This great. Very well done. Thanks for sharing. I've been wanting to re-work my neck joints and this is great inspiration for moving forward. Cheers!

@zachlefebvre4825

2 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it’s inspiring you to try new things!!

Awesome work

@redtreecollectiveguitars

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Brian! :)

This is the best. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

@zachlefebvre4825

2 жыл бұрын

You’re welcome Darren! Hope you find it useful!

Brilliant, thank you.

@redtreecollectiveguitars

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome! :) -Zach

Great information and great explanation of everything you're doing. Thanks for bringing us along.

@zachlefebvre4825

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! It’s my pleasure. :)

Absolutely fantastic - thanks a million for taking the time to make this highly informative video👍👍

@redtreecollectiveguitars

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the encouragement. It is great to know that the effort is appreciated.

Great video! Thank you.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! You’re welcome. :)

Thank you Zach. Great video. Greetings from Argentina.

@zachlefebvre4825

2 жыл бұрын

Hello from Canada! Glad you liked the video! :)

Superb!! This video is so informative and really helps with something I was curious about for ages! Thank you!!

@zachlefebvre4825

2 жыл бұрын

Great!! Happy to help! :)

Nice work Braddah but wear a mask! I’m not cracking on you or trying to purposely belittle you….I’m sincere in saying to mask up because I know too many people that are suffering with some lung issue with their health because of breathing saw dust, shell dust(from grinding sea shells), etc. Mahalo nui loa for sharing your time and skill with us. Aloha….

@zachlefebvre4825

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your concern - we usually do wear masks in addition to our shop dust collection, but it’s not ideal for videos.

Great video! I would love to see how you make the heel block! For grain orientation and type of wood and everything 😊

@treehouseguitars

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! Good idea for a video - I’ll add it to my list of topics to cover in future videos! :)

@dantahoua

7 ай бұрын

@@treehouseguitars that would be great. My next build will be exactly a bolt on acoustic the same way you did it in the video. :)

@treehouseguitars

7 ай бұрын

Awesome!! It’s certainly a great neck joint, in my opinion! :)

It drew my interest.. however, neck extensions aren't hard to un glue ... Also , if you think about it , that glue isn't doing much other than dropping the the extension out of the way of the business frets . A person could use ans easy to separate glue like fish glue and not spread it over the whole extension. A hot palette knife could separate it with ease.and you could do it so the knife would slide under the extension easily.. you wouldn't need roo much heat , nor much chance of scuffing the top, not much glue to remove..and the making of the joint would be easy peazy.. I think I'm trying that on the next mortise and Tenon Nick I reset. Thanks for posting.. while I probably won't be copying that idea , you sure gave me a good one to try out.

@redtreecollectiveguitars

Жыл бұрын

Sure, that’s another way to do it and would work just fine. In fact, that’s what I used to do for about the first 7 or 8 years of my career, bolted through the heel block and glued fingerboard extension. I just really like the serviceability of a fully bolt on neck joint as well as the stability of the frame in the upper bout when it’s done this way. Taking apart a glued fingerboard extension is not fun and it is pretty tricky not to damage the finish anywhere so it often requires several more hours of work for a technician if the neck needs to be removed. With all that being said, this is just one of many many ways to attach a neck on. It’s not necessarily better or worse, just different. :)

Making a fully bolt-on neck joint - Part 1: assolutamente fantastico l'attrezzo utilizzato per l'esecuzione dei fori per la giunzione dei due pezzi (Corpo-manico). Dove posso comprare questo attrezzo? grazie

@redtreecollectiveguitars

3 ай бұрын

Thanks! So far it is not available anywhere - I may get some made to sell though. Keep an eye on my TreeHouse Guitars instagram/Facebook page. :)

Would you show that neck angle jig and the bridge height board jig in more detail? I love this!

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Great idea! In fact, you’ve given me an idea to start a playlist of “simple jigs in detail”. 😏

@johnpeters211

8 ай бұрын

LOL, just watched this for the first time and I immediately thought, "well that jig is much easier than how I was setting neck angle, I'm going to make one". I assume that the bridge end is about 3mm taller than the nut and body joint locations.

hey zach i see there are four holes on the tennon of the jig so did your cousin make three separate parts to make up the jig . the tennon ,the mortised part and the top part for the 3/8s dowel .just trying to reverse engineer it for people who don't have access to a machinist i've tried three of them there all to busy to mess with a small project like that .so trying to make it up myself thanks so much for sharing this .this is really golden.and a leap forward

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

Hey Mark, yes I believe you’re right. It was made in 3 parts then bolted together.

Hi Zach, thx for all the help via comments on this joint. I routed the mortise and tenon and the neck is out of alignment by maybe 1/64” over 12”. Would you rough shape the heel and then floss it to perfection and then do the extension pocket, or am I close enough that I can do the extension now and floss the perfect fit later? I’m wondering if it has to be bang on at this point or just really close. Thx!

@treehouseguitars

7 ай бұрын

Yeah I’ve had to do what you mentioned a few times now. I rough shape the heel then hollow out some of the wood between the edges of the heel and the tenon so flossing works more effectively, then put the two bolts in loosely and floss. Tightening the bolts every now and then to check your alignment. Once it’s bang on then move on to routing for the extension pocket. 👍🏼

@troywoodyard-qb1qk

7 ай бұрын

Perfect, thx!

@treehouseguitars

7 ай бұрын

No problem! :)

Great approach for getting this joint spot on correct ! I retired many years ago but keep active repairing and building guitars. At the moment I'm building an OM-21 style and as I live in Australia, I'm using Victorian Ash which is a eucalyptus hardwood for the neck. Could you tell me about the guide you're using to check the fit of the neck to the body and is there a radius in the top or is it flat ?

@zachlefebvre4825

3 күн бұрын

Thanks! Cool, that’ll be a fun project :) The jig I’m checking the neck angle with basically just has 3 protrusions, one at the bridge location, one at the neck joint and the other (which sticks out about 2mm extra) is at the nut. It helps me dial in the setback of my neck so that my neck projects to the right height at the saddle. Alignment side to side is eyeballed with a centre line on the neck and top. Does that answer your question?

@andrewdarnley4608

3 күн бұрын

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thanks Zach, all new to me as I've be using a more cumbersome approach with a straight edge and measuring gaps etc. Is there a source where I could find a plan on how to build your alignment/reference jig ?

@zachlefebvre4825

Күн бұрын

⁠@@andrewdarnley4608- I don’t know of any plans, but I’ve made a few of these jigs by 1) jointing one edge of a thin board 2) gluing equal sized “nubs” where the nut, neck joint, and saddle go 3) adding a shim to the “nut nub” which is the thickness I want the setback to be.

hey Zach i noticed your sides are laminated what's your tonal thoughts on that ooop's another vid love it where's that tip jar so i can contribute for the gleaning info I'm getting

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

Haha, thanks, I’m glad you’re enjoying the videos! I don’t generally laminate my sides, although I think laminating two or three thin layers together would work well. I find adding too much mass to the sides affects the bass response and clarity in a way that I don’t particularly like (with my building style anyways). This guitar has a laminated back which was for a few reasons. Honduras Rosewood is so dense it sinks in water so I wanted to take up some of the back’s thickness with a light weight wood to keep it more active. Also the back is actually made of 6 pieces so a second layer helps to reinforce all those joints.

Great video, I've always stayed away from bolt on neck joints simply because the fretboard is still glued, but this seems to be the answer. ps Is that a coffin guitar on the wall?

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Thanks :) Yeah, I don’t think a bolt on neck joint makes much sense if it’s still partially glued on… The “coffin guitar” is a jig I built to simulate strings on a guitar with a floating bridge. Basically the body, without a neck, sits under the strings and I can find the strings to pitch and adjust break angle over the bridge and get a sense of the sound before a lot of the work is done on the rest of the guitar. It has come in pretty handy!

Taylor's system idea. But no shim to helping the neck in the right position if you have to compensating the action.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Very similar, yes, theirs is a brilliant neck joint design in my opinion. I’m sure they weren’t the first to come up with the idea. If you need shims to get the right amount of action then there are bigger issues - and these are all avoided with maintaining correct neck angle throughout this process.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

With that being said, wedge-shaped shims are a good way to correct the neck angle if your entire fingerboard sits in a pocket on the top.

@andros1961

Жыл бұрын

@@treehouseguitars in my opinion the shim system is a clever idea. Moreover the thickness increases the angle of minimum quantity. And the best thing is that in most cases you are not going to modify the neck anyway.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

@@andros1961 - It’s definitely super user-friendly, which was an smart move on Taylor’s part. Any form of bolt on neck makes future modifications/repairs easy and inexpensive really. Theirs happens to be pretty foolproof which is great if they end up in the hands of guitar techs with little to no experience working on them.

The neck block 'ledge' or 'extension' that gets routed out... is that glued on to the 'normal' bit of neck block at a slight angle to account for the radius of the top? Or is it glued on at 90 degrees and left proud of the sides and then sanded down to the radius? Does that make sense?

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, makes sense! It’s glued on at 90 degrees then sanded down. The top radius would make it ever-so-slightly inconsistent in thickness, but not anything that would throw anything off.

@LeddingtonGuitars

Жыл бұрын

@@treehouseguitars Nice thanks... whats your top radius?

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

@@LeddingtonGuitars - Well it’s actually sort of complicated. My rim is sanded flat then angled back slightly from the heel block to the waist (to get the fingerboard projecting a bit higher at the saddle). My bracing is designed so that once the guitar is strung up the radius is about 28’.

The part I’m fuzzy on is the neck block extension support being glued to the upper transverse brace. I’ve always heard that end grain to long grain glue joints will fail, and also how do you insure a precise fit between the straightedge routed extension block and the UTB. I’m struggling to understand how you mark the exact distance between the oversized top to the UTB. It seams measuring and a pencil line wouldn’t get you exact enough for a glue joint. Or do you route the straightedge, then flush the UTB against it, then mark your grace locations on the side? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I’ve really enjoyed your channel!

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Hey Troy :) This was one of my concerns the first time I did this joint, but I was glad to see that it was fairly easy to get the end of the block lined up perfectly with the UTB. If your top is pinned into mold you can accurately mark a line at each end of the UTB and use a straightedge to mark it on the block. Then sneak up on it with several router passes until the UTB snuggly slides down next to the block. One of the main reasons why end grain glue joints fail is because the glue quickly absorbs into the end grain leaving very little in the glue joint. I should have maybe mentioned this in the video, but I “prime” the end grain of the block extension with a thin layer of glue - let it soak in and dry, lightly sand then proceed to glue the parts together (that goes for any end grain joint). You might have noticed that I rout slightly into the UTB when routing the neck/body pocket. This basically makes the end-grain glue joint less important since the neck anchors into the UTB. I hope that answers your questions! -Zach

@troywoodyard-qb1qk

Жыл бұрын

Perfect. Thx a lot for the reply… I have built 2 guitars at this point, but am trying to refine my processes to make the process more repeatable and enjoyable.

@troywoodyard-qb1qk

Жыл бұрын

I’ve been thinking about this. I’ve never seen anyone else pin it to the mold but it seems like a good idea… so would you line it up with no braces and get the pin holes aligned so that once it is braced you already have the pins figured out? It seems like if you had the UTB already glued on, the fretboard support would not allow you to accurately mark the pins… have I deduced the order of operations correctly? Thanks so much for your generosity with the information! I don’t know how people learned things before KZread :)

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

@@troywoodyard-qb1qk - That’s right. The pin holes are drilled into the tops (relative to the centre line) as soon as it has been joined. That way I can pin it in place in the mold and trace the outline as well as mark all of my brace locations in relation to where the pins are. The pins are basically locators for where the top (and back) should be at every step of the process.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

@@troywoodyard-qb1qk - my pleasure, by the way. I like helping budding luthiers speed up their learning curve. :)

Hey Zack......I am absolutely going to go with this method of neck joint, and I wonder if you can help me out with a couple things? Did you design the jigs for drilling the body holes for the bolts? If so, is that something you would share the plans with? Also....the jig you used for machine heads....I have never seen that before. Is that your design?

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Hey Len! Yes I did design the jig for drilling all the holes, I had my cousin machine it for me. I could give you some more details of the jig although the measurements don’t matter a whole lot, in fact it may make more sense to adapt it to your design. If you have a wider heel than me you might want a wider tenon or if you body depths are quite a bit different the bolt spacing should be changed. In my case as long as the 3/8” aluminum rod goes down the centre of the heel parallel to the the tenon (which will also be perpendicular to the bolt holes), and the bolt holes are spaced as such so that the bolt heads don’t interfere with anything internally then it’s good. Another important strength consideration, I believe, is for the tenon to be a fair amount wider than the 3/8” rod, otherwise the rod would cause a pretty weak spot in the neck where the wood between the rod and the body could come apart from the rest of the neck. Hopefully all that made sense. If you have any questions don’t be afraid to ask for clarification! The jig for drilling the machine head holes was my design and I’d like to say it was my idea, but I can’t imagine I’m the first person to have done something like it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@len6408

Жыл бұрын

@@treehouseguitars Thanks for that Zack........I see you are in Ontario, another proud Canadian. I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. I have been studying your jigs, and method, and I am fascinated by them. I already have most of the jigs, etc.... that I need to forge ahead, but I absolutely want to borrow some of your ideas. I am a new builder. I retired from a great career almost three years ago, and guitar building has become my passion, even though I am only on guitar number four at this time. I hope to dig in deep in the coming years, and produce wonderful sounding and playing instruments. Thank you for your inspiration.

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

@@len6408 - Aw thanks Len! Being told that I’ve inspired someone is a high compliment. If you have any questions at any point in time I love helping new builders out. And if it does interest you I teach courses from time to time where a few students build a guitar alongside of me and we delve into the nitty gritty of… everything basically. If you do want to be kept in the loop for those you can fill out the form on my website then I’ll have all your contact info. Alternatively I’m happy to just keep answering questions. :)

didn't see the link for the jig and where's your tip jar would love to donate for the info you are sharing

@redtreecollectiveguitars

Жыл бұрын

Oops, I must have missed it in the video. Here it is: kzread.info/dash/bejne/p6xto5WnZsTLabA.html I've thought about starting a patreon page... maybe I should revisit the idea... 🤔

How wide is your tenon - It looks about 20 mm or so - Is this correct ? - I've made a template which is about 24 mm wide and I'm a bit worried it might be too wide - I'm planning to have a wide heel so its not an issue in that respect but is there any other reason why 24mm or an inch wide tenon could be problematic ? Thanks - I appreciate schooling newbs might be a bit boring

@redtreecollectiveguitars

3 ай бұрын

I’m pretty sure my tenons are 3/4” wide, but that’s mainly because my heels are quite narrow. With a 3/8” rod down the heel anchoring the neck that technically only leaves 3/16” of continuous grain on either side of the rod… it’s a bit hard to explain, but if my tenon was 3/8” wide and my rod down the heel is 3/8” wide, then my neck could very easily break away leaving the bolt and tenon behind. Does that make sense? Anyway, a wider tenon would actually be better - the wider you can make it within your heel the better.

@hereasafanofallsorts5164

3 ай бұрын

Hi - thanks for the detailed reply - I really appreciate it - that does make perfect sense. I mocked one up out of the template I have and it was fine. I have to say though - you make it look easy and it definately isnt @@redtreecollectiveguitars

@redtreecollectiveguitars

3 ай бұрын

@@hereasafanofallsorts5164 You're welcome :) Haha, sorry! I suppose I've made a number of jigs this way now so it has become easier for me. -Zach

Hi! Regards from Argentina. Thanks a lot for sharing those videos. A question... What is the scale of that guitar? Thanks in advance

@zachlefebvre4825

Ай бұрын

Hello!! 👋🏻 You’re welcome :) This guitar was my standard scale length, 64.5cm.

@msinger01

Ай бұрын

@@zachlefebvre4825 Thanks

@zachlefebvre4825

Ай бұрын

@@msinger01- no problem at all! :)

zach who or did you make the aluminium drill jig for the that slips in the body and where can a guy purchase one that is a gold nugget

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

Hey Mark! I had a relative (machinist) make it for me. But I believe Elevate Lutherie makes one similar now. If you scroll through our past videos I did one talking about this specific jig. You may find it useful. :)

I think that rather than cut the bolts off I would drill the holes in the heel deeper and let them thread right through the rod.

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

If your heel is deep enough to do that it would work well to do that, yeah. In my case I don’t have much more room past the rod so I can’t.

Why not use a steel rod instead of the aluminum one in the heel for more strength and less chance of threads getting stripped?

@redtreecollectiveguitars

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you could do that for sure. I like aluminum for its low mass as well as the fact that if you accidentally hit it with a router bit it's not going to destroy anything.

How did you make the sides? I’ve seen laminated sides before, but yours have holes in them. What is that?

@zachlefebvre4825

2 ай бұрын

Do you mean the soundport on the upper bout, bass side? It’s basically just a small port for sound to go towards the player. It’s reinforced on the inside, but the rest of the sides are single-ply, standard solid wood guitar sides.

@thomastedder

2 ай бұрын

At 4:45 in the video the sides don’t look single ply. I’ve never seen anything like that before. It looks really thick, but hollow.

Is the top arched at the bridge ?

@treehouseguitars

Жыл бұрын

Umm, I’m not sure what you mean. I brace my guitars so they will be arched fairly consistently AFTER the string tension is applied, so yes, but it’s more complicated than just arching the top in this case. If you simplify it by making your top an even radius then you can get your fingerboard projection aiming slightly higher. I’m assuming that’s why you were asking?

Sir, where I can purchase the hole jig?

@zachlefebvre4825

9 ай бұрын

Hi, unfortunately I had this one custom made, but you could do the same. As long as the width matches your mortise/tenon size then the rest should be custom tailored to your guitar dimensions (like how deep your bodies are).

so is your neck extension block a 1 1/4'' thick

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

The extension block that’s glued to the underside of the fingerboard tongue is only 12mm thick, but the heel block itself ends up being around 32mm thick in the centre.

Hi Zach...Will your cousin be willing to make me the tool? I know it would be expensive but I like your version better than the Elevate.

@zachlefebvre4825

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately not, I’ve asked him a couple times. I agree, I think this design makes more sense. Are you able to find a local machinists? It’s not an overly complicated jig to make for a machinist.

No no. The only metal thing in a guitar shoul be, strings and tuners, not screws for the neck in any way. So practise to make a real dovetail, is recomended and trow them screws away. If You dont have the skill to do a dovetail in the usual manner, I will recomend to do other things in the future.

@zachlefebvre4825

6 ай бұрын

There are many ways to make a great guitar - this is one of them. I used to do a dovetail neck joint and got quite good and efficient at it, but it has its flaws. It does not support the upper bout of the guitar very well so the guitar’s geometry changes much more over time than with a neck joint like this. Also once the geometry changes, it is a time-intensive and expensive job to readjust the neck angle to correct the changes in geometry. I am certainly not against dovetail neck joints, but after using several neck joint methods, I much prefer this type of neck joint for many reasons - and I believe it is much more difficult to execute than a simple dovetail. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@redtreecollectiveguitars

6 ай бұрын

So @tribestribes2555 are you suggesting we should leave the neck to it's own devices because it's metal and not a string or tuner?

@lsard2823

3 ай бұрын

Clown, you should be legally obligated to finish your statement with a great big DUHU.