This is doubly impressive when you realize how fundamentally aggressive Liechtenauer longsword is. It's a style where you never parry if you can, instead, attack in such a way that your blade intercepts your opponent's on its way to its target. The control these guys have is absolutely insane.

@fredfry5100

11 ай бұрын

As one history video opens with, 'is it better in warfare to kill your enemy, or protect yourself? Logic says the former, but when facing an enemy you wish to not be harmed". That's the real essence to most martial arts, protect yourself by defeating your enemy.

@Nala15-Artist

10 ай бұрын

Look at 0:54 for example. None of those strikes are in ANY way aggressive. If the sword hadn't been there all they would have struck is air. More examples all over the video even just in the first minute. It's a useless practice.

@Brosephus

10 ай бұрын

@@Nala15-Artist You havent read Liechtenauer man! Sword fighting is divided up into 3 parts like he writes about. Also these guys are really good and you can tell they study Meyer just from the plays.

@derbarbarsemml5055

8 ай бұрын

​@@Nala15-Artist The tecniques are agressive no matter if they hit the opponent or not, shure u know bout hema?

@PaulusMair

26 күн бұрын

@@Nala15-Artist Can be provoking a reaction, can just be to read the opponent, or it can be to condition your opponent into thinking you won't feint.

Having seen other HEMA practitioners, these dudes do look insanely skilled. Even if I wasn't sure about the methodology of the training with no equipment, the results do seem to be pretty outstanding.

@relativisticvel

11 ай бұрын

My club used to say “pain is the best teacher” we would just wear helmet and gloves.

@sirnick12

11 ай бұрын

I mainly like to fight by Italian sources so I could never 💀💀 Someone would without a doubt end with broken fingers, broken shinbone, or a skewerd throat after one of those deep lunges

@sirnick12

11 ай бұрын

Yeah nvm I got to the safety rules part, and for a fencer like me, who spends most of the time in Posta Breve or Bicorno, or even from more cut centric positions like posta di donna loves to "shoot" as germans call it thrusts from the cuts, it would be just way too dangerous. I can see how it might work if both people agree to bar fencing with techniques not in Lichtenauer

@relativisticvel

11 ай бұрын

@@sirnick12 you still end up with a lot if bruises.

@sirnick12

11 ай бұрын

@@relativisticvel well duh. After the tournament in January my right hand and shoulder was a mosaic of all the colours bruises can be. Made me realize I overcommit to blocking mezzanos aimed at my hands when they come from my left tho hahah. So even in full gear pain is always there to teach

These guys are very skilled. I teach HEMA myself and I follow the same method and philosophy in my class. I think it's worth pointing out once more that this is done by the advanced fencers and under supervision if their teachers. This is no beginner training. But when applied well, this really improves ones understanding and application of the techniques.

In defend of these guys, they studied and practiced hema about 10 years. The big guy(Old Sword Player) has been studied many manuals, and understood it with reenact and dialectic method. Doing so, he found no mask sparring(아샬티. Sorry I don't remember the spelling) was just right method for inherit Liechtenauer's "fight in close, bind and feel the enemy's sword, avoid distanced fighting." attitude. Like method boxing, they don't do full contact while no mask sparring. They keep their emotions out from learning places, focusing on performing the right principle not winning. All of you, them, we know and understand the danger and possible outcomes. they are doing it not for prove something or encouraging historical whatever fundamentalism, but for just another options to improve their skills. (hope my english was right. I'm half-understanding my words)

@sirnick12

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, if both people agree to only play by advice Liechtaneur gives I can see how there is at least some safety in this madness haha

@oliverolick1783

11 ай бұрын

you have better english than alot of monolingual english speakers i interact with on a daily basis.

@AlexPanther

11 ай бұрын

I think it is also important to understand, that this was the main way of training throughout the time when the sources where written. Of course this brings some artifacts into the fencing, but so does training exclusively with heavy protective gear. From my own practice and experience teaching sword and buckler, I noticed that protective gear tends to make people sloppy and conditions them to ignore obvious risks, because the danger is just to abstract when you are geard up. The key to being a good teacher is to understand the different individual strengths and weaknesses of any given training method, and to apply them appropriately to the individual student. These guys clearly know what they are doing.

In boxing, the presence of a glove changes posture and distance. Modern boxing is a posture and tactic that can only be done with gloves. The same is true of HEMA's full-body protective gear. If you always train with protective gear on, tactics that are only possible when wearing protective gear are entered into the body.

At least wear eye protection and throat protection. It is only a matter of time before accidents can happen. No matter how skilled each person is and etc.

@jacksteel1539

2 ай бұрын

I know right, the rest I think is fair, you can risk broken fingers and it's not actually hugely dangerous but no eye protection especially is just an accident waiting to happen

You can reach this level of skill while using protection. People like Anton Kohutovič were at this level at least a decade ago, despite training in full protective gear. I have trained with this Korean group, and picked up plenty of bruises and scrapes to remember it by. The one advantage you have with lack of protective equipment is greater freedom of movement. However, overall I would say it isn't worth the risk. I received a few hits which could easily have killed me if something went even slightly wrong, including a hard thrust to the sternum which could have cracked a rib or, if it had slipped higher, crushed my throat.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

I think you overestimate the risk and underestimate the potential increase in respect for the blade in training. Note that sparring is not the same as competition matches. In bjj and wrestling, you learn to advance beyond novice skill levels by rolling or scrambling, both done without full force in order to develop timing and instinctual use of technique. Every striking sport has a version of this. In HEMA people get too wrapped in safety gear and accept the risk of kamikaze attacks, and every pairing is decided in favor of the fighter who eschews technique in deference to aggression and power. We know this didn't happen when the risk of injury was present. The old masters wrote about free-play with training weapons. We know that bullish techniques didn't work in historical contexts. Why do they work now? Why is it so rare to see a master strike in sparring or competition?

@kodain

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 Don't blame the equipment for a faulty mindset/approach to Blassfechten. Sparring without gear if anything should be slow and light. If you have to stop your attacks or alter how you fight, then it's detrimental, in my eyes. Unlike the martial arts you bring up, HEMA uses weapons that can generate way more force than your punch or kick could (which are wrapped in gloves or shin guards). Even hard as nails thai fighters train with gloves and shin guards. An accidental strike with a sword could lead to broken bones or you being skewered, even with a folded tip. A hit to the throat could crush it, to the mouth knock your teeth out (sparring with mouthguard) and to the eye could crush it or poke it out. I for one would never agree to free form sparring without at least helmet, gorget, and gloves. Preferably I'd also like elbow/knee protection, a light jacket, and a cup. If the "masters of old" had access to the same kind of equipment we do today, do you think they wouldn't have used it? As for the manuals... do we truly know? Are we 100% sure there were no "bullish" techniques and that they weren't trying to uphold some ideal of fencing? How many Japanese schools do you see fight 100% as they teach? If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid. I agree that suicidal attacks where focus is all about strength and speed aren't fun or amusing, but why do they work so well then? If you want to do away with this, you need to change the mindset to respect the blade, not to remove the armour.

@sirnick12

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 oh! This one is easy! Because outside of very limited circumstances where master strikes work outstandingly well, they are nowhere near as generally useful as good basics in delivering thrusts and cuts with intent, and especially in footwork. Plus as Fiore taught we all know that the better fencer is always the one who i better at grappling 😤

their movements are insanely fluent and elegant,mesmerizing to watch

What an amazing skill and leg movement. That is rarely seen in european and US HEMA groups.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Their footwork is so good, you can see them deciding on a strike and using their footwork to get there. So often you see HEMA players either not bother to think of their feet or at best try to respond based on what's available to them where they stand. I think that's why you see so many "force meets wall" matches in HEMA.

@dennit1221

11 ай бұрын

Sad enough that european "HEMA" chads even get outperformed in their own historic wararts...

@derbarbarsemml5055

8 ай бұрын

​@@dennit1221 idk man, i wanna see them defeat the european champs first.

This guys training like they are preparing to reborn in a fantasy word.

Been experiencing a lot of fencer rushing in and making the master cuts when they are in the stretto lately, it's really nice to see these done at q suitable distance.

While I am a firm supporter of sparring with minimal or even without gears, I highly recommend those beginners who may have watched this video only, do not try it. These people likely know each other well and spars in this manner for years and this is definitely not for you. Your body is not as strong as you might think and injures usually happens way faster than you imagine. Know the risks before trying anything.

@k.v.7681

Ай бұрын

I wouldn't even recommend it to experts to that degree. A mouth guard, light jacket and eye protection are a minimum. I look better with my two eyes, all my teeth and an intact windpipe.

This is AWESOME! Wonderful to get the technical aspects and true "feel" of western and eastern swordsmanship, and even more so, bringing it to the modern age in a very kinetic manner; LOVE IT!

Well done guys!! Im glad to see more people engaging in this historical fencing format!

The guy in the navy blue hat and sweat top has good form , knowledge of distance…. but most importantly when using a long sword like that is controlling his and his opponents center line Bravo 👏

They have excellent technique! Very impressive. Many theorize this is how they most often sparred in period, and i see the benefits of the philosophy. I have seen first hand in a group where fencers are unable to get out of the full force competitive mindset despite explicitly being instructed to spar slowly and at half strength. I wish there was a club like this in my area.

@callmequaz9052

11 ай бұрын

As a competitive person myself, I do understand. It can be very difficult to remember you're not competing, it's just casual and that you're just there to have fun/practice, not go all out. Its a very difficult mindset to break out of and that's only if they want to, some people just enjoy flaunting their superiority over others.

@Nala15-Artist

10 ай бұрын

@@callmequaz9052 No it's not.

@callmequaz9052

10 ай бұрын

@@Nala15-Artist yes it is. You're just not a competitive person.

I can absolutely see the desire, and need for improving, sparing without armor would be. That said, I would never not wear eye protection at the very least. Way to easy to take out an eye in that. The rest would likely hurt and heal, an eye getting accidently stabbed or stricken hard enough would be gone forever.

Wow, these guys not only have a lot of skill and control but also must have a LOT of experience and trust with each other. Sparring with steel blades, even completely dull feders is still very dangerous

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Why is it so dangerous?

@internalscreech

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 Because steel is solid and hefty, and blunt force trauma can be lethal.

@jakubkuczynski683

11 ай бұрын

@@internalscreech I mean they are training with soft feathers, not with tournament grade hard stuff.

@alexanderren1097

11 ай бұрын

@@jakubkuczynski683 Still dangerous if these guys weren’t so good

@alexanderren1097

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 Lots of reasons included but not limited to: -Broken hands and fingers -Even with the blunt tips, trusts could still crush a person’s windpipe -Head hits could crack a person’s skull -Body thrusts that are too hard could break off the tip and then the broken remainder of the sword, which no longer has a blunt rubber tip can penetrate the torso and internal organs -Strikes to the legs and arms could break bones But I’m not saying these guys shouldn’t be doing this. They have an AMAZING level of control. I just want to make sure if any beginners happen to see this, be aware of the risks

It's not about avoid hitting your opponent. It's about avoid getting hit.

I like it. A lot more discipline when you aren't invincible. much closer to real fencing

Great display of skills!🙏👏

Beautiful demonstration of skill and technique!

Thanks for the video 👍🏻

Yes these guys have good control, but at minimum wear a mask and some kevlar riot gloves like the ones sold by PurpleHeart. Speaking from experience, it's easy to get cocky after you've been doing it for some years, and it's really easy to shatter bones in the hand when someone makes a mistake. They make good points about how most HEMA sparring is overly aggressive because people have no fear due to all the protective gear, so a lot of it is really sloppy.

@ColdNapalm42

11 ай бұрын

The point is to train to learn control to NOT shatter bones when doing this style of sparring. Yes, oppsies happen, but by the time you are doing minimal protection sparring, you should already have learned quite a bit of control to the point of not shatter bones...or at least it should not happen anymore than using full on HEMA gear and going full tilt aggression. The mask for me is the sticking point however. Head oppsies, even with good control of power can be very catastrophic. Like should be universally unacceptably so. Like when Clements did it, it was universally disavowed. And to make it even worse, it negates the entire premise of the exercise as you can no longer target the head overall and thrusts to face are ABSOLUTELY out of the question. That changes the fight quite considerably and if your goal is to better understand how to use swords while unarmored, this goes against doing that. You need helmets at a bare minimum. Without a helmet and doing anything beyond slow drills is not only stupidly dangerous, it is counterproductive.

Damn they are better than most people I ve seen on youtube.

Love your videos.

The guys on the thumbmail look like civil war solders.

It's nice to see people of non-European descent appreciate European martial arts, especially in the East. There's an idea that Eastern countries look down on European martial arts or even doubt they exist in the first place.

@k.v.7681

Ай бұрын

From what I've experienced Japanese and Korean folk have a mutual fascination with western history, especially medieval history. The ones that tend to look down upon western martial arts tend to be westerners that never opened a history book and watch too much anime.

I am learning mayers style of longsword. We are training without protection since day one. We flearn and fence without protection, so we can learn how to control the blade from the beginning. Our high level practitioners are fencing full speed. Some of them almost every day of the week. No injuries since the school was founded over 20 years ago.

@jaketheasianguy3307

11 ай бұрын

You can 100% do it safely, but can you do it and still become a good fighter is another story. Like everyone have different needs, if people just want to copy exactly the images in the manuscripts while fencing in slow mo and never actually practice things such as power generation and proper techinques under high intensity sparring, it's cool. But to be the best version of yourself with the advices from the old masters, it's always better to gear up and actually cut people in the head or thrust them with almost full force without worrying they might die in the process. Going no gear should be something you do every once in the while, not all the time

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

@Jake The Asian Guy where do the old masters say to "gear up"? You have it backwards. Unprotected sparring at slower speed should be the rule, full gear the rarity.

@CptFugu

11 ай бұрын

No injuries? At all? Hard to believe. I've seen and experienced injuries even in unarmed combat with full protective gear when you go full force and/or full speed. Even at medium speed and pulling your punches sometimes an opponent can move in an unexpected direction and end up getting a righteous blow.

@I_Willenbrock_I

11 ай бұрын

@@CptFugu and that's why we spend the first year just to learn the principle strikes. In the second year, we slowly start to fence freely but at very reduced speed. You get faster with experience and time. It's a normal process emphasising on precision instead of raw power. Technique beats force. We dont train as opponents but as a team. We learn from the very beginning where the blades are and where they go. We learn how far we can go. The worst thing I've experienced is a small tab on a thumb or finger and that's not even painful but reminds me that I am holding my blade wrong. Worst thing I've seen was a scratch in someone's arm. It happens when a rounded blade builds up a notch from constant parrying.

잘 보았습니다~ 좋은영상 감사해요

The thumbnail looks like two of the smartest janitors getting two different answers.

Beautiful swoard play

It's cool to see people in Asia taking an interest in HEMA.

Someone knows what are the gloves model they are using? (Nice video btw only by seeing the way you guys fight i can already tell you are very experient)

Brutal! Just imagine how it was in the past

Can u guys send some links to see from where they take their equipment? would love to see what things u can buy in Asia. Maybe there is something more interesting (if it comes to protective gear) than in European shops.

Fantastic!

very very skilled congratz.

First I am really happy that HEMA is thriving so much in Korea and I hope it will thrive even more. But I am very critical about what they are doing mainly becouse the sequence starting at 0:55. The fencer to the left was just fencing against the blade of the fencer to the right, while the fencer to the right was just chilling in niederes Hängen, both terrible fecing displays, the rest was really, really wonderfull no doubt. Now to the other points that they don't mention, first they are using very soft feathers which is historicaly the right thing, second the thing (only my speculation, haven't spoke to the guy) are they trying to emulate the fear of a sharp blade? Well you can not, becouse the psychological lever is not there, you are not in a dangerous position. When it comes to working on spacing and the feeling in the bind there are safer options, if I got something wrong or if I am ignorant to something please tell me.

@AlexPanther

11 ай бұрын

Hello there. There are three points I would like to offer in response. First regarding the "fencing against the blade". There is a clear hierarchy of priorities in a fight. Self protection/safety>control over the centrer and/or weapon of the opponent>establishing the conditions for a attack. If I'm not safe, moving forward to take control of the centre is utter stupidity. If I'm not controlling the centre or my opponents weapon, I'm not safe to pursue a direct attack. What I see at the moment you tagged, is the fencer on the left attempting to find a opening to gain control over his opponents blade. His opponent on the right is denying him by moving back, trying to bait him into overcommitment. Yes, these attacks against the blade are unsuccessful, but there is a valid tactical reason for them. The Langort/Hängen is a threat that needs to be neutralised before a attack is feasible. On the other side, establishing a passive thread like this Hängen can be quite a good way to get a little breather in between or to observe your opponent without having to do much. Again, totally valid. It may not be the highest of the art, but stuff like that happens in sparring. My second point is on the nature of sparring. Sparring isn't fighting. It's a type of technique training. In sparring, scoring a point isn't the point of it. Training your technique under semi realistic conditions is. As a teacher you adjust the level of "chaoticness" in the sparring to your students needs. Now regarding the fencing without protective gear. To say that you are not in a dangerous position there is not only wrong, but actually dangerous. Blunt swords can still break fingers and poke out eyes. That being said, you mention here the psychological effects of a sharp blade as a reference point. Consider the conditioning psychological effects of protective gear. I have seen this over and over again as a teacher. People who train only with heavy protective gear take over all larger risks and do more stupid and dangerous s***t in sparring Of course it's not everyone and always, but there is a pattern and it shows consistently. On the other hand I see my own students improve and develop with the way I approach my training and I'm seeing the results I'm looking for. In the almost 10 years I train in this class, first as a student and now as a teacher, we never had even one injury. Obviously I can only speak for my own experience, but I get the best results when I'm including sparring without gear. Just my two cents on the matter.

@jakubkuczynski683

11 ай бұрын

@@OldSwordplayer Thanks for the input man.

@Nala15-Artist

10 ай бұрын

@@AlexPanther Attacking the enemy and controlling the sword are NOT two different things.

These guys have very clean form 😮

Good stuff! respect for the sword and the opponent is important! keep up the good work Was sehrt Das lehrt!

I like what I see. Greetings from Germany!

Real strong! very high skills 🗡

1:07 Master. I like to see this grip

I think this is based on the concept of respect of the blade. If there is fear of harm, it enhances your awareness of the blade's edge.

3:16 Throat stabs are final.

These guys are very good. Pratice like this with ouy body armor, takes long hoursvof practice.❤❤❤❤❤❤

not for beginners. do not try this at home.

finally a longsword vs longsword vid, i can now rest happy

awesome

If you put on the protective gear, you will trust the protective gear and perform movements that you cannot do in a real sword fight. This is the paradox of protection. So, you must mix sparring without protection.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Exactly.

@jakubkuczynski683

11 ай бұрын

Yeah but modern HEMA is not a real sword fight, the same goes for other martial arts. Even fights in the UFC are not real street fights.

I will definitely try this at home

wow. they seem super good

허이구야... 한국 최고의 고수들이겠지만 마스크 안 써도 최소한 방탄고글이라도 끼고 하시길. 사고는 순식간이다. 아무리 숙련됐어도 인간인지라 실수는 할 수 있기에.

R E S P E C T 🙏🏼

Its the principal training method of ARMA

sparring without protection is one thing, but not at least having some glasses over your eyes is just asking for trouble. a hard blow to the limbs with a steel practice sword can cause fractures or a broken bone at worst, but accidentally getting poked in your eye is far worse. even with that blunt sword, its too easy to lose your vision that way. plus your hands... wearing some padded gloves is easy and saves you the pain and inconvenience of breaking your fingers.

as a knife trainee, has same oldschool method too(and either only skilld ones can join it). if never faced knife in front of you, it doesn't matter how many times you guys traind with protected, you may freeze and paniced. you have to face threat eventually if you want your skills works. ex as MILES. it never teaches you how to cover(in CQC) cuz it doesnt hit you. but simunitions can do that. but simunitions cant teach long range gunfight. in this way, MILES is better(but not perfect). so you need various methos works on situation by situation to make yourself better fighter. you may says, there is no sword fight in these days and its also true. but that doesn't prove these methods doesn't work or worthless. it still works and they are the proof.

Whey you challenge your political adversary to single combat instead of a debate

For years martial arts practioners in Germany had always a thing for Japan, Korea or China, dependig on what martial art they trained. Using terms and scripts from the respective countries etc. Funny to noe see the same thing with German in Kroea.

Hundred training units nothing happens. But once, only once u get a thrust in the eye, or a cut through both eyes, and u are in darkness for the rest of the life.

I still don't understand the mutual rule. So basically you cannot engage when both are in extended guard, sword pointing at each other ?

@relativisticvel

11 ай бұрын

You don’t get points if you hit each other. If you hit Simone, you have to immediately defend their next strike to get points.

@PhtFd

11 ай бұрын

Not completely. You cannot directly approach the opponent without neutralizing his weapon first, if it is in an extended guard, because if you did that you'd basically impale yourself on his weapon. You first have to take control of his weapon before you can attack - just like a real duel basically. This is the safest way to deliver a blow.

Damn

RAD!

Please put warning done by expert. Spar safely

They are very good, but those light swords could be masking a lot of mistakes.

@kaydens6964

Ай бұрын

What are your suggestions? Use real swords and go for the kill?

These guys are good, but I gotta say I wouldn't personally do this. I've had enough injuries requiring trips to the ER in full gear due to accidents, not willing to risk my eyes, throat, and brain for practically nothing. I do fence with just a mask and throat guard every now and then and there is definite merit to doing it, especially when you reach the intermediate level, but full gear sparring is the best way to improve your skills IMO.

🙂

heieieieiei... to many broken fingers and stitches on the head on this side. it is true, in theory, if you do it like you said, you can sparr without protection gear. but in reallity people are only human and humans make mistakes. so i only fight with at least finger- and head protection. ...but i must say, it looks good ;)

@kaizen5023

11 ай бұрын

Exactly.

@kpsiex

11 ай бұрын

feet, hands and head are all delicate things with many joints that need some protection, the rest of the body, however, who gives a shit about that, it'll heal anyway :D

Those dwords are way to light.

@Lftarded

6 күн бұрын

An average longsword only weighs about a kilo and a quarter, sometimes 2 kilos if you're a 7 ft. monster

I didn't think European weapons and fighting styles attracted any interest in Japan. Good to see it's popular with some.

@user-yp2jz5hy4d

28 күн бұрын

this is korea...

Cute pa rin. Dapat lakasan niyo pa.

Man I wouldnt do this. While I agree that this kind of training is great, I feel you can get the same quality of training while wearing safety glasses, padded gloves, And a gorget. Safety glasses and gorgets are just "Not dying" protection. and the Gloves are for the innevitable tap. You obviously arent sparring hard enough to break hands, but a good wack still hurts. EDIT: Will add though. In my group we dont wear padded jackets. I have a long sleeve shirt, and a puncture proof vest. Then Gauntlets, Gorget, Mask. So their point about the "Fear of the sword" Yeah. Shit hurts. You learn to parry real quick.

Few words said there are little far fetched / pretencious, but these guys have skill! Please tell them thou to wear at least googles when doing no gear - as my coach says, eyes no teeth, won't grow back.

Hobo’s Retreat: Here we have two homeless males sparring with feder longswords. 🤣

I agree with their philosophy, but most hema schools would never go for this to be honest in my opinion.

@jaketheasianguy3307

11 ай бұрын

You don't see it on KZread very often but in alot of clubs, even well known ones, high skilled fencers chose to go full speed without any protection every once in a while. Like, almost every club have people do this, they just don't like to film it for the internet You can even see Martin Fabian do something similar with Anton Kohutovic in his En Guard video

@jessmith7324

11 ай бұрын

@@jaketheasianguy3307 Thats interesting. My club is very much against it because They've seen too many accidents happen with it

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

@Jes smith732 in boxing, they have things called "smoker matches", basically closed door unsanctioned and often barenuckle bouts for bragging rights and skill. It often works like this in HEMA clubs. You make a few like minded friends of advanced skill and do this after the beginner class has gone home.

Try to at least protect your eyes, a little mistake can be very expensive.

"please don't try this at home" me about to show this to my instructors and suggest we do something similar more often😅

@dustf1nger118

9 ай бұрын

That would work if everyone in the club have good control over their strikes and patience. Trust is essential and I don't know if I trust any of my club mates other than 1 person I know.

@badrequest5596

9 ай бұрын

@@dustf1nger118 same with me, i would only try this with one person because i know he can have a lot of self control. and is also very good. but i think we'd still wear masks and at least soft gloves

This is both impressive and stupid at the same time.

I quit HEMA because everyone around me was so safety conscious that they refused to spar without full competition kit. It created a system whereby pure aggression and speed won any and every match. I argued that a modicum of restraint would be required by at least removing hard plates on elbows and platoons in gambesons, but I was forced to go up against people STILL wearing SCA-style steel gauntlets.

@jakubkuczynski683

11 ай бұрын

Oh so you are a swordfish champion?

Easterners doing European martial arts arguably better from a certain point of view LOL Someone needs to show this video to Matt Easton and Martin Fabian and get their professional opinions. I'd pay for it

Круто. Но без защиты - дурачки.

I still find this type of practice borderline suicidal😱

I don't like the no helmet sparring for two reasons. 1 is safety. Oppsies happen. And oppsies on the head is more catastrophic than elsewhere. 2 is that it doesn't do what the stated goal of doing that exercise is. You CAN NOT target the head...especially with a thrust. That changes the fight incredibly. Be naked if you want...but wear a helmet.

The sequence from 1:30 onward is very telling. While this video and many commenters claim that this kind of sparring teaches you to respect the sword and your opponent, this is swinging the pendulum in the other direction far too much. Guy on the right does not oppose his opponent and just lets him do whatever he wants, no taking control let alone even trying to parry, in FULL GEAR. If this is your training method, and those are your results, the moment you fence with people who ACTUALLY full contact spar, you'd be cut to ribbons (figuratively). There is a reason why HEMA is successfully recreating HEMA and that is full contact sparring. No gear sparring is a thing of the past and should be relegated mostly to history and as a supplemental material. If they have had the kind of gear we have now, they probably never would have sparred without it.

I am strictly against this ideology. It is important to gain contact sensitivity and a sense of self preservation while fencing to counteract artifacts in your training, but removing gear to represent an outward expression of mastery is an invitation for injury. There's nothing to be proven or gained by fighting unsafely.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

How do you gain contact sensitivity and a sense of self preservation against a resisting opponent by other means? I'd really like to know, in all earnestness. I've never seen another method in 15+ years of martial arts.

I think sparring without protective gear would make you develop habits that are just for fun & not effective. Which is fine: nobody's running around with a sword anymore & it's probably a fun way to exercise. But if your goal is for habits to make you the most effective strategist possible, wearing protective gear at least on the head & playing for kill shots probably makes more sense.

@biterlames3220

11 ай бұрын

No. Rather, if you wear protective gear, you will believe in protective gear and make movements that you cannot do in a real sword battle.

@jephilologist

11 ай бұрын

Opposite. Developing habits with protective gear and playing for kill shots is the non-realistic sport. Just look at Olympic fencing. It's like drilling how to die. Keeping a healthy fear towards a bladed implement is more real. You don't need a kill shot. All you need is to tap their wrist with your sharp thing. If they still come at you, then send them off.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

As the others have said, it's the opposite. Real swords cut and kill with very little force. In reality, 90% of HEMA groups bludgeon and club each other with way too much force and try to strike Lichtenauer poses in between swings.

@zekerozell4060

11 ай бұрын

So, as someone who fences and has for a while, the above comments overly generalize things. Sure protective gear can make people over confident, but like, we know that? It isn't that hard to train around. What is hard to train around is the habits that form from doing only no gear sparring. Essentially, no gear sparring requires you to pull your strikes, and it makes thrusting a much less safe (and therefore viable) strike to train. I would go on, but it's 4 am and this is a KZread comment

@zekerozell4060

11 ай бұрын

Also, wearing full gear doesn't mean getting hit doesn't hurt. It's still a metal bar being swung at you. Bruises are common even with gear.

I commend their skill, but their cavalier attitude towards safety leaves me cold. I've seen training accidents where only the use of protective gear have saved the participants from injury. A responsible teacher, or team leader takes into account everything that CAN happen, rather than what he thinks will happen. Plan for failure because both, humans and equipment, eventually fail. If someone in this group suffers an accident there is no way you can explain it to a judge that won't end up in a charge of gross negligence. When you assume the role of teacher or team leader in a group like this you assume a sacred duty to look out for your people's safety as if they were in your family.

sick!

"I will never be in a car crash simply because I won't ever be in the situation where that would happen or that I suddenly need to break." Put a mask/gloves on, at the very least.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

"I am aware of the risks involved in driving and accept them in order to gain what I want out of it." That's how you really live, isn't it? It's brake, by the way.

@ordinarymodder905

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 Yeah but literally everything they do in this video you can with a mask and a helmet. Just because you acknowledged the risk of a car, doesn't make wearing a seat belt not reckless. It also trains you to always pull attacks instead of following through incase of injuring your opponent. The point is that its reckless and takes every little protective equipment to make it a lot safer and a more effective as a training tool.

First

To all the people giving unsolicited advice with regards to these folks' collective choice to spar without gear, please fucking stop. The obsession with safety and policing other people's behaviors with respect to safety is infantilizing, authoritarian bullshit. If they feel comfortable sparring with no gear, understanding full well the risk of injury, it's their choice and their bodies on the line. Worry about your own safety, and let other informed, consenting adults do as they please.

@rodjjt7742

11 ай бұрын

You're probably making a bigger deal deal out of people's comments than is necessary. Authoritarian? It's not that serious.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Too damned right, man. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

@Rod JJT it's a small authoritarianism, but it's an attitude that absolutely permeates HEMA and martial arts in general. It's insufferable and it drives people away.

@robinmarks4771

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 Exactly.

@rodjjt7742

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 I get what you're saying. Yeah, the know it all attitude is a problem in martial arts.

They can say it's safe all they want. I still don't like it. As clearly skilled as these two are, all it takes is one mistake to lose an eye.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Good thing it's them doing it and not you, I guess.

This is dumb

First off just wear a helmet idc about the rest I've seen fencers accidently lose their vision having their helmet off when they should've had it on. And why be scared of the sword when you already are afraid of the sword because it means points?? Unless we are preparing to go back into a time machine there's no reason to conquer the fear of a sword hitting you.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

Why practice at all? It's about better approximating the martial art as it was practiced by people who did fence each other with sharp swords. Points don't mean much when sparring. You don't get them in sparring matches.

@viktor_murcy

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 u right if they r doing it for historical purposes, I just hope nobody sees it and does it thinking it's actually a better way to train. Ig not points but ppl win a duel in hema already based on their hit and if they also get hit and afterblows. So if u want to win u already have to worry about the sword even if u get a hit

I like this channel, but sparring with swords with no face protection is idiotic.

@tsoliot5913

11 ай бұрын

You've never done it, eh?

@stepheninczech

11 ай бұрын

@@tsoliot5913 I fenced. Metal practice swords get knicks and spurs on them that can cut you fairly well. That's not even getting into the eye danger.