23:30, what you are seeing is a module with a bad connection to the bus on that leg, but the module receiving the message has decoded its message from just the one leg. The receiving module then sends the ACK out on both lines as normal. (Incidentally that's why the end pulse is sometimes a different amplitude than the rest of the packet - it's come from a different module!) I'm sure there is one more module with a CAN B (-) open circuit ACTIVE code. Go there! At the next level, you could use CAN decoding on the scope to see the originating address of the faulty module. This would save you a lot of time - as long as you knew what each module's address was. VAG vehicles make this easy - that's what the hex number relates to at the module selection screen on the scan tool.

@cccspokesmanandcofounder

Жыл бұрын

How is this one incredibly valuable comment that answers the question that Ivan asked….. the ONE comment that doesn’t get a like or is acknowledged. Great info. Thanks!!!

@willypalooza6519

Жыл бұрын

Holy shit thank you. I will remember that in the future. Ive recently taken the dive into networks and this is crazy valuable. THANK YOU DUDE

Hi Ivan, I am not car specialist, just DIY, but I know a bit about CAN because I have a Volvo S80, another stupid CAN, LIN and MOST networks used for communication between modules! It shows me a message even for a burnt parking bulb! Your CAN B(-) signal is defective for sure, the signal must be in perfect amplitude "opposition", max value is binary 1 and low is binary 0, when the modules receive the signal and use the quality factor they can throw a code if the signal is faulty and can not be used. Now, is any radio interference there(check for any Bluetooth or other dongles in OBD or 12V plugs), or is a module or even lose wires or plug that resonates with engine vibrations? Hard to say! Good luck with it, seems to be complicated! P.S: Your videos are great and very interesting, I watched all of them no matter how long they are! Some people complain about videos length, don't listen to them, you are doing diagnose, they can watch Scotty for short DIY bulb replacing!

CAN Bus is HIGHLY dependent on good grounds. We use CAN on our CT machines. If a bad ground is present, the CAN bus goes nuts!! A missing ground causes the CAN bus to just go random and it just doesn’t work at all. Check your grounds. Imagine, a Chrysler product with bad grounds. That never happens. 😂😂 Suggestion: start removing modules off the CAN bus until it becomes stable. Then reconnect until it goes ape again. Make dang sure you check all the grounds to each and every module. Even one module which is missing a ground can cause the CAN bus to go nuts.

I guarantee that orange car doesn't have a module for the cigar lighter.

@johnjoseph7382

5 жыл бұрын

this is why you don't have modules for everything in the car

The suspense is killing me, please hurry up with part 2 😁

You have one faulty module dragging the can bus. The blip you see is the can message "in frame" response.

@williegillie5712

5 жыл бұрын

Simon Johnson Makes sense to me

@TheVirindi

5 жыл бұрын

Question is, could a partially powered module which is still connected to the bus cause bus problems without being otherwise faulty? While that would for sure be a poor design, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

@gregstrakovsky5008

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheVirindi Typically any TTL or CMOS logic can fail in unpredictable state and "underpower" can compromise entire BUS operation.., except may be SCSI and VME protocols witch seems well protected trough BUS controller structure or optocoupler ASSY. As Automation designer and high tech repair guy with 30+ ears on field - can state: it can happen time to time. Of course wiring condition and components quality is in the first call for any automotive application.

Seems like the TCM power/gnd problem is fairly persistent so would chase that as an easy starting point, and on the way you might also find what is causing network problems (e.g. harness messed up). The scope trace looks like what you would expect if there is a break in one of the CAN lines, so that when a module on the opposite side of the break is transmitting you only see pulses on one of the lines. To find out which module that is, you could use the pico serial decoding to get the message ID of the 'bad' message (by decoding the working + line), then pull fuses until you don't see that message ID anymore on the network (using serial decoding on the working CAN line, and looking in the table view of the decoded data) - then knowing which module it is and knowing the harness layout you can figure out which connectors or splices etc could have a connection problem. For stuff like this I find it useful to set pico to a long timebase like 1-2sec per division and turn the sample size up as high as your scope will go (rather than the default 1MS) so you can get a long capture on the screen at once and have a high enough sample rate to be able to decode it. If you can get 5 seconds of data on the screen at once that is probably long enough for each message to have been transmitted at least once.

I just had similar issues and codes with my 2006 Jeep Commander. I changed the ignition switch 2 times with new switches thinking one could be bad, that didn’t work. But I had a lot of electrical stop working. Door locks, speedometer, temp gauge, power windows, turn signals, sunroof, radio and much more. All the warning lights on. After checking everything and all good, it ended up being melted/fused wires under the second row seats under the carpet, 3-6 wires. The melted wires are caused from the muffler being directly under those wires. It gets so hot there the heat actually discolors the metal floor pan and also burns the underside of the carpet. I had the Jeep running when I started to separate the wires and it actually shut the Jeep down, crank no start. 3-6 wires that are damaged can disable this vehicle, and that’s insane. The other thing I noticed with owning a Commander with a misfire is the spark plugs, they need to be cleaned or replaced very frequently and that fixes it.

You're so comfortable talking to a camera as if we are there. You're an excellent presenter of your craft. Love your content. Keep up the good work.

been there done that replace your ignition switch all better had this issue on my 07 grand Cherokee and arqued with service tech he said that would not fix issue I convince him to try it and its was all better

@killer2600

5 жыл бұрын

I agree and I didn't need a Jeep to tell me that.

6.30.19. That’s a Shweeeeet lookin Mandarin Karmann Ghia™️👌🏽

I believe the CAN B Network is in a single wire mode, short the last module to ground with a jumper wire. The problem module will stop communicating because its circuit path has been eliminated.

The customer complaint is ....... "I'm driving a jeep."

@mansonmydog

5 жыл бұрын

JUST JUNK

@daviddelle774

5 жыл бұрын

Wellll, it's a vehicle with the "JEEP" name on it.

@robertwhite9898

Жыл бұрын

It’s a Jeep thing you wouldn’t understand lol 😂

The local garages are saving these little gems for you.

@jscott4613

2 жыл бұрын

There out for sale everywhere now im looking at A 4.7 2006 limited wish me luck .i know i shouldnt get one

@ryanduderty3963

Жыл бұрын

@@jscott4613 you got that thing..?? I'm looking at 1 but scared to pull da trigger always hearing bad get back

@jscott4613

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanduderty3963 never got it got a chevy avalanche instead...best move

150 000 miles : o² sensors are just worn out,heaters are down. For the rest,i would say that some corrosion is working its way on the grounds. You can't have so many codes,so randoms and so randomly, once in a while. Vibrations and rust i guess.

The orange car is a Vw Karmann ghia. The grandad of all your favorite German cars that you love fixing lol.

@djambrosia

5 жыл бұрын

@Vladimir Putin I've been looking for a sensible project Ghia for a while. They all seem to be either show cars or basket cases.

Love watching Dr. Ivan at work!

3:31 Eric o's famous "HEY! its that guy.." popped in my head haha

Looks like it's time to call your best troubleshooting resource ... Identifazio.

@paultomasetti5164

5 жыл бұрын

Ooohh...I think that’s gonna stick!

@juanrodriguez-ry6yt

5 жыл бұрын

i want that no.too that italian is on another level

@juanrodriguez-ry6yt

5 жыл бұрын

maybe i can at least get rocco's

VW Karmann ghia, first "sports car" I recall seeing in my small home town back in the late 50s.

Intermittent issues are tough. With so much information it's hard to decide on a direction. In my very limited experience I would have seen that scope display and thought the CAN C was not correct, only because it didn't look the same as CAN B. I'll be back for part two for sure.

I had a similar problem on my 2002 Chrysler Sebring convertible. Turned out to be the main ground lug on the strut tower had rust under the main ground wire. Cleaned out the rust to insure a good solid ground and all my issues went away. Basic power and grounds.

This reminds me of a film called "Nightmare on Elm street" your not on Elm street are you Ivan....first thoughts are either a module fault or cam bus fault, I do know your supposed to be able to put an ohm meter across two of the terminals on the obd socket an measure 60 oms, as there are 2 x 120 resistors at either end of the cam bus, so there in parallel, so its 60 ohms, and you should be able to get cam bus signal from the obd socket I do believe, think maybe the oxygen sensor looking bad might be due to module fault or something...good luck, you might need it from Fred in UK, might be worth leaving the battery disconnected overnight...

@Jpilgrim30

5 жыл бұрын

Not on this one and others like it. It’s two can buses that share info through a gateway. You can get to the can c from the data link connector but not the can b. The front control module is the gateway and the data link connector connects to it over can c.

Customer Complaint: Excessive Camo Detected

Just Every Electrical Problem

@RicardoPCGamer

5 жыл бұрын

Just Empty Every Pocket

@mikefoehr235

5 жыл бұрын

Just Everyone Elses Parts

@mansonmydog

5 жыл бұрын

JUST JUNK

@volvo09

5 жыл бұрын

Back in the 08 recession with $5 a gallon gas (in the northeast, not Cali where that's sorta common) I recall seeing ads for new v8 jeep commanders with INSANE discounts, like over 15k off msrp, maybe more... I was tempted with buying one even though it was so impractical and I already had model year 05 car. So glad I didn't buy one (and it would still be more reliable than a new FCA jeep)

@mikefoehr235

5 жыл бұрын

Just Eats Every Penny

Ivan, one of the few people who thinks a code is cool.

I seem to remember the saying the other modules always tell on a bad module. Just have to narrow the culprit down. Starting with the easiest ones to check. Unplug them one at a time to find the bad one causing most of the problems. Plug that peck in and watch the signal when the bad one is taken out of the equation. Also a bad skim or a miss matched skim can cause problems also. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy.

23:54 Looks like one of the modules on the CAN has lost it's CAN-L line connection. The spike at the End where the levels are correct is probably the ACK pulse from the other modules.

Love the Beer note on the dash, always remember beer.

After watching this, I would immediately replace the ignition switch, then and only then chase powers and grounds at the PCM / TCM. The ignition switch triggers everything else to turn on and needs to maintain continuity and consistent power delivery while KOEO, start, and run for all other modules to function correctly, but specifically it has a huge impact to the PCM, the main brain. Start with the obvious problem of a crappy/inconsistent ignition switch that is your main power signal to all computers.

Even the Saturn-5 rocket systems getting us to the moon and back wasn't that complicated in comparison. Like the old adage (which still rules, IMO), "keep it simple/stupid KISS" and stuff will work a long, long time.

@badgerpa9

4 жыл бұрын

After Nixon and a bunch of the guys left what became NASA they went to Chrysler.

It’s a Chrysler I always check all the grounds before I do anything. 🤔🤔🤔🤔

@TonyRule

5 жыл бұрын

My money is on green crusties on either the power or ground for the TCM.

I'd start chasing powers and grounds, Ivan. My money is on a bad ground.

I just went through this battle with a grand cherokee. All sort of computer issues/would shut down going down the road (would feel like massive misfire going down road) and all sorts of bizarre problems and code. Found it to be EMI interference from the bosche sparkplugs installed . On jeeps you really need to use the proper champion plugs.I have dealt with it twice on a jeep and a charger. Disconnect the computer case from ground and you will probably find the issue goes away. If so check the plugs and ignition coils to make sure they are OEM . If the plugs are not the proper champion or ngk the jeep was made with change them and make sure the coil are oem. I have found the napa coil have less inductive kick back then oem and do not cause problems .

37 minutes of chasing shadows... Ivan, it's a chrysler... go check your grounds!

Mossy Oak car accessories don't say you like Mossy Oak, but "I shop at Walmart"

@roadkill5333

5 жыл бұрын

MOSSY OAK!! not a sponsor!! Lol

Well, that's a good one ! Is they're a mouse or squirrel biting the harness somewhere..lol. Good luck !

this vid is so informative, there's just not enough street info out there about jeep commanders

I'm leaning towards green crusties. Can't wait for part 2

Come on, unplug the ABS module already! lol Just kidding. This is a good one Ivan. It will be interesting to see which module is messing with the signal. Bring on part 2!

happy 4th july Ivan to you an your family, hope the weather is favourable for yous cheers

Mine had the same problem. Took it to the shop they replaced the computer module

My friend, there you only have to change the pcm for the DTC P1603 that code is very specific. When there is a report about the double Ram port, it is already something internal in the PCM. you have to replace it.

It's just sending out an SOS signal to go to the junkyard.

Ivan, brother, what about the 12v on the CAN B- line when you first got looking at all four channels. Where was that coming from? BTW, keep up the great work, always learn a ton watching you diagnose.

The ECM/TCM combo module resets while driving! Check the 2 power feeds to the module as the manual says! If the module crashes/glitches/resets randomly due to power problems it has the ability to drag down the entire CAN bus and everything freaks out due to the corrupt CAN messages! (especially if it is a master on the bus)

A JEEP WITH ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS, NO WAY, LOL.

@RicardoPCGamer

5 жыл бұрын

a Chrysler with any kind of problem. No way, I have never heard anything bad about them.

@NoWr2Run

5 жыл бұрын

IT'S A JEEP THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND.

@mansonmydog

5 жыл бұрын

JUST JUNK

@NoWr2Run

5 жыл бұрын

The earlier Cherokee's & ZJ'S which I own are pretty good, the inline 6 is INDESTRUCTIBLE IF YOU TAKE CARE OF IT. YES I did do a lot of wiring upgrades though.

There is a recall on that ignition switch.

Ivan, just watching this vid is frustrating. Each time you turn the ignition key it seems your frustration level is higher than the turn before. Eagerly awaiting Part 2...

Can't wait to see what the cause is. I assume you are going to scope the powers and grounds to the TCM and if they stay good while the vehicle acts up, you are going to call the PCM/TCM bad. All the clues seem to point to a problem in the PCM/TCM circuit board. When strange things happen on Chryslers, like they often do. I like to do a wiggle test of the harness under the hood while the engine is running to see if it acts up. Sometimes you wiggle a loose ground wire or the harness shorting out or simply flex the PCB board in the computer by flexing the harness. You can also leave your scanner on the code screen, wiggle the harness and look for code to pop up on the screen, when a new code sets it will usually display right away. I have found many a shorted harness setting codes this way. I think you are doing a great job on your channel and I am enjoying your videos. Thank You.

What you saw in scop was the problem! You have an open line in one of the wires of the b can bus.

@jameswillmore8249

5 жыл бұрын

I agree with you. classic open connection. Connector or badly crimped pin.

I just got finished up with a 2011 Compass that was a no crank no start and it had some of the same codes. Now I'm just a minute and a half into this video when I paused it to write this comment and I want it to be like a movie spoiler where somebody tells me it was also a broken CAN C- wire to the TIPM. I just want somebody to knock on my door and tell me, "Yup, Thanos snapped his fingers and wiped out half of all life in the universe AND he broke half of all the Chrysler CAN circuits on the planet. That's why half his body got burnt.....Chrysler CAN circuits required a sacrifice."

Did you use the electrical problem checklist? It's an intermittent problem. Did you apply Occam's Razor to get to the solution? One squirrel or rat feasting on the wiring could be the cause of your problems. Good luck, Ivan.

Honestly my first thought would be to clean/tighten battery terminals. I have a similar 2007 Commander and hers went wonky one day. Found a loose ground terminal on the battery. Tightened and all was well again. Probably not the same here, just a first check idea.

What would Scotty Kilmer do (WWSKD?) Bought a Toyota, because we all know they never have problems...

@toddmcafee

5 жыл бұрын

Like my buddy at the Honda stealership. Well we have 6 bays full 7 days a week....

You have the patience of God, Ivan.

Happy to see the MPV again

I think you're on the right track, here! So much inconsistency in the fault behavior, it's best to ignore the actual faults and hone in on a logical commonality. I think in this case the "Central Gateway" is a misleading misnomer. As far as network topology is concerned, yes, everything gets routed through it, but that doesn't mean it's the only module engaging in gateway-like behavior, and when you have an integrated PCM/TCM module with independent powers and grounds, that raises a red flag in my head that there's potentially a lot more data parsing going on between those two logic modules than we'd perhaps expect.

The odd message you were seeing on the Can B - line is not normal. That is a module sending out a garbage transmission. The question is which one? Pico software has the ability to decode binary transmissions, you just have to specify which protocol (HS CAN is standardized) It won't tell you what the message is because it's all in hexadecimal format, but every message includes the module ID that it originated from. You may be able to determine the module ID from the + wire since that message looked fine, then do some messing around with communication with various modules in that network to see if you can narrow it down.

Check for good grounds and then check good connections through plugs at gateway module.

Surely it must be a mortal sin of the auto manufacturer to build a monster like this: that has this much potential for developing major problems.

jeep comander has a rap sheet mile long, even felons in jail don't have rap sheet that long.

Ivan! It's a jeep thing lol. I figure it's something to with the key module causing lost comm with other modules. Or bad grounds. Seems to be common problem that bad crusty greeny grounds

I would start by checking the harness going to the fuse box (aka FCM). There have been issues with the harnesses getting rubbed through and connection in the fuse box getting corroded. Rodents also like to chew these harnesses under the fuse box. I guess it's a convenient spot for them to sit. If that is okay, check the harness going to the PCM especially around the right rear head area. Been know to have valve cover bolts rub through the harnesses. If that is okay, start load testing the power and ground wires and the communication wires.

Hey Ivan start checking the power & grounds for the PCM/TCM. It's possible the TCM is not reading the inputs correctly & shorting the can bus to open.

I bet Keith knows!

Push in on that key before you turn it. That’s the fix Chrysler came up with when people started taking them to court because they bumped the key with their knee.

Chrysler with an electrical problem. Dang whoda thunk it

Transmission data will show input voltage. My guess is an intermittent power relay for the the transmission. This is a fun one thanks.

...Love the Post-It-Note with binder-clip: 'BEER' That Jeep would drive anybody to 'the drink'. (and perhaps the brink) I guess it's time to put the scanner down and do some visual inspection of the usual suspects. Powers and Grounds.

That car in the rear view mirror looked like a Kharmann Ghia from Volkswagen!

Hi Ivan: Your the first site that I open, every day! As a retired, Canadian Master electrician, I try to do all the repairs on my 2005 GMC yukon. Can you please let me know where I can download the required schematic wiring Diagrams? Thanks in advance. Terry Southgate

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Terry thanks for the kind words! I use AllData for schematics; very good service info :)

Got lots of work for you

Nice video thanks

Seems like either a module with a bad CAN low connection, or a bad module. But then again it's a 13 year old Jeep with the 4.7L, better send it to the junkyard to be safe, lol.

Wonder if you unplug wires as some become loose and snap back wires to module and perhaps a hard factory reset of module and then run diagnostics. Maybe need new programmed module or transmission electrical.

QUESTION: You use thise piercing probes quite a lot yet I don't think I've ever heard you mention anything about repairing the piercings. Are we to take for granted that you do repair the holes or do you just leave them. Paul Danner always reminds techs to repair the holes with some liquid tape.

Obviously this Jeep has some problems but I have also seen a dead or disconnected battery set a slew of CAN U-codes. So I would have to question if some of those codes were because of the battery disconnect and not because of an actual failure.

@srnc9740

5 жыл бұрын

A weak battery or even a drained one can mess with modern cars! It's a possibility besides other thousands! Lol

Intermittent power supply problem to the TCM? This is a 200x Chrysler product...isn't that always the TIPM?! :)

It looks like the best direction at this point is PCM powers and grounds. The codes for power loss keep resetting (Power up at speed, Battery was Disconnected, CAN B (-) Low). There's no way the module can communicate properly if it doesn't have good powers and grounds, so all of its calculations are skewed and it puts out all the other random codes.

You have to push it and then turn on the jeep ignition. You're gonna break it.

Man, Ivan... What have you gotten yourself into with this Jeep! I'd call an exorcist... We're way beyond feeding it a bowl of hot borscht and saying some kind words over it. It looks possessed to me! Curse these two-parters! The suspense is killing me too!

1. Isolate ECM and TCM, by cutting those out of CAN line not connecting the two and add terminal resistors to cut line to both ends. 2. Check the ECM and TCM powers and grounds. 3. Check ECM and TCM internal faults. 4. Check the comm voltages from ECM / TCM to the cut and terminated CAN -lines. Repair if fault found in ECM / TCM area. If no problem there, move to comm module by adding it to the network with ECM / TCM and isolate it from the other CAN busses. If no problem found, connnect CAN C and then CAN B until you find the faulty network. Disconnect all but one module from that network. Add one by one until faulty module found. -> Secure functional base and expand from there methodology.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

5 жыл бұрын

The scientific approach may not be the fastest every time, but it never fails!

@jannepo

5 жыл бұрын

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 100% agreed. Definitely not. But we can also start scientific discussion what is this time limit to transform from chasing ghosts to exclusion approach. It will be an interesting debate as there is no right answer ;) So what ever the outcome, we agree :D

Always interesting

I "can c" a problem, it's a Jeep!! hahahahaha

Ivan- My head hurts.

@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics

5 жыл бұрын

Sorry lol

why did they make the commander cool rwd based optional v8 then come back out with the cherokee as a fiat fwd ugly pos, while the commander is squared off like the old cherokees? dont make sense . they musta got the names mixed up

@gbowne1

5 жыл бұрын

yeah or got some parts mixed up lol

I'm leaning to either bad ground or a bad power supply out of the fuse box. But one thing that jumped out at me when he was having troubles is the security light is blinking.

@salvadorsanchez9958

2 жыл бұрын

I missed the part on how did he eliminate the can bus b codes

we just had a jeep with many of same codes and by luck when he went easy module to check stuff passenger seat module had water in plug and module because its under passenger eat with plug sticking up like a funnel and not weather proof at all and green crusties. We know now to go there first but it was just the easiest place to get to bus wiring to check stuff in car.

Ivan,my head is spinning. Bring it to the crusher. Lol 👍

@mansonmydog

5 жыл бұрын

JUST JUNK

@srnc9740

5 жыл бұрын

Watch Scotty, this video isn't for you!

@arthurfricchione8119

5 жыл бұрын

Obviously we can not make a joke on videos anymore. Everyone gets so friggin serious. You go watch scotty

@srnc9740

5 жыл бұрын

@@arthurfricchione8119 If you can not join an intelligent conversation with those guys, better keep your mouth shut, nobody smiles at stupid english jokes anymore!

im so glad that i have a Jeep xj.

The Jeep has a computer for heated seats? That's like German engineering...

Orange Karmann Ghia is a real car, not a stupid set of electronic modules. Once we thought that the carburetor is something complicated, good old days

I ever wonder if you do house calls here in sunny San Francisco Bay Area?

Doublecheck pinfitment. I have a good friend that has a 2006 RAM. It has itermittent pin fitment issues at the TIPM. The female terminals are getting hot dogs thrown down their hallways.

5 min in and I smell bad grounds.

I'll stick with my 2002 Impala with a simple 4 function control module design; ECM, TCM, ABSM, and BCM.

Is that all good lord

I wonder if it can be lose connections in the electrical system? It will be very interesting too see what the cause is. Good video. 👍

This might be one of those problems which is cured by pouring fuel injection cleaner into the gas tank, and disconnecting the battery leads and touching them together while singing "We Shall Overcome".