Good morning! A couple of clarifications I might not have expressed well doing this live: 1) I like Bugg & Tehol quite fine. It's the humor that isn't hitting me yet. So easy with the "why do you hate Bugg" comments. That is untrue. 2) Yes, calling Rhulad "Trulad" at the end was intentional. That is what I was calling Rhulad after revealing his True self. Therefore... True Lad. Hey, I never claimed to be hilarious. Just wanted to clarify.

@alynam82

2 жыл бұрын

😆

@JohanHerrenberg

2 жыл бұрын

I get the sense Tehol still got to you... Trulad! :-D

@MrsAngua23

2 жыл бұрын

It was the same for me.... Regarding the hilarity of Tehol & Bugg - everyone was going on about them and I wasn't sure I had read the same book. I also don't think they're bad, but I just wasn't on the same level.

Just got back from a tennis match to find this waiting for me! No worries, Mike - I don’t think you’re a grumpy old man for not loving Tehol and Bugg’s banter. Tehol is my favorite character, but it’s possible that my humor hasn’t moved beyond my twelve year old self. Plus, I’m a big fan of puns - the worse the better. I love the honesty from you, and I’m glad things picked up as you read. You’re absolutely right about adjusting your expectations as a fantasy reader while reading Malazan. Great to hear your thoughts!

Mike: I’m not really clicking with Tehol and Bug Malazan fandom: *So You Have Chosen Death*

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

I’m not really clicking with Tehol and Bug('s humor). I feel like folks are paraphrasing. I like the character's fine. I'm just not LOLing without everyone else.

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews I end up with an Only Fools and Horses kinda vibe with those two except Delboy is really clever and rich but doesn't seem to know it. More of a sitcom than a standup show.

As ever, I greatly enjoy your perspective, I have radically different opinions, but I love hearing your thoughts. Great discussion Mike. I am greatly looking forward to the next one. One tiny thing to remember is that the 'conceit' of this book is that this is the story that Trull is telling Onrack. So Trull may have a very specific bias in talking about his brothers. Similar names being a problem... so tell me about the Targaryen family tree... 😁😁😁 Tiste family tree... you know how monks are all called brothers, people of a faith may call themselves children of X, a lot of the Tiste 'relationships' are tied up in myth, religion, and legend. So they are not necessarily literal blood relations. I think the way that I first thought about a lot of the Tiste relationships when I read this the first time was similar to the 'relationships' in the Greek pantheon. We have strange relationships, contradictory information, and a constant movement between literal and metaphorical information. Humour is entirely subjective, so I am only sorry that it didn't land for you. Tehol and Bugg/Blackadder and Baldric/Jeeves and Wooster.... maybe it is a British comedy thing. By the way, Top Secret is a film you can talk to Erikson about when you get a chance to chat with him.

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

And this is why I appreciate talking with you and Philip on all things Malazan because you both point out many ways of consuming the story I never even would have considered.

@ACriticalDragon

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews That is very kind of you to say. If we all thought and felt the same way about books life would be incredibly boring. And thoughtful, reasoned responses to books are always interesting, hence my enjoyment of your videos.

@alynam82

2 жыл бұрын

To have two gentlemen with PhD as Malazan resources is an absolute treasure

@kah-thurak

2 жыл бұрын

"One tiny thing to remember is that the 'conceit' of this book is that this is the story that Trull is telling Onrack. So Trull may have a very specific bias in talking about his brothers. " Honestly I dont see this happening here. This is not The Name of the Wind with everything beeing told from Kvothe's perspective. Yes we have the conceit that Trull is telling his Story to Onrack, but there are too many other viewpoints for me to take this literal and/or to assume that this is an "unreliable Narrator".

@ACriticalDragon

2 жыл бұрын

@@kah-thurak look at the narratorial commentary in the Prologue. That signals an unreliable narrator. Plus, the entire series is framed as a found text (signalled at the start of Gardens of the Moon), and book 8 has overt narratorial insertions.

So far, my experience with each book has been forcing myself through the first half and trying to convince myself not to quit, then hitting the second half and thinking "wow, he is a GENIUS writer, this is amazing". I'm still in the "forcing myself through" part of this book, but at least I feel safe in saying that, unless he radically shifted writing ability between the first four books and this one, I'm going to be loving the back half.

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha, yes! Every damn book. And I try to go into each new book with that attitude and I fall into the trap every single time.

“Polka dot Man” - ha ha! Erikson missed an opportunity for a cool extra name there. 😁 Like you, I feel bad for Rhulad, who is in way over his head.

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 жыл бұрын

Coinbearer #2

The relationship of Tehol and Bugg is what I love the most. I'm glad that you are enjoying this book and great to hear your honest perceptives.

The jaghut humour is the best!!

Good to know I am not alone in sitting back and watching it fly over my head

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha I think I started letting that happen when we got to the Azath stuff in Gardens of the Moon.

@tammaraliberty

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews 🙃

Refreshed my page looking for something to watch and see this was posted 1 minute ago. Excellent timing.

Great video, Mike. I’m really enjoying this one at the halfway mark.

I'm loving Midnight Tides. I'm 70% through the book now, and it's my favorite of the series so far.

@josephmissig5301

2 жыл бұрын

This is my favorite of the series as well.

I too know what being a Rhulad is like, my older siblings were 11 and 9 years older than me. And the whole concept of this guy getting to come back from the dead AFTER his body has been prepared is just so cool to me for some reason, and it just gets worse. Him and Iron Bars are my favorites in this book. And you say you don't like Bugg now but we will sea.

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 жыл бұрын

We will indeed. 🤣🤣🤣

@ivanjelenic5627

2 жыл бұрын

The name of the book is also quite fitting.

@heretic124

2 жыл бұрын

Love that pun 😏

Great video! I felt bad for Rhulad in the first half of this book too. Maybe it's a younger sibling thing, which I am as well. Chapter 11 is insanely good! Stunning art piece you shared, by the way. I hope you enjoy the rest of the book!

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

I hope so too!

“Every time you die, you level up? That’s weird” *laughs in Infinity Blade*

I needed a break from reading. After few months of not reading and then after that reading a few light books I'm back. Glad i had paused reading this, so that i could really enjoy the first half! Still going to finish Malazan read, but not keeping up with the read along. Still I'm very happy these videos are up and that I can watch them in my own pace :)

I finally hit Part Three today! I agree, I 'came out of the Malazan fog' much earlier than any of the previous four books so far. The ending of Part Two was excellent and I look forward to continuing tomorrow!

I wouldn't sweat the timeline stuff, there's some continuity errors with the years that even Erickson has admitted to.

I'm so glad you are clicking into the Sengar plot as much as i did. It's absolutely compelling storytelling. I thought it was really interesting how the Edur are such a tradition based society that always defers to authority. I absolutely could not believe it when Fear ceded his betrothed to Rhulad. Come ON Fear ARE YOU U KIDDING ME

Like I always comment in your Malazan videos, I got very very similar vibrations when I read MBotF to yours. It's frustrating and at the same time, it has really amazing moments. Wait till the final book and try to count the characters in it. The development of the series is made to hook you if you are a patient reader, I was but I have mixed feelings about the books. Of course hardcore fans are that, and I'm glad they enjoyed them but I think Erikson is a trickster, apart from being a good writer and planner. I like the way you see books, as a mixed reaction, and that you want to express that, well, if you criticize something it doesn't mean it's bad or you didn't like it. That's reality, mixed and complex. Thanks as always, Mike, your reviews are fantastically wonderful, and I love your style.

Trueladd... I love it!

"he's walking round permanently looking like the iron bank" 😂

I don't know why but this video was the funniest you've ever made. Malazan is getting to you Mike!

I didn't find Tehol and Bugg as hilarious as everyone seems to either, but I did find them funny and loved them more and more as the series went on.

@CaptainSilmar

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, I felt like Erikson tried a little too hard on the quippy dialogue between Tehol and Bugg. I like their arcs as characters for the whole series but I don't find them all that funny, too on the nose and also the sexual humor (especially at the expense of poor Ublala Pung) is really bad imo

@chadwhitfield6946

2 жыл бұрын

@@CaptainSilmar the back and forth between Tehol and Bugg is good with audiobook.

@MrPorko2c

2 жыл бұрын

I literally laughed out loud at some of Tehol’s conversations. I can’t remember the last time a fantasy author made me laugh out loud.

Fyi, holds and tiles are the precursor to warrens and the deck. The jaghut magic employed here hundreds of thousands of years ago effectively stopped magic in its tracks, so it never 'evolved' to the state it's at in the rest of the world.

Mike, I'm happy you're enjoying Midnight Tides thus far. By the way, that scene where Rhulad "wakes" up and speaks with Withal - that's not a flashback. When Rhulad dies his spirit ( in a manner of speaking ) ends up in the Crippled God's realm.

Yay Top Secret reference! Early Val Kilmer. I was so worried after House of Chains when people said Book 5 was Trull's story. Luckily it turned out more than fine, and one of the best in the series so far

I had my doubts about this book as well. I wasn’t thrilled with having a whole new cast of character for the 5th book in a row. But once it started to pick up I loved it. I’m about 2 chapters from the end. I do see what you are saying, I feel like Erickson brought out all the dad jokes.

I find Bugg and Tehol amusing but not laughing out loud hilarious

Personally I didn't find Tehol and Bugg hilarious, but they were mildly amusing

Top Secret is amazing, that's exactly where I went with the underwater fighting haha! When he throws the chair in slow motion and it still breaks apart. Anyway, I'll stop while I'm not ahead.

@madisongoodyear5040

2 жыл бұрын

Such a funny movie 😂

@ShelfCentered

2 жыл бұрын

@@madisongoodyear5040 Yes, another fan! There are dozens of us, dozens!

I think you’ll find bug and tehol funnier as it goes on, but really I feel like Erikson was just thinking ok I need so more light hearted and not so serious characters because I think that’s the one thing the series has been lacking up to that point is a good break up of serious and grim dark moments with lighthearted moments so the tension isn’t running so high with all the gloom and doom over the course of 1000 pages :) sounds like you are enjoying it though, hope you are having a kickass week sir. Thanks for the quality content

I like the book so far, it has been great as soon as I got into it. Udinaas is interesting, the Sengar brothers are great and Tehol & Bugg are really funny. Looking forward to continue tomorrow with chapter 12

definitely a book about brothers. i think the thing with Tehol and Bugg is a matter of expectations. If everyone told you they were great you have high expectations, but if you had just stumbled on them without being aware they are better. i don't find them necessarily hilarious (but there are moments) but i think their characters are fascinating when they interact with others. The Sengar brothers are my favorites, Trull at the top, maybe in the whole series (so far), but there are so many characters i really liked in this book, i think that's what made it so good overall. This book holds together as a single book the best, IMHO, there are certainly questions at the end but i think overall many of the questions you have at the beginning are answered at the end, still lots of RaFO though. I appreciate you trying to lay down your thoughts because if I had tried to explain what i just read after reading any of these books there would be an hour of "ums".

@JoffJk

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree re Tehol and Bugg.

Just seeing the title of the video and i was like Oh boy here we go.

It is a balance between the frustration of not following everything with the curiosity to see how things end up and if the story/characters are interesting enough to keep you motivated. You have passages of 'huh?' mixed in with 'holy crap!'. And a couple of 'oh, that's just wrong.' And once again, a duo with Rhulad and Udinass. But there is a lot of politics in Lether to keep track of and watch as it plays out.

As someone who has read the Kharkanas books, don’t worry too much about the Tiste family tree.

@Severian1

2 жыл бұрын

Kharkanas just chucks everything we know from the books out the window. Gotta give it to Erikson. The man is bold.

@jvaralves

2 жыл бұрын

Was really sad he postponed the third book, loved the first two

@KalleVilenius

2 жыл бұрын

@@jvaralves He'll finish the third Kharkanas book as his next project.

Aside from the initial part of this book I've loved it so far. The others were a real struggle to get into and then picked up in the second half. But already this one is grabbing me. I agree this is a 'bro book' so many brothers in this story and I feel like the relationship between them is the main theme, maybe more will show up as we go.

The prologue is one of my favorites of all time

Nice, from here on out you are off and running.

Oh Mike, it’s heartbraking seeing you struggle so much staying positive about this series. It’s not a surprise since you have King and Abercrombie book not being read while you are pushing trough.

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

I’m not struggling to stay positive at all. I’ll always be honest. If you watch the House of Chains spoiler talk I think you’ll see that if I don’t like something I’ll say it.

@SonOfSeth

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews Oh, ok then. In that case, I’m just projecting my own frustrations.

I had the exact same felling for the first half of the book. The second part is some of the best in the series. There are plenty of other reasons to love Bug and Tehol. I never thought the humor was great The zombie sex stuff is a bit off putting, but after all that they still ended up being my two faves so far. Thank you for all you do mike.

As always, I really enjoy your opinions/perspeective. 1) Regarding Bugg and Tehol...I absolutely agree, feels like people are so happy about a bit of "light hearted fun" in the books because everything else is just depressing lmao 2) Agreed with you, we´re at a point were if a name is important than it will come up again, if it doesn´t then it doesn´t haha this approach has worked very well so far and I´m on book 8 now. So rock on mate 3) I kept hearing that this book is one of the best in the series and I gotta say...I don´t see it. Really didn´t resonate all that much with me. Still rate it 4.25 of 5* but so far one of my lesser favorites...

The narrator of the audiobook does and excellent job with Tehol and Bugg (especially Bugg). I found these sections quite funny, maybe because of the narrator's presentation. I suspect there is quite a back story for these two. Hopefully this will be explored in the second half of the book.

Quite fitting that the Malazan book with the most humour also has the most hilarious of your reviews.

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

I didn't think I was that funny this review. So I'm going to assume folks are laughing AT me, not WITH me.

@farhad_s

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha not at all. Specially the sorcerer brother whose name shall not be remembered and his hip injury, and the Top Secret reference. There's more. I'm sure you didn't aim for a funny review, and it isn't overall, but it had some literal lol moments for me. Btw, pretty sure I've also pissed off quite a few vets with my death but not really jokes on Discord.

I love your initial reactions-you’re pretty much exactly where I was as I was going through the series for the first time. Except I did find Tehol and Bugg hilarious…but humor is pretty subjective.

Off to a roaring start 🤣

Rhulad is top 5 Malazan character for me for sure. But I like the characters that are hard to like haha I also was tripped up by the Baruk thing.

I have fallen behind schedule and just reached the midway point of Midnight Tides. I hope I will catch up to you again during october or november, but I was planning on reading the Ian C. Esslemont books as well, so I am not sure how that will work out.. Regarding Bugg and Tehol, I fully agree with you. I think they are fine characters, but the humor does not really do it for me. I have the same problem with Kruppe, and with Wit from Stormlight Archive.

11:00 yeah I also see it as kinda their deck of dragons divination tool

Holds:Warrens::1700s field artillery:modern handgun

Tehol and Bugg are by far my fav duo in the series so far, BUT humor is very subjective AND it is NOT just humor with them. If it were but humor, those two wouldn't be my favorite.

It's taken me so many videos to realize that the hands on the clock don't move.

About the Edur's believes: I think Father Shadow who is Scabandari Bloodeye doesn't have 3 daughters as I understood it. They think that there are 3 daughters (I forgot the names) and only his favorite daughter is his daughter and the other 2 are Osserc's (which is the same as Osric I think and therefore they're L'oric's sisters or half sister if Osserc and Osric are the same). And Scabandari and hus daughter... like they too are imprisoned in the Azath. I speculate that the one Kettle said is telling her she can become Empress is in truth Scabandari's daughter tho it's like nothing evidence based and pire conjecture

I tell friends malazan is 20 books because you have to read it twice, and nome of them ever read it lmao

I think the book takes place in 1159 which is around 5 year before the previous one

About Rhulad: at first I was what a shit creeping on your brother's betrothed back off, then later I'm like maybe it's really just Trull being too concerned and suspicious and then he demands to take his brother's betrothed as his own and I'm like why did I ever doubt Trull. It was truly a rollercoaster. Also Fear is the oldest and very influential cuz he was Weapon Master which is the one teaching the young warriors to fight and later becomes War Master which is basically a General. Binadas is the 3rd son and the sorcerer, Trull is the 2nd son and I guess kinda nothing special in the eyes of the Edur except for being a noble and well Rhulad is a piece of shit

my book is marked up with Udinas passages his insight is cold

Many times the slightly different names are indicators that it is the same person in a different region or time period

Best book in the series!

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

It's certainly up there.

Tehol and Bugg were based off the British comedy-drama 'Jeeves and Wooster.' British humor isn't for EVERYone Edit: there's a series with sir Hugh Laurie and Steven Fry that presents this dynamic perfectly

Will there be a spoiler free video for midnight tides?

I actually think this is the least confused I’ve been in any of the books so far.

Sad tehol and bugg and the humour aren’t landing for you. IMO the only fantasy author that touches Erikson when it comes to humour is pratchett. Dick jokes abound in his work so maybe that won’t be your thing either haha. Hopefully the incredible story carries you through!

slowly coming to realization that malazan just isn't up Mike's alley 😂😂😂

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I always read 4000 pages of series I’m not into.

The timeline gets messed up here. You just need to know that this takes place before GotM, otherwise you’ll get all confused as I did.

I feel like we had polar opposite experiences in this novel. I haven't hated a book like Midnight Tides since I read Republic of Thieves by Scott Lynch. I enjoyed the comedy aspect, but every other part of this felt miserable to me. I don't think I could be paid to care about a single character in this book

Bryce master race

#TeholForPresident 😊 No hate, just my personal preference. That being said, the Jaghut have the best humor imo

Humor is subjective, but I don't know if I can support someone who doesn't find Tehol and Bugg funny. In all seriousness, I listen to the audiobooks, so I don't know if the narrators delivery at 1.5 speed contributes more to the humor or not. Then again, I love the Bauchelain & Korbal Broach series, and that isn't in audio yet. Maybe the humor will grow on you as you go. *shrug*

Remember the ritual in the prologue performed by the Jaghut? It had a wider effect on the continent. Basically Warrens are a further evolution of the Holds. The Jaghut's ritual froze the magical evolution of the Letherii continent. It also locked the continent in time in other respects. They have a lot of similarities with the First Empire because the continent didn't move on because of the ritual. With Udinaas, it happened in the weirdest cosmic way ever. Menandore did rape him. It's messed up. The timeline is a mess Mike. It feels like Dark Souls without the item descriptions. Don't bother yourself about it.

Wait, were you calling him True Lad? 🤣🤣🤣

@mikesbookreviews

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Intentionally. See the pinned comment. I should have explained it in the video, I just forgot.

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews I wasn't sure if I was hearing it properly. Damn funny. 🤣

@Paul_van_Doleweerd

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikesbookreviews The Sengar Brothers does sound a bit like a washed up country and western act...

Tbh Tehol and Bugg are funnier in later books. At least the jokes and puns were more to my taste later. I love Monty Python and this is exactly that.

Tehol and Bugg are certainly an acquired taste and they never read as overly hilarious to me. For me, the humor is more of an absurdist camaraderie between two bros who have known each other a long time. That said, their humor has grown on me over time. Its humor is very much part and parcel with the overtly satirical nature of the Lether empire which for me had my favorite kind of gallows humor. Slight correction on Midnight Tides: it precedes Gardens of the Moon chronologically and is technically the earliest point in the timeline for the main story. But that's a somewhat minor detail and it's not super relevant at this juncture.

I didn’t laugh at Kruppe. Didn’t really find Pust entertaining. The situational humor of Tehol and Bugg scenes did make me laugh. To each their own. But the situations… are just so absurd. And yet I root for them. And they are the cleverest and most competent. I however sort of understand what they are doing. I’ve heard that story before.

Is it safe to say if you don't/won't re-read this series it's probably not worth reading the first time? Seems like it might be amazing on a re-read...maybe even mandatory...but re-reading a giant series like this is a huge time commitment...even the first read through is a huge time commitment...not sure I'd want to go through it again when there are sooooo many books out there i want to read for the first time. I'm so torn on starting this series....seems horrible to be quite frank, but the potential awesomeness a re-read appears to be for most people sounds pretty ... awesome. :)

@sluper12345

2 жыл бұрын

I certainly wouldn't say that. I've read it once, didn't get everything all the time. But hey, that's ok! Its still one hell of a journey even if you don't want to start over. I didn't plan re-reading going into it. But after finishing the Crippled God a year ago, I immediately wanted to start over. I've been doing my best to wait wit the re-read until Erikson finishes the Kharkanas prequel trilogy. But every time I'm picking up a new book, my eyes starts to wander towards GotM...

@coolty545

2 жыл бұрын

I loved the series on my first time through. It does get better on a re-read, but they're damn good fantasy books.

@ivanjelenic5627

2 жыл бұрын

I never re-read it, and I found it as one of the best fantasy series of all time, maybe even my #1. I cried in more than one book, and I was hyped in some parts of the story. Yes, some parts of the books are a slog (usually the first half of the books), but it's completely worth it in the end, there's many AMAZING moments and stories in there, and most of them fit together by the end, for even more awesomeness. Yes, some things fly over your head, but you figure them out later in the series, or you don't - and that's fine, don't stress it and just keep reading.

Im 3/4 through this book and though I liked the first four…Im just not feeling it with Midnight Tides.

Don't feel bad, I didn't find Tehol and Bugg nearly as funny as the fanbase generally does either. And I love Kruppe. How MT rates the favorite book of the fanbase I've never understood. Because the Eder didn't click with me in the 1st books, so I don't empathize with them. And Lether is a civilization seemingly built so you can hate it. Basically, this book falls into the trap of why I don't read Grimdark: There is no one I care a spit about in the entire book. But hey, that makes me feel better in Reapers Gale. Which also answers the Hold/Warren relationship.

Feather Witch doesn't deserve a cool name

@ACriticalDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Her real name was probably Susan or Karen. She was just trying to be edgy when she turned up in the village and picked a 'cool' name.

Tehol/Bugg aren’t hilarious.. they’re mildly humorous. definitely get Wooster/Jeeves vibes. i like their scenes, since there is a lot of in-world knowledge to be had.

I don't get the Imperial politics. I feel like Brys having no clue what all are saying in the palace

I did smile on the Wool Tea but the constant eating wierd stuff jokes aren't as funny. Its OK, but not as funny to me as it is to others, I guess. The Oontooloo or whatever was shocking, but just became creepy after that. Ublala Pung was funny at first, too, but changed into another cringeworthy arc for me. First few chapters were chore reading for me, too. There are moments of cool stuff still (ch17 by now), but there are still some soliloquies that could be shorter. Udinaas and Feather Witch are becoming the part of the story that is most interesting to me, not at first for sure, but they are developing into characters I am interested in.

Nobody stays dead

Trhulad lmao

I completely agree with you regarding the humour: once it's ok, twice also, but all the time - these characters behave like 12-year-olds in the schoolyard.

Kruppe is the worst. I skip all his scenes now. Tehol and Bugg being sarcastic is enjoyable... but not necessarily funny.