstalled it yet.

I remember that multi-player mostly because I didn't have internet at the time and after doing everything in the game I still didn't have enough points for the good ending

15:32 who is Andall?

I mean, sudden MacGuffin Plot Device that fixes all our problems aside, the story’s pretty good save for anything directly relating to the Reapers.

@buckmoonmedia5113

2 жыл бұрын

Weirdly enough, I always saw the Reaper-centric plot as the weakest point in any of the games

@SoaringLettuce

2 жыл бұрын

@@buckmoonmedia5113 maybe the reapers themselves aren't weak, it's just that the characters and setting are so much stronger, the main plot is the weakest link in the chain.

@buckmoonmedia5113

2 жыл бұрын

@@SoaringLettuce thank you, that's a much better way of describing it

Pat doesn't mention that Digital Extremes did the mutli player for Bioshock 2, the guys who made Warframe something he plays a lot of.

CHOICE 👏 SLIDESHOWS👏! Cheap and effective. Throw a bunch of text over it and you’re good. The Citadel DLC redeemed everything for me, but I still think the extended ending throws out the themes they’d been building up to even if they eventually went, ‘okay, fine, we’ll do the slideshow’.

@Bourikii2992

2 жыл бұрын

The worst marvel movie level writing redeemed an already good game with a shit ending?

Does Assassins Creed Odyssey have a proper ending in the base game? because I played that thing for what it feels like an eternity and never reached it, or is the ending on some of the dlc? I feel like games as a service is the modern equivalent of having you pay for the ending.

@kingdommkeeper620

2 жыл бұрын

There's 3 separate endings for AC:O. 4, if you add in the ending of the Atlantis DLCs. There's one for finishing all the main story missions, which has multiple different variables. There's one for killing every member of the cult. And there's the true ending where you kill the four mythical creatures.

14:53 I get what Woolie is saying here, but damn… any other franchise could have been the one to teach what no to do in a Triple A game. Why did it have to be the franchise that, for awhile, was nearest and dearest to my heart?

What is Pop 0 and what happened with its true ending?

@Kango234

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's the Prince of Persia reboot from 2008 and that it had the ending locked behind DLC. But I'm not 100% sure.

@Ipsenscastle

2 жыл бұрын

Prince of Persia reboot with Nolan North etc - the ending came out as DLC waaay later after most people (including me) had already shelved it forever

@Agent789_0

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. That makes sense now.

oh yeah I remember the phase of AAA shoving multiplayer into EVERYTHING in the hope of it increasing player retention and becasue even back then "Single Player Games are dead" was already a thing... now we have live service bullshit and Slingle Player is still dead in the eyes of AAA.

ME3 was a fun ride, but the ending not only ruined it. After giving time to absorb. It lessen and made many awesome moments in the game look pretty stupid narratively to story. That really for me at least made it impossible to play for years after out. Given the emotional scenes on replay didn't hit half as hard like first and gave way to criticism of this is stupid... Because the story in how it's played out is pretty bad. People say and have legit reason for ME2, but ME3 takes it to eleven in stupid. Just coated over with some cool looking character moments and sacrifices. The Gameplay though definitely in many aspects are way superior to previous entries. Had less replay value for me. Even when the NG+ in 3 is so much better than ME2 who had the worse NG+ in the trilogy.

I played Mass Effect 3 on day 1 when it came out it its bare-bones state. No Javik, no extra cosmetics, no DLCs or anything. As Pat is saying, the journey was incredible but I heard about how bad the ending was before getting there myself. Didn't listen to any reviews or discussions about it because I didn't want anything spoiled. I got to the end, saw the ending, but I didn't quite get the emotions I was expecting. Based on how everyone was hating on the ending, I was expecting to be angry. I wasn't. I was confused. Apathetic. Didn't really know what to feel. I understood that I didn't like it, but not why. Then, some days later, AngryJoe posted a rant video about the top 10 (or more) reasons why ME3s ending sucked, and that video really helped me to internalize why it was so bad. I later bought all the DLCs and played the game with the "fixed" ending, but by then it was too little too late. The stink of EA had irredeemably spoiled the game. Playing it again now, 8 years later, with the entire trilogy back to back with all the EA crap removed, really helps to put into perspective how great the trilogy is and how seamlessly the three games run together. I'm glad I played them again, and even though I can never quite put aside all the bad things of the past I'm glad that there is now an "unsullied" version of Mass Effect available to a new generation.

ME1 > ME3 > ME2

"Ossera"

Everything up to the ending is at the very least good (mostly great) and it’s only ruined by the ending, needing to play online to get the “best” ending, and the day one DLC character which LITERALLY CHANGES EVERYTHING.

@KoopySandwiches

2 жыл бұрын

Luckily the Legendary Edition removes multiplayer and just makes you play through the single player mode.

@yoursonisold8743

2 жыл бұрын

I played it a year later, so maybe they hotfixed it by then, but ME3's best ending could always be achieved in single player. You need to do almost every side-quest and have made some good choices in prior games, but it was possible. Though with default game state it was nearly undoable.

@LunaticLK47

2 жыл бұрын

@@yoursonisold8743 You couldn't do it WITHOUT the Extended Cut DLC. Launch day, you were FORCED into Multiplayer. Didn't matter if you played through the DLC from ME1 and ME2. Even Javik's DLC had you shortchanged by 300 points.

I NEVER KNEW ABOUT EMILY WONG DYING AND I PLAYED AT RELEASE WOW FUCK THAT. I remember Jessica Chobot was big back then because she showed up in New Vegas’ Old World Blue DLC also.

@cthulhuhoops

Жыл бұрын

No she didn't lol

When I played ME3 back in the day, I honestly didn't realize how unimportant he was. Maybe its better to say non-vital? I barely used him on the team.

What the hell is Pop Zero?

@RippahRooJizah

2 жыл бұрын

One of the Prince of Persia games. The one for PS3 and 360.

@pyropoyo

2 жыл бұрын

I had no idea myself until I realized Woolie wasn't talking about a game called Pop Zero but actually Prince of Persia 2008 (which I guess is a prequel to all the other games? Hence the zero). Dont think I've ever heard anyone call Prince of Persia "PoP" before so I'm surprised Woolie didnt clarify for those not in the know.

@JoseRS1186

2 жыл бұрын

@@RippahRooJizah Ooooh. Right. @Dalton McBleh Maybe it's called that in Canada? I don't know but Pat seemed to understand, somehow.

@SBJ_Tube

2 жыл бұрын

@@pyropoyo POP 2008 is a completely different series than The Sands of Time. Different story, characters, gameplay, etc.

well yeah, it was 3 colors ending, not just 1. They added an extra ending as a fuck you to the fans who wanted more, but yeah, it was more than just an ending :3

I get Woolie's point that devs in that era NEEDED to make these big mistakes to learn to be better. It's just that sometimes they take the wrong lesson from what we expect them to find out.

Woolie vs the reapers when