To all the people criticizing the controller here’s what it’s like for the departure controller. He is likely working by himself at this point. He will have to simultaneously communicate with the tower, the arrival controller, center controller, his boss, and the pilot. Plus there were in fact several stepped on transmissions, so it’s no wonder he didn’t hear everything the first time. I know, I’ve been this guy before.

@RckyMtneer

20 күн бұрын

Don't care about everyone else he needs to talk to. The pilot in distress is his absolute priority. The first advisement of fuel and souls was perfectly clear. Requesting that distressed and very busy pilot to keep repeating himself is completely unacceptable.

@DeltaEntropy

20 күн бұрын

@@RckyMtneerperfectly clear? You can hear it being stepped on? Did we listen to the same audio?

@efoxxok7478

20 күн бұрын

@@RckyMtneer this just shows your ignorance on the workings of the ATC system. The controllers first priority is in fact the safety of all aircraft, not limited to the emergency. The pilot took the controller by surprise giving out this data at the moment he declared. What if at that moment the pilot was in a hard turn back to the airport Roland the opposite direction. Don’t you think telling the tower to clear the runway immediately could be important? Quite normally there is another aircraft on the runway by the time he declared. Every one of those actions I mentioned was designed to get the plane safely back on the runway. The correct thing to do was for the pilot to wait for those questions the only respond if he had time. And again, you don’t know the working environment. Beyond that you hear on the radio, controller have other voices coming through the landline. He can’t always control when someone who needs information from him calls and starts talking. Other than giving out that info when he initially declared both the controller and the pilots did a good job. Neither can be blamed for other pilots and controllers stepping on their transmissions.

@Datamining101

20 күн бұрын

@@RckyMtneer The first call was sort of out of nowhere. "Emergency, souls, fuel." The controller doesn't even have time to process the emergency part before he drops those two values. Missing them and asking for them later seems fine to me, and that frequency seemed pretty messy. We're not hearing what he's hearing anyway, this is coming from a volunteer's receiver somewhere else nearby.

@frollard

20 күн бұрын

Agreed with many... The only thing that really could have been improved was radio etiquette. Being super anal about what information is needed and what can wait, and disambiguating hundred from three zero zero etc. actually calling a pan pan or a mayday instead of a matter of fact casual engine fire. Those hot words tend to cause everyone else to shut the hell up and listen.

Calm, professional, steady, swift, and efficient. Both the ATC and the pilots are excellent.

@mikek5298

20 күн бұрын

I guess you like having to repeat yourself, like the pilots did, multiple times during an emergency. It is people like you who accept mediocrity that are a cancer.

@RckyMtneer

20 күн бұрын

That would be true if the ATC didn't make him repeat souls and fuel so much.

@damedusa5107

18 күн бұрын

@@RckyMtneerlisten again, the co pilot kept stepping on his Mike, kept pressing the button to early and letting off to soon. That’s the reason he couldn’t hear.

Maybe someday ATC and ARFF will be able to electronically link up with the live data on planes that shows the manifest, POB and fuel so they don't have to waste pilot time with these repetitive questions. Or am I being too naive or optimistic?

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

@@BLAB-it5un delta was too fast to reply. He kept stepping on top of atc before atc lifted his finger off the xmit button. When multiple stations on the same freq broadcast at the same time you get those “boop” sounds that you heard.

@pilotbenny

20 күн бұрын

maybe for SOB but the fuel is constantly changing by thousands of pounds an hour

@digitaldyslexia7589

20 күн бұрын

It's not an unrealistic thing to hope either, ATC can see what headings/altitudes the autopilot computer has been spun to when the pilots make changes

@kjdegraaf

20 күн бұрын

​@@pilotbenny That's why they specifically said "live data".

@warren_r

20 күн бұрын

@@pilotbenny Correct -- but even without live transmission of the fuel guages, the total amount of fuel in the aircraft is changing at a rate which can be calculated based on known flight data and meteorological conditions.

I'm sure the gauges confirmed it for Delta, but a good call from Sun Country about the smoke, or lack thereof!

Great first call by the crew. Declared and told ATC what they want. They didn't wait for ATC to ask what they wanted out of them. At that point, ATC works for you.

@tommaxwell429

20 күн бұрын

Yeah, but ATC wasn't ready for the numbers and had to ask again. Pilots were quick on the transmit button as the fuel number kept getting truncated. It takes a few milliseconds for the radios to turn around. I often wonder why ATC doesn't use full duplex radios these days. Other than that, all went well.

@cambrosn

20 күн бұрын

@@tommaxwell429 True. Keep the admin for later.

I watch ALL posts without fail

@VASAviation

20 күн бұрын

I really appreciate that

@storminnormin2570

20 күн бұрын

@@VASAviation when you’re good ……you’re good. End of story. I may not comment all the time. But I’m ALWAYS watching.

@glennoverhoff6589

20 күн бұрын

Me to. Total non pilot, admire the professionalism. Thanks Victor.

Please, all the gods, let the US become a civilised nation and adopt ICAO standards for ATC & pilots

@byronhenry6518

19 күн бұрын

10-4 good buddy, tally ho on the bogey, I got em on the fish finder, I’m 4.4 FOR 14,000. I’ll tell you hwat imma declare an emergency instead of Mayday because it’s July, not May, dummy.

@NBT2469

19 күн бұрын

From your lips to God's ears! I know, I know......which God? LMAO!

@tfaudree

19 күн бұрын

And get rid of this notion that we have to talk like auctioneers on the radio.

@iatsd

19 күн бұрын

​@@tfaudree That particular US ATC dick waving activity is something I dislike intensely. It's one of several reasons why I refuse to fly in US airspace any more.

Love to listen to the pros !!

300!

Always great to see this kind of ballet play out. Not sure why "Souls on Board" can't be published at takeoff by the cabin crew to a central database. Pilots don't have time for that shit.

@Zamiroh

20 күн бұрын

Yeah I do think it would be helpful. Could even add pob and fuel to the transponder if possible. It's hard for the pilots and equally for the controllers (often when they ask for something again it's likely multiple comms going on same time)

@MeMe-gm9di

20 күн бұрын

I think especially stuff like "Fuel" is usually something you can guesstimate well enough from the flight plan. It just took off, it's not gonna be empty. It's on fire, so it's not gonna stay up there for long enough for that fact to change. Souls on board I understand, in case of evacuation you want to be able to count if you got everyone. But still, ugh.

@lanceanz

20 күн бұрын

Makes sense. That would also avoid the inconsistent ways the response is given to ATC: e.g. (a) number of passengers then number of crew, (b) number of crew then number of passsengers, (c) souls on board (single number - which is I believe what is being asked for), (d) souls on board followed by the number of crew, (e) different ways of referring to "souls". It's not uncommon for ATC to query the response to that question.

@hatpeach1

20 күн бұрын

There should be a big red button in the cockpit for commercial pilots that reads "Declare Emergency," and then the plane should transmit the souls on board and fuel repeatedly to an emergency frequency. Cameras mounted in the wheel wells and facing the engines should also transmit images of the landing gear and engines. Pilots shouldn't have to transmit or rely on things like "I don't see any smoke, Delta" to know if they're on fire.

@iatsd

19 күн бұрын

@@MeMe-gm9di Fuel is actually a bit of an open question. Where did they come from and where are the next going and where do those places fall in the carriers refueling planning. It might be full for the day. It might be empty as the last flight of the day for that aircraft. It might be the start of the day, but refueling at the next airport because their charges are lower. That said, the airline itself has all that info at departure, so a simple data exchange should be possible with ATC. After all, the airlines send it to the FAA in real time anyway. Why not make it available on demand from ATC as well as back to the FAA?

I like the ATC confirmed the fuel amount multiple times when he is not able to get the fuel amount correctly.

Victor We Gotta see more atc's and pilots mention you in a compilation

For all you pilots out there! ARFF needs the fuel amount pounds. We can convert this to what we want which is gallons. Amount of fuel tells us nothing as every aircraft consumes fuel at different rates.

@oooohkaay

20 күн бұрын

On the other hand, ATC appreciates knowing the time until you fall out of the sky. Albeit in this case it's pretty useless. Fire is almost always an immediate landing, and they just took off. But if it were enroute or closer to the destination, that helps a lot.

@iatsd

19 күн бұрын

News flash: if you watch these videos you see ATC asking in all sorts of ways - pounds, time, whatever. In at least half of them you then see ATC fvcking about and asking again in a different format and, all too often, fvcking about even further by asking multiple times at each stage/controller. If the US would just adopt the fvcking ICAO standards in whole for ATC and aircraft, instead of having their own special-for-the-US-only shitty standards, then a lot of this shite would cease.

@flomoose7315

19 күн бұрын

@@iatsd😂😂🤣

@petesmith1924

8 күн бұрын

You ain’t gonna get pounds. Our gauges are in metric tonnes and I can give you in hours/ minutes. If you think when I have an engine fire I’m going to be working out how many lbs or US Gals of fuel I have on board you are going to be very disappointed. I’ll tell you the tonnes or duration if you like, you can do the conversion whilst you are sat there for 15 minutes with nothing else to do.

Delta pilot response with left engine fire = same response to me spilling my coffee on my shirt, just another day.

The pilot shouldn’t have thrown fuel & sob in on the initial call when the controller isn’t going to be able to focus on it properly. There’s a reason these usually go so much smoother, and doing things out of order just fvkcs up the whole rhythm like you see here.

300.

@bumrocky

20 күн бұрын

This Is....DELTA!!!!!

@russell2952

20 күн бұрын

He was asked multiple times and he still didn't say TREE like he was supposed to.

@MeppyMan

20 күн бұрын

@@russell2952that’s not why it wasn’t heard. Delta (and a few others) were too quick on the mic after the controller finished talking and stepped on the transmission. When two people are transmitting at the same time neither can hear each other.

@oooohkaay

20 күн бұрын

300 is also a non-standard way of saying 5hrs. It's like saying 9000 yard final instead of 5 miles. Also, any pilot should know Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. If you are busy with an emergency and can't communicate effectively, don't! Focus on flying the plane to where it needs to be first. Also, rocketing in with that first transmission with all the details, means he had to look up those details before declaring. The most important transmission isn't fuel or souls, it's Emergency, Nature of emergency, and intentions.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS an issue with fuel, Even when he tells him on the initial call, he has to repeat it several times. And he just took off, so the amount is plenty!

@Chat562

20 күн бұрын

It's not for flying time. It's for how big the fire's gonna be.

@mattc.310

20 күн бұрын

The pilot was "quick keying" their radio over the ATC transmissions. ATC couldn't hear the number because the pilot was transmitting it before ATC had released the mic switch.

@craig7350

20 күн бұрын

@@Chat562 Yes it is for flying time

@Chat562

20 күн бұрын

@@craig7350 No it is not for flying time. It's for how much foam the fire trucks need.

@craig7350

20 күн бұрын

@@Chat562 NO, its about flying time!

What app do you use to show all of the targets on a previous timeline?

@VASAviation

20 күн бұрын

My own software

Who kept keying their mic while Delta was trying to talk? This made it a little harder for ATC to understand what they were saying.

@LieseFury

20 күн бұрын

delta.

@MeppyMan

20 күн бұрын

Delta was too fast to key and talk, or the controller too slow to release after talking. Or both :)

These ATC guys need to write this crap down instead of continuously asking the same questions over and over. Good grief, it drives me crazy as a pilot.

Need to find the software this guy uses to make vids to just watch air traffic in general

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

@@aristarchinski272 google is your friend. Ads-b exchange and air nav data and many more

@VASAviation

20 күн бұрын

It's my own software haha

Delta getting the United treatment now 😅

@storminnormin2570

20 күн бұрын

@@chasesawyer8087 as they should

@storminnormin2570

20 күн бұрын

@@chasesawyer8087 as they should.

What is wrong with delta transmission

@persistentwind

20 күн бұрын

Either too strong and overloading the front end of the receiver or misstuned transmitter... likely the former, considering later transmissions were fine.

@SB-cz9vo

20 күн бұрын

Nothing. Someone is repeatedly stepping on them. ATC might be a bit slow to release the mic, as it happened with Sun Country too.

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

@@SB-cz9voit’s delta. He keeps stepping on top of atc before atc fully finished broadcasting

@PiskeyFaeri

20 күн бұрын

Chipmunks

@Tumleren

20 күн бұрын

Delta keeps stepping on ATC

Palm Beach is still asking for fuel in minutes...

It seems like there's an engine fire or issue every other day lately.

@byronhenry6518

19 күн бұрын

There’s somewhere around 100,000 flights every single day, all around the world (including military, GA, and cargo). With that large of a sample size, you’re bound to have some type of issue with at least one of those planes every day.

Not much fault with ATC, but in this case (and many others) the use of Quindar Tones would help to authenticate that it's a ground transmission and that the controller has released the mic switch. The latter avoids the over-stepping that was evident in the Delta flight transmissions. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quindar_tones

20 күн бұрын

Quindar tones weren't audible to Mission Control and I believe they were filtered out for the astronauts, too. You're thinking of "roger beeps".

If only there was a standardized phraseology that would simplify the transmissions and avoid situation like overhearing and missunderstanding..... Oh wait.

My commute to work caught on fire what’s new

Man, Airbus is on the channel a lot. Glad no one is getting hurt or killed. All airliners are being used to the max right now. The maintainers have to be getting tired.

Is it just me, or are there a lot of Delta flights having engine issues lately....?

I have not heard a single ATC tape in which an emergency was declared when the controller did not ask for fuel and souls multiple times. It's inexcusable and a major flaw in the system.

@LieseFury

20 күн бұрын

the pilot stepped on atc every single time he called in. the atc did not hear how many hundred minutes of fuel because the only transmissions he heard were "BOOP-hundred minutes of fuel"

@VASAviation

20 күн бұрын

You should watch more of my videos then

@bradowen761

20 күн бұрын

@@VASAviation I watch enough to know your captions aren't great... For example 5:57 ≠ "when you get out there so they can taxi into the gate" - it was "When they get the all clear from you they'll taxi into the gate." But thanks for the channel, most of the content is really good.

@bbh6925

20 күн бұрын

Big overstatement of the problem. Controller would have heard it the second time if the pilot wasnt talking before he keyed up.

Had to give fuel FOUR times, number of souls two times. Awesome job, ATC! Really letting those pilots focus on the emergency!

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

Hear those beeps and boops? That’s because delta kept stepping on top of atc before atc finished their transmission.

@DrBreakalot

20 күн бұрын

The pilot kept stepping on the controller every time, so the first part kept getting cut off

@boahneelassmal

20 күн бұрын

I assume the interference wasn't just on the liveatc receiver. could be atc kept the button pressed a smidge too long and delta was exceptionally quick on their button to respond.

@user-gx1nc6gu6h

20 күн бұрын

He gave fuel on his very first call. Either way, should be assumed a lot of gas and a lot of people. How about we get a head count after we get off. 🙄 In the meantime, keep aircraft away from me, and vectors when I'm ready.

@tarquinmcbeard

20 күн бұрын

@mikek5298 You can literally hear in the video that the pilot transmitted an inaudible number. What are you expecting ATC to do to magically fix that?

Well...Boeings fault no doubt!

@tin2001

19 күн бұрын

Of course it is.... If they could build competent planes, Delta wouldn't need this Airbus that caught fire. 😂

@iocat

19 күн бұрын

Boeing's work building engines for Airbuses leavea a lot to be desired, no doubt.

@vincentsutter1071

18 күн бұрын

Agreed, the illogical conclusions of many is exhausting.

Who keeps stepping on him while he’s transmitting? That is the most annoying thing. Everyone hears an emergency stay the hell off the mic!

So the first call is “Mayday Mayday Mayday Delta 1254 Left Hand engine fire request immediate return”…what is with these pilots refusing to say “mayday”, it bullshit.

@BobbyGeneric145

20 күн бұрын

You ever had an engine burning up while the other is pumping out 30k of thrust?

@Quotenwagnerianer

20 күн бұрын

An controllable engine fire is not a mayday. It's a pan pan.

@BobbyGeneric145

20 күн бұрын

@@Quotenwagnerianer so when my qrh says "declare an emergency"?

@stevecummings2703

20 күн бұрын

@@Quotenwagnerianer bollocks

@Quotenwagnerianer

20 күн бұрын

@@BobbyGeneric145 You say PAN PAN and not Mayday, Mayday.

The emergency aircraft pilot needs to work on radio discipline. Clipping the beginning of virtually all of his transmissions by not waiting for ATC to finish theirs.

Why so many A320s having issues lately

@buckhorncortez

20 күн бұрын

Boeing's fault...

@patrickgroeneveld2340

20 күн бұрын

There are 3724 A320s in the air at this very moment, that is almost 40% of all aircraft flying now. Given that, it is no surprise.

@skippynj1979

20 күн бұрын

Mechanicals happen. No matter who made them.

@skippynj1979

20 күн бұрын

Airlines beat the snot out of aircraft. They fly all day everyday. There are very advanced maintenance programs. Which contribute to the excellent dispatch reliability we have in the national airline system. My companies aircraft fly approximately 18 hours a day average. It's impressive

@DeltaEntropy

20 күн бұрын

They’re getting old. Happens to all airframes.

Wow, an airbus having problems? Who would of thought? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

@VASAviation

20 күн бұрын

Would have*

@Quotenwagnerianer

20 күн бұрын

Yeah, or "would've" but never "would of".

@sweetdaddydee1314

20 күн бұрын

Wow, the airbus fan boys are also the grammar police now? 🙄🙄

Something really needs to be done about pilots NOT using appropriate language to declare an emergency. Extremely irritating.

@airwave2592

19 күн бұрын

It’s an American culture issue. Declaring an emergency works in the US but the problems begin when they take that terminology with them abroad with language barriers.

ATC is incompetent these days!

Engine fire? Boy, these Boeing issues are just getting scarier... /s

@JediKnyghte

20 күн бұрын

A320 is not a Boeing product.

@persistentwind

20 күн бұрын

​@@JediKnyghte/s = sarcasm...

@persistentwind

20 күн бұрын

I was gonna post the same!

@jonathankleinow2073

20 күн бұрын

@@JediKnyghte simpsons_thats_the_joke.gif

@BLAB-it5un

20 күн бұрын

Engines are not made by Boeing.

Boeing had similar issues with quality in the 70s. It finally lead to a DC 10 engine breaking off on takeoff killing all. It is a real famous crash

@majorminor3367

20 күн бұрын

That was a Mcdonnell Douglas aircraft, not boeing and faulty maintenance.

@jonmoceri

20 күн бұрын

You realize that Douglas built the DC-10 and NOT Boeing. The engine came off the DC-10 American Airlines Flight 191, because of an improper procedure used to mount and dismount the engine and not due to engineering issues.

@nikh9080

20 күн бұрын

That's embarrassing herb

@russell2952

20 күн бұрын

You do realise Boeing doesn't make engines

@somapersona

19 күн бұрын

​@@majorminor3367 which runs Boeing today

Airbus-lovers will blame this on Boeing as well

@phillee2814

20 күн бұрын

Neither Boeing nor Airbus makes engines.

Controller seems slightly deaf - stricken plane forced to repeat basic information several times.Not good enough!

@persistentwind

20 күн бұрын

Sounds like both the controller and the pilot like to talk at the same time... send both to internet jail.

@Tekker2234

20 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure that this audio doesn't come directly from ATC, it's generally picked up from antennae set up around airports by aviation enthusiasts. It is very likely that the receivers that picked up the plane's transmission were better positioned to pick it up at that point than the tower's receivers. (Some evidence of this: several of the transmissions from the aircraft as it was climbing out were extremely garbled while the tower responded to them as if they could hear just fine.) It is also true that they were stepped on several times. That didn't help at all.

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

@@Tekker2234 yes but in this instance the source has nothing to do with it. Hear those beeps and boops in between atc and delta responding? That’s because delta kept stepping on top of atc’s transmissions before atc finished broadcasting. When two stations on the same frequency key their mics you get interference like that. Delta was too fast to respond before atc lifted his finger off the broadcast button.

@SeligTiles

20 күн бұрын

@@markpunt9638 no. Nothing to do with controller. Delta kept stepping on top of him before controller finished.

@tarquinmcbeard

20 күн бұрын

@markpunt9638 You can literally hear in the video that the pilot transmitted an inaudible number. Only thing that's not good enough is your common sense. It's not ATC's fault if the pilot makes a mistake transmitting.

That’s why “Communicate” is the last priority of the PIC. Aviate, and navigate are the focus. I would’ve not bothered responding to the controller