Way back in the 80’s i was an Electronic Technician working on industrial automation equipment for the Postal Service. The Flats Sorter Machine (large envelopes) used proximity sensors to tell the computer where the metal finger that pushes each flat is. When replacing the sensor, the adjustment I used was to put a quarter coin on top of it as my gap gauge. When you pulled out the sensor in episode 1 there was rust particles on it. I bet there are still rust particle on the crank teeth which confuses the sensor. When you pulled out the sensor two turns, the sensor needed a larger mass(the actual crank teeth) to trip it. Just my 2 cents. I love your channel. Keep up the good work. Lou

@Garth2011

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, looked to me like the sensor was a magnet to metal filings from the soil ! Could be the wheel has a build up of crud on it. That construction company needs a maintenance plan.

@n3lee

4 жыл бұрын

Some chryslers used windows in the flywheel to do crank position; sometimes if the 'starter cover' (or the cover on the bottom of the flywheel) weren't put back on you'd get the same sort of problem.

Sometimes the parts cannon is required when the customer doesn't do their preventable maintenance!! Great videos Ivan

I was thinking the closer the better. I learned something on this one.

@trevorvanbremen4718

4 жыл бұрын

I was 'taught' that a Hall Effect sensor like this (i.e. 3 wire) needs about 0.040 gap (1mm). And a VR sensor (2 wire) needs a gap around 0.010 (0.25mm) Generally speaking, a Hall Effect sensor doesn't like too much heat due to the electronics included inside while a VR sensor doesn't care as much. However, the associated cabling on a VR sensor is quite fussy about externally induced noise due to the much smaller signal (i.e. Use SHIELDED cable with the shield properly grounded at one end)

Boy, the crankshaft position sensor was very picky! It now is going to be " Ivan's Industral Equipment Repair". Who wants to work on cars! Lol!

"At least the mud is frozen"... Heh heh heh! Bringing back a lot of memories.... Absolutely true though, once the mud freezes, it's easier to work in some ways....

@throttlebottle5906

4 жыл бұрын

especially when it's knee deep......

@patrickmorrissey2271

4 жыл бұрын

@@throttlebottle5906 Haha! Yes. I had commented in another one of Ivan's Construction Site videos... One of my "old favorites" (not) was the site where the gooey mud stuck to your boots... so you're trying to walk around, in greasy mud, and each boot weighs about 25 pounds.... Good times! Not really. To be honest, I personally was never in "knee deep" mud.... Waist deep snow, sure, but that's another story for another day...

I like the "post mortem" segment of your diagnosis of the components to confirm that you "fixed it"' I like confirmation.

there is a reason that sensor has flats on two sides of the threads. with the flywheel tooth in the center of the hole using calipers or depth mics check the distance from the top of the hole to the tooth. check the length of the flat on the sensor subtract the depth plus the gap and that is the stick out on the flat to be measured. most of those sensors are to have 2.5 mm gap or around .080. those powered sensors are much more sensitive and can pic up the next tooth if its too close.

You are correct about the deep cycle marine battery. It is basically used to run accessories and electronic equipment on boats. It will deliver power until it is completely discharged without damage. Thus the name. However, it does not do well as a starter battery. Boats usually have both a starter battery and a deep cycle battery and are equipped with a battery switch that can switch from one to the other. Start with battery one (starter battery) run on both to charge then switch to battery two (deep cycle) when the engine is off to power equipment. When ready to start the engine switch back to battery one.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting to know about the dual batteries!

Thanks for bringing us along Ivan, learned a few things about crank position sensors. Glad you powered through and came to a satisfying conclusion.

Awesome Ivan that was an exciting video, plenty of plot twists with the deep cycle battery, the starter and the critical proximity of that sensor, great work and thank you for sharing.

Nice work once again Ivan. Thank you buddy for sharing your valuable knowledge and experience with us it's very much appreciated. Looking forward to the next one!!!

Oh. MAN! I could feel your frustration. You should win an award for extreme patience, Ivan!

Wow...Way to stick with it. I was feeling so bad for you and you somehow managed not being discouraged. Great teaching. Craig

That was a great diagnosis Ivan. Both enjoyable to watch and informative. Thanks!

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words, John!

Good job, Ivan, fulfilling every jot and tittle of the law!

Wow, what a learning curve. We're all learning a lot though your work.

Great video, I learn a lot from your videos I always thought the closer the better on that crankshaft position sensor. Keep up the good work

excellent video , to close pulls down signal it pays to have a scope and know ur basics , I learned something and use ur scantool to ur benefit !! keep the videos coming ivan

I felt guilty watching this video while i was sitting in a warm chair with a hot cup of coffee. Another great video brother.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Haha glad you enjoyed it :)

I think you made the right call on the new sensor. Can't trust the old one. Also, they must have cranked the snot out of it to make those metal shavings that were all over the old sensor. I wonder what the ring gear looks like...

@lustfulvengance

4 жыл бұрын

Fancy seeing you here!

@anthonydefreitas6006

4 жыл бұрын

So if the ring gear is damaged, Ivan needs someone to CNC cut him a new one. Humm? Who do we know that could undertake such a task?

Well after you get that starter replaced and get it to crank normally. I still say you should try and clean out the hole that the crank sensor fits in. Plus figure out where all the shavings came from. Maybe get a strong magnet that fits into the hole and stick it in several times as you crank it. Could be that the whole wheel the sensor gets it reading from is just solid / filled with shavings.

Knowledge, perseverance, ingenuity and perhaps a touch of polar bear blood and my friend Ivan scores again. Well done sir...well done.

The most patient man in the world!

Interesting bonus footage. Unintentional experimentation. I enjoyed that. I would have thought the same as you, close = better. The waveforms coupled with the scan tool really was a great teaching tool.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah Cuba, that was crazy! Glad I actually took it for a test instead of just shipping it haha. Had enough hours invested in that lift :)

Outstanding job ivan

Nice job and sticking to it!

Good work man!👍 I've learnt some thing new today yeahhh.

You learned so much...soon you’ll be a scissor lift expert!

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Learn something new on every diag and repair!

Picoscope really a revolution change in engine repair.

another thing to watch for on slow cranking which is unusual but i have seen it is the hydraulic pump trying to build pressure. usually a stuck valve or a wire to wire short to one of the function sollenoids. one time was a pump shaft bearing failure.

That scan tool is a very handy piece of kit.

Nicely done ✔

You have incredible patience.

hey Ivan great video. i learned a lot from u about crank sensors thanks a lot friend.

Looking forward to part 3!

Wow, what a huge change with the new starter ! I had an older 1989 GM truck starter that did just that too. Replaced it and it spun the engine 3 times faster with the same battery. After so many cycles, those starter windings begin to fail. Maybe you can talk the construction personnel into a maintenance plan ! Likely the engine oil is black as coal and the original oil filter is still on it.

@fieldsofomagh

4 жыл бұрын

Starter on diesel engine needs to be lively to ignite. Starters go bad with time especially when the engine keeps cutting out.

Deep cycle instead of Starting/Lights/Ignition(SLI)? Battery buyer. "I got a good deal on this battery!" Ya right! Vibration and abuse REQUIRES a parts cannon with these machines! The Pico sure helped a lot. The adjustment for the new sensor made all the difference for the high idle. There must be a spec somewhere for that adjustment. Well, you done good!

Good diag . Alwys learning something new.

Great fix

Really like your idea for bench testing the CKP.

Sensor hysteresis! That is, you need to bench test not only the switching distance, but the distance change required between the “on” and “off” states to pass or fail a suspect sensor. The bench test was flawed because you need a piece of metal approximating the width of one flywheel tooth, else you artificially oversaturate the sensor under test.

hello love your videos. in most companys i have worked at machine have a complete overhaul time. i mean if jlg sent one of their repair team ,they would replace almost everything.

Wow, i was kinda right that sensor was bad all the way. Very nice diagnosis!! Parts cannon required lol!! It sounds like it's finicky getting it work right. Wow

Wow. That was interesting especially the bonus footage. For sure, check your work before sending it off.

Proper setting for the sensors on Diesel engines was 1/2- 3/4 turn back from top of tooth on ring gear. Make sure tooth is in the center of the hole when setting.

I go by the Temp/Age rule. I avoid being outdoors working on projects when the mercury is riding lower than my age... Burr. That starter sounds super spanked...

@charlesbosworth2807

4 жыл бұрын

Comment above: at least the mud is froze!

@notajp

4 жыл бұрын

Well, I’m 64, soooooo......

In the future Double check extra loads on the engine possibly creating the slow crank, especially a hydraulic valve partially open. A very common issue on heavy equipment. Be careful you don’t get pinched or run over on equipment repairs!

The experience alone is worth what you will get paid. Gaining knowledge about these devices can be used in the future.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

Well done

thanks for this one

Wow didn't realize air gap made that much of a difference on inductive pickups good find

Wow. A really frustrating session I'm sure. I'm not sure of the spacing of the teeth on the flywheel used to activate the sensor. But maybe when you have it too close the sensor can actually sense two (or more) teeth at the same time. Therefore making the detected frequency (rpm) lower or at worst always activated. I had the same thoughts when you were testing it with the bottle opener on the bench. I thought "there is no way the teeth are that wide so it's probably not an accurate test". Bringing the sensor out more would make it less sensitive and only able to pick up the one tooth nearest to the sensor (accurate rpm). I wonder if, in the future, you can insert the sensor quite a ways out not working) and then adjust it in until you get a good waveform and then just a bit more in for good measure. Considering all the after market sensors and field variables that method would be much better than relying on their blanket statement to just turn it out one turn. Very good video. I learned a lot. Thanks Ivan.

Well done. .

Ivan, Ivan, Ivan, why didn't you get that thing out from its parking space when you got it started? That would have stopped some of the huffing and puffing we hear in the cold. The too small a gap will cause magnetic saturation of the inductive pick-up. Did you get starter current reading of the proper working unit for reference? Did you inform the owner about proper maintenance, battery and the cold, and parking it where it can be serviced?

Yes those construction workers will crank those machine's all day long.That gap on the sensor was very interesting. Well done.

@throttlebottle5906

4 жыл бұрын

when caulking or hanging siding it probably gets started/moved every 3 to 5 minutes, short run times and a million starts :)

Bonus footage for the win!

great video plenty of parts this time BILL N LINY Stay safe and healthy

Check the gain setting in the analyzer for the throttle actuator

Awesome .......Awesome .......Awesome .......Awesome .......Awesome .......Awesome ....... Can we get 4 college credits for watching this?......you da man.....I really did learn....

Ivan there is a reason they use deep cycle battery's in man lifts. If the engine quits they have back up power from the battery, a regular automotive battery wont have the reserve capacity

@pingpong9656

Жыл бұрын

That makes sense... although with a scissor lift could always climb down the side!

Ivan, Great video, diagnosis,and fix - thank you! In the bonus footage you showed the bad signal on the scope at one turn out but you never showed the good signal at two turns. Have you been able to find a factory spec on the gap? God bless Paul BTW at the beginning of the video I thought you were covering your mouth due to corona.

I applaud your persistence. The next video will be flywheel replacement!

@graymodeler

4 жыл бұрын

Maybe those filings were from the flywheel/starter gear abuse.

Good Vid

Nice troubleshooting.I was getting frustrated as well.Nothing worse than defective new parts, as it would appear that starter was.

You didn't even swear did you. I would have done on the fucking think !!!! Well done

Voltage drop! Could Ivan have a bad connection somewheres? Or maybe a spanked starter. I’m really surprised they had a marine battery connected to it. Smart move checking your work. Keep up the good work Ivan

You look great in PPE

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you :)

" PARTS CANNON TIME " BWAHAHAHAHAHAH, LMFAO. GOOD ONE SIR IVAN BUT YOU HAD NO OTHER CHOICE SIR.

Batteries are not 100% charged on the shelf- most places will charge for free when you buy. Change oil & filter, full synthetic. Crazy glue the engine compartment doors shut.

Good video, I was thinking with the debris stuck to the censer, at one turn i think you said was about 1/8". Would that cause more debris to gather than if you went out just short of max distance? Sorry when i posted this i had not watched the entire video. My bad. Excellent work i love you videos.

I think that it was a two part problem. The metal filings on the sensor probably came from the starter hopefully. This caused the sensor to stop working. and yes the multiple start attempts killed the starter. After reading some of the other comments I think Lou A hit the nail on the head.

so on this application the sensor is actually looking at the ring gear on the flywheel......and the debris stuck to sensor likely wear from starter teeth/ring gear.

To me it points to the starter pinion being shot and contaminating the sensor by the metal filings. Could be some valve problem making the pump loading the engine during crank and so killing the starter (both the pinion and the metal shaving formation, as well as electrically developing internal shorts)...

What a nightmare you no quitter 👍

If you still have the old sensor, I would love to see you back to the test bench. In the vise with a straight edge and a feeler gauge. Whats the Air gap at 1 turn and then 2 turns. Air gap should be 0.020-0.059 in. (0.5-1.5 mm).

I was hoping and praying, that you would not leave that old sensor in there. Not unless you like call backs, which I know you don't.

Now if only we could get Ivan working on the virus.

glue a business card pc to the sensor tighten up the flywheel will wipe it off on start up

Possibly the old crank sensor opened up while under the stress and being stretched by the locknuts?

PHAD - Also Construction Equipment Half Life Refits - Just For All The Fun Involved !

Did you look inside the hole of the crank sensor to see what shape the metal trigger wheel was in? Especially given the amount of crud on the old sensor.

Man, what a horror show! If it ain't one thing, it's something else! I hate days like that, lol. I would've thought for sure that thing would be better off just a few thousands from the teeth, just about ready to smash into them. Guess that only works with Magnetron ignitions! I sure hope those cold windy days are done, though. I spoke too soon! Today is cold and windy! Was 63°last night - had the bullfrogs and peepers chirping away, then woke up to low 30's. I need a tropical island BAD, lol. Today I got introduced to the Chrysler brake-code world. Got a sweet '13 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 5.7 Hemi in here for front brakes. Simple, right? I should've known - anything 2010 and after is going to throw me a curve ball. Turns out there's 5 different styles of brakes for this thing - SRT, Police, V6, Standard, and Heavy Duty. Of course the code is nowhere to be found on the vehicle (nowhere that I looked, anyway). I made the mistake of listening to the customer - he mentioned 4 separate times that it had the "Heavy Duty" brake package. Order them up, and the rotors are over 1/2" too big all the way around! I throw the caliper brackets on, and the rotor binds up solid! Turns out, he had the BRY code package after a call to the dealer with the VIN. I had ordered BR1 pads and rotors. GRRRRR!! Now it sits on my lift all weekend. Brake jobs are supposed to be EASY, I thought!!! 🤯 Hope you and Amanda are staying healthy out there. It's total madness here in MA. We've got the state installing new cameras up and down the MA Turnpike, Nat'l Guard is out and about along with FEMA, and rumor has it they're going to lockdown the entire state Monday (Employers are saying this, but the governor denies it). My wife will be out of work after today for who knows how long. Thank God I'm still working (for now), and we were somewhat prepared ...

Waw this was one hell of a crank sensor 🧐 Did you buy a new Craftsman amp clamp or did you polish the old one 😃

Sounds like these lifts are just falling part! Currently run a 96 JLG 45E as an industrial electrician/maintenance tech at work, that thing gets rode hard a put away wet and never breaks down on us. But I suppose being electric is more reliable. Which sucks because I love my IC power!!!

@CumminsDriver100

4 жыл бұрын

@Ada 1812 Yeah good ol' planned obsolescence unfortunately.

Battery CCA will drop 50% at freezing temp. So use one with 740 CCA from a diesel engine.

@shaunadams3170

4 жыл бұрын

It's a gas engine

@willemstreutgers1154

4 жыл бұрын

@@shaunadams3170 Of course i know but starter batteries for diesels have a much higher CCA

@shaunadams3170

4 жыл бұрын

@@willemstreutgers1154 very true, and thanks for the rapid reply. I have winches and lights and converters in my rigs so I had to upgrade my batteries. Plus after I think 15 years our little firetruck finally needed one replaced so we did both of them.

@shaunadams3170

4 жыл бұрын

@@willemstreutgers1154 what gets me is that they're like a deep cycle with 925 cca each

@fieldsofomagh

4 жыл бұрын

@@shaunadams3170 50% is a huge drop at freezing. Never realised the deficit in power available and the remedy to counteract this serious anomaly.

Hi Ivan ,I've worked with proximity sensors a while ago,and was suspicious of the metal slivers that were on the sensor when you pulled it out.You never determined where that came from? It's possible that a bolt or nail fell onto the crank teeth and wore them down a little { the metal slivers come from a rotating object rubbing against a stationary steel object or maybe a rock wedged at the crank.In the case of yours where it impossible to get a clear view {using the bore scope camera was my thought} you are still missing that info.I'm glad you were able to fix it.Me ,i would ask them to tow it with one of the other lifts to an open area before i would work on it,where its at now is just wrong....they're asking you to do an impossible job with NO CLEAR ASSESS.Those are battlefield operating conditions vs sterile hospital room conditions...Sorry i cant GUARANTEE you my patient won't get bacteria in your bullet wound..haha

Tedah the parts cannon wins! And lives to fire another day.

Ivan, get those lazy people to drag that machine away from the wall. It's doing my head in when you have fix something with hardly any physical access.

Thought this Baby Scissor lift was going to be your Waterloo.

I think all the low voltage cranking burned the windings in the starter out.

Between the shavings on the old sensor, and the wonky waveform/critical gap spacing, I'm thinking that the flywheel gear teeth are severely worn from all the cranking.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

Opposite end of the engine 😁

​ Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics - Do you still have the starter? Worth a bench teardown?

Seems strange they would make that so the air gap is adjustable, most cars I've worked on it isn't adjustable. With it being that way it's just more stuff to go wrong.

We need to clone you, desperately. Also, please stay healthy and safe.

Adjust the sensor to 40 to 60 tho by the looks the starter look like a denso the contractors burn out common fault you can get the repair for them

Just wondering what is the usual current draw for a healthy starter ? Did the right call on the deep cycle. Was there any info in the service manual on the correct distance for the crank sensor ? There seems to be a lot of confusion about the exact positioning on the net as to the exact spacing. The bench research was helpful in explaining the operation. Surprised at the drop in idling speed with sensor spacing. All in all, job successfully completed.

@jannepo

4 жыл бұрын

1.6 liter 4 cylinder gas engine with 9,3:1 compression at 20C/70F, peak current 150A, 110 A at the end of the compression stroke and 70A when piston is going down. At -20C/4F my guess is 250A or more, have not measured.

@fieldsofomagh

4 жыл бұрын

@@jannepo Thanks for the information at what figures I should expect.

Wow, 83 degrees and pollen falling here in NC.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

4 жыл бұрын

We got one warm day today...70F. Back down to 30F tonight though lol

600Aj Jlg not working on emergency mode up nd down area only vibrating

Sorry reluctor wheel is a problem as they are not that consistent for sure and then you add wear to it and when you gapped it at 180 degrees it could be touching or almost. I have seen it on older Chrysler’s for sure

So the shavings came from internal engine wear