Curtis is right that the term "tilt" was popularized by poker, but it actually comes from pinball. If you hit the machine too hard to try to adjust the path of the ball, it'll display TILT and turn off your controls

@LuxiBelle

6 ай бұрын

I like the poker term Felted. It means you rage bet over and over until have nothing but the felt on the table.

@yGKeKe

6 ай бұрын

Anti-cheating mechanic that not only was caused by anger, but also caused anger. Poetic, really.

@tristan6773

6 ай бұрын

ong everytime you were close to beating the high score your jealous friend would just bump the machine and Tilt you

@roastbeefguy

2 ай бұрын

Came to say this exactly

Curtis almost bursting out of his shirt dang. He really hitting the gym as hard as his soloQ grind.

@kabloom6776

6 ай бұрын

Nathan too. They both made gains meanwhile I did nothing lol.

@jaywu4804

6 ай бұрын

Nathan's legs are *huge* compared to videos from a year ago.@@kabloom6776

DISCLAIMER: Not a rant post. Simply pointing out the differences to different competitive game genres that have less toxicity and poitning out ways in which the moba formula can create an environment that can create toxicity. * Starcraft: Strategy game mainly 1v1 if you lose its because your opponent beat you with better moves and efficiency. Similar to chess. You control all your pieces. * BattleRoyale(Fortnight, Pubg, Apex etc): Shooter last man or team standing. If your good enough you can hop in squad lobby as a solo and wipe squads on your own. If you're that good you can be in a squad and if your entire team dies, they can still get a win if you carry. * TeamSports: Typically, premade teams that go into competitions or leagues together and have open communication on the court or field in which they play. If there is any kind of randomized teams in a game, it is mainly done for fun. You typically see teams let go people who weren't a good fit lol or see individual players leave teams who they feel they cant win with lol. * MMORPGS: Typically have clan wars where the volume of players on each team is so high and your overall impact in the outcome is not that high. game usually tends to reward players based on time spent in game grinding with gear and titles or levels something you can do yourself PVE. * Magic the gathering (TCG) or Competitive Pokémon: Typically premade teams or decks that you have to make efficient battle versus others in 1v1 to climb ranked ladder. Everything is on you in this game and some rng. * League of Legends: Team based RTS requires a bit of time investment learning basics and decent understanding of a decent number of champions. The one level of achievement they provide in League is your rank. Skins can be bought or unlocked. However when you lose a game there is a legitimate chance the loss may not have come from you playing bad it may have been on or more of your teammates. If that statement wasn't true then it would also be untrue that you can have an easy lane opponent get fed and proceed help invade the enemy jungler, gank your bot hiding under tower or be strong enough to 1v2 if you get ganked. The game has created means to make it less snowball-y and one sided and less 1v9 and what this does is make it where your likelihood of winning is not just yours but entire team. This is what creates toxicity in LoL the one metric that determines how good a solo queue player is ranked, a measure of you individual skill to climb but its based on wins not performance so if that person raises their skill and win lane they can still lose game. * Now that last statement is true in other games you can have a good lead in pokemon and get swept by their last mon, You can get 40 kills as a team in a battle royale and get swept by a solo at final circle lol, You can be up by 50 in basketball and lose by 3 in last quarter. Typically in those games/sports you will review it as a player or team and pinpoint the cause of the loss. We let up on defense we should have started the full court press after they scored 20 pts straight, maybe our big men allowed too many offensive rebounds. In battle royale instead of making sure you battled for highground for the final circle you gave it up. Maybe you choked and miss some easy shots. It will be something that you can objectively point out and work on in the next practice session. * In league if you trace back a loss it may be something like everything was going good till the 5/0 top/mid/jgl/adc came and dove me under tower. Now objectively you can say i can play the dive better maybe a survive maybe i get a double kill. Ideally it would be to not have an 0/5 top but that is out of your control if you are in a different lane. This is why you are told to focus on what you can control. However, the discussion is about why solo queue is toxic and when you put millions of people in a server with varying levels of skill or even interest or investment into the game this is a high possibility especially when in League most opinions really aren't respected unless someone is at a certain rank or higher. So, it creates this hierarchy of skill that gives people the incentive to climb or win. Something that i just described may not always be in your hands. * Toxicity is very much linked to a victim mindset, which can be related to a feeling of helplessness or feeling a lack of agency. * Mainly in team sports games they tend to point out if someone was underperforming or letting someone clean up the glass or letting opponent score. I would honestly like to see this play out in a real world example like a solo queue basketball league where you get a random team each game. You only get elo for winning the game. Also, the elo is a means of bragging rights or superiority like how it gets used in League. * Typically mmos tend to be less toxic if you hop in an mmo on a new account you will almost likely find a veteran who will make it their duty to coach for literally no cost at all. Its no pressure however, LoL creates pressure and if it didn't people wouldn't try hard and their wouldn't be any toxicity. Attempting to have a random player base of millions of people somehow be well versed in the ways of stoicism doesn't sound like it has a high chance of happening TLDR: Leagues ranked system creates toxicity due to the ranked system intending to be a display of your solo skill but is heavily impacted by the performance of not only you but your team as well. Unlike other solo ranked games where the blame can only be traced back to you solely. Typically, you don't tend to see as much toxicity in noncompetitive game since there is no reason for it toxicity is spawned from expressed frustration taken to varying levels of extremes. I think equating LoL to Poker is fair as far as playing as best as possible will cause you to win more but also if Poker was like LoL it would be like having a hand thats supposed to be a certain hand but then one of the cards can just change number or suit randomly.

I'd say the point of Baron is to give a grand finale to a game, a chance for the losing team to turn the game around or for the winning team to seal it up. Especially as a viewer sport it's better to have that clear focus on Baron/Elder fights that even new viewers can quickly understand rather than have games only end through slower sieging or split pushing or by a random wipe

Anytime I have felt annoyed by my team mates, it's normally because I haven't seen what happened, 95 times out of 100 it's normally something unlucky, or a really close 1v1 or 2v2 that could have gone either way. It's only in the replay that I see what happened and they are normally mistakes that I myself easily could have made - in fact when watching the replay mine are much worse.

I was only in the MLS for 3 or so months and i had to leave it in march but the process and fundamentals stuck with me and i went from silver 3 in march to plat 4 today. These guys are legit!

when i think about toxicity i have to wonder if some part of it is due to online anonymity. i can't image some random people getting together after work to play, say, beer league softball, and behaving anything like an average soloq league player

Happy new year! Looking forward to the new year and new season!

I have commented and emailed in so many times about Wild Rift and how your podcast and the goals you guys set and the standards you guys set are so helpful. The journey I've had this season has only been successful because of what I've learned from you guys. Many seasons ago I hit master as Lucian main but with all the season changes and the matchmaking changes was struggling to climb through diamond the past few seasons. I still recommend doing a video on the similarities between League and Wild Rift and how your whole mindset and strategies can be implemented in the same way. If you need any inspiration involving wild rift I'm happy to have that conversation. I am currently expanding my champion rotation and currently main Xayah with a lot more success. Hoping to climb into master again before the end of the season. Thanks for all you guys do

I feel like a fun segment you guys could do is rankdle, people post their plays to a site named rankdle and then you have to guess what rank the person that made the play was at. It's an in-queue web-game that streamers like to do and I feel like it would be fun to get the perspective of professional league coaches. I'm sure the site gets abused by smurfs that are "in emerald" and that the site intentionally picks bait clips, but idk, it could be a fun idea. Even if the clips being sent aren't a good representation of each game as a whole, I'm sure your experience reviewing cherry-picked games for review would prove invaluable hahaha

I think when it comes to toxicity in league I truly think the biggest issue is a lack of understanding about what the game is. Champions being broken, teamates sucking, jungle diff, broken MMR etc etc etc. I think all of these narratives come from people just not understanding the game. I think the problem is there is nothing in the game telling you what the game should be. I only know why things are the way they are because I watch the BBC and was able to learn these things. But there are actually millions of players who just picked up the game and was like wait.... I am level 6 kass, they are level 6 noct... we are both lvl 6 and i completely got swept, how is that fair? Or a jarvan is ganking constantly while my jg is a lillia just farming, etc etc etc. These are all massive points of conention but it actually does all make sense if you know why things are the way they are the problem is there is nothing in the game to tell you why things are the way they are and so left to their own devices players get incredibly frustrated because there really isnt anything else for them to thinkl.

Happy 2024!

12:45 I know this sentiment came from a mid main/coach, but during my time in top before I quit the lane I would literally go on a 10 game streak of not seeing a single player other than my lane opponent for almost 20 minutes. Granted these situations took place while I was in silver, but I still see this happen in gold/plat, so I think it's important to recognize that that type of situation absolutely does occur. It really sucks because Top really does get it the worst and it's tough to find the right time to help your teammate from mental booming and feeding a Fiora, Riven, Aatrox 12 kills in that time.

In regards to 20:30, this recorded before season 14 but now the games are actually on average 30+ minutes. With second herald gone it almost always goes to soul in my games. Emerald 1 elo for reference. Good vid btw!

* if you are playing alone the fist 15 minutes, yo are not playing the game really * part of the beauty of the game (at least for me) is when in a game you find and "connect" with other players that are playing serious too, and from nothing (the individuality of each player) a collective play is created.. and that's something only LoL has.. a really good comunication / honor system imo

Woho! A new episode. I long for these :)

very nice gains mr curtis!!! lookin incredible!

"khabib beat tony ferguson or some shit" - that one hurt me curtis... that one hurt me 44:20

Happy New Years BBC’ers 🎉

@5:50 at this stage of the video you're critiquing i don't think the maker has said the way league is designed need to change...he is just say it is toxic. the Key on this video is toxicity, yes you have the most control in the first 8 mins yes, but your ability or inability to have a sense of agency or success in that stage is where other players flame and get toxic. it's not when your team comes together and works, its when you are alone and don't play like they want you to, then you get flamed. If I am ahead or behind as I should be vs my lane opponent it doesn't matter. The team will likely blame you if that counter part is a challenge for them past 8 mins or even if they roam before 8. it's my fault somehow. Even though i pinged them MIA and they died to the gank and if they didn't roam, it's my fault that they are my lane opponent and it's 10 mins vs 2 level ahead top lane. the fact is most players don't get league and don't get that top comes out at 10 mins 2 levels ahead of everyone, thats the design, but it's toxic. lol. The most critical moments are when you are alone, not just in the lane but alone in your stage of understanding of league as opposed to your teammates, its the major reason why the toxicity exists.

Every community has toxicity. Ive realized this community's toxic is basically just trying to look/be too clean/grown up. It makes it harder to learn when you want to be delusional about how bad the ladder actually is at times. Thats why theyre changing the whole ranked...

I would like to know what you guys think of League's matchmaking not matching based on role MMR and rather the average MMR of everyone in the game. I think it leads to more skill discrepancies, which is something that feeds into the frustration/is another thing to deal with, except this thing is fixable by Riot by implementing role-based MMR matchmaking (still keeping everyone within the same bracket too, of course) League is immensely popular, so I don't see there actually being much effect on queue times, especially at lower ranks. At higher ranks this the it might have to change due to the smaller amount of players, but I also think that those players would be grateful to have role MMR matchmaking there too as it would matter more there.

Including the fact about maining or first timing the champion in the MMR system is completely f*cked up. You will be literally punished for playing main champion. Less mmr gains for wins, more mmr loss for lost games. How is this right? Thats just like bounty system, completely wrong. Getting punished for playing good. It will make you even more frustrated and tilted if you end up losing with your main, not even talking about unlucky lose streaks. Yet on the other hand people will go and play random shit for the first time thinking it wont affect their mmr when they lose so much and ruin games for others playing mains. Yet the this "main/not main champ" multiplier could be really tiny and almost irrelevant, will we ever know?

1:17:00 -- it's still there & hilariously, ironically enough, while watching another episode yesterday, a point was brought up about why the reporting system isn't taken seriously, because of people reporting for ridiculous reasons; but the loading screen tip i took a screenshot of today said, "if someone makes you uncomfortable in game, report them" & i said-- riot ENCOURAGES that nonsense; everyone's uncomfortable unless you're truly playing above your bracket lol

Not done yet but 12:20 specifically. Yes but you are talking about it from a mid or jgl perspective. Meanwhile that top laner fighting that 4/0 Aatrox can't do anything. He walks up for gold, dead. He walks up for xp, probably dead. He leaves to try and help someone else, he loses his turret and now Aatrox gets to do whatever. All that time that top laner is getting more and more pissed that he can't do anything which leads to toxicity to his team not helping him unfuck the situation even if it isn't advantageous to do so.

i think that if you could honor enemy teammates it would reduce toxicity

spent 14 hours in the last 2 days grinding ranked, 28 lp short of masters before last match of the split, gets 27 lp for win. first time in over 150 games ive felt repulsed by the idea of playing my main champion again. absolutely devasted and deflated. literally could not walk right when i left for a breather after the match. might be the last time i ever touch league again but appreciate you guys all the same for the wealth of information you have provided me with over the last couple of months.

@OnKrp

6 ай бұрын

Take a chill pill man, it's still just a game and you were literally there. The fact it didn't show up on your profile doesnt matter, you know where you at.

@wochaoainigejiba1211

6 ай бұрын

@@OnKrp falling 1 lp short of a goal i worked 3 months for just makes me feel sick to my stomach tbh, especially since my champ and playstyle looks unplayable this season. a million things i couldve done differently to make up for the 1 lp difference and i couldnt do a single one of them right. idk, just fake it till i forget it is the play here ig.

@aurorasksk

4 ай бұрын

@@wochaoainigejiba1211ur just choosing to be miserable

I love you guys. I want to be coach top lane by one of u lol.

Will it account for mathcups? Like if ur champs has a 30% winrate against another champs will you win more and gain less? Than that would reward one tricks

Trueskill will 100% not account for draft order and counterpicks. If someone blinds a champ like qiyana and someone responds by first timing malphite, not only is that qiyana screwed in game but also screwed out of lp in both a win and a loss. Keeping pocket counterpicks will be rewarded, and blinding will be punished even more than it already is.

Wow, the poker analogy is the perfect description of winning/losing in league.

@jamesyoungopera

6 ай бұрын

It's also similar in poker when a pro player smurfs against beginners/drunk people, they are basically guaranteed to win in the long run, but there will be random factors that make them lose occasionally. It's the perfect example.. the other players are also kind of like your team mates, I've heard so many people blame others for not 'playing their hand' how they should and therefore costing the supposedly 'better' player money. Perfect example of this is Phil Hellmuth.

Hmm... I only ever get visibly toxic if someone else is toxic, so it's hard to relate. Other factors are: teammates not cooperating, spamming ff, opponents getting lucky/saved, new champs, bugs, lag(, nephew pressing buttons). Once in Overwatch I was stuck with 55% winrate. I had low damage, eliminations, healing... Only when I worked on those "stats" did I climb up. I'm not that good in FPS and didn't enjoy competitive OW (I think later they improved the system). Meanwhile in League I ALWAYS gain more LP and lose less. At that time many people were saying the opposite, praising OW and complaining about LoL. I definitely want games to factor in a lot of things we do for winning, but I've never had any problem with League LP even though I never knew how the system operates. I think static gains are ok, just don't get worse than that.

Have ya'll played the URF type of LoL SR?

Trueskill 2 makes sense but i am only sure it will work if it is near perfectly calibrated/made. I don't know how it will work if it is not which it propably wont be right at the start. How it works at an imperfect state is what will likely be the issue. This system has a lot of potential so I am glad fear does not make them avoid such changes.

@gaborcsuzi3671

5 ай бұрын

Well, what it will 100% do is make the meta champions more valuable, since you literally gain more lp that way. Which in direct result will increase toxicity. If they oveshoot it one tricking might completely go off the map.

@gaborcsuzi3671

5 ай бұрын

Soo you might get away with 1 champ only, but otp ing will be no lonfer the most efficient way to climb by far, picking mets champions on the other hand will be.

@sololeveling7390

5 ай бұрын

@@gaborcsuzi3671 Well im a onetrick and speaking for myself i dont see me not playing my main unless its winrate goes way down for some reason

I played wildrift peaking in high masters. It’s pure hell when it comes to snowball. Games will be dead even at minute 6, by minute 15 you’ll be down 15k gold and your nexus is gone. Rotations are insane, farm is often thrown away in favor of keeping up with rotations and once you fall behind you will fall so far behind so fast it’s unreal. You lose farm while the enemy gains it while also killing you. I’ve haven’t played PC though so maybe that’s normal. Seeing someone go 20-0 and just one shot everything in their path happens every couple of games.

I finished master this season!!!! Wooo lets gooo. Also my names nathan so yall keep throwing me for a loop

It bothers me people keep talking about true skill2 and not actually what Riot has specifically said about it. First off it's not 100% confirmed they are using it, but they plan on trying. And it's not a set system where you have to use performance matchmaking, that's just 1 aspect of it. They could still use the system without any performance based metrics and it still might be better then the current system. Riot just plans to experiment with it later in the year and see if it's worth using. Maybe they do use performance in some way, maybe they don't. They don't have plans to use KDA for LP gains or something though. It could be possible performance only factors in for placement matches. Who knows. But the point is it's not a set in stone system where your performance has to matter, and Riot isn't committed to using it.

LP moderation based on game performance will be good I think. Especially for ADC. You'll no longer lose 100% LP for the games where you won bot lane but your frontliners refuse to press the enemy or contest any objectives.

I wonder what you guys feel about maining fill. I've been doing it so far this season and it's been fun

@GrammeStudio

6 ай бұрын

it unironically is a step towards stamping out toxic effect of isolated laning if role queue is gone and everyone fills, everyone is on an equal footing. right now, many complain it's unfair that they sometimes get an ally who's autofilled, but every enemy is on role what this does is teaches everyone to learn how other roles play. imagine instead of the top berating jungler to prioritize ganking his lane, while botlaner also wants the same for his....we instead have a toplaner that understands botlane is the wincondition because he has played adc a lot. less toxicity from disagreement. ofc, instead of reverting back to old seasons where whoever types their role first gets it, riot would randomly assign everyone their role

@cvilla1944

6 ай бұрын

Ahh, you mean 50/50 jungle support

Speaking of trueskill 2.0. It does not effect LP gains and losses. In that document that riot gave us, it just modify the matchmaking with some or all data of your games. But riot didn't have even started to program it yet. There are only speaking about it.

If you know you have an issue with tilting, what has worked well for me, is turn off chat entirely, most people don't type anything useful anyways. You can use pings for everything. I also recommend turning off enemy emotes. Then condition yourself to focus on your own play.

51:30 Curtis misunderstands his post. The poster is saying that by trying to improve and win games, you are more susceptible to being tilted by your teammates poor play. I can related to this, it is what happens when you try to control the outcome. And if you just play for fun, then you get smashed quickly, which is also not fun. However the poster misses something crucial. Transcending this mindset, and being able to enjoy a game you lose while playing your heart out to win is actually extremely difficult. But it is a skill worth mastering, and you can work towards it incrementally.

Woah posted 2h ago, i woke up early!

if role queue is gone and everyone fills, everyone is on an equal footing. right now, many complain it's unfair that they sometimes get an ally who's autofilled, but every enemy is on role what this does is teaches everyone to learn how other roles play. imagine instead of the top berating jungler to prioritize ganking his lane, while botlaner also wants the same for his....we instead have a toplaner that understands botlane is the wincondition because he has played adc a lot. less toxicity from disagreement. ofc, instead of reverting back to old seasons where whoever types their role first gets it, riot would randomly assign everyone their role

Happy New years BBC fam! Let's continue to follow the process and learn all we can!

I could care less about people getting banned for talking shit. But when you actually run it down in my game and then I get a ban because I ripped into them for it that’s when the system is broken.

I think the whole phrase wasn't listened to. He stated, "there's nothing you can do about it without feeding more resources into your opponent." If I go top to help shut down the Aatrox I am giving the enemy mid space to farm freely. Unless I just killed that guy without using my ult or losing real health etc then I am making a trade off to give him resources. The hope is that you can get more out of the roam than you give up though. So that portion has a bit of an unintentional strawman in the argument presented. Edit: Baron didn't empower minions until season 4/5. I lean toward 5 but don't feel like looking it up. Edit2: Exactly. Gaining less MMR due to getting an easier game is whatever because one, you're still going up and two, the opponent still loses. Also by nature they are going to lose games like you said. Also, the system actually does flag where you spend time to calculate which role you actually played that game. I actually have a syndra top game in my stats due to the fact that I swapped with someone who was going to go against a Heim top. We don't have individual role MMR though so probably some swaps wont matter as much.

Are there any high Elo ekko players on oce?

“Hey everyone”??? Come on Coach we are BBCers!!!!

Smurfs would abuse any system where first time champs are used. You would just have everyone playing smurfs where they have no recorded mastery but actually they have a lot.

I view League as a game of chess as i never played poker

1:11:24 in terms of comparison to “sport” SOLO que is not comparable. Any sport that has stakes, the teams are crafted. Therefore the idea that losing less LP or gaining more in a “Fill” or “team gap” situation makes sense for the solo que platform IMO

I believe the biggest problem with league is the toxicity, and it mostly stems from no tutorial. The knowledge that riot gives you is woefully insufficient to teach players how to even play the game at a bronze level, it's insane how little is covered when you make a new account. My belief is that people in league are so tilted because they lack the knowledge to mitigate the enemy or counterplay with macro plays.

I don't think there is a way to truly measure performance besides win rate. Statistics and computer analysis will never paint the full picture. I'm afraid this will affect me because I tend to play ADC in a more supportive way when my teammates play in a selfish way, to complement them, which ultimately makes my stats look worse.

There is zero excuse not to factor in personal performance.

i dont really believe in being held hostage no such thing , play n try to win!!

As long as the new mmr system fixes rank inflation, it's all good. Cuz current master is equal to d4 of older seasons which is just sad to see it become so bad.

@timely7335

6 ай бұрын

low masters is top 6000 players, I dont think d4 was ever top 6000 (maybe way back in the day)

@overpoweredjelly3513

6 ай бұрын

@@timely7335 Current euw masters has 27k players in it. Statistically speaking (top %) it is literally the same as d2 of last season (s12). And the lobbies feel like d4 skill. It is just so bad.

@user-mm9ve4le6m

6 ай бұрын

​@@overpoweredjelly3513 To be fair, it's comparable to diamond 4 in season 8. Back then grandmaster didn't even exist.

@mikeostwald9645

6 ай бұрын

@@overpoweredjelly3513 Yeah but with worse players in low masters can't you just climb to high masters and play higher quality games?

@mystic13337

6 ай бұрын

Elo inflation will never go down again. Season 5 diamond is 0lp master today. Not going away.

Competition is toxic by nature-there are more losers than winners. and the league is the most competitive game, so in my opinion it can't be avoided.

What about making it so trueskill2 is implemented up to D1. Once you promote to Master only W/L matters so that smurfs in low elo get to Mater + quickly. And high elo isnt about min/maxing loopholes in system. Also majority of player base isnt requred to play as many games to get the correct rank.

I love when my Kayle jungler doesn’t take smite after i keep warning them or having a mid lock in Leona then proceed to feed the enemy 5/0 or have a scion roam bot seeming to ready a gank for me only to stand there and watch my fight the adc and support by myself on our half of the lane for 6 seconds and do nothing till i tun away and lick my wounds. These all could have been avoided if i just played better though.

@OneKyzer

6 ай бұрын

I mean yes, the first two you should instantly dodge. Here are outliers either way, so while shit might happen, you should still be looking to improve the only thing that you can actually affect. Yourself. These bad things may still happen, sure, but they don't happen often, and improving is about maximizing the moments when you do have impact to either counteract or straight-up avoid the moments where you don't.

@Spartanwarrior16

6 ай бұрын

Haha

@atomicchicken4453

6 ай бұрын

🤓

The concern with first timing champions, is that people will lose games for other people by first timing champions with the mentality of "It doesn't matter that I don't perform because I won't lose much MMR anyway," but it WILL hurt the MMR of the other 4 players on the team...unless Riot sets it in such a way that the team gets compensated for the one guy who decided to first time Yasuo in a ranked game. Either way, having people first timing champions all over the place will drastically decrease the quality of games across the board for everyone. It's not good for ranked. Valid concern imo. Especially if they're running it down 50+ games in a row before they figure the champion out. Also, I'm not sure that the concern is winning/losing more LP for this, so much as losing MMR for this. Imagine you lose 5 games in a row because of people first timing champions, then the system lowers your MMR because you lost a bunch in a row.....and that results in your getting worse teammates than you were already getting? I think that's why the idea is for MMR to be more individual performance based? Possibly? Play button is language sensitive btw. The Korean button actually says "Game start", which kind of reminds me of old arcade machines where you're trying to get the most out of your quarter.

44:00 I dont think you can compare sports where you are solo to sports where you have a team. Individual skill will be more influential for a solo sport.

@rex1800

4 ай бұрын

league is an individual game.

now roaming and fighting startsfrom min 5 when wurms spwans in herald pit :) atleast in my elo games jnglers midlaners fight for it on spawn :)

win/loss is the purest expression of skill. Anything else is noise. The only other reason to add other factors is to get people to their deserved rank faster.

@zemptai

6 ай бұрын

I agree, except at the very highest ring of the ladder, where the strongest roles usually occupy the top of challenger. This would perhaps allow the best performing players of each role to compete for Rank 1 without needing to be consistently the most impactful person in each game, and instead the difference of impact between the peers in your role and your own.

@timely7335

6 ай бұрын

huh interesting @@zemptai

About sticking to one champion: mains of a champion will do more damage than first timers. Imagine a Riven vs Fiora matchup where the Riven is first time and the Fiora is a main. The Riven player won't know how to fast q so won't do much damage. Meanwhile the Fiora will hit every vital. The result is simple. The Riven player thinks: FIORA IS BROKEN! But, she's not. She just seems that way because the person playing her is skilled and more to the point the Riven player is not.

Edit: using emerald because its the most diverse rank, making it most probable for poor matchmaking. Sorry for poor grammar, not my first language. 57:25 they don't, they ban people for saying kill. I don't get your point here 1:04:25 this is bad, because yes, your chances to win are lower, but you intentionally did this making your teams chances of winning lower by default. Therefore you should lose more if you lose, and your team should lose less if you lose, as well as enemy gaining less if they win. You logic is flawed. You talk about looking at a bigger picture but you don't look at it yourself. Here, youre supporting the idea of griefing games for 4 other people without even realizing it. This kind of fallacy can be drawn from many of your points throughout this video. 1:07:23 but the guy you swapped with isn't. Again you are looking at this game as a singleplayer game. 1:07:49 this is a coping mechanism, just admit the matchmaking is bad. Swapping, again, grants one player their main role while taking it from the other player. 5:49 no. it's in the hands of your opponent. The lead you can get depends on how much your opponent is willing to allow anything to happen. For example playing Talon against Syndra is so bad because Syndra doesn't have to interact with Talon and will outscale by default. When you say "but Talon can roam" so can Syndra. "But Talon has easier access to roams" no. Talon bets on Syndra being unresponsive, if she reacts to first 2-3 attempts, you're done. 6:14 the way you get in situation in mid-game where you can't do anything is your bot lane being 3 levels behind, or rather enemy bot lane being 3 levels ahead, same level as you, the mid laner. Enemy jungle having a functional brain and doing drakes, getting a tiny stat bonus. Enemy champions actually being something that they can pilot meanwhile your support picks Xerath and most useful things he does is run into fog and die, giving you information that enemy is there. 6:27 yeah, because you as a mid laner can roam, get a double kill bot lane, which doesn't prevent your bot lane dying to another gank 45 seconds later. Bad players are just bad. It's that simple. MMR system allows them to get to that rank, it's flawed. 6:52 again, this is false. If your bot lane does end up dying 10 times, and your enemy does indeed play a champion that just doesn't die (like Shen top, Zed mid, Maokai jungle...) which does happen a lot. That's exactly why sometimes its easy to snowball, you get ahead, your team sits back and lets you choose the outcome of the game. Meanwhile when your team actively tries to do something themselves and fail, that makes the game you vs. one, two or even three enemies, depending on how many of your teammates are human. 7:32 this is true, its a skill of it's own, it's probably the best part of the game. But it doesn't lead to victory, literally because you are only 1/5 of what can be done. If there's a Malphite on the enemy team, all enemy needs is a fed ADC that can in this day n age kill you with 5 autoattacks. Meaning unstoppable CC -> burst of damage -> lead from laning gone. 8:10 that's the point. At a high level which at this point is only challenger and high grandmaster. I will use your logic here. The way to win is to destroy nexus, the way you achieve that is on your team and yourself to decide. The problem is if someone is, lets say, emerald based on their laning phase but everything after that falls short, they will win about 50% of the game because that's the percentage that enemy mid lane will just giga feed them, allowing them to abuse their champion and win. If someone plays Malphite top and wins their lane 100% of the time, and played mid and late game to the best of their champs ability, they would still win a lot less than someone just getting fed on Akshan 50% of the time. It's game unbalance, stop being biased. This makes it so that if you know what's the way out of your situation, your team might not. You're all emerald, but because of this incompatibility you lose. The higher you climb the less present this problem is. Although, some people are inflated due to the nature of their champ, being allowed to make certain mistakes in diamond that won't slide in masters or higher, therefore making games in master worse because of their lack of knowledge. Putting them on another champ, completely dismisses their whole rank. I've smurfed with 86% Rengar challenger OTPs on EUW, we lost every single game in diamond when they were off Rengar. Tragic, again links to poor balance. 9:50 his point here is that depending on how much your team decides to interact with the enemy, you are effectively pushed to be in a singleplayer mindset until you have a 100% green flag on your jungler actually contesting a camp or ganking. Otherwise you as a mid laner have to account for enemy jungler being around 100% of the time (if they didn't show), while your jungler is a one celled organism. This problem is present in all ranks up until higher levels where you can safely assume your jungler knows how to play, at least in the early game. 10:55 it's a push pull game. Yes. Enemy has 4 people pulling on 2 different parts of the room, and you are the only one trying to prevent them from winning. For a normal emerald player in their rank, this isn't a winnable game. There's nothing to learn because the crucial mistakes that put them in that position weren't theirs. 12:03 while you're getting your core items, that Aatrox is finishing his full build. They don't just go afk. 12:54 this is 100% true, this is practically the only way to win these games (while smurfing). Depends on the champion they're playing and how much room others on the enemy team give you to do this. Therefore, even if you utilize this in every bad game, the win rate isn't gonna be 100% (in the bad games). 14:20 you've literally stated that you like that you don't have to fully rely on your teammates sometimes, that the game gives you room to make an impact. ????? 14:27 no, because the MMR system that you praise so much can end up giving you less and taking more, meaning that even at 55% win rate you're not moving. 14:43 this is true and should be like this. The problem arises when you lose once because you played badly, and then when you do play well you still lose. This leads to non equal effort-reward distribution, making it statistically unfair. 15:02 you're using analogy of a gambling game. Shows how little you understand about statistics and how you are literally admitting league correlates to a game depended on randomness, making half of your points fundamentally invalid. Though, the core difference in poker and league is that in poker, it's always the same deck of cards on the table, making the game less random. This thing applies to games like CS:GO. Everyone starts and fundamentally is on the same level, the only thing in action is gameplay skill and knowledge. 19:30 what he is saying is that the MOBAs are set in stone from the get go. Not even champion select matter because the game put a Vladimir main against a Zed main. It's by default a disadvantage from the moment you accepted the match. 39:20 the unfairness I've mentioned in timestamps above encourages it. 39:40 you're just yapping here. Everyone already understands it, I've never even mentioned snowballing because everyone is aware of it, but the way snowballing starts or happens, the cause, is what's the issue. I can go on. I don't plan on stopping every 30 seconds to break down your personal bias towards the game, but here's a simple probability of why you don't see or understand what people are talking about when they said "unfair". You're from OCE. The server with low player numbers. Less subjects of different skill levels are easier to distribute and exceptions that get inflated are in much less numbers. There's less than 200k players on the server. I'm not invalidating your opinions and points and calling them biased because you yourself are from OCE, but because the environment in OCE is different, making your opinions different from the majority (OCE is like maybe 1% of the player-base?). Not because you're challenger (on OCE), but because OCE itself has less players than EUNE in bronze 3 and 4 ALONE (13% of the whole server). And that's the inferior EU server. Chances of some bronze 4 players being absolute sub-humans is higher than some players on the whole OCE being absolute sub-humans. You are more probable to find an inter in bronze 3 and 4 alone on that server than whole OCE. You're too focused on personal experience, ignoring environments that differ from yours. Someone has only an hour or two a day to try and improve at the game, but the game isn't structured around that kind of improvement. If you started as a complete bronze noob, and played 5 games a day, you wouldn't improve either. Some peoples lives don't revolve around this game, and the fact that this game completely nullifies these players chances of climbing and being better is sad. Matchmaking, MMR system, and lack of clear basics is the reason. That's why it's "tilting" to be stuck, griefed, or lose in general. Pair it up with lack of interactive mechanics (meaning gameplay isn't the most fun thing if you don't interact STRICTLY with enemy champions. The fun and interaction is more about decision making, which after laning relies on your teammates as well) and you get League of Legends that thrives off of peoples addiction or fun time with friends playing it casually. (fun fact, form 2021 to 2022 games player-base nosedived, losing 30 million monthly players. Looking at the player-base during holidays that spiked isn't really reliable source of information, because it's holidays xD). Anyways, no hate. I'm all for self improvement but this game fundamentally discourages it and makes it less important than what people you play with do, because at the end of the day its a numbers game. Cheers.

The toxicity is easy to understand when you think about it in this way. You are vs 5 opponents. You are vs your own teammates more than half the time. On top of that you feel like even riot is against you stacking teams unfairly and messing with LP losses and gains. It's really no wonder everyone is on edge.

The whole “I should always win my games” mentality is so absurd, like… if you are matched such that you always win… who is losing? And why are you never on the losing team? Like is there a whole queue of people who are always losing so you can have an easy game? It’s so ridiculous. Play bots if that’s what you want.

yeah UFC is modern day gladiator

15 min by yourself is not extreme in top lane XD

I've been screaming that League needs a full revamp of the tutorial for the past like 8 years. It doesn't even explain ROLES, even though one of the first things you have to do before entering any match is to have a role assigned to you. It's even worse now that Quickplay exists, because it forces you to choose a role before even queueing up, and how are new players supposed to understand this if nothing told them what roles are?

@Pyrrha_Nikos

6 ай бұрын

I'm gonna rant about this in my own comment because I REALLY want this to change. For context, I also play Age of Empires 2. Yes, the 25 year old RTS game that you probably played as a kid if you are old like me. The original AOE2 tutorial was too simple (if you played the game, you'll probably remember it, it was the William Wallace campaign). It taught you how to select units, how to move and attack, how to collect resources, how to make units and buildings and advance through ages. That's it. Just like League's: it teaches you how to move, how to get gold, how to kill towers and how to buy items. Neither tutorial taught you ANYTHING if you want to play pvp (and it's even worse in League because you don't really have a choice. Even vs bots, you play with other people). When AOE2 launched on Steam with the Definitive Edition in 2019 (I think), it had the same basic tutorial but they added a new tutorial, that teaches you more advanced things, like unit matchups and counters, it trains you with a basic build order so your first age has some structure and your economy is well set up for the next ages, it teaches you how to micro manage your units even if it's at a basic level, how to grow your economy fast on mutliple Town Centers, etc, etc, etc. And, having talked to a lot of people about it, this tutorial helped not only new players that never played pvp before, but also low elo players that were just doing their thing because they didn't know any of those things existed. This is what I want for League. A basic tutorial that teaches the basics of classes of champions, laning, wave management, trading, of pathing and jg tracking, recalling, basic lane assignements in mid/late game, etc, etc, etc. You can even do some tutorials on micro, making people dodge high impact abilities or flashing over certain walls, etc. They don't need to be a full game, it can be a 3 minute structured tutorial where you get this things explained very basically. It would be such a huge help for new and the lower elo players that don't know anything about this stuff

Broken indeed

TrueSkill2 uses AI to determine trends that correctly measure the skill of a given player. Meaning it should be more accurate than anything a human can devise. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it compared your performance to your teammates' performance, so you'd have the motivation to try hard even with a team of monkeys. Also goes vise-versa, so your teammates should be disincentivized to int and give up.

There is nothing you can individually do as the laner being ganked, other than make it harder, or give up everything. There is nothing you can do, if you have a bot veigar account in mid lane going 0/14. You cannot play leona and burst an annie who has 17 kills and KNOWS your the only skilled player. How do you burst an annie as leona. How do you burst annie through her shield that scales off ap. What if she went banshees. What if she took double mr and conditioning. What if she has revitalize and 700 ap and 4k hp. You don't. Can the top maybe. Can mid not feed yep. Could jg have helped sure. Could you have abadoned your adc and helped sure. But how do you do that when he dies 5 time in 4 mins. You gonna go mid at lvl 3 and never come back? You gonna let jinx 2v1 bot lane nami lucian vi jg? The fact is some people are so bad you CANNOT carry them. If they COULD challenegers would NEVER lose below like plat. Don't even get me started on shutdowns and tanks vs assassins vs mages. Oh wow a squishy mage with no mobility like veigar is fed. If only I wasn't a low damage tank. But what if its an assassin who just builds hullbreaker. What if I counter their carry? Etc. Shutdowns aren't healthy as all they do is gold spike. They don't fix the issue they just cause multiple people go get fed fed. 28 and 30 are very similar. The "average game length" is actually just a surrender spamming game where someone afks at baron to lose. I won as leona top vs renekton. I think i died solo like 9 times to him because my ww pinged me to go in, then stopped to hit a control ward in top bush and left as I full stun locked renekton 300 units away from ww. Renekton took that low lvl lead +jg ganks + herald and crushed my lane. He lost being like 16/3. Why? Because I as a 0/8 1v1ed his entire team(4 mostly ap (kaisai) 1 renekton). Built mr, smacked them. Why did we really win? Renektons team inted. He carried. We 3 manned him. He lost. He couldn't carry through a stunlocking leona and ww and yone. He simply couldn't end. He did everything, but died 1 time somewhere in jg, when he got stunned for 11 seconds straight or so while a teamfight was going on. His entire team focused me. Catchup mechanics are stupid. Lane starts at like 1:30 and jgs can gank at like 2:00. You CANNOT lane alone anymore. You either take risks with every lane action including farming because of how jg cc and global works.

@eon2330

6 ай бұрын

Ultimately, damage is literally the only thing that wins games at a certain point. Enemy full tanks? Well if you do 200% max hp true damage to everyone instantly, turns out, your teammates can't feed dead people as easily. Is your alistar support gonna solo baron/elder? Doubt it. But what if that IS what you need. Then I guess you lose. If we double ahri's q damage and ratio, I bet her winrate goes up massively. People wouldn't min max games by dodging and riot wouldn't have removed seeing teammates names pregame and wouldn't have added pregame reports if teammates didn't 100% decide games. They do. People would actively dodge bad low winrate players. RIOT considered that toxic bullying. But why would you remove that? Simple. Dodging was problematic in high elo. People can see bad matchups in all elos and will dodge for them still even with the dodge penalties. With the removal of promos, and how riot punished dodging during them, we can see riot doesn't like being able to avoid bad players/bot accounts. The issue is, if riot balanced by individual skill and performance, people would climb/fall SO fast to their real elo. But that would kill the "climb journey" that diablo immortal and 4 style riot wants. Riot even admitted people in wildrift climbed to their "true elo" faster and no one was "boosted". That means riot accepts they CAN make a skill influenced ranked system and that wild rift did it well. People in silver get stuck there because they don't play 2k games a SEASON.

@viperdragon35lol6

6 ай бұрын

@@eon2330 yep completely right in a skill based system you would climb till you faced people you couldnt easily cheese anymore and fall to a rank where it started to be more even for you. The system now requires spamming games on old account with bad mmr or make new account get 40lp per game into emerald

I feel like the reaction to the video was a bit too league-specific and think he only used LoL as an example for the MOBA genre in general.

When you guys are comparing the ranking system of winning and losing to sports you forget that if a player on a bad team shines above the rest that player can be drafted to another better team. Meaning that this new ranking system would be much more like real sports ranking.

I recently found this podcast and I love it. However, please spruce up the set, the poster with the title looks awful. Cheers :)

If you don't see players making comments like the person at 50 minutes, then you don't understand how toxic league really can be. I used to be at a point with league where 1 bad game could make me miserable for a day and a half.

whos the 6% whos never been flamed in a moba lol

So a smurf will appear to be first timing a champ and be able to negatively impact other players even more? In your provided example of my top is first timing teemo into a veteran Fiora and they create this insane monster that 1v9s everyone only the teemo gets lp mitigation, not the rest of the team? I had a game recently where I was noc and X-0-X and my team was trying to push inhib so I ran into 2 ppl and just die to stop their backs. My team backed off after getting inhib then started pushing nexus when I respond so I ulted in and died to stop their backs again. Basically going from 7-0-3 to 7-2-3 (x's made up I don't remember) which looks way worse. There is no way the system will view my two ints favorably because no assist or anything statistically came from it. Even a shift of 3lp is like 10% so saying this will only change a little bit and not matter all is kind of crazy. Say I win 17LP cause I was lane favored instead of 20, but then I lose 23 instead of losing 20 now that's a 6lp swing which is about half a game over just 2 match spread and previously I'd have been even. Also dismissing the concerns because 'its only going to be a small change' is wild since no one outside of riot knows if that claim is true or not. Maybe the smurf on their first game going 20-0 nets them a bonus 100 lp to get them out of that division, their lane opp gets a loss mitigation, and everyone else on that team loses their normal amount. This also seems to make the 'losers q' allegations stronger. Oh the system literally KNOWS me and my opp are both OTP's and theirs is my counter. Thanks riot. The system knows my teammate is using a random number generator to pick their champ and the matching opp is an OTP, thanks riot. Until details of the system are out I think discussing if it's goof or bad is silly, it's all speculation on how it might work, and then debating if the hypothesis is good or bad.

@soul0172

6 ай бұрын

Don't be so dumb plz

@ggShini

6 ай бұрын

@@soul0172 hmm yes, well articulated. I see how that addresses the concerns mentioned. With this new info I see the errors of my ways and changed my opinion. Thank you.

@anon1963

6 ай бұрын

@@ggShini go and work at microsoft research then and tell them how shitty their publication is.

@ggShini

6 ай бұрын

@@anon1963 what does Microsoft research or publication have to do with riot making a 'smart' lp adjustment based on performance?

@anon1963

6 ай бұрын

@@ggShini because it's based on the trueskill 2 paper

There IS a guy reaching around 100% winrate in PVP Diablo Immortal, it ended up in him not getting any more Matches. That Game was about you playing Money to win.

Rito does do that with mmr already. If you perform 10 games poorly and win them all, your mmr plumits and vice versa

@soul0172

6 ай бұрын

They explicitly don't do that

I'm sad you guys gave so much attention to a video by a person whos this inexperienced with the game, I understand the need to protect the community from misinformation but you nearly dedicated an episode to this guy, this is the first ever episode I won't watch from beginning to end, and I've watched almost every episode twice.

TrueSkill2 sounds like a big steamy sh...

Who cares about mmr if I'm gold 3 match me with gold 3 players lol

Heeey all you beautiful people good luck on your ranked journey in 2024 🥳🥳🥳

I don't think that video about toxicity actually got to the core of why League or just online competitive games in general have high levels of toxicity. I think its because these games are online and people are anonymous so being toxic is easier as you don't have to face people directly.

End of the day, these people aren't and don't want to be competitive. You see trash talking in sports, finance, business, entertainment; there is no reason league shouldn't/wouldn't have it. Good examples can be seen in the NBA. You see compatibility issues and infighting often. You can tell by the persons tone in the "why lol design encourages toxicity" video that they aren't thinking about ranked in the correct way. The vast majority of people can not mindlessly play ranked and climb, but the video above implies that's what it should be. Literally entire video you reviewed is a falsity filled complaining spree.

knowing that im forced to stay and have my time wasted by awful players is the most toxic thing about league for me. i had a game the other day my bot ended with 40 deaths, how is that possible? edit: and people that dont actually want to win cus main character syndrome

@soul0172

6 ай бұрын

People have bad games, not everyone has the same goals or focus as you, that's SoloQ

@someguy-zg2qf

6 ай бұрын

@@soul0172 in every game someone is having a bad game but the game isnty ended there. When youre having a completely SHIT game on grey screen and the players who are doing well decide they cant carry you, voting no is toxic.

@Zolti14

6 ай бұрын

1 game sample size. lmao.

@someguy-zg2qf

6 ай бұрын

@@Zolti14 never claimed my example was common, youre literally missing the point though

@jaywu4804

6 ай бұрын

wrong, every one should play to win, that is in the summoner's code and technically against the TOS if someone doesn't want to win.@@soul0172

1:16:23 I know you're probably already tired of me for latching onto anything related to AI, but I don't really see why it'd have to be AI-gen'd to have a useful tooltip. Just have a set of maybe like 10 actual made ones that rotate randomly. I'm not here to slam you for saying the word AI, but I'm gonna slam you for normalizing it's use regardless of your intention. The actual experts and top craftsmen have already spoken. Writers, artists, actors, voice actors, etc. It's a plague to their industry and a sham of a scam for corporations to increase their profit margins by cutting them out. You guys of all people should understand that the opinions of the experts should be weighted and listened to far more than any random run of the mill nobody. With league, we listen to you guys and other challys, not Bronzie-mc drunkard claiming losers Q. With matchmaking, we listen to whoever works at Riot on this stuff, not you guys. With Chess, we listen to the top ELO rated players like Magnus Carlsen, not me claiming my opponent's cheating whenever I lose. Even in the AI space there are people on the programming side resigning from their jobs because they realize that's what's happening. And to be clear there are creatives who are experienced in programming, AI, etc. and the general stance I see among most of them who are experienced with both sides is that the current wave of AI is rubbish and a plague as well.

didnt even watch the episode yet but the "lp gains on performance" thing, if literal, is an idea that was peddled by low elo for low elo. there's no way in hell the game wont turn into a kda-fest

@soul0172

6 ай бұрын

The point of trueskill is that it learns based off of which metrics actually impact winrate and uses that info to adjust MMR faster, it won't be an obvious case of abuseable metrics to min-max

@anon1963

6 ай бұрын

no it's an idea peddled by a fair ranking system. any ranking that relies solely on win/lose is the worst system possible

first

I get you guys need content too but I'm not a fan of these blind reacts, I feel like you could have shared your thoughts much more clearly if you'd just watch the whole thing and maybe prepare one or two clips to talk about but instead this is kind of a mess :( rest of the episode was good though!

Riot wants toxic players because they just want more players in general. They stated this explicitly, they removed the Tribunal because too many toxic players were getting banned because of it, they explicitly said that the community was too strict with toxic players.

@dudeofdargon

6 ай бұрын

The Tribunal was massively flawed, it only rewards people if it's a guilty verdict. So the best choice for everyone who does it, is to punish everyone no matter what offense they were reported for.

@noamto

6 ай бұрын

No, it rewarded people for a correct verdict, and those were moderated. It didn't reward for bad judging, in fact it punished users who abused it. It also had phases were there were no rewards given at all. @@dudeofdargon

@wnsjimbo2863

6 ай бұрын

​@@noamto You are so wrong They said they removed the tribunal because alot of players just trolled there They just spammed "not guilty" and no-one got ban Also it was extremely slow

@noamto

6 ай бұрын

And where did Riot say that exactly? The person before you said that everyone spammed "guilty", and you say players spammed "not guilty", which of you is lying?@@wnsjimbo2863

I wasn't interested in the 1st section reacting to that guys video.

Keep censoring comments, but just know that it doesn't make you less wrong and you know it.

@zachlyons2425

6 ай бұрын

Lol

@IsolatePlz

6 ай бұрын

What are they censoring?

@Zolti14

6 ай бұрын

Matchmaking is not broken. You are at the elo you deserve.

@wnsjimbo2863

6 ай бұрын

​@@Zolti14don't talk facts to delusional kids

@rex1800

4 ай бұрын

stay gold forever

You guys are delusional lol

Just for a real world sports analogy for the auto fill conundrum. The NFL has had situations where they "auto filled" a position. In 2020 the Denver Broncos QB Drew Lock got COVID and was league required to quarantine and miss the game. Consequently he had been in meetings that week with the entire broncos QB roster and they all had to miss the game. The broncos were then forced to "auto fill" WR Kendall Hinton as their QB that week. Needless to say they did not win and yes the NFL is a wins losses brutal game in that manner. Link for Hintons wiki en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendall_Hinton