I think that the greatest reward for Phosphoru was the nerf because it acknowledged the quality of his strat.

@erikmyers3888

7 ай бұрын

and the impetus to innovate again

"He can't keep getting away with this!" -as he continues to get away with it.

Basically Sicilians allow you to take 1 additional hit from spear- or pikemen at almost all points in the game if you're on similar upgrades with your opponent. Feudal Age: ------------------- Scouts: 45 HP, 0 Armor Spearmen: 3+15 Attack > 3 hit scouts vs Sicilians (-33% bonus damage): 3+10 Attack > 4 hits Scouts FU: 65 HP, 1 Armor Spearmen FU: 3+1+15 Attack > 4 hits vs Sicilians: 3+1+10 Attack > 5 hits Castle Age: ------------------- Light Cavalry: 60 HP, 0 Armor Pikemen: 4+22 Attack > 3 hits vs Sicilians: 4+14.6 Attack > 4 hits Light Cavalry with Feudal Age Upgrades: 80 HP, 1 Armor Pikemen 4+1+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor) vs Sicilians: 4+1+14.6 Attack > 5 hits Light Cavalry FU: 80 HP, 2 Armor Pikemen FU: 4+2+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor) vs Sicilians: 4+2+14.6 Attack > 5 hits

@Zolpi1234

7 ай бұрын

u really want that heart, do you?

@juanignaciolopeztellechea9401

7 ай бұрын

You forgot about the bohemians +25%bonus.

@GalileoAV

7 ай бұрын

Well done, thanks for the numbers

@M0M...

7 ай бұрын

*Me asking ChatGPT*

@f.p.6116

7 ай бұрын

Nice work!!!

Maths are hard(y) Spearmen / Pikemen / Halbs deal +15 / +22 / +32 vs cavalry. Sicilians' land military units (except siege) ignore 33% of those. However Bohemians' spearman-line deals 25% additional bonus damage. So, for "x" bonus damage: x > 1.25x (Bohemians) > 82.5x (Sicilians scouts against Bohemians spearmen). In other words, the Bohemians spear-line deals 12.375 / 18.15 / 26.40 (I guess 12 / 18 / 26) bonus damage on Sicilians scouts. TLDR; if my calculations are correct, the Sicilians bonus against Bohemians means the spearman-line deals - 3 / -4 / -6 bonus damage on Sicilians cavalry (compared to generic units)

The training time nerf on the wagons has to be nearly as important- losing 5 seconds on each means every 2 minutes he's ending up with four wagons instead of five ...

Phosphoru, wherever you are in the world right now, you and youpuddings crazy strats have reignited my passion for aoe2. The over the top all in strats you guys have created are so intriguing and sick to watch, love your work.

Sassy Hardy 😂 Love it

In so many of your videos, you give the internet the tips needed to defeat an interesting opponent / strategy. But with Phosphoru, you basically sent him a bunch of free meals: everyone thought they had the secret to beat him but he was already several steps ahead, ready to counter the counter. Incredible player, what a legend.

Y'know whatta been funny? If when T90 asked for stats and the editor was like 😂, if suddenly we'd heard "Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here" and we get a little section with SOTL explaining the numbers to us.

FINALLY A PHOSPHORU UPDATE! this new meta was DRIVING my soul

If this guy played chess he'd spend all his time learning and developing opening traps.

It would be micro and attention intensive, but I feel like the optimum strategy for the scout player would be to have a hunting pack of scouts in the middle of the map. You want to pick off wagons alone using your speed.

I think Phosphoru should send a single vill with his attack to both repair units and also steal farms to delete them.

@OCinneide

7 ай бұрын

Now that's a high APM play

@GabrielGreedy

7 ай бұрын

That's freaking evil, I love it

@Sids1192

7 ай бұрын

I guess the issue there is that scouts would target the vills. That means they have to be replaced, which is not easy when Phosphoru's strategy doesn't have anyone collecting food. Still, with the repairs, you would probably save enough wood and gold to be able to move some vills around and make it work. I'll leave it to the competent players to find the exact formula.

If you think about it, the Sicilian farm bonus is more of a wood bonus than a food bonus. You don't really get any more food per minute, you just spend less wood per food.

@BayWa4eva

6 ай бұрын

depends what resource you are looking for. in this case wood is just a means to get food, so wood savings lead to a bigger farm count and therefore more food. if you want wood (archers) then food is just there to get more wood (by vil count), so it is a wood bonus then. works for every resource you need so everything except stone (unless you go uu of course).

I'm glad people like this, Hoang for the best example, exist to shake things up. Random civ play is a good meta for the competitive scene but having a place for the unique players keeps things fresh and encourages the meta to not get too stale

I'm doing the math, but it might take sometime.

The legend returns

Wagons damage output is insane. Historically, they were supposed to be defensive barricades for people. Devs could reshape them as a low based attack units, gaining attack by garrisoning vills inside. This would prevent low eco strats to go out of hand. Maybe pikes could be garrisoned too as during the 30 years' war a lot of villagers were turned into soldiers by simply giving them a pike

Happy New Year T90! I am one of those people you always talk about. Played this game obsessively when it came out (1998-2000) and then moved on. We had build orders and hot keys back then, but the game was a lot simpler - and I was near the top of the ladder a few times. Just started playing again in November 2023 and found your content. It is much harder now, I am average at best (in T90 speak I am more LEL than MEM). Thanks for helping keeping this game alive! I will keep watching.

First of all, thanks T90 for the video, it is great, both the concept and the execution ! So, as the goal was to theory craft, what can be done by both players to improve their chance of winning? For the all in player (here bohemian), i think the most important think is computing precisely the number of villager you need to constantly produce the unique unit (here waggon). Have one villager one farm and trickle produce villager. That way you can slowly converge toward the optimal number and get out of the "all in" state. Also being mindfull about not trickling down renforcement (which phosphoru did pretty well). For the defending player I think there is a lot to do (even though it is obviously hard since you are under pressure) : - finish destroying the market (not a big deal in general, because it is map dependent, and also the waggon not costing food means you are a nuisance but not fully blocking the other player. but still a big nuisance it can be) - cut of renforcement (having 5-8 scouts patrolling in the middle, so that it is hard to send down the new waggons) - vill fight more (given the fact that you lost with more villager at the end, i think that there is a point where sacrificing villagers would have been worth it) - be patient, accept losses and counter attack (as long as you win time, at some point the "all in" player have to switch gold, then you can strike, because the castle does not defend anymore) - I am not sure dungeons were the way to go, they did little damages, and in total did cost a lot. It is maybe possible to use said ressources to go up to castle and make knights/siege ? I feel like the purpose of tower defense is "my vill are less efficient that if i would send them in vill fight, but in exchange they are safer". Again i am not sure the goal here is to save ten vills. I feel like the goal is more "how can I stop the all in from killing me"/"how can i stop them from having a critical amount of waggons"? - maybe run with the eco and spread it (to counter the fact that the waggons have to stay in a big ball to avoid getting picked up), - maybe use the fact that he abuses the market (for example he sold stone, so if you go to castle age you can buy a castle, but it not like conq or janissary all in, the all in player is not that dependent on the market here). None of the "solutions" for the defending player seems great, but i feel like the game was pretty close (again looking at the ressources, if the all in is stopped at any time it is game over). Anyway if some of you have better suggestions i'd like to hear them.

26:52 - T90 getting distracted

- Any time you can get a rule changed/made because of you, you've made your mark, for good or ill. 😂

Thanks for the video. Just super cool you try to test your theory against this strat. Really like this kind of videos.

Great content, I am starting the new year with a new addiction, love you videos!

Amazing. Good job T90 and good job Red Phosphoru!!

T90: "Maybe Hardy can do the math"... Hardy: "Yeah right, like I have any clue" 😆

wow just made food, ty t90 great timing!

Always nice to see these strats

Happy holidays T90! I don't even have the time to play ranked AoE but your vids keep the hype running!

thanks for the upload. wasnt expecting this outcome

Im going to like this video solely because of the mind games. 😂 Your content is always awesome. Much love.

I really liked the intro, great setup for the game 👌🏻

Phosphoru confirmed for Titans League Silver S3?

Love this guys mindset with the elo points. I get annoyed if i drop 100 elo points and ik it is stupid. I am getting better, but i think that is because i am comfortable with my elo and i beleive it am at my max elo till i do another dive on how to improve

great stuff T-90! :-)

4:25 Ah, Hardy, you are amazing :D :D :D

Just ran a few tests with unupgraded versions of the ram and wagon, even coming in from a distance on a 4v4 the rams were able to beat the wagons. I'd be interested to see this played out in a game, I don't think I'm good enough to try to build an effective scenario or go in on a wagon vs ram war.

The fact that he's absolutely OK with his ELO plummeting is a testament to how cool Phosphoru is. Truly a Legend.

Happy Easter T90

A true chaotic neutral player. Respect.

I wonder if the following civs could work: Cumans - extra tc means safer and more vils, they have faster mounted units to catch the Hussite Wagons, stables are cheaper, so the first first wave of cav could get their earlier, they also have battering rams in feudal age, which could be a good meat shield against the Wagons. Stronger Pallisades for walling out the wagons Magyars - free forging, and cheaper scouts, since you are building 99% scouts it becomes something like a 10 % food gathering bonus Slavs - could be good because of their farming bonus Aztecs - better farmers, eagle scouts could be better with their high pierce armor and lack of bonus damage from spears. They are also created faster

Absolute legend!

Im just under 600 and I do this strat as well - I don't do what he does...I also use seige...pretty sick against people at my level :). The best strat to beat this is Celts (maganols) - Seige eat Wagons I am the OddKing on AOE II btw :)

Surpsied he doesnt use the Poles. Extra gold when mining stone for the castle so more vills elsewhere and also it only takes 11-13 obuch to take out a full garry TC and They counter any feudal age unit1

@Trent110000

7 ай бұрын

also faster food from mill

congrats on hitting 2400 elo T90. Thx fot the video

More LEL V T90 Please!!! Epic GG's

Maybe instead of attacking reinforcement if you could attack the gold. Might have distracted him.

I think when hera fought this strategy, he ignored the initial attack and just focused on killing the vills

Was going to say I'd love to see another update after the nerf, but just reached the part where you said that Phospohru's not playing Bohemians anymore

Red Phosphorus should be paid for his testing

this game needs more players like Phosphoru, I love seeing gimmicky stuff that poses a real challenge to the meta.

Gr8 cast

salute to phosphoru... great person!

Seems completely fair to me that u try to hang on as long as possible. I don't tend to resign either until I'm absolutely certain there is no way back into it for me. I have won enough insane comebacks where others would have resigned to be stubborn on it, but I will still call the gg when I do realise it's inevitable

Stubbed my toe, Can't math. Sorry Hardy.

U forgot about roman scorpions in intro mate

Feel like spreading out a lot farms to each corner you would benefit from the mobility of the scouts A lot more and it would be more difficult to mass the wagons. As soon villagers go idle from the combat or just before sneak them to the corners and build town centers.

We need more of iSIT!!!

This game looks fun but i think is scary

@nateg2701

7 ай бұрын

"Attacking is scary" - IsiT

@manuelpiston

7 ай бұрын

iSIT!!!!!!!!!! We need more of him

Phosphu is a true blue gamer

So now we just go fast feudal agression up until the point where people doin this strat revert back to the original 20 pop uptime?

@Memphisko

7 ай бұрын

yeah since he pushed it to 23 up, i think fast archers with basically any civ should break the strat apart. forces him to towers so castle is late, or he has to abandon the wagon idea and go archery range. or he just dies, but i would bet he goes towers.

He's doing Malians with gbeto for a while now and tried mongols with siege.

@exinexi

7 ай бұрын

Gbetos in siege towers dude is having fun

Red phosphorus is a real legend.

oh no, not again!

nice game ... gg wp

I'd say you'd have about tree fiddy more food as Khmer

What if you'd place a 2ndary TC way to the edge of the map, and he wouldn't catch you?

Wish we could see how things would have gone if you kept knocking at his market. And/or also - blacksmith upgrades for the scouts might have helped?

he should have taken out your stables or forward a vil to build a siege workshop and repair the wagons

Can anyone tell me the difference between a Hussite wagon and an organ gun? To me they look identical in gameplay. I'm looking for an aspect/situation at which the wagon significantly better than an organ gun and one at which the organ gun is better.

@DaddyMouse

7 ай бұрын

The wagons are a lot tankier

@robertlewis6915

7 ай бұрын

Wagons take waaaaay more punishment.

no tc = 0 tc idle time

❤

Donjon on the gold early to deny him or a donjon later to take down the market may have been the deciding factor... still that's the benefit of hindsight.

Would monks work against war wagons? I’m quite uneducated on the matter tbh but just curious

I Wonder how this game would have went when T90 destroyed the Market in the first place. Than you can keep the pressure in his base and farm without bring raided

I watch alot, but don't play so my idea might be crap. Would the civ where you get two TC in fuedel work? Maybe have the second TC somewhere else? So you have to areas he needs to attack than one?

@donjoncraig6804

7 ай бұрын

maybe not the two tc aspect, but the cumans also get rams in feudal and hussite wagons do little damage against rams, so could be possible to take his buildings (like tc and market out) but not the castle cause his vills are under the castle so they just kill rams. If you could get like 5-6 archers under the castle with like 3-4 rams then maybe

This hurt to watch. Sorry T90

can you convince him to make a youtube channel i want to watch more phosPogrus

Loving your videos do you have "thanks" for videos or channel membership? Btw DarkElf is still playing and has over 6k games :D love that guy the commitment is insane!

phosphoru is playing malians now, whats he doing?

I dont think all in scouts is totally dead, but it's def not a hard counter anymore.

hi!

Next time try it with slavs since they buffed their farming

have you tried persian douching him?

I just got AOE DE without rome dlc. Can anyone tell me how do I play these fancy maps like earth or only wood?

@LordvanDarc

7 ай бұрын

Earth can be found under "Real World" Category in the map selector (upper right corner) And smallest maps and wood maps are searchable in the mods section of the game. "Forest nothing" is what you are probaply searching for.

@brunos6599

7 ай бұрын

@@LordvanDarc aha! I'll check it out, thanks!

Next time you get your TC down, you DOUCHE THE MARKET!

probably stupid question but why not FC yourself and do a mangonnel defense?

Scouts and priests to heal?

What does the "YT" mean in the video Thumbnail? Is it just for KZread?

Don't wagons take bonus DMG from vils?

all the time I see this strat i'm just wondering *Why don't you take 10 vills, and sneak them on a woodline with no one around, and just farm in peace*. I mean, he doesent have a scout, he cannot look around cause he doesnt have the time nor the energy to do it, so why not ?

So you didn't kill market with ponies, even with backup. :(

war wagons are still too good, maybe nerf the basic unit more but keep elite as it is?

T90 complaining about how Wagons are so strong when he is fighting a castle age 170 resources unique unit with a feudal age trash unit never ceases to amaze me lol

i feel going fc knights would be better

You gotta decentralize your base and farms in this situation. Sure Khmer would help with that, but you built 3 mills around a massive clump of farms when you should've built those 3 mills in 3 different corners of the map after he killed your TC. Also, don't build 2nd TC right near where the 1st was. Run vills far out and make him chase with those sloooow wagons. By the time he nails your next TC and discovers 2/3 of the new farming spots, you'll have enough scouts to pick off his 'scouting' wagons. If you keep your base consolidated, he can keep his army consolidated, which is his main strength. The more you spread out the better in these. And for pete's sake, kill the market.

Wonder what would've happened if you did take that market down.... Gives a little breathing space while he has to take vils of gold to build a new one, right?

dudeee i almost forgot your channel exist, fot the past 2 month i cant see your upload on my subscription feeds or recomendation feeds

I've been playing AI, and they keep resigning. How do I stop this ? Today the AI resigned and I was only on defence

What about rams?