I worked at IBM in Boulder and frequently saw Dr Joan Mitchell in the halls and also went to her talks at work . She was a wonderful person and on another level as far as intelligence. Thank you for giving her the credit she deserves. I had other workmates who worked on formats for images and printing. They are who I supported in my job.

I'm not in favour of standards that have a royalty payment associated with them. How about promoting open source standards instead.

@stuartschaffner9744

4 жыл бұрын

magottyk , so you think that engineers and software developers should work for free? Perhaps they should be so pleased to do good in the world that they will happily don homespun robes and carry a begging bowl from door to door of an eternally grateful community. /s

@VoidAndTheVoid

4 жыл бұрын

Open Source rarely works right unless well funded by someone.

@fofopho

4 жыл бұрын

Uneventful Event RAW isn’t a format though...

@stokedGSXR

4 жыл бұрын

@@VoidAndTheVoid this is not true at all. Depends on the software, and the team behind it.

@magottyk

4 жыл бұрын

@@stuartschaffner9744 Software developers shouldn't work for free, a consortium of all the major players who'd use an open source standard could pool resources to develop such a standard so that no one has to pay royalties. There's some very large companies who have no need of a proprietary format (there's lots of those and none of them are a standard) and use someone else's for their device. You seem to think that software developers and engineers are all entrepreneurs, newsflash most are wage slaves to large corporations who then own the rights to that work.

According to dpreview: "we saw that the new high efficiency format loses detail, especially in low-light shots. Compared to JPEG files, detail and colour looked smudged and smeared.W

@dragonball3166

3 жыл бұрын

I never read that but I won first place in photo competition using jpeg format

@mikeos1

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonball3166 absolutely. Most people are happy with jpeg. How many could tell the difference?.

Tony: We will make the greatest file format, and we will make JPG pay for it.

"I shoot HEIF, HEIC and HEVC " gonna look odd on a T-shirt 😁😁

@wahrerWalter

4 жыл бұрын

As does "i shoot jpg"

@mrdev9843

4 жыл бұрын

@@JoshFost Nice 👍

@waltertomashefsky2682

4 жыл бұрын

Don’t tell Fro🤭

@TracumsIvars

4 жыл бұрын

What the HEIC?! :D

@tolgahandonmez

4 жыл бұрын

I shoot the HEIF, but I did not shoot the deputy...

On top of 10-bit (and even 12-bit) color, both AVIF and HEIF support HDR (HDR10, DolbyVision, ...). With HDR displays becoming more common in phones and laptops this could be very interesting.

The buffer will not be 2x faster because the photos from the sensor still need to be compressed which takes time

@madcoda

4 жыл бұрын

the frame per second is actually dictated by the processing power (cpu), the size of the writing buffer will affect how many pictures you can take before it stops the burst. Half the file size could result in more than double the number of photos can take continuously

@boryshacker

4 жыл бұрын

@@marshlow17 no... because when you set your file format from raw to jpeg you will not fill your buffer as fast. The buffer contains stuff that need to be offloaded to the sd cards, not to be passed trough the cpu

@marshlow17

4 жыл бұрын

@@boryshacker okay ya got me

@Traumglanz

4 жыл бұрын

@@marshlow17 Does not matter. You can only delete the buffer once you have saved the compressed image on the SD card.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

2 жыл бұрын

@@madcoda It is, but more advanced compression requires more processing power. JPG is easy to compress, simply block off the entire image into a grid and store the positions and values for each of the average colors of the grid. It's something that's pretty quick and pretty power efficient. More modern technologies get better results in a smaller size by using more complicated algorithms. I remember decades ago hearing about JPG2000 and the wavelet technology they were using. Sure, it compressed things a bunch, but it used more processing power and it couldn't get off the ground fast enough to displace JPG and/or GIF in use. The other technologies have the same basic problem, they don't do anything well enough to justify abandoning JPG for it. Even PNG and TIFF which are probably the best supported alternatives don't see enough much use in the real world to threaten JPG's dominance. Given that the two big limitations on how many shots you can take with a camera are the storage requirements of the files and the battery necessary to do so, we're arguably moving further away from the alternatives being viable as optical viewfinders are being tossed by the wayside in favor of mirrorless designs.

The problem with HEVC is that some of the patent holders haven't even announced license pricing. The price of HEVC is likely to be much higher than 2.50 USD once they spring those patents on manufacturers and software developers. This is a major part of why HEVC has been so extremely slow to catch on. AV1/AVIF is very promising, and doesn't have the same level of patent uncertainty; plus the known patent holders have granted the broad public, everyone, an unlimited royalty-free license so long as they agree not to sue other users for any alleged patent infringement on the format. And on top of all that, AV1/AVIF produce better quality, smaller files. AVIF has been supported in Windows 10 natively since early this year.

@TheSengard

4 жыл бұрын

Sadly, av1 is still not supported by the most professional programs, while hevc already is.

@Rek-55

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheSengard HEVC is very heavy for CPU. I not see outstanding picture compare to jpeg....

@drewholmes9946

4 жыл бұрын

This is so true, I had to read up on this but it seems the way we should move forward. The patents for HEVC is a mess and honestly, we don't need a world in which we pay for file formats

@microcolonel

4 жыл бұрын

@@drewholmes9946 you always pay for the research that goes into these formats, but there are enough major corporations willing to buy and make available the patents on that research because it serves them. You pay for AV1 every time you use a Google, Microsoft, Qualcomm, or Cisco product. I agree that this sort of thing works better though, when it's free to manufacturers and supported by third parties who benefit from the proliferation of the format.

@microcolonel

4 жыл бұрын

@@Rek-55 it depends. For many types of image, the best JPEG encoders produce better results than average HEVC encoders. On average, however, good HEVC/HEIF implementations beat JPEG by about 40% on stills. Good AV1/AVIF encoders beat JPEG by a greater margin than HEIF in most stills, and occasionally match or lose to HEIF. All of these formats have weaknesses, and for each format, there exist encoders of varying quality.

You can save a ton of money too if you stay single; just saying.

@bobmorse5896

4 жыл бұрын

Not if you're careful.

@poetsguide

4 жыл бұрын

No need to be careful if your single hehe

@rumporridge1

4 жыл бұрын

Lol. Yea don’t think I wanna old and single.

@AstroLaVista

4 жыл бұрын

Not splitting the rent, mortgage and bills sounds more expensive to me.

@brunoeiler8192

4 жыл бұрын

Right in the point !!!! Agree 100% !!! Good one :-)))

Tony's next video: "HEIF is DEAD"

@justinoertel345

4 жыл бұрын

The Don DeLuxe lmao 😂

@PhilippeBOIS

4 жыл бұрын

.Avif in next Nikon body please

@jeffluo9591

4 жыл бұрын

That's very possible. I'm afraid the HEIF won't see the light of day if Google doesn't support it. Google Chrome is by far the most popular browser out there. And Google has its own solution for this. It's called WebP format which has already been adopted by many major websites. Besides, Google will never stop supporting the JPG format. In fact, Google has just improved JPG format by adopting a new algorithm called Guetzli to make JPG as good as HEIF.

@nsr150sp1

4 жыл бұрын

and then TIFF is dead

@mrrcassidy

4 жыл бұрын

No, no, the DNG is dead.

Great video Tony! Thanks for this. This is exciting!

This might be my favorite video of yours. Thank you for the education on JPEG and what is hopefully the future standard!

Waiting for Jared Polin to have a whinge about this aswell 😂

@3W14

4 жыл бұрын

Nate's Escape Jared doesn’t really know much about computer

@waltertomashefsky2682

4 жыл бұрын

Fro Shoots Raw. He doesn’t need no stinking HEIF.

@DarkPa1adin

4 жыл бұрын

Haha. He shoots raw but to what does he export to? Jpg. Can't think of anything else.

@feraudyh

4 жыл бұрын

He probably doesn't want to deal with the *HEIF ALLIANCE*

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

@@Sidowse , my developer of choice allows me to export to; ① 8-bit integer → JPEG JFIF, PNG, TIFF, & WebP ② 12-bit int → JPEG 2000 ③ 16-bit int → PNG & TIFF ④ 32-bit floating-point → OpenEXR, PFM, & TIFF Most other software developers can export to 8-bit PNG, and some to 16-bit PNG.

Until HEIC/HEIF becomes a web standard, or an otherwise dominant standard, I have been saving space for quite sometime now by using WebP to replace JPEG, PNG, & GIF, (but NOT to replace my 14-bit raw). WebP has no patent burdens, and is universally accepted, with the noted exception of Safari, (Mac OS, iOS), who is pushing the patent-encumbered HEIF/HEIC format. WebP is currently supported on my CPU, (a very old Phenom II), my current GPU, (nVidia GTX 760), my current OS, (Linux, specifically Ubuntu 18.04 LTS), and every one elses. It does lossy & lossless compression, it does animation, even with a mix of lossy & lossless frames, it does alpha transparencies, and it does not cost the camera manufacturers anything to implement it. HEIF/HEIC, on the other hand, is only supported on Mac OS/iOS, (and a few photo apps on windows, and modern HW). It comes at a cost, and more so for commercial use, (thus the lack of adoption by web-browsers, et al), requires heavy hardware processing, (which will come at a cost for camera makers), and will not be readable by everyone. WebP and HEIF/HEIC are both based on HEVC/H.265, (WebP taking advantage of VP8, an older, established standard). IF I were to ask camera makers to embrace a format, it may be AV1, by the Alliance for Open Media, a royalty free solution, for still & video, for commercial and non-commercial, including user-created content. It is being backed by the likes of Google, Netflix, Adobe, Mozilla, Microsoft, Samsung, Facebook, Amazon AMD, nVidia, Intel, ARM, ILM, (the creators of OpenEXR), AND APPLE, to name a few. Why would I go with Apple's patent-encumbered, proprietary solution, when I can go with Apple's own royalty-free, open solution?!? It has 30% better compression than HEVC & VP9, and built with hardware compression compatibility from the get go with a low computational footprint, (which means current cameras may simply need a firmware update, instead of waiting for new hardware to do the computing). But to push my camera maker towards an Apple only solution is ludicrous. That is what made PNG king in the first place; to replace the patent encumbered GIF, and give JPEG a run for its money. Because of PNG and all of its features (such as 16-bit integer channels, alpha transparency, et al), JPEG SPIFF, JPEG XR and JPEG2000 never took off, and we -and by, ‘we’, I mean, ‘you’- are still using the 1992 JPEG JFIF standard. I would rather take the free, open and ubiquitous WebP and AV1 standards. (When it comes to saving my 14-bit raw, I can go with the 16-bit integer PNG standard, or the OpenEXR 16-bit floating point, or 32-bit floating point standard).

@ankipruthi

4 жыл бұрын

OpenEXR is highly underrated by normal people. But we CGI folks here love it and i have often wondered why have camera companies not adapted it yet. 16-bit, lossless or lossy, whichever one prefers, along with multiple layers (it could give cameras ability to save a depth layer). Exr format is amazing.

@theronsan

4 жыл бұрын

Top Rock Photography ... as someone else here above said, Tony’s next video will be ”HEIF is DEAD” 😊

@AndrewSowerby

4 жыл бұрын

You said everything I just said in my comment, only you said it better (and 15 hours before I did ;)

@richardbriscoe8563

4 жыл бұрын

Top Rock Photography HTML5 is just now stomping out the last of Flash. It has been a really slow progression. Unless there is some sort of industry consortium which promotes the change I do not see it happening any time soon. Royalty fees that seem insignificant to consumers have been deal killers in the industry where they add up to millions of dollars. Apple, for example, killed FireWire with a $.25 royalty fee.

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

​@@richardbriscoe8563, it was pretty fast in some areas, as was ActiveX, (banking, education websites), when people using non-MS OS & browsers would tell them that the website would not work. Banks were the first to move to open standards, followed by universities and other schools. When Apple announced that they will not support Flash on the iPhone, that was when most others also abandoned it. Also, it was quite resource heavy, both in memory and CPU cycles, (which I believe is why Apple tossed it from iPhones).

Well spoken, captured, presented and edited. Love the way you cut your edits to perfection. Awesome quality channel

@Tony and Chelsea Northrop I'd like to **thank you Tony** for all that you do and all you have done for us. You always seem to be keeping us up to date, as well as watching out for us. I purchased your course years ago and have watched many shows since. **I appreciate all that you have taught me** Thank you, Tony Northrop. Bless you and your family.

JPEG2000 failed because of those patents.

@quikee9195

4 жыл бұрын

That's true, but id had a small success by being used as a format for cinema (and still is today). I'd rather have cameras start supporting JPEG2000 than HEIF as most of those patents are now expired. It's quite a capable format and there is a new variant standardised HTJPEG2000, which is also much faster (another reason with JPEG2000 that made it fail).

@AndrewSowerby

4 жыл бұрын

@@quikee9195 I was about to comment the same thing! I'll only add one thing - patents mostly block innovation, rather than protect it.

@TherconJair

4 жыл бұрын

@@AndrewSowerby That's more of a recent thing with changes to patent law increasing the time they are valid, adding the ability to make them transferrable etc.We don't want to get back to the issues of the "Bücherflut", when German authors "shat out" books like mad because they could only make money from when they turned in a manuscript. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree that patent law needs a good overhaul to promote innovation over patent hoarding, while at the same time making it possible for inventors to recouperate R&D costs.

@FlorianWendelborn

4 жыл бұрын

Considering that Apple has already switched completely, HEIF/HEVC won’t be able to "fail" anymore. Maybe, it won’t completely succeed in replacing H.264 and JPEG, but it will be supported for a long long time thanks to those trillions of pictures taken on iPhones.

@AndrewSowerby

4 жыл бұрын

@@FlorianWendelborn probably true, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Remember QuickTime?

Since I shoot in RAW and export in JPG when needed, need Lightroom and other processing software to get on board as well as major print companies. This will take a decade.

@subwarpspeed

4 жыл бұрын

Adobe (Lightroom) is on board since over a year. But print... that I don't know how well it will go.

@0ooTheMAXXoo0

4 жыл бұрын

I'd send a PNG or TIFF to a printer. A lossless JPEG (100%) still saves a lot of space if that is a concern... and, yes, JPEG is lossless at the highest quality.

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

@@0ooTheMAXXoo0 , No, it is not. It still looses colour data, (although, admittedly, not that important), unless 4:4:4 colour is also use, and still loses some detail due to the cosine quantization, (although, admittedly, not a relevant amount in the grand scheme).

Excellent presentation ... as always. Thanks & let's hope this gets serious traction... .

This its great, ty Tony & Chelsea Northrup.

This video is 2 times longer than it should be.

@WesPerry

4 жыл бұрын

Siva Bala by saving it in h.265 he was able to make it twice as long in the same amount of space. 😏

@lesliefranklin1870

4 жыл бұрын

@@WesPerry LOL!

@stephenarling1667

4 жыл бұрын

@R Mc Call Unhappily, true that.

@aussie8114

4 жыл бұрын

It’s called entertainment

@nycproductions8238

4 жыл бұрын

Aren't all their videos?

It's 2019! We must never support another closed image format especially when there is nothing revolutionary about the technology inside! Why do you think there is no web-browser support for it? AVIF is the true answer to the problem discussed in this video!

@quikee9195

4 жыл бұрын

I agree, but I think the better format is not AVIF (even though I would be fine with it too) but JPEG XL. Great thing about it is, that you can lossless transform a JPEG into JPEG XL and get 20% reduction in size, because same blocks that in JPEG are a subset of JPEG XL, however JPEG XL has a more efficient entropy coder. "Full" JPEG XL coding is on the level of HEIF or AVIF (maybe a bit worse), but it is more geared to achieving visually lossless and preserve detail as long as possible, which is what we want in photos. Compared to AVIF and HEIF, which are geared for video to drop details (because details in video aren't that visible anyway when playing at 30/60 fps), but generally preserve the image and not produce annoying artefacts when the bitrate is dropping. The problem is only JPEG XL will be ratified as a standard in January next year, so it's not a thing yet :(

@truemorpheus

4 жыл бұрын

Competition is good as long as we are talking about fully open, royalty free standards.

@gregb7353

4 жыл бұрын

This is the comment I was looking for. As pointed out in the video, HEVC has a lot of issues but what wasn't also covered is that it is very intensive to process compared to classic jpeg/H264/mp3. AVIF is the answer to all the issues and it basically everyone in the world but Apple who is the one of the few supporters of HVEC and the ONLY supporter of the ACC audio. If you think AVIF doesn't stand a chance, think again. Literally everyone outside of Apple is behind the format. They are basing it on the already very good VP9 and Theora codecs so it isn't like they are starting from scratch. In order to make a video codec you have to have a picture codec to store the starting frames. The encoder they already have is significantly better than HEIC and will only get better before release. Most importantly it should be much easier to encode than HVEC which requires much more processing. The feather in their cap is their audio codec Opus which has already dominated all applications. It doesn't have much consumer recognition as MP3/AAC/FLAC but you use it everyday. If you hear noise from your browser, video game, Skype, etc you are using Opus. It is hands down the best codec to use for any application and any use of older codecs is purely for historical purposes. It can produce double blind sonically transparent stereo audio at 32kbs compared to 128kps for AAC and 256kps for MP3. Even more impressive is that it can do things like human voice down to ~12kps and can dynamically switch for mixed content. It is lower latency than any other codec and requires less power and processing to encode than any other codec. It is widely being added to hardware since it has basically taken over.

Very thoughtful analysis. Thanks!

Makes sense thanks for the heads up Tony! I hope the manufacturers will get this!

Great video…and I loved your thank yous at the end…These engineers and scientists that make our lives better often go unnoticed…As for JPG I agree 100%…like other things that were created in the 90s like Internet Explorer…they were game changers for their time, but decades later it is time to move on. The 8-bit limitation of JPEG is a big one, I am sure at the time in ’92…16 million colours on a display must have seen like plenty enough for everyone, but needs change and technology moves forward. HEIF has 10 bit color with small file sizes…it is a win, win all around. I will take your advice and hit up my camera company on Twitter and see where that goes…Lastly, I have edited a couple of iPhone 11 HEIF photos in Lightroom and have noticed they are much more maleable then my JPG photos from my older iPhone 6s …A fantastic image format...

“Have you ever had your camera buffer fill up and you lose your frame rate?” Nope, I have a D500 ;)

@villageblunder4787

4 жыл бұрын

That's a terrible brag. It's like saying I bought a Porsche Boxster.

@attilahardy3448

4 жыл бұрын

No that would be saying you have a Sony A9 like I do lol

@lylestavast7652

4 жыл бұрын

@@villageblunder4787 whatever. I drove a Porsche in my boxers. Now, THAT is a brag...

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

I never had that either. I don't run & gun.

@andrescarrasco1248

4 жыл бұрын

@@attilahardy3448 like for that Sony A9

RAW used for processing photos. We dont need to use RAW just for viewing images on daily use. You have to understand what these image format are used for. Websites need compressed images to load your images fast at reasonable quality.

Excellent overview of the various compression technologies - past and present.

This video is like arguing with the AA battery format being outdated and inefficient. Sure it is. It’s also used everywhere and is universally available. So it won’t die.

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

Do you know how much money is being thrown away because camera manufacturers changed from the AA to proprietary Ni-MH or lithium batteries? Tell your camera manufacturer that you want them to adopt the new Apple IPhone battery! 😉😆😁😀😄

@SmallSpoonBrigade

2 жыл бұрын

Older Digital cameras used to either use AA batteries or come with holders for them.

@TabalugaDragon

Жыл бұрын

not the same thing. HEIC and AVIF formats are objectively better for almost everyone. Whereas almost all devices with lithium batteries have them glued in, or worse - made in unique format so you can't replace it once it dies. So you have to throw away THE WHOLE DEVICE just because the battery isn't good anymore. Which is why I avoid such computer mice, keyboards, gamepads etc like fire. I will buy AA and AAA battery devices as long as they exist.

How much money could be saved if all cameras used the same lens mount?

@recrystal

4 жыл бұрын

Sad story indeed... the recent migration to mirrorless system could have been a great opportunity to do so.

@gzarari

4 жыл бұрын

@@recrystal well sonywas the first and has a really bad mount, but nikon and canon have way better lens mounts

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

That is what the 4/3rds & MFT was supposed to do, as is the new L-mount, and the old, “Universal” mount, the T-Mount. Hmm.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

2 жыл бұрын

@@recrystal Yes and ironically, the switch to mirrorless makes advanced image compression formats even less practical as they all require more processing power than JPG does. JPG succeeded in large part because it's incredibly simple, just divide the image up into segments, average the pixels in the segment and record that value and position. You can then combine all the segments with the same color into a list with just the extra positions increasing space. If you've got an image with a few colors, even a gigantic image might not take up much space. There are other ways of compressing things like wavelets that can provide more image quality with less space in some cases, but they pretty much all use more processing power and more electricity. One of the issues with using a common mount is that it can constrain the sensor designs to make nice with it. EF-S can exist only on an APS-C and smaller sensor due to larger sensors requiring a larger mirror, which would interfere with the mirror. You can cheat that a bit by going mirrorless, but then you run into potential issues with being able to see the filter on some wider lenses.

Hi Tony , your videos are interesting. Your knowledge , detail and how you explain various subject's is thorough and outstanding .

Fantastic and SORELY needed video!

Great video Tony. If there was an option to keep high dynamic range then it's time to use HEIF as an actual raw format. I'm not familiar with the gory details of the container format, but we it may need to be extended for vendor specific information. It's going to be up to the phone manufacturers, social media tech giants, and Sony that must complete the innovation.

You could just get to to point in 1 minute instead you're rambling about more then 15 minutes, you know what that cost me?

@growtradelearn1079

4 жыл бұрын

are you a simpleton? if you want 1 min then google it. KZread creators need to surpass 10min to make money.

@txm100

4 жыл бұрын

@@growtradelearn1079 If a youtuber artificially bloats up a video to 10 minutes without adding something to it they are a bullshitter and not content creator.

@observerfx212

4 жыл бұрын

Go cry in your safe space

Actually, 256 brightness variations is just the Adobe limit, which is based on their flawed HSV/HSB computational colorspace model that dates back to 1978. It assumes (wrongly) that if any one RGB component is at maximum value, that this is equivalent to white. Apps using the HLS computational color space can not only get 512 brightness variations out of the same source data, but changes to brightness, saturation, and hue are properly linked together as trade-offs instead of being isolated from each other mathematically.

Wow thanks for this video. I was always wondering what those file types were

Imma shout "WHAT THE HEIC" everytime I accidentally shoot in HEIC instead of RAW

Its good for the environment too! More efficiency means fewer memory cards, less cloud storage infrustructure and power consumption, battery saving etc etc. While it makes little diffierence individually, collectively its massive.

Thanks for the informative videos! One thing... I believe the image compression along with file creation is mostly after buffering ... that buffers are emptied as files are created by firmware, then written to cards. If you could comment on that sometime would be great to hear if my understanding there needs updating.

I doubt there will be double the buffering speed, because it's not the size of the jpgs causing the slow-down but huge raw data in the queue (=available ram) waiting to be processed to whatever format.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

2 жыл бұрын

One of the things about JPGs is that they're better suited to modern computers than they were originally. If you've got the entire file loaded into RAM, which is more likely now than in the past, you can process multiple cells at the same time. With other technologies, that may or may not be the case.

This is just a one sided argument.

@hungrydavo

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I'd like to hear from jpg. It's probably got a family to support and he's being constantly trying to be made redundant. How will he feed his kids?!?

1:59 this transition is so trippy. It took me 10 seconds.

Thanks for the great info. I never looked at it like this before.

Ps and Lr may be able to read heif now, you still cannot save/export to .heif! Are they dragging their heals on support? My lowly Galaxy A70 can write heif, it's just a shame the camera app is a bit pants!

It's not just Software development. It is hardware as well! A hardware encoder is necessary for the device in order use less power, due increased processing requirements we also can go with newer IC manufacturing technique in order to use higher density battery (less power). For a larger camera a single nextgen Tesla cell could be best of bought worlds :) I'm more in to AVIF / AV1 camp cause it is "royalty free" There are plenty of storage solutions a portable hard drive is by far the cheapest solution, but also super delicate.

@TabalugaDragon

Жыл бұрын

which is why I prefer SSDs. They can last almost forever because they mostly get damaged by writing, not reading. They do need to be powered from time to time as unpowered cells slowly get damaged. But other than that they can be stored for many times longer than HDDs.

Richard Hendricks’ middle out compression is finally catching on. Now all we need is Erlich Bachmann to come back and get his 10% share cashed in. 😆

Absolutely brilliant video. Stunningly informative. Your channel is the bomb. You and your wife contribute SO much to this field. Love you both. 👍 👍 👍

that was quite an eye-opener!

The Canon 1DX Mark III will use heif. And probably every Canon camera that follows.

Tony does great work, but please ease off the audio compression. I couldn’t take more than 5 minutes of you yelling at me. I don’t know if it’s capture, or post, but just a little limiting at the end should be enough to get the level where it needs to be.

Wow! You are incredibly knowledgeable. Fantastic video. Great idea, I want this new format in my GH5s. Thanks for sharing

H265 video is not supported in premiere or even windows 10 until we purchase an extension. Support for this format needs a widespread agreement. I've got a security camera producing H265 files which could never be attached into a longer video than 1min clips. So frustrating for now

Thanks very much! You are the most simple yet authentic and to the point Photography Channel on this planet.

@madpoet2404

3 жыл бұрын

Great post. Unfortunately instagram still uses JPG.....as do a lot of print houses to my knowledge.

VP9 is free and its practically the same as HEVC Anyway, the limiting factor right now is that most computer/phone/camera don't have hardware level HEVC encoder/decoder and its too demanding for any CPU. We really need specialized hardware everywhere to make this whole thing (transition to HEVC) possible.

@toprockphotography8669

4 жыл бұрын

…And that is why Apple & Google are both backing AV1. HEIF/HEIC is already dead.

Well done analysis, thanks!

I first bumped into HEIC last year, so I'm probably behind the times already. BUT, as I've had to deal with them coming from my other people (I'm a communications director for a school district, so many people send me things in many formats), I always have to convert them to jpg to use in quite a lot of programs. Does InDesign place HEIC? I'm not sure about that one, but I know my web-based programs don't. Can't use them on the website I manage ... can't import them to web-based design programs. Every time I get a HEIC I groan because it's another step of conversion to use the darn thing anywhere.

Capture one does not support HEIF export. So, I'll stick to the good old jpg for now

@WesPerry

4 жыл бұрын

the commenter I messaged them last year about that. Might have to bug them again...

@ipadista

4 жыл бұрын

This was mostly about using HEIF in the camera for size and writing speed, the imaging tools export features change over time, and if this one cant export HEIF right now, that will most likely change over time, and in the meantime, you get faster processing in the camera. And when that feature is added you can re-export in HEIF

@dirragon1

4 жыл бұрын

Neither does Lightroom, so nothing changes for me. Would love a better compression system/format, but until the post editing software allows export in the decided upon file type, meh.

JPEG doesn’t mess with buffer, raw does

@whereismylife

4 жыл бұрын

Dumb. Unless you’re taking about the D4, D5 etc. Expensive cameras can have bottomless buffers in Jpg only mode and I think +raw too? I dunno. I don’t have 6k for a hobby.

@VaughnFelixMusic

4 жыл бұрын

whereismylife Jpeg only, not raw

Wow Tony! What happened? New style? Your transition at 2:00 is absolutely sick! You killed it! Great job

Thanks for the info. Maybe you could provide links to the top 5 camera makers in this section so that we could easily send them on requesting the format changes. I’m new to all of this and I’ve already forgotten the names of the new formats. I’ll watch it again and take notes. By the way, I just bought your book. I love it.

I am more annoyed by 8-bit sRGB then by file sizes.

I am somehow confused, I shoot RAW and store RAW, why should I move to shoot HEIF and Store HEIF? My customer needs either high resolution images for printing/further postproduction or images for use on the web, visual presentations etc... TIFF is perfect for the first one and jpeg for the second, so far as I am aware no web browser supports HEIF, nor Microsoft office, fair enough Apple does and I believe the latest Android platforms do. I get that there is an advantage in file size and can see the reasoning for using HEIF in regards to storage, however until everyone can seamlessly use it at the consumer end, Websites and MS office documents, without the use of an extra App/converter the use of HEIF is a no starter. Professional photographers, except maybe for photojournalists and some sport, event photographers, shoots in RAW for obvious reasons, and stores images in the RAW format for the same reason alongside high resolution edited images, all other common Joe Blocks don’t care as long as the process is seamless, which unfortunately isn’t at present with the exception of the latest smartphones, hobbists photographers fall in either of the two categories, the more serious and passionate about it the more likely to use a professional photographer approach. Is HEIF better than jpeg? Undoubtedly yes, however not a feasible solution as yet, it isn’t an open platform, and most end users can’t open the file. Alongside the @...camera manufacturers there should be, and I would suggest even before @safari @firefox @chrome @Microsoft etc... only when the latter adopts the format HEIF can have a chance, and more importantly a wide spread purpose, not just storage.

@cmdr.shepard

4 жыл бұрын

You should not use hevc for quality. It is only meant for saving space at high compression. I recommend you to look at openEXR. It is currently the best image format for storing images. It's the only thing used in hollywood and film industry. It supports 16 bit and 32 bit. People usually use at 16 but you can use 32 as well. It supports uncompressed and compressed methods. I would recommend uncompressed. It's better than TIFF and DPX. I would also suggest you look at ACES, a color management system. When you use it in an openEXR file your images are basically future proof, forever. You don't need it if you store raw files but if you will store edited versions, this is the best way to do it. These are mainly for high end video work but it is encouraged to work this way with photos as well, as it is simply the perfect way to work with all images.

This is an amazing, informative video about jpegs. TY Tony!

Thank you for the informative video sir! Wow!

I'll wait for the open source solution. Until then png is fine for me.

iPhone captures are terrible. How about Apple allowing users control the noise reduction and sharpening?

@dhruvang5369

4 жыл бұрын

So shoot raw on the iPhone.

Couldn't this update be done via firmware as well? Maybe even a purchased firmware so the mfgr doesn't just have to eat the cost. $5 to update your photo and video codecs to HEIF and HEVC? I'd be down to buy that from Panasonic in a heartbeat.

07:58 Unless I am totally mistaken, the sensor records what is initially encoded into a raw file, so the buffer is filling up with raw files. As each image is saved in the case of non-raw format, it is converted and then written to storage. Assuming the CPU can keep up, this will not double your buffer in any way, it will take slightly longer until the buffer is full, since most modern cameras can record images much faster than they can be stored even in low res jpeg. So if your buffer is 50 images, by the time you have snapped image 50, perhaps the camera has been able to save 4 images, instead of 2, so your "effective" buffer, or the number of photos you could take at the rated speed only change from 52 to 54. This is by no means meant as an exact number, but I have tried several times on various cameras, to first format the card. Then hold the shutter down on the fastest continuous mode taking photos of a stopwatch, stopping as it slows down, then check on the photos which were the last one before the slowdown happened. I have so far seen very minimal differences between shooting raw and jpg regardless of resolution or compression. Not that the write times don't change, but because regardless of what file format you save, the high-speed shutter is soo much faster in filling the buffer, than it can be cleared by removing saved photos. Here I am talking about cameras that shoot over 10 fps, For really slow cameras, the difference between how much is filled in the buffer vs how much is cleared might be smaller. But since you talked about Canons upcoming 1x Mk 3, and used your argument about that one, I guess you were not referring to 3fps devices, Where it might actually almost double the buffer in the sense of how many shots you can snap before the slowdown. Otherwise, I totally agree with you that this is a much better format, but your statement that the buffer will be doubled is just plain wrong, and you should know better than getting basic tech statements wrong.

@Lucentlens

2 жыл бұрын

This comment needs to be highlighted. 👍🏽

I don't think it's a good idea to use a closed file format, while there are alternatives out there. But the market haven't decided yet what the successor of JPEG and h264 will be. I hope for an open source standard like av1.

@Camrographer

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. Apple needs to give that file format out. Or someone needs to.

@unbroken1010

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm confused if I have Android I can't make use of Apple anyway and I don't see them making this file Source available for everybody

@chidorirasenganz

4 жыл бұрын

SMH it’s not apples format y’all

@unbroken1010

4 жыл бұрын

@@chidorirasenganz they were the first to really push it & Apply it. That said until cameras offer us and then so we can get mobile apps like Snap seed or Photoshop Express to read it what you is that to us.. I already have trouble with getting mobile apps to read Fuji let alone this

@chidorirasenganz

4 жыл бұрын

unbroken1010 Yeah but it’s not like it’s apples proprietary software. Plus it can be read by just about any decent program now.

Who's the sponsor of this video?

Thanks Tony. I learned a lot.

Thank you, Tony! Been shooting with my Mavic2 pro in raw and H264, My research last year prompted me to shy away from H265 because of what I understood was the need for MASSIVE computing power to process video. Can you clarify this for us? Thanks for your timely info. Great info as always.

Time to convert your old playboy bunny JPG:s to the HEF:ner standard.

We don't need another proprietary format.

Is it fast to convert to those new formats? My 1300D is slower on JPEG than RAW probably because of the processing time. It fits 4 pictures in the buffer on RAW and only 2 on large JPEG. I wonder how the new formats will will be handled in entry-level cameras.

Can post processing software not be adapted instead of the camera? If you shoot in RAW and them edit in the editing software and then save to HEIF rather than JPG? It must be easier for the software to be updated to utilise this format?

Can't we just retire it? Must there be violence and killing? Please stop this madness!

What the HEIC!!!

@namedkenn

4 жыл бұрын

SpaghettiPaparazzi I would pay for this T-shirt 🤣

Thanks to the knowledge, it leaves us photographers in the business ❤️🙏🏻

Interesting. Thanks Tony!

Don't forget to thank Lenna/Lena Söderberg, too.

Bought NAS for all my photos 10 years ago; good decision.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

2 жыл бұрын

I use a mirrored ZFS array for my photos. A couple times a month,I run a scrub over the entire array and any errors that are found get fixed automatically. The worst thing about large collections of files isn't the storage space, it's ensuring that they're backed up and that you know about bitrot while you're able to recover from it. ZFS solves that as long as you've got a clean copy of the data on one of the disks in the array, it can always be copied back to correct the errors.

@seb_gibbs

2 жыл бұрын

@@SmallSpoonBrigade Using mirrored drives on a Synology box. SHR formatted with 'data protection', so hoping that protects against bitrot, but unsure. Also have 'Enable data checksum for advanced data integrity' enabled.

You are so awesome to credit people for their work. You are a real stand up guy.

Question for Tony - how do you see the adoption of HEIF going ? Beside Apple using it in iPhones it seems to not really be widely adopted. I did some testing with HDR images captures in HEIF using HDR PQ mode on my Canon camera. Images I great on HDR capable displays, but having many issues with apps when it comes time to view or edit those images. For this hind of HDR technology to be adopted so much must be right - hardware, software, standards, etc.

Pretty sure once you start using 10bit colour the file size won’t be half that of the 8bit image :)

You look like a young Vincent Price now

That’s why when I import photos (JPEG) to my iPhone with iCloud photos turned on it takes 3 times longer to upload than when I take them with that iPhone in HEIF

I want the most information in each picture file. As you’ve said, I’ll thank myself in the future. I’ll gladly accept larger files, and the added expense. So, raw or HEIF?

Can't believe this 1year ago u said jpg files was great my head is spinning tony 🤯

@michaels8597

4 жыл бұрын

talk about jumping back and forth over the fence.....

@smaakjeks

4 жыл бұрын

1) It was 2 years ago that he made that video. 2) The point of RAW vs JPG is to shoot in lossy format to save space. He didn't say it HAS to be JPG. In fact, he's had a bone to pick with JPG as a compressed lossy picture format for a long time.

@michaels8597

4 жыл бұрын

@@smaakjeks Here we go with the lies and folks that talk out the side on their necks..Hey look what year this was...duhhhhhhhhhh.....Are JPGs really worse? Don't believe these photography myths (Picture This! Podcast) Tony & Chelsea Northrup 185K views 3 months ago

@smaakjeks

4 жыл бұрын

@@michaels8597 "Here we go with the lies" I'm not lying. Why would I bother lying? Either something is real or it isn't. "Raw vs JPG: Image Quality vs Speed, when to use each" was made Nov 4th 2017. Two years ago. "Hey look what year this was...duhhhhhhhhhh" Are you going to accuse OP for lying, since they said it was a year ago, then? Or only me? Oh, and in the video you're talking about Tony references the video I was talking about. So, if you watched the video you brought up, you could have easily understood which video I was referencing from the start. *And* the video you reference specifically talks about the processing in cam vs computer software. Not so much benefits of JPG as such. It's almost like you're going out of your way to find any recent video about JPG that the Northrups made, in order to call me a liar. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

@michaels8597

4 жыл бұрын

weeeeeeee,one side,wee,onto the next....one minute making definite statements,like about pro shooter Steve M,then here comes the retraction..4/3 is dead..DSLRs are dead...on and on and on.

I'm sorry, Tony, but this was way over the top. "The sky is falling!".

I may be wrong (naturally), but if I shoot in RAW, then isn't it more important to incorporate HEIC into the RAW processing software than in the camera? Shouldn't I be looking for that upgrade in Capture One, rather than waiting for a new camera to come out with HEIF capability? Thanks.

Could you do a video defining the pros and cons between HEIF, TIFF, PNG?

Storing your work in an encumbered format is a colossally bad idea.

Tony new CEO of pied piper confirmed.

I was so cheezed about HIEF HAVC or whatever when it came out that every time I saw or saved those files I just converted it to a jpg because it wasn’t working on any of my older software and I’m dumb. Now that I’m running pretty much all new software I’m wondering why I’m losing so much space. Not anymore

Hi Tony... My Samsung S10Plus has the option to shoot in HEIF. I will be experimenting with this option over the next few days. Thanks for this! 👍🙌

Wish PowerPoint and other programs accepted those formats but alas they do not. Until all of the software gets on board, its useless to me.

Tony looks like colonel Sanders lol

@james-r

4 жыл бұрын

File lickin' good

@Itdoesntmakesense2me

4 жыл бұрын

I think he is looking like that South American Dog whisperer... 🤣

@mdturnerinoz

4 жыл бұрын

I think he looks more like a quintessential jazz musician would look! :0)

Question: there will be retro-compatibility? I mean, my new Z6 could be one day receive a firmware update to implement this format?

I am curious how this would affect those that get images printed, like wedding photographers.