www.squarespace.com/rogue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code ROGUE ⸺ chapters ⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺ 0:00 - The Callous Daoboys grace us! 0:58 - Mathcore = Math rock + hardcore 1:56 - 4/4 and 3/4 times 3:56 - Changing time signatures mid-song 5:17 - Visualizing 4/4 6:21 - 5/4 and 6/4 times 7:44 - 7/8 time 9:23 - "People wanna hear s*** that sounds cool" 10:20 - Changing times and 9/8 12:35 - Quiz! "Blackberry DeLorean" 15:05 - Quiz! "Beautiful Dude Missile" 16:47 - What album should people start with? 18:05 - squarespace.com/rogue for 10% off 18:56 - cta + bonus clip "normal music, huh?" ⸺ support us ⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺⸺ Directly fund the show through our Patreon!  patreon.com/modernrogue You can also get Modern Rogue shirts through our shop.  scamstuff.com/products/mr-shirts Need a new computer? You can get a discount by getting one from Doghouse Systems and it helps us too!  doghousesystems.com/rogue  Use promo code “ROGUE” and get a free 500gb SSD now! See the full credits and links in the description.

@1218Draco

Жыл бұрын

Favorite mathematic rock song is “Frame by Frame” by King Crimson. The guitar riff is done by two players, one in 7/8 the other in 13/8, so it’s like a delaying echo as they go around and then synchronize.

@TheCorruptionKing

Жыл бұрын

Episode idea...find "The anarchist cook book". An episode about it, and then yall could try some ideas from the book.

@NeverDieAloneMusic

Жыл бұрын

15 years?! Has it really been that long since Scam School?! Damn I'm old lol.

Daoboys been putting out banger after banger for years now. I'm surprised and glad you got them on the show

@ModernRogue

Жыл бұрын

Daoboys are amazing!!

As a musician, hearing Brian say "3/3 time" was viscerally painful

@timg335

Жыл бұрын

3 third notes...

@Ramonatho

Жыл бұрын

Alternative you can subdivide it as 12 sublets per 3 quarter notes if you wanna get really stupid with it

@Aksel27

Жыл бұрын

I guess it would just be measure of triplets? Sorry, "third notes".

@josephrumbaugh671

Жыл бұрын

Wow thanks for the disclaimer lmaoooo

@thisiscait

Жыл бұрын

As a fellow muso and composer... I don't care! Enjoy it. Anyone who doesn't play or create music doesn't really need to know.

Mathcore is jazz for metal heads. Edit: didn't know they were gonna reference jazz in the video, but right on

@killerkonnat

Жыл бұрын

Anything "core" is not for metalheads.

@spartansquid5931

Жыл бұрын

​@@killerkonnat Bull, there's some good core stuff that's pretty heavy. Bleed From Within for example.

@f67739

11 ай бұрын

most people who listen to metal also listen to hardcore you goof stop acting like they're exclusive clubs lmao@@killerkonnat

@hereticdeth7986

3 ай бұрын

This genre is more like jazz for hardcore kids

It's a crime how you two don't pop up on my front page anymore! I thought that you guys stopped making videos or something! Now I know to come directly to the source! Keep up the great work guys!

@ModernRogue

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man! -Brian

@jamesmccann8506

Жыл бұрын

@@ModernRogue Yeah, that's been happening to me to, and not just for you guys. Seems my subscriptions are just spamming me with shorts - i see plenty of them on my feed, but i prefer the longer videos to be honest.

@rexromana

Жыл бұрын

Same, had too look em up

This wasn't the crossover I expected, but I'm so happy for it.

@The_Other_Ghost

Жыл бұрын

I was assuming that this was a tech gadget or something named after the type of music.

@freshtildeathproductions3718

Жыл бұрын

I thought I was a fever dream when I came across it in the middle of the night.

@SaltNBattery

Жыл бұрын

Oh... This is what happens when hipsters gentrify hardcore?.. Interesting. I was more into the Norma Jean, Comback Kid, ETID, AILD, The Warriors, Donnybrook early to mid 2000’s hardcore. I guess the "ironic hardcore" came after my time?

@The_Other_Ghost

Жыл бұрын

@@SaltNBattery Or just people like Botch trying to make it harder to dance to (If I remember correctly) or something.Who cares where they get their coffee, it's music. I've met all sorts of people in the HC scene, it's people who are gatekeepers that can kill the mood, don't be that guy.

@anotherstupidhipster3551

Жыл бұрын

@@SaltNBattery I've got all those bands t-shirts too, dude. Been in this game since I was a little little kid. Don't be an old-head, embrace change.

The Modern Rogue and The Callous Daoboys is not a crossover I expected to happen. As someone who's generally not a maker of improvised weapons or avid survivalist, I'm not used to TMR talking about things I actually have some prior knowledge about.

Never expected Danny Carey and Hatebreed on a Modern Rogue show. Absolutely love it. Do more!

@channtastic

Ай бұрын

Hatebreed is S tier

These guys picked up where DEP left off and I love them. ❤❤❤

i love that the first hardcore band Carson threw out was Have Heart! Tool is sorta the big infection starter on mathcore. they use math to influence the music, so it's approachable. beyond them, anything by either of the Kinsella brothers (American Football, Owen, Cap'n' Jazz, Joan Of Arc, a few other small projects) is a great start on where it starts to venture away from math influencing the art into how can non traditional guitar tunings and time signatures be used in an artistic way. also getting a hang of the general sound of hardcore (Have Heart is a GREAT example). one of the biggest bands in this style is Converge.

Correction: The dude said Hardcore was a subgenre of metal but it is in fact a subgenre of punk. Two completely different things.

@peterptchronic9696

Жыл бұрын

Yep, mathcore was more born out of metalcore, so I think that's where the confusion sometimes comes in.

@Motsham

Жыл бұрын

@@peterptchronic9696 Correct!!

@xskycamefalling6455

3 ай бұрын

How did it come from metalcore were both not coming up around the same time. Influence from punk/hardcore/metal. Thinking like roarsach etc. they blossomed around the same time

Dillinger Escape Plan, Botch, Vein, Seeyouspacecowboy, Drowningman, Every Time I die, and Converge are bands worth checking out. Hardcore isn't metal (though that is the easiest way to describe it for outsiders), it's either a type of punk or a fusion genre of hardcore punk and metal (heavy hardcore). That said, bring them back in the future.

@notreally-sf3df

7 ай бұрын

actually neck

@oddblood-

7 ай бұрын

The number twelve looks like you... and Heavyheavylowlow are two other bands I would highly recommend listening to.

@The_Other_Ghost

7 ай бұрын

@@notreally-sf3df I've just met too many bands.

@Rusted_Empire

4 ай бұрын

Botch and TDEP are GOATED

@terremoto6663

2 ай бұрын

The Hirsch effect (German Band), pupil slicer (British band) are amazing to me as an old DEP-head.

love daoboys never expected to see them on this channel

People should definitely give "IWrestledABearOnce" a listen as another mathcore band

@hdonahue01

Жыл бұрын

Their former lead singer, Courtney LaPlante, is now in another awesome band called Spiritbox. Highly recommend them.

@muradinstormforge

Жыл бұрын

I saw them at a concert in Atlanta. We asked them to go to Waffle House with us, but they said no and we just went with Miss May I instead... Still cool as shit.

@SaltNBattery

Жыл бұрын

Oh... This is what happens when hipsters gentrify hardcore.. Interesting. I was more into the Norma Jean, Comback Kid, ETID, AILD, The Warriors, Donnybrook. I guess the "ironic hardcore" came after my time?

@haterfs

Ай бұрын

​@@SaltNBatterydawg what are you on

@SaltNBattery

Ай бұрын

@@haterfs Did you just respond to a year old comment expecting anyone to know what you're talking about? What are YOU on weirdo?

I'm super happy to see more music content! Also picking a subgenre that's not palatable to mainstream audiences made little ol' metalhead me happy.

Never would have expected this lol. Just saw them a couple months ago, super sick band!

@wiredweird

Жыл бұрын

wow! 😲😲

This is hilarious. This is basically every time I've tried to explain mathcore to someone

"Can I swear on this, or no?" Heavy pause. Meanwhile, Brian, just a few minutes prior: "Get the fuckin' rhythm! Get the fuckin' rhythm!"

I can't believe Brian doesn't think Core is STP's greatest album. I'm 21 and it was the album that made me fall in love with them like 5 years ago when my mom put it on *cassette* when I helped her clean the basement one day and we found it.

Common Daoboys W

What an unexpected collab!

This is the silliest thing I've ever anticipated.

@hexxed4245

Жыл бұрын

Literally

@HoodKombo

Жыл бұрын

How anyone could have possibly anticipated this crossover is unreal 😅

Carson's face at the 4:45 mark; "33 time"... from his Expressions alone you just know he's a funny guy.

I've been in 2 mathcore bands it's fun but god damn it's practice is brutal. If you're interested listen to bands like this try: "The Number 12 Looks Like You" or "Heavy Heavy Low Low" if you're looking for a heavy rock version with little to no screaming try: "Tera Melos" or "Disheveled Cuss" or "Melt Banana"

@noesunyoutuber7680

Жыл бұрын

The Fall of Troy is a good fairly popular band that kinda splits the difference.

@Bearorgan

Жыл бұрын

@@noesunyoutuber7680 love The Fall of Troy their definitely a mix. they have albums were over half the songs are in a standard melody then with their latest release they made 2 versions of each song on the record each in different timings. crazy stuff.

@PatLund

Жыл бұрын

Those are all terrible band names.

Carson’s face on “3/3 time”😂

Oh my god I started laughing so hard when Brian was trying to count Blackberry DeLorean 😂 fantastic

One letter away from being the Caillous

Time signature is always multiples two on the bottom, which tells you the note values in a measure. Brian is not actually wrong in that there can be signatures like 3/3. Those are called irrational signatures, and while they do exist, they're mostly used just because some composer is screwing around and wants to write something out in some fancy, unique way because there's going to be a way to write the same thing using a rational time signature. A lot of time signatures overlap and sound exactly the same to an untrained ear anyway, and are mostly just for the musicians reading the score to know what the piece is supposed to sound like. I was a band geek in high school and learned a lot about music, but I got into punk rock and hardcore in my later teen years because I wanted to get away from that kind of structure because it was stifling to me, which was really more the environment than music itself. I wanted nothing to do with music that needed to be notated for a long time. Then I got into math rock in my 30s and I love it. I'm not so much into the "mathcore" bands, but there are some I enjoy. Tera Melos, Tik Code, Don Caballero, Ghosts and Vodka; those are more my kind of jam. Sadly, math rock was already sort of declining by the time I got into it but there's still good bands around with more coming into the scene on occasion, especially on the international side of things. I think the reason being that it's a lot of work that requires a lot of passion for not much monetary return with only a small, niche fanbase.

So basically metal music with weird rhythm and beats. Aka Animals as Leaders, Meshuggah, The Dillinger Escape Plan and Nickelback ! :) Animals As Leaders - An Infinite Regression from 1:45 in the song. Enjoy figuring out the beat. You're welcome !

@noesunyoutuber7680

Жыл бұрын

I'd say Meshuggah and Animals as Leaders are more closely related to Progressive Metal, they're Mathcore-adjacent. Dillinger, though, they're textbook Mathcore.

strange choice of topic but im all for it this is awesome

We needed a chalkboard

"Metal Crossword Puzzle," new-band-name-called-it!

THIS IS SUCH A COOL COMBO, I LOVE MATHROCK

That's it, I'm going to get a tattoo across my chest that says; I Never Say No to the Oboe

I wasn't expecting this to ever happen, much like the Walcom videos, but once again, I am happy it did, especially as a metal head. It's cool to see how this stuff evolves over time, from seeing Justin Robert Young wearing a Callous Daoboys shirt and saying "that's neat", to "holy sh*t they did a video together, why didn't anyone tell me?" We've seen Ouija and mystical episodes, we've seen a rock/metal episode, we've had video game episodes, now we just the DnD and satanic ritual episode to complete the full 80's/90's satanic panic arc of Modern Rogue

In high school band, we were able to play some grade 4.5 (max 6 grades) music. Often 7/8 time is sub divided by (12+12+123) or (123+12+12). 9/8 would be (123+123+123).

Iirc, in high school, one of the songs we performed (Tiger, Tiger) chnaged time signature nearly every measure, between 3/4, 4/4, and 5/4

Love the Callous Daoboys. Really love watching their development on their records.

I used to go to shows and one of the members of a band had a paint pen/big sharpie. It was progessive death metal and he would do artwork TO the music, jump in the pit with his canvas, the entire thing. It was great. I wish I could remember which band it was my 13-15 year old days of heavy metal shows blend together a bit sometimes because it was shows at small clubs every weekend but this sort of weird depth to music reminded me of those guys

You'll find a lot of unusual time signatures in prog rock, too, which Brian and Jason may be more familiar with. One of my favorites is "Turn It On Again" from Genesis.

i LOVE the callous daoboys i clicked this so fast

3:32 aaaaaaaa I was so fricken happy to hear a tool reference

so interesting!

15/16s...HELLO! Did somebody say Rush? 😂

"220. 221. Whatever it takes." Great call Jason

Celebrity therapist is incredible, one of my favourite albums from 2022.

I recently got into POLYPHIA who also call themselves MATHCORE.. I will definitely be going down this rabbit hole.

@seniledad6489

Жыл бұрын

Check out "The Dillinger Escape Plan"

@jakeison2968

Жыл бұрын

If you just got into Polyphia, do NOT sleep on their first 2 projects "Inspire" and "Resurrection" the latter of which is only available on youtube. Very different from what they do now, but equally amazing. Oh, and Resurrection actually has vocals :)

The most amazing part of this video for me was that Jason has heard of Wembley Stadium

As a new fan of mathrock and a fan of metal I will definitely check out this band

@The_Other_Ghost

Жыл бұрын

Check out Botch's We Are The Romans.

Shout-out to the bug in the studio on the blue background at 15:30 - I thought it was a smudge on my monitor at first XD You can see it fly away at 15:47 and it looks like Brian thought he saw something move right after.

"221" is a sneaky amazing one liner. What a rad video.

came to love this band after you guys introduced me to the genre 👌👌 current obsession. Celebrity Therapist is already top 10 albums of my year so far...

How can you discuss 5/4 without mentioning the original Mission Impossible theme and how they destroyed it for the movies by making it 4/4.

5/4 is the time scale used for the mission impossible theme

Wait until they find out about power violence

"...rote memorization..." ...so good...

hahaha I've been into mathcore for a couple years now. It's my favorite heavy music. Listen to 'The Number Twelve Looks Like You"

@IronGoldDiamond

Жыл бұрын

Grandfather RIPS.

@graysonmusic.

Жыл бұрын

@@IronGoldDiamond fuck yea

This is the vid that got my sub. Thanks!

My drummer/nerd friend has a button that's a bass clef and pi/4. Get on his level. ;)

Nice episode but I'm more interested in how Jason doesn't smell while he's on ice, perhaps you should make that your next video. Cheers Cobs

I met Amber from this band. Super nice woman, also the band is amazing live.

shocked and appalled that the fall of troy was not mentioned.

I certainly had my mathcore phase (animals as leaders, polyphia, etc.) but now I like to play a more dreamy, easy listening math rock style. I'd recommend bands like covet, chon, or floral for some "softer" stuff.

If you want a lot of time changes, listen to Circumstances by Rush

@Dragobot7

Жыл бұрын

Or most things by Tool or everything from Dream Theater

@The_Other_Ghost

Жыл бұрын

You should check out the Canadian band Counterparts. Do they do lots of time changes? Not sure. Are they a Canadian hardcore band thought to be a Rush tribute band? Yes.

Looking through my subscriptions and did not expect to see this one in the slightest.

This is... painful to watch 😂 Props to Daoboys for trying. God damn.

The Callous Daoboys

Carson got the Halo drip

Love the little Wikipedia jingle 😆

This is not a collab that I expected.

Who knew the guy I was learning magic tricks from at 8 years old would be interviewing this band. Life’s a trip lol

knowing Brandt uses REAPER makes me very happy

it can only be incredibly nerdy and i love it already

"That's hip hop" SO TRUE AND ALSO BRUTAL!

Descending into the metal rabbit hole is not what I expected but is very welcome. Would love to see Brian's head explode listening to Car Bomb

ok, this was fantastic and I wasn't expecting this ;-)

I WANT MY MTV!

A really good song that uses 7/8 time is a song called "Kinetic Dances". I played it in high school, and the way I learned to play it was "1 2; 1 2; 1 2 3" A tricky time signature, but a fun one nonetheless

I would like to know why TF the KZread algorithm hid a MR video about mathcore from me. Looking at the stats... this got buried...

@ModernRogue

Жыл бұрын

There's only one defense: Turn on the "Play all the episodes" playlist and leave your computer running, playing the videos all day.

Awe yes . The callous are so daoboys.

people: music nowadays are too simple music nowadays: polyrhythms galore baybeee

Never thought I’d hear Danny Carey or Tool mentioned in a MR video! Very happy about this!

I love how perplexed they looked when asked if he coukd swear.

The "sometimes its good enough" part had me cackling

yo. Checked this band out - they're absolutely INSANE. Big recommend!

7/8 is so fun to play in

A fairly well known example of 5/4 in classical music is Mars from the Planets by Holst.

mathcore type shit lets gooooo

Somebody correct me, but a specific example of a song in 5/4 time is Vicarious by Tool?

This was fun. I was caught off-gauard by Jason's random Danny Carey / Tool and King Crimson references. Definitely some of my favorite bands. King Crimson is jazz - well, okay, it's rock, but it may as well be jazz. Careful, don't fall into the prog rabbit hole, you'll never come out.

*yells in Meshuggah 23/16*

I love Interstate Love Song too, don't worry

16:48, Brian's effin reaction, he's so lost he starts lookin to the background crew for help after that My Dixie Wrecked comment. just, "What?"

Good sound I'm checking it out.reminds me of meshugah

@banerifthammer4608

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm into it!

i once made a piece that a music friend said was in 29/16, which i still find funny to this day

Stick around to the end. You'll be glad u did.

“Hardcore, a subgenera of metal” and with that, a thousand hXc kids scream out in agony. Please someone pit karate this dude lmao.

Does the guy on the right have a magic KZread channel too?

Everyone at their concerts looking like the Julia Roberts math equations gif.

I also thought this was going to be a metal version of School House Rock.