I rocked the same agp HD 4670 gpu with a Prescott P4 until 2010. By then, it was a struggle just watching 720p KZread videos. Its crazy looking back, the typical hdd size was 40 gigs, and the rig i'm typing this comment with has 64 gigs of memory alone.

@RetroKomodo

5 ай бұрын

The march forward of technology is staggering sometimes! Apart from pcie gen 5. That's kinda pointless.. but I know exactly what you mean and I'm looking forward to see what comes next - and then after that!

Tell me ONE reason why you don’t start the Y AXIS at 0!

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

I'm going with incompetence? I'm still fairly new to this having only done what - 47 videos now? Sometimes I just forget to do obvious stuff!

I had the IceQ PCI-E version of the HD4670, lasted me good 10 years. Of course not as the main driver after 3 years of gaming (dropped in a 7850), but allowed my dad's machine to boot.

Love the choice of background music, and the little Batman-esque separator segment lmao. Also, the work you put into this! Thanks! I have an old PII rig with an ATI Rage Pro 128MB AGP card I bought eons ago... From what I remember, everything works still. Even the PSU! 😄😬 IDE hdd had crapped out last time I tried turning it on. Which sucks because I recall having some irreplaceable data of old on it. Been thinking of snagging one of those IDE to SD card kits for it, and upgrading the cpu and gpu.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

The batman transition will return!! 😀

Interesting Video. Thanks for sharing.

Back in 2009 I went for the HIS HD3850 ICEQ3 Turbo AGP 512MB 256Bt GDDR3 this card was the one for me to use my reso was 1600x1200x32 @ 100Hz and at this reso the 256Bit bus really did a good job, FS 2004, Ship Simulator 2004, Quake III Arena, UT2004, F.E.A.R. Combat but also some older games the HD 3850 ICEQ3 Turbo AGP pulled it all off nicely HL2 ran just fine as well the card I use ran in a Dual OpteronMP 850 CG 2x 2.4Ghz K8 CPU's it was a lovely build, but hey man lovely video I also subscribed I'll also share your channel at x-3dfx with credits to you of course :) Greets Willem B from x-3dfx.

@RetroKomodo

8 ай бұрын

Nice setup!! I would do 1600x1200 tests as well, but unfortunately my recording setup only goes up to 1080.. I need to invest in some more expensive kit!

@obi-wankenobi1190

8 ай бұрын

@@RetroKomodo yea aseptically nowadays even tretro hardware isn't cheap, I do miss the old days where could could pick up a Voodoo5 5500 PCI Macintosh for just 60 USD and be happy with it, or even the MSI MS-9130 K8T Master2 -FAR that I had, was so easy to find in the timeline of 2004 to 201, the more improved MS9617 is more of like a holy grail it seems near to impossible to get hands on

@RetroKomodo

8 ай бұрын

@obi-wankenobi1190 it's up to us to be custodians of the past for the curious of the future. Just a shame it's so bloody expensive!

@obi-wankenobi1190

8 ай бұрын

@@RetroKomodo Over valuing is a major issue within the retro community left stand hoarders they don't solve it for that of others, at x-3dfx we do not allow people that join just to sell their retro hardware we are actually trying to take on the problem than just walking away from it, our anti capitalism campaign for 3dfx hardware does have a good effect. Seeing some ask 2500 Eur for a regular Voodoo5 5500 AGP is stupendous or 10.000+ USD for a Voodoo5 6000 Rev.A 3700 the most common revision of all 7 revisions... I mean why? Why do people keep doing that? I will never get it I only think that greed is at play. And such people are ruining it for everyone, they are the cause of all issues we are facing within the retro hardware community in it's whole. Retro computers should be enjoyable for all people and not just the greedy rich vultures.

I'm grabbing a 4670 off of Kijiji tomorrow for 20 Canadian dollars. Thank you for posting this. My windows XP machine thanks you.

@RetroKomodo

7 ай бұрын

20? That's an excellent find!!

Danggg so nostalgic i use to have that exact HD 3850 AGP 😂

Great vid May i suggest a new vid AGP vs PCIE 3850 , because you already have em😁 Thanks in advance if you make it

@RetroKomodo

6 ай бұрын

I think that can be arranged!!

Very interesting how different aspects of the card effects the performance in various tasks. I knew the HD3850 was faster overall but could only find the HD4670 for an AGP overclocking competition so didn't do too well compared to those with the 3000 series card.

Cool channel. Keep up the good work. Not many KZreadrs spend the time to actually check their results and just make videos for shills.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm making videos I might be interested in if I were watching the channel. No sponsor, no monetisation. Just piles of old tech and occasionally enough time to put towards making a video on it!

3850 can win for the better bus width, in fact, 46x0 was a low-medium card, never a "high-end" card like 3850. On the other hand, maybe, the engine of Far Cry 2 was prepared for ATI 3xx0, and for that, it is better 3850 instead the 4670. Half-life 2 was made with money of ATI. Exciting video, you can improve the comparison with the X1950XT AGP. AFAIK, this card can win with old games but will lose with new games because it is DX9.0c. For that, people prefer this card to 3850. PS: I bought a 3850 PCIe for €85, it was medium-end. Now, the card of the same type is ++500€... Nvidia and AMD lost their mind.

@RetroTinkerer

Жыл бұрын

Hello, really a 200$ January 2008 was high end? Even the 3870 wasn't up to compete with the 8800GT, yes the 4670 was a lower tier card but the 3850 was maximum a mid/low tier one, it was awesome for AGP but not in general term.

@RetroKomodo

9 ай бұрын

Well, high end for AGP certainly!

Years ago I tried two HD 3850's in Crossfire. I wasn't aware that the Diamond cards weren't Crossfire compatible. I went to the 7800 GTX after that failed attempt.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Expensive memories. I can't quite remember what they were, but I know I had £700 worth of Nvidia cards in sli at one point, then the following year I replaced both with a single ATI card. I changed hardware so much back then it's easy to loose track!

It would be easy to make HD 3870 AGP: just replace the chip with the one from PCIE card. Or overclock HD 3850 for the same results. That PCI-E > AGP bridge should also work for higher end 4xxx chips, and if someone is crazy enough, should be possible to make "HD 4850 AGP" card. As for now, I think the make takeaway is if you want top AGP performance all over the board, one should get both HD 3850 and HD 4670.

@RetroKomodo

11 ай бұрын

Well I probably am that crazy, but unfortunately my soldering gear and skill are waaaay below what is required for doing that. Fortunately I have both cards though ;)

@wasd____

9 ай бұрын

You forgot the part where you'd have to write your own video BIOS for it because there is no existing video BIOS for an AGP HD 3870. Also the part where you'd have to create your own drivers because there are no AGP 3870 drivers.

@RetroKomodo

9 ай бұрын

@@wasd____ there is that too 😁

Now that's a comparison I still want to do myself

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

I think it's one where if you have both you absolutely should. I wouldn't have thought the end results would be massively dissimilar on a different setup? but different drivers and hardware would definitely make a difference.

I had a lot of late AGP cards, but the best I tested is still X1950GT, it has the best raw performance which you need in some games. Now I have HD2600XT and HD4650 AGP versions and both are weaker than X1950GT. But X1950 is huge and hot like hell and it's hard to find some operable one, so find some low TDP HD4650 is probably better for AGP Win XP gaming, these low TDP GPUs from late AGP time with simple cores and only few capacitors and simple PCB are immortal while cards like X1950 are not reliable in these days. But I generally don't recommend these AGP cards if you are not really crazy and you just want to do it, these cards make no sense, it's bottlenecked in AGP motherboards with some Pentium 4 and boards with socket 775 and AGP slot are rare and also there is problem with ocmpatibility and drivers with these GPUs.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Driver compatibility can indeed be a pain but that's why I did dedicated videos on finding the best performing ones ;) I've also been very lucky in getting my rarer top end ones at decent prices through eBay - thankfully they all work! My test rig is pretty fast for APG so lets them run (about) as fast as they can!

@Pidalin

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo When I bought HD4650 AGP, I thought it's broken, it took me like 2 days before I finally found drivers which work with that, which were 12.3 AGP hotfix, no other driver worked. 🙂 With x1650 AGP I had other problem, with the last drivers from AMD websites, it's saying that GPU has no VRAM, other drivers had some ohter problems, so again, I had to test like 5 different versions before I finally found something realiable. Nvidia is better in that you mostly at least can install drivers and it kind of works, but with nvidia, you have artifacts in older games (like AvP from 1999) with newer drivers, so again, you have to test 10 different drivers and keep those with the best compatibility. It's really a pain, but I have nothing better to do in my free time. 😀 And other problem is that download buttons on old websites mostly don't work anymore and it's more anre more hard to find some different drivers than those the most recent from official web site, I have some older or more common drivers from really obscure web sites, so I have to backup it for future generations. 😀

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@Pidalin good idea! I might put all the drivers I've collected into a shared Google drive folder to make them easier for people to find!

It gets worse if you end up buying a cheap DDR2 version of the 4670. The memory bandwidth is abysmal and the 3850 absolutely shames it. I honestly feel like it's pretty scummy when card makers create crippled variants with really slow memory to trick people into thinking they're getting a good deal on a card that _sounds_ like it should have decent performance to those not quite tech savvy enough to realize what the finer details imply.

@RetroKomodo

9 ай бұрын

Yeah. The 4670 *should* be a better card, but then you use it :( One of the things I hate is getting a GPU only to find I didn't look into the model enough, and then, for example, I find it's the 64 bus width version and not 128.. I guess that doesn't happen so much any more, but as a collector of old stuff it can be a bit of a minefield! Pickings are getting slimmer as time goes by, so unfortunately sometimes there isn't any choice BUT to get the crippled version :(

graphics cards with videoram ddr1 and ddr2 memory for the agp bus will work better than ddr3 computer systems microsoft dos require 64 bit and 128 bit memory, newer windows 2000, windows xp require 192 bit and 256 bit graphics cards, newer windows vista graphical interface, windows 7, windows 8 require geforce 6800 ultra is the weakest graphics card required to watch HD movies in the future, therefore geforce 6800 ultra agp or radeon x1950 xt agp are a better choice for the future for retro desktops

@terrapinflyer273

Жыл бұрын

Wow. So what's the WinOS compatibility range then for the 6800?

@RetroKomodo

9 ай бұрын

From looking at the Nvidia drivers page it looks like there are supported drivers for Windows 95 through to Windows 8!

I owned both back in the day, not wanting to throw out my trustworthy Socket 478 system with the Pentium-M 740. I remember it was quite annoying with the drivers, until I finally built a completely new PC based on an i5-2500k and switched back to nvidia an of course to PCI-E.

@RetroKomodo

10 ай бұрын

Oh yes. Far less hassle!

What do we think.. should I try the same tests in a Windows version that uses Directx 10? 🤔

@agsel

Жыл бұрын

Nice video and topic but I find your graphs highly offensive and visually misleading, please reconsider that part of otherwise interesting content. Make the Y axis start from 0 instead of whatever arbitrary number you feel like from test to test.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@agsel thanks for the suggestion - I agree! I'm just using PowerPoint at the moment and inputting the resulting figures. I'll look into a more suitable solution. I'd love to do something like Gamers Nexus uses at some point

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@agsel I'm investigating at the moment, but as a one man band with no budget i'm looking at free options. Some look promising but not particularly snazzy - any suggestions welcome!

i have that exact 3850 and i couldn't believe it uses thermal pads on the memory chips.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

I had a homemade copper heat sink on them at some point but had to take it off to fit the current cooler. Just figured it wise to keep it as cool as possible!

@michaelwood9866

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo yep i believe it takes 2 6 pin connectors for power? originally a pcie card only then they released an agp version with that bridge chip u see on the back

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelwood9866 The PCIE version takes a 6 pin power connector and the AGP takes an 8 pin. Not sure which GPU was first to use two power cables but it isn't this one!

@michaelwood9866

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo yea I saw that after I looked at mine…..still odd that it would use a 8 pin for power on agp tho

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelwood9866 my guess is the extra power pins on the AGP version are to power the Rialto bridge chip for the conversion process 🤔

The 3870 had an AGP variant as well.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Apparently it was never realised though :( www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-hd-3870-agp.c3326

@themobster7284

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo I have the HD3850 version of this HIS IceQ III, very good card, but the factory bios have dumb low af fan curve, meaning the cards usually overheat from miserable low fan speed.. Once edited the fan curve, the card performs great...

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@themobster7284 mine is the sapphire one but with a different cooler on it, so temps are not an issue

@themobster7284

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo Yeah saw that.. Btw i also have an Sapphire HD3850 AGP, i can say for single slot cooler, they cool fine, no need of bigger cooler really..

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@themobster7284 86 degrees and incredibly loud!! I've tried 4 or 5 coolers on it for testing and all were quieter and cooled better kzread.info/dash/bejne/aqmZrbeQn6Xbaaw.html & kzread.info/dash/bejne/io6o0LWfnd2qYZM.html

I think u mad an mistake.. I mean some guy named " Agent 007" in the Vogons or was TPU forums, did test on these 2 cards, but properly, with quad core 775 system, as he said anything less then powerful quad core will result in Radeon HD3850 AGP bottleneck, and the card will not show its full potential... And with powerful quad core the HD3850 did win in about all scenarios..

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Which is exactly what happened here..? If you can find the forum link I'll check it out!

Ok, but will they run on Win98? I'm only into gaming on vintage pcs, so if there isn't any support for Win98, they wouldn't be of interest to me

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

No 98 with these cards I'm afraid. I'm tinkering with 98 builds at the moment on another couple of PC's though, so there should be some relevant Windows 9x content in the future!

@the_motherfucker

Жыл бұрын

The last AGP ATI cards to support Windows 98 are the Radeon 9*** series from 2003

@justsumguy2u

Жыл бұрын

@@the_motherfucker Thank you, that is helpful

@foch3

Жыл бұрын

​@@the_motherfucker Radeon X850XT is the last Radeon with 98 support.

I had a 3850, it won me over to AMD Cards.

I'd still pick the HD4670 as the FASTEST AGP VIDEO CARD IN HE WORLD! I like to see the comparison of the two in overclocked. The 3850 was an overclocked card while the 4670 is not that is why its TDP is lower than the 3850. If it is higher it will easily defeat the 3850 in all test!

@RetroKomodo

7 күн бұрын

The GPU clock on the 3850 is almost 100mhz LESS than the clock on the 4670. Overclocking the 4670 would help a bit I guess? But I don't overclock my old cards..

@GoodBoy-io6fd

7 күн бұрын

@@RetroKomodo For What Reason?

@dickkickemthereckoning7425

5 күн бұрын

Prob bc those two agp cards are worth more then some people's daily driver GPUs they are very rares​@@GoodBoy-io6fd

What if... we could transfer the memory chips from a 1GB PCIe version to the AGP? 🤔

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't the interface still just be 128-bit though?

@setoman1

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo No no, not like that. There is a 1GB PCIe version of the HD 3850. From what I can tell, the boards are identical. Shouldn’t be too difficult to transplant the larger memory chips onto the AGP card.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@setoman1 Sorry - I don't know why but I thought you meant on the 4670! Well that could be interesting.. 🤔 Unfortunately my soldering skills are borderline non existent, and although I DO have a second 3850, I'm not willing to sacrifice it for science!!

phenom x4 9950 black edition, gigabyte ma790fx DQ6, ddr2 16gb, geforce gtx 480 or geforce 8800gtx, windows vista ultimate

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a great setup!

@terrapinflyer273

Жыл бұрын

Hmm... Is that mobo and 8800 gpu Win98 compatible? I wonder... I have 2 nearly identical nForce4 boards I tried everything with to get Win98 running natively on. nForce4 has Win98 drivers, but they're JUST out of range for chipset driver compatibility. Apparently there are no issues w nForce3 boards... 🙃

The first ever GPU I purchased was the HIS HD4670 AGP. I was a broke student and wanted to play FF14 1.0 badly. It got the job done paired with a second hand Dual Core Opteron stock clocked at 2.0Ghz .. good times.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

Ah, memories.. ace!

@setoman1

Жыл бұрын

Me too, actually! But I found out that this card was incompatible with my VIA chipset, and had to return it 😭

X1950GT vs HD3850?

@RetroKomodo

13 күн бұрын

I believe it's still the 3850. Check out www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=57902 :)

What about DX10 bro!

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

I asked if anyone was interested in Directx 10 two weeks ago! All I got was someone saying they didn't like my bar charts.. certainly worth a look! DX10. Not the bar charts.

@CompatibilityMadness

Жыл бұрын

@@RetroKomodo Just use [0], as base or start value for X/Y axis. Seeing 1/3 of graph cut on slower card and you saying "it's 5% worse", can trigger some math people.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

@@CompatibilityMadness So I've found! Agreed - going forward there'll be a 0 figure 👍

This is kinda odd. I used to own a 4670 and I remember it was quite cheap. I was a college student so I couldn't afford the latest shiniest thing.

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

AGP or PCIE?

I miss the old art on boxes and the card now days is that every thing is stripped down half asst and blane and boring no box art so on.Every thing is garbage nowadays. From TV garbage to utility garbage to clothing and fashion is boring garbage. What happened?lol

@Pidalin

Жыл бұрын

I agree, but on other hand, those coolers back in the day were terrible.

@RetroKomodo

9 ай бұрын

Ah the good old days. Like the XFX bulldog-thing and so on.. www.theverge.com/2015/9/9/9274915/graphics-card-boxes-weird-art

My enema bag stinks

@RetroKomodo

Жыл бұрын

That's terrible news. I suspect it may be split.. might want to swap that over. Not entirely sure how that's a relevant comment on graphics card testing 🤔 but any discussion is welcome I guess!