tod at tod's workshop shows some in-depth ways of making medieval-style crossbows and explaining some of the trigger systems

@duanebrady8446

3 жыл бұрын

Beat me to this comment, tod has some great stuff

@MrGrimsmith

3 жыл бұрын

His lockdown longbow build would be a good starting point for the mechanics as it's essentially the same as this one. Still nice work here though!

I don't know where all this crossbow content came from on my recommended but I'm happy about it lmao.

Here in the Blue Ridge mountains the old timers would sometimes make crossbows. They mostly used what they called a 'slat & riser' trigger, which years later I learned was the Skane Lock Bow. The prod wood of choice was dogwood, because it really can take punishment. And the older it gets, the stronger it gets. I have made a few, and they come in at about forty to fifty pounds draw weight. Good for small game out to about fifteen yards. The slat and riser also made it convenient to set the crossbow up as a trap, using a small deadfall or bent sapling to trigger it. The slat is about six inches long by half an inch thick, usually oak. It had 'ears' carved or glued to the pivot end it. The ears forked the tiller, and a pin went through the ears and tiller to make a pivot point. The pivot point was always forward of and above the end of the slat which pushed up the riser, so the slat came up flush with the bottom of the tiller. The riser pin, usually oak or black locust, was about 3/8s inch in diameter. Works fine, lasts a long time, and can be fixed or replaced with a pocketknife.

I also mounted a brush arrow holder in the front to keep the string up off the rails. Made the holding fork on the trigger part much higher as well ... Shoots nice and smooth.

Good start Kramer. From the video, I don´t have a comment on the bow, but when you hammer or bend something in the vice, always hammer towards the fixed vice jaw.

Yeah man, if you have a look at the older designs, they often have a more horizontal trigger, with quite the lever arm. The nut should not have that backwards travel that you got. Experiment with different placements of the hole in the trigger piece, to get it to leave the notch in the nut in a as vertical as possible way, eliminating the back travel and a lot of tension in the trigger. I usually mock them up in miniature with some thick cardboard first, to make sure the design works:)

Man you and Joerg Sprave need to brainstorm something. That would be epic.

Awesome first crossbow. If you look at medieval bows you will see that most of their trigger leavers are much longer then yours. this is probably the easiest way to make the trigger easier to pull. A second important factor in these triggers is the angle between the contact surface (disc /leaver) to the tangent of the circle around the leaver pivot. if the angle is to acute, the trigger disc needs to rotate back to far before the release --> needs a lot of force. if the angle is to shallow the force of the bow will trigger the mechanism without pulling on the it. the goal here is the sweet spot, where the disc just has to rotate back a tiny amount, but the leaver is still holding the disc in place safely.

Keep it up man , love from Pakistan, may Allah (god) give u millions of subscribers.

Awesome first crossbow, keep it up and make another! Faster and easier to shoot well, is one of the reasons the crossbow was a game changer in warfare. It's not the depth of the roller's notch that makes it hard to pull, it's the angle that's making the trigger pull so tough. Draw a circle, centered on the trigger's pivot point, that goes through the middle of the trigger/roller contact surface. This design has that trigger/block surface at about 45° to the tangent of the circle, and you really want it to be about 3° to 5° to the tangent. That way the trigger's "block" neatly slides out of the roller's catch notch with almost no backwards movement of the roller. This one has to actually rotate the roller backwards almost 20° before releasing. You can also add some voids to the forward hand grip area to lighten it and make it easier to steady while aiming.

@jonathanstout2467

3 жыл бұрын

yeah the math on the roller is almost right here. that's gonna cause a hair trigger, and not enough torque from the axis of the roller block to keep it locked in the ready position. if you want a smooth shooting roller block and sear, you will have to use these points, but also will have to fiddle with it, and you'll want a rounded tip of the sear, at an acute angle, set back by about 2-5 degrees to adjust for poundage. but it also depends on weather you use horn, or steel, or Bronze for the roller block. every material has different tolerances, and different wear rates.

@jllaine

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanstout2467 well a 3-5° back angle will actually lock the trigger and roller nicely without the risk of it releasing on its own like the one on forged in fire did.

@jonathanstout2467

3 жыл бұрын

@@jllaine never seen the episode, but I'm just going off of what has worked for me in the past. Math in engineering, gets finicky when you put it into practice. Sometimes there are things we forget to account for, and trial and error are better teachers than models, and proofs. But I don't know your degree of engineering ability, or knowledge, so I will take your word for it.

Another way to build a crossbow trigger is to cut a small notch into the top of the crossbow where the trigger is. That notch is across the stock of the crossbow. The trigger has a flat plate on the back of it that raises the string out of the notch and allows it to fire.

I also build a crossbow and I am 13 and I had the exact same launch mechanism

First try. Long way to go. You could devise a much simpler trigger system. The one you're using works a lot better with steel mechanisims. But there are other ways. I have made one this winter with a snowmobile leaf spring; it's so powerful I have to use a cocking rope! I'm FULLY satisfied with the result.

Turn trigger park to the stock. Then make it longer and you will have more leverage on the rolling block. Les trigger pressure

You know what Kramer? Of all the bowyers on this U tube you're the most interesting one. Can't say that I care for all your builds but you sure someone of a unique enthusiasm. Good build, awesome work, great video!

You can make the trigger easier to pull, by being very particular about the shape of the trigger, and where you place the center-of-rotation of the trigger. It's easy to design the trigger in a way that it has to counter-rotate the crossbow nut, thereby "drawing" the bow just a bit extra, but you want to avoid that. Try to find a trigger design that applies *all* trigger movement straight down, to avoid rotating the nut at all during the trigger pull.

@themodernarmbruster

3 жыл бұрын

Bang on. The easiest way to do this is having the trigger axle exactly in the same horizontal plane as the notch in the nut.

I just did this last summer too! so much fun! love what you do man, keep it up.

If you cut your stock so the shoulder part is lower than the receiver (where trigger is housed), it’s easier on your neck to get a sight picture. Additionally, the wide arrow track on your test build puts friction on a large portion of your string. Try to make it more narrow on your sexy one. This can be done by putting in an inlay of fiberglass, plexiglass, aluminum, etc., so that it’s slightly higher than the stock (1/16”-1/8”). If you notch the center of the track deep enough (table saw), you can put one feather/fletching in the notch. This lets you look right over the top of the arrow. I know you’ve said you don’t use sights, but they come in handy on a crossbow. The trick is to make the front sight adjustable (bow pin sights work well). I enjoy all your builds very much.

Cool build

Beautiful music for the build on the body. Nice vidjéo once again sir!!!

Wow this thing is big! Imagine someone pulling this thing on you vs the average handgun, this would actually be a lot scarier!

good start.

That's pretty cool for your first try. I'd like to see you carve a stock from a solid piece of wood, and use Steel for the Limbs or prod. I can send you links or even diagrams if you want. I know you have the skill to tiller steel, its the same as wood, just a lot slower, and you will have to heat treat, and temper a steel prod, but there are so many videos on how to do that, I don't think I would need to help with that, but I can if you want. I have been a hobby blade/weapon smith for 27 years. I enjoy your videos, because they remind me of me about 18 to 20 years ago, just trying stuff to learn. it's awesome. keep it up, I'll admit, you have become a better boyer, than I ever was.

Cool build. Love crossbows. I had an idea for you. When you were shooting outside, I noticed how far apart your thumb and fingers are spread in order to pull the trigger. Your hand is almost completely open. If your design allows, you could shape and contour the stock, just in front of the cheek rest/under your thumb and where your palm sits, in order to have a closer/tighter grip from the firing position. Even without adjusting the trigger mechanics, it should lower the perceived pressure needed to release it, as well as make the trigger pull smoother due to a more controlled muscle movement, since your grip is much tighter. Just my thoughts. Thanks for sharing the build!!!!

Thanks kramer ammons thanks to ur helpful vids on board bow making i made my first red oak board bow with a arow rest it terns out i can pretty much shoot just as good as i do with my compound bow wich im good and accurate thanks so much Kramer ammons u the best

Amzing vídeos!!!

Very good

I started on crossbows and then switched to bows later. I like to use a roughly a 60 pound prod so it can be loaded without aids. To compensate for low power in the prod I give the assembly nearly twice the power stroke of a commercial crossbow which is roughly 13 inches. The long power stroke makes the prod a real challenge to build. Probably the thing that will trip most people up is the Trigger assembly. If you have the line of force above the center of the Trigger's rotation you create a Trigger that requires a lot of force to pull thus fire the crossbow. I borrowed Joerg's, Slingshot Channel, one piece Trigger design. It's a supper trigger in that the line of force lines up with the center of the Triggers rotation.

Very Clever!!!!

hey, i made a crossbow with that type of trigger and found that putting a safety on the roller is a good way to prevent the string from chopping your fingers in a failed loading, also a longer trigger gives you a better leverage for a easier release

I love the fact that you didn't ruin the marvelous bow during the build! And i like your faceprotection you wore at the very first testshot! Better be safe than sorry. ;-) Maybe I've got an idea for the triggersystem: I think if you rise the lower angle of the spinning part from 90 degrees to maybe 92 degrees (just rasp it bigger and try it out contineously), you wouldn't need to push it upwards with the lower part of the trigger. (-OR: shorten it! haha) Changing the angle of the lower part (the actual) trigger surely makes it easier to pull it, but I'm affrait this makes holding the crossbow during aiming less comfortable. Really intresting to see how much easier it seems to shoot a crossbow compared to a good old fashioned bow. And once again, like always: a great video, very entertaining to watch.

Kramer- I don't think this wood will hold. Sometimes it hurts to be right. Great video!

Have you seen the Legolini?

Badhiya bhai 🤓👍

It's called sear engagement, the same is on a firearm the smaller your sear the lighter your trigger but the it won't be as safe.

Nice crossbow

I am your biggest fan really

I'd love to see you try and make a Penobscot bow.

Why not antler or bone for the nut (not sure if that's the right term) or delarin

Hey that's me! I appreciate the shout out dude and all the content, products and positivity you put out!

You should try making a slingshot ... that would be sick

Will it bow "5 gallon paint sticks"?????

How do I buy a bow + arrows from you? (UK) they aren't on the website so just wondering

Early crossbows looked like this, long draw length, less draw weight. Steel medieval crossbows are overated, too inefficient due to prod weight, but gets all the historical attention.

@danielkrogh9748

3 жыл бұрын

not to mention that what most people are thinking of when they think of medieval crossbows are war bows but they also used crossbows with a much weaker draw weight for hunting

@schlossgespenst1930

3 жыл бұрын

stupidly inefficient, but nearly 1000lbs steel-limbs were probably the only way they could get the power of a 150lbs Bow on a crossbow at the time. but true that you don't see much of other historical crossbows aside from channels like yours, which is kinda sad. Mostly it's either medieval or modern.

@jayytee8062

3 жыл бұрын

@@schlossgespenst1930 Thats why they had a short power stroke. Plus a crossbow has a friction factor to overcome unlike a true bow.

@schlossgespenst1930

3 жыл бұрын

@@jayytee8062 ye, the shorter the powerstroke, the smaller the chance, that you get some big steel slabs flying at you with terrifying strength

@jayytee8062

3 жыл бұрын

@@schlossgespenst1930 Not entirely true because of the short power stroke the poundage is much higher on a crossbow as compared to a normal bow

Anyone can tell me how oak ridge bows are? I m referring specifically to oak ridge dymond 62",thanks

You should team up with Joerg Sprave

Awesomeness!! Next up, Balista, or scorpion.... (jus' saying...) Heads up Kramer - a buddy of mine at school back in England made a crossbow for "shop" (or design and technology) using an old air rifle stock & the leaf off a Mini Clubman wishbone suspension. He used a Bike brake cable for wire, and was upset when the school confiscated his creation. (this was in the 70s)...... Mind you, he had just done a demo and shot a 12" bolt through a 14" oak tree..... *ahem*

for a solid way to build a crossbow Id check out tod cutlers channel he's super skilled & i think you'd like it!

I wonder if taking advantage of the wrist strap, trigger style string releases would be useful. I know the setup is different, since the string release is attached before being drawn. But the end result might be worthwhile. From there, it might be worth looking further into a bracing structure that allows you to "shoulder" a conventional bow AND use the wrist strap release mechanism, while still gaining the crossbow benefit of holding tension mechanically. Where, exactly, does it cease being a conventional bow and become a crossbow? I dare you to blur that line, designing a "conventional" bow system that gives as many of the benefits of a crossbow as possible.

I make one mini crossbow. I have video in my profile, but i more prefer sling than bow or crossbow. 😂

You just made your certification as a plausible survivor for a zombie apocalypse go from a A+ to an S+, congratulations, good sir.

You should check out the cupid archery $60 bow on Amazon I just got mine a couple days ago and love it I bought the 30lb draw version

Looks like a Chinese or early Crusader Crossbow.

Are you from Canada

Try it with the 100 lb bow

147k is a lot of subs man 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐

The sear is too deep, which is why the string pulls back just a bit before release. also the rolling block is a bit too big. You have two types of crossbow mixed together here. You are using a rolling block like a medieval crossbow, and a trigger release like a modern crossbow. A rolling block (medieval) should use a lever trigger, and a finger trigger crossbow, should use a channel and lift system. but heck you are doing great with what you know. awesome work dude.

What’s the dps on this thing.

On your next build I probably can get you a peace of horn

I mean.. you got about 150K subs lol

Nice job ^^

great video dude, I'm surprised you haven't made a crossbrow before, good start i'm looking forward to the next one

I had vetter luck making a longer weaker bow lim. I tyried making a shorter one with more poundge but didn't tiller proper and it exploded, was only bending in middle.

Hey Kramer, would you say a bow you’ve made yourself performs better than ones you buy?

Beatifull

Niceeee

Nice👍

1) your really nice wood bow won't like being drawn for long periods of time. use a thin leaf spring or fiberglass or at least a fiberglass backed wood bow. 2) for reference look at tod's workshop for historical stuff or joergsprave for German plywood insanity. he also has a great one piece trigger design. in general keep leverage in mind. 3) consider using a simple compound system. no cams, just simple plastic pulleys between bow limbs and central body. this should improve efficiency, can help flattening the draw weight curve and potentially make unconventional limbs viable ( i am working on a bow using trampoline springs inspired by a German channel called zunder) hope to see where this goes... ps: using threaded rods as axis pin in wood gave me cancer. at least use a wooden dowel or steel rod.

You would make the trigger easier to pull if you nake it into a lever that goes underneath the stock. Take a look at medieval bows. As you surmised already 😁 Otherwise, well done

Try making a bow out of skate boards

Why don’t you turn your pencil bow into a pencil crossbow?

Please start selling bows. Love the channel.

@abdul-qadirjabaar6721

3 жыл бұрын

He used to sell staves for us to finish, but it looks like it's discontinued like the wallets

Nothing wrong with learning something new.

Been shooting crossbows since 1986. One trigger design you many want to experiment with is a trigger lever that pulls down from the top of the bow. Backyard bowyer on youtube came up with a design that used a clothes line clip. One of the main ways to convey power to the arrow is the length of the power stroke. It is better to shoot a lighter poundage bow with a 16 inch power stroke, than a really stiff bow that only pulls 12 inches. Longer power stroke requires a longer bow, and makes setup more bulky, but worth it for less cocking effort and longer power stroke. Arrows will fly better once you figure out spine if there is only a few inches of arrow sticking out past the shooting rail. A lot of arrow tip sticking out can cause the arrow to over flex and whip, effecting accuracy. Cool that it worked for you. All weaponry is equally awesome.

Someone beat me to telling you about Joerg and Todd. Todd's explanation of crossbow triggers is awesome.

@darrinrebagliati5365

3 жыл бұрын

And Joerg has come up w some awesome stuff built out of plywood.

Now you just need to make it repeating.

@ethansantiny9579

3 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a job for joerg

thinner wood on the outside would make it a lot lighter

Awesome!

7$ diy easy bow )stick + string = stick bow t is a bow without much It's a simple bow.

Ohhhhh can we get a slo-mo archers paradox of your crossbow series!!!? Please! Please!... Please?

Look at an ar15 trigger group, you can maybe use that design and slightly modify it for your crossbow.

Your attitude is the best keep it up

_Shatterproof Crossbow_ *Narrow Hallway* "I have met my match."

Great experiment 👍 Next time try a different shooting position. Change your knees. Right on the ground, your left elbow on your left knee. More stable.

I don't know much about bows. But I do know rifles. The average length of pull, the distance from the wrist or grip on a buttstock to the end of the buttstock is 13 1/2 inches. Yours looks a little short. A good way to measure what length of pull fits you is to hold the stock in your hand at the point where you would hold it while shooting, then lay it along your forearm. It should reach the inside of your elbow. Correct stock length will allow you to get a good cheek weld for better accuracy and be more comfortable while shooting. I know this is a prototype, your first one. Just offering advice if you decide to do a future build. Google "sear engagement and trigger pull". There are a lot of articles written on how triggers work and maybe you can adapt some of that info for your next crossbow. Great work man. Keep it up and you may end up with a damn fine crossbow.

Clicked so fast

you lost weight your looking very young and shiny ...lol not to sound weird great vid .. living the dream :)

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR SO LONG!!!

I clicked on this video so fast

Cool project look forward to see v2

That looks so cool! I can't wait to see the non-prototype version.

💪🏼💪🏼👍🏻

Mick grewcock made a crossbow design quite similar to this. Check it out!

I love this! If only it were made out of a sword..... haha

Kramer check this guy out on youtube, JoergSprave he does somethings you might like. Cool crossbow I always enjoy your channel.

Now that you know crossbow triggers, you know 80% of how an AR-15 trigger functions.

awesome! can't wait to see your next edition, good motivation to get mine finished!

Well done on a great video Kramer! I'm looking forward to more crossbow builds!!!!!👌 You need to carve a Flight Groove in the Tiller/Stock for the arrow/bolt to sit into and to run along - you won't need to use standard Archery Arrow Nocks. Another tip is to lower the position of the Prod/Bow and have it slightly angled forward to minimise some of the String Drag. A small Coil Spring is useful for resetting the trigger which will allow for a smaller contact surface for the Sear which will lighten the Trigger Pull.👍

Love the video your so inspirational

Great job it’s working very well. Very cool my friend. 👍🏼👍🏼