I think a key point about learning vocabulary through immersion is that you don't just 'learn' the words and language, you learn the more subtle context of the word usage at the same time. In other words, rather than having your mind match up the word with the English translation, you will use the word as native speakers use it. Very few words truly 'match' exactly the dictionary translation. This is even more so with casual phrases and colloquialisms.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Exactly Philip! Direct translation miss the nuance, though they can seem quicker in the earlier stages I appreciate

I'm a fan of comprehensible input, but I'm not a purist. I sometimes look up grammar rules or vocabulary, and so far my brain has not melted. I spend most of my time on comprehensible input because I find it enjoyable. If it happens to be effective, that's just icing on the cake.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

CI is definitely more fun! I was reading a paper of Krashen’s where he advocated for perhaps some grammar study later in order to monitor but the vast majority was input. I may with Spanish at some stage but currently I’m just enjoying the process 😁

For non mainstream languages it is so hard to find comprehensible input that there is no way around active vocab study. Also active study is more time efficient for the purpose of learning words. Just check your Anki stats. You will most likely not reach the amount of words learned through input that you learn actively. Input and active study should be combined. They both serve different purposes

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I can imagine. Crosstalk is always a good option!

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

Be very careful of Anki stats. they tell you how good you are at anki, not how good you are at the language. Language is not a collection of words, its a pattern and context. I'd recommend looking at the interview on the KoreKara podcast with the education expert Justin Sung. He has a very clear explanation of why the excessive use of Anki (not just in language) can be very deceptive and can block the process of higher order learning (look up Blooms typology of learning to see what this means).

Love your videos -- keep it up with the great content! Also I'm really digging the colored lighting in your shots in your videos. Now I want pretty lights 😅

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Kev!

I know every damn thing you are talking about, but...man aren't your videos the coolest thing on the internet. Love the minimalistic style. Love the presentation style. The transition between different headshots gives it so much variety. You, sir... have earned a new subscriber!

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Jamal! You are a very kind man. Thanks so much buddy. Still learning! Appreciate the sub 🙏

Great video Matt. I found your channel through the shout out from Days of French 'n' Swedish. I'm also learning both Spanish and Mandarin Chinese. It took me a really long time to figure out the advice you're sharing here, I made similar mistakes trying to drill beginner vocabulary with flashcards, which was an especially horrible mistake for Chinese. (I think flashcards might have more value at a higher level when we start encountering less common vocabulary that we might not see again for a long time). On the note of making comprehensible input out of natural resources, have you taken a look at the browser add-on "Language Reactor"? It adds a pop-up dictionary to Netflix/KZread subtitles and provides support for bi-lingual subtitles (that can be blurred out until you click to reveal them) and keyboard shortcuts to jump between or repeat subtitle lines. (Edit: Just got around to your older videos and saw you already gave it a mention!) Looking forward to following your channel more, keep at it!

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Yeah, I really didn’t enjoy flashcards and sentence mining. Some people love it though so I’m certainly not saying it doesn’t work!

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

If you know the KoraKara podcast on YT I'd recommend looking at an interview with study coach Justin Sung. Its a good back and forth on the merits (or otherwise) of using anki for more advanced learners. In short, he argues that its an inefficient system for deeper (as opposed to shallower) knowledge. The hosts of the podcast are strong anki enthusiasts, so you can make your own mind up. Imo anki only has value for acquiring vocabulary within sentences, not individual words.

@Ceonsamea

Жыл бұрын

@@philipdavis7521 Nice, thanks for the recommendation!

Hi Matt. Another great video. I am still a little conflicted. I am at B1 level Turkish and now use much more input through stories and dialogues but feel guilty if I am still not reviewing my vocabulary and grammar regularly. However the reason that I now prefer CI is that it is simply more enjoyable and does not feel like studying all the time. I am still not sure if I was learning a new language I could go straight to a story without a grasp of vocabulary or grammar rules. Keep up your own good input which is becoming a good motivation tool.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thanks John. Really glad you liked it. I think the benefit of CI is that it is more enjoyable and consequently we end up having more time with the TL because we get pleasure from the process

Great video! I just crossed the 1000 hour mark on Dreaming Spanish a couple weeks ago. It’s the primary source of CI that I used over the last 2 years and I tried to adhere to DS recommendations. Very much worth it! All that is needed is massive amounts of comprehensible input from beginning to conversational fluency, I can attest to this from experience.

@thegallery

Жыл бұрын

is there a "Dreaming Italian" or equivalent ?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Reggie! At what stage did you start speaking? I really rate it as a method. I've held off speaking and just use crosstalk in my lessons at the minute

@reggietkatter

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green I waited a long time! Like 900 hours in. One of the reasons I wrote it was worth it is because I really think it’s been great for my pronunciation: I get compliments on it fairly often (slight brag, but it’s what I’ve heard). I did crosstalk as well, starting about 300-400 hours in.

@reggietkatter

Жыл бұрын

@@thegallery I wish, but unfortunately no. There isn’t really anything as comprehensive and well made as DS for any other language at this point (though there are a number of good channels producing videos of this sort in different languages now). I have noticed though that acquiring a lot of Spanish has greatly facilitated my comprehension of Italian (watching a number of Italian language cooking channels on KZread) and Portuguese much more.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

@@reggietkatter that’s very interesting. I was going to start speaking at 700 hours but might hold off a little longer then…

Hi Matt! When I came to Portugal I couldn't speak a word of Portuguese. Around about the same time I made a friend who was Swiss. She learned by comprehensible input mostly and mixing with with people. But I had to know how the language was structured. I needed to know - why. I watched game shows, soaps and listened to music. Music is great for learning!, learning about the grammar gives you an advantage - enables you to be able to use the formulas and apply them: We both became fluent in Portuguese around about the same time. (after 6 months or so) Years later (30) she still makes lots of mistakes and cannot unlearn the bad habits she picked up, like local slang etc.. But to be honest - I admired her more for learning her way - I couldn't have done that.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing. I assume she was speaking from day one?

@mysteryteacher9

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green Thanks for the response. She started with French. In some aspects the languages are similar. I held back a little - not wanting to make a fool of myself. When I did start speaking, it shocked everybody. Mostly because they realised that I had understood what they had been saying for some time. In some EU countries back then - very few Brits learned the native languages so it wasn't expected that I should learn. Germans, Swiss, French - they would always learn - even if it wasn't that correct. My boyfriend said I would never learn and if I did, I would speak badly (like all English) I set a target how I wanted to speak and I surpassed it - now I teach the language to foreigners. With 6 week intensive programs. Do you speak Portuguese Matt?

For the last three years, I haven’t been able to watch Netflix in Spanish and stick to it. Something about a show is not working for me. I get much more passive input than active. But, I think at times you have to take mini breaks. When you slow down input, when you get away from it for a week and come back, it is an improvement. After three years of Spanish, I dip up and down in confidence. My priorities have changed a little bit. I’m about to start college again and work on a foreign language degree. I don’t expect at all that school will make me fluent. But, little by little, in the long run, I will have a degree.

@David_10157

Жыл бұрын

Damn, three years and not being able to watch a show. I'd evaluate your learning system and maybe focus on a textbook instead.

@Understaninghumans

Жыл бұрын

@@David_10157 ok

@Understaninghumans

Жыл бұрын

Overall for me, it's rare I watch Netflix. The times I do, I want to relax and not study. But, buddy, it's not a competition; I am in it for the long run.

@BrunUgle

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps you are trying to watch things above your level and need to find something easier. Also, listening takes some practice. Many people give up after ten minutes if they don’t understand. If you can get the gist of what’s going on, even if it’s mostly from the video and not from the words, then just keep watching. You need to be tolerant of ambiguity. There will be a lot that you don’t understand. Don’t worry about it. Keep going and it will become clearer. If you can’t understand anything even with the help of the video, try something easier. It might take some time to find something, but don’t give up.

@Understaninghumans

Жыл бұрын

@@BrunUgle Yes, and it also means having constant confidence in yourself when talking to a native. I have to work on understanding podcasts or any audio when there's no visual.

Extra points for the deft use of the Madrigal book with Andy Warhol drawings when he was still on minimum wage, at the beginning there!

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

🤣 Thanks Brian!

Great video! I'm at a mere 6 hours of CI at this point using dreaming spanish. Honestly, I know I have more than that, but I wasn't tracking anything, so I just started at the super beginner level. I am somewhat conflicted, though. Dreaming Spanish doesn't promote reading until level 5 or 6 due to subvocalization, but I'd really like to read some A1 grade readers in Spanish. Thoughts?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

It’s all down to you in my opinion. If you really like reading then you will get more input if you start now. Obviously there is the potential effect on pronunciation so listen to the audio for whatever you are reading when you get time to. Now if I read something I have a much better feel for the sounds after all the hours of input using DS and other material. Life is short: so why you enjoy

@epb0394

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green Perhaps its more prudent to hold off until I get more input. It isn't the end of the world. Just a lot of hours to wait. It seems to me that the hours would accumulate faster at higher levels since you are able to listen to more content and not necessarily have to pay 100% attention to it. Is this the case? Or do you still have to really focus on the coversation even at 600+ hours?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

@@epb0394 I still have to pay attention to it otherwise I’m not really taking the language in. It seems less mentally fatiguing though and so I can get more input in a day and now from multiple sources

@epb0394

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green Good to know. The mental fatigue is something I didn't expect. At least to the extent I experience it while listening.

I like your ideas about learn language. How many languages do you speak and what’s the language you’re learning ?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Hi Douglas 👋. Thanks. I speak some Mandarin and am learning Spanish at the moment. I’m just an enthusiast rather than a polyglot at the moment!

@douglasmendes6934

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green …got it, but with your method, the best in my opinion, you’ll learn many languages. I’ve been studying English by myself for 2 years, 9 months living in Australia, what I can say, it’s a long journey. It takes more time than I thought, so I just keep going and sometimes I watch great channels like yours. Thanks for help us.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Douglas 😁

Do you have any C.I. KZread channels that you would recommend for learning Latin American Spanish? (instead of Spanish from Spain)

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Hey JS, thanks for checking out the video. Personally I still think Dreaming Spanish is your best bet. The majority of their teachers are from Latin America now. Once you watch enough videos you should recognise the teachers from the thumbnails to save you having to watch the intro to find out if it’s in Latin American Spanish or not. On the website you can just click a filter to get Spanish from a particular country which is useful - it is probably a paid option but have a look just in case

@JSMcKee-fw9dz

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green thank you, I just noticed this one hour ago! That's a really cool option they have.

Interesting approach. Do you also disapprove looking up words as a complete begginer?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

I don’t disapprove of anything! If you like doing something then go for it. It depends on the method you are using and what you like doing. For Spanish I am avoiding looking up words and use easier content if I don’t understand things. I don’t know how it would work for Chinese or similar languages where the script is not tied to the pronunciation. I think in reality looking things up is unavoidable to a degree

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

Stephen Kaufman (20+ languages at last count) has some interesting thoughts on learning the basic vocabulary first. He's not against it, but simply sees it as a waste of time as when you get into a language you will pick them up quickly anyway without any effort It is the essential but not very commonly used words which are the impediment to getting above B1, so he recommends getting stuck in from the beginning with more 'challenging' material as this saves time and effort later on. This is how he avoids the 'intermediate plateau' which hits most learners. But obviously its a personal choice, I don't think there is any strong evidence for or against one way or another. The only downside i think of rote learning easy vocabulary from the beginning is the danger of embedding bad pronunciation or grammar habits that then have to be unlearned later on in your studies.

Hey I don't know if anyone has any advice on this, but I've really been struggling on choosing a method to learn. There are 2 methods that im looking at right now, one which is input focused, and the other output. The input method is one that the KZreadr Matt vs Japan uses, and it is basically just consuming content in the language as much as possible and perfecting your comprehension so much that eventually speaking will come easy. The output method is completely the opposite. It's one that Benny Lewis uses and its about speaking from day 1 and speaking as much as possible, and correcting the mistakes over time. I'm very interested in trying the input method, but I have a lot of questions. Which method is faster? How can I learn multiple languages at the same time with the input method? Does the method work better for some languages and not others? If anyone could help me out on these questions I would really love that.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

I’m an input guy as any time I am speaking I am not getting the language; I might even be making up my own version of the language if I don’t understand it well enjoy. Honestly, try both and see what you enjoy. That is the only way you will stick with it long enough to make significant progress 👍

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

I'm not an expert on it, but I've read through a little of the primary literature. Even the specialist linguists can't agree on this - there is research favouring both options and hybrid methods. From my personal experience of talking to people who have learnt English as a second language (as its the only language I can assess clearly), people who learn through input measures end up with a far better natural pattern and rhythm to their speaking and writing. Output teaching can ingrain bad habits and can encourage a 'parrot' approach to conversation. However, there is quite a lot of evidence that output methods are faster, at least at the beginning. My feeling is that the learning curves are different - outputting is faster at the beginning, and then plateaus. Inputting results in a long plateau at first, but then allows rapid learning once your brain has formed the patterns correctly.

@quantum965

Жыл бұрын

@@philipdavis7521 That's really helpful. I wonder though, when you say the output method is faster do you mean it's faster to speak the language, or to actually learn the language? Because obviously as much as I do think the input method is cool, if it does take significantly longer to learn the language that way I'm gonna have to look for something else.

@quantum965

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green Yeah you're totally right. I'm thinking that I'm going to try each method for different languages. Like when I learn Hindi ill try to speak from day 1. I heard someone say that the input method is for people that want to pursue a native level in the language, and the output is for people that want to communicate as fast as possible and kind of fossilize their identity as a foreigner. What do you think about that?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

@@quantum965 I can’t say for sure but after reading From The Outside In by Marvin Brown that was his experience. He spent his lifetime teaching languages and invented ALG for that very reason so his words carry weight in my book. But if speaking motivates you then don’t let me stop you!

I like CI, but I prefer a mix of techniques. Comprehensible input advocates tend to put off productive language for a long time and that's just not practical in my situation.

@matt_brooks-green

11 ай бұрын

That's fair. Yeah, I don't think it is a binary choice at all. I certainly find it's helped me immensely and wish I had known about it sooner in order to not waste as much time. It also makes picking up the language less effort which has helped me stay consistent over the long term. That is a huge benefit in my opinion

I disagree and believe there is value in learning to recognise 100 - 500 of the most common words as a foundation. Remember there's a difference between being able to recognise the meaning of a word and being able to produce the target language word when prompted with the native language word. The latter isn't necessary at this stage. It's not something to stress about. If you're working through a 500 word Anki deck, don't worry if only a 250 stick. When you start watching or listening to comprehensible input you'll have some footholds as it were. In my opinion it's a relatively low effort thing to do when starting out with a new language. After that I agree with you and you shouldn't be brute force memorising words.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

That’s fair. Anki makes me want to fall asleep 😴 so we all prefer different methods. I found reading meant I saw the same words in multiple contexts which was a complete game changer

@naturallanguageacquisition

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green I also dislike Anki but it's worth doing IMO to brute force an initial foundation.

Does this work well for Arabic? Has anyone here had success with a particular method in that language?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know Arabic but hoping there might be someone here to help?

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

I'd strongly recommend looking at the youtuber poly-glot-a-lot who is a professor of Spanish and multi linguist. He has a fascinating long video on his one year intense immersion study of Egyptian Arabic. Its very interesting with lots of cool ideas. Plus, he learnt it to a good level in those 12 months.

@hotcakesandfreshtea3918

Жыл бұрын

@@philipdavis7521 Thank you, do you know his name?

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

@@hotcakesandfreshtea3918 I believe his name is Jeff Brown, his youtube channel is poly-glot-a-lot.

@philipdavis7521

Жыл бұрын

@@hotcakesandfreshtea3918 kzread.info/dash/bejne/m6Cgo9Kgka_Nd6Q.html&start_radio=1&rv=illApgaLgGA&t=12

继续加油吧

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

多谢🙏

As much as I hate to say it, couldn't a rather large part of your newfound success also just be because Spanish is gazillion times easier to pick up for an English speaker (and esp. to pick up via immersion methods) than Chinese is?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I totally get your point. The difference I noticed in Chinese was when I switched from skill building (learning grammar rules and vocab lists) to just reading fairly easy graded readers. In Spanish I had a similar experience in that the grammar is very complicated for beginners so I just ignored it and have so far just focused on input. So for both languages I noticed I learn better this way rather than one being through CI and the other only being through skill building

Good video. But you are wrong about something.... and I made a video about it. Feel free to delete this comment, just wanted to let you know!

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Now I must be famous! 🤣 I made this video thinking of beginners who fail to get going. It’s inspired by ALG which tries to avoid translation. Go with whatever method works for you though 🙌

@MaxLearnsPersian

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green haha you became famous in no-time!!

@MaxLearnsPersian

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green I understand what happened now because of your reply, thanks! The video might give some learners the wrong impression though... I hope our two videos together help everyone progress the quickest!

This veneration of Krashen as a god is laugable. Yes, comprehensible input is useful and absolutely necessary but as an adult using other tools such as flash cards (or Anki), grammatical explanations and the like can all serve a purpose beyond simply pretending the adult brain is identical to the child's brain; it is not. Pretending we wish it were does not make it so. If it were so, we would passively and seamlessly acquire the phonology of any new language we encounter after a few years and yet that is extremely rare and most adults never get rid of their native accent; why? All adults have an L1 interfering with such things; what baby or child has this issue? None, because an L1 will interfere phonologically, grammatically, lexically and syntactically and the way to get out of that L1 interference with respect to an L2 is NOT to pretend we are still children. Understanding the grammar and phonology of an L2 will absolutely improve your L2 if you actively integrate this into your acquisition process. Natives can get away with being unable to understand or explain the grammar and phonology of their languages, but as an L2 learner that is almost never the case. Disregarding the tools an adult can avail himself of is foolish and unnecessary and all to preserve some false picture of L2 acquisition. Again, OBVIOUSLY comprehensible input is necessary but simply doing it that way, pretending your brain were that of a 2 year old is not the optimal solution to L2 learning.

@David_10157

Жыл бұрын

This is a great response. Spot on! I doubt anyone will attempt to refute it.

@spellandshield

Жыл бұрын

@@David_10157 I hope I did not come off as too hostile but I think this strange obsession with Krashen has really gotten out of hand. He is not the only L2 acquisition researcher.

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

Hi Spell&Shield - Marvin Brown's work focuses on delayed output for this very reason. I reference Krashen because most people will actually have heard of him as opposed to Mason and Ray who I also included clips of. I'll try harder next time 😂

@spellandshield

Жыл бұрын

@@matt_brooks-green I am just curious. Are you actually advocating learning a foreign language as an adult without attempting to understand the grammar whatsoever?

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

​@@spellandshield I tried the grammar first approach and got nowhere because I had no context for anything. I think massive amounts of input is more beneficial. If someone prefers doing it the other way then that's fine too. I may do some looking up of grammar in the future so I can monitor my output as I now have context for it but I also might not. I'm currently using the ALG method for Spanish which personally I find a more enjoyable way to learn and works with my lifestyle. This is Marvin Brown's approach

I disagree. One hour of dedicated structured practice for a month will place someone at a much higher level than someone with the same amount of time using comprehensible input. Moreover, in your words, "we just need to use huge amounts of comprehensible input". That's outrageous. Comprehensible Input does have a place in language learning, but I'd say not until the learner is solidly at a B1 level.

@IrredeemablyEvil

Жыл бұрын

I disagree. Structure prsctice has a place but not until the learner is at least at b2/intermediate level.

@vaxrvaxr

Жыл бұрын

I disagree. Structured learner monthly practice b2

@matt_brooks-green

Жыл бұрын

That's me David. I'm outrageous 😂. CI from day one in my book. If you enjoy using textbooks go for it

@christianstainazfischer

Жыл бұрын

I think they’re both important, for all levels. When you’re first beginning, things like ‘Dit is mijn hand, en dit is mijn arm’ or ‘Italia in Europa est’ can get you understanding the language without any studying at all, and more importantly, that dopamine rush from understanding a new language that easily can get you SUPER excited and keep you motivated to continue learning. On the other hand watching a KZread video or reading a book that explains things like the basic pronouns, explaining the concept of conjugations (if you don’t speak a highly inflected language already like English or Swedish), or explaining the gender system and the difference between ‘der die and das’, can REALLY help you move along faster through the VERY ambiguous things when starting off. When you’re a more intermediate or advanced level input can help you reinforce words you know already and learn new words through context, whereas videos or books can help you learn more complicated grammatical functions like the subjunctive case in Spanish, they can help you learn idioms that often make no sense when you see them for the first time, they can give you better pronunciation tips that you might not pick up from just listening, for example the German L is slightly farther back in your mouth or the difference between a labial dental fricative like English and the bi-labial fricative in Spanish. Both comprehensive input and videos/books are VERY important, they both serve different purposes and abandoning one for the other at any level is a huge mistake in my opinion

@Ceonsamea

Жыл бұрын

If you compare X hours (structured) vs X hours (comprehensible) I might agree with you (assuming the structured practice is truly well structure, which it sometimes isn't). But comparing equal time commitment is not really a fair comparison. With comprehensible input I can be doing things I would normally do, which increases the available number of practice hours somewhat. Want to 'study' for 4 hours a day for 3 months straight? With comprehensible input I'm playing my favourite video games, reading or watching TV shows I enjoy. Investing the same time into structured practice without burning out quickly would be insanely difficult to most people.