The amount of hate soyeon got bcoz shuhua didn't have lines in the previous songs but i am only impressed by soyeon how patient and genius she is to make shuhua sing and sound nice in recent songs.

@motherhoodsbeauty9279

7 ай бұрын

After all, she is part of the group. She gonna have to make it work. Her group probably makes her lots of money

@anasammm8834

7 ай бұрын

@@motherhoodsbeauty9279 yeahh but that's not my point I was saying that shuhua didn't get line in the previous songs simply because she can't sing and not bcoz soyeon had any personal grudge,bcoz before I saw hate comments for soyeon as if she is doing it intentionally bcoz she don't like shuhua or smthng that's all I was saying🤷

@watashi5700

7 ай бұрын

@@anasammm8834 Shuhua actually asked for less lines after knets dragged her for her pronunciation in Hann. But that ended during Queendom.

@motherhoodsbeauty9279

7 ай бұрын

@@watashi5700 That is so sad. I love the group and all the members that came with it. True fans will never hate on any of the members.

@WhitePaintbrush

7 ай бұрын

I feel for Soyeon because it’s really hard to work around someone’s extremely limited vocal capacity. Option 1 is you don’t give them any lines and you take the heat for it (remember when Shuhua's Chinese fanbase flat-out boycotted HWAA over line distributions?). Option 2 is you give them lines, try your best to cover up their issues in production and then watch them struggle live and get torn to shreds for it. Option C is you write verses specifically tailored for them regardless of whether they work well with the song. This why Shuhua’s two longest verses afaik, those in Lion and Oh My God, sound nearly identical to each other, and in the latter the music suffers for it. It's a lose-lose situation.

the thing with shuhua is not only that she lacks the basics of singing (her and sakura sound similar to me in that regard, but more severely, she doesnt even have rhythm and often comes in too early for her parts. soyeon is actually an insane producer for being able to hide her flaws so well. i also think shuhua might be tone-deaf, but she has actually improved her pitch quite a lot from debut days so i hope she gets more training in singing soon bc it does seem like she can improve if she puts in effort

@sakuravelvet

7 ай бұрын

I do think she might actually be tone deaf. It will be hard but there's a chance for improvement ig

@nightingale4786

7 ай бұрын

@@sakuravelvet yeah i've been a neverland (gidle fanbase name) since debut and she actually has gotten better since then, albeit slowly, but given how busy her schedule is right now, i dont really foresee any improvement any time soon

@thisisshite

7 ай бұрын

It is very obvious when they partake in videos like ‘killing voice’ or ‘first take’, but also I kinda feel bad for her bc she always looks very self conscious about it. Then again what stops you from taking more voice classes

@mohamadfirdausbinmat2577

7 ай бұрын

​@@vixxexo6855Let's not push it. She may be weak at singing but she's definitely not one of the dozens. When she first debuted, yes but right now it's definitely not the case. Nxde was clearly the era where she shines the brightest. Her stage performance starting from that era has significantly increased. K-pop is not all about singing and has never been. The case with a bad vocalist like Shuhua is a tale as old as time but definitely not a dozen-material. And let's be real, she's not the least famous in the group like what are you talking about lol

@nightingale4786

7 ай бұрын

@@vixxexo6855 my stance might be biased here since im a fan but i find this to be a needlessly mean take. first off in current 2023, she is not the weakest dancer nor is she the member with the weakest stage presence, and shes the 'least famous' member of gidle but still has a regular variety show that garners millions of views (see work-dol). and most of all, she is one of the FEW idols who speaks her mind despite it potentially getting her into 'attitude scandals.' maybe if you only like gidle casually, her impact isn't as important which leads you to say she shouldn't have debuted, but to fans shuhua is an integral part of what makes idle unique.

"Asking for less lines is not the solution" not only Sakura but Onda needs to hear this. I do believe Onda does request less lines because she has zero confidence in her voice. And dang i did not realize that Sana CANNOT sing 😭😭

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

I do believe so as well! And yeah, Sana gets LOST when it’s time to sing live🙈🙈

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

hey Cheryl ! it's not that they can't sing, their technique are juste mediocre, honnestly most of kpop idol are at least trained to sound enough good while singing but i think 15-20 % are decent or good technique wise, the rest are mediocre or weak at the best. kpop fan tend to believe that an idol with a beautiful tone and who hit high notes = good vocalist a good exemple is jimin from bts he have a beautifull tone and high piched voice, but most of his fan don't accept that his stylistic choices damaged his voice. but in fact since 2022 he admited that he used his voice wrongly and that now he take lesson and focus on technique rather than style and practice with Jungkook ( who have a more healthier technique )

@theanti-veela-leprechaun

7 ай бұрын

I don’t get how companies manage to let down idols this much 😭 like it would maybe take 2 months of consistent training for onda to sound wildly better and gain confidence, yet somehow after a two year hiatus there’s little to no improvement??

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

@@theanti-veela-leprechaun i guess most of them don't care, all they want is an entertainer who can sound a minimum good and execute a basic choreo but the more important is to attract fan with their visual and their personality.

@PuhLiz

7 ай бұрын

@@NingKook_ "minimum good" should still have a standard , tone deaf shouldn't be minimum good . previously it used to be few good singers and some rappers who are decent , nowadays every group has one decent vocalist and the rest are just pretty faces , it's very common in 4th gen , look at LSF , IVE , STAYc , Everglow , they have one decent or average singer as their main vocalist and the rest just "can sing" , they have no technique no support whatsoever ,

a lot of channels these days are so rude, thanks for not absolutely destroying them and being aggressive as hell 😭

@lia_anh

7 ай бұрын

I know! Sometimes these channels are being so rude on purpose just to get engament or a good thumbnail. They’ll even go as far as calling idols slurs and being as mean as possible under the pretense that this is their opinion. If you even peacefully disagree with their opinion, they accuse you of ‘being a snowflake’, ‘refusing to see the truth’ or even, in some case scenarios, ‘being racist’.

@leboow

7 ай бұрын

@@lia_anh I think i know exactly one specific channel you are talking about

@YourLocalSideChick

7 ай бұрын

whooo allow me to avoid these channelss @@leboow

@leboow

7 ай бұрын

@@YourLocalSideChick first two that came to my mind were ajanugu and yubincults

@sakuravelvet

7 ай бұрын

@@YourLocalSideChick sultry film is the worst one imo.

Respectfully we need a part 2 with more male idols.

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

I think we can make that happen😉

@A.D.M99

7 ай бұрын

​@@vixxexo6855shotaro is not a vocalist honey...even from his NCT days he's been more of a rapper

@s.lotus74

7 ай бұрын

you just cant accept the fact that your unofficial MAIN VOCALIST isnt all that great so now your going after the unoffical main dancer and lead RAPPER of riize...girl pls@@vixxexo6855

@Oliver-uz1fs

7 ай бұрын

​@@vixxexo6855shotaro doesn't even sing 😭😭😭😭

@kjdfancams1965

7 ай бұрын

@@vixxexo6855 so majority of his group

I never thought Sakura was as bad and underdeveloped as people said but that video that came out recently when she was singing and other members had to cover her (it was in this video) I was SHOCKED…. Let me stop questioning why certain people have less lines😅

@Waender

7 ай бұрын

sadly its a song that currently above her range anymore. 😅 unlike kimi wa melody. she sang that live during her graduation.

@xrrgr

6 ай бұрын

@@Waender sakura’s my bias wrecker, but cmon the song isn’t in a difficult range. She’s just extremely underdeveloped.

@maddieontop974

6 ай бұрын

Sakura's a soprano. I'm a mezzo and can sing most Le Sserafim songs save for the Antifragile high note. Also, Sakura is mostly given one-line parts and even that is shaky and pitchy. I think she truly is just a bad vocalist who doesn't put in the work and avoids it by asking for less lines. I don't want to be hateful but when she's been in the industry for 10+ years and still can't sing...@@Waender

@xrrgr

6 ай бұрын

@onigiriellie agreed

@ishathakor

6 ай бұрын

@@Waender oh come on. it's not out of her range at all. it's an extremely comfortable range even for people who don't sing

the analysis on taehyun’s vocals is painfully accurate… there are times when his tone suits the song well, and there are times when i enjoy listening to him sing. however, while i’m no vocal expert, i can’t help but hear and feel the PAIN and strain when he goes for the higher notes

@iinaego

4 ай бұрын

literally i hate hybe i don’t want him to get hurt or anything ☹️

@lolano3392

4 ай бұрын

RIGHT! Not to be rude but he literally looks like he's in pain when he sings 😬

@BabyDanny_

4 ай бұрын

He mentioned that his doctor said he’s fine? With vocal cords I mean. But I do hear what you guys mean.

@felixitations

3 ай бұрын

like i love him a lot but come on pookie thats going to cause some problems. im not a great singer by any means but at least i know how to prevent tension, its one of the most basic things you learn in any singing class

@cherinlady

3 ай бұрын

@@felixitationsoh

the thing about shuhua is that even her GROUP knows she can't sing. neverlands call her a "vocal chameleon" because she sounds like all the other members, but that's only because she never ever sings alone in the tracks (and that's also the reason why she sounds different live). you can also see that in their radio performances, she is never singing alone, someone is always pretending to "sing in the wrong moment" to back her up. i'm one of the people that's in the shuhua is tone deaf train since oh my god era cause she seriously can't find the pitch to save her life. even with all her improvements, her tone deafness never left. now she's a better dancer and interesting performer so her singing isn't as noticeable but before tomboy it was just unbereable even when she's the only idle member who consistenly doesn't sing live (even on their most recent tour)

@milipuga

7 ай бұрын

so basically, what i wanted to say is, it's obvious she won't improve in this state where she's hidden. she's probably very insecure already and ever since the beggining, her lines are not even solely hers- to hide her mistakes. it's a comfortable state to be in, so why improve? soyeon is a master producer, one of the best in kpop even, to be able to make her sound good in the studio and blend other voices in the bg without making it sound like a duet/group part. but sometimes is noticeable like people finding out the last hwaa chorus was "her" voice leading many months after release, and who knows many other parts that are suppossed to be hers and nobody notices because they are blended with other members as always

@laetitiac9890

7 ай бұрын

@@milipugashe says she’s been practicing and she is slowly improving but should they wait for her to improve. It’s either reduce the music quality or overall sound of the song or should they keep waiting. Nope so they made her excel or work harder in stage presence and dance

@momoyromas9456

7 ай бұрын

I remember watching a Dumbi Dumbi encore and other members literally couldn’t hold back laughter when she started singing.

@xrrgr

7 ай бұрын

@@LuvSailor you legit just said what they did with nicer words, come on now.

@annanowak9620

7 ай бұрын

Is it possible to not be a tone deaf in the future? Can people change it? Or it will stay forever? Or it will take more time to fix it?

I think momo’s biggest problem is that JYP seriously strained her voice in twice’s early years forcing her to go to pitches she can’t reach without straining her voice. Her voice is really pretty in the alto register, as an alto myself I know the struggles of trying to go higher in pitch when you physically can’t without straining

@inplane9970

6 ай бұрын

Even though Momo's voice technically isn't the best, I think a lot of people have grown to love her simplistic vocal flair. The "nasally" style that became iconic to her and is recognizable in every song. Even in the live clip of Feel Special, her live singing sounds exactly like the studio recording. That's huge feat on its own.

@moon.by_sana

6 ай бұрын

+ she had to eat only ice to lose 7kg in a week (based on what she said on Vlive 2018-9 i think?)

@moon.by_sana

6 ай бұрын

@@intoyuri doesn’t the ice have, like, negative effects to throat or anything? If you eat only cold things an entire week there might be some voice damage, isn’t it?🧍🏻‍♀️

@AllegedlyAisha

4 ай бұрын

​@@moon.by_sana not quite, is you watch clips of her singing and rapping on sixteen, she actually has a lower singing tone and her range isn't comfortable with how high twice songs are which is why her nasality comes out and she ends up cracking her voice and losing her tone ( regularly singing above your comfortable range with no technique for years can cause lots of damage to your throat which is likely why hers and sanas voice have regressed so badly as I suspect JYPE wanting the kawaii japan marketing strategy for them

@ehrenschnitzel

4 ай бұрын

This! Momo sounds gorgeous when she is able to sing comfortably. Sana too actually.

This could be your longest series tbh...

@lyd2460

7 ай бұрын

Oops, 🤧😂

@annamathew7096

7 ай бұрын

🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

👀👀👀🙈

@girlygirl9983

2 ай бұрын

We’ve been tricked by catchy songs😂😂😂 I came from LE SERRAFIM Encore stage “Easy” SMH

“We need a fair line distribution!” .. no. No , we really dont lmao

@slaaaaaayyysla-9297

3 ай бұрын

FRR💀💀💀

@HahaHaha-jx4le

Ай бұрын

We still need a fair distribution. Sana consistently gets 3rd/4th in their albums since 2021 while Jeongyeon, the lead vocal, gets 8th/7th/5th. Fair doesn't mean equal!

@AvocadoPear

18 күн бұрын

Fair? Yes. Equal? Absolutely not. Give the lines to the vocalists who can handle them. Occasionally that will mean giving more lines to a sub vocalist rather than a lead (or even main) vocalist because their voice might particularly suit the song. But it should (almost) never mean distributing lines equally among all members of the group. There will always be vocally weaker members, and I’m sorry but we really don’t need to hear that 😅

Shuhua is the only member who’s group i listen to in this list sometimes i cant help but think she’s so lucky to debut in gidle since they produce their own music hence less mean to her since theyre close the amount of critism she would have gotten if she was under yg jyp hybe otpr any other company her life wld have been hell

@meowingflowers5510

7 ай бұрын

she got criticism from cube anyways are you dumb

@urhypeboy

7 ай бұрын

I'm the complete opposite. I listen to all these groups EXCEPT g-idle

@springbreezeandstillwater

7 ай бұрын

@@urhypeboy the only groups I can say I’ve listened to majority of their discography are bts blackpink newjeans and gidle … I’ve had few songs from most groups especially TTs

@purpleeyes5556

5 ай бұрын

True. I don't think she would be able to survive in any of the other companies

@ttteeaa

5 ай бұрын

She’s lucky as hell

As a Neverland, I already accepted way back 2018 that Shuhua is really tone deaf. What I like about her is that she works so hard to improve aspects of herself; from speaking korean, dancing, and stage charisma. She showed a lot of improvement throughout the years, especially with stage charisma so I respect her for that.

@sixtyspink

7 ай бұрын

Idle is one of my top 3 girl groups, and I absolutely love Shuhua for many reasons, but she cannot sing.

@kaira7793

6 ай бұрын

She just improved her facial expression earlier soojin used to handle the stage presence somebody had to step up yuqi and miyeon need to handle the singing , Minnie for high notes , soyeon needs to handle rapping , Shuhua was just a just there becoz she was supposed to be there but after soojin she had to take up the role becoz she couldn’t rap ( the soyeon kinda flow ) sing like the other 3 so the only thing she could do is have facial expression

@VinceLevi

4 ай бұрын

There's no denying that Shuhua really needs a ton of work to improve her vocals but her improvement since day 1 has been really huge. I never imagined that she would have such great stage charisma now. After everything that happened, it helped her improve drastically. She would be unstoppable if her vocals get better too.

@tsuyuasui7297

4 ай бұрын

​@@sixtyspink RIGHT???? Sana and momo sounded much more stable during their sixteen days, however im pretty sure that's bc they were able to sing in their own range

@malicechalice

3 ай бұрын

​@@tsuyuasui7297that's so true. fr what was JYP even thinking?? I'm an alto and I can't even imagine the PAIN Sana and Momo had to endure while singing after debut. High notes are usually sparse for a reason, even when done properly. But Sana and Momo didn't get enough training before debut, so their high notes are very strained. Yet, they were basically forced to sing ONLY strained high notes ALL THE TIME (which might not sound so high for some people, but, for someone with a lower vocal range, Twice's entire discography could be considered a high note lmao). It's not healthy to sing only in the limits of your vocal range for so long, specially when you don't even have a strong technique. I felt pain and had a sore throat after singing a 3min song that was too high for my range in a karaoke, now imagine what Sana and Momo felt while doing that for their entire careers? JYP is always messing up with their female idols ngl...

Finally someone said it, It's always been painful for me to listen and watch Taehyun sing, and all of the fans saying that he's singing "passionate" just sound like an excuse, he's not a bad singer, but I rather hear Hyuka singing something easier but less tensioned than something difficult with a lot of tension

@annamathew7096

7 ай бұрын

pls don't say like this, moas think that he is best 4th gen male vocalist 😢

@Swl934

7 ай бұрын

Exactly it looks like he is in pain when he sings

@elinama7061

7 ай бұрын

I think Jongho from Ateez is a much better singer, but he also has the same issue I feel. It's like for high notes especially his face tenses up so much and it looks like he's in so much pain forcing out higher and higher notes

@lanluc2527

7 ай бұрын

​​​​​​​@@elinama7061 Yes I Agree Who Do Think That Sound Better And Are Better Vocalist Between Jongho Or Hui Or DK? Crazy Enough One KZread Short Says That Jongho Outsings Baekhyun High Note In All I Got! LOL 😂 Jongho In Symphony No.9 Wonderland Sound More Like He Is Screaming Than Hitting A High Note! Baekhyun Hit A C6 Meanwhile Jongho Will Strain His High Note If He Go Higher And ATEEZ Is Not The Best 4th Gen Vocal Group Only Jongho And San Can Support But The Other Can't Support! I Wonder If Someone In 4th Gen Is A Better Main Vocalist Than Jongho? Baekhyun Support C6! Baekhyun Is B-/B And Jongho Is C Rank ATEEZ EXO TXT Treasure And Seventeen In Vocals

@IAmACatMeowMeowIDontLikeYou

7 ай бұрын

@annamathew7096 To my knowledge, the best male vocalist in 4th gen is Woojin, he improved a lot since he left stray kids actually, or maybe Jongho?

notice how most if not all idols who cannot sing, instead of trying to improve their vocals they try to hide it by improving their dancing and their stage presence

@firequeen5714

3 ай бұрын

exactly and its disappointing cuz majority of them can definetly afford trainers.

@ladymoon7327

2 ай бұрын

My thoughts as well 😭

@billliealim

11 күн бұрын

For real. Y’all should watch that X Factor audition where a group “Angel” performed, and it reminds me so much of so many kpop groups these days when Tulisa pointed out how all the energy and dance moves is to cover up the fact that none of them can sing

I think the main problem with sakura is the fact she has always been in big broups, where she has only a few lines to sing. At the moment she debuted in lesserafim there were 6 members and now 5, now that she has to sing more time compared to before it seems she struggles with that because in all her idol career she was only required to sing less than 6 seconds in a song. And the same applies for shuhua, now that soojin isn't in the group there are more eyes waiting for her to replace most of her moments but is obvious she is not ready.

@nisennananem

6 ай бұрын

Actually not, except in cases of megagroups like AKB48, I don't think the size of the group is a real problem....you guys talk like the ONLY way a Kpop idol can learn how to hold a tune is having more lines in comeback songs.....like, wtf? that doesn't even make any sense.....you should train a lot, take vocal lessons and when or if you improve, than you can have more lines in songs, not the other way arround. You improve by training and putting effort in it, not by having like 5 more seconds in the recording session...

@akkadreams

6 ай бұрын

@@nisennananem Yes, but how is she going to execute those skills without proper vocal lines?? How we are expected to get to know her improvement?? sakura has been in AKB48 and in Iz*one were she never sang more than 5 seconds by the fact akb48 has 48+ members and iz*one had 12

@zahraa4149

6 ай бұрын

​@@akkadreamsshe also never had vocal training in Japan, and it seems to be the same in Korea. This is the actual issue, not how many lines she has

@akkadreams

6 ай бұрын

@@zahraa4149 She is not going to put her vocal training in practice if she doesnt even have lines to sing, Idols wont show Improvement if they dont even have a way to show it

@zahraa4149

6 ай бұрын

That's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. The fact that we can tell she doesn't have vocal training even with the few lines she has shows that it isn't about the lines I'm not putting the responsibility on her. Hybe is a big company with more than a ridiculous amount of money. They could easily get vocal training for their idols, but they obviously don't care enough to. Which is just a bad decision all around Vocal training isn't just to sound good btw, having healthy technique can help prevent you from damaging your voice.

Feel like taehyun has a lot of the same issues Hwasa has recently -which is basically sacrificing a lot of vocal technique for a "raw and unique" tone. The issue that Hwasa has at least some good vocal habits to fall back on (you can really tell that she's been actively CHOOSING this technique for years now) but Taehyun doesn't, which is more worrying lol.

@thatname4451

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, Hwasa has singed "Orange colored sky" recently and i can tell that she can be sooo resonant still in this year, but she just chooses to be more stylish in all her other songs lol

@ireneasare9552

7 ай бұрын

​@@thatname4451true. hwasa when singing covers where her stylistic approach is not required uses more of her technical skills and you can tell she can still sing. she is most definitely opting for a more unique sound and thus she is leaning more towards her stylistic sound for herself

@vronji

7 ай бұрын

its so sad because (imo) hybe doesnt properly train their artists in vocals. strong vocalists like yunjin are strong because of prior experience and training, not because of hybe. they have so many idols with great potential and just waste it all for the sake of "style"

@seafoodjapchae

7 ай бұрын

​@@vronjiture and I feel like all of newjeans vocals are mistreated too they have so much potential but their songs like are nursery rhymes 😭

@redorangeneko

7 ай бұрын

@@vronji HYBE and YG blatantly value tone over technique (with HYBE they focus a lot more in dancing/performing over just singing), JYP used to be like that too but it's changing and SM is the only major company that's strict with vocal training

I think an issue is also that SOME K-pop singers are going through the "The Britney Effect" in which they are forced to sing in an unnaturally high, nasally, and uncomfortable register when their natural singing voice is much deeper and clearer. This can lead to strained, cracking, and bad sounding vocals especially when singing live and can damage one's vocal chords in the long run...I bet that if you take any high pitched K-pop songs, take those undeveloped vocalists, have them sing a few keys lower, and trained them to sing more naturally, then they would sound a LOT better!! No hate...just being honest...

@Reyshy

2 ай бұрын

You nail it. How can labels expect a perfect performance when they force people to fake a style of voice instead of nurturing and perfecting their own.

Finally someone talks about sana! Not only does she get very little criticism, but praise??!! Same with taehyun. Btw we need a part 2 :)

@annamathew7096

7 ай бұрын

sana gets praise?? But yeah I haven't saw I single person criticizing herr

@theanti-veela-leprechaun

7 ай бұрын

@@annamathew7096 I’ve seen praise happen😭

@maddieontop974

7 ай бұрын

It's crazy because her technique is nearly worse than Momo's, she's regressed atrociously but rather than praising her dance or charisma on and offstage people set her up by highlighting her vocals. Edit: would like to add that I’m absolutely experienced in vocal pedagogy, and nope I do not rate based off KVA standards since those are very old and are just not accurate enough for me.

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

I think the part 2 is gonna happen!😉

@theanti-veela-leprechaun

7 ай бұрын

@@aintnootherfan well I mean it’s not like you’re short on material 🤭 can’t wait

Yeah it’s interesting, I’ve noticed that HYBE groups(specifically the groups that originated there, rather than from companies bought by them) tend to not have good vocal support. I remember when I was super into BTS and would genuinely worry for Jimin bc it seemed like he was straining his voice a lot. It’s similar with Taehyun. It seems that they don’t necessarily teach their idols vocally compared to other companies.

@WitchlightNW

7 ай бұрын

if you look at old interviews from their trainee days it seems like hybe trainees (like you said not aquired) are left to their own devices in terms of developing singing and rap but have extremely hard and intense dance training. so unless they have prior experience/training from a vocal academy/company outside hybe it's unlikely to develop good technique and vocal skills

@dvnyaluvsu

6 ай бұрын

That’s because Hybe is big on visuals rather than talent, especially vocals

@p1kkuma

5 ай бұрын

@@dvnyaluvsu hybe is more focused on dancing. I’ve heard dance instructors praise enhypen for their dancing! And hybe groups are often great performers. But many of the idols lack vocal training 😅

@nasnamis

3 ай бұрын

new jeans

@amala-wm9fb

2 ай бұрын

Jimin himself has said that hybe denied him vocal lessons, they played with his mind telling him that he would debut but they also told him that they would throw him out, he said that he had to learn alone, without any reference or support, and after debuting he had to change his normal tone to a distinctive one so that the band had “originality”, rn he’s trying to found his natural tone and start from there, and clearly it is difficult because he has to forget everything he has done for years to start from 0

Not the titanic flute in the beginning 😭 Agree with every idol you've mentioned. Esp Taehyun, many people say they love how RAW his vocals are when I just hear future damage for his voice. Also finally someone talks about Sana. I honestly think that she regressed over time

@mulenga9531

7 ай бұрын

Child the opening line in do not touch, the producer did that on purpose.

@winterohsowonder

7 ай бұрын

I agree with you about Sana, like she's one of the sub vocals but she sounds like she didn't do her vocal trained for over 7(?) years, it's embarrassing as a Sana biased. I really like her voice and she had potential but girly really need to do better. And it's not helping the fact that I can barely hear her voice over the backtrack in the concerts, it's almost like she's lipsincing. It's honestly disappointing. I want her to find a new vocal coach or something! Girly, I wanna see your 100% !

@maddieontop974

7 ай бұрын

Actually, I've noticed her, Jihyo, Dahyun, and Jeongyeon as the members you can hear most over the backtrack, but it also depends because on some stages you can't hear her at all.@@winterohsowonder

@fireflieer2422

7 ай бұрын

@@winterohsowonderagree! I was at their concert and disappointed at the lack of live singing by her. It seems that she isn’t very confident in her vocals in the first place.

@ireneasare9552

7 ай бұрын

​@@fireflieer2422which concert?😮 sana from the concerts i have seen is one of the sub vocalists you actually hear the most. and you hear all the cracks and shifts. I'm just curious because i am surprised by your comment.

I feel that when it comes to Twice, the main problem is that the voices don’t fit the type of songs they’re doing. Momo has naturally lower voice while Sana despite having probably the highest, lightest voice in the group lacks the strength. Almost all Twice songs are extremely high pitched which makes it hard to not sound squeaky and strained for some of the girls. Sana sounded much better in songs like Cry for Me, Good at Love or some songs that are slower and she is able to sing softly, which is very rare as Twice songs are energetic and Chipmunk like. Momo on the other hand can go pretty low which is used mostly for adlibs and her natural voice doesn’t have this nasality but since Twice Chipmunk-high songs require going higher than normal even on regular verse and pre-chorus lines, she switches placement to her mask area with bad technique so the sound is less than pleasant.

@Suzutheone

7 ай бұрын

I never understood why twice fans try to blame twice lack of vocals on their voice type. Allow me to say that : their songs may be complicated and high pitched, but any correctly trained vocalist is capable of singing them, even if they got a deeper voice. An example with this is Jeongyeon, she got in my opinion a deeper voice, maybe not as much as momo, but she still hits the high notes. While Momo don't get as much higher notes but still struggles. The issue with twice isn't their voice type, it's the lack of management and consistency of their vocals.

@drakerevel1768

7 ай бұрын

@@Suzutheone That is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. You can play “cello notes” on a bass instrument but it doesn’t mean it will sound the same or have the same pleasant feeling to it. You can transpose music for different instruments but they won’t sound the same, that’s why you can’t just swap a trumpet for a flute and expect the same result. Jeongyeon is probably the best trained and maybe even the most talented singer of the group. Comparing her singing to the members who specialize in dancing is kind of pointless. You could say the same about her dancing, how come she is not as good at dancing after so many years of performing. “She has two legs and is taller than Momo and Sana, why she lags behind despite that?” There is definitely a lack of management and consistency of their vocals, for sure, but that’s kinda what happens when you have 9 members and two to three comebacks per year. There should be more emphasis put on vocal training but the repertoire should also be tailored to the specific members.

@tay0914

7 ай бұрын

This has been my main issue since their sound started maturing. I had less of a problem when they were doing bubblegum pop bc while they still had questionable moments, it was masked behind fun beats and playful vocals a lot of the time. Whereas now they tap into these more mature genres and put out certain tracks that carry this sort “hey, we *can* sing,” sentiment but it just falls flat most of the time.

@watashi5700

7 ай бұрын

@@Suzutheone would you say Tzuyu simgs better than Sana?

@ireneasare9552

7 ай бұрын

​@@watashi5700easily. tzuyu is a lot closer to mina and chaeyoung than mosada and tzuyu is even starting to support her notes in the last year. whereas sana has not gotten to that level

I feel like if taehyun went on a little break to get some proper training (which I feel like he never had) he would improve so much very quickly. He definitely has the passion and talent, he just lacks the basic training. I hope he does something to improve his vocal health bc I'm worried and it's such a waste

@parsachoudhury6727

7 ай бұрын

He already had to visit a doctor once to get his vocals checked since it was hurting so much once :'( the doctor apparently told him he's lucky that he was blessed with strong vocal chords. Man as someone who ults Txt I really wish he'd take it easy sometimes. He always sounds lovely to me but even with all my biases and personal preferences I can hear his vocal chords tearing themselves apart sometimes. His vocal coaches failed him and it makes me sad because imagine this man with proper technique.

@ticklepapi2274

7 ай бұрын

@parsachoudhury6727 exactly, he would be such a powerhouse with proper training. I wish bh would get him a better vocal coach :( but hearing those predebut stories I'm not surprised he wasn't taught well... I hope we'll see some changes for the sake of his health but i doubt it.

@imacar3285

6 ай бұрын

@@parsachoudhury6727 same... i really really want the best for him and the group. it doesn't effect how much i like and support them but it worries me a whole lot. they clearly want to improve i just hope they can find the time or the company can support them better... idk

@breadeater123

6 ай бұрын

@@parsachoudhury6727 where did you hear that?

@parsachoudhury6727

6 ай бұрын

@@breadeater123 He said it in his Lee Mujin Service episode

I feel like Sakura's time in the Japan idol industry really did hinder her from a young age in some ways. Since training in Japan for idols is basically nonexistent compared to Korea. You don't really get any basic vocal training, you just practice the songs for a few months and they debut you. Japanese idol fans care more about their idols have fun on stage rather than having a well-rounded performance, which isn't really a bad thing, but expectations are just completely different at that point. I do want Sakura to have fun on stage while performing, but I also hope maybe if she does improve her vocals, that she can get more lines in songs.

@lovxshua

7 ай бұрын

i want to add that j-pop idols have longer contracts and companies believe that these idols will improve over time if they continue performing

@Bibble_.__.._958

7 ай бұрын

The thing with akb is that only 2 people in the group actually sing. The rest are basicly back up dancers

@annanowak9620

7 ай бұрын

It will be hard for her to improve because she has a shake voice when she sings. It's not something that she can change easily.

Taehyun is so real. I'm a hardcore MOA- they're always my most listened to artist and I have most of their albums- but I really struggle with listening to Taehyun's high notes. It works in their grunge songs like LOVESONG, but it really doesn't work in their other songs. And I find he's been straining more and more and more over the years, with even his comfortable register heavily straining now. I hate that him strainign his vocal chords has become the defining characteristic of his voice and I hope HYBE does something about it

Taehyunn😢 At first I thought it was a stylistic choice as the struggling feeling fits with TXT emo teens life theme, but he’s strained in most songs and I’m really concerned about his vocal chords. No wonder why I prefer other txt members’ voice even I could clearly tell that others’ techniques are super basic compared to Taehyun

@Verowinday777

7 ай бұрын

I don’t think others are super basic, yeah they are weaker but not really super basic.

@KITTIMIN

6 ай бұрын

Just because Taehyun’s voice is outstanding and unique doesn’t dismiss the fact that the rest of txt are professionally trained vocalists with no positions. They have different vocal colors and sing in THEIR RANGES.

@goodyoflife

5 ай бұрын

Taehyun have a good vocal he just needs to free himself his too tight

@GranolaBars11

4 ай бұрын

@@KITTIMIN "professionally trained vocalists"? lmao no. They're professionally trained idols. They're excellent at being attractive and above average dancers (with Yeonjun obviously being a standout) but one thing TXT does NOT have is vocalists. The only HYBE group with vocalists is Seventeen and that's BARELY I hybe group. I love TXT, they have some really good songs and are extremely fun, unique, talented in other ways, and interesting, but they all need work on their vocal technique before anyone should even consider them a vocally-oriented group top begin with

i am soo glad you mentioned taehyun because as a singer myself, some notes he sings are not that hard to hit but he has a tough time singing those so it sounds strained at times. txt's voices are trained to be softer that's why yeonjun sings a lot because he has a deeper voice because of rap training and can hit a few notes which other members can't. and taehyun being the main vocal makes him have these "powerful" parts that can ruin a person's voice if they don't know how to do them.

@kemsari9969

7 ай бұрын

That happened to Jimins voice. He was a decent singer but he destroyed his vocal chords by singing way too hard and pressing the notes out without the proper training.

@TyTrack_127

7 ай бұрын

​@@kemsari9969 Poor him😢

@saja9796

2 ай бұрын

Agree.. thanks to shitty hype this is all happening beacuse they're not providing vocal training and forcing them to sing above their ability🤬 txt have the potential to be a good vocalisit but again.. I HATE HYPE SO MUCH

Taeyeon was the first idol I ever became a fan of and she really set the bar high in terms of vocalists😂 I hope that 5th gen will bring back good singing... perhaps with SM's new big girl group? we'll see.

@laraibahmed3090

7 ай бұрын

Agree! I love choreography and performance but I absolutely appreciate and value strong, talented vocalists! Not everyone needs to be an all rounder or ace at the expense of sub par vocals.

@Mint52353

7 ай бұрын

Its partially nostalgia. There was plenty of bad singing in 2nd gen as well. They used to have designated bad singers who just didn't sing much in groups. With nostalgia, you are comparing the best of 2nd gen (Taeyeon) with the mediocre batch in 4th gen

@Hellokitty_391

6 ай бұрын

2nd gen actually has the best vocalists tho, like Taeyeon, Ailee, IU, Jonghyun, Kyuhyun, etc

@sonexcarat99

4 ай бұрын

Same situation here! I’m also SNSD stand and they set the bar way too high to replicate. All members can sing and dance super well, let alone their personal talents such as acting, MC, cooking, etc.

@andyourwatchin82

4 ай бұрын

Nmixx comes with this. Please do check them out

The way Soyeon got lots of hate from non-fans and also shades from some Nevies every comeback(yeah these mfs exist) for not giving Shuhua lines especially pre-Tomboy eras are insane. Some youtubers who reacted to Gidle's MVs also said they want to see more lines from her too and it irked me because they knew Soyeon is the main producer of Gidle's discographies; so are they shading Soyeon actually? If you watch Gidle in Killing Voice which was released very recently, u can see Shuhua is still considered as a very weak singer as compared to the other 4 members. Her singing skill rate is like 1/10 of other members eventhough she improved from past years. Some Nevies babying her but I won't lie, if she's a weak singer there's no need to cover her up because ppl can see/hear it. Fortunately, her stage presence & facial expression improved far beyond starting Tomboy era. And her strong, chic & cool personality somehow spark ideas for Soyeon that she always called Shuhua as Gidle's muse and I can see why. And Soyeon is genius for creating easy-yet-catchy lines specifically to fit Shuhua's singing ability. Eventhough Shuhua's singing skill is weak, but she's not a dozen, and she still can bring hype to the group(she's brutally honest about some social issues, some of her fancams got the most views, she's entertaining in variety shows etc). She's able to contribute for the group in other areas because she's part of Gidle and Gidle has Soyeon as the leader who directing the group like no other gg leaders able to. If Shuhua debuting in other groups, she won't have the chance to shine/stand out with that limited singing ability.

@Zyazyo0

7 ай бұрын

Very well said ❤

@liuliukiu

6 ай бұрын

I dont think she would have debuted as a singer idol if she's in any other companies TBH. They said she's trained to be an actress but i dont even see that in her.

@mymy2345hikaru

5 ай бұрын

Shuhua wasn’t trained to be an actor. She went to the trainee audition because her friend invited her. She came to Korea when she was only 16 years old and couldn’t speak any Korean. Then Cube made her debut in one year, so she didn’t get enough training for singing and dancing. Shuhua doesn’t have any musical skills and talents but her visual and personality make her valuable to G-idle.

@MokuroRokudo

5 ай бұрын

No one will dare to debut her

@liuliukiu

5 ай бұрын

@@MokuroRokudo well maybe in a 10+ members group. She'll be okay as a visual in a group like that. But of course with at least 2 more years in training before debuting.

i think that sometimes taehyun’s voice suits some songs like loser lover & lovesong but otherwise yeah there’s definitely a lot of tension and i do t rlly notice it on studio vers. but in live performances definitely. I’m not saying he’s the best vocalist in txt but i prefer yeonjun’s voice. but bc i love them so much i blame hybe for not caring abt vocal training

I want to talk to the person who convinced Sana to add more nasality, tension and constricion on her singing to "sound more mature".....to a civilized conversation of course (i mean Sana was never a good vocalist but the regression after Fancy era upsets me, especially considering that Sana has been given more difficult parts on recent Twice songs). Also a little bit of Chuu lore (that can also be classified as tea or an example of delulu behaviour) so a KZreadr asked for Kpop opinions and i said and i quote: "For groups with vocally demanding songs, TXT & Enhypen need more vocal training" The next thing i know, Moas are trying to get my head on a silver platter, i mean is not like i except every group to be Mamamoo, Oh My Girl, WJSN or NCT, but can we not lie to ourselves. I love TXT but the struggle is REAL.

@bebepak7811

7 ай бұрын

You’re right, moas claim them “vocal kings”, but cmon. Admitting that they need more training is not a bad thing. Txt are cool, but definitely not vocal kings.

@winterohsowonder

7 ай бұрын

I damn agree with you about Sana, she's my ult bias but she really need to train that vocals! It's honestly really disappointing, and the fact that she's one of the sub vocals?? lowkey embarrassing...I want her to find a new vocal coach or something

@Chuu_Vault

7 ай бұрын

@@winterohsowonder i mean if Sana would've kept her same cutesy Style that wouldn't make her a goo vocalist but would've Made her stand out in a good way

@annamathew7096

7 ай бұрын

Moas say that taehyun is best 4th gen vocalist 🗿 They are just embarassing themselves by saying txt have such a good vocals

@Saladfork1929

7 ай бұрын

@@winterohsowonderi think the worst part about the sana situation is that over the years her lines have INCREASED in ampunt and difficulty so much so that she’s often getting more than jeongyeon 😭 who is twice’s 2nd best vocalist while sana is their 2nd worst vocalist…

I love txt, but you actually right in the Taehyun one. Overall, txt have problems with vocals and no one can’t convince me opposite. They lack of support, technique, the have undeveloped range, some have nasal tones. I just wish them improvement and health to their voices.

@hannavang1594

7 ай бұрын

Yea You Are Right TXT Lack Support And TXT Taehyun Thecnique Is Not The Best But I Love Listen To TXT Song

@proudlymoa

7 ай бұрын

Taehyun can support and Yeonjun has an actually good sense of support though. And underdeveloped range? That's not true all the members actually have 3 octaves and they're not even a vocal group

@JoJo-tv1gp

7 ай бұрын

​@@proudlymoawait wdym they're not a vocal group? What are they then?

@sabiaakthar1613

7 ай бұрын

@@JoJo-tv1gpperformance

@yeonjunsbestiee

7 ай бұрын

@@JoJo-tv1gpthey originally had the same set up as bts which was to be a more rap based/hiphop type group.

Tbh 60 percent of idols need vocal training but those u mentioned are the most needed ones. I also really hate seeing talented vocalists being attacked by the fans of ones with fewer lines. They trained their ass off with vocals only to be attacked by the fans of fellow members who can't sing.

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

80 % need a proper vocal training honestly

As an ONDA bias I have to agree like they had 2 years of hiatus which is literally training and practice + She had to compensate for Yiren's absence in China for the while and her improvement just wasn't enough..🥲 I feel so bad because she doesn't have much to work with either as EVERGLOW's sound is heavily electronic, OFC her and the girls' voices will be heavily edited, auto-tuned, added gang/backing vocals etc.. because that's the style of their music.. I really hope Jo Serim gets more vocal lessons, she has such a sweet, cute, nasal tone that Mia can't really give us (maybe Yiren..) 😭

@onda-rated2882

7 ай бұрын

ADDIT: Onda CAN sing and her role is a sub vocalist is enough, but I really hope they go for a slightly different concept so we can truly gage how EVERGLOW's vocal ability really is

@annanowak9620

7 ай бұрын

The problem is that these companies don't have good trainers.

@onda-rated2882

7 ай бұрын

@@annanowak9620 I agree! Because of the poor quality (in whatever way that is in YH Entertainment) we only have 2-3 proper vocalists in EVERGLOW (Aisha (controversial to casual kpop fans), Mia and Sihyeon). I love Onda to death but I swear if she had a better vocal trainer she would have improved way more than she did in SLAY era, especially having double the amount of lines from Yiren's absence during their stages

Yes sometimes i worry a lot about taehyun vocal cords, because hybe needs to hire vocal teachers who help him to get more support and also healthy way of singing

That's why Soyeon is genius Writer and composer She knows how to hide Shuhua weakness by giving her less but rememberable part! If shuhua would've have gotten lines like other idols in the list it'll be so noticeable.. She also only dance for their world tour solos stage which is really not common Honestly it's obvious if she had an option she wouldn't want shuhua either in the group I noticed how she never said she has any speciality but always praise her for her improvement 😅 its still a mystery why cube decide to debut her in the first place

@tjsquibbofficial

7 ай бұрын

Soyeon actually campaigned for Shuhua to be in Idle, since she thought they'd be incomplete without her.

@misteryemisterye

7 ай бұрын

If you look at LATATA MV, you can tell that Shuhua's visual compliments well with the group concept and visual of Miyeon. I think CUBE debuted her with idle because of her visuals and her dedication to improve.

@cocoa3202

7 ай бұрын

I think she adds personality to the group and I couldn't imagine (G)-idle without her but sometimes I do wonder too because both her vocals and dance don't compare to the other members

@Mint52353

7 ай бұрын

Its quite likely Soyeon pushed for her to be included if you see her mentoring in MtG show. She understands that kpop groups need variety to attract different types of fans, and Shuhua is exactly the type of wildcard that attracts segments of fans who would otherwise not be interested

@tjsquibbofficial

7 ай бұрын

@@cocoa3202 I mean, Shuhua is definitely a great dancer now so she definitely brings that to the group as well-

I'm still suprised how taehyun still managed to sing up to this days...he really shouldn't be too stylistic when performing live

I actually have a question for you: Is it possible that Sakura's years in the industry might have damaged her voice? She never had a lot of vocal training and probably used a lot of damaging techniques in the past which might affect her performance today? Anyway, great video as always!

@northrnstar

7 ай бұрын

honestly i don't discard the possibility. she has been in industries that both seem like they put vocal technique as an afterthought (both the j-pop and k-pop industries), so there's a possibility training in that area was not prioritized for her, which is a shame bc i think she could become quite decent with enough effort and the right coaching

@tofuzaki

7 ай бұрын

i feel like if sakura ever gets specific training for her vocals, she is going to need A LOT of help bc what i notice is that her singing voice is very similar to her talking voice. and also that her singing voice goes perfectly well with j-pop songs. she has this shaky voice (kinda like she’s about to cry) every single time she talks regularly and it translates into her singing. could be from habit or damage, so i’m not sure if it can be improved the same way her dancing has :/

@imroxxxyandrewsandimhereto6091

7 ай бұрын

i actually think it did. from what i've gathered, idols in japan don't really get much training for their technical abilities (singing, dancing, etc) since japan is more focused on the entertainment aspect of the idols' performances. which is why prior to going to korea, sakura's always been a great performer despite her lack of vocal and dancing abilities (and if u watched pd48, this is also the reason why most of the japanese trainees were intimidated by the korean trainees and were insecure with their abilities, since there's a significant gap of it between them and the korean trainees)

@liangchuzhang

7 ай бұрын

Some of her fans said she damaged her vocal cords in her 48 days when singing musicals (incorrectly ofc)? But I have no idea if her cords are really unsavable

@dallak93

7 ай бұрын

i don't think her issue isn't about actual physical damage to her vocal cords (although i would discard it) but more about her having to re-learn how to sing and that means un-learning the way she sang for years and years when she was promoting in Japan, and yes that'd take a lot of time, time SoMu isn't willing to give her imo

Sakura is a bit disappointing to be especially considering that she’s been in the kpop industry for 5 years now. I understand in Japan vocal talent for idols is seen as secondary to their stage presence, charisma and appeal, so it might be hard for her to break out of putting her vocals on the back burner, but she needs to be able to carry the group vocally in the case that chowon or yunjin aren’t able to sing. And the company isn’t pushing her in that direction

@anarecinos1590

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, Sakura has had enough time to train her vocals. It seems like it's not her priority though.

@tofuzaki

7 ай бұрын

i think a lot of it is that sakura just struggles to improve in singing overall. in le sserafim’s documentary, sakura expresses concern over her own vocal abilities and is very aware of the harsh critique she gets. she did say she would prefer less lines in songs bc of that, so idk if it’s fully bc of sakura’s lack of confidence or partially hybe as well that just decide to give her less lines rather than prioritize her vocal issue. ofc it would be great to see her improve, i just don’t know how far her experience with singing in the past has potentially affected her ability to learn now. i mean considering the fact that she has massively improved in dancing, yet remains the same in singing may point to more underlying issues

@annanowak9620

7 ай бұрын

The worst thing is that people criticise Sakura a lot but she is taking voval lessons since she joined hybe. But what people don't relaize is that for Sakura to improve will take a lot of time because she has naturally shake voice so it's also projected into her voice and I feel so bad for her because I know she tried so hard :( and people are just too mean to her. Also I am afraid that Sakura damaged her voice while being in the jpop. Who knows what kind of technique they taught her. There are some people who were born with a natural singer talent and others who have to work hard to achieve that.

@Waender

7 ай бұрын

oh no, she didn’t have enough time for it in izone. she got a time but not enough since izone’s sched is tight because of their contract expiration. but she revealed that she’s actually taking class that time. during hybe were the only time she got vocal lessons.

@nalalala7584

7 ай бұрын

She sounds tone deaf

I like how this video isn't rude at all and I also agree with everything you said! Of course when I mean improve vocally, I don't mean for them to have Beyoncé vocals but just good enough that they can comfortably sing their songs.

I'm suprised that Jisoo didn't apper here, she ain't lead vocal material but somehow she got it also, I always find it funny how everglow fans hate on Mia and Sihyeon and demand that the company give more lines to Onda. like, girly barely can keep up with the few lines she have, don't make her and us suffer like that

@wonderslala

7 ай бұрын

Jisoo isn't that weak Some how people here seem adamant that her and taehyun level is same Jisoo is on par with jennie, even better and definetely better than lisa But most people aren't up for discussion

@Aelinash

7 ай бұрын

@wonderslala Bfr, Lisa is even better than her. Jisoo is the weakest bp vocalist, there's no way she is on the same level as Jennie, not even in ur wildest dreams

@yamatonadeshiko567

7 ай бұрын

​@@wonderslalaJisoo is very weak and isn't even much better than idols like Sana. Girl sings with her throat and her voice sounds like it's squeezed. This guy said Sana makes an easy song look difficult, but that applies to Jisoo as well. BP has some of the easiest songs to sing but everytime I listen to Jisoo, it sounds like her throat is going to break. Whether who is better between Jennie and Jisoo is better, it doesn't matter because both of them should be here. They need it more than most people in this video because they actually have vocal positions but have the skillset of a subvocal while the rest in this video are just subvocalists.

@axelzacarias8246

7 ай бұрын

Jisoo may be a weak vocalist, but in my opinion, she's quite stable when it comes to singing live. With all respect I think you're exaggerating saying that Lisa is better than her at vocals. However I do agree that she should appear cause her voice sounds strained in many of blackpink's songst

@ULVIDA10

7 ай бұрын

​@@yamatonadeshiko567 Jisoo is one of the most stable idols so the only thing you're hating on is her tone which doesn't really need vocal training Also if they add jennie to this video ( they'll have to include the whole twice except jihyo and Jeongyeon, like even nayeon will be in the video and they'll have to add 80% of the kpop industry)

this was awesome! I would love to see a part 2, I'm sure there's more than enough examples...

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

Part 2 will be coming for sure!!

@kuraliah

7 ай бұрын

@@aintnootherfan can’t wait!

@fahmy2351

7 ай бұрын

I wonder who'll be at part 2 😂

Even though I love Shuahua's voice when she sings and I do feel like she struggles to find her own vocal flavour, I understand why people think she can't sing. When I hear her voice, it feels like she's almost there but still lacks something. Whether it's an accent, a nasally tone, more projection, or anything that makes it stand out more. There's even a clip of Soyeon teaching Shuhua how to put more power into her part during Nxde singing, "How do I look?" during the studio recording. And she sounded really good to the point where it didn't sound like Shuhua at all. I do believe she has the talent to sing, but needs the consistent accommodations and guidance to sing well. Soyeon is an amazing leader for helping with that,

@gimlisonofgloin4083

5 ай бұрын

With the right technique you can sound better, but tone-deafness and lack of musicality ruins everything. Without hard work it is impossible to change it, but I never heard how she attended vocal lessons after tomboy success

@mymy2345hikaru

5 ай бұрын

Shuhua did vocal lessons when she came back to Taiwan while G-idle stopped all their activities

This was painful. 😓 Thank you for tackling this subject with grace and respect! I personally think rapping should also be addressed as it seems to be relegated to members who can’t contribute vocally, but whose technical elements aren’t taken seriously for some reason.

@favorsoe8248

4 ай бұрын

Lol

Loved this! I've also mentioned the same things with Taehyun, I also suspect he enjoys how that tension feels and sounds now. I hope he gets lucky like Xtina did and doesn't have any long term damage cos if he gets away with it then that'll be lucky for us lol. Also discussions like this are so important because it feels like a lot of fans forget that idols are singers lol. Like you said at the end. Like yes, performance is a HUUUUUGEE part of K-pop but without singing you're dance crews and we get reminded all the time that "X has to sing live, they're not dance crews" and yet there's zero focus/training on vocal stability/consistency and training which is a shame because it all goes back to that. Xiumin was not lying! Great video!

@momoyromas9456

7 ай бұрын

What did Xiumin say?

@averyatwell95

7 ай бұрын

​@@momoyromas9456 I think he said in music industry dancing isn't as important as singing & if you only dance without knowing how to sing, you don't look like you're talented.

@TyTrack_127

7 ай бұрын

Sm is also known to focus on singing the most which i really love

i definitely see the full potential that taehyun's voice has. as a fan i like his voice, but how he uses it sometimes is definitely not healthy for him. i would love to see taehyun work on letting go of that strain and tension. recently though, i think his voice sounds a lot more open in txt's new song "skipping stones", this song suits his voice and range so well in my opinion!

Taehyun is a prime example of “hitting high notes doesn’t make you a good vocalist”. Without proper support you’re just straining and ruining your vocal cords. I’m sure if they focus more on vocal lessons everyone here can improve

As I thought, no SM idols. I know for a fact, even after debut, SM idols get vocal training and are taught great habits. Even the SM rappers can hold a note without looking like their vocal chords are suffering

@ireneasare9552

7 ай бұрын

this is an illusion imo. sm idols are trained to sound good. look at EXO like this. besides the holy Trinity, the others are at best average. and even the term average only applies to chanyeol and suho. but they don't sound bad. same with dream. haechan is probably the only one with support. chenle especially strains so much but he has been trained to sound good despite not having a strong technique

@finuandrea

7 ай бұрын

​@@ireneasare9552Still so much better than your overrated overhyped talentless fave.

@sabiaakthar1613

7 ай бұрын

@@ireneasare9552but they never sound shit

@fluffypocky

7 ай бұрын

Yea there are plenty of below average vocalists in sm lmao

@finuandrea

7 ай бұрын

@@fluffypocky Not as many as overrated overhyped ones from your company's fave.

Fans will never accept that their favorite doesn't sing well. You could make a ranking of idols who didn't sing well but who have improved their technique.

@kaelynsmith1242

7 ай бұрын

Right. Some fans seem to think their favs have to be perfect at everything it’s ok to like them and realize that the don’t sing well

@lainelaine8533

7 ай бұрын

Yeah. They think this kind of commentaries and videos are somewhat a jab on their faves and that for them this automatically means that they are not good as an idol where you only point out what is their weak point and not saying that are bad overall.

The haters of Mia really need to watch this video... Adios demo is already biggest example why producer gave that last pre-chorus to Mia at last moment

This is why I never understood why fans get mad that a certain member doesn't get lines. Most likely they don't want lines or aren't fit to sing at all.

@HahaHaha-jx4le

Ай бұрын

True. The problem is, some that are here gets lots of lines

Lets be real, Most of Hybe's Vocalists are average. The only main vocalists that have great vocals are Seungkwan, DK and (Jiwon & JK to an extent ig). Its makes me question if the companies under Hybe even give enough vocal training to their groups. Like Lesserafim or TXT or BTS etc have vocalists that have techniques that hurt their vocal chords. I am not a singer by any means but it so obvious that it is hurting or might potential hurt them.

@beomgyuarmpithair

7 ай бұрын

And surprisingly newjeans got some decent vocalists

@Robalexe

7 ай бұрын

NewJeans might not have a lot of breath support, but their singing is actually good

@valentine9178

7 ай бұрын

I think that HYBE doesn't focus at all in their idols' vocal technique, like the second they can barely hold a note they debut as long as they are good dancers and performers. The only idols that are great vocalists as you mentioned are Dk and Seungkwan and they weren't even HYBE trainees 😅

@Robalexe

7 ай бұрын

@@valentine9178 Huh Yunjin?

@valentine9178

7 ай бұрын

@@Robalexe she wasn't trained in HYBE either! She was a pledis trainee before going to HYBE, so her vocal training isn't thanks to them

Onda and Yiren are on the STRUGGLE BUS

@ensulalachance8353

7 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

@sparksparkle

7 ай бұрын

💀💀💀👏

I completely feel you on Sana. She's my bias in Twice (for many reasons). In their studio recordings, her voice is my favourite to listen to because of its sweet tone. But her live singing is pretty cringe :(

What ive noticed is that when a K-pop idol debuts they will rarely end up improving there vocals, because they are already successful the company doesn't feel the need to improve their vocal skills.

Dude, I love your channel. You're so respectful and objective. Plus, I can learn a lot.

@aintnootherfan

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!! I appreciate that so much😊

Everything you said about Shuhua is mainly true (tho we could agree that she's been improving to the point of not being embarassing in Killing Voice). For me, what saves shuhua is that she is a top tier visual. Not because she is pretty, which is also true, but because her acting skills. Her facial expressions are one of the best among GG, and in MVs she alwayd stands out in expressing emotions (check I DO or I WANT THAT). Gidle is fine because they have members that are good singers, dancers and rappers, Shuhua has her role: she is their main VISUAL.

@yetanotherYTuser2

7 ай бұрын

@@vixxexo6855 this may be true, but Soyeon has said that Shuhua's visuals fit gidle's colours better than Miyeon's. Are you going to argue about gidle with soyeon? ;)

@yetanotherYTuser2

7 ай бұрын

@@vixxexo6855 being a visual isnt only being beautiful. It is also the ability to transmit the emotion of the song. And Shuhua is the best actress in gidle.

@Noturprob123

7 ай бұрын

​@@vixxexo6855spotted shuhua hater right here😂

@user-mt4ot2xl5h

7 ай бұрын

Thought she is really pretty and as you said has good acting skills I have to point out in the nicest way possible that the only reason her singing wasn’t “embarrassing” in Killing Voice was because she had the biggest backtrack and the lowest mic… she did not improve her singing. The few lines she manages to execute decently aren’t hard at all, you and I could do it effortlessly while dancing an ITZY dance break. Tho she DEFINITELY improved her stage attitude starting from tomboy era, so only recently, she still lacks in everything else. If she was an incredible dancer or even performer since the beginning then it would have been fine to disregard her vocals but being added to a group bc of great expression and good acting skills is a bit… questionable…

@Noturprob123

7 ай бұрын

@@vixxexo6855 btw miyeon is not their visual. Soyeon said this herself that shuhua's beauty fits g idle more which explains why shuhua became the visual of g idle.

we need part 2 with more male idols cause i barely saw one here...don't mind the fandoms as long as you're respectful

@Simon05212

7 ай бұрын

Jimin deserves to be on this list he's the worst vocalist in Kpop techniquewise

thanks for the video! I never studied music, so I can only judge about smth based on my personal impressions and feelings, that's why I appreciate more professional and objective points of view! A little suggestion for the future: could you please also add the group name next to the idol name? I don't know members of many groups, so even though I understood in the end members of which groups were meant, it would be very helpful if it is stated at the beginning! thank you again for an interesting analysis!

kpop stans need to realize that sometimes a member gets less lines for a reason. it's not because the producer hates them, it's not because the other members are stealing their spotlight, it's simply because they're not a good vocalist yet. and it's okay to admit that, don't put your idols on a pedestal. they need criticism so that they can improve. this is their job, after all. i saw a reel of sakura where she said that her vocal coach (i think?) told her that her vocals were weak. and so many fans were pressed in the comments? i swear sometimes fans act like they know more than trained vocalists or vocal coaches, it's ridiculous. sakura needs honest feedback and criticism so that she could sing better, but fans act like she's already perfect. same goes for a lot of other idols who need improvement in various areas. fans take it so personally when they could just admit that their faves are still human, and move on.

I am not a linguist but I think, the Japanese language also affects the singing of some of the idols mentioned here. As a person who sometimes enjoy Japanese media, I noticed that when they get excited, their pitch tend to go up, but their voices shift to head voice instead of this "mixy" voice that some people do or use. My theory is that they were used to doing this and that it made their mid range of their chest voice not well-developed. That is probably the reason why it's hard for them to sing higher that requires their chest voice. They should do vocal exercises on developing their belting voice. Companies should also stop giving lines to their idols that are too high for their vocal ranges. It's like letting someone make dinner who can't even cook yet. Or, do not debut someone who can't sing yet or who can't sing at all.

@jbonceu2457

7 ай бұрын

You are so goddamn spot on with this. Like even before I always notice, how many izone members have that high pitch cutesy singing voice? Almost all of them are japanese! Very interesting...

@Quon

7 ай бұрын

like 3 out of 12 are japanese but yeah they're right. Japanese people also have a nasal tone when they speak @@jbonceu2457

@seafoodjapchae

7 ай бұрын

As a person who loves both anime music and kpop it's very true,all of Japanese idols have this 'kawaii head voice and nasal tone' which is really pleasant to listen in native but don't work in other genres or languages

@mindingminesx

6 ай бұрын

@@jbonceu2457literally only 3 were japanese lmao

@jbonceu2457

6 ай бұрын

@@mindingminesx is that suppose to mean anything cause my point is still the same regardless?

This is brutally honest FACT that Shuhua really wouldn't survive without Soyeon and her ability to hide Shuhua's flaws(no hate)

@Zyazyo0

7 ай бұрын

True 💀💀. Shuhua is lucky because her producer is her member.

@soy_zyo

7 ай бұрын

Fr@@Zyazyo0

@seafoodjapchae

7 ай бұрын

Lmao it kinda hurts since I like Shuhua a lot but it's true

I don't get why so many of these groups sound, look, and perform terribly when they're NOT dancing! It's as if the groups entire appeal is tied to dance!

Except Taehyun the other are expected About vocal training i do think that Since BTS and BlackPink success compagnies tended to neglegted vocal training, because they are more strong in rap/dancing area (of course they have, Jungkook, V and Rosé who are pretty decent but we are far from groups as exo or mamamoo) But since aespa sucess Compagnies tend to debut more decent or good vocalist or push more vocally their debuted idol (*cough* JYP *cough*) Look at BabyMonster, in my opinion overall aespa and nmixx still better in this area, but they are definitivel'y above BP. It sad to say it but it's depends of the popular group of the pyramid I think the same thing can be said in dance and rap

@DREAM-re2up

7 ай бұрын

V and Rose have horrible vocal technique though. V hardly has any range and I think he could do so much more with a good trainer, same issue with Jimin. How Jimin hasn't gotten any vocal nodules is just luck because you can tell he is staining his chords so bad. I strongly doubt Hybe has a really really great vocal trainer like SM.... well they might steal him too like they did with other SM employees haha

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

​@@DREAM-re2up i disgree i believe that V is more close to jk than Jimin or Jin, but yes they could way much better, also BTS vocal line seem to wanting more focus on technique than their debut especially jk and jimin, both of them said that they take vocal lessons imo Jisoo is more comparable to Jimin than Rosé honestly

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

@@DREAM-re2up and for the vocal trainer i think Hybe dont want investing much on vocal training even that they have the money for, but i think either bts vocal line ask for as top tier vocal trainers or they hired themselfs a good trainer. i belive that bts 1st coach wasn't good V once said that their trainer used to scold him because he dont sing high (lol his natural tone is low )

@chidinmaenemanna

7 ай бұрын

This sounds weird why would jyp invest in vocals coz of aespa????The trainees were already chosen this sounds really weird jyp focused on vocals coz of aespa?Pls bfr

@NingKook_

7 ай бұрын

@@chidinmaenemanna Because all JYP do is copy cat famous and successfull groups If you want an exemple it simple : BTS and Black Pink who arent strong vocaly explode worldwide they debut itzy and skz who are weak vocaly (except woojin) aespa who are a strong vocal group succeed they debut nmixx who are a strong vocal group and push itzy and skz vocaly

I felt sad to the guy from txt, hope his agency let him use another vocal technique for higher notes because his voice sounds strained now.

These idols mentioned are like me. I can’t sing for the life of me and when I do try, it’s forced. It’s how these non singer idols are, they just got trained so they can hold a tune long enough to do their small part for recording. But any more and they fail. It’s kinda sad cause even past kpop idols who couldn’t sing seemed to have better vocal control. But I think the lack of emphasis on decent vocals has left current kpop.

1:24 as an EXO stan I love hearing people mentions Jongdae as he is a Vocal Final Boss

@ladymoon7327

2 ай бұрын

As Chen's bias, same! 😭

@BY-mf3jy

2 ай бұрын

@@ladymoon7327 aww I am Jongdae biased as well🥹

@ladymoon7327

2 ай бұрын

@@BY-mf3jy 😭💛

bro is saying what the world was too scared to say

Thank you for the Sana critique! I couldn’t figure out why I disliked her voice and you helped me understand!

Someone please SAVE shuhua from her pitch issues. It's actually killing me inside whenever she sings without autotune or backing track, because every single line she sings is out of tune. She has a very pretty and unique voice, but her pitch issues are so serious that she's possibly the worst singer in Kpop.

@goldenhourss

7 ай бұрын

as much as I love her, she’s the perfect example of how kpop values visuals above everything else

@annanowak9620

7 ай бұрын

Cube needs to find good trainers. Shuhua cannot improve without them. Also, she is a tone deaf so its ill be very hard for her to improve :( bur its not her fault. But she still improved a lot since debnut

@favorsoe8248

4 ай бұрын

@@goldenhoursslol

we definitely need a part two of this

It's cool that you also bring up their technique even tho they sound good. It's important ❤️

Thank you for speaking the truth and being able to give constructive criticism and at the same time being very respectful about it!

I was always excited to hear shuhua sing her parts live but she never sounds anything like the recording

I hope there will be a second part of this video, I think we definitely need it

First of all definitely needs a part two cause I saw the teaser and was expecting Cheryl length video. Gidle is one of my all time favorites and Shuhua is my bias wrecker. But I have to agree... She's made improvements in so many areas and had to work on her Korean. However, in my opinion her vocals should have shown more improvement over the years.

Thank you for not attacking the idols and actually giving out fair criticism

@greenthinggg

7 ай бұрын

Fr! No name calling no shaming just genuine constructive criticism I love this video

Omg i was literally jaw dropped when Taehyun came up, because I'd never group him with everyone else in this video, because at the least, Taehyun CAN reach these notes and have perfect pitch, even if he is struggling and straining like you said.

@goldenhourss

6 ай бұрын

true. he can carry his notes well

@Owa_mzz

5 ай бұрын

No fr,I was like whatttt?????

@Kais_Peaches

5 ай бұрын

They still sound pretty awful in terms of techniqe

@ariellakim

4 ай бұрын

this channel focuses alot on technique, something that taehyun doesn't have unfortunately

I love your honesty i feel like a like of stans give them a pass and says it doesn't matter when it really does

I think out of all of these idols, Taehyun is the best. Imo, he has technique and is actually really good in 90% of TXT’s songs. The problem is (like you said), Hybe makes him sing these ridiculously high notes he literally cannot hit. Bc he’s the main vocal, he’s kind of the only one to even attempt them. In any TXT song he isn’t scream-singing in, he’s really impressive.

I would like you to make a video analyzing zb1 or at least the main vocalists of the group (ofc only if you want). They debuted two months ago (from a survival show called boys planet) and they caught my attention for their vocals. In my opinion they have one of the best vocals I've seen in a while (i'm only talking about boygroups from these last few years, not in general)

@nylawalker1629

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely. 9/9 have support and having Taerae and Zhanghao in the group is already a cheat code.

@user-qk4gh6in9m

7 ай бұрын

@@nylawalker1629 also Gunwook even though he's the main rapper but he sings really well too

@ashmitamandal8285

7 ай бұрын

They are the best in 5th gen overall, me thinks :D I can already foresee Taerae and Hao reaching Hui's level

@Gush12

7 ай бұрын

ZB1's vocals are amazing 🤩

Thank you sooo! So tired of the blind funs already. When you tell them they are bad at smth funs are So agressive because dont have any critic mind, even if some idols are obviously bad. Someone had to do

I actually agree with the Taehyun one a lot. I think he’s know for his vocal tone but I always feel like it’s piercing for the wrong reasons…I noticed it when I saw txt live this year and I was worried for his voice I hope he can work on his technique bc he’s got a great vocal range

The problem with Sakura’s voice is that even her normal speaking voice is very nasally and shaky + breathy. I think she needs to relearn her breathing technique first then she can tackle the vocals. I really wanna see her overcome this problem

TxT's VMA performance of Coming Back for More really showed Taehyun's lacking control of and technique in his voice. It's especially apparent in his first part in the performance

When I started getting into everglow I quickly became aware of how little lines Onda gets(esp in everglow's early days) but I was like "maybe she doesn't have good vocals" but I heard so many forevers say she used to be a lead vocalist( idk if thats true) and that now she's a sub vocalist so I thought it was just Yehua being terrible at managing their groups as usual. I only learned today,from this video that she actually doesn't know how to sing which makes me wonder how did she manage to sing ALL of those lines in "promise"?? Also I knew Shuhua would be here, but thank god she is because the amount of times I see neverlands comment on how little lines Shuhua gets in a song while she probably barely manages to sing the 2 lines she usualy gets without sounding like she just danced to itzy's discography for 2 hours straight...

@saennlea

6 ай бұрын

I believe Onda was always labeled as sub-vocal, but some sites that upload members' profiles (like kpofiles and ect.) got it wrong and labeled her as lead, that's where the confusion came from

U could also make a video about how these idols can improve

@mimi09126

7 ай бұрын

That is genius 👏 🙌

@Justin_isslpng

7 ай бұрын

To be honest, this should've been included in this video to lower the blow tbh

@uc6758

7 ай бұрын

Actually thats gonna a hella longass video even for each idol here 😅. Otherwise its just gonna be a shallow advice.

@mimi09126

7 ай бұрын

@uc6758 maybe Split it in several videos

@T_kats

7 ай бұрын

He gave tips at the end and the flaws he pointed out apply to just about every weak vocalist in kpop.

The thing with Momo is, she has a deeper voice and they force her to to sing higher than she's used to. You can hear that in songs like marshmallow, hell in heaven, and do not touch vs feel special, likey and others. As a lady with a deep voice who likes to sing, I can advocate to you that, its a bit harder to maintain a higher note while you're singing

@reyphobic

6 ай бұрын

no. please stop using the old “shes forced to sing higher than she’s used to” SHE CANT SING. i love her but you can clearly tell her best trait is dancing and she does it better than everyone else. stop trying to make excuses for her. If she was given a tone shes “used to” it wouldn’t be singing, itd be talking.

@someoneelseishere5964

6 ай бұрын

​@@reyphobicNah, because in Marshmallow she sounded great, they aren't making excuses, she can sing, they just need to let her sing in her normal register more. I think what OP said is true, but if you think otherwise, then to each their own.

@reyphobic

6 ай бұрын

@@someoneelseishere5964 i understand where you're coming from but eh, i still think the excuse is over used now. yeah if i view it from your perspective ,she can sing but is it enough? no. sounding great ≠ singer. i just think people should start acknowledging that some idols need training rather than making excuses for them. but yeah I can see it that way too

@someoneelseishere5964

6 ай бұрын

@@reyphobic I never said that sounding great=singer. I just said that she can sing and used Marshmallow as an example, because she sounded great in that song. But I am aware that she lacks vocal training and needs it.

@reyphobic

6 ай бұрын

@@someoneelseishere5964 alright, fair

We need part 2,3,4 and so on. There are more idols who needs to be on the list.

You make a great judge. You point out their flaws and tell them how they should improve. You don’t bashed or trash them like most of the KZreadr who think they know all.

taehyun on this list honestly gagged me but i cant argue, i feel like a lot of the time if kpop stans decide someone is the "best" at whatever, they kinda become blind to the flaws that idol has. it's prevalent in dance too; there are certain idols that are worshipped by kpop stans who are lacking in either the technique or musicality areas (or both) but im not naming names bcs i wanna keep my address private 😘

@Simon05212

7 ай бұрын

His technique is nothing amazing but he's miles better than others on this list Like u cannot compare him to Sana Shuhua Sakura or Momo

I love how professionally you explained these, you obviously know a lot about singing & vocals!

I feel bad watching the Taehyun part, he's visibly struggling hitting those high notes

Some people are not meant to sing, thats a talent you are born with! Of course you can improve but your voice is not gonna change drastically

It hurts to see this as a MOA, but I know I needed to hear this. I cannot keep blinding myself to his straining and improper vocal techniques. He’s hurting himself. He’s still so young and has so much potential so I really hope hybe hires a good vocal coach. With a good coach and his amount of passion and effort, he would be improving so fast

Labels should hire people who watch these kinds of videos for them because this are some very important critism and should be heard by both the companies and the artists.

Yeah, even I can sing better than Shuhua. I can't criticize them for not concentrating on vocals because I feel like vocals aren't their main focus, instead, dancing, performing, and visuals are their main focus. But I feel like they are giving them harder and harder songs that they can't sing without having a foundation for what good vocal technique is. Vocal lessons would definitely benefit them

Kpop fans these days are so used to idols lipsyncing to the point that they accept any live vocal their favs can give despite it being bad. That’s why they can’t accept any constructive criticism on their fav idols and sees it as hate.

@SirivsVi

7 ай бұрын

Right! The vocal bar is in hell

I think that sakura is very discouraged from the hate she got, and i agree with you: with training and a bit confidence she could become pretty good

probably 99.9% of idols can be here because they all get too difficult lines. for weak vocalists they get medium difficulty lines, for better vocalists they get extremely high difficulty lines, so in the end they all need more training.