I've been a patron of Mr. C's for the past two years. Have collected all the parts to build half a dozen of his projects but the making of the circuit boards has been the one show-stopper for me. However, I just bought a used laminator so maybe that will finally allow me to etch some boards. As you say, the process isn't difficult, but getting the tools together without spending a fortune on them can be. Thank you for this clear rundown of the process.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words.

@FailedSquare

3 жыл бұрын

This is a good video with lots of valuable info. You could also check out BigClivedotcom on youtube. He made a video outlining his etching process. Its more or less identical up to the actual etching part. He uses some bags with clips to contain the etchant and board. As the author of this video explains, Ferric Chloride is just awful and stains everything it touches. I remember doing this as a teenager using an iron and a very specific glossy inkjet paper. I had yellow fingers for near a month afterwards. WEAR GLOVES haha.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

@@FailedSquare Hello and thank you - I’m pleased you found it informative👍🏻 The ol’ ferric chloride is indeed nasty - I think only polyurethane glue is its equal for deep staining fingers.

@JamesHalfHorse

2 жыл бұрын

Been the same for me. I am a bit surprised there is not some sort of diy board maker/printer.

Thank you have been protists and testing so much I can see! Laser printer was wonderful thing!

Thank you for sharing your experience. Gives me confidence to invest in an inexpensive laminator because a clothes iron gives me inconsistent results.

FYI: Paper-wise whatever you decide to use make sure it's a "Laser" grade paper, like the one shown in the video. While you can put most any "Laser" grade paper products into an Ink Jet printer and it will work fine, the opposite is not true; some "Ink Jet" specialty papers can wreck the fuser in a laser printer which is not a cheap mistake to make.

It was great thing I learnt. Thank you for that.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Your most welcome, Ali

I've always wanted to make Mr Cs Cap tester. I'll subscribe to Mr Carlsons Patreon and have a go. Thanks for the 'How to'.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your feedback Arun! Mr C is worth every penny and the only difficulty I had making the tester was the tiny surface mounted components - I bought some cheap reading glasses two stops above my usual and BOOM, the world was a happy place once more. Happy soldering dude👍🏻

Excellent video Grant DIY PCB is something i have always wanted to try and this video has convinced me to give it a shot.

@GrantWyness

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Electro! You will have great fun, the process is very satisfying 🍻

Thank you!!!

Be aware of when you ANYTHING close to the fumes, ie the circuit boards inside the microwave, the metals get corroded away! I had a "sealed" bottle of ferric chloride stored in the same storage tote with some old circuit boards and the fumes DESTROYED them over the period of a year. The bottle had no signs of leakage! I'm a huge fan of Mr. Carlson's videos also. Thanks for the great video! Has your wife seen it?

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Ryan, yes, my wife has seen it. She likes my manipulations of what is safe or not. There is a fine line between success and disaster, and I choose learning from the informed experiment method. Thank you for you comment 🍻

You can also use glossy magazine covers as a supply of FREE paper to print the PCB artwork on.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Zeb, So I believe - haven’t tried it, but some people get results from it - I like laser paper because it delivers the goodseach and every time. Thank you kindly for your comment tho🍻

hahahahaha "Mr, C is watching" hahahahahaha!

I haven't thought of using a laminator. Thanks! I'm used to seeing the process where the print is laser printed on to a glossy page pulled from a magazine, then transferred with a clothes iron. The laminator sounds like the better choice for 2 sided boards.

@GrantWyness

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Tim, the laminator is excellent for double sided boards 🍻

tip: a lot of photo paper and glossy magazine paper has calcium carbonate in it; if you put the board in an acidic solution, you don't have to wait for the paper to soak in water; it decomposes and you get a much better result, with very little residue; i use a cleaning product based on 10% clorhidric acid and 7% sulphuric acid;

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Stefan, that is an interesting suggestion, one for the lab after a few of these🍹😁💥

In my experience, the more effort you put into the process the more likely it is to fail. Somehow my best PCBs came from a few swipes of sandpaper, 3 to 4 passes through laminator and in some occasions I forgot about them sitting in etching bath.

Part of the hobby for me is creating my own boards. It doesn't matter how cheap they are from sources. I by far prefer milling boards though, all I need is 1 small CNC engraver. No printer, no paper, no laminator, and no chemicals. All I have for consumables are the engraving bits. I can make many boards with a couple $1 bits and the machine drills the holes for me. I even enjoyed the process of learning how to cut a board with proper feeds and speeds thru experimentation and I got got learn what software works best for me personally. Additional bonus, I got a machine that I learned how to modify the firmware for the controller board after I added a new controller. So many facets of the hobby just because I wanted something a bit different and wanted to mill my own PCBs. This all started because I started teaching myself electronics =)

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Ian, this sounds like time well spent to me. I think I might invest in one myself at some stage; so much fun to be had. All the best

@reedreamer9518

Жыл бұрын

What software do you design your circuit boards with and how do you convert it to a format to drive the CNC engraver. Also, how much did you spend on an engraver - which one works for you?

@ianide2480

Жыл бұрын

@@reedreamer9518 any software that can output a Gerber file will work. The software that I use to generate g-code for the engraver is CopperCAM and it imports Gerber files directly. But I use Diptrace for designing a board.

what wattage resistors did you use for the leakage tester?

Remember the first board I etched I put board and solution in a aluminum foil pan. After a while it started bubbling vigorously and dissolved the whole bottom lol

@GrantWyness

2 жыл бұрын

We all learn the ferric chloride dance in our own way 👨🏻‍🍳

JLCPCB for the win, threw away all my PCB at home materials years ago once I found how cheap you could get professional PCB's made in China. I don't miss handling the chemicals one bit.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

A fine plan indeed!

@shrievy

3 жыл бұрын

One option for sure. If you watched Mr. Carlsons lab on making boards you can make a pcb in 20 min. and not have to wait days for the board. Once you check your prototype for stray capacitance and possible other layout flaws and what not then order your large amount.

@xConundrumx

3 жыл бұрын

Not an option for me, import taxes cost me 5-10 times what the pcb itself cost. So for one of boards not an option, also ... against the 'terms' Mr. C. set (if it is one of his designs). I have done it a few times for more complex stuff (custom pci cards for one) but for simple stuff it is just too much overhead.

@poormanselectronicsbench2021

2 жыл бұрын

One nice thing about the JLC boards is, the through holes are all drilled, and basically are also VIA holes as well, plated from one side to another. I ordered boards from them for a small project and I was pleased with the product. If I wasn't happy with putting something on a perfboard with solder pads, going forward I will definitely create a gerber file and order boards .

@chazits

Жыл бұрын

Oshpark

gentle agitation of the FeCl3 bath is a very effective way to speed up your etching and personally I prefer to do that rather than heat it up. cold FeCl3 is unpleasant enough. I use room temperature etchant in a one of those lockable tupperware boxes which sits on a very basic agitator of my own construction. Its just a tiny 30rpm geared 6V DC motor from ebay fitted with a small eccentric cam that raises and lowers one end of a small platform by a centimetre or so every couple of seconds, causing the etchant to gently but constantly wash over the PCB. with fresh etchant the process is done in around 6 or 7 minutes, perhaps 10 if the solution is a bit tired.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Yeme, your way is a good way - The board that I use has a thick copper coating and as such it takes at least 18 minutes with heated FeCl3. If I used standard thickness board it would be just fine at room temperature and done at the times you say. All the best and thanks for commenting 👍🏻🍻

Hi sir, would you mind try to transfer to a glossy sheet of a fancy magazine?... you are going to be surprised and save a lot of money on glossy HP paper.... also using gloves is a good idea, for many reasosns

Do you also tin the traces to prevent oxidation ?

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Ron, no I haven’t used the tin solution. It is an elegant way to maintain the beauty of the traces and expedite soldering. Varnishing is of course another way, as they do in industry. If you want to finesse your work aesthetic then I would say tinning is a must. The board in the video that looks tinned is actually silver plated...Happy New Year to you!

@hobbyelectronics6630

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness I use liquid tin. It makes the boards harder to solder, but it does offer some resistance to tarnishing. Bare copper is the best, if it is tarnish free.

Fantastic How to. Thank you very much. Where did you buy the paper if you don't mind, please? I've looked online but just couldn't spot it anywhere for some reason.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Ovi, your are welcome 👍🏻 thank you for your kind words 🔥

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Here is the link - www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0030MN85O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@ovi_4

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness Out of stock :)

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

@@ovi_4 try this - www.amazon.co.uk/HP-7MV83A-Professional-Glossy-Business/dp/B0846HTLHH It’s their latest version

@Mcandmar

3 жыл бұрын

The toner transfer paper works much better, and easier to get off too. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111793870005

I can't wait for someone to come up with an ink jet or Laser printer modification that would print directly in the PCB. I just do not have the ability to make one myself. To bad 3D printers cannot print 10 mil trace on a PCB. Nice video. Thanks

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Jim, thank you for you comments - a mod for a printer is a great idea - I have an old printer that wrote directly on CDs🤔 All the best

@sonicmistress

3 жыл бұрын

It's been done, just search on YT.

@larrybud

2 жыл бұрын

ink jet will never work. The toner is creating a physical barrier, like a piece of plastic, between the etchant and copper. A better possible solution would be a 3d printer that prints directly on the board, but I don't know enough about them to know if they can get down that fine or if the extrusion would stick.

I seem to recall Mister Carlson had an additional step, which I think was adding additional (was it silver?) plating tot he exposed copper after the etching and toner removal. I suppose that was him "dotting the Is" (as he does!) and it's not ~strictly~ necessary(?)

@GrantWyness

2 жыл бұрын

You know him well 🧘🏼‍♂️ The tin plating Mr C applies is an aesthetic, also a sensible ‘old school’ approach to board making; very fitting for his channel. The tinning liquid is relatively expensive and not necessary to finish the circuit board of your desire. Board making is not my day-job, if it were, I would tin everything to add some bling in my life🥳

A friendly advice , avoid handling such chemical in your kitchen

are you going to solder the components on as well in another video?

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Funny you ask - I am preparing today to do a follow up vid on surface mount, through hole and general soldering. Also a how to on drilling PCBs - drill skills and which colour bits to use. I don’t know if this is of interest to you? If it is you might want to (if not already) subscribe to get notified? Thank you kindly for your interest 👍🏻👍🏻

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello, and here is the video on soldering - kzread.info/dash/bejne/c2x6ztmCZ5bSd9o.html - all the best🍻

You can also heat the acid with a fish tank heater. Just leave it in the jar through the process to keep a steady temperature.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

That’s genius Johnny 👍🏻

@JohnnyUmphress

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness Thanks. I picked up a fish tank heater at a thrift store for $1. It is temperature adjustable and the element is enclosed in a glass tube so it is protected from acid damage. Also, agitation of the chemical helps to remove the coper more evenly. For that, I use a fisk tank air pump. place a polyvinyl tube from the pump into the solution and set the airflow on low to introduce a slow stream of bubbles.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyUmphress this is gold for someone who plans on making a few - thanks again Johnny 👍🏻🍻

Sadly I don't have nor can I afford a Laser Printer, Laminator, or any of the other supplies needed. I might possibly be able to scrape up enough to pay for the board if someone else made it, but just don't have the means or money to do it myself. There are several boards, not just the Mr. Carlson's Lab ones, that I would love to have made, just got to get out of financial hell before I can do anything.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Wayne, I hope your circumstances improve very soon💪🏻 take care🍻

@bsodmike

3 жыл бұрын

I've sorta gone the other way having spent over $17k on lab gear, component inventory. Taking a break from my homelab reboot (in terms of expenses) and working a few projects. That said, I totally share your sentiments re. always needing supplies. Nature of the "beast", this hobby and it gets worse during COVID when suppliers need 8-weeks to deliver goods. Eeek!

@hobbyelectronics6630

2 жыл бұрын

I have made most of his boards with a clothes iron and cheap transfer paper from China (glossy magazine pages also work). If you know someone with a laser printer your cost is almost zero. I also make my own ferric chloride. I just made some boards for another Patron, but it isn't cheap due to the time involved.

can you send me a link where do you buy in comment section?

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello, I’m not sure what you mean ‘buy’.

@diyelectronics5375

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness the paper you used to print

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Ok, here is the latest version of the paper - www.amazon.co.uk/HP-7MV83A-Professional-Glossy-Business/dp/B0846HTLHH

Aparently you had a bug in your laminator.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

😂

@rimmersbryggeri

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness I had one in my printer once. A piece of licorice that stopped the paper feeder from working.

I think you can print 9 circuit for that size on that paper so you would not wasted expensive paper.!

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

So true😁

@hobbyelectronics6630

2 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness convert the pdf into png 600dpi then you can use photoshop to modify and print all of them on one page.

Ferric chloride is just awful stuff. No matter how careful you are, you'll end up with stains all over the house, including the roof! That's why I use sodium persulfate to etch my boards. It takes more time to etch, but hey, I'm retired so I have time to spare ;) The stuff is also dirt cheap so no need to store and reuse it at all.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Including the roof😂 SP is a good call👍🏻

Gee, guess HP saw your video and promptly stopped making the paper you used (HP code CG966A) ... Will try with the 150gms version but this is getting old. I have tried 12 different kinds sofar.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Hello, this seems to be the equivalent - www.amazon.co.uk/HP-7MV83A-Professional-Glossy-Business/dp/B0846HTLHH. Try toner transfer paper, it gets good results too👍🏻

@xConundrumx

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness well good news ... for the first time ever I have managed to get my crappy laminator to do the job (95% successfully) with the lighter version of the HP paper (CG965A) ... That is one massive step forward which I never managed before with any of the others. It managed to transfer 95% to the PCB with a few spots missing (oddly enough the finer stuff like text all stuck fine, just a few breaks in thicker traces). Found out one other interesting thing reading below in the comments here about using slightly acidic solutions to help release the ink. I used a vinegar spray (typically used for descaling things like coffee makers). Tested it on a piece of printed text (no laminator or anything just a leftover scrap) and the toner came off just with that. The paper did not dissolve or anything but the toner just released. Laminator is still too low on temperature though but I picked up a small DAHLE 70401 laminator (used for laminating things the size of badges etc, 12cm wide opening) which is actually a really nice size for the small PCBs I will usually have. It surprisingly comes out at 150 degrees as is on 150 micron setting. Also picked up an Attalus Attalam 230S laminator, this is an A4 size laminator, heavy as all hell, all metal. That goes well into the 170-180 degrees out of the box. Both were cheap second hand finds so ... I mention all this just in case anyone else (like me) has been searching for a working combination for this process. Oh should also mention the laser printer then a Xerox Phaser 6510 (using the original starter cartridges that it came with). I chose this one specifically because it does 1200 x 2400 dpi, is remarkably affordable and overall a decent printer for this.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

@@xConundrumx Fabulous news! Thanks for posting all your findings 🍻

@xConundrumx

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrantWyness Final update, alas the Dahle did not work out. Feed through only pcb no issue, pcb + glossy paper however is just too much. On the other hand the Attalus worked great, better than I could hope. Took of the protective shroud as the board was pretty small. It has 4 rollers, 2 before and 2 after the heater assembly. The PCB came out flawless. Not a single chipped edge, broken trace or other imperfection. The paper came loose without even having to tear at it, just the running water stream was enough to flick it off. Pretty happy, all I need now is to find some liquid tinner. The MG Chemicals stuff Mr. C uses is not sold in/shipped to Europe or so it seems.

if you are so worried about getting oils from your fungers on the paper, why aren't you wearing latex gloves during the entire process?

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

When I wear gloves my fingers don’t know what they’re doing. Commercial gloves are usually coated with talc. That is another minor issue. Careful fingers are the way...

go to a thrift store and buy an electric hot plate/griddle so you can stay out of the kitchen. 10 bucks well spent

nice video, but a lot of water wasted.

@GrantWyness

Жыл бұрын

Ahmed, you are right about the water! I don’t know where you are from, but here in the UK we used to have more water than we knew what to do with…saying that, climate change is re-educating us. 👍🏻

So much water and energy for such a tiny circuit board, poor planet !

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

Isn’t it just. I’m being more mindful in my hobbies

@reybarrera6544

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent video Grant.

@GrantWyness

3 жыл бұрын

@@reybarrera6544 Ray, thank you muchly🍹

@nexus1972

2 жыл бұрын

I tend to soak my boards in water in a tub rather than use running water. Also for cleanup I use a tiny bit of acetone not sure if thats the 'thinners' you were using