I feel compelled to comment since I stumbled upon this by accident just now. It's been many years since I worked on Jenka's Nightmare and I haven't done a lot since, but I've also grown a lot as a "game designer". One of the biggest faults to Jenka's overall difficulty curve is that I was not very good at designing difficulty due to a very strong mastery of the base game (1hp runs of ballos in my sleep with polar star), and this is a common problem when designing as a novice designer. It becomes very hard to judge how hard something is because doing something really dumb, like playing through Sand Zone with exclusively the fireball, eventually begins to feel "easy to do". It should have almost certainly been playtested more, but wasn't. The change in design to the Snake was absolutely a poor decision and it's difficult for me to defend the choice. I always found the snake quite powerful in certain scenarios (nuking thicc enemies), but since those scenarios aren't omnipresent it was absolutely a dumb decision to limit its power as much as I did. If I could change it, I'd consider making it a powerful burst option and figure out how to make ammo recharge while it's not the held weapon (and conveying when it's ready to use), giving it a stronger presence instead of... whatever I did to it here. I think a design flaw I pushed myself into was producing tonnes of collectibles in the form of ammo capsules so that weapons would eventually grow to eclipse their original counterparts, but it was naive of me to assume players would feel compelled to get all the ammo upgrades of a given weapon just to make it usable in the back-half of the game. This eventually became a crutch for bloating the game's content by adding an unnerving number of chests throughout the game. Some weapon nerfs (including the snake) are somewhat (but not really) justified by the existence of turbo items you can obtain if you jump through certain hoops in the NG+ concept I put together. This is **really** bad design and I would **absolutely** avoid this if I were making it now. Turbo Snake should have been the standard, and something like Turbo Spur should have been a more obvious upgrade instead of "thing you get if you loaded a certain save file". No idea why I was so insistent on the NG+ concept when almost nobody who has played Jenka has ever actually utilized it, or was even aware it was 'a thing' to begin with... Another... weird thing to bring to some vague defence: everything up to the genesis fight (but not oblivion) was more or less shmitz's design kept as intact as I could for... some reason. The Excalibur was always an optional side weapon but it almost certainly should have been a mandatory inclusion instead of something players could and would often miss. Without it, the front half of the game is really dumb. Not sure why I insisted on keeping that as-is since I equally share the blame in preserving it. There once existed somewhere a version of Jenka in beta whose weapon experience was even stricter than it is in the release version, and I am happy to report that I took that version out behind the shed long ago. With that said, I'd consider nowadays greatly boosting the post-lv3 exp on certain items to make them more long-term reliable, the fireball certainly being one of them. That and maybe reducing Suto's grab damage to zero so his toss into the boss is the only thing to look out for. And maybe reducing the number of enemies jesus christ why are there so many enemies. Also I'm still a bit of an ass I admit, I laugh at dying to the crusher killing someone after that fight. I shouldn't, but it's so stiflingly cruel that I can't help it. (Want to retry? >No.) Puzzle solutions are definitely a problem that should have been conveyed a lot better, or at least given a means to tell the player that they were actually making progress. Puzzles such as Sand Zone's teleporters and the Labyrinth loop aren't bad puzzles but are bad at conveying what's going on. Almost all of the problem points in this review are things I *would* call shmitz's fault, but I was under zero obligation to keep them as they were. The original areas mentioned as highlights of the mod are, mostly, areas that I made myself outside of shmitz's original creation, and the narrative as well (including, at its fault, some of its wordiness). "Until the end." The ending plot beats were almost certainly borrowed from some story I read on fanfiction.net a long long time ago. I could not tell you what the name of it was, but the concept of The Doctor bodying Quote and using his body like a puppet and being confronted/defeated by Curly was the largest take-away. For some reason I was absolutely compelled to take this concept and shoehorn it into an ending that really didn't need it -- but it also largely stemmed from a limitation in Cave Story modding, at least at the time: "How do I use existing assets to produce a new ending?" The Sakamoto thing was entirely me though and kind of cringe. I think it stemmed from wanting a cool "Did you know Jenka had a brother?" narrative and was pulled out the nose from there. You may notice I use "I" a lot above, and the differentiation between shmitz and myself in distinctly separate parts is purely intentional. Working on the mod after shmitz left it on the cutting room floor years before I started was almost entirely a solo project, from rewriting the dialog to redesigning the areas to adjusting the balance. I attempted to reach out to them on several occasions, but was met with radio silence, even after the mod was completed. Probably should've just made a solo mod instead frankly. In closing, more than anything I really enjoy watching people play this mod, because for its many, many faults I am proud of how it turned out. Not just as a cave story mod, but as a learning experience in designing games. I am happy that I made it, and just the same I'm happy to agree with this review. Thanks for putting it together.

@TectonicImprov

Жыл бұрын

This was a very interesting perspective to read and I'm glad you didn't take my criticism too personally. Regardless of some of its rough spots, you and Shmitz deserve plenty of props for being trailblazers in the cs modding scene. Thanks for taking time out of your day to watch my video.

@MegaVile2004

Жыл бұрын

I kind of wish there could be a Deluxe update to Jenka's Nightmare, that could tackle and fix some of the problems listed out here above like the Snake, NG+, Surplus Chests and stuff, and maybe a different rewrite for the True end, but. I can imagine this is a project you'd want to leave behind as it is rather than give it a lengthy polish by getting back into it. This was such a great game and I'm glad to see it's not detested even in today's standards.

@noneofyourbusiness4133

8 ай бұрын

how've the years been treating you? It's been a LONG while and it's very- well! Nostolgic! for me.

@BlazingLarvesta

Ай бұрын

@ZarroTsu Ah, I knew the banter from the Quote fight sounded familiar. I think I stumbled upon the fic in question a while back; it’s called “The Stranger I Knew”. Frankly, while the idea behind the fic was an interesting what-if scenario, it got too graphic and perverted for its own good on many occasions, especially considering the source material.

@DanzTheGB

Ай бұрын

Real shit

I remember the original developer left around Sand Zone (from what I recall), and since he was hired by Nicalis a year or two later, I think our buddy Tyrone didnt want this being finished

@angrycinnabon2956

2 жыл бұрын

Seeing how CSE2 bit the dust at Tyrone's hands... I have this gut feeling we should download Jenka's nightmare to our PCs as a "just in case" situation. i'm not trying to be paranoid but everything seems to be on deck these days.

@supersomething951

2 жыл бұрын

@@angrycinnabon2956 nicalis hired the initial dev making Jenka’s Nightmare

@angrycinnabon2956

2 жыл бұрын

@@supersomething951 yeah I know, I'm more implying that since this was finished by someone else that Tyrone would want it taken down. Just silly what if thoughts lol

@supersomething951

2 жыл бұрын

@@angrycinnabon2956 tyrone cannot be stopped

@Bellitchi

2 жыл бұрын

Is there any actual evidence of this?

Really well spoken, I last played Jenka's Nightmare YEARS ago but I still remember the Underside, Devil's Garden, and the Conduit just as much as maps from the OG Cave Story, but I can't remember barely anything from the maps that were just modified from the first. I had zero qualms when I first played the game, but looking back on it I really wish the final level was more unique. It kind of just felt like hell but backwards, I wish they'd gotten some artists on board to make an entirely new tile set, or at least modified a different set than the original game's secret final level.

Thanks for making this Edit: 100% agree about the Quote Curly backstories being forced. I was pretty happy assuming it was a cannon continuation until that reveal.

@robertwyatt3912

3 жыл бұрын

Idk I think it’s pretty good

I was always curious about this. Cave Story is my favorite game, and the hardest game I ever can beat. No way I could play much of this mod. Always appreciate your content!

@assassinv0299

3 жыл бұрын

👏

I think you're just the cave story guy now

Jenka's Nightmare is probably my favorite Cave Story Mod.

Babe wake up new TectonicImprov video

I recently played all of JNR in a single sitting with some friends a month ago, and I agree with nearly everything you said here. The presentation in my opinion was one of the best parts of the game, but the rest including story, level design, puzzles, difficulty curve, and weapon loadouts always felt a little under-handed and despite my years of experience with the game, as well as making a sequel mod of my own, I often found myself frustrated with the difficulty despite getting the Excalibur and thinking I knew each puzzle inside and out. The bosses are fun but often times blindside you with extra stipulations like with the Gaudiskateers bringing in Rollings every time you kill a Gaudiskateer, or Suto having up to 4 phases in his final battle when you get the spur, or even the twin orge demons at the top of Arcadia. I felt a lot of Curly's section of the game was needless padding to get a bunch of lore exposition and to give Curly a role in the end game, and finding out I couldn't access the boss rush because I didn't find the three hidden rooms that are sealed off after certain points in the story frustrated me. I think the mod is great, especially in presentation, and has a lot of good ideas, but I found myself groaning often at the bloated maps, awkward weapon choices, bad difficulty curve, and confusing game design choices that ultimately bog down the experience as a whole. I think this mod did a lot to innovate "what makes a Cave Story mod good", but all because the mod is fully fleshed out and realized alleviate itself from criticism and scrutiny; you don't get a get-out-of-jail free card for being a completed mod. I think the mod has good ideas, but it's muddled by poor ideas just as much. I enjoyed your review and I would love to see more reviews of other CS mods if possible!

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

I would love to look at some more mods of cave story in the future. I would need to know where to look though as Jenka's Nightmare is one of the only ones I know that has achieved any sort of mainstream coverage

@BionicleBuilderB

3 жыл бұрын

@@TectonicImprov The only other ones I can think of that got mainstream coverage are the 4th Ending mod, and "Cave (no story)", but I don't think either of those would have as much to talk about... Maybe something more known to the modding/forums community could work? WTF Story and "Japanese Cave Story 2" come to mind for some classics, or Headman, Treasure Islands, and Ordeal Pillar for newer mods.

@robertwyatt3912

3 жыл бұрын

@@TectonicImprov there’s a VERY interesting mod called the Cave Story 4.13th ending mod. It’s, uh, a bit dark.

@abdcdfefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

2 жыл бұрын

@@TectonicImprov video on rave story or WTF story would be cool

Gaudi eat mimiga. Mimiga eat flowers. But if the flowers are red, gaudi and mimiga eat each other.

Honestly, I think if the player got the Polar Star where the Fireball is found that would have been better. It'd be a sentimental moment, finally reuniting with the Polar Star, your first ever gun on your Cave Story adventure, after all this time. I also feel like the sentimental factor would be good reassurance to show the players who just got sent back to square one with no weapons that there's still a fighting chance to save the day. The first cave could definitely have been reworked without the destructible blocks, its as easy as bringing "The Door" back from the first game, the door with the eye that you encounter in the First Cave, in which you need to kill it to progress. Those are just my personal thoughts. Edit: I also think the blade would have been good for that room, too, if we're going of the sentimental value of the weapon. Though I suppose it wouldn't make as much sense in Jenka's Nightmare as it did in Cave Story...

This was a fun little video. I had not heard of Jenka's Nightmare before, and it gave the info I wanted after that initial intro.

Is this where I post my CSE2 port of Jenka's Nightmare for the 10,000th time :)

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

The floor is yours

@autumn_mnya

3 жыл бұрын

CSE2 port of JN with some QOL options (On the fly FPS switching, V-Sync, Smooth camera, button rebinding, and resolution changing) itskaitlyn.github.io/mods/jn_cse2/index.html

@autumn_mnya

3 жыл бұрын

@Lime Metz idk I'm lazy

@angrycinnabon2956

2 жыл бұрын

@@autumn_mnya HOLY SHIT THAT'S AMAZING. Tyrone is definitely mad at you, but that's a good thing in my book lmao. Gonna try and get this working on switch perhaps if i have time.

@autumn_mnya

2 жыл бұрын

@@angrycinnabon2956 Kaitlyn#0003 :) (hopefully you know what this means) (KZread doesn't like me with comments)

I got to the end of the mod but right at the end I quit at the final boss phase, there's just no way I'm doing that again for basically the same bosses and same ending as the original

I remember being really impressed with this mod. I just kind of accepted it as a sequel .

The Devil's Garden and the "Sacred grounds" with Labyrinth from Rpg Maker as BGM were so hype, the new things like the build up to Genesis and Oblivion were my favorite part

A slightly interesting point I think you may have missed is the Sanctuary, the secret optional area in The Underside. It provides a little bit more narrative relating to Toroko, Arthur, King and Jack and also rewards it's completion with the game's version of the Blade, the Excalibur. Simply having the Excalibur makes the Sand Zone difficulty spike much more manageable. It also provides a nice story event when provided to Jack. The biggest problem in my opinion is the sanctuary itself, which starts innocently enough, but roadblocks you with another needlessly obtuse puzzle common to Jenka's Nightmare, and probably the most egregious one in my opinion besides possibly the labyrinth's, well, labyrinth. I just thought it was pretty hilarious how this secret area and the things it has to offer you both solve a problem you have, and then make another one even worse.

@TectonicImprov

2 жыл бұрын

I do remember going for the Excalibur the first time I played the game, but I didn't know you could get it so early. But yeah that puzzle is ridiculous.

It seems like many of the criticisms you have of Jenka's Nightmare could have been solved with some relatively minor tweaks to gameplay. Maybe it's time for Jenka's Nightmare+ with some adjustments and using the updated higher resolution graphics.

I'm honestly fine with the Quote and Curly backstory, just me though...anything to build up the Doctor as even more as an Asshat. But yeah, this mod does have it's flaws and my first playthrough was a nightmare, it's a mod that unless you play it twice, you'll have a rocky time unlike some other "Fan Sequel mods" i've played like A lost land (which is definitely a weaker mod in comparison, but still worth playing). Jenka's nightmare is definitely a great mod imo, but most of what you point out are things i can still equally agree with.

Great video essay!

@uhmwhat2895

3 жыл бұрын

Oh, thought i was special for a sec, you heart every comment lmao

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

@@uhmwhat2895 all of my subscribers are special ❤️

Just finished the mod. Mod's good i don't deny. But i agree with you've said in the video. I really hated Labyrinth, totally-not-livingwaterway, Sand Zone puzzle (although it was my fault), and the end part of mod starting from first visit to Last Cave, i just gave up in the boss there and from that point i've just locked health and cheated my way through. And i definitely didn't feel like going through Sacred Grounds again (for the 4th time overall, if i also count the secret one in the mod). Also that brother/sister thing was definitely something pulled out of the ass. Although there was one moment in the mod brought out of me a genuine feeling of sadness down to crying for something fictional, which is already extremely hard to bring out of me. And its one of the things i applaud the mod for. Though that puzzle sucked, so i searched a solution for it, i don't like these types of puzzles.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Excalibur with a secret boss fight with toroko during the bottom of the island segment

@TectonicImprov

Жыл бұрын

You know when I first played the game I actually did do the Excalibur side quest but I completely spaced it when doing the video. I don't think it would've changed my opinion much though.

I have never liked the Spur. Sure, it is undeniably a very powerful weapon, one of the best in the game. However I don't like the spur because it kind of undermines what makes the guns in Cave Story so interesting. The weapon leveling mechanic is brilliant, and losing weapon level was a unique way of punishing the player for taking damage, as opposed to just taking away health. It gave each gun a very unique push and pull as you switch to lower level guns to bring them up again after taking damage from a difficult fight. The spur just kind of ignores all of that and makes the rest of the weapons largely pointless. Also, the machine gun is so cool. I wish there was a game entirely built around its hover mechanic because I love using it so much. I know this comment doesn't have much to do with Jenka's Nightmare, but I wanted to lay out my annoyance with the spur regardless.

I had to beat the giant critter boss 3 times because I kept dying to the blocks next to the save point.

@TectonicImprov

Жыл бұрын

My condolences.

I just assumed Quote was a woman until I saw this video.

@TotallySearch

3 жыл бұрын

Bruh moment

>Makes video criticizing JN >Doesn't mention the sand zone puzzle

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

That puzzle honestly wasn't too bad, at least going back to it. It's definitely in the category of "obtuse" though

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

Also worth mentioning that up until the sand zone I quite liked the mod and the weird puzzle was riding on previous good will. Whereas the Labyrinth has a huge difficulty spike alongside a frustrating puzzle.

@BionicleBuilderB

3 жыл бұрын

@@TectonicImprov Oh for sure! I don't think I ever made it past labyrinth.

7:28 this is where it got ridiculous and I gave up. Had no ammo for my missiles and a level 1 fireball. The difficulty was just too much and there was barely any reward. A great effort was put into this mod, but like you said, most of what happens within sounds good on paper, but not so good when actually executed in a way such as this.

Tapping the booster is much better than holding.

@Le-PainCat

Жыл бұрын

amen brother

with some story tweaking and stuff, jenkas nightmare could have been related to cave story like how deltarune is related to undertale. a new story with the same characters. my lowest time in blood stained sanctuary in cave story was 3,48,2. this game felt like it took all my experience and raw dogged it without lube. my first playthrough (like a week ago because i just got a computer and would play cave story on a wii (shut up. im poor)) i didnt get the blade. i nearly cried myself to sleep knowing i could have gotten the excaliber for the rest of the game. all in all jenkas nightmare was meant to feel like a continuation of cave story, yet still just feels like some mod. it still feels like someone else made it.

At first, I liked the idea of puzzles, the bushland one was fun, even the sand zone one, but then they got too hard and frustrating, at least Devil's Playground was fun too (except semi-final segment). I left the game right before the Arcadia segment, because it's was too hard to me, like Blood Stained Sanctuary in original Cave Story

I liked it tbh

I'm playing this game on my phone using (PPSSPP) emulator

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

Good luck

@iamalonelyguy9914

3 жыл бұрын

same lol

Jenka's Nightmare? More like, Janky Nightmare haha am I right guys?

jenka nightmare and nemesis challenge made by shmitz then he disappeared leaving Nothing online like he's not proud of his art

Nerdieo said hi

You know what it will be more fun? Cave Story but creepypasta version, Quote will be the main guy of the creepypasta now what would his name be. Quote.EXE?

@TectonicImprov

2 жыл бұрын

There's a mod for the game called Cave No Story that's apparently kinda creepy. You might be interested in checking that one out

This game was always too tricky for me.

bro WQDYM Snake is an obscure weapon? I got it in my first run, n I thought U are pretty much guaranteed to talk to the dude who is selling it

@TectonicImprov

Жыл бұрын

I've said this before but imo the snake is obscure to me because it's in a weird middle ground where I think most first time players wouldn't come across it. I think most first time players would trade their polar star for Curly's machine gun so the Snake wouldn't even be possible for those players. And while it's not as secretive as the Spur, it doesn't have the same prestige either. The Spur is the best gun in the game which gives it some renown with fans. So that leaves the Snake in a strange spot. More secretive than the machine gun, not as good as the Spur. Because of that imo it falls into obscurity.

I really like jenka's nightmare but i believe more people should realize that all three of the spur upgrades have great damage potential i love using the snake more than the spur and even the machine gun i just dont get how spur is always regarded as "the best one"

El juego tiene traducción a español?

@zusuki431

2 жыл бұрын

Creo que no

jenkas nightmare more like players nightmare

TCB🌠 ua please can you tell how to extract the file

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

Should be as simple as unzipping the file with winrar or some other program

TCB🌠 HI that looks so cool 😎😍 please tell me how did you get this please tell me please I really love Cave story

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

Check the link in the description. It'll take you to a download for the game.

@staymonspencertcb7046

3 жыл бұрын

TCB🌠 ok

Didn’t even play new game+ smh

@TectonicImprov

3 жыл бұрын

I considered it but I don't have a save file of the original cave story on my current pc.

têm para emulado de android !!!!!!!!

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