I've trained freestyle and had recreational matchups with a few Greco roman wrestler, i can't talk about Muay thai i've never faced one, but the greco roman wrestlers were fucking explosive in the clinch incredidly strong the strongest i've been up against.

@ioko1299

6 жыл бұрын

I am greco roman wrestler myself and i appreciate what you've said not a lot of people respect the sport as a whole especially greco

@SwordTune

5 жыл бұрын

The thing is that what he said glossed over a lot of muay Thai. It is as much of a tradition and way of being as Greco, and if you don't know much about it, don't insult it. After all, someone can say Greco Roman is nothing but running at someone and picking them up, the same way the clinch is just a couple knees and elbows.

@kmosou7391

3 жыл бұрын

@@SwordTune yeah but in greco you basically fight the whole time clinching, there is also par terre but the fight takes place mostly in the clinch. On the other hand in muay thai you mostly fight striking from the feet without necessarily engage in the clinch, i mean there are legends such as buakaw or saenchai who mastered it but i feel like the greco clinch is just on another level as it trains you to control and dominate your opponent from head to waist starting from a standing position.

@adamoleoni2272

2 жыл бұрын

@@kmosou7391 Of course grappling from a grappling art Is Better. The point Is that thai clinch Is much more complex AND strikes change the clinching game. If you want to grapple, greco Is superior, that Is a given. But you should not think thai clinch Is not great, or that you only have to worry about a couple of knees or elbows.

The reason why Jon Jones said the Muay Thai clinch is "a wrestling no no" is because of the grip. Look at his hands as he explains. In Greco Roman, that's the first thing thing they tell you. You do not clinch someone like that because it is very easy to escape from that grip. Greco Roman favors the "S-Grip" which is used for almost everything, even when they warm up doing drills. The Gut Wrench, a Suplex, Selto's, waist locks, they all favor the "S-Grip" or the "Gable Grip" if it's Freestyle. One of the takedown's that becomes available from the Muay Thai clinch is the "waste lock go behind" or "the waist lock underhook" Both of which can be used to set up or switch right into a suplex. He could also use the Hip Toss or the Duck Under into a High Dive.

@MemoTraining

7 жыл бұрын

That's true. I've wrestled with national Greco champs and the clinch is insane compared to a guy who just trains freestyle. However obviously they sometimes aren't as good at leg attacks.

@MemoTraining

7 жыл бұрын

But I guess depends on the wrestler.

@pikkon899

7 жыл бұрын

MemoTraining You are not allowed to attack the legs in Greco-Roman. Even on the ground, Greco-Roman wrestlers have to find a way to pin the opponent without grabbing the legs. This is also why their grip and clinches are so powerful and why they are the masters of the suplex. There are a lot of suplexes in Greco-Roman that are done right from the ground.

@MemoTraining

7 жыл бұрын

Pikkon89 YEs thanks, I know I'm a Greco guy myself. That's why I said obviously they sometimes aren't good at leg attacks talking about when they do MMA.

@user-jn4sp4qn6r

7 жыл бұрын

Pikkon89

Yes, ONE of the fundamental positions for the Thai clinch is as Jones described, but there is a lot more to it than that. There seems to be some misinformation in the mma world, among some people, about pure Muay Thai. I understand that Greco Roman may be more detailed cos it focuses purely on wrestling, but train clinch in Thailand and you'll learn a lot of different techniques that include Greco Roman style throws takedowns. I'm surprised Jones would show such bias on the topic.

@Momsspaghetti777

6 жыл бұрын

Most of those throws are purely kicks to the leg and the like (not in greco) Greco has hundreds of slams and takedowns

@scremblodgor

6 жыл бұрын

Such is the difference between a mixed martial artist who has a basic understanding of virtually all techinques, and a true, legitimate specialist, ala Darren Till.

@Momsspaghetti777

6 жыл бұрын

Last Gasps elaborate

@RankedShooter

6 жыл бұрын

bluemrgeniuss He was basically speaking on what works more for him.

@treroney4720

6 жыл бұрын

Last Gasps Jacere Souza as well

he is so thoughtful man, its scary

@jacobsl3499

4 жыл бұрын

Don´t know if its scary, but it adds to explain why he´s so good.

@synysterallen

3 жыл бұрын

I hope this is sarcasm lol.... that wasnt articulate at all and completely false, muay thai has thousands of years of history and culture behind it... to say greco is a way of life and a style and muay thai is not is very very stupid thing to say. He then simplified the entire are of muay thai to elbows and knees we have sweeps in muay thai as well more than 40

@JudoMateo

3 жыл бұрын

@@synysterallen “thousands of years” can you cite a source? Given the first Thai capital of Sukothai was built in 1238 I imagine you’re being extremely hyperbolic and stating your unfounded opinions rather than referring to any actual verifiable evidence.

Great interview, great answer

Thai clinch, since the last century only, is what it is because of the rules set. Remember, you can't hip throw in Muay Thai, you can't hook with the leg to make him fall back, you can't sweep using the bottom of the foot, you can't lift the opponent, you can't go for the legs (yes even with knees allowed it's possible with proper timing), etc. If you remove those rules, the Muay Thai clinch will quickly face the need for adjustments and won't look like anything like that anymore. As fact, Muay Boran clinch used to be completely different, similar to those greco/senegalese/etc. wrestling styles. Rules are the only thing that distinguish styles.

Yup. That pretty much sums it up.

@SwordTune

5 жыл бұрын

He definitely doesn't go over the nuances of muay Thai. He's not wrong, neither is he wholly correct.

The thing about pure Muay Thai clinch vs a pure wrestling clinch is that in wrestling clinches you never train striking. Look at wrestling clinches, in a lot of situations, your head is bent low, you are often in a position to eat knees. I remember one time when I was sparring, my training partner spun around and I clinched him. His body was bent down low, almost like how wrestling clinches often end up. My Muay Thai coach broke us up and warned him that he would have been in "knee central" had it been a real fight. It would have. Honestly, in a no rules fight, a Muay Thai fighter would have a significant advantage over a pure wrestling clincher because a wrestler does not train against strikes in the clinch and some of his techniques can be neutralized by Muay Thai's own grappling, however, not an unbeatable advantage. Like Jon said, a wrestler has a far greater arsenal of grappling moves and throws. Although a Muay Thai fighter will be trained well in some throws and sweeps, the wrestler will have a better training in these techniques, as well, as some new ones to bring to the table. Instead of talking about style vs style here, we should talk about what each style can learn from the other to form the ultimate clinch game.

@BrainsVsNuts

7 жыл бұрын

THEY ARE NOT COMPARING WRESTLING CLINCH AND MUAY THAI CLINCH. They are comparing greco-roman wrestling clinch and muay thai clinch, and greco does not allow lower body take downs

@BrainsVsNuts

7 жыл бұрын

But even freestyle wrestling could probably beat muay thai in a clinch battle regardless of knees being allowed. When going for most leg attacks, you head is in the outside where "knee central" would never touch you. The sparring partner is definitely not an actual wrestler, probably watched to many ufc fights.

@mech12341

6 жыл бұрын

The head is always up in Greco, or you will be front headlocked easily. There are some short guys with strong necks who score easily giving someone their head, but the head needs to stay up in Greco, especially on Underhooks.

@kallepikku4991

5 жыл бұрын

Ben F, clearly you have no idea of different styles of wrestling. In Greco-Roman wrestling, no-one will lower their head down, as leg attacks and other lower-body attacks are not allowed to begin with. Your partner must have been a Freestyle wrestler, or most likely, as BrainsVsNuts pointed out, not a wrestler at all.

@boxingworks you make a great point... but, unlike this small minute clip, Jones usually talks about how he is always improving his Muay Thai. I would've loved this fight to have come down to Greco vs. Muay Thai... C'est la vie.

@anderson12ization man handle and get submitted or man handle and beat him ?

i agree. greco produces the toughest men.

old school muay thai had throws and slams so its clinch was different than how they practice the style today...MT got nerfed by modern athletic commissions because they were only used to officiating boxing

@_penguin_9946

Ай бұрын

Muay Thai in general lacks in ground fighting ability however

@BURGAWMMA

Ай бұрын

@@_penguin_9946 yeah but you don't really need to fight much on the ground you can just stall for a no penalty stand up... MMA refs are STUPID

So that time he threw Bonnar to the mat with a Muay Thai clinch throw doesn't count as a takedown from the Muay Thai clinch? I think Mr. Jones is tellin' fibs. I think the Thai clinch has more threats than just elbows and knees. Not to knock on Greco Roman Wrestling but the last time I checked you can't strike in that sport. I believe both styles are equal as far as whose using it knows how to use it.

In wrestling if you try to use a thai clinch you can be thrown easily thats why he said that. By the way when Jones threw Bonnar he had and inside collar tie up like used in the clinch with only his right hand. With his left arm he had an overhook so it was still wrestling because in wrestling you try to control their head using a single collar grip on the neck. With a greco roman clinch you can press a guy up against the fence and strike in mma.

@cartagenabryant23

7 жыл бұрын

James Sowers no I'm a former wrestler and a Thai boxer and did Muay Thai first and when I wrestled I used Muay Thai sweeps and dumps to take the guy down and in the Muay Thai clinch your elbows are one the guys chest so he can go for a good duble leg or body lock

Muay Thai fighters will not use the clinch unless the opponent is softened up and they will often kneel first clinch and knee again . Thai fighters use throws similar to Greco wrestling.

Single leg double leg all good but greco works every single time no matter who you are if you know the techiniques well.

@ciscoittech hes too tall for anderson to control in a thai clinch,and attempt to achieve the clinch would get anderson thrown for sure.

Damn Right Bros about Greco but What would you say if you were acquainted with Catch as Catch wrestling Clinch and Takedowns ? In Catch you have numerous takedowns from Clinch .

@elumiomerk4013

4 жыл бұрын

Say how different is catch wrestling from greco-roman?

Also Muay Thai is a tradition also. Traditional Muay Thai has techniques in it that far surpass just the run of the mill techniques and strikes you see on tv, I think people should know that.

@ahmadal-juffri9179

6 жыл бұрын

oneforthenayshun learn some wrestling history, you will be supprised

Jon Jones knows to little to speak about the Muay Thai clinch, the muay thai clinch got so many more techniques than just knees and elbows.

@thomasmei3443

6 жыл бұрын

i believe if muay thai clinchs with a wrestler, wrestler wins. However, if you clinch knees right you can easily finish an opponent standing up or to create additional openings for more strikes to land.

@vailimaconnoisseur6538

5 жыл бұрын

Jon Jones has used the muay thai clinch in several world title fights pretty sure he knows more about it than you

@corderiusnorton143

3 жыл бұрын

Guys relax I am the living Muay Thai clinch. 😌

@qstogg7955

3 жыл бұрын

It’s Jone Jones the UFC goat says so it is so

@crunkalac

2 жыл бұрын

@@vailimaconnoisseur6538 I was going to say. One of the best Muay Thai users I've seen in MMA.

Do any experience greco guys in here no some of the throws you can use against the thai clinch? if so please message me. I'm dying to find out what 40 throws Jones is talking about?

@-YiY-

7 жыл бұрын

call up hendo

@rawbbingmysellph7464

7 жыл бұрын

i would die to know that as well brother.... i'm holding my breath from NOW

@markymarco2570

6 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/dK2otaeYkdbSg6Q.html

@GabeRamos1

6 жыл бұрын

Snap down to set up an elbow pass, to either a collar tie throw by or body lock with a step around. By that point you can send them sailing for 5 any way you’d like

@kallepikku4991

5 жыл бұрын

Go to any Greco-Roman wrestling class to try-out your question and you'll feel the answer. Just saying... :P

That's very true. They are both just one technique for each style. What I'm saying to add on to that is there is takedowns for each style in their own clinches. The effectiveness of each clinch depends on the person's clinch knowledge. I just disagree with Jon when he said the Thai clinch is a wrestling "No,no." because you can wrestle a takedown in the Thai clinch. In Greco striking is not allowed. Is say the Thai clinch is more versatile in mma than the Greco clinch cuz of the striking aspect

Couture use Greco clinch for throw punch, usefull.

who was he fighting against ?

@rye-bread5236

5 жыл бұрын

Maurício Rua UFC 128

It’s interesting to see this cuz I never realized I’m using Greco Roman wrestling skills in my clinch until now especially with the grips and framing interesting

Bones has it good if they are on the outside hes in his range if they are on the inside they are in his range and if they are in-between his elbows are so freakin long his still in his range!

@GribMurder soon they will have to fight, about april 2012 if both still ufc camp

Greatest of all time

@anderson12ization where u goin

Well - Jon Jones is right in one aspect: in a Thai clinch, you have no "washer" - i.e. no arm to keep a tight lock. In a Greco clinch, if it is around the head, you have an arm, always, which allows for far more control. The reason many fighters get kneed from the Thai clinch is because they allow their heads to be pulled down. This actually shouldn't happen as easily as it does, being the head is actually loose. That being said, a Thai clinch can be a bad position to be in!

@ancientdarkness3102

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure of what you're talking about but apparently you don't know the Thai clinch very well , just like JJ in the video. Thai clinch is all about standing straight with your neck and find better general and mostly arm positioning to throw knees without getting timed and dumped, to land or to defend sneaky elbows, and getting the opponent as exhausted as you can while trying to stay as relaxed as you can. It's almost a martial art on its own and has many more positions and techniques than most MMA people know.

It is, but the Clinch for Muay Thai is just one technique where as the clinch for Greco Roman is all there is in Greco.

@ancientdarkness3102

Жыл бұрын

That's where most people get it wrong. Thai clinch is almost a martial art on its own, it's definitely not just "one technique " It's all about arm positioning and balance and leg trips and sneaky elbows when expecting a knee, or a devastating knee while expecting an elbow or a quick dump when expecting something else

@DADRB0B55

11 ай бұрын

Muay Thai clinch covers like 80% of what is in mma, punches, knees, elbows & some trips wrestling is just wrestling on its own it’s like boxing or Taekwondo they can only do 1 thing

Forget greco for a second, and think of freestyle someone gets the muay thai clinch on freestyle guy the wrestlers attacks are increased tenfold, but never underestimate the thai clinch only takes a couple knees to your ribs to fuck you up. All a wrestler has to do though is smother then smash.

I loveyou from thailand

Great points from Jones

I train Muay Thai and folkstyle wrestling and I agree.

The hell are you talking about? A single collar tie is effective in wrestling because you have one hand to defend your legs, if both your hand are on the head what is going to stop your opponent from getting to your legs? Nothing.

I don't know about that I do both and the tai clintch can be devistating .

@K1Kamikaze

Жыл бұрын

They actually work together nicely since in Greco u also use a very upright posture, and u can chain all the Thai elbows, knees and sweeps with Greco underhook/overhook and takedowns

...and that is WHY he can land them spinning elbows!

💪🏻💪🏻

Apples to oranges, different sports, rules & goals

The thing is, with your head being down so low, one knee could and probably WOULD put you unconscious.

@SwordTune

5 жыл бұрын

And has, in other fights

@rye-bread5236

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jawshuah *cough* Ben askren

@TheWolfangst

3 жыл бұрын

In greco you would not put your head low

@antondelacruz9362

3 жыл бұрын

It is very rare to see someones head actually pulled low in thai boxing.

This video is made before he started telling people what they wanted to hear. Before he stopped being an athlete, and started to being a promoter.

@kmosou7391

3 жыл бұрын

Hungry jones is the scariest guy to ever compete

I think it depends on who's Muay Thai clinch it is, I doubt he would love to be in Anderson's clinch

@ancientdarkness3102

4 жыл бұрын

Or in dejdamrong's clinch

Also, and also, too.

@sylhetypolasab agreed

Greco Roman owns Muay Thai Clinch

Jon Jones is arguably one of the greatest to ever enter the octagon, regardless of his personal misadventures. For anyone in this comment section to question his expertise on this topic is laughable. Maybe if you achieve a quarter of his success you can tell me all about it.

@paulbadman8509

5 жыл бұрын

Spin & Fly Guy he is a cheat.

@SwordTune

5 жыл бұрын

No one is questioning his skill or knowledge, but he does lack appreciation for the skill and knowledge of others who spend their whole lives in the clinch range. No matter who you are, you don't get to just ignore skills like that. The best muay thai fighters did it from the age they could walk, it's second nature. That is a whole style and tradition, one that is more complex and dangerous and two knees and elbows.

@tedbunkerss1952

5 жыл бұрын

@@SwordTune What Jon said is based on fact that you dont want to be taken down in mma more than you dont want to be hitten

@SwordTune

5 жыл бұрын

@@tedbunkerss1952 Okay, you're missing the point of what I said but that's fine.

@s-saad7401

5 жыл бұрын

Spin & Fly Guy "he's the greatest fighter therefore he knows everything about martial arts , so whatever he says must be true". There's so much that's logically fallacious with your statement.

greek roman wrestling hands down can beat muay thai 97% of the time

they arent all throws there Take-Downs fool double leg,single legs, duck unders etc.

@-YiY-

7 жыл бұрын

greco = no leg ,dumbass

@thechamp7513

6 жыл бұрын

lol casual

@toad33332 going with the fact that if Sonnen can out wrestle the shit out of Silva,Jones would man handle him, plus his ground and pound is probs the best around, thats where Im going

tell this to rich franklin.

@bombastikderteutone6858

3 жыл бұрын

? Rich franklin had neither muay thai or greco knowledge - he was a mathematics teacher who was good at mathematics

@jamiegee123

3 жыл бұрын

@@bombastikderteutone6858 Very true, Rich was too busy working out the cos,sin &tan of silvas knees

@kmosou7391

3 жыл бұрын

@@bombastikderteutone6858 respect rich tho, he was an amazing fighter.

@anderson12ization mate im not sayin theres no chance jones would win but jones wouldnt win lol you forget and im not making excuses but silva had 3 broken ribs during his fight with sonnen

@toad33332 lol Jones has better BJJ than sonnen,better ground and pound that sonnen,bigger than sonnen and more explosive.Sonnen out wrestled Silva,but yh he got submitted,but would Jones get submitted,I doubt it

Jones vs Silva. Start them off from the clinch lulz.

@fitzrapid Thank you for telling me and youtube what we already now. when he comes back it wil be Rashad. not davis or hendo get you facts right

jones vs sonnen,jones all the way.sonnen only knows how to take down the opponents and silvas wrestling was really bad thats why he got dominated.but jones is a wrestler with outstanding standup and really good jiujitsu.so jones all the way.

Greco Roman is the only martial art that's ever worked in the history of humanity in any context in every time period ever. FACT.

@cartagenabryant23

7 жыл бұрын

ChamorruWarrior not even judo boxing and Muay Thai do to

@treroney4720

6 жыл бұрын

ChamorruWarrior Grecko Roman and judo are my favorite grappling styles. Folkstyle is really realient on athleticism/explosiveness

@themilkycow4050

6 жыл бұрын

How about Muay Boran?

@megasuperlexa2

6 жыл бұрын

Except that it is neither Greco nor Roman. This is traditional french wrestling for fun and fairies, that was renamed to satisfy raising interest in Olympic games in 19 century

@osamabad3597

6 жыл бұрын

What is this "fact" based on?

JESUS CHRIST

@shogun123442 he would man handle Silva

#BonesNose hahaha

spoken like a true muay thai neophyte

@synysterallen

3 жыл бұрын

muay thai is just elbows and knees though my man greco is an entire style!!! what a moron Jon is sometimes lmao

🧂 her comes the boom 💥 Ra bumpy Kai Kudo Judo 👊🏻 🤼🤼‍♂️🤼‍♀️ Dutch Hema Arnis Ita Escrimo

@darkythecrazyninja5228

8 ай бұрын

All of us are are you a fan now because all I'm getting is air Sneaking in elite tate flow Tribal mirror counter

JONES brother,you 100% right !

ok just soo everyone knows...i train at the WAT. i see jon jones training all the time. his muay thai is ....OK. its not all that. he gets away alot honestly because of his physical attributes. so dont think too much into his info on this stuff

@rawbbingmysellph7464

7 жыл бұрын

thank you!

@treroney4720

6 жыл бұрын

D. Richards Yep Jon is definitely a Farang

@therock809

5 жыл бұрын

D. Richards I train there to but I never saw jones as of yet I’ve seen Shane McMahon of course Phil nurse

@skiddadleskidoodle4585

5 ай бұрын

Why didn't you ask him to hard spar you in muay thai, lets see how "OK" his muay thai really is, since you seem to have alot to say.