Once the pilot declared an emergency it is the responsibility of the controller to treat it as an emergency. The time to decide if it should have been one is when the plane is on the ground and safe. If you can't do that you have no business being a controller.

@julianturecek2373

22 күн бұрын

Incorrect. Once you declare an emergency, it’s the controller’s responsibility to ascertain the nature of the emergency so as to determine how best to assist. Being in IMC and weather isn’t an emergency, unless you’re non instrument rated. In which case just say so, you stuffed up, own it. Declaring an emergency just to get vectors for a visual, and getting shirty if you don’t get them, is really poor.

@johncarter1137

22 күн бұрын

@@julianturecek2373 There's a lot of assuming going on everywhere on this one, in the control tower, in the airplane, and in the comments.

@davestillson2269

22 күн бұрын

Wrong

@insomnia20422

18 күн бұрын

100% agree. Giving him an attitude shows how unprofessional that controller is. He isnt the one that would be crushed to pieces when he falls out of the sky...

@lalochivafan

10 күн бұрын

You’re slightly incorrect here. Yes, the controller will treat it as an emergency however the air traffic controller has standard operating procedures that go with that such as ascertaining the nature of the emergency. The thing I don’t understand is why the pilot was calling the beacon in sight. As an atp rated pilot with over 5 type ratings, I can assure you that I wouldn’t call the field or the beacon in sight if I wasn’t comfortable doing the visual. The pilot failed to call the field in sight with the intention of landing which is what the controller was asking for. So the pilot says he has the beacon in sight…it is then reasonable that the controller will clear him for the visual approach. For the pilot to get snarky about getting a clearance is out of line, not professional and escalates the situation. On another note…if an instrument rated pilot, takes off on an ifr flight plan and then proceeds to declare an emergency over light rain, light turbulence and IMC? Maybe you shouldn’t be taking off in IMC to begin with? Anytime there’s clouds…boom there’s moisture. Anytime there’s clouds, boom there’s turbulence. Anytime there’s clouds? Boom there’s loss of visibility. This is such an odd thing to declare an emergency over. I would be surprised if the FAA doesn’t send him a letter in the mail explaining himself. He may want to lawyer up to. Last thing you want as a pilot is the FAA pouring over your records with a magnifying glass.

In an emergency the workload and stress is high and the pilot just needs a heading and and altitude because he can't cope with much more. Telling him information charlie is no good, read him the charlie, weather, wind, temp, runway in use, QFE, don't expect the pilot to tune into ATIS whilst he's dealing with an emergency and its no time for a controller to get pissy

@robbroere1384

22 күн бұрын

It would have helped that the pilot just declared that he is in IMC like conditions but does not have an IFR license. I had it once, 40 years ago as a novice PPL pilot with limited instrument training, when the weather just dropped to 300Ft cloud base. I declared an emergency stated my situation to ATC and got a dedicated Air Traffic controller assigned just for me who vectored me into Amsterdam Schiphol Airport. no ATIS, Frequency changes, just vectors and altitude changes. Very relieved to see these approach lights breaking out of the clouds at 250ft. Then spend 1 hr being questioned on my flight preparation and as given the all clear having done every thing right, read did the right preparation and declaring an emergency.

@Airtraffic101

22 күн бұрын

The pilot is asking for vectors and an altitude assignment to avoid clouds. This is not an emergency. The controller is unable to see the clouds… it is the pilots job to see and avoid. The pilot is way out of line.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@robbroere1384this was a CFII with a student on an instrument flight plan. They had just taken off, so ATIS “Charlie” was the same he left with. Basically, ATC confirmed with him that nothing had changed. The pilot was no longer in an emergency situation. They had gotten into severe turbulence and dropped a wing 50°. Now he was out that. He should’ve accepted the ILS, but instead, wanted the controller to fly his airplane. Pilot was wrong here.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@Airtraffic101right.

@davidkelly7831

21 күн бұрын

@@Airtraffic101 he said mayday mayday mayday, so it was declared as an emergency and clearly felt like an emergency to him. I don't think it's the controllers job to disagree with that at the time. Those type of conversations are best had on the ground afterwards

It’s obvious the pilot had entered inadvertent IMC, which is very easy when over the ocean. I don’t know the amount of instrumentation or whether the aircraft was IFR capable. Even if it is, if the pilot doesn’t have an instrument qualification or isn’t current, it is an emergency. Once he declared an emergency, the controller should do everything he can to assist the pilot. In this case the controller pretty much treated the guy as if he was an airline pilot until the pilot asked him to take a deep breath. The controller then got frustrated and began bullying the pilot with fast communications and correcting on his altitude. There is no need for it. One thing controllers hate to hear but is absolutely true is that they support the pilots, not the other way around. Controllers wouldn’t have a job if there were no pilots. So it’s important that controllers, who are vital to safe aviation operations, provide assistance to pilots rather than try to be the boss of pilots.

@julienb5815

18 күн бұрын

It's obvious, but unless I'm mistaken he never said it. I mean, instead of dancing around the nature of his emergency, he could just have said he can't fly IFR and the conditions are IMC. End of the story and then the controller won't be trying to give him an ILS approach like he did, among other things. That said, yup that controller sure could have been more understanding and helpful

@insomnia20422

18 күн бұрын

And theres also a tiny little bit more on the line for the pilots up there thousands of feet in the sky in comparison to the controller who sits in his more or less comfy chair...

@josephroberts6865

18 күн бұрын

@@julienb5815at the .30 sec of the video the pilot declares an emergency.

@julienb5815

17 күн бұрын

​@@josephroberts6865 I'm well aware of that, but he never says what the problem is. When eventually asked at 1:05, he says rain and turbulence... Later on around 2:45, there's again talks about turbulence and the nature of the emergency. Again a missed opportunity to talk about IMC and not being able to fly IFR, he makes it sound like there was simply a bit too much wind...

@sgtjonzo

15 күн бұрын

​​@@julienb5815controller has a massive ego problem, dude asked for a vector, he gave him a vor, and making him find the atis himself is purely idiotic, he's clearly annoyed about having to deal with this, knowing the nature of the emergency wouldn't have changed anything about how this controller acted

When I flew at that airport, the owner of the school warned me that Maui is a training location for new controllers.

Both parties need LOTS of additional training, especially Mr. Attitude (the ATC controller).

This controller is absolutely awful for emergencies. Most certainly one of the last people I want managing the safety of people's lives both in the air and on the ground...

Wow. Everybody to time out! This is quite a demonstration of the escalation of tensions between a pilot and a controller when communications get muddied. The pilot may have been overreacting out of fear - fear is quite real when finding oneself in IMC with what seems to be limited capability to fly in it. The controller sounded annoyed that he had an increased workload but should remember that he is sitting at a desk safe and sound while the pilot needs help.

Completely understandable - ATC couldn't catch any waves earlier in the day.

Very odd exchange on both ends. An ILS approach might have been the better option.

I remember this one, but forget when. Can you please refresh me? I’m also curious what became of the controller since then

@thomasdalton1508

18 күн бұрын

We pretty much never find out what happened to the controller after an incident like this.

Can you PLEASE ALWAYS post the date / location of the incident?

@neilsingh5311

22 күн бұрын

He doesn’t want to, because most of his videos are reposts of incidents that others posted on KZread a long time ago.

@johnellis5828

22 күн бұрын

@@neilsingh5311 Then he gets the thumbsdown.

@BillHustonPodcast

21 күн бұрын

@@neilsingh5311 I think it's fine to go over historical incidents which are well-documented, as long as you're up front with us about the ESSENTIAL FACTS (who what when where why) . What ISN'T fine is NOT telling us the incident details. It LOWERS the value for me. It looks like you (video producer or staff) are trying to hide what YOU consider to be a liability.

@neilsingh5311

21 күн бұрын

@@BillHustonPodcast I’m not a video producer or staff. The hell are you on about.

@FlyTaylor

21 күн бұрын

The location is in the video, the Pilot said Kahului airport which is PHOG in Hawaii

That controller was out of line. That's how people get killed in planes, just get the plane safely to the ground and then ya'll can sort out your differences.

That controller was just waiting for his shift to end and go surfing...

@Republic3D

2 күн бұрын

He sounds like he's completely baked.

Wow! Those pretty-pink-party-frocks went waaaay over both their heads very fast!

Love it! How did you make the map and animations?

Oldie but goodie.

“Possible controller deviation. Let me know when ready to copy the phone number”.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

Except the controller did fine. Pilot was wrong here.

@michaelhall9138

21 күн бұрын

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183:Disagree. The pilot asked for vectors numerous times. All he had to do was vector the Cessna toward the airport and put him in a position to see it. Once the pilot asked for vectors again I would just have told him to expect the instrument approach. It’s not that hard. I was a controller for ~34 years at the world's busiest facility.

@sanantonio855

15 күн бұрын

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Nah telling a pilot who declared an emergency to listen to the ATIS tells me that guy was a clown

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

15 күн бұрын

@@sanantonio855 the airplane took off on an IFR flight plan, 10 minutes earlier. The same ATIS was in effect. The controller knew this. By asking if he had the ATIS, he expected the guy to say yes, not for him to listen again.

@sgtjonzo

15 күн бұрын

​@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183the guy flying the plane through a spiral descent isn't thinking with the most level headedness, keep that in mind he's going to check the atis because that is what the controller told him to do effectively

The pilot should have simply said that he was not instrument rated and needs help. The controller was totally confused

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

This was a CFII with a student on an instrument flight plan. That’s why the controller was confused. They left like 10 minutes earlier.

I agree that the controller wasn't great, but it seems a lot of people don't understand the system. He can help, he can give vectors, etc, but dude refused an instrument approach, and was unwilling to find a way to accept the visual. While I can only imagine the weather based on conversation, the controller cannot, even in an emergency accepts all responsibility for getting the airplane on the ground. A lot of comments on this video from people that think controls can wave a magic wand and get the airplane out of IMC and onto the runway.

@mellisvids

22 күн бұрын

pilot was panicking and trying to blame ATC

@jasonmcmillan6598

19 күн бұрын

the airplane involved was not equipped for IMC. The ATC is supposed to be trained to vector any plane to within 1 mile of the runway, one course for the runway with a 3 degree margin for error.

@jaylasky4313

19 күн бұрын

@@jasonmcmillan6598 vectoring to the airport doesn't not take care of the vertical. Unless they are equipped to do a PAR, which I don't know if PHOG is able. Also, I am not sure how you know if the plane was IFR capable? He was issued a visual approach, which is an instrument procedure, and the communication generally sounds as if this plane was on an IFR flight plan, as no one ever indicated inadvertent IMC.

@19Borneo67

4 күн бұрын

I think most people are like the pilot - 1. try to be helpful 2. give him some vectors. He's not asking him to land the plane.

A good chunk of this is the pilot calling the field in sight so the controller clears him for the visual. I can tell you as an ATP rated pilot with over 5 type ratings…never call the field in sight until you are confident you can land. Just don’t say anything. You’ll get re vectored. I don’t know if having the beacon in sight qualifies as an opportunity to legally clear someone for the visual but that is purely technical at this point. The pilot then gets mad because the controller understandably assumed the pilot had the field in sight. This is where the pilot is in the incorrect and I would be surprised if he didn’t get a letter from the FAA explaining why an instrument rated pilot on an instrument flight rules flight had to declare an emergency over light rain, light turbulence and IMC. Trust me, as a pilot, the last thing you want is the FAA looking over your records with a magnifying glass.

@19Borneo67

4 күн бұрын

Good controller will see past that and help rather than punishing him for it in the middle of an emergency.

Once the pilot says there is clouds and he is an emergency he should ask him if he wants visual or vectors plus he has to be helpful and read ATIS... it's an emergency not a joke

@neilkurzman4907

21 күн бұрын

The pilot is supposed to communicate to ATC. Do you know like when he said, unable earlier in the communication.

Terrible ATC controller. He needs to be suspended.

Controller shouldn't let his ego or attitude be the reason for someone's death. The pilot is in over his head, he doesn't want to be there, and he needs help to stay alive. Why risk that for your ego or correctness grounds. This is an old one, but one of the good ones out there to teach others how not to act when someone is asking you to save them. Yes the pilot needs some talking to about how to avoid IMC and such, but the last thing you want are pilots afraid to ask for help and muscle on themselves. History is full of deaths from that.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

The pilot was a CFII with a student on an IFR flight plan. This instructor is notorious for creating problems over there. The emergency was over. He was out of the severe turbulence. Then he accepted a visual approach, but lost the airport. Now the IFR rules come back. He simply didn’t communicate good enough. The controller did fine, except he sounded a bit bored.

@neilkurzman4907

21 күн бұрын

The pilot said he could see the airport, but never told the controller that he lost sight of it. The controller thought he was good to land. Turns out he wasn’t.

@neilkurzman4907

21 күн бұрын

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 The controller sound more annoyed than bored

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

21 күн бұрын

@@neilkurzman4907 right.

Ok I’m still a learning Student Pilot but correct me if I’m wrong, if the Pilot had IMC and turbulence if he’s IFR rated would you just request an IFR clearance to get you through those conditions??

@jasonkimball7617

20 күн бұрын

Depends on the turbulence, you might just want to get down. You just have to experience severe turbulence in a small plane by yourself.

@19Borneo67

4 күн бұрын

Try it when you're upside down after IIMC in turbulence.

I put that one on ATC.

I don't understand. Don’t controllers have evaluations and check sessions? If so, how is this guy clearing those?

A lot of people who don’t know any better, blaming the controller. This was a CFII (Certified Flight Instructor Instrument). He had an instrument student with him on an instrument flight plan. About 10 minutes after take off, they encountered turbulence and the left wing dropped 50°. Somehow they student got the plane in a spiral and the CFII got them out of it while declaring an emergency. By now, the emergency is over. The airplane is stable and not in any danger. The controller asked him if he had “Charlie”, which he shouldn’t have to listen to, since he just took off with “Charlie” on the ATIS. The pilot did not want the ILS instrument approach, which would be normal, for an aircraft on an instrument flight plan. He wanted a visual approach. He claimed he saw the airport and was given (and he accepted) the visual approach. This means, IFR minimum safe altitudes are no longer in effect. When he asked for a vector and altitude, it indicate he is not in visual conditions. Hence the questions from the controller. As soon as the controller was able to establish he was no longer able to fly visually, the instrument rules come back into effect. Hence the 140 heading and the 4000 feet. (And no, 3700 is not good enough). Besides sounding bored, this controller was doing his job. The pilot on the other hand, expected the controller to fly his airplane with a remote control or something. The research I’ve done, this pilot was notorious in that area about these sort of things. Sometimes you just have pilots who shouldn’t be.

@nimbuskhannk627

22 күн бұрын

No.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@nimbuskhannk627 very well explained. Thanks.

@lynndale4718

22 күн бұрын

The pilot repeatedly asked for a vector and the controller was too lazy to assign a heading.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@lynndale4718 listen again. First he asked for a vector and the controller told him direct to the airport. (Most gps equipment can do that). Then he asked a 2nd time he wanted a vector and was given 140. Then he wanted that vector one more time and the controller changed it to 090. Which the controller repeated 2 more times. Then he said he had the airport in sight and was given a visual approach clearance. At this point, vectors should be done and over with. So when he asked again for a vector, that was alarming to the controller, because it indicates he is not visual anymore. Once he confirmed that, he CANCELLED the approach clearance and gave him a vector and altitude. So no, I don’t hear what you are hearing.

@nimbuskhannk627

21 күн бұрын

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 You want an explanation? …It is pretty simple. An airplane, any airplane, always has a PIC. It does not matter if it is a captain on a A380, a CFI in a Seminole, a TRI/H on a helicopter or even a solo student in a Cessna 150. It is the sole responsibility of that PIC to declare an emergency when he/she finds it necessary to do so. A controller has 2 modes of operation, the regular one and the one dealing with emergencies. When dealing with emergencies, what is required from him/her is to provide expeditious, appropriate and to-the-point assistance to the PIC of the aircraft in distress. It is NOT his/her function or purview to question, analyze or muse about how appropriate the emergency might be. If the emergency was declared in an irregular, undue way, there are regulations and investigation panels to evaluate that at a later date, on the ground. The matter of fact is that there are many American controllers that, on top of using absurd, “creative”, non-standard phraseology, have a confrontational attitude while providing ATS to aircraft. We hear it, here in YT, all the time. Here, in Europe this would have been IMPOSSIBLE to happen because…well, because European controllers are extremely professional, actually have bosses that act as bosses and are fully accountable.

There is so much wrong with this whole scenario. First, there is so much abuse of the Mayday call by pilots and controllers. Mayday is only used when there is the likelihood of the loss of the aircraft or loss of life. The pilot should have used the call, PAN,PAN,PAN. Captain Sully used the call, “Mayday” when he knew he was gonna land in the Hudson. The controller needs additional training at the very least or a complete review of his actions up to termination. At any rate, when the pilot declared a MAYDAY he, the pilot, should have set 7700 in his transponder. This would have set off an alarm at the controllers position. The controller should have immediately acknowledged the MAYDAY call and asked the pilot to state his intentions. The controller did none of this and instead issued a heading. The controller never asked the pilot for souls on board and fuel. The controller should have pointed out airports in his vicinity. When the pilot stated he wanted to return the controller should have given him a heading straight to that airport and distance to the airport. Instead he instructed the pilot to get the ATIS. All this could have been given by the controller. Next the controller should have told the pilot any runway was available and just land on whatever runway he could make instead of assigning him a runway and vectoring him to the downwind or base for that runway. I’ve experienced so many controllers reacting to a MAYDAY in this fashion. Instead the controller went into some BS mode with attitude. For Christ’s sake, the pilot is dealing with an emergency! So, look, in the end, everybody needs more training in the classroom in this whole scenario. The controller especially! The pilot too - on when an emergency is really an emergency. When to scream MAYDAY or when PAN,PAN,PAN is appropriate! Rain and light turbulence is not an emergency. Crashing in the ocean is!

@Airtraffic101

21 күн бұрын

Approach controllers won’t issue you a clearance to land. They issue an approach clearance.

@Steve757-fl1hd

21 күн бұрын

@@Airtraffic101 True. But many times approach will coordinate with the tower and will have the tower issue a clearance through the approach controller. The approach controller will also relay the active runway and ATIS information to save the pilot changing freqs when they are busy with flying the airplane and navigating. We were trained with Aviate, Navigate and then Communicate.

@Airtraffic101

21 күн бұрын

@@Steve757-fl1hd yeah, IF there’s a true emergency, clearly this was not the case. The pilot is a chicken shit who should never attempt IFR conditions again.

The worst controller I have ever heard

Hope that controller is not in the frequency anymore

What’s the deal with these controllers? The pilot is not there to make your job easier, the controller however is there to help a pilot in any way possible, pathetic behavior!

A lot of attitude from both.

@bro9479

19 күн бұрын

Not really. The pilot was pretty reasonable. He got into a situation he wasn't capable of handling and rightfully declared an emergency, and ATC decided to pick a fight over it. Crazy.

Isn't this from a few years back?

@Sebastian-Westhoff

20 күн бұрын

yes

Such an annoying ATC controller..omg. Help him..

this atc should be fired.

ok, we only have the video to go by but I smell BS from the start. Pilot declares emergency when he's refused what he wants - an old trick. His manner certainly doesn't sound like he's in a spiral descent - sounds more like the tones of an entitled type used to getting his own way. But even if the controller suspected what I do, he failed to act appropriately and should have shelved any resentment/frustration until after landing.

090 is a RIGHT turn, no?

@Shmeeps_phd

22 күн бұрын

I mean it depends on what direction you're facing... He was on a heading of 140 so it would be to his left.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

90 can be left or right.

@DopeGhoti

22 күн бұрын

If your current heading is 360, a turn to 090 can be a 90° right turn or 270° left turn. That's why nearly every time you will hear ATC direct "left turn" or "right turn" followed by the expected heading.

@michaelmartin3096

21 күн бұрын

The pilot is expected to turn in the shorter direction to the heading unless otherwise instructed by ATC. He was heading 140 so a left turn is mandated.

@desmond-hawkins

20 күн бұрын

090 is an absolute direction, not relative. It doesn't mean "turn towards your 3 o'clock", it means "turn east".

ATC needs training or needs to find another job.

This was an old one...and I still think the pilot was being pr**k. Didn't like the fact he didn't get what he first requested...then declares and emergency and talks about extreme weather that has him in a spiral.... then miraculously gets himself out of that weather and doesn't want to talk about it with ATC. Pilot was clearly out of danger and ATC wants information so he can advise any other aircraft in the area. ATC gave pilot all the information he asked for and the pilot kept as much information about the situation to himself.

@felipevernaza3108

21 күн бұрын

No, in aviation safety is paramount. It's best not to take a risk guessing whether it's an emergency or not. Once declared, the ATC must treat it as such.

@jaredjones6292

21 күн бұрын

@@felipevernaza3108 The ATC did take it serious, asked all the questions that he needed to know and gave the pilot what he was asking for in the situation. This pilot was out of the supposed bad weather and had his aircraft under control. He didn't report mechanical issues or being low on fuel. Once again, the ATC was asking questions so that he could report it to other aircraft in the area. The pilot had time to tell the ATC he would talk about it on the ground...and then told the ATC to "take a deep breath." But had no concern about other pilots safety. I honestly think he was being overly dramatic and really just needed to take a leak really bad.

@pawepluta4883

21 күн бұрын

@@jaredjones6292 When dealing with emergency the routine questions are not what it is about. What it is about is to help pilot fly. If he saw the field beacon from how far? 7 miles? a lot might have happened until he reached it when he needed to slalom between clouds, or even rip through them. This is why he neeed vectors.

@RetreadPhoto

20 күн бұрын

Maybe he was low on fuel and just didn’t want to admit it. Or was about to poop his pants and needed to get on the ground ASAP.

@Templar0Valkrye

12 күн бұрын

I took it as pilot is only able to do VFR and got into IMC, which is an emergency, since, if don’t know how to read attitude super well, could lead into going to water since over the ocean. The emergency was the clouds and pilot isn’t instrument rated. Otherwise being given, ILS, direct to VOR and clouds wouldn’t be an issue.

Controller was fine. Pilot is not very capable and wants the controller to fix HIS mistakes. He called the field in sight and got cleared for the visual. DONT CALL IT IN SIGHT IF YOU DONT WANT THE VISUAL. Stay on the ground if you can’t handle it.

Both are jerks... But also this is some old stuff.

I say the problem is with both the pilot and controller. ATC was very professional until the pilot started sounding bit cocky. Pilot should know VFR rules and IFR rules are very distinct and nothing in between them.

Appalling controller. No empathy whatsoever.

This controller is awful.

I'm not a pilot, but what is the problem here??

@JDrapic

22 күн бұрын

The plane was in weather it couldn't handle and needed to land. The controller was giving directions to fly to waypoints originally which are named reference points, not too different from pointing someone to drive to a certain park then get further instructions in driving directions. The problem with that is if the pilot isn't familiar with those points and they're in bad weather, trying to pull up a map, give it the attention to find those points, and handle the airplane can be a lot to handle (think of being out of town and being told to drive to that park, you don't know where it is and you can't exactly stop to pull out a map while driving and there is no pulling over in this situation, and for bonus points, it's storming out). Instead, the pilot wants the controller to say which direction to fly in degrees, because that instrument is right on the dash and so it's much easier to handle, and that's not an unreasonable request. Because of the weather, the pilot could only get the airport in sight intermittently, but to clear the plane in for a visual approach, the pilot has to see the airport as the name suggests. The pilot wants to get directed where to go along the approach course until they're below the weather and closer to the airport. I don't think either of them are particularly right or wrong here aside from getting unprofessional with each other. They both have procedures they have to follow, and they're kind of butting against each other due to the situation. Because the pilot declared an emergency, however, some of those procedures can be bypassed to get the plane safely on the ground, even if the plane isn't still in as intense weather as it was at the beginning of the clip. That's my reading of it. I'm also not a pilot so I might have misinterpreted some points.

@h2oski1200

22 күн бұрын

there are a few things wrong here that people are going to argue back and forth but the biggest issue is when a pilot tells the controller they have the field in sight, that means you are able to navigate on your own without having to be told what headings to fly, etc... So you either 1) HAVE the airport in sight and can get there on your own ("cleared for the visual approach"), or 2) you DO NOT have the airport in sight and ATC will give you headings to fly to get there. this pilot said the magic words "I have the field in sight" but still expected ATC to vector him in. that's not the way it works. he never should have said he had the field in site, then ATC would have had to hold his hand all the way into the runway. there's more to it than that but to me that was the true turning point in this interaction.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@JDrapicthis was a CFII (instrument instructor) with a student on an instrument flight plan. So he is extremely well known of the waypoints and airspace. He is also known to be a trouble maker.

What are the odds of finding an incompetent ATC talking to an incompetent pilot in 2023? Pretty damn good given ATP, American Flyers, & US Aviation Academy....what's the FAA's excuse? Not only incompetent but a touch of asshole to both as well. You guys both need to become cops or lawyers.

Controller needs retraining too

non-pilot here.... this one is interesting with the comments divided on who was in the wrong here, although the people thinking the controller is in the wrong seem to just kind of really believe that he is. Not much reasoning. But again, I'm not a pilot so I have no idea.

@MikesDIY

18 күн бұрын

I believe both are at fault here. It seams like this pilot shouldn’t have taken off in these conditions. The thing I feel that the controller did wrong is argue with the pilot when he requested vectors. If a pilot declares an emergency, it is ATCs job to give that pilot what he needs to get safely to the ground. Everything will go through review. If it were a clear day and an emergency aircraft requested vectors when they have the airport in sight, just give them vectors. Getting upset with a pilot because he’s asking for instructions that you don’t feel make sense isn’t helping.

The level of incompetence of this pseudo-pilot : incredible

@bro9479

19 күн бұрын

Nah dude the level of incompetence of the controller is insane . Like holy cow, the pilot declares an emergency and asks for vectors and ATC tells him to go to a VORTAC? The pilot says he's in a spiral and uncontrolled descent and ATC decides to give him large turns to 090 away from land. Then tells him to get the ATIS instead of reading the relevant parts while the pilot is already in an emergency situation struggling with the airplane. Then the pilot requests vectors to the airport again for a visual approach and instead of providing any vectors the controller just states to report the field when able. The controller then wants to argue about whether or not the pilot was experiencing an emergency WHILE THE PILOT IS STILL IN IT! ATC continues to argue about the visual approach clearance when the pilot very clearly states that he needs vectors to the approach. Absolutely wild. Not every pilot out there is a 2000hr+ ATP pilot, and this pilot rightfully declared an emergency when he deemed it necessary for safety of flight. The behavior of the controller was so wildly inappropriate that every pilot and controller that listens to this should be pissed off about it.

@Dub-ro9tk

19 күн бұрын

All the more reason for ATC to help him get on the ground.

@insomnia20422

18 күн бұрын

Can you REALLY judge what was going on in his cockpit from these comms alone? I cant 🤷‍♂

@mango7862

17 күн бұрын

@@Dub-ro9tk shroud letting touch an airplane anymore (I hope)

@mango7862

17 күн бұрын

@@bro9479 I totally disagree … your negligence and incompetence got you into it. Fess up and take it like a man instead of hiding mistakes. Visual but … heading but perhaps … in Yankee’s land people can get a PPL easier than buying a gun (cit. Hunter Biden).

Terrible pilot. Terrible controller. One should get training and an attitude adjustment. The other should be shown the door, he’s in the wrong career field.

another yt channel with very old events trying to skim of vsaviation and similar channels.

I was ATC 31.5 years. This is by far the STUPIDEST controller I've heard in my life. What the hell? Help the pilot in distress! And, he WAS on a visual approach, which means descent to the ground, couldn't keep airport in sight, because of those cloud layers pilot reported and showing on the METAR and TAF, thus he descended below 4,000 on the previous clearance.

This guy has no business being an air traffic controller period.

Declaring an emergency because of light rain and turbulence is an abuse of the system. And demanding vectors when he is given checkpoints is being an a-hole.

That controller really needs to seek another line of work.

Gotta say worst controller ever

DEI?

Looks like the pilot is in over his head. He is expecting the controller to get him out of a situation that should have been avoided. the pilot is on VFR, visual flight rules, means not in the clouds. Pilot needs to be violated by FAA.

@herkloader34

22 күн бұрын

That's not the way it works dumbass. The pilot got into an unexpected bad situation, spoke up, declared an emergency, then asked for help. Exactly what pilots are suppose to do when in a bad situation.

@JohnChuprun

22 күн бұрын

That's the wrong attitude to have. Some talking to once on the ground about how to avoid getting in this situation and such, but when you are VFR and get stuck in IMC, the last thing you want is to have pilots be afraid to ask for help fearing retribution. His life is at stake for goodness gracious. There are numerous accident investigations with conclusions that it could have been avoided by simply asking for help and admitting you are in over your head.

@unclebounce1495

22 күн бұрын

What a mor0n. Shyt happens, and vfr in bad weather is a very real emergency. doesn't matter if computer pilots (and pretend human pilots) in big airliners can handle the same route or not IFS. Weather/satellite info isn't perfect. Things can creep up on you. Sometimes you move one way to avoid and find yourself in deeper shyt. The reasons are irrelevant. it's not the ATFs job to scold, educate, or correct. it's their job to support and assist as needed then STFU.

@cajinguy218

22 күн бұрын

Such thing called “inadvertent IMC.” By the sound of the pilot’s voice, I’d suggest he handled himself very well through this experience. He got himself into a jam and used his procedures to get himself out of it. Controller is sitting on the ground at zero airspeed- it’s his responsibility to get the pilot to a safe state. Figure out the “situation” on the ground.

@Airtraffic101

22 күн бұрын

@@cajinguy218what exactly did the controller do wrong? The controller put him in position to make visual contact with the airport as confirmed by the pilot. Is it also the controllers responsibility to keep the pilot clear of clouds??

That controller should be fired immediately. His special kind of stupid can’t be corrected.

@LowandFast357

22 күн бұрын

For what, exactly?

@peted6334

22 күн бұрын

@@LowandFast357retardation, asking about atis during emergency, questioning previous turbulence description unnecessarily and other definite signs of first degree douchekuntery! 😅

@mkaestn

22 күн бұрын

Nope!

@herkloader34

22 күн бұрын

​@AircraftBrokerDG if you have to ask "for what exactly?" then you're just as fucking stupid as the controller.

@Airtraffic101

22 күн бұрын

Controller: do you have visual of the airport? Pilot: Yes Controller: great, cleared visual approach. Pilot: no I want vectors and an altitude assignment, now. There’s clouds out there. Controller: do you have visual of the airport or no? Pilot: no I don’t. I’m not sure what the controller did wrong here. He needs to ask the nature of the emergency.

I'm a recently retired controller and can tell you exactly what's happening here. The controller is trying to talk about surfing with the controller next to him, and this stupid pilot keeps interrupting with dumb questions like wanting a vector. HELLO? Use your GPS. Welcome to Biden/Buttigieg's new FAA where controllers are now selected based on ethnicity (only indigenous and LGBTQIA are now hired for Hawaii for example) rather than knowledge or interest in aviation. They could care less what pilots have to go through, have no idea how airplanes work and don't care. Get used to it because this is the new reality.

@johndawson7121

22 күн бұрын

You realize this is an old recording right? Biden has nothing to so with it…. But good job exposing yourself as conspiracy nutter…

This is the copy and paste KZread channel

Worst controller ever. I spent over 28 years as a ATC, DTW, ORD, LAX, BAYTRACON, LAS, and MIA. Never heard such BS when a pilot needed help. I guess DEI is act work.

@ianflood1

22 күн бұрын

Why are you assuming the race of the controller? There’s absolutely zero evidence DEI initiatives had anything to do with this.

@johncarter1137

22 күн бұрын

@@ianflood1 It was broadcast all over the media that it was. This was way back in May 2024.

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

@@johncarter1137right wing media. This is a ridiculous statement

@rtbrtb_dutchy4183

22 күн бұрын

Ridiculous statement. The controller wasn’t even wrong. The pilot was.

@jednick

21 күн бұрын

@gary.... Do you understand how you reduce your credibility with that last part?

This audio is old, years old. where did you decide to steal this from to pass this off as your own creation.

DEI hire.

Is it the non-pilots in the comments siding with the pilot? The "pilot" was not qualified to be in command of any aircraft. If you need your hand held like a little baby you shouldn't be flying without an instructor.

@MikesDIY

18 күн бұрын

That’s something that can be taken up on the ground. When any pilot declares an emergency, it is ATCs job to get them whatever they need to get safely to the ground. You can’t jeopardize someone’s life because they aren’t qualified to be in the position they’re in.

@jasonkimball7617

18 күн бұрын

@@MikesDIY To be clear, he initially declared emergency for weather. He was then out of the weather, so emergency was over. If you are saying he was still an emergency aircraft, then the emergency must have been his utter incompetence and inability to pilot the aircraft. But ATC did not know that. They rightfully assumed emergency was over when pilot was out of the weather. So not sure blaming them is the right thing to do. They still held his hand and got him to the ground.