Again I'll summarise: -Kor takes a look into the past to see if what Onin said was true. -Had MAYBE set his eyes out for old Jak first (Jak growing up in Haven City he thought). -By going back to Haven, he thought he would end up in the future where young Jak was already sent. He had intended to use old Jak to activate the stone. -Fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present. Since old Jak was corrupted by Dark Eco, he used young Jak; in other words, everything was going according to plan. If Kor had ended up in Haven when Jak was already sent, he would no longer be able to go to the past, because the last rift gate was used to send young Jak and Samos. He was fortunate enough to end up in Haven where young Jak was still present. But WAIT, if Kor and the gang had already used the last rift gate, how come they were still able to use it? We can assume the last rift gate was still in working condition. After the gang followed their destiny and went back, that's when the rift gate got destroyed.

@Facha234

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI Ok, you could explain the time travel between "Jak and Daxter" and "Jak II". However, at the end of "Jak III", Jak said to his gang something about "I'd like to be called by my really name: Mar", so Ashelin get confused about Jak could be "that Mar" we all hear during the trilogy. Is that true? Is Jak that "Mar"? If yes, How could be him? I'll appreciate a lot if you can make a video about this :D

@martinbarrettgamer4333

7 жыл бұрын

Santiago Bonelli nun I don't think Jak is mar because they never shown at the end of jak3 that Jak never went back to the pass to build haven city since mar him self build haven city. And Jak said at the end of the 3th game you could called me by my first name mar. I think Jak is name after mar not the mar that build haven city.

@receptionistwork2172

7 жыл бұрын

I think he is the son of mar though, i may be wrong though. also if Jak 4 ever come out there could be a part where he does go back and builds Haven City.

@windy3935

7 жыл бұрын

Your quotes are inaccurate, but it should be common sense that Jak is only Mar's descendant, named after him in honor.

@noebarreto4507

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI ok let's just say the game daxter actually happened if u played or watched gameplay u will see kor told the baron to go with the dark warrior program once jak came through the rift gate wouldn't he know already that jak will be tainted with dark eco?

Jak 2 honestly has the most straightforward time travel I've seen in a game. It's not really complicated. Jak, Born in the future, sent to the past to grow up and get strong, gets sent to the future, kills Kor, sends his younger self to the past. And it's safe to assume that Kor could've just naturally lived the entire 300 year gap seeing as how he was already the precursor's ancient enemy. Really straight forward.

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Not often I hear people use the term straightforward :P

@orangexlightning

4 жыл бұрын

@@VtnVivi No I suppose not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@VongolaXZax

2 жыл бұрын

@@orangexlightning interesting

@danf1025

2 жыл бұрын

But originally how did his future self send his past self to the past if old jak doesn’t exist yet

@TheGingiGamer

2 жыл бұрын

isn't 300 years a little too soon for a primitive island civilization to become a massive city-state? Remember Mar is said to have founded Haven City in ANCIENT TIMES. Idk about you but when I think of "ancient times" I think about well over 1000 years ago, not 300.

I love how throughout Jak 2 itself, they reference the time travel and hint that the boy is Jak. Samos: "So, this is how it happened..." Samos: "Find yourself, Jak!" Errol: "We've been waiting for you." Pecker: "Onin says it's good to see you again, Jak." Jak: "But we've never met before?" God, I love this game.

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed!

@rongorongo1187

2 жыл бұрын

Samos also calls the boy "young Jak" in the final cutscene of Jak 2, along with Jak telling him to "Avoid any wumpbee nests on his 9th birthday"

@markreyes7454

11 ай бұрын

Oh you see what he said to Onin? My theory I came up with ever since I played jak 2 for the first time back in...when was it? 03 or 04 i believe...anyways, my theory has always been that Onin is the bird lady. But then, years later like around between 2015-2021, I made another theory for online, which is that she's a descendant OF the bird lady. But I feel like my first theory makes way more sense because if she was a descendant of the bird lady then how would she know jake? Now that doesn't make sense. But what also doesn't make sense is how she survived for that long.

@AlrightThere

6 ай бұрын

Bit late to the party but also when Young Jak hands old Jak the security pass. It really focused on them touching hands.

It's a simple causal loop. The OG crew get shot into the future, meet young jak and young Samos who get sent back in time to safety, where they grow older, daxter and Keira come into the picture, and then do it all over again.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@AAA310

6 жыл бұрын

Jt Hogan but i think what most fans want to know is.....how did it START? The loop had to have began somewhere. Meaning something different had to have happened to cause the loop to begin. Like Jak didnt send his younger self back the first time, after that he did and it became repetitive. U get me?

@Villian619

6 жыл бұрын

Some people believe that you can't change the past. So this loop didn't have a beginning. It's just the way it has always been and will always be.

@SasukeSharingan24

4 жыл бұрын

Thats a fact , i’ll tell u what happened jack and samos got kidnapped from the past and sent to the future

@CbriaRules1

4 жыл бұрын

No one knows how it started

Time travel always manages to hurt my brain

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I know :(

@sciencetheory2818

6 жыл бұрын

Hard to get round it

we need jak 4 for the answers.

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

Hey I mean we might never get the answer even in a new game.

@alexdrez4505

6 жыл бұрын

Oh nonono here: Jak is born in haven city and he meets older jak (jak2) and older jack sends him and young Samos 300 years back in time when haven city hasn’t been built yet, they live in sand over village for years, after jack and daxter have got all of the power cells they travel 300 years into the future(a couple months before young jack gets sent to the past) when they arrive in the future jack gets touched by dark ego and explores haven city built by the ancient Mar(Future Jak), jak saves haven city, defeats Kor and sends his younger self back 300 years into the future(Loop) After jak has saved haven city and sent his younger self to the past to become him he gets banished to the wastelands (jak3) and meets his father (Damos) after saving haven city again and the wastelands jak continues his journey in jak4?????? After some events jak decides to travel back in time to the past to sandover village after jak (jak1) has traveled to the future and he calls himself by his true name(Mar) and he builds haven city from the ground by sandover village after years of construction when haven city is finally built jak is old and hides the Precursor thing in his tomb before he eventually dies. That’s the end of Jak LOL

@wd4019

6 жыл бұрын

this is clever indeed.

@sciencetheory2818

6 жыл бұрын

Alex Drez very

@therivaldi8567

4 жыл бұрын

@@alexdrez4505 that's what I think but still complicated, why jak would go to the past again.. (destiny?)

the way I play jak and daxter is I play through jak two, jak and daxter precursor legacy, jak two again (for story purposes), jak 3 and then jak X. Jak and daxter the lost frontier should never have existed.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Oh :O

@IsaiasSoldier2

5 жыл бұрын

We dont talk about lost frontier

@iloveketchup20

5 жыл бұрын

Wow

@m0thaphucka638

5 жыл бұрын

Do you mind explaining more why you play in that order

@nocturnalpie

5 жыл бұрын

You should be playing through Jak 2 again in HERO MODE. Cause now you're a true hero.

This is basically what happened without any real explanation of why it happened. -Young Jak sent to past by older self -Grows up and goes through events in 1st game -Goes through rift -Defeats Kor and sends younger self to past -Goes through events of Jak III, Jak X and that other game which doesn't even deserve mentioning. -??? (Jak 4 and we'd know more).

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Pretty much :P

@jthogan7642

7 жыл бұрын

The best premise for an actual Jak 4 would be Jak and Daxter and whoever else, being sent back in time after the events of Jak 3 to some actual time between leaving Sandover Village and getting to Haven City, which is when that Great War must have happened that they talk about in Jak 2 and 3, and that is where we would see the events of Jak coming to be known as Mar.

@raymanspy95

4 жыл бұрын

@@jthogan7642 I know this was 2 years ago, but how could Jax X happen if and when jak 4 ever is made if he gets sent back after the events of Jak 3?

@ChamChamRealSmooth

4 жыл бұрын

Let's pretend TLF isn't canon.

Man I remember first finding out about the time travel thing at the end of jak 2 as a kid it blew my freaking mind

PEOPLE MAKE VIDEOS ABOUT JAK IN 2017!?!?!??! OH MY GOD

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Crazy I know O_O

@user-vr1ki7xy1d

5 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI I love you

@MrYngwie88

5 жыл бұрын

And people follow it in 2019 haha!

@bkkersey93

5 жыл бұрын

Just like San Andreas, Jak and Daxter are legendary.

keep making jak and daxter videos. Favorite games ever. This was my childhood and would pay hundreds of dollars for another (real) jak and daxter. Good work. Keep it up

The whole game is a time loop. It actually starts from Jak 2. He just goes to the "future" (which is Young Jak's present). The real Jak did continue through Jak 3 but Young Jak still went to the past to grow up to kill Kor.

@DaxterMaster

7 жыл бұрын

As Daxter said "The more you think about it, the more it hurts the head."

You forgot to note that the group panicked and accidentally launched themselves when Kor appeared in the rift gate. When metalheads began invading, they were calm and it would be possible for them to figure out how to close the gate, clean up the damage, and possibly get answers from Samos (Jak would get more training as well as experience in fighting metalheads before going to the future). Samos also never says a single word about the future until it was clear that the future is now written in stone. I like to believe there are two different time "loops" and they cross each other like a figure 8. In the first "loop", we get a fully trained older Jak going into the future when he wants to. This Jak is armed and ready to lead the war against Kor. Kor doesn't like his odds against this older Jak and tries to find answers. By appearing in the past, he creates the second "loop" where Jak enters the future pre-maturely with no knowledge of what to expect. The first "loop" Kor is then defeated and Samos and young Jak is sent to the past without knowing Kor altered it. In the second "loop", we have the common Jak and first "loop" Samos going into the future without preparation. First "loop" Samos has no knowledge of second "loop" future and is easily captured. Jak is unprepared and chaos ensues. Second "loop" Kor doesn't feel threatened by this Jak and didn't change the past as badly as his first "loop" counter-part. Jak manages to defeat Kor and second "loop" Samos and young Jak is sent to the past. Second "loop" Samos is now aware of the greater threat which increases the chance of creating the first "loop" rather than another second "loop". I feel my theory also fixes the chicken and the egg problem. There are many things that could happen but they all would either being the first or second loop which would then complete itself. Maybe in the first timeline, Kor wasn't defeated and Samos fled to the past with young Jak. If Kor searched for young Jak, we get the second loop and if not, we get the first loop.

@tylermoulder64

3 жыл бұрын

This confused me enough to make sense

@tbt_jerry9238

9 ай бұрын

I’d would be great to see the scenario in which JAK is fully trained before stepping into the rift to face KOR as a DLC spin off kinda a thing Or at least a little short film of what could’ve been Such a cool thought

The Oracle said that Kor chased Mar through time, and that Mar hid his tracks well. Therefore we can deduce that the "last rift gate" doesn't really mean the last one in existence, it means the last one that Mar went through before founding Haven City, which was all that was between Kor and the last Precursor Stone, his one true goal. You don't really need a whole lot of back and forth or theories involving changing what was implied to have happened in Jak II. Kor went through the gate, Mar showed up, founded Haven City, 300 years later, older Jak shows up, etc. etc. I think Occam's Razor applies in this case. Kor said that this is where it all began, knowing that at some point Jak did defeat him, which is how young Jak went back into the past. However, he misconstrued the idea that Onin believed Jak needed to be untouched by dark eco to defeat him. On the contrary, it's revealed in the spin-off Daxter game that Onin was actually the one who informed the Baron of Jak's arrival, knowing that he needed the dark powers to defeat Kor, which Kor himself did not know, thus his "original plan" that he thought all was going according to was foiled. Also, no reason to believe Kor is immortal just because he can live for really long. He's not human, so he isn't necessarily restricted to human lifespans. That said, he lived for far longer than just "hundreds of years", at least if we're to believe that the "dark leader" the Oracle referred to was indeed Kor and not someone else.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing! I purposely did not talk about Mar because that's whole complete different subject. True, Kor did chase Mar through time hence the phrase "you can't hide from be boy". Like I mentioned, Kor's presence at the rift gate wasn't really explained, it just left room for speculating. During the first time loop, Jak going to the future, Kor had no idea who old Jak was. Now in the second time loop, the one in which Onin predicted old Jak, Kor found out who Jak was. The way he was talking to him "It's you Jak!" makes it seem like he found out about this in this second time loop. So if Kor was chasing after Mar through the rift gate in Jak 2, sure we can say he was looking for Mar. If so, Kor later ended in a future where Haven City was founded, later to realise that Mar founded the city and hid the precursor stone. After all, Mar mysteriously died, meaning Kor wasn't involved in his death. Like you said, he goes through the rift gate trying to look for him, ends up in a future where Haven exists but with Mar dead.

@GavleProdxtions

5 жыл бұрын

But Jak is Mar, i'm confused. Mar had to have originated and founded haven city then seen a potential threat or a flaw and needed to go back in time to fix it so he found his young self and sent him even farther into the past to grow up? Where Mar would then die but because he basically duplicated himself he lives on to fulfill his destiny? It's like deja vu with Denzel Washington.

Funny enough just day before yesterday I found myself thinking about that time travel thing in Jak 2 and boy did my head hurt. So good to know I'm not the only one who get a headache because of thinking that too much. But my conclusion was pretty much the same than yours but you explained it better than me and more clearly. Thanks. And thank you of this great channel. I like your videos. It's fun to watch videos about my favorite games, like Sly Cooper-, Jak & Daxter- and Ratchet & Clank- series, from the guy who seems to be as excited about those games as I am.

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the support!

I know this video is roughly 2-years old but I thought I'd bring it up. There I believe is a type of time travel that's not used that much in any media. And that is if someone (in this case we'll say Jak & Daxter) was sent to the future, but they still affect the time after they already left. As if they never left in the 1st place. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense (I can see why this version is barely used) but it's how I've thought of the whole Mar thing with Jak. But yes I agree with what you said and also about the time loop.

been waiting for a vid like this for a while glad to see a break down of it :D

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed!

My brain does not hurt that much... it makes sense in a way. I watch too much doctor who.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Ohh, what a relief XD

@Robotik_X

7 жыл бұрын

My G

From what I gathered, Haven City is the future of The Precursor Legacy's (Jak 1) world. So in the beginning of Jak 2, they are sent to the future. However it turns out that Jak was actually originally from Haven City and sent back to the past, thus making the events of TPL take place in the past, and in the beginning of Jak 2 he was actually returned to his present. As for whether Jak is the Mar, or just an ancestor by the name of Mar, it's not exactly made clear. Ashelin makes a comment along the lines of "Wait a minute, Jak is Mar? The Mar?" which would indicate that he is Mar, but then the series ended before they could do anything to confirm or deny that. I personally like to think he is the actual Mar of legend.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

1. Correct 2. I will make a video talking about Mar, I purposely did not talk about him. All I'm going to say, I believe that Jak IS NOT Mar. There was a huge debate in the past.

@JustALilBrit

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI Mar story is very interesting. But I want to hear about it. Maybe jak could be the next person who become the next mar. so much questions... Like... Who jak mother? Will jak take his father place and become king? Why jak so good master every ego powers? We need jak 4! I really hope that one day that dream will become reality.

@icen5336

7 жыл бұрын

he wouldnt be going to his exact present cause little jak is there as a child, so is the time loop the exchange of old jak for little jal in each loop?

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I know, so many interesting stuff to cover :D

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Old Jak and Samos time travel to Haven City, where they have to go through the same thing over and over. So yes, young Jak is sent to Sandover, grows up and goes to Haven rinse and repeat.

Jak 2 has most confusing storyline only losing to BioShock Infinite

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Tell me about it.

Another theory could be that Jak 2 could could be the first loop essentially In the future young Jak is born. As Jak 3 explains he is brought up in Haven city to be a weapon. The metal head war still happens, but without adult Jak showing up, as he doesn't exist in this time. The baron gets the last precursor egg and without adult Jak to stop him, he successfully detonates it. Onin could see that if Jak grew up, he could beat Kor and the Baron, thus saving everyone. She tells the underground this and in a last ditch effort they send Jak and their leader, Samos, to the past. Kor sees them escape and jumps into the rift gate, and while he does see our Jak, he is swiftly shot to the future again. From there Jak & Daxter 1 and 2 happen. By the end however, Samos remembers that to keep time from paradoxing, they need to send young Jak and young Samos to the past. This would explain how the loop was created without causing a paradox.

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Ahh nice theory!

These videos are really cool! You are also close on getting 10 thousand subscribers! I would love to see more theories on Jak and daxter or sly cooper. I remember getting Jak and daxter when it first came out and I never finished the first game but I have beat 2 and 3.It would also be interesting if you played through Jak and daxter or something like that. And I would like to se a theory on the mar or something to do with the mar because it always interested me. Hope you get 10 thousand soon and keep making videos :D

@SlashySkeleton9

7 жыл бұрын

And after watching this video I know more about the story xD I never new much about it but thanks

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed and thanks a lot for the support! I will definitely talk about Mar and even the Precursors eventually, pretty interesting stuff! As for let's plays, that is currently not my focus :/

The fact that NaughtyDog messed with such a messy time travel loop is a testament to how good this story is. In my opinion.

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Oh not often I hear this :O

@WombatXBT

4 жыл бұрын

@@VtnVivi The time loop has always been a favorite part of the game for me, it brought up so many questions as a kid when I first played.

as daxter said: " the more you think about it the more it hurts the head" :) btw I aprecciate the work and time you spent doing this! Congratz!

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed video thank you!

I don’t know if anyone has ever mentioned it but I like how Jak used to look in the first game instead of the last two I think they should have kept him the same except clothing differences and I thought keeping him mute made him more unique and relatable!

I think the pre set coordinates were for Jaks birthday. Remember he's been in prison for 2 years when we first see young Jak, who has just started walking.

I never saw it like this. Since time travel is (supposedly) pure fiction, there are several rules it can abide by. Time loops can work in different ways, and I prefer this: important events in history, events that are needed to make the future happen, MUST take place. Even if time travel is involved, and past is altered, those important events will happen anyway, maybe differently, but will still find a way to happen. The way I saw it, is that metalheads invaded NORMALLY (no time travel), Haven City got built, young Jak was born, sent into the past to train, to then return. Kor SOMEHOW finds out about Onin's plan, and finds a way to get to the past, to stop the it. He ALMOST succeeds, but Jak uses the rift rider anyway. However, Jak then gets captured by Praxis, who was tipped off. That is where Kor succeeds. Jak is captured, and altered. Now, there is no adult Jak to fight Kor (with whatever superpowers the precursor stone offered), and young Jak is obviously too young to stop him also. HOWEVER, the IMPORTANT EVENT of YOUNG JAK AND SAMUS TRAVELING TO THE PAST, still happens. The events of Jak 1 happen after this time loop already happened, at least once. Also, I believe Kor stayed in the past, and got old by living the 300 years, waiting. What is important to remember, however, is that the final product is not necessarily what was planned form the start. If you replay Jak 2 and 3 several times, you notice ideas and dialogues that hint at many other things, but lead nowhere. It should be obvious that Naughty Dog had grander plans for Jak and Daxter, and some of their ideas ended up scrapped. It is entirely possible that the plot of Jak II still has pieces of a previous draft of story from Naughty Dog's writers. That was a lot of text, wasn't it?

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Very interesting stuff you got there. The metal head war always happened, the invasion always happened anyway. Kor existed somewhere during the times of Sandover village, he was hiding we can say. The Kor we saw was simply from the future, trying to see if what Onin said was true. Kor was an ancient enemy to the precursors, so Kor starting everything from Sandover village is not necessarily true. He did send some metal heads, all that did is slightly alter the future in a way which wouldn't really ruin his plan. Let's just say he added more metal heads into the past, that's simply how I see it. The fact that he said ''you can't hide from me boy'' tells us that he was looking for someone, Jak. If Kor had stayed in the past, that means there would be two versions of him if we go with the idea that he existed 300 years ago, which he did if we go with the metal heads war. About what you said, the loop happening at least once, perhaps yes. The first loop happened without Kor looking into the past. For the second time, Onin predicts and Kor peaks into the past by also slightly changing the future.

I'm a couple of years late on this, but I've been replaying the games recently, did some research and I'm pretty sure I get the time travel aspect of the game now. I'm also including excerpts from a Wiki on the matter. From what I understand, Jak and the gang are in what we call a Causal Loop (not just a time loop). It's a loop in which a sequence of events is among the causes of another event, which is in turn among the causes of the first-mentioned event. So opening the Rift Portal in Jak 1 unleashed the Metal Heads in the world, which therefore caused the Second Metal Head War. But without the 2nd Metal Head War, Young Jak would have never been sent into the past, because he wouldn't have needed to grow up in order to fight Metal Kor. This phenomenon is also called predestination paradox, which means a time loop in which a time traveler who has gone into the past causes an event that ultimately causes the original future version of the person to go back into the past. Simply put : - 2nd Metal Head War leads to Jak being sent into the past - Jak being sent into the past leads to 2nd Metal Head Wars This is supposed to mess up your brain because the origins of Causal Loops are unknown. A similar example is given in Doctor Who, in which of a time-traveler who copies Beethoven's music from the future and publishes it in Beethoven's time in Beethoven's name. Maybe there is a timeline in which the 2nd Metal Head War happened without the Rift Rider and maybe there is a timeline in which Young Jak was sent into the past without the help of Older Jak, but we can't know for sure. Nonetheless, if this timeline happened, it disappears as soon as the Causal Loop is created. Because from now on, the Metal Heads invades earth following the opening of the Rift Rider and Young Jak is sent into the past with the help of Older Jak. Go read on Causal Loops. It's super interesting.

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Yep that's exactly how I'd NOW describe it :)

I still got this game. I like it when young jak goes to the past. And old jak stays

All this time stuff actually makes sense. What's confusing is why Jak was pumped with dark eco. And why we never see a young Keira. Anyway, after the time loop had happened multiple times, I think Kor bribed the Baron to immediately inject Jak with Dark Eco because Older Jak kept beating him using the Precursor Stone. He assumed that he would easily kill Jak and get the Stone. However, a few pea shooters from Sig , Krew, and Torn somehow stopped him lol

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Yep time travel, my brain hurts. Onin played a part in this, telling Erol of Jak's special abilites.

@perrytheplatypus2001

6 жыл бұрын

We don't see young Keria because she was born in Sandover village, Jak was born in the future in the city and when he and young Samos get sent back Jak lives like a normal child and Samos meets someone and those two have a baby and that baby is Keira. So while Jak and Samos *do* belong in the future, Keira and Daxter are actually from the past

This was pretty much exactly how I've been rationalizing all this in my head for the past 14 years or so. It made sense when I first played it, and I'm glad you cleared it up for everyone else that kept asking dumb questions about why they didn't see kid Jak wandering around in Jak III, or dumb questions about why there aren't a million Jaks wandering around. There's like nothing to disagree with you with, you explained what happened. There's nothing to debate LOL.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Glad you found the video useful :)

Another thing to add to "Destiny" is that it was Keira who built the time vehicle in the first place, for her past self to discover with Jak, and then in Haven, over the course of roughly 2 and a half years, assemble it back together from her memory/recollection of it. Same thing with all of Mar's creations in Jak 3 for Jak to explore and discover. The whole concept isn't entirely new, Back To The Future set the standard for having a sequence of events always play out and to NEVER disturb those sequences, or else you'd just fade from existence or the fabric of time would rip open and all existence would cease.

It's great to see people still enjoy these games and still play them hopefully that will give naughty dog the idea to make the 4th one

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I feel like ND has no more interest these days I don't know... they're much focused on more matured themed games.

you forgot in Daxter after the last boss fight he says my master will be waiting outside, and who was waiting out there with young jak at the start of jak 2 after you escape? Kor

There was a glitch in Jak 2 (PS2) where you could enter Sandover village. You had to go to scene selection > First scene > take out the disk > put it back in. I always though it was a cool "hack". Yeah the time travel always was confusing but thanks for attempting to clarify.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I've heard that glitch before :O. Glad you enjoyed the vid!

I had no clue how this 100% worked so thank you XD

JESUS CHRIST MY HEAD

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Boom!

@bobbyshewan4229

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI That doesn't help LOL

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Haha! Trust me, I was as confused as you are right now.

@sciencetheory2818

6 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI loop is very simple so thanks

@OtterloopB

6 жыл бұрын

Would you kindly not use Christ's Name in vain? It's sinful and offensive. Thank you.

I like how Jak has an Uncle 300 years ago...

Very interesting explanation. Would you ever consider tackling the whole "Is Jak part of the Mar family, or THE Mar that built Haven City" theory? I've been going around the Internet and it seems a lot of people are confused about it. As much as I love Jak 3, it did give me a little trouble figuring that out due to some seemingly conflicting statements in game.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Ohhhh the whole ''Is Jak Mar'' thing? Absolutely ;) Yes, many are still confused.

Your little loop diagram is always how I thought it worked too. Jak was always going to be from the future, young and old Jak are always supposed to switch places.

Great video. I just love Jak and Daxter

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks :D

Jak 2 follows the Novac Self Consistency principle. You can’t change anything because it’s already happened. Jak simply used time travel to be able to occupy two spaces at once. His younger self was able to open the tomb and the last precursor egg while his older darker self was able to provide the child self the protection he needed.

Every video i see with time travel in it, ALWAYS destroys my brain!😨

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

I know the feeling :P

Id think its worth mentioning Kor going through the rift gate unleashes the metal heads into the world to begin with potentially, as we see literally dozens fly through along with Kor. Implying this could have been the beginning of the bad things to come and to force the people of Jak 1 to evolve and adapt faster and more efficient.

looking back on this jak himself could become the mar who founded haven city but he wouldn't be his ancestor,he could go back in time during the past at some point,and he could meet a young clan of warriors,maybe adopts them and they ironically could turn out to be actually be his biological ancestors,and they founded house of mar,after jak(mar)himself had vanished/die(in reality he could have returned back to the future near the end of jak 3)

Kor definitely does not have the power to create his own universes...

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Create a universe as in altering the past and creating a new future.

for those who didn't understand, conclusion = 🍌

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Banana

Samos' family is weird. If Keira is his daughter, biologically speaking, it means she was born after young Samos was sent back to the past with Jak, which means if he was like 3 or 4, that she was about 11 or 12 in the events of TPL since Jak is 15, plus they must have been raised together so they were more like brother and sister ? And the mother is inexistant (are they any mothers in the games tho ?) :0

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

I always wonder about the mother.

@Lost.Reaper

Жыл бұрын

No its simply that Keira and even Daxter were not born in the future. Young Samos grew into Old Samos back at what was Sandover village but the problem is we keep assuming they went back to Sandover Village when in reality they went a bit farther back in time until Sandover village was created and everybody was born and grew up.

Since kor is finaly defeated, he cant travel to the past anymore, hence the story continues

What I can't understand is : The precursor statue in Mar's tomb said that "eons ago" they fought with Hora-Quan (Metalheads) and lost the battle. What I can't understand is when did they fight if precursor have been disappeared before Jak 1 events and there aren't metal heads in Jak 1?

@VtnVivi

3 жыл бұрын

The battle with Hora-Quan could've happened elsewhere in the universe at that point no?

I didn't know that thanks for the story. About jak and green samos

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

No problem!

I watched your video, and I think you may have overthought this a bit. Let me give you an alternative theory. We are working on the assumption that the Kor that came through the rift gate was coming BACK from Haven City. What if, instead he were coming from the future. Remember in Jak 3, the Precursors mention that they had been at war with the Hora-quan (Metal Heads) for centuries, always being equally matched. What if, instead of Kor coming from the future, he came from the past, hoping to find a world where the Precursors were no more. He hoped that he could let time work it's magic and find that the Precursors were already gone and he could easily take over the world. He comes through the rift and notices Jak freaking out in the rift. When Jak goes through the rift he is amused because he realizes that he will be still be around at whatever point in time Jak came to in and could kill him there. Kor then proceeds to take over the world with ease. He then has an iron clad grip on the world for hundreds of years until Mar comes around. He was able to unite the people to the point where they had a fighting chance against him. Kor engages humanity again, but finds himself in an endless stalemate. Remember Baron Praxis' words that he had been involved in at least one other war with the Metal Heads before. Kor realizes that Praxis is no match, but learns through his mole in Praxis' forces, Kaeden, that there is a band of underground fighters who, through the help of Onin, are looking for the heir to the throne of Mar. Kor realizes that the heir would be capable of destroying him. He infiltrates the Underground as an old man where he finds the boy. He immediately recognizes the Seal of the House of Mar and knows that he is the heir. He learns through Onin, now an ally of his, that the boy it is the boy's destiny to find the last remaining Precursor egg and use it's power to destroy the Metal Heads. He believes that he can use the power of the last Precursor egg to become even stronger and finally end this stalemate with the humans. What he didn't plan on though, was that the rift rider he ignored several hundred years earlier would arrive at that exact point in time and Jak would rise up the ranks of Underground to the point of becoming an actual threat to him. He also learns from Onin that Jak is the heir to the house of Mar. He then puts two and two together and realizes that the kid was sent back in time to protect him from Kor, but doesn't know the exact details of how it happened. He allows Jak to continue to assist in finding the Precursor egg believing that he can still easily take care of him when the time comes. However, Jak proves to be too much for Kor and Kor dies in their final battle. The kid is then sent back in time, creating the time loop, so that he might come back and do what he did as an adult. Either that, or Naughty Dog really didn't think their time travel through very well.

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing all that, enjoyed reading! And yes, ND and their time travel, they really nailed that one...

This time loop stuff might be better served on a graph with an x-axis being time, left being the past and right being the future, and showing the paths of all of the characters.

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

True, but what if people found that even more confusing?

Nice one keep going!

@VtnVivi

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks 🔥

So this is the way I see it. There are two timelines. Mar built Haven City. Damas is a descendant of Mar, and named Jak after Mar. Young Jak was threatened by Kor to find the tomb of Mar and get the last precursor stone, but Kor could not be defeated and Samos left with Jak via a rift gate into the past. Damas loses Jak. When Jak is 15, they rebuild the rift gate to go back to the present. Now that Jak is grown, he can face Kor. But impatience has made Kor go back in time for another Jak, thus creating multiple timelines. When Kor is defeated, it could be assumed that young Jak went back in time and found Damas. But since the present doesn't become altered, young Jak never reunited with his father, so we can assume that Jak is where he is now, in Haven, as a result of staying there with Samos. In the third game, Jak discovers his father is Damas and that he is of the house of Mar. In this way, everything comes full circle, and the only thing that's really very iffy is where young Jak goes. If Kor is defeated, there's no reason for him to go back to Sandover where teen Jak was, unless he just grows up in that timeline. In that case, he'd be dead and Jak wouldn't exist in the present. So he has to go back to his own timeline he was pulled from so as not to disrupt the cycle. So there is an instance of present, past, and deep past time travel.

@SupportGamin2024

7 ай бұрын

tells young jak goes to Sandover villiage with young Samos to start the events of precursor legacy,there aren't two Jaks,it's always the same one we know

I think you're just smoked out. Lol good explanation and good video.

if the kor that appeared out of the rift gate,is a future kor,then where did the past kor(after the metal heads,invaded sandover)come from?

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Hmm....It's possible future Kor jump started the invasion.

Jak 2 reminds me of samurai jack

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Oh!

@FreakyStyleytobby

4 жыл бұрын

Jak 2 reminds me of jack nicholson

Good video broski

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks boi!

Great video

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks glad you enjoyed :D

Bro how did they pick up the door that had all the power cells and place it on the end of the bridge ? Never understood that part in the open scene in Jak 2.

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

They found the last rift gate inside that door along with the rift rider. As for how they took the rift gate to the lab, well I say Daxter did it...

@YoungCel4Life

6 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI Thanks for the response Im playing the series over again.

I'd say the precursors couldn't defeat kor so they threw him into a rift gate and locked him in there along with the other metalheads. when Jak and everyone open the rift gate, they release Kor and everyone else gets shot through time to the future. Kor the uses Baron Praxis to remove Mar's bloodline from rule and capture young Jak as a way of keeping a pure Jak (descendant of mar) while getting the older Jak to do his bidding and get the last precursor egg.

Wasn't it said somewhere that Kor and his army have chased Mar through time and space to get the last Precursor egg?

How does this explain Kiera’s existence is she actually Samos daughter or adopted like jak , plus didn’t jak have an uncle in jak 1 ?

Sand over village is haven city in the future and maybe there are metal heads because kor looked through the past and all the metal heads went through? Idk this is my theory

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Something like that yes! I didn't talk about Mar, but perhaps Kor was looking for Mar through time. By doing so, the metal heads destroyed Sandover. Mar hid in a timeline where he founded Haven City. I will dive deeper into this :)

@stiffmeister3018

5 жыл бұрын

When the rift gate got opened, the metal heads destroyed sandover village

So would there be 2 hearts of mar in haven city and 2 precursor artifacts during Jak 2? I mean I doubt they were destroyed in that crash. Meaning there’s only 1 of them each during Jak 3 and Jak X.

@tyx8898

5 жыл бұрын

Meaning Jak could possibly go back in time again, right? He could become Mar

I think the Kor in the beginning is the same one you meet in the future just about 18 or so years younger. and I think he was trying to chase Jak and Samos through the time gate the first time they went back to the past but ended up in the time gate we see in the intro cut scene.

@Yashahiro_

5 жыл бұрын

And then when you ran into him he gets flown back somewhere in Time

@SupportGamin2024

5 жыл бұрын

the thing is it still makes no sense because kor gets killed by future jak and then he sends young jak and young samos back into the past,so kor appearing in the rift gate when jak later opens the rift gate alive wouldn't make sense.

hopefully if they ever make a jak 4 it will be in the time period where mar is around, that way wed have the full timeline and wont have to guess and make theories anymore

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Hehe tell me about it!

I have a tough question. Hypothetically speaking. What would happen if on one of the many repeating loops that Jak knew enough to not open the gate to let the metal heads destroy the world and stayed in the past? What would happen?

@VtnVivi

2 жыл бұрын

Hmm....

@VongolaXZax

Жыл бұрын

Hmmmm indeed

Do you have a video about Jak's uncle in Sandover Village? It's kinda weird to think of him as Damas' brother.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Not yet :P

It's not a time loop, from what I remember it's all Novikov, no new timelines made, Jak get's sent to the past, grows up, goes to the future, defeats yer mano, sends himself back and carries on. The term timeloop kinda implies a never ending cycle....

My brain might be boggling abit but the only way i can see Jak being Mar and not just named after him (If thats what they want to go for) is: 1) Everything takes place from J1 to J3. Jak sends his young self back to the past as it originally is suppose to happen. 2) Since meeting his older self (Meaning that this meeting of young and old Jak had a lasting effect on them both) Young Jak actually remembers alot more of what happens in the future. 3) This Young Jak now keeps his original name (Mar) and decides that because he now knows more about what is to come he decides this time to not go back to the past (Pre maturely like ending of J1 or when he is ready as an older Jak) and prepares for the future events. 4) Young Jak now is able to prepare, train, and build Haven City/The Shield and much more and make the legendary name for himself in the future. You can tie it back in as not a branching path/Alt reality but as Younger Jak setting the foundation for the future without unraveling time itself since we clearly see that you can have multiple of someone from different times in one place. Doesn't break any Time laws the game places (from what i can understand) and effectively establishes Jak as Mar.

@VtnVivi

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting way of putting it!

Well, I'm lost so I think I'll have to just watch the video again

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I think that'll help :P

I gotta say, this theory matches the plot of the Trilogy. This should be official for Jak and Daxter.

But if jak is mar and mar made haven city then that means when kor went through the rift gate kor who went in the past seen jak(mar) build the city to protect the last precuser egg. Or am I looking too much into it

@VtnVivi

3 жыл бұрын

There's no such thing as looking too much into it when it comes to time travel ;)

jak send his himself in the past, alright, that's the loops. But who did send jak on the first loop ? Imo mar has to do something in the first loop

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

Hmm....Time travel hurts my brain.

I need to watch this again later when I'm not stoned

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

Okidoki.

This honestly don't confuse me khor came from the past but at some point went to the futer (I butchered that I know) and found sand over village and changed the past at this point the cycle has already started.

So how did young Jak get to Haven city in the first place if he was born in the past in Sandover village?

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Jak was born in Haven City, he was taken to Sandover village.

It's interesting if Jak is Mar, because it would mean that he'd spend his later years in life, still in the past, setting up relics foundations and devices that he'd know would be broken by his younger self, or put through turmoil and peril. It's like making something you know will be destroyed.

when jak was young he was stolen by vegar into haven city and that was tiny jak then the jak you were playing as goes into the future and at the end sends the boy to the jak and the precursor legacy village

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

I got to get back to finish the games or at least watching the cutscenes. Jak 2 was hard but interesting. Must be a pretty big Paradox to count on going back and time in the future and past. Good thing theories like that don't require a lot of math. I suck at math.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

It's a time loop that keeps repeating itself . If the ones destined change that, it will cause a paradox.

Wow, that explains a lot! that must be the most confusing timeline video since The Legend of Zelda timelines. Although what about Jak 3 where Jak went with the Precursors at the end of the game, but he didn't went with them, doesn't that change it up a bit, I mean timeline wise? Sorry if this hurts your brain.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

I will keep that Jak 3 ending for the Mar video ;)

@tdfern1

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI Sweet (;

Two questions: WHY again did Jak bring the precursor stone into Kor's cave? Second, why did Kor have an ACTIVE rift gate waiting for Jak? Yes, I get that Onin knew Jak would defeat him, whereas Kor did not know that. So, I get that Jak and crew would need to send their younger selves into the past. But, why did KOR have it on? Maybe to lure Keira, Bruder, Jak and Samos into his planned ambush? Just trying to make sense.

I see Kor’s first appearance through the Rift Gate as being the true origin point of the time loop. From what we know, the Metal Heads wiped out Precursor civilization and moved on, likely losing access to the Rift Gate on Jak’s planet. After Jak activates the Rift Gate in Jak II, Kor finally regains access to Jak’s world and creates the future we see in Jak II. My theory is that the original timeline before Jak activates the Rift Gate for the first time is that Jak is actually just a boy born in the past to unknown parents and the Explorer actually is his uncle. After the events of the Precursor Legacy and the activation of the Rift Gate he creates a new timeline where Jak is a boy named Mar born in the future who goes back in time to become the Jak we see in The Precursor Legacy and then that “uncle” turns into an adopted uncle instead. So Jak was simultaneously born in Sandover Village AND Haven City. He’s just an anomaly in the time-stream in my eyes. Or maybe Naughty Dog had some oversights because time travel storylines are really difficult to write in a way that avoids all plot-holes… lol

This is what I think about what Samos says at the beginning of Jak 2, "So this is how it happened." He doesn't say it because he "forgets" so to speak. He says it because he now realizes that this is how himself and older Jak come to arrive in Haven City. I'm sure when he was younger, before himself and young Jak left to the past he always questioned how/when his old self and older Jak arrived in Haven City. That's my opinion on why he said it anyways.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Good way to put it!

What I thought about after beating the trilogy was if Mar founded haven city, and jaks real name is mar. Yet he was born way after the founding of haven city. Is jak the founder?

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly the question we ask ourselves.

What if the essence of the precursor stone is inside Jak that's why the kor we saw came out of the rift saying "you can't hide from me boy" maybe when when young Jak touched the stone some of it's energy went in him which is why Jak can channel so much Eco without any harmful side effects well sort of. That's my explanation.

Could it be possible for the loop to be broken?

I would make a really long comment explaining my own thoughts but I don't think it'll matter though vtnvivi would be interested in it

@VtnVivi

4 жыл бұрын

I read comments, so go on :)

@slayerofdarknssdmt9697

4 жыл бұрын

@@VtnVivi so Mar pre rift fring and Jak is post rift ring. Damos works as a servant for Jak who is Mar at this point, Jak gives damos leadership over the city. wile in the city damos has Mar, naming his son after his associate. praxis later boots him out into the waste land, thinking he's not strong enough to deal with the medal heads. damos makes a new city called spargus. damos before leaving hides his son, in this organization called the underground. the medal heads attack dead town, which they over ran because praxis pulled back into the city. in a attempt for revenge he attack's the medal head nest, and fails. before leaving kor strikes a deal with praxis, if he gives him shipments of eco then kor would lower his attack's on the city. (my theory is that kor was kor before then got corrupted by the dark makers he then goes on to experiment with dark eco eventualy making the medal heads which would probably be why they look so much like dark makers so for the entire time Mar/Jak was building the city he was making the medal head army) At this point praxis tries to find other ways of destroying the medal heads, so he starts the dark warrior program. a wile goes by and Jak is captured. Jak is experimented on for 2 years, but because of his special gift with controlling ecos he doesn't die but looses his ability or at least most of it. daxter breaks him out and they join the underground, with kor (in disguise) who has Mar. Jak then finds an oricol (a precursor) to help him control his powers that he got from the experiments. Jak then becomes mercenary with the help of krew and sig, who is damos's eyes and ears in haven city. Jak finds samos's hut and realizes he is in the future, samos is the leader of the underground but it's him in the past. Jak find Kira as well who is remaking the machine that they used to get there, but she needs 3 artifacts to finish it. Jak later finds Mar/jaks tomb, which they then get access to the precursor stone, praxis then steals the stone and makes a bomb (2) as well as arresting jaks friends. Jak breaks them out, and finds his samos. then kor gets Jak to destroy the eco sheild, framing it as a drill site for eco. Jak finds 2 of the artifacts for Kira. then finds out that the stone will destroy everything if cracked. krew constructs the bombs and throws one in the latest shipment of eco, Jak destroys the bomb killing krew. Jak then heads over to praxis who has the other bomb, kor confronts Jak and praxis who reveals himself to be the medal head leader. kor kills praxis, and Jak and daxter steal the stone. they then use the stone to power up the device that Jak/Mar built, and head into the nest. kor tells jak that Mar is him and that he needs him to open the precursor stone, because Jak is tainted and Mar isn't. after a fight with kor Jak finds the final artifact for Kira, the rift ring and send Mar and "new" samos through the portal. Mar then goes through the events of Jak and daxter, and then finds the rift ring. Kira sets up the ring and kor appears through it saying "you cannot his from me boy", Mar in a attempt to save everyone he goes through the ring and kor follows him. Jak then gets captured, by praxis and is experimented on for 2 years. {repeat}.

@slayerofdarknssdmt9697

4 жыл бұрын

I would go into Jak 3 but for the sake of my thumbs it's probably up for later

Who was the green sage before Jak and Samos went to the past the first time? And what happened to him?

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

Hmm....I always stick to one time loop, where Samos leaves the life seed for his younger self in the future, rinse and repeat.

@SupportGamin2024

5 жыл бұрын

@@VtnVivi I actually made a full video on samos's story in chronological order,I haven't uploaded it yet,but I will eventually.

That picture of the time loop would be kinda confusing to someone who doesn't understand the timeline. It appears that you have 2 possible timelines, one where everything CONSTANTLY repeats, and one where it branches off to Jak 3. i would use a spiral, starting where Jak is born in Haven, sent to the past, grows up, sent to the future, defeats Kor, sends young self to the past, THEN branches off.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah my representation is probably not the best heheh. All I see is a constant loop with a part branching off like you said.

@Buffbud96

7 жыл бұрын

Meh, still a great video to help explain the confusing nature of time travel to people who are un-aware of the Jak timeline, unlike us pros *Fistbumb*

So, who is the MAR in the statues of Haven City?

Onin probably told the baron where jak would spawn and why jak would cause the metalheads to overrun the city. Baron tried to experiment with Jak in an attempt to make a weapon that will fight against Kor. Ashlin probably knew onin through torn and told the baron about Jak's arrival from the past. If you really think about it the baron actually prevented a loop in time through onin thus pumping jak with dark eco was necessary to prevent Kor from accessing the precursor stone at an early point in time. Because if the Metalhead leader found jak after the rift gate he would've still activated the stone.

@VtnVivi

5 жыл бұрын

Interesting take!

my comment was heard. its about time you explain this.

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

When did you make that comment? Must've been a looonnngg time ago :P

@nadeshiko2842

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI wait sorry. commented too soon. it was about the bootstrap paradox

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Ooohhhhh!!

love jak and Dexter I grew up with these games and I have the collection

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

Nice!

How could mar build haven city if he was born there when demos was the ruler of haven city?

How did Kor come into contact with young Jak? And why is he the one who's watching him?

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

Kor was watching after Jak due to his pure heart capable of activating the precursor egg, he had plans for him.

Its funny but Everytime I go back and replay the 3 games I imagine Im just playing through another time loop and everytime I beat jak 2 Im setting the stage for yet eventually another playthrough! :D

@VtnVivi

6 жыл бұрын

Heheh :P

The thing is Jak is Mar and their is a lot of talk about Mar and how he built so many things such as the precursor catacombs etc. Which means he goes back in time to build all of these things and dies shortly after which could explain why his armor was found there orrrr he could have just left it knowing that one day he will come across it again? So I never played the Jak games that much maybe beating the a total of 3-4 times each I was more of a Ratchet and Clank guy back then so i don't know all the great things mar did and im so confused so it would be cool if you made a video about how the whole mar thing works ill really appreciate it btw new subscriber love your vids

@VtnVivi

7 жыл бұрын

The great mystery of Mar, is Jak Mar? I don't think so. I purposely did not talk about him in this video, he's a whole complete different subject. Yes I will talk about it eventually :) Thanks for the support!

@SlashySkeleton9

7 жыл бұрын

mtn Dewd yeah very interesting things about the mar. I would like to see a Theory on it. It would be very likely that Jak is the mar because he is the hero back then and now.

@theygothype6398

7 жыл бұрын

VTNVIVI I don't know if you remember but i do because i just played Jak 3 not too long ago but i remember Damos, Jak's father, said find my son Mar before he died and in the end the crew is surprised when the precursors referred to Jak as Mar and also saying he has a lot of things to do so Im sure Jak is Mar the thing is Jak doesn't seem to be the type of person to build and do all of these things and just the whole true purpose of jak just makes it even more confusing

@notthebestartwork317

6 жыл бұрын

TheyGotHype Jak was named Mar by his father Damos because Mar is Jak’s grandfather. That’s what I think.

@GhostFan-ev4di

6 жыл бұрын

+Jaun Figueroa Mar was said to have existed years like 300 years before damas was born