Lucian Pronunciation has been updated! See the Variants of Lucian Pronunciation video from 2023: kzread.info/dash/bejne/loV20tmEh9HAcdI.html While this first video from 2020 on Lucian Pronunciation still contains much useful information, particularly on one of the variants (Samosatene Lucian), the entire system has been updated to include a total of six variants, meaning six conventions for different states of the Greek language in the Koine Period; watch the new video here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/loV20tmEh9HAcdI.html Learn all SIX VARIANTS of LUCIAN PRONUNCIATION with my audiobook of Lucian's JUDGEMENT OF THE GODDESSES: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/lucians-judgement-of-the-goddesses-in-6-ancient-greek-pronunciations 🍎It includes a detailed pronunciation guide that resolves the questions raised by this video. Download the free Ancient Greek Pronunciation Chart here: expert-experimenter-2558.ck.page/abae340f49 Get my trilingual audiobook The Gospel of John recited in Ancient Greek in Lucian Pronunciation, as well as in Latin and English: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/gospel-of-john-english-latin-greek-trilingual-audiobook-text

@kripat2414

3 жыл бұрын

in which book of Lucian you found this knowledge?

@aristotle_4532

8 ай бұрын

There are elements of ancient pronunciation in the greek of some modern speakers, but it is not documented. I remember illiterate villagers in the 70s using έι for η, with a duration longer than ε but shorter than εε, λλ as two separated λ of equal duration, υ pronounced between ι and ου, κ pronnounced between κ and τσ, and so on, and even everyday words used in the ancient sense and not the modern one. Schools eliminated these differences.

@jonswanson7766

6 ай бұрын

My favorite Lucian story; two members of the Roman Empire were conversing. Said one, I performed a function for the Emperor so well that in appreciation he made me a Roman! His friend quipped, if he really wanted to reward you, he would have made you a Greek!

This sounds very good to my native Greek ears . In my opinion this is the best approach to the real ancient pronunciation. Excellent work! It would be great if you also made a video about ancient Greek metrics in poetry.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Σε ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ! 😃 Είμαι πολύ χαρούμενος που σου αρέσει. 🇬🇷 Yes, I will definitely be making ones about Ancient Greek poetic meters in the future! Have you seen my videos on Latin meters? They are the same as the Greek meters (they learned from the Greeks, of course!)

@dionysiapanagou6035

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Ευχαριστώ!

@JasonKatsanis

3 жыл бұрын

What pronunciation is normally taught in Greek schools? Here in the US, they usually teach the Erasmian pronunciation, and I hate it. :-(

@dionysiapanagou6035

3 жыл бұрын

@@JasonKatsanis we learn ancient greek by adapting the modern greek pronunciation to it. It is not perfect but it is better than erasmian for sure. I think that is the best for us Greek people, because modern greek is the evolution of ancient Greek so it would be extremely difficult to use another pronunciation for educational purpose. However I believe that this "cuts" the most important functional characteristic of the ancient language: prosody. (I'm sorry for my bad English, I hope it is understandable what I say)

@StergiosMekras

3 жыл бұрын

I concur. Besides, I'm all for any system that can eradicate the abomination that is Erasmian pronunciation.

Wow, this is great and you guys are awesome! 22:53 I remember watching a video of an Anglo professor disdainfully referring to Modern Greeks who butcher "classical" pronunciation, and recommended students who had their pronunciation criticized by Greeks to simply say that they use the "Erasmian" pronunciation. "Interesting,!", I thought. I really wanted to learn this restored Classical pronunciation... until I heard him speak. The thickest Gringo accent you could think of! You couldn't even make a parody of that. OF COURSE Italians and Greeks would stare in horror and politely tell them no thanks. I can't understand the nerve and lack of self-awareness required to condescend native Greeks AND present yourself as a model of correct pronunciation while sounding like Slavoj Zizek speaking English. I won't link to the video, but I'm sure we've all encountered such people. In the end I decided to learn Modern Greek to the highest possible level: trying to absorb their prosody, rhythm, intonation, body language... (not that alien to me as a native Spanish speaker) and then move chronologically back, making incremental adjustments (Maybe even using materials intended for native Greek speakers?). I really like the pronunciation proposed in this video as it is basically Modern Greek, with a few tweaks to the vowels plus the addition of bilabial fricatives.

@orthochristos

3 жыл бұрын

"...while sounding like Slavoj Zizek speaking English..." You killed me with that!!! LOLOLOLOLOL. Yes, I absolutely agree with what you said! As a native Greek, I am infuriated with the condescension and total lack of self-awareness by these people.

@nikospapageorgiou2345

2 жыл бұрын

You sir, are a madman. Good luck in your journey.

@danielweller2778

2 жыл бұрын

Ironically, "gringo" derives from "griego"... that is... "Greek".

I'm definitely saving this video. Your system makes the sound changes appear natural, and explains the evolution into modern Greek really well, not as implausible as some other systems. It brings a whole new dimension of understanding to my learning of modern Greek to the table. Thank you for broadening my understanding of the sound evolution of this beautiful language.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! 😃 Look for videos on my other channel ScorpioMartianus where I demonstrate Lucian Pronunciation. I’m not perfectly consistent at it yet in these recordings, but you may find them useful: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GFjDEJtpRUCZsoPitPfcaAvPtsrG1ilP www.patreon.com/posts/athenaze-audio-36186862 www.patreon.com/posts/41402787

As a native Greek speaker, I am thrilled by this convention and believe it will help me learn ancient Greek and answer many doubts I have had for a long time about our modern Greek.

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Θαυμαστό!

As a native Greek speaker I have learned to pronounce ancient greek using modern greek accent, yet I really appreciate your research on phonological history. I think your work is exceptional. Keep going.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Σε ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ! 🇬🇷 Θα ήθελα να ρωτήσω τη γνώμη σας επειδή είστε Έλληνες: τι πιστεύετε εάν αυτό το ηχητικό βιβλίο έχω ηχογραφήσει. Ακούγεται αρκετά κοντά σε μια ελληνική φωνή, παρόλο που είναι μια αρχαία προφορά; drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GFjDEJtpRUCZsoPitPfcaAvPtsrG1ilP

@user-go1wv8sz5v

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Ναι. Ακούγεται πάρα πολύ καλά. Ειδικά το σίγμα που συνήθως δυσκολεύει τους ξένους ομιλητές ακούγεται στο 95% των περιπτώσεων πολύ σωστό.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-go1wv8sz5v ευχαριστώ πολύ! 😃

@MrTsakie

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke It is very pleasing to my modern greek ears, although the pronnounciation of the ou,ei,oi obviously sounds alien. I had to make an effort to understand the words that included these dipthongs.

@lm7_gio

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke ναι, το γ και το σ ειδικά, που συχνά δυσκολεύουν τους ξένους, ακούγονται εξαιρετικά.

As a person who regularly pronounces Koine Greek words for people, I appreciate the attention to detail here. I think I will be altering how I pronounce them, since I'm aiming for 1st century CE, and this transitional Lucian form hits that note perfectly. I don't actually know what form of Koine pronunciation I originally learned, since I worked hard at mimicking the sounds from my professor, rather than looking it up in IPA or inquiring further. Now you've got me curious!

KZread algorithm has led me to this video for some reason... I’m Korean and I’ve never had anything to do with Greek, but I must say that Im thoroughly enjoying this content

@ShaareiZoharDaas

4 жыл бұрын

He is a genius and he is adored for his talent subscribe and see for yourself.

@Tiaimo

3 жыл бұрын

I'm Thais. Couldn't agree more. :)

Πολύ καλή προσέγγιση, μπράβο σας ! Όσο για την ερασμιακή προφορά, έχετε δίκαιο, είναι ότι πιο ξένο στο γλωσσικό ένστικτο του φυσικού ομιλητή των ελληνικών.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Εὐχαριστῶ, ῶ φίλε! Συμφωνῶ.

@ezzovonachalm9815

10 ай бұрын

user-wobry7uk8n Why the Deuce do modern Greeks chan ge the pronunciation of BRAVO into μπράβο ??? ??? Brigitte Bardot into μπριγιτ μπάρδω ? This is hilarious ! And we should pronounce classic greek following modern greek degeneration ?

@WhizzKid2012

6 ай бұрын

Is there any difference between Erasmian and the reconstructed pronunciation of Greek?

Σας συγχαίρω κύριοι που διδάσκετε γνώσεις τις οποίες ακόμα και πολύ νέοι Έλληνες, δυστυχώς, δεν διδαχτήκαμε. Thank you so much for your work, things make a little bit more sense now.

14:12 "not historically valid... namely Erasmian" *grins at the camera* OOF! That shade! XD

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha. Yeah, and like I said, use Erasmian if you want! No problem there. As long as people don't confuse it with an "historical" pronunciation anymore than Modern Greek pronunciation applied to Ancient Greek. Nothing wrong with it.

You're doing great work :-)

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Ὦ βέλτιστε ῥῆτορ! 😊Ἡμᾶς γὰρ ἀξίους οὐκ οἰόμεθα τοῦ ἐπαίνου σου, σοὶ δὲ χάριν πολὺν ἔχομεν. I regret we did not mention your work specifically in the video. My apologies! We hope that the link we provided to your channel in the description will at least help to bring more people (especially Ἕλληνες! 🇬🇷) to the idea of native Greeks exploring historical pronunciations. Podium-Arts is vital to our work outside of Greece. Πάλιν, ὦ ἄριστε Ἰωάννη, χάριτάς σοι ἴσμεν.

@Rasarel

4 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Good start. I commented already on your other video.. I forgot to mention that there isn't just a connection with french, but also with German. There are many words such as υπέρ (über), γάρ (gar) and so on that can help you getting closer. Another hint I could give you would be ήτα pronounced high like in the first syllabus of German verbs such as: lesen, gehen, sehen etc. Maybe it sounds a bit far-fetched in the start but all those sounds create a special vibration when pronounced that affects the human energetic field (aura).. Modern Greek doesn't have those ancient sounds anymore, just french and German is still carrying this kind of cultivation. Those sounds are blocking the animal side of human nature hence people tend to become more intellectual...

Thank you SO MUCH for this! I love studying Koine Greek, but I simply could never, EVER abide with Erasmian pronunciation (i.e. "haw law-gaws" for ὁ λόγος just always stuck in my throat). Instead, I studied modern Greek pronunciation and superimposed that system onto my Koine Greek. I really like having this soundly researched, transitional system that you have presented here, as well as your encouragement to acknowledge modern Greek as a guide--it's a great middle-of-the-road approach. I'm planning to adopt it fully for Koine Greek.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad you like it! 😃 Let me know how it goes! Hopefully you find it useful.

@hansmahr8627

3 жыл бұрын

Haw lawgaws? That's not Erasmian, that's just a bad American accent. It's ho logos.

@TroyLFullerton

3 жыл бұрын

@@hansmahr8627 the question then is, how are you pronouncing the letter o in ho logos. Is it a long o sound as in no or a short o sound as in hot. Erasmian pronunciation distinguished between omicron and omega by having omicron sound like a short English o sound... which is why "ho logos" sounds like Hah lah-gahs (as closely as I can write it).

@hansmahr8627

3 жыл бұрын

@@TroyLFullerton Well it's difficult to use English vowels to describe the vowels of other languages because English vowels are actually often diphthongs or glides and not pure monophthongs. The o in no for example is not a pure o. It's also not the o in hot. The o in logos is a short [o], a close-mid back rounded vowel like in Italian como or German oder that (at least as far as I know) isn't used in British or American English.

@wordart_guian

3 жыл бұрын

@@hansmahr8627 is it close-mid though? possibly true-mid

As a classicist with a passing interest in linguistics, thank you for explaining all of the pronunciations and tongue positions. You truly make it really easy to replicate/understand for this English speaker. Being able to read or understand IPA is one thing, but in practice replicating it is much harder...

I am amazed! I have recently discovered your channel. I ve studied archaeology and I am teaching ancient Greek and Latin in public greek schools. It's really interesting how the lucian pronounciation just makes sense for native speakers of modern greek.

Amazing video, I was searching after a good video about ancient greek pronunciation for a long time and I think I couldn't have found a better one. Keep up the good work, by far the best channel on KZread about latin and ancient greek to me!

Finally someone explains it. Great video guys, informative even for native modern greek speakers such as myself.

I can respect the desire to use a more evolved pronunciation to receive ancient texts. It has the facility of continuity. As a Chinese person I know that in every context outside of linguistics, modern Chinese is used to receive ancient texts even if they sound nothing similar like what we understand Old or Middle Chinese sounded like. Old Chinese reflects a phonetic system that existed from roughly the same period as Mycenaean to Roman Koine

Amazing video. I will definitely continue to watch. Thank you very much.

Fantastic resource for students! thank you Luke, keep up the amazing work.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! 😃

Please more videos with both of you guys. You guys are so incredible !!! It helped me so much

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

wow! as a greek congratulations for your work!!! amazing

Thank you for this video, it was quite informative! As my primary interest in Ancient Greek is studying comparative Indo-European linguistics, I feel like the archaic variant is best suited for my uses. I appreciate that you created different models for different time periods and use cases.

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad you liked the video! There will soon be an update, so look out for that. Also see this: kzread.info/dash/bejne/mJ2Hqdp9hpawebQ.html

I've only given it a superficial glance so far, but I think that spreadsheet is going to blow my mind!

I love it! Bravo!

Great pronunciation to the beautiful Greek language!

Would love a video on pitch accent. Keep up the great work, this content is unbelievably useful. Cheers

Brilliant work to the two of you!

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Thank you so much for this, I've been struggling to find an appropriate Koine pronunciation since all of my textbooks use completely different standards!

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

This is very gratifying to hear, Sam! Thank very much. Check back in later, and let me know if it has helped! 😊

Thank you !

Love the way this is edited.

I have great sympathy for this young man !. Not only for his knowledge, but also for his sense of logic he have !. I recommend (from now one) this channel, to anyone who is interested in learning (approaching) the ancient Greek language .. The only one who connected poetry and measure, (in contrast to Erasmus), in its presentation ... Very smart and excellent proof !!.

I love your use of the IPA for pedagogical purposes.

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad! Thanks

THANK YOU.

I studied under Dr. Buth in Jerusalem in 2017 (9 month Hebrew immersion intensive). He is without a doubt the most brilliant man I have ever met, he speaks ~15 languages (including Koine Greek) and seemed to know everything about everything. That being said, I find this discussion of different methods of pronunciation of ancient Greek absolutely fascinating. I don't know NEARLY enough Greek to be able to make an informed decision of which system I think is best, but on a purely subjective level I think your system sounds nicer on the ears. I think I will make the switch!

@lostdude5625

4 жыл бұрын

Nine month Hebrew immersion intensive sounds like 9 months of pain, that you would look back to in joy later in life 😂

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Nathan! Thanks for the kind compliment! I *love* Dr. Buth's work (he is also an excellent speaker), and I regret proposing an alternate Koine pronunciation since his scheme was very thoroughly thought out. It's probable that both Buth's and our systems were synchronic, and diatopic in nature. If people like Buth's Late Koine Pronunciation, they should use it! If they were to make a couple historical modifications to it, I would include the palatalization of γ χ κ before front vowels, and geminated consonants (as in Cypriot Greek). And if you add in the long/short vowel distinctions, you get access to all the poetry and music in the same pronunciation. If you did that, I would still call it a highly evolved variant of Lucian Pronunciation. Personally, I love the sound of the οι /y/and αι /ε/ per Buth's system.

@nathanbinns6345

4 жыл бұрын

polýMATHY I hope you get to meet Dr Buth some day if you haven’t already. I think you would get on like a house on fire. He has been fighting for teaching classical languages as living languages (and against the tyranny of the grammar-translation method) for decades.

@mtblp7459

4 жыл бұрын

@@lostdude5625 whaaaaaat? Hebrew is one of the most awesome languages ever...

Συγχαρητήρια για τη δουλειά σας. Σας παρακολουθούμε πάντα με ενδιαφέρον και χαρά από Ελλάδα!

I like this pronunciation system. It doesn't feeling like I'm hitting myself in the back of the head with a cane (not too much anyway). I hadn't really thought about the way σ is pronounced in modern Greek, either; I've done it automatically. And the transaction from the archaic φ/θ/χ to the modern makes much more sense now! I must have read it in Horrocks' book and not understood it.

Just stumbled onto your excellent channel - immediately subscribed. Έξοχον!

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Εὐχαριστῶ σοι! Ἆρα σὺ Ἔλλην εἶ;

@dorianphilotheates3769

3 жыл бұрын

polýMATHY - Παρακαλώ, φίλτατε. Ita vero: ego non enim solum Graecus, sed Graecus Graecorum - Graecus sum apud Romanos.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

@@dorianphilotheates3769 Κάλλιστα! Ἥδομαι γάρ σε γιγνώσκειν, ὦ φίλε Δωριᾱνέ. Ἆρα ἀληθῶς ἡ ἐμή Λουκιᾱνὴ ὀνομαζομένη Προφορᾱ́ σοι ἀρέσκει; 😃 Χάριν παραδίγματος, ἰδοῦ τοῦτο τὸ βιβλίον ὃ τῇ φωγνῇ μου ἀνέγνων· drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GFjDEJtpRUCZsoPitPfcaAvPtsrG1ilP In my experience, few Greeks tolerate recitations of Ancient Greek in any voice other than those from Greece itself. Yet I am hopeful to make Lucian Pronunciation appealing to the Greek ear. I will be very grateful to have your opinion on my work so far. 😊 Χάριν σοι οἶδα! 🇬🇷

Εύγε φίλτατε!

I had seven (!) years of Latin and two years of Greek in secondary school, and I remember very little of it. Little did I know that I ended up becoming a descriptive linguist working on Ryukyuan languages. I discovered your channel a month ago, and you've convinced me to start relearning Latin and Greek. I managed to obtain Orbergs book for Latin, but I was wondering if there's any textbook you can recommend for Greek. The books by Polis look promising, but so does Athenaze... Can you recommend any of those? Keep up the good work, Luke! You're eloquence is inspiring!

This is so interesting!

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Grazie!

20:07 Aspirate /h/ As Thais, it's easy for us to distinguish. Your pronunciation is on point. Similar to Thai letter ข, ถ, ผ, respectively. The thing I've had to do with Greek is watching a documentary about Greek in many areas from philosophy to architecture but not language - in particular. Anyway, I really enjoy your vids till the end.

Excellent approach at last a non rigidly academic approach in a continues evolution of a living language.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Ευχαριστώ πολύ! 😊

As a greek, bravo

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Ευχαριστώ πολύ!

Ok, this may be harded that I though. I really accustomed to the Late Koine pronuntiation, but I'll try to use it.

Looking forward to your discussion of the pitch accent.

nicely done

Defintely a nice proposal, since it is a balance between the Classical and Modern -old and new-. By the way, I've read your PDF document (which is fascinating, since you're basically telling us the phonological history of Greek) and I think you should have added on page 14 "QUANTITY & QUALITY" that consonant gemination is still a feature of today's Cypriot Greek dialect (in order to encourage its use).

When working where Greek was commonly spoken, I definitely heard pitch, which was slightly different from that found in the Jugoslav group. (Pitch and Length)

Enhorabuena por el vídeo.

Some of these pronunciations look like quantum field theory equations haha

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Haha

@Adhjie

3 жыл бұрын

I dream to understand all refs in chuunibyou op physics parody legit tho

I like your system a lot. There is one thing that might be relevant about the treatment of βήτα (and perhaps δέλτα) after a pause or after a nasal. Just as you recommend that spiritus asper be sounded only sentence initially or after a pause, it might be appropriate to pronounce βήτα as a stop in the same phonological environments. It is believed that βήτα became a fricative first between vowels and later in other environments. So βήτα can be a voiced bilabial fricative [β] everywhere except after a pause or after [m] where it should be pronounced as a voiced bilabial stop [b], much as the letters b/v are pronounced [b] after a pause and [β] between vowels in Spanish. You are probably aware that in modern Greek, β,δ are often still pronounced as stops after [m], [n] (you have already addressed that γάμμα is a stop after [ŋ]) Consider for example the modern Greek words κουμπί and άντρας which continue the Ancient Greek words κομβίον and ἄνδρα and are pronounced with a stop after each nasal. So perhaps βιβλίον could be pronounced [biβlion] after a pause and συμβέβληκας could be [symbeβleːkas]. What do you think?

@Philoglossos

4 жыл бұрын

Hi there! I'm Raph from the video haha. So first, yes, after a nasal stops should be retained as in MG, I guess we just neglected to mention this lol. Secondly, this is a really good point, and we considered prescribing it as you say, where basically it works exactly as in modern Spanish. However, the voiced stops start becoming fricatives significantly earlier than the voiceless aspirates, so we think that by this period a full transition to fricatives is not implausible, and since part of our goal is to prescribe something with the highest likelihood of pleasing the Greeks, we chose to ignore potential allophony. Plus, unless you're a Spanish speaker or a speaker of another language with this sort of allophonic lenition, it's a bit more work to learn than just using fricatives all the time. That said, we don't expect people to adopt this system without some modifications, and the one you propose is perfectly valid for those who prefer it! :-)

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Yup! Raph and I decided to cut out the mention of -ν + β- = /mb/ (for example) for the sake of keeping the video a bit shorter, since this is consistent with Greek of all periods. And just as Raph said, we do think that the Spanish approach to the voiced stops (instead of fricatives) is a prefectly reasonable pronunciation! He and I are both Spanish speakers so we find this appealing aesthetically too. But we also love Modern Greek and enoy the full-fricative version. If you like the Spanish-style, go for it!

@wordart_guian

4 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Hi, I have a few questions In coptic words loaned into greek, a coptic omega often becomes υ, like in the months Ϩαθωρ, Τωβι, Παωνι which become Ἁθύρ, Τυβί, Παϋνί. How is that explained? (a sound change from /o/ to /y/ seems quite far) My other question is summed up here: www.reddit.com/r/Koine/comments/h9yx43/vowel_mergers_in_koine_transcriptions/ (I notice I shouldn't have used "koine era" for all since part of these transcriptions happened in byzantine era.)

Perhaps you would be interested to know that in modern cypriot there's a remnant of περισπωμένη. For example: ἐδῶ (from ancient ὧδε) has a very distinct intonation, today! However, ἐγώ may be similarly intoned in this dilect. Even though such word originally had ὀξεῖα, instead...

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Κάλλιστα! Μάλιστά γε ἀρέσκει μοι τοῦτο εἰδέναι. Ἆρα ἔχεις παραδείγμα τι;

@PanayiotisVyras

4 жыл бұрын

An example of cypriot dialect? Ἰδού, ἐν τῷ ποιήματι: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nYGB09iLpqasirw.html

Awesome 👏🏼 thanks

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Εὐχαριστῶ σοι ὅτι εἶδες τὴν ταινίᾱν ἡμῶν. 😃

I love this pronunciation system. I started learning Ancient Greek using the Modern Greek pronunciation, but later on I changed the vowel phones η, υ, and οι to /e:/, /y/, and /øy/ and kept the Modern Greek qualities of all the other vowels, diphthongs and digraphs.

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

Cool! Yeah, I support pretty much any pronunciation convention.

Late to the party but a very interesting approach! From a Greek perspective, I like how it acts like a bridge between Classical and before and modern pronunciation (which it really was come to think of it) with science to back up the choices. Will probably make my Portokalos compatriots as well as Erasmian diehards livid which is a big plus! Reminds me though of my husband's complaints when he tried to learn modern Greek and particularly the one about turning honest to goodness vowels in "αυ/ευ" into consonants (though with his native language being English I'd say "the nerve"). He also posited, when I tried to explain how the word Αχαιοί probably sounded through the ages, that no, that was never a true name for people. It's just that someone inevitably would try to say the actual name but after "A" someone starting choking them.

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

Ευχαριστώ για τη σχόλια, Ειρήνη!

I've been shopping around Ancient Greek pronunciation systems before diving in to learning Greek and glad I came across your system. How I wish it was as simple as the two choices commonly used with Latin! I really want to use a spoken, living language approach to learning and at first planned on trying to imitate Ioannis Stratakis' Attic pronunciation; however you've raised some excellent points that have me reconsidering. Could you compare this system to those used by the Polis Institute as well as Accademia Vivarium Novum? I'm particularly curious how those systems handle vowel length and how mutually intelligible they are. Thank you Luke and Raphael for all your work on this!!

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for your comment! I think you’ll really like Lucian Pronunciation. I recommend you read this essay of mine where I go into detail about all of this expert-experimenter-2558.ck.page/abae340f49 Polis and Vivarium Novum just use Erasmian pronunciation, and don’t include phonemic vowel length, the most essential feature - Erasmian does not represent an historical reconstruction, but masquerades as being one. Enjoy reading! Let me know if you have further questions.

@veritas399

Жыл бұрын

According to Polis Institutes book "Speaking Greek as a living language" page IV "We [Polis] followed the pronunciation that belonged to the cultural elite at the beginning of the koine period. . .Why? The decisive factor was pedagogical. In the first century Greek pronunciation had become far removed from the spelling, a phonetic evolution that adds complexity to a language already reputed to be challenging to learn." Polis refers to this pronunciation as "early high koine".

Carla Hurt here, a Latin teacher from Australia. I love your pronunciation and from about a year ago I chose to undergo the slow but very rewarding process of changing my Greek pronunciation from academic Erasmian to an Archaic Variant of Lucian Pronunciation (I went with aspirated consonants because... I like the archaic sound). I'm still partway through this journey, making my first draft of an audiobook project, pronouncing all of the book of Matthew in AD50 Learned Koine. I've changed a lot about my pronunciation in this time, sometimes misreading the IPA and not realising I had been learning the wrong phoneme until months later, ahaha. But it has been very worth it and I have very much enjoyed the aesthetic exercise of paying close attention to things like phonemic vowel length and adding in a pitch accent. Recently I'd been meaning to find your unlisted video on pitch accents again, so I could practice and fix some of my vices that seem to creep in gradually like weeds if I'm not checking myself with good spoken examples. It seems to have disappeared from Google searches - which feels such a loss. Even if we might not have arrived at a perfect grasp of pitch accent, that video was the most convincing and practical audio example of pitch accent I have ever found on the internet. I'd be tempted to make my own imperfect version of a "tips for saying pitch accents" video even just so that something like it exists again, though I do not claim authority in this area, just an interest in the practical application.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Hi! The link for the video is here: lukeranieri.com/audio/

@FoundinAntiquity

3 жыл бұрын

​@@polyMATHY_Luke Eυχαριστώ!

Ah so you are the ScorpioMartianus guy! Fantastic! Great job guys! I will be most likely using the more into archaic verchion of lucian pronounciation and this is great you have developed such flexible, facts and great analysis based system!

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Enjoy!

Χαίρεται πάντες!

Do you have any thoughts on the book "Reading and Pronouncing Biblical Greek: Historical Pronunciation versus Erasmian", by Philemon Zachariou?

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Lol yeah it's mostly filled with nonsense, asserting things that are verifiably false and directly contradicted by contemporary grammarians living in ancient centuries. Greeks feel a powerful need to push their Modern pronunciation as far back as possible, for some reason, in order to validate themselves. This is silly. They can just enjoy Modern Greek pronunciation of the ancient language because they like it. They shouldn't write tortured apologias that are easily falsifiable. In contrast, Horrocks and Allen have the best documentation.

Thank you for making this accessible. I find your work very interesting. Any thoughts on insights that might be gleaned from Romeyka (Pontic Greek) pronunciation in relation to your Lucian Pronunciation?

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

Hi Karl. Pontic is really fascinating! It’s mostly derived from Byzantine Greek so it represents many aspects of Greek about a millennium after where I put Lucian Pronunciation

For native speakers of Cantonese, the more archaic end of the pronunciation spectrum will be easier to learn, I think.

@user-yp6yr9te7l

2 жыл бұрын

Cantonese share some sound inventory with Ancient Greek. But it is also very different. A cantonese person who also speaks Japanese, Italian or Spanish will be better equipped. Better yet if they can also speak other European languages like Latvian and Finnish, due to the pitch accent in the former and the vowel/consonant length distinctions in both.

Great video and content. Wondering if there are any updates to this pronunciation, being that this is 2 years old. All the best,

What a beautiful convention, plus an excellent illustration of how to pronounce words not only how to transcribe them. Similar conventions often lack a spoken illustration. Kudos to both of you! A question: What about using a labiodental approximant [ʋ] in the two false diphthongs αυ, ευ instead of a bilabial rounded fricative [βʷ ~ ɸʷ]? In other words, what about αυ [aʋ] and ευ [e̞ʋ]. The sound [ʋ] (often an allophone of /v/) and the change [w] > [ʋ] (> [v]) are well attested cross-linguistically. The sound [βʷ ~ ɸʷ] is probably closer to [w], while [ʋ] (which is basically [v̞]) is probably closer to [v ~ f]. Using [ʋ] would have a funny effect of introducing another IPA symbol looking very like a Greek letter. It seems to me that the sound [βʷ ~ ɸʷ] goes along well with more conservative pronunciations of affricates [kx, tθ, pɸ] and is in the same category of sound that may be difficult more to be produced and/or understood by speakers of (Western) European languages. The sound [ʋ] goes better with a more progressive change to [x, θ, ɸ] and may be easier to be produced by speakers of (Western) European. It is attested as a allophone of /r/ in some variates of English, a phoneme or an allophone of /v/ in other Germanic languages (Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and Southern German) and allophone of /v/ in Slavic languages (Slovak, Slovene, Ukrainian). Happy to hear your opinion!

While learning Ancient Greek I tended to try to keep the normal d and g sounds and also ph and th. The biggest problem for me is when they are followed by a consonant, it's very hard to make the aspiration easy to hear and to pronounce. Examples: aphlektos, anthropon, or even aphthonos. So that's why in the end now I think that a more modernized pronunciation is more "manageable".

Excellent work, gentlemen.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

OK- as someone who’s finally pulled out the ancient greek textbooks I bought two years ago at a used bookstore (thanks, quarantine!), I really really appreciate your videos on greek so far and they’ve helped answer one or two questions I’ve had diving into the first couple pages even. Especially with the distinctions between different eras of X pronunciation- while not fluent I’ve got a long history with russian so I was very guilty of wondering if, and assuming, it was close to that russian in-between pronunciation based off the explanation given in my text, so I’m very grateful for that to be settled. I know your channel is mostly Latin, but would you consider doing a video going through the sounds of Classical Greek as a whole? I originally found your channel looking for just that and instead found all the Discourse about era pronunciations- which is fine!!! It’s been really fascinating! 😂 Or do you have any classical greek pronunciation videos here on yt you feel are great and would recommend? Because that’s really feeling like a huge roadblock right now. If not either way that’s 110% fine. 😁 Thanks again for all the work and thought you’ve put into these videos. You’ve managed to do something extremely difficult- make complex ideas much simpler to understand. And that’s awesome.

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

I am going to make videos just like you ask, Phoenix! 😃All part of the plan. And I have quite a few on my Latin/Ancient Greek channel ScorpioMartianus: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nZWF1paIotDgktY.html kzread.info/head/PLU1WuLg45SixrxviQiHOlkdkT-XPvyrgv

@PhoenixKyuketsuki

4 жыл бұрын

polýMATHY In a world where I just found out I’ll continue to be stuck in corona lockdown until freaking June, your reply makes me so happy. Thanks man, and I’ll def check out the links!!

@Philoglossos

4 жыл бұрын

Have you seen Podium arts? He is Greek but does the reconstructed Attic pronunciation beautifully.

Well that settles it, your recommended pronunciation guide is right for me. I am choosing to expand from Latin to ancient Greek to develop a better affinity for all Proto Indo European languages.

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

Great! Have a good time. Post questions when you have them

Can you do a video on iambic trimeter scansion and recitation?

Thanks. I was searching for the Ancient Greek pronunciation and I just found you. 👍👍👍

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Oh great! Definitely read my essay too secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/h13.ace.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/ancient_greek_pronunciation_guide_ranieri_2021.pdf

@Aditya-te7oo

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Ok. Btw, whatever you're doing with Latin that's great man for all the Latin learners. I'm learning French and Sanskrit (seriously) and dabbling in Latin. 😄😄

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Wonderful! I have a video on learning French I’m working on. You’ll enjoy it!

@Aditya-te7oo

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thanks man. 👍👍👍

Wicked velar fric explanation transferable to the Semitic sounds that I've been struggling

@ramkitty

2 жыл бұрын

Oh sick. In learning (hardly) the arabic abjad I had the intuition that the letters are almost cartoon shapes of how to pronounce the sound. This subsequently has helped me symbolically remember and sound through a problem. The aspirated occulusives also follow the similar pattern and then sound of the arabic letters that sound so foreign to the west

As far as I know africate consonants, namely pφ, tθ and maybe kχ exist in some Dodecanesean dialects (especially Rhodes, Karpathos and Kasos). And they co-exist with bilabial f and v sounds. Also these people use all longs by positions in their speech (I mean geminated consonants and they generally have the tendency to pause in double consonants like ξ, ψ, and even Ζ or in the ones that are formed between different words and also in consonantal clusters). Probably, in the Docanese, the most conservative version of Greek phonology is used (especially by the older people). My plan is to learn to speak Ancient Greek (not just translate) and I find their speech helpful input towards that goal :)

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

Very cool. Let me know how it goes.

7:00 I'm a native Cypriot Greek speaker and I think double stops (ττ, ππ, κκ ) are pronounce as aspirates ( /tʰ/ /pʰ/ /kʰ/) in Cypriot Greek . Or at least that's how I perceive them .

@Philoglossos

4 жыл бұрын

It's true that in Cypriot they are both aspirated and Geminated. This prooobably wasn't already the case in Koine (i.e. they were probably just geminated).

@andreasi8741

4 жыл бұрын

@@Philoglossos I agree. Do you know any sources that talk about Cypriot Greek phonology ?

@Philoglossos

4 жыл бұрын

@@andreasi8741 This is the one I've read, but you might be able to find more comprehensive ones: web.archive.org/web/20160123141552/www.kent.ac.uk/secl/ell/staff/amalia-arvaniti/docs/ArvanitiCY.pdf

@olbiomoiros

3 жыл бұрын

As a Cypriot I agree. νν μμ λλ σσ are pronounced as proper double consonants, but κκ ττ ππ are as you said.

Hi Luke! Maybe I am wrong, but do "au" and "eu" wouldn't be rendered in the IPA as "awβ" and "ewβ" (both with that superscript w)? Great video as always and I really like your system, sounds more natural for me since I learn the modern Greek language and it sounds beautiful.

Thank you for all your work and for these videos! I am experiencing a bit of dysphoria right now, because I am trying to learn Koine Greek through Ben Kantor's (slight variation on Buth's) system and via his introductory course that is available through the Biblical Language Center. I am really enjoying learning Koine Greek via this system, but I find a lot of your arguments for the Lucian system compelling. Do you think it is possible to lay down a base-layer of knowledge with Ben Kantor's system and then switch to Lucian later? Do you have good materials for learning ancient Greek with the Lucian system?

maybe not many people watch it but plz dont be sicouraged your hard word is super cool. i dont watch all of your videos but i find super intresting the ones i watch and am bad at expressing thoughts in english so just take awat that your awesome :) .

@polyMATHY_Luke

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! What's your native language?

@johnnyroyal6404

4 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke greek :) and i find more easy to pronounce slavic languages than saying οι as ωι and αι ας ααι.. xd. But im from epirus and just like my grandma i pronounce some words heavier i think

@lostdude5625

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnnyroyal6404 On the positive, us greek nerds here love a strong greek accent, so your best attempt is english at least sounds beautiful, unlike a greek which learns a perfect english accent :-)

As French, i have mostly all the phonems. But it is still difficult to have the correct accentuation on words and long vowels. I have the same problems with latin. 😅 Exception for the consonants, they are very strange.

Thank you so much for this very informative video! I am a modern Greek speaker and this pronounciation does sound very friendly, but in a way also feels correct (while the modern does not- after all, if we have 5 different ways to write the same i sound, there must be a reason!) I am by no means a specialist, but there is a word that keeps me confused as to the lasting of the pronunciation of δασεία. Namely, the word αρέσω (to like) which used to have an aspiration, was borrowed into Bulgarian as "haresvam". Yet, I know no other greek words that carried their δασεία into the slavic languages. Bulgarians came in contact to Greek speakers somewhere in the late 7th century, if I am not mistaken. So what was happening with the δασεία?

ἀσύνετοι οἱ πολλοί... τινὶ τὰ τῶν πάλαι ὄντως ἀναγιγνώσκοντι ὀλίγον διαφέρει ἡ γνησία προφορά, εἴπερ ἐστί, διαλεγομένους γὰρ ἄλλοις ἀνθρώποις οὐ δεῖ ἡμᾶς προσέχειν τῷ τρόπῳ τοῦ προφέρειν, ἀλλὰ τῷ κατ' αὐτὸν λόγῳ .

@Michail_Chatziasemidis

3 жыл бұрын

Ταὐτὸ γοὖν καὶ τοῖς νεοέλλησι λεκτέον, ὧνπερ οὐκ ὀλίγοι λυπηρῶς πολλάκις τοὺς σλαβοφώνους/ξενοφώνους(!) νεοελληνίζοντας χλευάζουσι. Τῶν ἀλλοτρίων τὰ ἐγχειρήματα οὐκ ἐκτιμῶσι.

@rowletdecidueye4740

Ай бұрын

This looks familiar to a koine Greek student. Can you provide a translation? I can translate some parts, but some seem to not make sense. Here's my attempt: Many are unwise... The true pronunciation differs a little to him who really reads the things of old (or should ὄντως be placed here?) Indeed it is, for we do not ought to pay attention how to pronounce, when discussing with other men/people, but [to pay attention] for the reason why [the pronunciation is such]. Where did I go wrong? Anyone else who can offer some help, is much appreciated!

Awesome work … this is helpful!

@polyMATHY_Luke

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad! See the Variants paper on LukeRanieri.com

Thank you guys so much for your work! I still use much if not all of your convention for my own interaction with Koine. Have you considered doing anything similar with Classical Greek? Also, I can't seem to find any guide like this for Latin on either of your channels; is there one that you would recommend? Keep up the good work! Valete!

Great Job! For the purposes of deciding how to pronounce a gamma, why are diphthongs that begin with back vowels considered front vowels?

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

The exact same thing happens in Icelandic, actually.

Luke, could you make a column on your chart for the Buth pronunciation? You mentioned it is very close to your "evolved" pronunciation, but I'd like to precisely know how it is different.

Θα ήθελα να σας ευχαριστήσω γι'αυτό το βίντεο γιατί με βοήθησε πολύ να συνεχίσω τις αρχαιοελληνικές σπουδές μου. Αποφάσισα πέρυσι να μαθαίνω αρχαία ελληνικά γιατί μου φαίνονταν πολύ ενδιαφέροντα, αλλά μόνο ήξερα την αττική προφορά που μου φαινόταν πάντα πολύ παράξενη, ειδικά η προφορά των φωνηέντων «η» και «ω», που πάντα ήθελα να προφέρω σαν [eː] και [oː]. Σκεφτόμουν όμως ότι πρέπει να μάθω απόλυτα σωστή αττική προφορά για να μιλάω αρχαία ελληνικά. Ήταν ανόητη ιδέα, αλλά ήταν λόγω αυτής που δεν έμαθα πολύ, και την πρώτη φορά που βρήκα το βίντεο σας, δεν ήθελα να δοκιμάσω τη Λουκιανή προφορά. Αργότερα παρέλαβα μια ευκαιρία από το πανεπιστήμιό μου να σπουδάσω αρχαίο ελληνικό πολιτισμό και νέα ελληνικά στην Ελλάδα για την άνοιξη, οπότε άρχισα να μαθαίνω νέα ελληνικά αντί για τα αρχαία πριν ταξιδέψω. Τώρα ήθελα να συνεχίσω να μαθαίνω αρχαία ελληνικά, αλλά έγινε πολύ δύσκολο να επιστρέψω στην αττική προφορά μετά από πέρασα 3 μήνες χρησιμοποιώντας νέα ελληνική προφορά. Βρήκα πάλι αυτό το βίντεο και τώρα μου φαίνεται υπέροχο. Τις περασμένες εβδομάδες δοκίμασα την προφορά σε τυχαία μέρη που βρίσκω αρχαία ελληνικά κείμενα και είναι πολύ εύκολο να προφέρω. Το μονάδικο παράξενο πράγμα αυτής της προφοράς είναι η προφορά της λέξης «και» σαν [cae̯], γιατί το μυαλό μου θέλει να την προφέρω σαν [ce] (νέα) ή [kai] (αττική), αλλά είναι ακόμα καλό για μένα. Αποφάσισα να χρησιμοποιώ αυτήν την προφορά στις σπουδές μου αρχαίων ελληνικών, και κάνω όρεξη να μαθαίνω πάλι. Σας ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ! Καλή συνέχεια! -από έναν φιλόγλωσσο από την Αμερική

Fascinating. I'm here because of a deep frustration with the typical modern British English pronunciation of Greek names and words, but also because I'm trying to understand the sound changes in the development of Celtic languages - such as the reasons for the P / Q split. I think the sound changes in ancient Greek give some valuable insight into this. Aside from figuring out how τέτταρες becomes pedwar in Welsh and quatre in French, my big question is - why?

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

The PIE sound was [kʷ], which Latin retaind as “quattuor,” “quantus” and Greek makes this /t/ or /p/ τέτταρες, πόσος. Welsh did a similar thing. Changing the velar sound into /p/ also occurs in Romanian: opt < octō

@timflatus

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke yes indeed, although I can't help feeling we shouldn't use realis mood when talking about proto languages. Palatization and velarization are much easier to understand than this radical shift in place of articulation, which can be found in diatopical neighbours such as Welsh / Irish and Umbrian / Latin

@timflatus

2 жыл бұрын

I think the answer I'm looking for is to do with phonotactics. Initial consonant mutation is a feature of Celtic languages - one theory is that it may be caused by participles in older forms, which have since been dropped. There may also be issues of perceived cacophony avoidance or simply "doing things differently" in order to differentiate one language from its neighbours - like Brazilian Portuguese consistently using the plural form of the 2nd person and European Portuguese consistently using the singular. I don't know if we will ever have a definitive answer :D

Well when I started studying ancient Greek, the first thing I wanted was to be able to distinguish spelling by sound. But in class everyone pronounces, for example, ει and η the same, which makes difficulties for me. I accept that certain different spellings might have sounded the same at certain times, just as they do in English. But it seems likely that at some time they were distinguished. The pronunciation at that point is the one to which I would like a standard to approximate.

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I feel the same way. Lucian pronunciation is for you! 😊

Hey, Luke:D What pronounciation convention are you into yourself? Do you use this one on your own? Or maybe you try adapting it depending on the era of the text?

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Yup! I use Lucian Pronunciation for all my Ancient Greek. I only modify it for really specific reconstructions.

@Olymus

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thanks for the response. With love from Russia

Was there a follow-up video on pitch accent?

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Soon!

Χαιρετώ εξαιρετική εργασία όπως πάντα, χαιρετισμους από Αθήνα!! I'd like to ask about the sources you used especially the ancient grammarians both for ancient greek and latin cause I'd like yo have those in handy for any case as I'm a student of history and archaeology in Athens and you know our professors haven't say anything about this and I'm trying to find out by my own research using primary and academic accurate sources so I'd be glad if you help me with this

Luke, it would be interesting to hear you address the relationship between Latin and Greek. We know that Greek lit. was much beloved by Roman people of letters, but it begs the question - are these all loan words from Greek, or did many of these words descend from proto Latin...centuries and centuries of enriching ones language by trolling Greek texts...but to this extent? and there is VERY little coherent writing on the subject. For the most part, it is mostly treated by paleo linguists comparing their relationships to IE. All i know is that as a modern Greek speaker with some exposure to ancient Greek, it really seems like every fifth word is familiar to me! It truly would make a great segment...and thank you again for giving space to the successor spoken languages of Greek and Latin!

Hi Luke! Do you have a video pronouncing the names of Greek and Roman Mythology? :D

@ezzovonachalm9815

10 ай бұрын

@relendil THIS is THE GOOD IDEA comming out of all those discussions CAESAR > sisoo.. POMPEIUS pompy CICERO sisiroeu RAMSES ramEses....

I am fascinated by your pronunciation and totally sold on it. I am using the modern pronunciation for ευ and αυ. How do we know that these had a bilabial fricative instead of labiodental?

This is amazing, and I'm gonna try to learn it :D I downloaded the spreadsheet which shows the historical development of phonemes diachronically. For a while I've been very curious about the pronunciation of Sigma σ. My Greek professor at uni was excellent, and pointed out that historically, Sigma was a weak consonant, and that certain word-initial /h/ sounds were allophones of Sigma. Pronouncing Sigma as /s/ in Lucian is perfectly fine of course. But I wondered how Sigma historically could be a weak letter and have [h] as an allophone. To me it sounds like Sigma was more likely a /ç/ sound, because some languages have this sound and also have [h] as an allophone of it. That would also explain why intervocalic Sigma historically disapeared in some inflections, for example the Second declension Genitive ending -ου, which historically has a Sigma, and is why there still is a Sigma in Third declension Genitive -ος endings. This weakness of Sigma must have happened after the Homer period, cos you find the archaic Genitives with their Sigma's still in tact. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Also, I adapted some unicode characters for use as long vowels in Greek for my own note taking, just cos I hate it when orthography is overly cluttered with diacritics, and having a macron and breve on Alpha's, Upsilon's and Iota's bugs me, lol. I use ƣ for long Alpha ȷ for long Iota and ɥ for long Upsilon, with combining accent diacritics, rough breathing and Iota subscript where needed.

@Philoglossos

2 жыл бұрын

I think you may be misremembering slightly what your professor explained - it's not that sigma had [h] as an allophone, it's that one of the earliest sound changes in Greek (pre mycenaean) was the debuccalization of /s/ to /h/ word initially and sometimes intervocalically. This sort of shift is very common (persian and many dialects of modern spanish are two good examples) but /s/ was never by default a sound close to /h/. It simply was weakened in certain contexts. /ç/ is not generally an intermediate stage for the shift of /s/ > /h/.

I don't understand why in the table the delta doesn't change in the archaic variant, but in the spread sheet linked in the description it does. Also is this for koine greek or ancient greek? I do like this system, great work!

@lumino8435

Жыл бұрын

I'm no expert but I think a reason may be to maintain similar aspects between modern and archaic greek so as to create the intended transitional form of the language. Also as far as I understand it the video is about Koine Greek, hope this helps!

Thanks Luke. I try to follow all your videos on Latin and Greek. I am interested in the Greek New Testament. What pronunciation should follow for the time of the first century AD, according to what you propose. Is it just like the Lucian Pronunciation or should I make any modifications?

@polyMATHY_Luke

3 жыл бұрын

Lucian Pronunciation is the way to go! Thanks very much

@fernandoserpicelli8109

3 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thank you

Εὐχαρίστω!

I don't know much about any Greek, so I was surprised to hear that Greek has these same consonants as Irish! Broad and slender for "g" and "c" and "ch" are exactly like Irish. However it is strange to me that any language can have these but still they don't have two different "L" sounds.

A friend just asked me about how we know what pronunciation was used in “Ancient Greek”. I started having PTSD over the months (!) that I spent trying to get the “right” pronunciation. I set him on to Lucian pronunciation to get him studying Ancient Greek rather than chasing the Wil ‘o the Wisp that several teachers are trying to nail down as the exact historically correct AG pronunciation. But for the love of all that’s holy, whatever your pronunciation, SPEAK WITH A GREEK ACCENT!!!

9:57 I like the Archaic sounds the most. The letters (eg. beta, chi, upsilon) sound closer to modern English in my opinion, plus they were used during the time of Alexander the Great.

@polyMATHY_Luke

2 жыл бұрын

By Alexander’s time many of them were probably changed

@2020Twenty

2 жыл бұрын

@@polyMATHY_Luke Just saw your Greek chronology spreadsheet, and yeah, it does look like a lot of the archaic sounds started changing around 400-300 BC, but continued to be used until a few hundred years later, fortunately enough.