I wanted to react to this and dive deeper into what Jon is saying here. This is reflected throughout the industry and there are FEW artists/producers/etc that are in the industry and actually happy and thriving. Its sad that such a talented artist disappears for 6 years because of this. This happens more than we think. This means all of those artists that "Fell Off" might actually not be falling off! They are just stuck in bad deals and can't release more music without losing money or something similar.

@davidhochstadt2884

Ай бұрын

This is the reality of the industry. Now all of us need to learn what we can in every area like you said Kyle and start skill stacking as much as possible! I push every one of my artists to stay independent, don’t sign deals.

@TananJess

Ай бұрын

That's the thing, even when writing the thing of saying people saying your name, but what happens and what's it do to you when you're still a no name?, there's nothing left to do, then what the hell do you do, just move on and look crazy telling people you have written something.

@TananJess

Ай бұрын

Hell yeah most people are still working bullshit jobs and can't even get time or help to work on music, and that doesn't help either not knowing enough about the terminology or the technical language or layout of music, I write and I know what sounds good.

@jadenkoller4662

11 күн бұрын

Thank you for informing us tho Kyle, it’s good for new people to see and have a visual representation of it! Thank you!

As a producer/artist that lives on ramen noodles, I felt that

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

Broooo 😫😫😫

@Phosfit

Ай бұрын

You mean “in”

@skizzyskitzo

Ай бұрын

Word me too

@DerekJohn

Ай бұрын

I’ll check you out!

@DerekJohn

Ай бұрын

@@skizzyskitzoand also you! Lol

Shout out producers with dying fires and 1000's of crazy beats that will never see the light of day because we had to get real jobs and just make beats now as a hobby.

@TananJess

Ай бұрын

I share beats all the time created by others I made a channel just to share the beats people make or they're taking the time to show people how to construct them so they get credit and are recognized for the work they do. Their job and skillet is underrated.

@xXMegaWeaponXx

20 күн бұрын

This also applies to every other form of art. Gate keepers have power and power corrupts.

@a7xSkateboarding

12 күн бұрын

Personally I just make beats for myself these days, I'll only upload a handful. Working a normal job then coming home to work on music into the wee hours, just to get f*cked? Nah I'm good, it takes away the fun and the reason you started making music in the first place. Honestly it's just in God's name at this point. Who knows, maybe we'll make it at 40 lol. If not, who cares?

Artists in every field have been screwed forever. Only solution is to get legal smart before you start

@kidzn

Ай бұрын

Even with a perfect contract if your sales start to slip you’ll be screwed over

@sexwargeneral

Ай бұрын

@@kidzni disagree, if you are “Legally Smart”. You can figure out a deal that says You’ll have to pay me x amount of money to make music every year for the next 5 years, and if it goes well, you could renew the contract type shit. You just gotta know who you dealing with. You dont recite poetry to someone who is not a poet.

@thatsme4747

Ай бұрын

Or go independent

@misberave

14 күн бұрын

Real. Its like that in every business only the hard survive

I didn’t think John’s interview could become more valuable and you made this more valuable . Thanks for everything Kyle . Great music and great knowledge

@YaedeProd

Ай бұрын

Jon* but understandable

This is just ridiculous. The labels are robbing both the producers and artists

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

Producers are literally getting robbed lol

please keep this video up forever.. this is sad and really eye opening and needs to be up to watch to raise awareness of how this stuff actually goes. realizing what the mainstream industry actually is, may change so many mindsets towards it.

As a 19 year old at Berklee trying to get this off the ground while living off the salad bar at the caf this was so eerie omg

@GlenOxley

22 күн бұрын

i graduated from berklee in 2020 lol i felt that shit too buddy we in this together

this is a trap so many artists fall into. these companies and managers take advantage of naivete and artists current situations to lock them into some shit theyll never profit from 99% of the time. glad ur showing more in depth what these deals mean as some people still dont know how they REALLY work

I worked in a massive $20m studio for a while, which meant I worked pretty close with all the big labels, and always told every artist who was independent and talking like they want to sign to not ever sign to a label. I unfortunately witnessed a handful of artists who were on a fast rise get their careers wiped away just before they were really famous enough to support the growth without the resources of a label. All for one petty reason or another. You can't quit on the label, but they can drop you like nothing, and whatever that "sign on bonus" was, they're still going to be making you pay back

@brandonhilton2730

Ай бұрын

Well no, few comments on this bro, an “advance” can be “recouped” but it cannot be “repoed” a label can & will make back the money from your advance until you make money BUT they can never take back the physical money they “give” you, that’s why it’s always told “Negotiate for as big as an advance as you can” if you buy a house, a car, they cannot call the bank & get that repossessed, those are now yours, the label can never touch them! Few months ago I spoke with a band, who never really did anything after signing, but they still live in the houses their advance paid for

@brandonhilton2730

Ай бұрын

Secondly, here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?

@brandonhilton2730

Ай бұрын

Moral of the story, making it in music is a shot in the dark, percentage wise you have a better chance of making it signed, then you do independent & that’s just how it is! Play your cards how you want, but if there’s an 80% chance I’ll land on black, versus a 0.7% chance I’ll land on red, you better bet I’m betting black!! You feel me? Look, here’s the thing! Nobody is “truly” 100% independent, I’ve actually never heard of an artist who is, wether your signed or not, you still may have publishing deals, marketing deals, album deals, single deals that workaround labels even if your not on an artist contract, & I’ll let you in on a secret 99% of “independent” artists (I say that loosely cause of what I just mentioned) who are successful, are successful because they gained notoriety, finances, & education on the industry WHILE they were signed before their contract ended You have a much better chance being successful independently after you’ve already been signed & your contract is up, then being successful independently without ever working with a label

It’s crazy to think one of my favorite artists and one so damn influential, whose sound literally blew my mind the first time I heard it and influenced YEARS of my life (and tons of other artists) is getting chewed up like this. He’s big but he should be HUGE, labels should be kissing his feet lol.

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

I know bro this is how i felt.

Watched the Jon interview earlier today - was pumped to hear your input. This, for me… was probably one of the best videos I’ve watched of yours. Sincere and conversational. You’re growing man… it’s special to see you develop musically and professionally. I really appreciate your contributions to the music production space. 👊🏽 You’re a gift Kyle. God bless you.

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

Thank you glad you enjoyed my take

That's why I'm gonna solely make it by myself and be not expecting help from anyone. If other people can make it, then I can make it. Wish y'all all the best, all love♥️

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

You can do it!

@jeffvibesmusic

Ай бұрын

@@kylebeats2 thank you Kyle! Really appreciate that 🖤🙏🏻

Him being done and just trusting and receiving the blessings is the ultimate outcome for him. Wish it was like that for everyone, but most people won't be so "lucky". Good for him sharing everything.

Great freaking breakdown and reaction.You killed the articulation and examples. what a serious conversation to be had.

Kyle I love the insight from you and the jon bellion interview . I’ve always known some insight but this opened my eyes

So sad, Jon was one of my favorite artist/producer growing up! Always felt he represented true creativity and talent. So glad to to see him speak up!

@teoigi3247

Ай бұрын

His All Time Low song helped me through my most difficult time in my life😢

@ightoaks

Ай бұрын

​@@teoigi3247 likewise!!! 🙏🫶

im so glad i came across this video. really opened my eyes onto how important it is to be independent now

I've been saying this for years. Independent artist is the only sustainable way forward as far as I can see.

@GiDS222

Ай бұрын

it's so true. either that or small labels but once things get too big for their own good, it's a wash

As much as social media has it's cons, it's finally given artists a chance to succeed without labels. I'm grateful that I live in this era and that I'm able to do what I do without the need for record deal and seeing this and Jons interview has already backed up how I feel about this industry.

@bontempo1271

22 күн бұрын

but how are they getting paid ? The money from streaming is also robbery

@openboundariesofficial

22 күн бұрын

@bontempo1271 stream royalties, subscriptions, ad breaks, brand deals to name a few. I agree though, the amount of views and streams you have to get to earn anything even slightly worthwhile is still a lot, but if a label is only giving you roughly 7 points, then the amount you need becomes insane.

@bontempo1271

22 күн бұрын

@@openboundariesofficial so yea, it's not really succeeding, it's scraping what you can in alternative ways, ways that the majority will not succeed with. It's so disgusting whats going on and somehow artists must unite to circumvent the industry machine, which is really just 4 big labels and the non-proftiable streaming platforms

@openboundariesofficial

21 күн бұрын

@bontempo1271 yeah I feel artists and creatives have had to scrape by for way too long. And I'd rather not have to sit and promote some random phone game I dont like or play just to earn some money 🤦‍♂️

@bontempo1271

16 күн бұрын

@@openboundariesofficial It's a craft that takes years to master and of course - talent. It's now taken for granted

Bellion has always been straight forward. Dude is a legend. Never changes

I remember watching a video of Russ and he was talking about getting a loan from the bank and using that for an album etc is what he tends to do and gave his reasons for it. It was a very interesting point he was making because a “deal” from the label is just fronting you money to pay back, and the banks you can get a better interest loan along with owning your music. His point definitely makes sense if your someone who has at least a little fan base. But it makes me think now doing something like taking a loan from the bank and then tapping into Direct To Consumer can pay that loan off faster than it would going thru the label. Shits very interesting and the industry is a wicked game.

Would like to hear a more in depth conversation between you and Curtiss King on this topic. Dope video btw 🤝🏽

This was an eye opener for sure 💯

This is one of the reasons i decided to go solo as a music producer work with few artists but mostly work on my craft on spotify beats remixes covers till i got used to work alone than work with artists as an independent music producer

Kyle, you oughtta have Lecrae on a podcast. He owns reach records and has been a steady artist for 20 years. I think he has some good insight on these subjects

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

I love lecrae

This is exactly why we created our private community for musicians! To show them the real contracts, have entertainment lawyers teach them, have platinum producers mentor them and to protect each other from the side of the industry that just wants to use and abuse artists.

@realerichazael

Ай бұрын

😃

@brandonhilton2730

Ай бұрын

I’d love to know more about the community!

*Streaming is dying...DTC (Direct to Consumer) is the wave now. IYKYK*

Love this exposure of the industry forreal so shout outs to Kyle, Jon and everyone else involved bc it's up to us to redefine the business side of all of this

19:13 ty for supporting artists. I def won’t be bashing on anyone for “falling off.”

yo kyle welcome back

real talk, great video. Thanks bruh

"If that is the case - what does my record contract look like" - oh man - mind blowing 😮

his music was so good to i still listen to his music everyday. Hoping for new music.

Great insight from Jon and additional points from you Kyle!

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

The last part was so emotional....

We all think that we're smart enough to make some smart investments, for future gains but surviving in the in between is where it breaks you down.

I actually wrote a whole research paper in college dealing with the topic of labor exploitation in entertainment and creative industries. You're trapped in an endless loop of, "I'm going to take this bad deal because it's going to further my career." And the culture around these industries is designed that way. They give you the tiniest amount and gaslight you into thinking that "this is what it takes to make it." and "I should be so grateful to have this gig." It's top tier endgame capitalism tbh. It's like this in every industry and line of work except with the music industry it's capitalism on steroids.

The content that we needed.

Kyle, is your main job video-making? What aspect of your brand brings in the most capital

Jon is insanely talented. Whenever I come across a (the making of) video, regardless of me seeing them so many times, will sit down and watch it all the way through. Dude is beyond musically gifted.

Jon Bellion was super influential to my production style in the late 2010s. Really made me change my entire perspective about how I approach music

Reaction videos are the best ❤❤

*Ryan Leslie* is also a great producer too

The more artists become aware of the corruption in the industry, the more they will stay independent. And the more successful independent artists there are, the less assets labels will have. You said in the video that there has to be some sort of solution but I think this IS the solution. Spreading awareness of the corruption. Labels need artists to be successful. But it's been proven that artists don't need labels.

@brandonhilton2730

Ай бұрын

here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?

Love your reaction! The world needs to hear and see these stories more!!! The life of celebrities aren’t won’t it seems! Ultimately, we must find our security in Christ! I also have getting into writing music and trying to produce! Would you be willing to collaborate?

I heard one of the creators of spawn in an interview said that if something didn’t feel right he would ask, “if you were me and you were offered this deal would you take it”? And if they even had a moment of hesitation he would decline immediately.

Corporate interests really took advantage of the industry at a perfect time. It has forever been "but a dream" to create music for a living, and until the internet came around, it was impossible to put laws and/or unions in place that protected the creatives, due to the scarcity/aspirational nature of being an industry musician. Actors were able to make slightly more progress with organizations such as Sag-Aftra, but I would attribute that to there being more working actors than there are working musicians. These companies have since grown so big that they buy/bully their way into advantageous positions, be it "standard splits", algorithm favorability with third-party platforms, or the entirety of their record deal structures that are designed to have total control over the artist. What we need (and this applies to many non-creative industries as well) is reform, and with the ambiguity of music creation in today's age, definitions, terms, and revised industry standards in regards to crediting one another is an absolute must. Additionally, there needs to be legislation in place that sets limitations on the abuse of leverage, specifically in reference to label/artist contracts. Contracts and splits that are commonly deemed "predatory" towards artists and writers are SO bad that we have been duped into thinking that "good" or "standard" contracts are any better. They are not. I am thankful that people like Kyle and JB are speaking up and educating, because the only way you can tell if something is sh*t is by knowing what sh*t looks like beforehand, or by tasting it for yourself.

This is one of the best videos on the platform

🔥great interview

As a producer/artist doing everything for free right now, investing money with no returns, I feel this. This early I just gotta capitalize on my passion and keep going I guess

Havent watched this full video yet but I just thought about Jon Bellion a few weeks ago, wondering what he's up to, if he still makin music etc. Used to watch all his bts videos in the studio, such an inspirational guy with deep passion for his craft. So this will be interesting

I'm literally eating Ramen noodles right now.

I think it’s crazy how labels try to convince you that they can get you out there and get people to listen to you, just for you to end up paying for the marketing and ending up with the same amount of an audience as you started

I'm making a serious stab at rising up in the music world.... but it's so hard to connect with people making music that are serious about it and treat it as a business. It seems too many of the "music art" spaces are just hobbysts who feel like thinking of money is antithetical to doing art.....

only thing I got from this is I’m not the only one who fidgets w my aperture light lol

Jon Bellion is one of my biggest inspiration in music, so damn creative! Can't believe artists have to go through this trap.

As a producer artist i approve this message

What I don't understand is why are artist using these labels? What do you need from a label today?

I’m so glad you skipped all jankos butted in religious crap, like this is what I was hoping the interview would be and was so excited it was 2 whole hours long but then literally like an hour of it was janko vaguely repsonding then preaching for a few minutes, i was generally skipping past any time he spoke by the time I was halfway through it

As someone who know’s nothing about music. Where would a good place to start making music?

We've been saying this for years! Finally people are seeing the truth

Jon has been my favourite artist for many years and always will be

Thanks for linking the original video, leach

@matthewritchieofficial

25 күн бұрын

search bar is located at the top of the screen right in the middle. hope this helps

@summitupman995

22 күн бұрын

@@matthewritchieofficial And what am I searching lmao

As an ordinary working man, I can apply this problem to every job in the world. We need to be more independant and start taxing the rich!!

Jon Bellion aint get enough recognition, absolutely amazing producer gon go down as one of the best hands down.

It's really not that complicated... there are soooo many great artists and producers out there. If somebody is willing to work for those 3 points, they will get the job. Hit songs and big artists come and go all the time.

hes inspired alot of people, him, logic and grvty inspired alot of my early work

my mom knew ab bellion when he was knew glad i kinda grew up listening to one of the goats

great vid

I don't understand the part at 15:30 to 16:00, like the math, it feels like we skipped a bit. Basically you get a 5k advance + 5% of the song's royalties, so why isn't it simply recouping the 5k+ i assume interest, and then you're making profit? like i just don't understand why it suddenly jumped at 15:40 to that number of streams in order to recoup the 5k... a small video to explain how the record deals math usually works and generally things to look out for would be appreciated bigtime!

I'm going around trying to add my input on things I find that.. I feel compelled to throw about and roll out .

Maybe I’m missing something but why sign to a label in 2024 or beyond? They’ll promote your music for you? With social media and streaming platforms I don’t think I would ever want to sign to a label and give up the control over my art.

@kylebeats2

Ай бұрын

its hard to turn down $100,000 or $1,000,000 when its in your face!

@diamondgd1050

Ай бұрын

It’s harder to get exposure by self releases nowadays if you don’t already have a somewhat stable fanbase, especially with a lot of artists around the world it’s pretty hard to stand out

@DerekJohn

Ай бұрын

There are a few reasons you would sign to a label, fronted capital is one, notoriety/“official-ness” is another. There’s a kid that him, I, and another kid were the biggest highschool rappers when we were in highschool. This guy got signed by a label when the whole “unique rapper” trend was going on with the labels and he is Asian. He instantly had industry connections at his finger tips, he got to go to top tier professional studios essentially for free, they fronted him like 50k or something like that and suddenly he’s not just “dude making tracks in his basement” now he’s a local legend who is a professional so when he comes to town people are bidding for his performance instead of him doing pay for play or free shows. THESE DAYS (unless you’re lucky like that) you’re better to stay independent and work a deal with a distributor or work up your own distribution. That’s because these days you have to ALREADY be “trendy” enough to have enough inflow to even get their attention that you might as well ride that on your own unless you just hate doing everything and want it all outsourced and you don’t want to find all the people to outsource the different jobs to.

@DJMixxwell

Ай бұрын

Capital upfront to know you can “survive” off just music is one. Another is that labels have doors that can get opened alot quicker than doing it yourself if even possible by yourself really. I can see some reasons that are beneficial but at the end of the day… Creating that leverage is what will get the best deal from labels and that’s where it seems to be the best. Just my opinion

Between Jons interview and Russ interview on Flagrant it’s all there.

Curtis King says direct to consumer. Hes pasionate about this and its what we should all be doing

Smoked some w* ed got high, listen to jon bellion, drive to nashville/kansas city to make music. Mannnn good times i miss him

Independent artists are going to win this time round

Now I'm starting to understand why we lost Avicii 😭

a reckoning is coming

It's crazy how there aren't baseline laws for profit sharing in the US. This is the reason people who actually do the work get screwed in every single industry by mfs who don't work.

I already know labels are bad, so should people stick to a distributor? What should you do if someone is in a situation like this?

Now i see what james blake meant by him going solo

Film industry is also based on points. Directors will have a set amount of points (not that many) while the studio execs get the majority

Merch sales not even owning your own brand basically is what its like

Jon is a legend

You had me at alcohal

dude John is the goat. His journey makes so much sense when you find out how the industry works.

Artists and producers need to unionize. they're the root of all the money in the music industry. labels are nothing without them

Bro thats keeping people held down, thats some loan shark type stuff.

The writer not seeing the streaming money is sheer insanity.

19:00 "when you found all this out, were you in the middle of a tour?" "yeah, I was in the middle of a breakdown"

What can we do :/

I don't know why people don't speak out about music business, while the young producers needs guidance. Everyone keeps on saying make good beats until you get placement or upload on beatstars

which label is jon signed to tho cause surely not every label is like this

The Points thing seems like an American thing, I'll be damned if I ever let anyone reduce my percentage & my effort down to something so Trivial.

Jon Bellion is my favorite producer and artist of all time

My favorite artist ever

Damn I fuckin love Jon Bellion, I gotta watch this whole podcast!

nice vid

They have systems of distribution to the masses. And now we have the same potential access. The labels own everything.