The Flintglock

@Mygg_Jeager

4 жыл бұрын

Underrated Comment.

@claytonj2695

4 жыл бұрын

The folt

@davephillips9389

3 жыл бұрын

Can't even imagine cleaning this thing. Would have to have precision tools to do that (well for that time at least, tool set as much as gun set)

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

@@davephillips9389 A set of wire brushes is really all you need, ranging from barrel scrubs to q-tip style scrapers. Probably custom made for each gun. Probably wouldn't take much longer than 20-25 minutes, as compared to the 3 minutes it takes to clean firearms today lol.

@davephillips9389

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mygg_Jeager And the internals that will get fouled and you need the tools to take it apart :)

"Pull the lever, Kronk!" *Lorenzoni explodes* "Wrong LEVERRRRR"

@ianfinrir8724

3 жыл бұрын

Why do we even *have* that lever!?

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

LOL

I'm imagining pirates drooling over this gun in a 1700's gun magazine.

@DaveSmith-cp5kj

7 жыл бұрын

I'm sure some got it mail ordered too. Lucky dogs! Probably also mounted their tactical lanterns to blind their enemies with a strobe effect.

@indiomoustafa2047

5 жыл бұрын

Dave Smith Don't forget the under mountd cutlass.

@NotNewButYork

4 жыл бұрын

@@indiomoustafa2047 yarr, in camo gold! Just like me ship, so that the scurvy dogs won’t find me

@AshleyPomeroy

4 жыл бұрын

I can imagine them arguing about shot placement and "those new Italian wonder-36-bores".

@ChipmunkRapidsMadMan1869

3 жыл бұрын

Louis L’Amour’s Barnibus Sackett liberated two of these from a pirate hoard. His son Jubal used them. Those novels take place in the 1600s .

It's fascinating to me how these guns would have been made by hand, without power tools or electricity. I wonder how many hours of effort went into each of these guns, not even counting the decorations.

@zsewqthewolf1194

5 жыл бұрын

i would love to buy this if they re make this with today tools

@MurrayC

4 жыл бұрын

Robert Hooke was making watches in the late 17th century. Precision machining was starting to be doable bootstrapped by horologists making machines to make it easier to make better machines to make watches. Amazing achievement still.

@Ass_of_Amalek

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's quite likely that many gunsmiths were using water power for some operations (from a wheel in a creek or river) for a couple hundred years before steam engines. so there were SOME power tools, probably including saws, primitive lathes, and mills. it's already massively helpful to just be able to make something spin with some force to ahape round parts as if you were wood turning, as opposed to trying to make something round without rotating it.

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ass_of_Amalek And don't forget the common potters wheel and wood lathe, powered by assistants using foot pedals.

@pomponi0

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure they would've used water wheels.

I'm waiting to hear Ian say this: "Next week, I'll be showing you a gun that I bet you have never heard of. It was made in 1705, it's a development of the Lorenzoni system that is self cocking via a gas pressure system. Yes, it's a full auto, wheel lock, from 1705. The inlay and engraving is out of this world. See you next week, here on Forgotten Weapons."

@dmitryskliarenko2451

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/pHepuK-xZcuXqJM.html

@spencerpearson1321

3 жыл бұрын

@@dmitryskliarenko2451 NGL I’m kind of disappointed this isn’t a rickroll.

@hoppinggnomethe4154

2 жыл бұрын

@@dmitryskliarenko2451 damn, I expected it to be those weird Muslim video from bots, but it turned out to be a Forgotten Weapons video

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

@@hoppinggnomethe4154 I know right? The f*ck is up with all those? Lol

"The gun will then explode, and do really bad things to your hand." lol I love it when he points this stuff out

@andrewlaco1776

4 жыл бұрын

South paw problems.

@AtlasJotun

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewlaco1776 As in you'll be a southpaw after a poorly-made example takes your right hand (or at least some fingers) off? Yeah, probably.

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

@@AtlasJotun There are no historical accounts of these ever exploding. They required a Trade Guild's Seal of a Approval before you were allowed to commission and make these kinds of weapons. And over the centuries, dozens of Gunsmiths produced hundreds of them, seeing service in the Danish Military during the Scanian War.

@dcurry7287

2 жыл бұрын

I love how Ian typically uses the KZread-friendly phrase "...and then bad things happen to whoever the barrel is pointed at". This was a great reversal!

"From this side, it looks like your typical assault-lock repeating side clipazine"

@lucifer2b666

4 жыл бұрын

@Love Law He's making a joke about anti-gunners.

@malo9792

3 жыл бұрын

@@lucifer2b666 im 93% sure this was a joke about how insanely complicated this mechanism is.

@qwormuli77

2 жыл бұрын

@@malo9792 Nope, definite fudd pisstake.

What's the earliest firearm you've seen? The very early firearms developments are so interesting, especially during the 16th century; mug cartridge breech-loading guns - only ever seen the degraded salvage from the Mary Rose (triple barrel cannon, swivel guns, some lantern shields that apparently contained pistols).

@RockIslandAuctionCompany

8 жыл бұрын

I know this question was meant for Ian, but in case it's of interest... The earliest firearms we see around here regularly are typically matchlocks (more often of Japanese design), though we do also receive some hand cannons from time to time.

So it's an assault flintlock? On a more serious note, that really is an amazing piece of craftsmanship and ingenuity.

@qwormuli77

2 жыл бұрын

Fully semi-selfloading.

You could use these in a screen adaptation of Louis L'Amour's book "Jubal Sackett." L'Amour had a fondness for putting rare and unusual historical firearms in his books -- in one he has the protagonist acquire a Ferguson rifle, and in another, the main character uses a Walch 12-shot revolver. In "Jubal Sackett" the titular character, who is a 17th century frontiersman, has a matched pair of Lorenzoni pistols, though the ones in the story were made by an Italian, rather than an English gunsmith. I'd love to see someone make a reproduction Lorenzoni, but given the complexity, and given how closely fitted the parts have to be to prevent a flashover from igniting the powder magazine (and the attendant liability concerns) we probably never will see it happen.

@Mygg_Jeager

4 жыл бұрын

You forget that aircraft engine precision is a thing. We could easily manufacturer these in a factory environment to 0.0001" of precision, lol.

@Jeremiah90526

4 жыл бұрын

@@Mygg_Jeager Easily to .1 mil precision, that is an exaggeration. 1 mil of precision is fairly easy, beyond that is specialized equipment. But, 1 mil is way more precision than is necessary for this, so agree that they can be fairly easily produced.

@Hibernicus1968

Жыл бұрын

@@Mygg_Jeager I don't forget anything. I understand that kind of precision is possible. But I also understand that the United States is the most litigious society on earth in the 21st century. I think a company's lawyers would take one look at this and say "nope," just because of the _possibility_ of flashover, and what would happen if it occurred. Everyone is terrified of liability these days. If there were enough market demand, it might very well overcome that fear, but most people, even ones knowledgeable about firearms, have never heard of the Lorenzoni system, and people can't demand what they don't even know about, so....

@Mygg_Jeager

Жыл бұрын

@@Hibernicus1968 Well now you're just talking out your ass because there are companies that manufacture functional replicas of these, in the EU and USA.

@Mygg_Jeager

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeremiah90526 If by "specialized equipment" you mean gyro stabilized CNC machines, then yeah. Those are kinda everywhere in the 21st century lol. Every modem shop has at least 1, often 2 or 3.

Hypothetically this would make loading very easy. There's no need to pre-pack a pistol cartridge, bite, spit, pour into the pan, then down the barrel, stuff, ram, return, then give fire. If one carried a flask of black powder, and a sack of loose ammunition balls then they could probably within 20 seconds about the time it took to load one musket, already have 7 shots and powder reloaded. Perhaps adding the additional side mounted belt prong clip to put it away, or a sheath for it, & even a spring loaded bayonet. This could be a very nice close quarters weapon. I could definitely see this on some sort of noble officer in the grenadier guards or something.

@agurjaunak

6 жыл бұрын

provided at time frame, there was a bunch of experienced gunsmiths in order to manufacturing that hypothetically self loading black powder rifle, and of course any party wanting to pursues the said rifle have to be exremely rich. Which means, the self-loading rifle would a specialized items, means to provided nothing sort of King's man bodyguard corps.

@58jharris

5 жыл бұрын

@oron61 he explained why. It was expensive to make and required a master gunsmith to make it or else it was unsafe to fire.

@luansagara

4 жыл бұрын

you are not meant to spit in any step of the loading process. why would you want to risk making the powder wet?

@AtlasJotun

3 жыл бұрын

@@luansagara He's referring to paper cartridges containing the loading components, which were generally torn open with one's teeth. One would then spit out the bit of paper on the ground. Here's a crusty old potato-vision video from 2007 of a chap with a Brown Bess demonstrating the technique quite rapidly: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hX6BxNqTYc6ffrQ.html

@jamesseale7686

2 жыл бұрын

@@luansagara You need to spit the paper out of your mouth and on to the ground.

I would imagine that a high humidity day would probably cause the powder to clump some if the pistol hadn't been freshly loaded. :)

@amperzand9162

8 жыл бұрын

Or, god forbid, actual rain.

This is the most ingenious gun I've ever seen for the 18th century, it's like a bullet maker lol.

Those are fantastic. It’s hard to comprehend the workmanship it took to make something so intricate in pre- industrial Europe.

Ingenious system. I wander why was it never perfected, this system could be used to completely avoid any casing on the bullet!

@TheZombieburner

7 жыл бұрын

Things get forgotten and cast aside when they shouldn't be sometimes.

@Martin-zg7hx

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheZombieburner true

@shibo8707

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe some issues on thr battlefield. Remember first prussian rifles wich they wanted as single shot to not cover doir view with to much powder smoke.

@wildrangeringreen

3 жыл бұрын

@@shibo8707 and the fact that paper Dreyse cartridges don't do well in a magazine? It was improved, they're called "kammerlader" (chamber loaders). having a cartridge loading, single shot weapon, or a revolving cylinder of chambers was much cheaper and safer than this, and took inspiration from the rotating breech idea. Revolvers took some inspiration from this idea, with Wheeler & Collier patent flintlock arms (which , in turn, inspired Sam Colt, who's improvements inspired the Wesson Bro's, Adams, and the Remingtons). Post 1770 or so, intellectual property rights became a big deal, and commercial firearms development basically revolved around everyone chasing each other's improvements and working around patents or waiting for patents to expire, and then adopting that improvement. That is why most commercial firearms designed after 1950 or so are almost identical in function and design, the patents are expired and everyone is using everyone else's improvements.

@Ass_of_Amalek

2 жыл бұрын

well, besides the issues of safety and machining quality mentioned in the video, I'm sure you can load cartriges or even hand-load single shots much more precisely than by relying on gravity to fill a consistent amount of powder without visually checking it, so the lorennzoni system probably delivers pretty inconsistent velocities and thus bad accuracy or sometimes even insufficient penetration.

Those things sometimes converted themselves from firearms into grenades

@powderslinger5968

4 жыл бұрын

Rarely, as they were only made by the best gunsmiths.

@Mygg_Jeager

4 жыл бұрын

@@powderslinger5968 How would we know? For self explanatory reasons, there are no surviving examples of cheaply made pistol-grenades... ;)

@kino_61

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mygg_Jeager because they have no such reputation, the pistol might blow up but the beople around the shooter and maybe even the shooter survive

@Mygg_Jeager

2 жыл бұрын

@@kino_61 So I've read about these extensively and there are absolutely zero reported instances of these exploding. Between 1620 - 1730, there was an absolute minimum of 19 recorded gunsmiths who were recognized and certified to produce these weapons for elite military units of the Danish Empire and Holy Roman Empire. They've even been documented as having been used in the Scanian War, with no reported failures. It seem reasonable to extrapolate that there simply were NO cheap varieties of these having been made, as it required a Guild or Trade Seal of Approval to commission and fabricate them. These were top notch weapons for top notch soldiers, and came at a top notch price.

Messier Lorenzonis, thou art a genius! And Messier Ian , I humbly raise my hat and bow in astonishment! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Elegant, ingenious - that's what I love about the design and engineering you so brilliantly demonstrate and explain on this channel.

this is incredible! I had no idea that any repeating Flint/wheel lock firearms even existed!

Funny how the ingenuity of people who've lived hundreds of years ago can still amaze you today. First time I've ever seen that system explained and while the mechanics involved are pretty incredible, I gotta agree that this doesn't seem like the safest firearm (for the shooter). I wonder how common accidents were with these types of guns and what they would've been used for. I can't imagine this being an effective weapon in combat - I'd worry about the magazine "leaking" or the mechanism jamming or, indeed, about the gun blowing up in my hand. Plus it was probably way too expensive for the common soldier.

@extrastuff9463

8 жыл бұрын

It was probably a well understood dangerous mechanism. But when you're in a situation where you need multiple shots and the only real option at the time is to carry 2 or 3 pistols... or one of these and perhaps a sword in addition it'd probably be worth it to the rich able to afford it (not to mention confuse his opponents after he discharges his single barrel pistol and then proceeds to shoot at them again).

@Craitash

5 жыл бұрын

This was actually a common strategy as repeating rifles came into their own; you fire one shot, the enemy charges, you use the rest of your shots to drop them.

The cookson rifle was demonstrated by cookson in a thunderstorm to show it was waterproof, he was then struck by lightning after 3 shots

My grandma was a Kaltoft, a direct descendant of the Kaltoft you cite. So fun to see the mechanism etc

+Forgotten Weapons Heh, what a coincidence. I've been talking with a friend just yesterday and we got down to not being able to figure out why there were no repeating or revolving mechanisms around, to help with the whole muzzle-loading early guns. From a technical point of view, the mechanics and principles should have been known and understood since at least when the Antikythera mechanism was built and it seems painfully obvious to offload the long loading cycle to a mechanism, resulting in an increased RoF, especially in military terms. Thanks for providing the answers to the question we never asked to you and also supplying an example of such a potential mechanism at the same time. You are awesome. And apparently a psychic ;)

This is the "Forgotten Weapons" video that I've enjoyed most so far, and I've seen quite a damn lot of them they're great. Very interesting.

Those flintlocks are amazing masterpiece IMHO.

Like a cannon you'd have to make sure that it was completely extinguished Sono burning embers remained when you introduce the fresh powder to the chamber

Wow that's an amazing piece in terms of mechanisms and the artwork!

This is without a doubt my favorite channel.

3:06 LoL the funniest part "they don't wanna let me load emo up in here..

Lindas verdadeiras obras de arte.

Ha, only a week ago i asked for a video of the Kalthoff rifle/musket, and here i have it! Well not a kalthoff, but darn close! You deliver the goods, Ian!

@ulrikschackmeyer848

4 жыл бұрын

So I take, from the Dannebrog in your thumb, that you know of the 50 'kunstrør' ('artsy pipes' ) that 'Tøjmester' Kalthoff (Master of the Royal Armoury) in Copenhagen produced for the Royal Guards on Foot in 1658 used agains the attacking Swedes? And that the Royal Guards discarted them as 'being to fickle'? Did you check the video from Tøjhusmuseet, about the Kalthoff? If you hafe an interest in the periode, 1657-60, I would love to chat.

since i saw your first video about that gun some years ago, i always wondered about the priming charge :D thank you very much for a second view on guns like these!

Wonderful look at a unique gun, thanks for the update on a gun not often seen.

This is amazing never knew about this kind of system and always wondered if they did try to make some sort of repeating firearm before the 19 century. It seems like everything that's ever been done with firearms has been tried before, thanks Ian

Love that reference there, Ringo. Best channel on KZread.

It's great to be a subscriber to such a cool channel. Keep up the awesome work you do Ian ;)

That degree of ingenuity is just amazing ! What a tremendous advantage it would give someone in those days ! I'm truly awestruck ! ! ! THANKS 🙂😎👍

This is so mind blowing.. imagine this is the result of a single gunsmith not a corporation or anybody today who already knows the concept of repeating firearms.

@trikepilot101

6 жыл бұрын

Well, the concept was around for one hundred years before this example was made...

Most early verison of auto guns bruh this guy master at work

Simply amazing! I'd never heard of anything like this, just brilliant!

with guns like this that have some way of internal loading and the lead ball rolls free how do they stop the ball rolling out of the barrel when its tilted

@ForgottenWeapons

8 жыл бұрын

The ball stops when it hits the rifling, until the pressure of firing presses it down the barrel.

@Lucius1958

4 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons I had wondered whether these were rifled, or if they simply had a slight 'shoulder' between the chamber and barrel, as on the screw-barrel pistols.

Mommy, I want to buy an Ian, heard there's going to be a everything auction in RIA!

Excellent video Ian (as usual). I once owned a Ruger Old Army cap and ball revolver and I always made sure that there was an ample amount of Vaseline covering each loaded port in the cylinder so as to prevent flashback, thus igniting any other chambers that shouldn't have been ignited during firing. I don't think I would feel comfortable using a firearm like the abovementioned without the thought going through my head regarding such 'flashback'. I'm happy that you brought up this point during the video. Great work and thanks for your wonderful videos. I've even put links to your KZread channel on my website because of your great information for firearms enthusiasts like myself.

@ianfinrir8724

3 жыл бұрын

There's a reason it didn't catch on.

This is the stuff I love, the genius simplicity of it.

other guns: complex loading and feeding mechanisms this gun: G R A V I T Y

the Kalthoff repeating muskets (not rifles) were manufactured by the Kalthoffs, a Danish gunsmith family in an area of slesvig-holstein, that is now a part of Germany. At the time, that area was Danish.

@Andraan

8 жыл бұрын

I would love to see a video on the Kalthoff repeating muskets if you guys can get your hands on one, there is very little information on these guns online, and the mechanism is quite stunningly genius. Most beautiful gun I've ever held

@ForgottenWeapons

8 жыл бұрын

I would like to, but I've never seen one in person.

@iobey

5 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons There's also one in Livrustkammaren, a museum in Sweden. There's another one in Windsor Castle.

@carlkolthoff5402

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, that is correct. They originated from the Kultenhof Estate near Dänischehagen in what is today the northwestern part of Germany. I'm in fact an ancestor of that metallurgy specialist family of foundry owners and gun smiths. (Kolthoff / Kalthoff - different branches of the same family). I've never seen one of those rifles myself. The ones still existing today are either royal collectables, museum pieces or both. The ones I know of are in Denmark, Sweden, Russia and England. My guess is there are probably a few less known specimens in Germany and France too, although unconfirmed. Anyway - just wanted to say thank you to Forgotten Weapons for mentioning my family and keep up the good work!

wow that's a pretty ingenious mechanism for the time, great video

Heard of these. Nice to see them. Best

Guns like these make me want to start collecting guns.

@Beltzer0072

4 жыл бұрын

Don't do it! They're like potato chips but worse lol!

@ianfinrir8724

3 жыл бұрын

You can't collect *just* one...

This gun is amazing especially for the 1700s, I wonder how well they actually worked. Seems like a lot of things could go wrong for a system that has so much going on.

The progression of firearms that led up to repeaters is fascinating.

Wow. This was a brilliant idea for the time. A multiple shot flintlock! Who would’ve thought?!

That is amazing tech. Beautiful weapon.

that's really cool! I thought the Henry was the first repeater, though I'm happy to know that they had actually make a flintlock repeater

Beautiful pair of pistoles for sure.

This is like designing a robot to shift gears for you in your stick shift rather than designing an automatic transmission.

Amazes me that such contraptions could be made to work at all.

Very cool. I was completely unaware of these.

A superb explanation......makes me wish I could own one...and of course Iain at the same time......

This is a super cool design.

always fun to see clever engineering at work :)

Semi auto assault flintlock. Lol this one of the coolest things I've seen

@amperzand9162

8 жыл бұрын

Well, lever action assault flintlock.

Great video as always Ian.:D

Those seem like they were literally 100 years ahead of the technology of the time, awesome engineering, never seen this style anywhere before!

Thanks for the gun history lesson!

This is freaking genius

I found it interesting how I was watching this video amazed with the ingenuity of the pistols on a cell phone I don't give a second thought to.

As always awesome job. Thanks much!

Very interesting! Great video!

wow, what a cool system.

A work of art

Very nice engineering for its time 👍👍

Workmanship was just insanely beautiful back then. We've lost a lot through mass production

That's a SNAPHANCE of an idea, so early on. It would prove to be right up there with a Monty Python dueling sense of humor. That is to say, if given the proper distance between duelist, as to allow misses between feverishly winding shots. -gilpin 9-7-16

I think it's funny there was a rifle version of this from around the 1600s but ohhh the founding fathers could never have predicted that guns would shoot faster.

These make me wanna write a story where these were actually used extensively and use a bit of fictional magic to make them actually viable.

I was actually just thinking of doing something like this a few weeks ago; chambers on a gun for powder and bullets. My idea would not have been this elegant. Good to know it was pre-patent, so I can just copy their method. he he he

The amusing thing is that a pair of pistols is usually a dueling set. Would have been QUITE a duel with both contestants firing off five to seven shots, fiddling and cursing at their levers and shaking their guns to every which side feverishly.

awesome vid. i wanted to ask that perhaps another reason the spindle is brass is to prevent any unwanted sparks?

After one set loads fired, this intricate system would take some hours of thorough cleaning. But. many of these fancy guns were never used, they were "show off" guns, as are many modern ones, too.

Simple and elegant.

....personal weapons of a 17th century rambo

Loved the tombstone ref

Cool design.

There's a guy here on KZread who has made a repeating .22 somewhat like this but with electrical ignition. It's really pretty cool

This is simply amazing! Is there any information on who commissioned these?

I love this old guns there so cool.

From shooting flintlocks I struggle to believe this would work for more than a few shots before the fouling totally seized all the systems up.

That's really neat!

I love it when you have the chance to do those more esoteric weapons. Do you think those could have been ordered for dueling since there is a pair of them?

@RockIslandAuctionCompany

8 жыл бұрын

Perhaps though not likely. Dueling often had numerous rules involved that often changed by location and even per combatants. That said, shots of opposing duelists often happened in rounds, the number varying for the offense. Sometimes only a single volley was exchanged. Repeaters would've thrown a big wrench in either scenario.

@Jorvard

8 жыл бұрын

Why have a dueling weapon that is designed to allow for "rapid" fire?

@willsmith1170

8 жыл бұрын

+Jorvard I suppose it certainly would have made things more interesting.

@1950cappie

8 жыл бұрын

Maybe to shoot the opponents second so as to avoid any further negotiations of rules? (jk)

@mekaerwin7187

8 жыл бұрын

One ball for every time your honor was offended that day. And everyone knows that for an English Gentleman, that could still not be enough.

When is the mud test video coming out? (Nice Tombstone reference btw!)

I found this to be fascinating, I'd never heard of anything like this before. It would be interesting to know how must faster this would be to load versus a single shot flintlock pistol of the same time period. Given the age of these two I'd rather use a modern replica to do the test. Regardless, thanks for sharing these pistols, very interesting.

Here's a thought: add a rack-and-pinion, to a reciprocating forearm. Slide-action flintlock.

Nice Tombstone reference. Props.

I was hoping you would do another video about this type of flintlock ;)

I have one of these from my heritage. Thinking of donating it to a museum or sell it. Unsure. It's covered in silver lines.

Finally, a British weapon.

@joelhall3820

8 жыл бұрын

A British weapon...apparently designed by a German and perfected by an Italian...

@cult8625

8 жыл бұрын

+Joel TheJackle rekt

@ollilehtonen6351

8 жыл бұрын

+Joel TheJackle thats cold.😂

@ironanvil1

8 жыл бұрын

There are tons of British weapons on Ian's channel - he's got about four different Webley semi-autos alone.

@erebostd

5 жыл бұрын

@@ironanvil1 you mean consealed attack-pliers? That's what's the brits carry these days (the poor bastards) www.dailywire.com/news/29224/heres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois

outstanding!

*steampunk intensifies* Looks something a vampire hunter wouldve carried in those times... Would love to see Ian in late 19th century clothing and a monocle, next time he reviews a 18th or 19th century oddball like this, or that weird revolver he did on sunday

i am surprised they did not go for more, just cause they are so rare, and unusual.