Drinking game: take a sip of your drink every time i say "AC"

@asureaskie8955

Жыл бұрын

Suicide game lol

@lionllew8459

Жыл бұрын

hic!

That last cheese doesn't look that broken, heat is energy, by turning it into electricity you end up cooling the mixture. Think of it as geothermal energy I guess

This has actually inspired me to fire up the game again. I had a pair of Venus/Vulcan worlds in progress when the AC nerf hit and I lost interest. Giant banks of ACs didn't appeal and I was long past where I could go back and set up winterspawn. This has given me ideas about how they might be rescued. Thanks for the inspiration!

@tpelton

Жыл бұрын

hah ! i went through the exact same grief cycle. had a vulcan base i'd been hacking on for a year. had an AC system that wasn't even using the backpressure exploit but was pretty legit. then the AC update came, and i rage quit for a while. and now, i too have rebuilt it using the techniques here, and saved my base. having said that, for some reason i built the 3x3 venus build for my vulcan base. total brain fart on my part. having said that, i have it sinking heat into a tank, and radiating that tank at night. seems to be working, though i have no idea if i've ruined my effeciency. now that i'm aware of my mistake, i might rebuild it again ... or i might not. ;)

Please tell me the devs are going to settle with this AC version, I am scared to build a bigger base with how the game keeps changing so much. Thank you so much for this video, I'm a caveman when it comes to the programming and maths side of things and would not have known where to start with cooling on Venus without this video! I won't be using any big cheese in my builds, as fun as they are, they are also targets for the nerf gun. I'll be sure to link this video in the episode I build your "small cheese," even though I don't consider it a cheese when it's working within the rules of the game. How else are we really supposed to survive on Venus? A constant 4kw of power demand on top of everything else is huge when you are just starting out.

Thanks for the nice vid... very helpful 💡 tried avoiding ACs so far but not anymore.

YAY! I got it right! I also found that trying to use mass to stabilize the daisy chain, actually cause the ACs to work a lot harder. I didn't try to tune the setup to the amount of gas in each loop *in regards to the first setup where the ACs are daisy chained. I worked out the maximum delta and usage

@JoelleTheAbsurdist

Жыл бұрын

Awww, looking back, I actually got it wrong... I worked it out to be 50 some odd degrees... Now I am sad...

Amazingly useful video... thanks! Back before someone figured out that you could put a back pressure regulator on the old AC's waste pipe to get it to divert input gases into the waste pipe every tick which would fool it into calculating that the temperature differential was zero, I posted a video showing that you could just connect the waste and intake together to get the same effect and create a stream of cool gases even on Venus with only 300W of power. I was roasted on the game's Discord for this because certain people said it was a cheat, and they cheered when the devs "fixed" the AC. I'm just pointing out that you're doing effectively the same thing by feeding the input from the waste to keep the temperature differential at zero, and you're getting an even more OP effect. But apparently they think that's OK, lol.

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

I remember that well, and i never liked the "you play the game wrong"-crowd. Maybe the last 6 months got them stunned 😜

Man great stuff, small suggestion - please do a smooth and steady camera/pan view of your setups. It's so hard to duplicate it going back and forth through the video! thanks :D

Just testing the 6 paired setup, had trouble getting any cooling from the simple version with no pumps or IC's running at 150-250kPa, had pipes freezing, no flow and burst pipes, managed to get a flow by setting all the AC's to Venus temp 463°C then incrementally raising the hot side and lowering the cold side by 10° at a time, that was with Venus atmo, no filtering. Ultimately no cooling achieved. The 6 pair setup with pumps and IC's and no vent on the first cold AC with a running pressure at 3.5mPa was reaching an output temp of 377°c with no load. Adding a passive vent and pipe analyser and increasing the pressure to 5mPa and am seeing some cooling now. The operational temp efficiencies are all creeping up. I'd say this setup definitely needs at least 5mPa to work. This is a great setup from Elmo, genius.

Thank you for this comprehensive video!

11:02 I experimented with this design for a while over the past few days (May 2024) and with the way cold pressurized liquids condense in pipes now, I couldn't get it to run safely. Even after (eventually finding and) modifying the temperature setting it uses for the cooling side in the code so those wouldn't lower the temperature too much, it turned out the heating side was still stealing so much heat from their "waste" pipes that the colder stages kept flooding with liquid volatiles, going to thousands of percent stress and popping. I've been trying to figure out what exactly this (basically uncommented) code is doing, so I could try to add low temperature or "presence of liquid" checks, but so far I'm still working to understand what the various sets of calculations are _for..._

So.. what you're saying is that with the stirling engine, and an efficient enough heat pump setup, you can concentrate heat energy into the input of the stirling engine and generate a power surpluss when not counting the power required to generate the heat? Shonks. Loved the two heat deletion methods, and the portable thingey. That was very cheesy.

for daisychain: - use pressure reg to autofill pipes and when done, remove them (or turn off if you plan to expand) - higher pressure is better as it's allowing smaller differentials when operating - gas does matter there (light in front, heavy in waste, chained with heat exchanger) but yeah, your set up looks be more efficient.

I liked the cheese old way with the regulator to be honest, I feel it gets overcomplicated to fast on venus and Vulcan especially early game. I used to like Vulcan but since the rework I haven't played it.

@autom8it339

Жыл бұрын

Early game you can just use the portable A/C, and it's so OP. I'm not sure what the devs are going to do to balance that.

Very nice informative video elmo but as usual they tried to fix the ac's and its still got exploited lol. I hope at least you show the Devs your last set up as to allow them to try and fix it. I think they need to make AC's work like IRL where there is 2 parts,head unit indoors and the compressor unit outdoors .

@autom8it339

Жыл бұрын

They could fix it by removing the 3rd port, and just make it only be a heat pump (like the wall cooler) and have the efficiency fall off rapidly as the temperature differential changes. Allowing you to connect the waste and input to keep the temperatures equal is the exploit. Just have two pipes and have it pump heat from one side to the other.

In my head I was trying to grade the different AC setups from mild Gouda to fully matured Camembert.. then the heat deleting setup came up.. did you know there is a cheese that actually is buried in bugs (mites) to mature ? .. i also got very hungry for Raclette, but I am kind of lactose intolerant ^^ I don't like hot environments though, so I am lucky to hopefully never have to use that cheese .. I am totally laying under the table right now (just kidding, I don't drink), so thanks again !

A great video, thx

I did it on Venus for the Winterspawns. It works, but need time and knowledge, how to do things ;)

On Vulcan you might be better off storing the cold world gas and blowing it through an AC into the world so the cold gas never increases in temp. I made something similar to the last cheesy one, though I did it differently and couldn't get it to run reliably every tick so I made it sequenced: Volume pump in AC runs Back pressure (set to 0) out Then you can just run that gas through a radiator to delete the heat or since it's such a tiny amount of gas you can just dump it outside.

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

ye you could probably do that instead of the active vent cooling. it could even be more power efficient. But you would have to replenish the gas with a filtration unit, and i don't like relying on filters that gets depleted for critical systems :)

@firstlast9923

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix You don't need a filter, you could either fill the entire loop with world gas or have a heat exchanger in between the world gas and the looped gas

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

In Norwegian we have the proverb: "the winning goes up in the spinning" :P

I tested and tried to work out a setup with a push-pull AC setup, where one side is heating, and the other side cooling... kinda like one AC being the compressor and the other being an expansion valve, but I couldn't get it to work... Sad me

Nice video, thanks! Is it still relevant with the current game version and what code I would need for the ic10s if replacing the valves with volume pumps? I ask because the provided link to the code do not seem clear to me because somewhere there is also written that it is oudated. Also I want to mention that the initilization of the valve variant didnt work for me. Only after reloading the save game the initilization happened suddenly. (possibly maybe I did something wrong when filling it up with 150 kpa on venus)

@Elmotrix

22 күн бұрын

the only thing that has changed is the portable AC. everything else is more or less applicable still.

You got a sun inside a pipe wtf is that portable ac

Hey Elmo, could you please share the Vulcan world from this video on Steam workshop? I just wanted to have a good look on your setup there, as I'm a slow learner when it comes to Stationeers, and would be great to be able to "study" more closely what you've done there. But if you can't, I just wanted to know what was the pressure in the pipes in between the 2 ACs that you showed first. Does it have to be high, like the other end (22MPa) where the storage tank was? Thanks!

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

sharing worlds is disabled in the game these days, but no it doesn't need to be that high pressure :) it can be almost whatever

@alecisla

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix Ah ok then, thanks for your reply! Your channel is great, I'm watching everything!

I assume this setup can also be used in reverse right? For example to heat a furnace. My question is though, can I have the same setup both cool my base and heat the furnace or will that detrementally impact performance?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

you can use it in reverse to heat a furnace, but the operational temperature efficiency makes it miserable when you go hotter. it'll be better than a pipe heater, but not by very much.

The Stirling engine doesn't seem like a cheese, it just converts heat energy into electrical energy. It evaporates water with the heat, move pistons with the steam to run an alternator.

@iconoplasty

Жыл бұрын

The cheese is that it's a perpetual motion machine, violating thermodynamics. It will not only power itself, but generates excess energy for free.

@i_see-what_u-did_there8400

Жыл бұрын

@@iconoplasty My bad, 1st I confused it with steam engine then I didn't realise it only has enough energy to move itself and will stop if a load is put on it.

22:07 couldn't you just connect all the pipes together in series with a pipe valve then fill from one end? then once its all at 112kpa then shut all the valves and you're good to go? they can all be the same temperature at the start right? you also said it doesn't matter what gas you use, so you could just connect an active vent to bring in whatever gas is outside.

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

when it starts running it will cool down the gasses, causing the pressure to drop. You could however use one-way-valves.

it looks like that AC Tutorial is not work Anymore? Actually i use the Set up at 22:40 min with 6 ACs and One way< walves and it cools Down but extremly low. No instant Cooling, mayx

👌

Thank you for you coverage of the air conditioning systems. I have been considering something like your Vulcan setup where you offset the dumping of the heat into the atmosphere until the night. However, when I get around to it, I was planning to use the gas/liquid version of the heat exchanger as water should be able to store way more heat than any gas. Have you ever done anything using water as the heat storage mechanism?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

You can use water as a heat sink, but it's kinda pointless. "water stores more heat" is only true pr mole. Twice as many moles of co2, or 3 times in volatiles does the exact same thing. But those are way cheaper.

@mahamasamataman3087

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix Yeah, the way the game handles liquids seems very off. They run it as if it has a pressure; but for the most part, liquids don't actually compress. The number of moles in a liter of liquid should be greater than any gas that the game has at any pressure that you could safely contain it at -- by far. However, it seems the game does not account for state change (gas - liquid - solid) except by exception ( "frozen water doesn't work in some things; but still flows through a pipe..."

Did they change the way the portable AC works? It seems like it doesn't function while connected to the tank connectors anymore.

@erikeggenbakstad

4 ай бұрын

I get the same result when cooling a base initially.

I am gobsmacked this is how Rocketwerkz decided to make ACs work. Please correct me if I'm wrong, this is how, from what I can gather, the *cooling* cycle works: - Gas is collected via the main input into internal inventory #1, we'll call it "GasToCool" - Gas is collected via an input/output the game calls "Waste", into internal inventory #2, we'll call this inventory "Refridgerant", and then sealed off - Refridgerant is compressed, heating it higher than the ambient Waste temperature (the only time this game allows adiabatic heating/cooling, locked away inside these AC units...) - Refridgerant is then heat-exchanged with the Waste input/output, cooling Refridgerant and heating Waste - Refridgerant is thermally isolated from Waste, and then expanded, adiabatically cooling the gas - Refridgerant is pumped into GasToCool, adding to its total mass and presumably cooling it, assuming that the cooled refridgerant's temperature is indeed lower than GasToCool's initial temperature - This mixture is then pumped out the output Mass is subtracted from Waste and added to GasToCool Heat is added to Waste and subtracted from GasToCool I hope this ISN'T how it works because it seems really fucking stupid. They could have just made an "adiabatic compressor" and an "adiabatic decompressor" if they wanted to force us through some tech tree, instead of this unrealistic and opaque monstrosity

Anyone know if the ac cooling still works? "One AC cools the next "? Can't seem to get any response from the temperature of the pipes.

So hydrated right now

@elmotrix the mini display with the two AC was helpful - but noticed all your other setups have passive vents on the waste side for the first "cold AC" - after the first AC series the waste vents connect back to the input - what are these passive vents never heard an explanation ..

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

those ACs with passive vents CAN be configured like the others with the waste feeding back into the input, but that would just put a larger strain on the radiators. because these ACs have world temperature as input, putting a passive vent on there still gives 100% temperature differential efficiency, but the heat is expelled directly out into the world.

I like this setup, but how I can set temperature in coding?

This video needs an update ;)

Scandinavia ftw

Hi .. is this with your Atmospheric Realism overhaul?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

No this is vanilla gameplay

@_SimpleSam

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix Could absolutely use a tutorial for how to implement cooling with Atmospheric Realism Overhaul - struggling with it right now, and can't get it to work. :(

Thanks for not showing how the heat-delete setup works. It would just cause it to be the new standard of ignoring an aspect of the game that shouldn’t be..

@TheTruPez

Жыл бұрын

It’s not very reliable. I know how to set it up, and it’s very efficient but extremely temperamental and difficult to keep working 😂

Hikaru 3:23 HMMM i have used only 4 ac to cool more than 5x time the size of the demo room shown all 50% glass wall wait i am using old venus with 100c night and 400c day aslo collecting night time gas for the ac waste

👍hydrogen for the ac unit wow that safe lol

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

any less safe than running around with hydrogen in the atmosphere under a black hole? 😉

I recreated the setup with 6 AC and filled it with 500kPa N2. But I can't get the system to work. No matter which AC I switch on, it is immediately switched off again by the controller. What am I doing wrong? Do I have to define the target temperature somewhere?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

More pressure.

@toxicbubble5

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix Mine are also never starting, filled to 10MPa of Nitrogen, they still never start the pumps and the ACs are idle.

@toxicbubble5

Жыл бұрын

Ugh, I figured it out. You HAVE to close the little cover on the IC or else it does not function, wow. That's so crazy, I spent hours debugging the code only to randomly just figure that out :(

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

@@toxicbubble5 safety feature. If you pull out the chip while it's running pipes might go boom :)

@iconoplasty

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix AHA! I've been trying to figure this out and the Open check in the code just didn't light the lightbulb. If you can update the code on the Workshop, a few extra comments to explain quirks like this would be very helpful. Thanks regardless though... this is an awesome setup.

Hello ! Why on the 3rd and 4th setup only H² and X gases can be used ? Can we have the world save on the workshop plz ?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

the pipe heaters are just a simulated load.

@jeremyr.7982

Жыл бұрын

@@Elmotrix thanks !

I can't get this working. Have 126* tank on Vulcan. Using two A/C's. Tank is plumbed into line that would be output on hot A/C. I'm using one way valves. Set hot A/C to 75*, cold to 20*. In the end, all piping just ends up the same 127* temp as tank. Using volatiles as gas. WTF am I doing wrong? Only way I can kinda get it to work is to use hot A/C to HEAT the gas at 150*. Then it will let the cold side drop to about 75*. But that's clearly not how this is supposed to work. Any ideas?

@Elmotrix

Жыл бұрын

I never showed a one-way valve version for vulcan for a reason 😉 it can be done but it's slightly more ticky. The valve version only really works around a specific (low) pressure window, which is tricky to combine with a day-time high pressure heat sink. If you want something that doesn't require code, you can use pressure regulators in place of the valves set to 101kPa.

@GodprefersDiesels

Жыл бұрын

I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

@GodprefersDiesels

Жыл бұрын

​@@Elmotrix Well, I think it worked! Two A/C's have massive cooling power now. Here's what I did: Tore up the cold side. Added the regulators. Reinstalled the cold pipes. Ran the system, and let the cold side fill itself. (I have hot side regulated to 4mpa) It can handle a load, but I can't seem to modulate the temp. Hits negative temps quick, even against a tank of warm water. Cools it down very quickly. So I babysat it, and killed power to the A/C's when it got to a reasonable temp. With this setup, should you be able to control the final temp?

@GodprefersDiesels

Жыл бұрын

​@@Elmotrix Is this setup super sensitive to pressure in the pipes? If so, what should I keep hot/cold side at? I just broke it by mixing each side to see what happened, so I vacuumed out cold side, and let it fill on it's own, but now it doesn't have the capacity to change temps of other gasses across a heat exchanger, even though it's sitting at -66*. I shut off the hot side A/C to let it fill the cold side some, and it helped. Should I be regulating pressure into the cold side, or just let it do it's thing?

*taps my head* You don't need cooling if you don't heat it with sun through windows.

So, I guess this 23:00 isn't viable anymore as the latest version :(

@Elmotrix

9 ай бұрын

it's better than ever. too good. it freezes nitrogen.

@Sworn973

9 ай бұрын

@@Elmotrixwhaaat, I must had messed it up somewhere, my end pipe just sit at same temp as the world. 3 sets of 2 ac each row .

@ToxiN0011

9 ай бұрын

for me it blows up always

Is this still accurate?

@Elmotrix

Ай бұрын

mostly. the portable AC has been nerfed. and that 1-way-valve setup became a nitrogen ice dispenser. But otherwise it holds.

@vault1515

Ай бұрын

I did one way valve setup and it works fine, lowest I saw was -100 degrees. And I can't get a code setup to work AC's shuts off instantly after start.

@Elmotrix

Ай бұрын

@@vault1515 code has safety guards ;)

@vault1515

28 күн бұрын

@@Elmotrix So how do I get it to work? I noticed that max setting fo the pumps is 30, since the normal pump has max setting of 10 should I use turbo pumps or lower the setting in the code?

@Elmotrix

28 күн бұрын

@@vault1515 either type of pump is fine. but it needs to be enough gas in the pipes. and you need to close the IC lid on the AC

hard to take this seriously when your first big claim is factually untrue.

@Elmotrix

9 ай бұрын

lol what?

This format was a bit hard to follow as a build guide.

Keep the secret, the room is 100c which is entirely unlivable. So unless you can prove it would cool a base to 20c, i think my base cooling system is better than all of these. Which is 2 AC units, one AC cools the waste line of the one that cools my base to 25c and holds it there. The waste cooling is simply hooked up to a waste pipe radiating to the open air on vulcan. During the day it doesn't work that well, but after watching this, I could use the same large storage tank method and without the active vents do the exact same thing. Just use a valve with a daytime sensor set to close the valve during the day... uses much less power too.

This is just abusing how the game calculates efficiency no? Pulling heat out of a cold gas is inefficient.

man you are a genius

@gloverelaxis

10 ай бұрын

I still for the life of me cannot understand why on earth they made the ACs function in such a bizarre way. just make them like real life ACs! just implement adiabatic heating and let us compress, radiate, decompress, and heat-exchange ourselves! it's so unbelievably stupid to make a game where temperature management is a huge deal, which has mechanics for compression, radiation, valves, and conduction, and then to deliberately break the laws of physics to STOP us from combining those mechanics to create air conditioning with a closed-cycle refridgerant... Dean Hall is a fucking moron, man. I love Stationeers but it's a real shame that Stationeers is the furthest anyone's got to a 3D SS13, because it's controlled by a really, really dumb person. There are so many utterly insane decisions he's made and he's clearly such an incompetent boss. I wish *anyone* else was given the money and influence he made from DayZ. you, Elmotrix, could single-handedly fix like 70% of what's wrong with this game in probably less than a month if you were familiar with its source language. the mods you've made show a thoughtfulness and game design sense that Rocketwerkz utterly lack.