I have an S50, a Dwarf, and over $10K in conventional astrophotography equipment. There is no question that the overall image quality is better with the full rig. But, I enjoy using the two smart scopes. Setting up a heavy EQ mount, leveling, balancing, polar alignment, calibrating the guiding, focusing, etc, is a pain. I won't even try it on a weeknight when I have to work the next day. The S50 can be set up easily in a few minutes. It allows me to image on nights when I otherwise cannot. Stacking and processing the images yourself yields much better images than the app. I think $500 is a bargain for this. My EQ mount alone costs more than 3x as much. When I am able to use my full rig, it produces great images. But, I find myself using the smart telescopes more often, and it allows more overall time to enjoy the hobby.

@gomcse

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. The s50 is amazing.

@cosmicinsane516

2 ай бұрын

This is 100% where they shine, ok quality with super convenience. I’ve just got a 5” newt on a cheap EQ mount but I won’t bother packing it up and going out on a weeknight, and if the weather is questionable at all on a weekend I won’t bother either. Lots of setup, packing, aligning, maybe collimating, just to not even get a clear sky. When all I have to do is get out of the car and get set up in 1 minute, the lower time investment would mean I’d spend lots more time out there in the field than I do now.

@billmurphypenguins3774

2 ай бұрын

good point, the more gear i have to set up the more reluctant i am to set up. And the wise gods always say the best scope is the one you use the most.

@svdaedalus

2 ай бұрын

Seems like S50 would make a good travel scope being all self contained, too.

@ciberdog6029

2 ай бұрын

I agree I find it also teaches me thing that will help with my big rig finding Targets is amazing.

Can only comment on the Seestar, but for £500 it punches well above its weight, and you are hardly paying a premium, it’s hard to put together anything comparable yourself for that price. Sure, it doesn’t perform as well as my 90mm guided triplet refractor/cooled camera on a heavy EQ mount, but it has the huge advantage that I can use it immediately when there is a break in the clouds. My big rig has been sat in the garage for months due to awful weather. I had a total window of about 1 hour clear sky this week spread over two nights, managed to image PonsBrooks with the Seestar whereas I would still have been setting up my big rig when the clouds returned. At the £500 price point I think they are a worthwhile introduction to the hobby for newbies, and for more seasoned practitioners a good way of doing some imaging when it just isn’t practical to set up a “proper” rig. The old adage “ your best scope is the one you use the most” rings true here. No reason not to early adopt at the £500 price point. Now the more expensive smart scopes, that’s a different story…

@jpbslayer

2 ай бұрын

THIS is the truth, the s50 is an awesome piece of hardware

@martynh5410

2 ай бұрын

I second this opinion!

@stevenickolls8016

2 ай бұрын

Really glad that I've held off buying any of these smart telescopes as the quality of the DSO images has proved to leave much to be desired and instead I'm slowly adding to my savings ready for a future date when I might buy a future but better model as Ed hopes may come out. I like the usefulness of the SeeStar etc for imaging the Moon and Sun in moments of opportunity but am fortuate to have already put to use a repurposed old Alt-Az mount (SkyWatcher Merlin from around 2012), spare ASI178MC and RedCat for solar and lunar imaging that more than matches the quality of the SeeStar and which too can be set up at a moment's notice. For me £500 is the best part of a year's savings in the hobby so it's not to be spent on a snap decision. To my way of thinking all the frenetic early adopters may encourage ZWO and others to make improved models down the line.

@wanderingbrummie

2 ай бұрын

@@stevenickolls8016you are right, the Seestar isn’t as good as a “ proper” rig in terms of image quality, but if you stack and process the subs yourself, rather than take the final output from the device, you can get some pretty pleasing results. And as I said, being up and running literally within a few minutes is something no traditional rig can match unless you are fortunate enough to have a permanent observatory. If I had to rely on my traditional rig I’d have no images at all from the past few months.

@bonesshed.

2 ай бұрын

I have ummed and arred about splashing out on a 'proper' rig but you're spot on. The cost, effort and time spent learning will not reward me fast enough. The SeeStar does that for me. For 500 quid, its a no brainer.

Thank you for the review. I have a Seestar and have some observations to share as a total amateur. 1. The battery is very user replaceable. It sits behind a door on the bottom held closed with a screw. 2. The Seestar is a bit hit and miss with a few things, but for the most part there is no need to adjust the level any more as it has an "auto level / Horizon function". But it does need to be able to have a good view of the sky as it uses several stars, compass, gyroscopes, view of the horizon to get level. Works well most of the time. 3. With it zooming in too far. There is a mosaic mode in the pipeline, so it should be able to stich together large objects, increasing the relative resolution/detail etc. 4. The Seestar is also good for watching wildlife remotely. No need to be cold/hot in a hide when in theory you can sit in your house, car, motorhome etc whilst capturing video or stills live onto a screen size of your choice. It can also be broadcast on the internet. There are lots more features not explained in the video and I cant type for ever :)

@neiltonks

2 ай бұрын

mosaic mode would be good.

This is a very apples and oranges, biased review. some comments: stacking; the Seestar has the option to save all separate frames. Stacking can be done in external programs like Siril. Even over multiple sessions. Same for processing and filtering. You cannot compare the present smart telescopes with true astrophotography setups that cost thousands of dollars. Nobody expects astrophotography or indeed Hubble or JWSL quality. The green background is caused by the internal filter, there are aftermarket products to install the best filters available. Can you take one the the devices in the back of Ed's room safely on your bicycle and cycle to a dark spot to start a short observation session before the clouds come in?

I've been an astronomer for nearly 60 years. I love my 12" Geoptik Dob with the Nexus DSC. I don't have the patience & inclination to set up a full A/P rig, and of course there's the price! I can see a great market for people like me, that love their visual work, but would like to dabble in A/P. The Seestar and/or Dwarf 11 are perfect for this. Beginners in astronomy would also find these scopes as a great incentive. Too many newbies buy scopes, attempt to use them to find any object. And apart from the Moon, they fail. The scope goes into a wardrobe and a budding astronomer goes to waste. At least these smart scopes are a lot more user friendly, and will yield results on the first night/day. In conclusion, Ed is correct in his thoughts, but I feel a little harsh in his conclusion. My two cents

@endautrestermes

2 ай бұрын

I think they will equally land into people's wardrobe once their wife will tell them that google image gets better result with less efforts. And since they haven't made any effort and invested any time in their newfind consumer's hobby, they will end up agreeing. To me, for newbies, this is just some disposable toys. For your use, I agree it's probably great. But the bigger picture, I have to agree with Ed : it's just more ejunk

@anata5127

2 ай бұрын

Get Hubble pictures. Sorted.

@starman3088

2 ай бұрын

I totally agree with you and I bought the Seestar for exactly the same reasons.

I agree that Smart Telescopes are exciting. I disagree that one shouldn’t buy them now. Two nights ago, I viewed 19 objects, 12 of which I could never really see on my 80mm refractor or 8” SCT in my Bortle 8 area. The $500 I spent for the scope was equal to one of my Delos lenses and one UHC filter. It was money VERY well spent. I agree that the products will get better and less expensive (less than $500 ? Really???) over time. I plan to happily upgrade when that happens. In the meantime, I will enjoy all of my equipment, including the SeeStar.

It's an interesting viewpoint Ed! As an avid early adopter I both agree and disagree :-) The Seestar, once you takes the raw images off the scope and stack/process them yourself, gives very solid results - even on more difficult targets from Tokyo (!). I've had a lot of fun processing its images, and its dualband filter for emission nebulae isn't bad! The small FOV is a compromise as well due to field rotation, although that gets much better once you mount the Seestar un equatorial mode (not officially supported and has its limitations, but it works - it does go back to what you said: wait for better smart scopes to come out). As you mention the onboard processing is indeed limited to a very simple unweighted stacking algorithm and effectively an autostretch. This can and will ve optimized, although how far can "autoprocessing" go in the short term is another question. And yes, after 15 minutes you won't see much improvement, since the next doubling in SNR will come after a further 45 minutes of imaging :-) But that's for astrophotography in general! By the way you dont really need the leveler anymore - the Seestar now has a three point alignment routine that takes care of misleveling. Although some people have issues with the TPA routine and still need the leveler. To me what is truly incredible with the Seestar is that I can plop it down, and 1 minute later I'm imaging. 5 minutes later I could clearly see the corkscrew structure of M27. From Tokyo. For $500. It's a unique experience. The best compliment on the Seestar I get in the comments of my videos is "It's AI generated images" or "It downloads the images from the Internet". Having seen the raw frames I know for a fact it's not true, but this kind of accusation is actually high praise. Main issues for me with the Seestar is the dithering every 5 frames that adds a lot of overhead, the poor tracking near zenith, and the high rejection rates of subframes. Most of those get fixed by using it in EQ mode (unsupported :-( ) and using 30s subframes. And yes, the landfill aspect. I'm worried about this too because even though the battery is replaceable, the tech will get obsolete... Oh, and I personally don't think smart telescopes will end up getting better results than traditional means - near equal, sure, but not better. Traditional means are also advancing at a fast pace! In a way, your waiting advice applies to some of the traditional gear too :-)

@briankotak403

2 ай бұрын

Totally agree with you Cuiv. I have only been in this hobby a couple of years but give me a go to mount, my refractor or SCT and a nice astro camera. I personally love the hands on approach (even though I use a ASIAir) and post processing my images! These new systems may be good to get even more interested in the hobby, but I don’t think they can ever produce better images than a more traditional approach. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦

@stinkyfungus

2 ай бұрын

This is a non elitist point of view. Thank you Cuiv. Yes, with 10k worth of gear, a night and a half a day of processing you can get a better image. Not all of us have the time or money to do that.

@martynh5410

2 ай бұрын

I agree with Cuiv. I love EAA and I like to see quick results, it’s so satisfying. Even though I have an 8” scope and camera, I’ve only attempted EAA or that plus some very quick post touch up to improve color, contrast, etc. I’m thinking of getting the s50 as it will be much easier to set up and start imaging than my big scope which always takes at least 30 minutes.

@stinkyfungus

2 ай бұрын

@martynh5410 I like to let the seestar "cook" while I fart around with visual on my 150mm mak or my 80mm F8 refractor. When I stop to give my "working eye" a break, I'll give the seestar a new target (usually something i simply can't see with a glass enhanced mk1 eyeball) and let it chew on that and get back to lookin' It has its place.

@user-sh8mg2bm8g

2 ай бұрын

I wish Ed had teamed up with Cuiv. Together they would have made this review. . .credible! (Go Lazy Geek😂!!)

What is it good at? Seeing tons of things I'll never see with my 9.25 SCT while having to squint through an eyepiece.

@astromatt75

Ай бұрын

Not really comparable

if everyone waits, there'll be no development. Vote for the future with your money. Agree with some items, disagree with others - comparing a $500 smart scope with a Tak priced at 4-5 times the price (once you add the extras needed to do imaging, camera, filters, dew heater, PC) is off the mark.

@AshA-ww8hc

2 ай бұрын

4-5 times? Think more 10-15 times..

@johnhoffer5429

2 ай бұрын

There junk and should be regulated to the trash bin

@Bridse.

2 ай бұрын

I’m with you Randy, we have a product that is reachable by many and opens their eyes. I don’t care if the magnification is bad, they plug it in and get something they feel proud about sharing. If they went down the rat hole of Astrophotography, it would be years before they could share something proudly.

@SpaceRocksandStardust

2 ай бұрын

@@Bridse.Agreed! How many people have been turned off the hobby by mass produced junk visual scopes? By big names too! At least these will give them a somewhat decent result!

@bonesshed.

2 ай бұрын

explain why @@johnhoffer5429

I have Bortle 4 skies. Through my £700 10" Dobsonian I cannot see the spiral structure of spiral galaxies. Through my £500 Seestar S50 I can see the spiral structure... with just one 10 second exposure.

@Talalpro_1

Ай бұрын

Human eyes are not sensitive bring a camera to ur 10 then talk

@JimJimJimJim99

Ай бұрын

@@Talalpro_1 What mount and camera do you suggest I get to allow me to image galaxies with my 10" Dobsonian?

@Andromeda.3178

Күн бұрын

⁠@@JimJimJimJim99DLSR will work. if you don’t have one on hand, you might as well buy a dedicated astronomy camera. You would have to take short exposures (0.5-1s) if it isn’t a go-to, but 250mm (10”) is like 25 times more light collection than the S50’s 50mm (2”). I do like the SeeStar though it is a really cool idea.

Ed, sir I watch your videos because of your expertise. But somehow you missed the mark on the S50 review. The Seestar images are so much more than the jpg it sends to your phone. With the option to download the fits files, and process them with your favorite astrophotography editing software, the images are so much better than that jpg. Even if you don't download all the sub images, just simply processing the jpg with your phone photo editor turns even the Horsehead Nebula into a nice image. So for $500 can you assemble a rig that does equally as good as the S50? Not a chance. I've owned an Evolution 9.25 SCT for almost a year. I love it. The number of things I've viewed with it since buying it is extremely slim compared to the number of objects I've seen and imaged with the Seestar since buying it in late January. With the Seestar, I've now photographed 77 of the 110 Messier objects, almost another hundred of the NGC, SH2, and other catalogs. I've even captured three supernovas, five comets, and three quasars, all with the S50. One of the quasars I captured is almost 10 billion light years away. Show me any $500 telescope where that is possible. Tell me the least expensive rig you own that will capture a quasar 10 billion light years away. I'm sure it's well above $500 and not as easy to set up. I can be imaging in about 2 minutes from the time I decide to take the S50 outside. How long does it take to move that Tak and setup? If you're going to compare the S50 to the Tak, let's discuss mobility, ease of use, etc.

@guitarchitectural

2 ай бұрын

if you have a site i would love to see your images! this is a really compelling option but naturally this review leaves me concerned. i'd happily pay double for a larger sensor with a wider FOV, so maybe i'll wait... but i would love to see the quality you can get with processing yourself

@sscheaper

Ай бұрын

Agree with your comment. Love Ed's videos and opinions, but he did miss the mark here. I have always been heavily against smart telescopes but the S50 offers incredible value per dollar. Nothing will perform as well at the 500 dollar price point. This thing would be a steal even at the 1000 dollar price point just based on ease of use alone. Dare I say - this is the best astronomical product to come out within the past 10, maybe even 20 years. The price simply cannot be beat!

I would not have started the story about the Seestar with "It's not that great". Sets a negative tone before understanding your POV. At $499 it's equivalent to the 60mm department store telescope from the 1960s. And factoring in inflation, it's about the same price. It's all about Electronically Assisted Astronomy, or as it is called; EAA. You will see more in a short stack of images, than anything visual through a small telescope in an urban location. I could not see M82 at all in my $10,000 refractor through a $400 premium eyepiece from my B9 location, but the Seestar captured it digitally in only a few minutes. Now to be fair, there are other smartscopes in the $3000 to $4000 range that do seem over-priced, but the little Seestar at $499 is a great value as a gateway telescope into the wonderful hobby of amateur astronomy.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Again, if we can all be a little patient and wait, these devices will only get better with time. Technology moves very fast in this arena.

@reginaldwilkins5112

2 ай бұрын

Wait means don't buy...not really a good way to encourage development to me...​@@edting

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

@@reginaldwilkins5112 Why do you want to pay for their R&D? Like you don't need to, this is a private market, the companies are going to develop this technology whether you pay for the R&D or not so like just save the money and wait until a $500 scope gets you three times as much.

@user-sh8mg2bm8g

2 ай бұрын

​@@edting sort of the "don't bother me with other,salient aspects, my thinking on this is done...approach😢"?!

Ed, I dont think they are meant to be compared to an actual rig…You cannot compare these devices like Seestar and Dwarf with a traditional rig at all. That isnt what they are meant to be. I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro. I have a big set up that I have spent WAY too much money on… and it is beautiful, and takes beautiful images. About 10k in, which is a lot for me! I bought a Dwarf 2 last year, just for fun, for 500 bucks… and it is fun! Hassle free! I did a head to head on the Heart Nebula, after post processing the Dwarf data it was a pretty good image, not as good as my 94 edph Sharpstar of course, but honestly there isnt a 9500 dollar difference… with the right processing they are quite powerful little devices considering the amount of money you arent spending on them! When I first got into astronomy I bought a Celestron 114 Astromaster, it was 300 bucks and probably the worst scope ever created!!! Spending 500 on a smart scope like this would have been a way better entrance into astro… companies like Celestron should be ashamed for putting out trash products like they do, how many people have been completely turned off of astronomy due to these horrible scopes??? Countless!!! I have not heard one bad word about these cheap smart scopes from any beginner, they love them and it makes them fall in love with astronomy… WIN WIN!

@conchobar

2 ай бұрын

I was hoping he would compare the images to his 8" Dob and his smartphone.

@Top_Weeb

2 ай бұрын

"I think they are geared as a ‘gateway drug’ into astro." That's exactly my problem with them. Looking through a screen is going to significantly dilute the experience. This thing isn't meant to compete with traditional astrophotography equipment, it's competing with regular telescopes. If you compare it to a similarly priced real telescope you'll find it to be severely lacking.

@Top_Weeb

2 ай бұрын

They will make the hobby worse overall. People don't know what they want. They're allured by pretty photos but once they get a telescope and see the universe with their own two eyes they'll realize what it's all about. If they start with this glorified cellphone app it's going to stunt their long-term interest in the hobby.

@SpaceRocksandStardust

2 ай бұрын

@@Top_Weeb I think it is filling a completely different niche, EAA… so neither traditional visual scopes nor astrophotography. It is a different category all together. A traditional scope cannot show you the detail in deep space objects that these devices are capable of capturing. I really think it is the dso category made popular by Hubble and JWST that the average consumer wants to see, not the fuzzy blobs that you get with a traditional scope. Again, I do not think these are at all geared towards anyone who is already established in astronomy or astrophotography. These are hassle free devices that anyone can use to see some of the amazing objects in the night sky.

@SpaceRocksandStardust

2 ай бұрын

@@Top_Weeb I think some will… but some will want more, some will take the next step and invest real money in good equipment. How much damage have the heavily marketed junk scopes from Celestron and other manufacturers done over the years to this hobby??? At least these devices do what they say can do. I think they are a fine way for the average person to get involved with astronomy. I know many who are using these devices for public outreach with great success and a great reaction from average folks! Dwarf Labs has given away countless units to those who are using them for public outreach, that is a phenomenal thing for a manufacturer to do! I dont see Astro Physics or Tak or even Skywatcher or Celestron doing things like this to engage people and bring them into the hobby. Kudos to them!

Ed, as you can tell by the comments to your video, you've completely missed the mark. HUGE kudos to ZWO for putting together a complete solution for viewing and photographing DSOs. For every person out there who wants to go through the steep and expensive learning curve for traditional scopes, then put their frankenstein assemblies in a closet, I'll bet there are dozens of people who simply want to view the stars. It's almost like you didn't really use it. You looked for silly nits like "E-waste" when users throw this away in favor of next gen solutions. Really Ed? What did you do with your last car? Please tell me you kept it.

@theoldman2821

2 ай бұрын

It was truly an embarrassing review. He just has some bug up his ass about these type of products and then he sets up a comparison between his 10,000 dollar rig and a 500 dollar one. Very flawed review.

The thing is, I don't care that the images aren't that great. I'm not an astrophotographer and am not trying to be. I spent $400 (pre-order) to very easily see things I would otherwise not be able to see. I hope someday I can get out in dark skies with a big dob, but it's not happening right now. The Seestar is really fun! Maybe if you've been involved with telescopes / astronomy / astrophotography for a long time, you're not impressed; and I'm sure the criticisms will help companies improve, but as an astronomy noob and regular customer, I love mine. And I'm excited to see where they go from here!

@gomcse

2 ай бұрын

Except that the images ARE great. I agree with you that the s50 is really fun. Fantastic tool at a miracle price.

@anata5127

2 ай бұрын

Correct! It is for people who have no experience in astrophotography or have no space to do so.

@anata5127

2 ай бұрын

@@gomcseGreat compared to what?

@cobaltchen119

2 ай бұрын

Well said. I have been attracted to watch the sky/astral objects from my middle school (30 years ago) and dreamed to have my telescope for 20 years after worked, but I never have one because living in an unban city plus shortage of personal time/space plus the size/weight of the devices limited the dream. Seestar released me, now I can go to the top of my apartment building everyday (if weather allowed) to get a picture of something I had only seen in website AND watch that part of sky by my eyes to imagine what it actually like. With Seestar I watched sky more frequency. That is why I really appreciate ZWO and similar companies who can target the customers like me.

Ed, how much was your Takahashi astrophotography setup? Was it more than $499?

@APRH305

2 ай бұрын

But one doesn't need a Tak FS-60C to get comparable images. A good 60mm ED doublet AND a guide camera can be had for $500. Getting a good mount at that budget will be a challenge though. Something like an used Celestron AS-GT can be had but it will be far bulkier (but much more useful at the same time.)

@hcm5467

2 ай бұрын

If I read you correctly once you ad a mount and an imaging camera you're definitely above 500$ at the cheapest.

@APRH305

2 ай бұрын

@@hcm5467 To squeeze within the $500 budget the mount will be one of the cheapest GOTO models (and to go with a cheaper OTA) and I really wouldn't recommend that. Going with the equipment I suggested before will end up somewhat above $500 but the components are higher quality and more versatile. Since everyone wants a strain wave mount one can get lucky with used but good GOTO GEM mounts for far less than when they were new.

@JedWhitten

2 ай бұрын

Ok so let's compare the seestar to your 60 mm doublet with guide scope and no mount since it's the same price. I'm willing to bet the seestar gets much better results.

@anata5127

2 ай бұрын

@@APRH305 AVX could be bought for 400-500.

For an old guy like me, flailing for 20 years with a Meade Newtonian and a Celestron refractor, I'm happy with my DwarfLab2 with its tiny, grainy images and frustrating operating system. At least I'm seeing things, in Bortle 7 suburban skies, the cloudy PNW, which has really increased my appreciation of what is up there! Must be my old-guy-novice limited expectations, not at all ambitious, but still fun at this stage. And I don't have any "aperature envy!"

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Hey I'm curious about what you said. Based on what I've seen, the Dwarf is a really weird product. I'm not alone in that assessment?

@artyombeilis9075

2 ай бұрын

@@edting depends... Unlike SeeStar it has much wider FOV for good and for worse. Of course SeeStar better product and it is killing Dwarf.

@bobmyers9008

2 ай бұрын

I love my Dwarf, it as a few growing pains, but the positives far, far out weigh any negatives. I will be shooting the eclipse with it and have taken to a bortle 2 area. It takes all of a couple of minutes to set up in astronomy mode. @@edting

@ronlouie830

2 ай бұрын

@@edting yes it's weird, but as I mentioned, fun for the limited expectations. It's like the first time I saw a prism in the optical path of a monocular, or the first time I used my little Meade Newtonian: not intuitive, making the ability to see anything at all surprising and delightful!

@Mudslinger821

2 ай бұрын

The portability of the dwarf is its ace in the hole, seestar gets you better images but I just returned from Japan (organized tour) a nd brought my dwarf in my carry on. Imaged on 3 clear nights under bottle 3-4, much better than my bottle 8-9 at home!!

Ed standing in room full of expensive gear saying Seestar is no good is like Jay Leno standing in his garage and saying my car is crap and I should wait until I can afford a few hundred grand.

@anata5127

2 ай бұрын

He is right. People who bought strain gear mounts 7-8 years ago, regretted.

@Icanhasautomaticcheeseburger

2 ай бұрын

​@@anata5127 There's an awful lot of dead LX200s out there, too.

@testboga5991

2 ай бұрын

That's completely wrong. The points he raises are just facts, not opinion influenced by high tech stuff. You just can't get the performance out of a small refractor that you can get out of a larger cheap reflector.

@cosmicinsane516

2 ай бұрын

@@testboga5991Yeah I mean just because it can’t perform as well as a bigger scope is no reason not to buy one. At $500 I could make incredible photos when I can’t even afford a decent camera for my reflector for the same price. Then I’d need a decent EQ mount better than my EQ-2. That’s the cost of 4 Seestar S50s. Sure that would do better but what’s the point? I’d have way way more fun with a $500 smart scope than I would with a $3000 traditional imaging setup. I still keep my reflector around for observing planets and for higher magnification views of the sun.

@user-hd9zg6gh4o

2 ай бұрын

Right a cheap Tak!

Life is short Ed. I have 5 friends here in Columbus, Ohio that have them. The results are always stunning. No issues. There will always be something better coming. Just like computers. The Seestar is more than ready right now.

I’m having fun with my Seestar, isn’t that what it’s all about, having fun? I’m in the process of selling thousands of $$’s of astro gear I’ve had for years, sitting in cases and boxes, Seestar is easy and fun.

Yes, my Seestar has limitations. But I also have a Celestron Nexstar 6 that sees a fraction of the Seestar's use. I realized I needed a Kia, not a Porshe. I can easily hop in the car with my son, Sagan, drive a few minutes with the Seestar and show him live images in seconds. The excitement of even having the app add clarity with each stacked image keeps him tuned in and asking questions. For me, that's a huge win. Finally, you're correct in that the on-device processing leaves a lot to be desired and the FoV is too narrow. But, I'm seeing users create fantastic mosaics in post and leveraging color correction to create impressive images. As good as a $5k rig for the guy who has a lot of time and money? Of course not. But what a wonderful and reasonably priced device to drive interest in astronomy.

Respectfully, there are quite a few things that can be improved on the Seestar, but the things you mention aren't it's major short comings in my experience. I have the feeling you haven't done much EAA/live stacking with something like SharpCap before, because the Seestar very much resembles that experience but in much more streamlined way: * the performance - the performance in my experience is identical to say a Redcat 50 paired with an ASI462MC (yes the redcat is a Petzval but for a sensor this small that won't matter). But what you get is a) cheaper and b) much more portable. You would need more glass to get better performance, that's just physics and we all know aperture fever and the downsides that come with that. * the color balance - every picture you show has the telltale messed up star colors of a duo narrowband filter. This happens on a conventional AP rig too if you use such a filter. It is a godsend if you live in a Bortle 7 area like me tough and I'm happy they included it out of the box. You can disable it for an unfiltered view. * Diminishing returns is a thing with all astrophotography, you need 4x the exposure to double the signal-to-noise-ration (the "feeling" of the noise). So quality improves very quickly from one minute to 4, to 16 minutes but then you need an hour to double SNR again and after that it's going to take a good chunk of the night. A watched kettle never boils and if you're live stacking (like I often do) patience tends to wear out after say 5 minutes, maybe 15. Again with only 50mm of aperture there's only so many photons it can catch. This is not something unique to the Seestar. * The postprocessing in the APP/device is intentionally limited, again to be able to have this near-live viewing. The math for for example pixel rejection or selecting the best sub isn't done for live stacking, simply because you have to start with the first sub and good pixel rejection algorithms or advanced normalization require looking at all the data at once, not as it comes in. And it takes a beefy machine (200W CPU with 16 cores in mine) the better part of an hour to run the data through pixinsight that the seestar has to do on-the-fly. That isn't going to change in any near future, especially with Moore's law slowing down. For some genuine problems with the Seestar I would mention: * the general QA (there's some lemons out there) and plastic gears * the use of open source software in violation of it's license (just as in ASIAir) * with 10s subs, you lose a lot of time due to the dithering in between each sub * life expectancy of the LiPo battery and it's performance in cold weather (should have been LiFePO4 IMHO) All in all, the best scope is the one you use most of the time, and my Seestar has been outside more than my big conventional AP rig or even my more lightweight EAA setup just because the weather doesn't allow for a 30-40 minute setup time.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for that. If you saw the whole video, my advice is to wait. These things aren't ready yet.

To be fair, there’s a huge price difference between Ed’s Tak imaging set up and a SeeStar 50. I’d expect there to be a difference in quality. Some people with only $500 to spend might find this one of two ways to do some basic (not perfect) Astrophotography.

I bought one last week and it’s fantastic. I highly recommend it. It’s worth way more to me than the $500 I paid for it. It’s so light weight and convenient and the setup is so quick. My only complaint is 1: too many cloudy days and 2: starlink satellites

I've been an amateur astronomer since 1975, performing several hundred star programs using some great optics. Lugging all this stuff around was a real chore, setting it up was a pain, and the investment was thousands of dollars. The first time a "point and shoot" telescope came on the market I bought one, for years to come I spent more time enjoying star gazing because it was easier to do it. I would tell my audiences that the best telescope to have is one you will use, not hide away in the closet because it's too much work to set up for an hour or two of viewing. I think the ZWO Seestar S50 is a good solution for anyone, new or advanced amateur, to enjoy astronomy. The setup is easy, weighs very little, and doesn't cost thousands to image the Sun, Deep Sky Objects, the Moon (a favorite with my audiences), etc. Looking in my equipment closet at $$$$$ of astronomy gear, I wish this scope was around when I started. Thumbs Up!

The Seestar has a small FOV but ZWO is actually working on a Mosaic mode.

I have four telescopes and I got a seestar s50 in January. The best telescope is the one you use and it's so easy to set up compared to my lx200 etc.. that it's the only one I've been using for the last 3 months. Ed is right, these will definitely get better over time but for $500, there's just nothing better at the moment. Also, it's such a great device to get beginners into the hobby and I can't stress that this is probably the best attribute of the Seestar.

That was a very thorough review! Thank you! I think it's helpful that people know what they are getting in this scope. I use mine as sort of a visual bridge between a telescope and an astrophotography set up. I can see details in my Bortle Class 6 sky I couldn't otherwise see very easily (with a scope I can transport and afford): shapes and details of galaxies, colors and details in planetary nebula, colors of stars in clusters, etc. And I can view a new object every 10-20 minutes! I can't afford a full astrophotography setup (and don't want to spend hours processing an image the next day). For $500, less than the cost of a TeleVue eyepiece or an Asiair Mini + Field Flattener, I can see things I couldn't easily see otherwise! Plus I have images to share with people the next day and get them interested and excited in the hobby. These scopes will get better, and if we support the companies with their products now, the companies will be around to put out improved projects in the future!

The simplicity and convenience is the big selling point. Plunk it down and turn it on and it does the rest. I can see the appeal, but I’ll take my Star Adventurer and mirrorless camera with lens any day.

@velkylev4217

2 ай бұрын

I think astronomy is not about simplicity, quite the opposite, smart telescopes make astronomy boring, I mean you don't do anything, just letting the thing do all the work , nothing to be proud about

@keithhanssen7413

2 ай бұрын

@@velkylev4217 I like to think some people haven’t entered the hobby because of high costs or because the technology was intimidating. This scope allows more people to pick up the hobby and spend some time outside under the stars. That has to be a good thing.

@newzerozeroone

2 ай бұрын

I can't wait for the "if it's not hard you haven't done the work" crowd to die out in this hobby. There's a reason training wheels exist. Want to get more people caring about dark skies and light pollution? You don't get that without things like the s50 or dwarf II. Every day people getting involved increases R&D, increases participation and makes advances happen faster. I have a goto mount, using a dslr being run by nina, being guided by phd2, all on a mini pc. How is this any different than that? Less modular, 1/3rd the price and 1/10th the weight. Very little learning curve, great for getting kids involved without complicated troubleshooting.

@antiquegeek

2 ай бұрын

I think for some people they are going to have to decide is astronomy (for them) about seeing a galaxy or the process of trying to see the galaxy. For many astrophotographers the process is a big part of the appeal yet for many ordinary folks astronomy is about seeing what wonders there are and if all they see is faint foggy smudges and monochrome misty haze they might never appreciate what they are actually looking at. Anything that gets us closer to an accessible universe, even if it is kind of "point and click" is a good thing. If one young family is saved from buying a cheap telescope on a toy mount with promises of huge magnification and they can actually see something that looks like what they expect we are making progress.

the S50 is definately FAR better than any other scope I've had for deep sky objects. Far from perfect yes but its enabled me to see things that I just couldn't see before which is after all the main point. Would I buy another smart scope ? No this one works and is easy to use. If I really wanted to take photography seriously I'd get a proper astro rig and build it up round my SCT - a smart photography back for the SCT would definately be worth waiting for. And yes there are user replacable batteries inside the S50

Well Ed, seriously you missed the point of the 500usd seestar. I can put the seestar in my dads hands for the first time and 5minutes later he is totally amazed... try that with any usual highend rig...

Ed's first impressions of the SeeStar sounds very reminiscent of those told to me by the owner of the Hifi store I worked at when Sony gave him a sneek peek of their first Walkman. He didn't think it was ready for prime time when he compared it to top of the line Nakamichi Dragon and Revox cassette decks of the day. 😂😂😂

@brownj2

Ай бұрын

undersized and inflexible

@FernandoRodriguez-pj5uh

Ай бұрын

The old story of the Walkman. Have heard the same story many time like Motorola mocking Apple because they knew how to make phones!! Where are the Motorola smartphones? Where is Apple? Same with the first MO3 players. Nice to read from someone probably my age and both of us having fun with a Seestar

The best telescope is the one you use. This telescope has changed the game and allowed ease of use for a new generation of astronomers.

But for $500 do we havve a better option? How about $1000-1500?

@artyombeilis9075

2 ай бұрын

No. For $500 you barely can buy AZ GTi and basic camera... For decent budget it is a better to build custom rig. Would be more flexible and useful.

@Boxxkarr

2 ай бұрын

The Takahashi 60mm telescope is over $1000. A good go to mount is another two to three thousand. Then you need digital cameras, laptop, hardware, software, looking at a minimum of $6,000, and most of my Astrophotography friends tell me they are all over $10k. But their images are absolutely amazing!

@jorymil

2 ай бұрын

I saw an iOptron AstroBoy 70mm refractor on eBay for $100, and adding a ZWO camera to it might be $100 more. Obviously the value-add here is computer integration knowledge: it's just a matter of how much it's worth to you versus doing some of the work yourself. If you have the knowledge, but not the money, it's a no-brainer; likewise if you have money and need something self-contained. I could see this being very useful in a kiosk-type situation hooked up to a cheap Android tablet. If I were running, say, a science class or museum, it might be worthwhile.

@jorymil

2 ай бұрын

​​@@Boxxkarr I think this is marketed more at the Tasco crowd than the Takahashi crowd. Someone with good computer knowledge and patience to wait for good deals could easily build something better themselves for less than $1000, and it would likely be more future-proof than this.

@rickmoore4776

2 ай бұрын

@@artyombeilis9075 a refractor on an eq mount is way better.

Another comparison of apples and pears. 500 vs 5000 USD. EAA vs astrophotography. The S50 should be better compared with Dobson scopes. The question is, what can you see with a 8 or 10" Dobson compared to the S50 under various Seeing conditions and Bortle scales. Then, we are much closer. Btw. the reason for using a small sensor (IMX462) in the S50 is related to the limitations that an Alt/AZ mount brings with it. The larger the sensor, the bigger is the effect of field rotation, ending in oblong stars or at least blurry stars. I'm pretty sure, that we will see more of such smart telescopes in different sizes for different purposes in the future (as we all know, there is no one-size-fits-all scope). As always, demand and price will decide it.

@AshA-ww8hc

2 ай бұрын

Agree with you completely. This is ridiculous when you don't take the price into consideration. $500 is still incredible value.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

You guys are reacting with the fanatic fervour of Apple fanboys on a review that is like mildly critical.

Can you recommend a better scope for the money with comparable results as the s50? Us poors want to look at the sky as well.

@gomcse

2 ай бұрын

No, he can't. His review is wrong.

@SpaceRocksandStardust

2 ай бұрын

Us poors should not be allowed into the hobby!!! It is carefully guarded by all the grumpy old men who spend all day yelling at kids to ‘get off their lawn!’. Just pop onto any astro forum and you can hear them spewing on about how if you arent grinding your own lenses and using paper star charts out in the field and only doing visual astro, unless you are using glass plates for imaging (thats pretty modern but acceptable) that you dont know anything! Unless you spend the cost of an average new car or even a house on scopes that they basically hold a lottery for to be able to purchase one, then you are too poor for the hobby. They closely guard this weird idea that being an amateur astronomer somehow makes them so much more intelligent and elevates them high above the rest of the unwashed masses that if even one of us dirty, stupid, poor folk slip through into the hobby then it might knock them off their self installed pedestal… shame on us!😂😂😂

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

You are not poor if you're spending $500 on a scope, budget beginner scopes start at $200 so if you're willing to spend more than double than that on your first telescope you are rich.

i dont think that the images not looking special is the point. you say with conventional astrophotography, but conventional astrophotography requires you about a dozen things to get started with, if you live in the city or suburbs and the sky is bad, you need a filter . then there is the whole business of taking flats, stacking which is not easy. the taking images part itself is pretty easy with software like NINA, which allows you to automatize everything. these are just fantastic for carrying it around when you're travelling and in very dark spots where it'll shine.

FWIW, for the $399.00 USD cost. I am having a whole lot of fun with my Seestar S50. For ZWO, the Seestar S50 has become a world wide hit. I can't wait to see what ZWO has on the drawing room table. Perhaps a Super Seestar? With my experience with the present Seestar S50, I would order one in a heart beat.

I agree with Ed most of the time. And although I do agree with his negative comments about the S50, I disagree with the notion that it’s not that good of a smart scope. It’s been a great tool I use every once in a while to digitally show friends abroad a few images of what I’m looking at. You just can’t beat the quick setup and use. Yes, its images are sub par compared to expensive astrophotography pro rigs. And if somebody buys this thinking they are getting pro images with it then yes they are mistaken. But my passion is in the live viewing and this is just a side tool that is occasionally used. For me it’s been a worthy investment, as a non-Astro photography guy. Still, glad Ed did a discussion on this unit. Thanks.👍

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comments. It's getting lively around here, isn't it?

@theoldman2821

2 ай бұрын

It wasn't a discussion it was an unfair rant that Ed should address in a future episode.

I think it's a good scope for only $500. I can observe objects which are impossible to see with my C8 (visually) in less than 10 mins. Very portable and easy to use.

I have no car, use a powered wheelchair because I can’t walk far and i tend to fall from violent rictor 10 vertigo!!! Given those circumstances a dwarf or Seestar is my only choice. Trying to haul around a dob or Celestron 8 se is a recipe for disaster! One good fall and its over-one dead/destroyed scope! It would be wiser to keep my limitations in mind and get one of the smaller scopes. Can’t get pictures or enjoyment out of a destroyed heavy scope! 😢a lighter scope in a hard shell case is much more likely to survive a fall.

Your comparisons of the SeeStar vs the Takahashi are incomplete and that is unfortunate. Specifically, you compare internally processed Seestar images with externally processed Takahashi ones. If you truly wanted to make fair comparisons, you should have externally processed the raw SeeStar FITS images through the identical flow you used for the Takahashi. This would have been a more objective approach and the results would have been much closer in final image quality.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Give these devices a few generations; they'll give the Taks of the world a run for their money. Using the FITS files won't make that much difference given the current state of the product. It's also a non-intuitive process and it's something that should be streamlined in the app.

@BearLurcher

2 ай бұрын

@@edting I leant mine to my Gran a few weeks back, as she has always had a passing interest in Astro. She was able to operate it without issue and loved the results (she even had a play around with a little post processing in Siril). I'm struggling to understand what exactly you found so challenging?... You turn it on, you point, you shoot.

@bobmusil1458

2 ай бұрын

@@edting You seriously expect the automatic stacking in the telescope to be as good as PixInsight? Do you not know that PixInsight with the Xterminator add-ons is just as expensive as the whole telescope? You can’t be serious!

@grantsorenson4113

2 ай бұрын

Yeah and Takahashi is a completely overrated piece of crap for what you pay. Way way overpriced. it reminds me of these academic beanheads who buy BMWs. Another piece of crap jut buying it for the name. The word Snob snob snob comes to mind in this review from ed...

I have been following your reviews for many years, and have agreed (mostly) with your takes on many types of Astro equipment. However, I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed in your review of the SeeStar S50. I have been in the hobby for 40 years now and the Seestar S50 has given me renewed excitement about a hobby I had lost interest in. I have primarily been a visual observer because I find astrophotography an expensive and tedious part of the hobby. Most importantly, the IMMEDIACY of the imaging, and being able to share pics in “real time” with my grandchildren has gotten them very excited about the hobby. They were able to easily navigate the Seestar App and take pics of their own….this was a game changer for them. A standard astrophotography setup may achieve better results, but it certainly doesn’t generate the excitement that the immediacy of the Seestar achieves. Imho, it is well worth the $499.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Good point. Obviously for you, you made the right choice.

@starhopper59

2 ай бұрын

@@edting Thanks Ed!

I don't own one of these, and have no plans to buy one. However, having seen them in action I believe they are well-suited to outreach activities such as star parties. While there's nothing quite like seeing the Orion Nebula with your own eyeball, a few minutes' exposure with a Seestar does bring out a lot more than you can see with even a large telescope. The ability to find objects such as galaxies, planetary nebulae and clusters, and build an image that can be shown on a screen to a group of visitors is a really great feature. As an introduction to deep-sky astronomy, the Seestar and its rivals are remarkably good, and good value. For amateurs who want to do serious work they are far less useful.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Yes, good points.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

Mind you the ability to find objects isn't a serious value add on considering there are literally free apps that do the same.

I wish to personally thank all of those who purchased the rev1 of the SeeStar, thus solidifying the line's future. I will be seriously interested when the SeeStar II comes out :) Here's the thing though. Ed is reviewing the SeeStar from the lens of an experienced Astrophotographer and telescope guy. He isn't the target market. The SeeStar, in my opinion, is not geared towards those users who already have a proper Astrophotography rig unless they know exactly what they are getting with a SeeStar and just want one for the very casual use. The SeeStar is geared more to those who would like to get into casual astro but don't have the time, money or abilities to set a proper rig up.

Well you get a triplet scope. Small but not an achro. A mount with go to and tracking, which can be set up polar too. A Raspberry built in, and an HOO filter. Leveling has been fixed with an update. Comes with the solar filter too. Try and buy that for $500. It can store raw, so down loading you images, and processing them yourself is very doable. I think it's a great way to get into ap. When you move on/up, what a great gift to get your grandchildren into astronomy. You get to have fully automated results on night 1. Can then learn processing with the data from it. And when you buy your first real astro rig, you have an idea of how and what you want to do.

@milocat007

2 ай бұрын

It's a shame that Ed didn't include this useful perspective in his short review.

Ed I love your channel and watch it all the time. I have a SWED80 on a EQ6R Pro, a Williams 71 Triplet, a C5 an old Scope 60, and now a Seestar. The Seestar will do the job nicely introducing my very young grandchildren to the stars until they can look comfortably through an eyepiece. Small group outreach for novice stargazers on a budget is the Seestar's strength. I could wait for a better one, but the young ones will grow older and perhaps less interested.

You're a real contrarian in the industry, Ed! Most other KZread astro influencers are raving about the Seestar. "However," you do make good points about "where we are" right now in the development of smart scopes. I have both a conventional astro-imaging rig on an EQ mount and a visual-only dob, so I agree on the limitations of the Seestar. I myself passed on it. But I went ahead and bought one for my son--he'd seen some of my images and got excited about galaxies and nebulae. I could have gotten him a traditional manual dob for the same price, but in his light-polluted city, he'd never see deep sky objects. Same thing with a $500-ish 80mm doublet refractor. I think the Seestar's achievement--and you're right, this is a "temporary" achievement--is creating a scope capable of live stacking tech that's able to see the brighter deep sky objects through light pollution. In this context, I think the Seestar is a valuable addition to the hobby.

The seestar is mainly an EAA rig, The most seeling point of the seestar is its portability and easy setup after a hard day of work, but i take a normal rig any day

In my point of view the S50 is a great tool for educational purposes. A club or even a school can probably afford to buy a set and motivate young people to do astrophotography with a nearly 100% chance of a picture where you can see something unvisible to the "naked eye". When I was young and started out with some astrophotography I was just some kind of "weird" guy spending the night out in the dark (at that time still dark..), trying to track a guide star and fighting the problems of film photography. We had to hand the films to the lab and at the end there were maybe 6 pictures in a series of 36 where the stars were pinpoint sharp, not to forget the loss of sensitivity of the emulsion, eating up the extra exposure time. What followed was an interest in visual observation, sketching once in a while what I could see in the eyepiece.

Dr. Ting, I’ve been waiting for you to post this video for a long time , even expecting it! Many of these products were in the 2000+ range but I think with this being only $500 we are “there” in terms of this being accessible to almost anyone intersted in the hobby. Excited for what the future holds for the amateur astronomer !

Its a great scope. Polar alignment is coming soon and mosaic mode.

We have known people that have spend thousands of dollar on astrophotography equipment and after a couple years or even less they got tired of the amount of work it takes setting up and breaking the system down, and dragging it back inside. No every one can afford their own observatory. In time their equipment sets in storage or in the corner at most being taken out ,if then, one or two times a year. The Dwarf II and the SeeStar S50 has made observing fun again. Takes little time to set up and the picture are no terrible. Been doing this so long we remember the days of film astrophotography. Had someone been turning out images like one gets with these smart telescope of deepsky objects you would have be considered an advanced astrophotographer. What Ed is doing is like comparing a Ford Festa to Maserati. Of course the Maserati is going to be far superior. Then again the Ford Festa will get you from point A and b and back again in some general relative comfort and doesn't brake the bank.

I have a seestar s50 that I use along with my other rigs. The images it produces are nothing spectacular compared to a proper ap setup, but it's quite amazing what it can obtain with the amount of effort involved. It is super easy to use. Sometimes, you may not feel like setting up a full rig, or maybe the sky is only clear for an hour or two, and putting the big rig out doesn't seem worth it. The seestar excels in such situations. Its ease of use can get more folks enjoying astronomy, which is wonderful! I think it is great for what it is, and the price point is fair for what you get.

I’m Totally excited with the Seestar as a beginner. I am a photographer and started photographing the moon . then moved on wanting to do astrophotography. I bought a tracker a Redcat Telescope to start this journey. I just couldn’t get to first base. I was having trouble with alignment , I struggled for a long time with all this never successful. I kept buying things that thought would help me get to first base . Supper frustrated I gave up. . The Seestar has allowed me to get into Deepspaces , lunar , solar. planets not great but that’s okay . Best investment i made and getting the training i need to advance. i’m learning and that’s the important part. not the money pit that i Nave in my bedroom holding my rob up 😩 I appreciate your video for the advance people . but for beginners like me it’s enough for us to view the deep pace objects and are excited to see if only the basics. The others stuff will come if we choose to invest and want more . 😊

I think they are great except for the post processing engine. You still need to do that yourself to get anything decent.

I have a few thoughts- My imaging rig is a 9.25EdgeHD. That thing has a small field of view and doesn't zoom either. There is a huge maker market for these things and several ways to run these in equatorial mode and that's a big deal. It can save videos on the moon or sun on the device itself (50G of onboard storage) and you can save fits file of DSOs for processing outside of the device. I've taken really great images of M51, M81, M42, and M46- All with less than an hour of total exposure time. In addition to that, I use it as an outreach device, streaming lunar and solar images. These are a great way to give people access to a hobby that would otherwise have a steep learning curve and potentially much higher cost. The S50 is not without flaws, but there is no question that it gives a tremendous bang for the buck.

Obviously, based on the comments, not everyone shares your opinion… however, I for one appreciate your experience, knowledge, and perspective. Critical reviews like this helps manufactures improve their offerings… which helps move the bar forward for everyone. Let’s face it… the reason Smart Telescopes exist in the first place are the numerous niches that were not, or could not, be satisfied with existing solutions. Portability, low cost, ease of use, and shareability of results are big selling points - and kudos to the companies pursuing these features. We are very blessed to live in such times.

Hi Ed, I stumbled upon you video and thought as an recent owner of the SeeStar s50, that I would give you my views. I have been an visual astronomer for many years and own a 16" Reflections, 8" Skywatcher and a 10" Meade Lx200. I tried astrophotography in the past and struggled with the setup and getting things right. Also, I live in a large town in England with the usual light pollution issues and chasing objects visually is always difficult. I can't afford the luxury of a full modern imaging rig and don't have the space to put up a permanent setup, let along begin to understand the processing. When the SeeStar s50 came along, I decided to get one with the full knowledge that it does not compare to a full rig, but what it has done is expand my observing and allows me to see objects that were a visual challenge in a light polluted area even with a large aperture telescope. It has also helped me to understand how images are taken and I am learning how to post process. The fact that I can simply set it up anywhere (I have put it on a better tripod), turn it on, level it, select an object, adjust the focus and press go then watch the image build is, in my view, absolutely great! Yes, it has its limitations, but as an all-round starter imaging scope, I think ZWO have got it right. PS... I done some field analysis of images I took of Messier galaxies in the Virgo / Leo area under Bortle 6 skies and the s50 is pulling in 15th mag PGC galaxies in the same frame, albeit very small faint blobs, but definitely identifiable!

I’ve had my Seestar for a week now. I had nearly left the hobby due to issues with eyesight, lifting heavy gear and pure fiddle factor. From what I have observed, the Seestar overcomes all of these issues at an affordable price point. Certainly it has its limitations but it seems that it does, in fact, collect adequate enough data on a significant number of DSOs to produce very acceptable images with post-processing. One minor correction: the internal battery is user-replaceable and this is easily accomplished.

Just like with your friend that post processed the image, have u tried to do the same with your images? Were the results that much better?

The only thing is if end-users don't buy them, it may not drive their market enough to improve them.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Good point.

@jorymil

2 ай бұрын

If a product is good enough, there will be early adopters. If it isn't, companies will wait a year or two for lenses, phones, and processors to improve, then try again. Buying something to help companies out seems like paying a car company to fix their recalled air bags. If it works _now_, great. If not, wait.

@stevepalmer5115

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

You don't need to pay for a company's R&D, they aren't idiots and will develop a product if they know there is a market for it. No one brought the Newton because they were hoping for an iPad one day, but Apple still developed the iPad eventually. Let the company spend their own money developing a product and then wait until they're offering something that is actually good.

@brettcourtenay569

2 ай бұрын

@@hedgehog3180 , There is no question about it...ZWO in regards to the Seestar S50 are offering something that is VERY Good. And measured against almost ANY and EVERY parameter that MOST people would consider important, valid and relevant...nothing else comes close. Especially if in fairness , you and others were to compare Apples with Apples. Imagine if the Hubble Telescope had never been developed because they waited for a better Space Telescope , like the James Webb to come. Progress withers when you wait.

Two nights ago, I used my SeeStar in my Bortle 8 site to view and photograph 35 deep sky targets (5-40 minutes each). 25 of these targets I had NEVER seen before at my site, even while using my $25K in astronomy gear (80mm refractor, 8" SCT, Delos eyepieces, binoviewers, IS binoculars, etc). $500 was an insignificant cost for what I saw and how quickly I could see it due to the onboard processing. Yes, I could certainly have waited for improvements in the gear and features that might be available in the future but the time value of having an improved experience NOW is incalculable. I NOW have a portable, simple, time efficient, good quality, low cost, instrument to complement the other items in my toolbox.

Um, quick question when you're discussing image quality; are you looking at the jpeg files it automatically creates on your phone? The watermarking seems to imply so.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Yes, it automatically saves the image to your phone when decide to stop stacking.

@shabingly

2 ай бұрын

@@edting ahhh, ok. Yeah, those JPGs aren't great quality. It also saves the FITS files as a single file (and can also be configured to save each individual sub for your own stacking and processin externally in something like pixinsight or siril) into internal storage. You can then download that and adjust it as you see fit. They even updated recently so you can do your own stacking and limited adjustments to the stack on your mobile device before exporting a decent quality image other than jpg. But, ultimately, the jpgs are really only goodish for phone viewing. 100% agree on sensor size/FOV. For just looking at the live stack, I think they chose the right orientation though. I think I get your final position regarding it, especially as you probably assume people just stumbling onto your video, but my counterpoints would be: if no one adopts, there is no market and they won't continue to produce or develop these devices. And also, comparing a 500 dollar-quid-euro device to however much your astrophotography rig costs is a *little* unfair. I've really enjoyed using mine: I'm in bortle /actually 6 with a hellish amount of stray light and being able to set it up in 5 minutes if there's a break in the weather means I actually use it. I sometimes struggle with my other 'scopes, especially after work.

I have the Seestar S50. I know it has its limitations. Its not my only telescope. I go from a 12" Meade SCT to a Celestron travel scope and I think about 9 in between. The Seestar could do things better, but as a new device on the market I knew what I was signing up to. There are regular firmware updates, and over time I am pretty sure a lot of the kinks will be ironed out. For me the Seestar scratches an itch, I want to take pictures of galaxies and nebula, and have done using my garden pier, and my 8" edge hd, but I really cannot be bothered to sit in front of a pc and spend hours of my time producing an image, that 1000's of other people have done. Putting it up against a Takahashi I feel is a little unfair. The seestar cost £550, the telescope alone cost way more. then include the tracking mount, camera and then the PC or laptop needed to process it. From parking up at a dark sky site to getting it up and running takes about 5 mins.(10 if you include all the horizon stuff it does) Taking my EQ6 pro and all the needed stuff that goes with it, an hour at best. The seestar has a place in the market, it isn't for everyone. I'm hoping they will bring out a bigger version, because I'd buy that too In the future it would be good to see a mount, with all the features of a smart telescope but with the ability to attach your own scope. It could be made to be compatible with various cameras that can plug directly in to the mount and even a motorised focuser.

I love my SeeStar. I have been working towards mastering my Nexstar 8se with some nights of frustration. I’m continuing with learning and plan on building towards my own rig in the future. We understand that the SeeStar isn’t nearly as good as an expensive rig with years of experience, but I think you are missing the whole point that this little, affordable device keeps the fires burning towards learning all that is possible. I’ve been able to delve into some post processing software that I would not have been possible for me without this affordable device. There have been multiple upgrades already. Instead of being such a downer, why don’t you celebrate that more people are now able to start to see the beauty in our night skies.

I hate to Tag but I need help big time! I have a 127 EQ and I was trying to collimate with a SVony laser, Well I messed up, The secondary went face down and I went Oh No, now how!? I looked down the tube and it centered in the bullseye but if I release it's down again. Any advice other than a 8" Dob which I wish I wish I could get!? I fear I have ruined my scope in my eagerness to get the best focus! I know the out of focus round trick to not get obelic/triangle stars but I need to get it where I can even see anything again. Please?

@krazyhorse448

2 ай бұрын

It's not broken it's just needs love to get it looking clear again and I know you are the man!

Thats funny. Takahashi FS60 ~770$, plus you'll need mount, tracker, and some patience, to build this up in the field. And, ofc, you'll need to bring all this weight to some dark place. On the other hand, we have a lightweight setup, that combines all that things, that you can always have in the trunk and when you have a dark sky - use it. Yes, images directly stacked by the seestar, looks not so good, but well, on conventional setups, you don't have even that. So you would spend some time to manually process images from the both sides. Field of view, yep, not that good, but vaonis vespera already fixed it with mosaic mode, and ZWO promises to add that feature too. Seestar was realeased just recently, and ofcourse it needs to be fixed in some issues. But it's impressive for me already.

I have to say, as 10" & 6" Dobsonian and Coronado PST owner, the S50 is an exciting addition for someone who wants to dabble in astrophotography. A bargain for £550, personally I recommend one.

Thank you for this review! It's great information!

I think you are missing the point. This is meant as an entry to astronomy. You should be comparing the attributes to a store bought, or starter kit. You get several advanced attributes in a simple package, for a low cost.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Yes, good point.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

I think the inability to view things with your own eyes makes this a really bad entry level telescope. The fun of astronomy isn't looking at pictures of stuff, it's looking at it yourself and getting more intimate with the night sky. I think the space that'll be really interesing is hybrid scopes that offer the convenience of this thing while also getting you an actual telescope you can look through yourself. Though I guess that basically already exists in the form of various guidance apps that make it extremely easy to use any telescope. I think this thing is basically only interesting if you're already into astronomy enough to want to get seriously into astrophotography but also value convenience. I think if you brought this thing as your actual first scope you'd use it for maybe a month at most before the novelty of it wore off and you realized that your experience wasn't really any different from just looking at pictures on the web, and then you either get an actual beginner scope at half the price or you drop the hobby entirely.

On the topic of the market niche, in my mind we know what the niche is - EAA (electronically assisted astronomy). EAA is nothing new - it's been around for a while. What these telescopes do is give you a sort of out of the box, plug 'n play EAA experience. The more expensive smart telescopes were (and still are) a bad value proposition. For the same price, you could get a much more capable EAA setup that would also give you a lot more flexibility to do real AP as well as engage in optical visual astronomy. However, lower the price to $500 and now you have a reasonably good value proposition for an entry-level EAA setup. But it's worth emphasizing that these are entry-level, just in the way that the Orion Starblast is an entry-level optical telescope. Set your expectations accordingly and it makes sense for what it is. The problem comes from people trying to do actual AP with these scopes. That's not what they're designed for - anymore than any other entry-level scope is. The real limits of these smart telescopes is their lunar and planetary performance. Between the limited aperture and relatively low res digital nature of these instruments, they lack the ability to resolve fine details on the planets. The aforementioned Starblast under good atmospheric conditions would be substantially better for viewing Jupiter than the S50. However, that same Starblast isn't going to be showing you the Horse Head Nebula as depicted in Ed's test shot. Not even close. That's where an EAA setup like the S50 shines.

what would you recommend for someone who has a really good dSLR body but no other equipment to speak of? these little scopes are great but your images are amazing and i would love to land somewhere in the middle!

Great video Ed! But I feel like you focused on the wrong things when reviewing this product, your complaints about noise, white balance, or lack of improvement with stacking past a certain point (and multiple other issues relating to post-processing) are all things that can be fixed in post-processing (considering that this device allows you to download the raw subs) which I think a lot of users are going to try to do. Your comparisons to multi-thousand dollar astrophotography rigs don’t make a lot of sense when this is supposed to be a budget entry point to astrophotography at $500. Zwo should definitely try to improve the automatic processing but I don’t think this is an issue for astrophotography (EAA is a different story). You should take a look at the Dwarf 2 smart telescope (Also about $500), which has sort of solved the fixed magnification problem by providing 2 lenses (One telephoto lens and one wide-angle lens).

@edting

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the perspective. In my opinion it's still too early to be buying a smart telescope. Also if you own one, I'm curious about your experience with the Dwarf. I've played with them and I find them to be weird, buggy products.

@bobmyers9008

2 ай бұрын

@@edtingI find the Dwarf easy to use, simple to set up affordable and the company is very active in upgrading and improving its product.

@TrungNguyen-uf8cv

2 ай бұрын

​@@edting as I heard the sensor on the Seestar is quited dated. It's not like in phone biz they are pumping a new phone chip every year to dive down the price of the previous years' models

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

I mean the poor post processing is an issue when the entire selling point of this thing is convenience. Like you're expecting people who are new to the hobby and clearly not interested in getting technical to start messing around with tons of software and learn how to post process on their own.

Hey Ed. Do you think making mosaics with the Seestar is something most people might end up doing with the larger objects given the focal length of the scope?

I’ve got about $6,500 in my main rig. I just fell into a SeeStar for a much lower price, so I now have one. I fully understand the limitations of the SeeStar but I like the idea taking it off the backseat and showing my family what AP is and give a general idea of what I enjoy. I find no problem with owning one knowing what it’s capable. I also fully intend to process my images in PixInsight. Maybe lighten up a bit lol. Perhaps these devices will encourage others to give our hobby a chance.

So not sure if this was said but you can plug the seestar into your computer and stack the images the same way in whatever your preferred stacking software is not just on the device itself.

It's pretty much been my experience throughout my life that jumping onboard when a new fangled gadget comes out inevitably leads to disappointment especially when a better version comes out a few months later. I try to keep from doing that anymore and like to wait things out a bit to see how the product evolves with time. Celestron seems to have done that and are now offering what I think will be the path that more manufacturers will be taking which is bigger aperture coupled with this new technology. I was interested when I saw the Dwarf but it's small optic turned me off... then the Seestar came on the scene and it looked interesting when compared to the Dwarf but I still held back. Now Celestron enters with a 6" but the price has me holding back. I think I would really like to see what you are talking about as far as an add on for existing telescopes to make them like these new platforms. Thank you for saying what I wanted a reviewer to say about these scopes... an honest review of where they really are in terms of use. The shortfalls you mention I believe is what makes them cheap at this point in time. Add in all the things you mentioned like larger field of view and different magnifications and the price would certainly sky rocket! The manufacturers are in a catch 22 situation... they want a product people will buy so they make it cheap by limiting usefulness but then if they add those things in people will sit and wait for prices to come down and they won't generate money for further R&D.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

I mean half of the add on package already exists in the form of Astrohopper, it's a free app that will do just as good a job of guiding you towards anything on the sky as any goto telescope. With a good smartphone mount the only thing you're missing now is a guided mount, so I hope someone in the near future makes a motorized mount that is driven by your smartphone.

8:01 M44 seems to have some odd dark patches in the right hand image, are these processing artefacts?🤔

Thank you for the review. I think the attraction of the smart telescope lower hassle and yes, it comes at the expense of lower quality etc. You are right, this is still early in the product cycle and it will become better a bit later. Thank you for your very good review and analysis.

I think its great to introduce people to the hobby and a place to start for not much money.

@dandurkin9735

2 ай бұрын

I think it's a dead end.

@mycarolinaskies

2 ай бұрын

@@dandurkin9735 Sure it's not upgradeable, but neither are the competitors in the field right now. But for $500, that's the price of two good eyepieces or one reasonable used uncooled camera. For the money it delivers what it was meant to deliver. It won't replace visual observing of some targets, but it will show other dim targets after a few minutes stacking. For instance, last night on my S50's trial run I was able to see dim fuzziness of a small galaxy in 2 minutes even with the Moon being very bright. Not bad for a 50mm 'dead end'.

@StarlancerAstro

2 ай бұрын

@@dandurkin9735 If you live in B7-9 Skies, this is about the only way to see many targets at that price point. I own a 7-8k AP setup and still like using my Seestar for a quick look and poke around since it's so easy to setup and super lightweight. Sometimes when I get home from work I don't want to drag out a big setup but I can still enjoy astronomy this way. It's not perfect but it looks to be a far better value then Celestron's new unit and if it get's anyone in to astronomy then that is a good thing.

@martynh5410

2 ай бұрын

@@dandurkin9735 Not at all. If you find you love Astrophotography you can later sell this and spend the $6,000 or more for the proper set up.

@hedgehog3180

2 ай бұрын

$500 is not much money to you???

The UI could use some work, and they need more features. But these are still great devices. Where the s50 shines is when there's a window of clear sky that won't be long enough to justify dragging out a big astro rig. I can set up my seestar in about 5 minutes, including recalibration of the compass (I have to do this every time, for no real reason), levelling, focusing, and moving to the first target. When I'm done, or if weather rolls up, I just grab it and take it inside. Not having a permanent outdoor home for my big mounts/telescopes, it easily takes me an hour to get those going, and teardown is also painful the next morning. I have purchased $3k+ telescopes, equally expensive cameras, filter wheels, guiders, focusers, big mounts, etc. and I still think the seestar is the best thing I have bought for astrophotography -- of course the best tool you have is the one you'll use regularly. The pictures don't come close to what the ASI 6200mm pro can take, but they do make decent images if you do your own stacking. I'm looking forward to what the future brings on these devices.

I just got into the hobby in August 2023. I am 73 years old, in poor health, feeble and am impoverished. I had a $300 budget. I wanted to do deep space astrophotography. Everyone said I must buy a Dobonian and aperture is king. So, I bought a 10" Dobsonian. Then found out it was too heavy for me to drag into the back garden and not well suited for photography. Then, I bought a 150mm Newtonian on a CG-4 mount. Still too heavy and no motor drive. Then, I bought a 130mm Newtonian on a EQ-3 motorized mount. Great! Not too heavy and could track. But, in my Bortle 6 sky, looking through my cataracts, I could not star hop. Then, I bought a Sky-Watcher AZ GTi mount and an 80mm ED refractor. Worked nicely. Started taking pictures. But, field rotation kept eating my photos. So, I recently purchased a Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi equatorial mount, a 6" SCT, a x0.63 reducer and a Hyperstar 4 v6. When the weather clears, I hope to use this setup for most all photographical needs. Oh, and I am over budget. My hobby is the work involved. I do not want to say, "Alexa, take a photo for me."

@BirdFinder

2 ай бұрын

I hope you love the c6 Hyperstar. I love mine. If you buy any filters, make sure they’re rated for f2.

@lukasvanagas842

2 ай бұрын

Agreed! The best thing is the one you use! When I was searching where to start astro everybody said "buy dobsonian" but I ignored them because I have Multiple Sclerosis (Dobs are too heavy to me). Now I use SW EQM-35 mount with SW 130PDS. It is not too heavy, fits perfectly in a car, so I can travel with it

@zorzevic

2 ай бұрын

6" SCT on a star adventurer????

@RoofMonkey911

2 ай бұрын

IF you told people you wanted to take Astro photos and they still recommended a Dob… they obviously did NOT know what they were talking about.

@sjpp71

2 ай бұрын

If someone is impoverished, with only 300$ budget, and wanting to start in astrophotography, I'd advise them to get a used dslr snd start shooting with the stock lens or "nifty fifty" lens.

For a beginner like me, the Seestar S50 has been miraculous and engaging. Certainly I understand the presenter's reluctance to recommend the scope, and I agree with his critique. But I am old! And I can't wait for the needed improvements.

This device has a panorama mode coming out that will help with the zoom issues mentioned. As far as the quality of the images, post production is always required with astrophotography. The fact that this can give beginners a basic idea of what they’re looking at and guide them to it make it an excellent entry point to a hobby with a high learning curve.

Lots of good information Ed! I own a Dwarf2 smart telescope which I find is a lot of fun and a valuable tool for outreach when used in conjunction with a conventional telescope.

I was in between this ZWO Seestar (about 750U$ in Brazil) and a 8" Dob from a ATM here in Brazil and I choose the Dobsonian, I think I've made the right decision since my wish is to learn the Sky and my friend Ed here always recomend the Dob for begginer's. Best wishes from Brazil! Clear Skies!

@bonesshed.

2 ай бұрын

Dobs are awesome ! You will get some great live views. If you're handy at making things I highly recommend making an equatorial mount for it

Zwo Seestar S50 drawn so many people to Astronomy. I love it !!

Hi Ed Iam ols school too & iam not so sure about these either but iam willing to buy one (iam not sure when). I guess for people in heavy LP it can show then DSO that they cant see. cheers

My $450 smart telescope got me laid. Money well spent

Ed, I love your videos, but I finally, found something I can disagree with you on, yep its the Seestar, I have a few great rigs, but recently I lost my wife, and with that any interest in astronomy or even life itself, a few years before we lost our son, and we were able to support each other, my remaining daughters were concerned about my mental health, so I got myself a little Seestar, the weather where i live seemed to be as miserable as I felt, this little gem has seen me through some of the hardest times of my life, an hour here and there, has started me on the journey of finding myself and my passion for astrophotography, once again. Obviously its never going to replace a great scope, but for those who already use apps like Pixinsight etc, have achieved great images from the raw data which is downloaded from the scope itself in single frames as FIT files, I have a disabled friend who had to give up the hobby, he just couldn't set up the equipment anymore, he's very excited at the fact he can once again enjoy the hobby, so I suppose it will find a home, and get better at what it does.

Hi Ed, I think you had a pretty balanced review overall.. some good points regarding what could be improved. Like you, I've been enjoying the night sky since I was a kid (and I'm about 80 now) and have had way too many telescopes 🙂. I have two imaging setups involving cooled cameras, expensive mounts, guide scopes, electronic focusers, nice refractors, etc. HOWEVER, I love the Seestar S50. I've had mine since they were first released. I think the main issue is how you intend to use it. For me it is a very portable and easy way to show friends and families some of the wonders of the deep sky. I can carry to a neighbors house, put in in my car for a road trip, and always have a convenient tool to take a look at the night sky. I live in NM, so I'm fortunate to have decent skies a lot of the time. I see a LOT of awful Seestar images on the web, confirming that a lot of new users don't understand the need for a little post, etc. I agree the device post processing needs improvement. I've found that if I spend a little time doing post, it can make a huge difference in the image quality. Also, important to level as accurately as possible and agree that a leveling device is mandatory. Thanks for your review. Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, NM

Just imagine when the Kodak Box Camera came out at the end of the 19th century some "Professional Photographer" says "it's not that good"...don't buy it...sheesh!

As someone has a complete newb, I've already learnt that imaging is something that I'll need to get to via a lot work and money. And though I'm yet to buy one, with the S50 I don't have to do that. Now purists will hate that but I'm only doing this for myself, no one else. I still love looking through an eyepiece and when I can I'll run both side by side.

I just had a friend of mine and club member buy the Seestar S50, used it for a month and put it back on sale. He had an interesting point of view. He said that it does everything for you and there was nothing for him to do than just find an object on a planetarium software that would be visible and then command it to all the work. He did not feel like he was challenged enough to learn anything like if you were to do in visual observation or the complexity involved in astrophotography. There were no problems to solve to feel involved in the hobby. It does look like a good tool for EAA for public outreach though.

@maknswarf3684

2 ай бұрын

This is how I feel, very useful for EAA and outreach but it ruins the feeling of discovery. Also there is something about thinking about how long the photons have traveled and ended up in my retina. It makes you feel incredibly tiny but still significant because you were there to see the end of the photon's journey.

@mycarolinaskies

2 ай бұрын

These devices aren't for visual, they are for beginning exploration as a reasonable stepping stone to better telescopes and devices. But at $500 they are also so reasonably priced that most any budget can afford one new, or slightly used.

@user-hd9zg6gh4o

2 ай бұрын

Save raw, and download and process yourself and it becomes less automated, and the images become much better. This makes the learning curve much less steep for the beginner. Even when I have my "real" ap rig running, the seestar is running too. And fir those in a city. Even a giant dob isn't going to show you what this little scope can with it's filter engaged.

@dnranjit

2 ай бұрын

@@mycarolinaskies Visual observation was just an example. I do agree it is a cost effective way into astronomy to introduce astronomy on a mass scale though.

@gomcse

2 ай бұрын

So it did exactly what it was designed to do, and did it too well? How bizarre.

I agree with this review. It’s not a hobby killer by any means but it’s also not a full-up astro photo setup. I’m looking forward to the next generation smart scopes.

@edting

2 ай бұрын

I'm looking forward to SeeStar V2, V3, V4. Things will only get better with time.

Thoughts on the Celestron Origin?

I have a visual only 12" dob. Living in the Netherlands, we have had a terrible half year. Rain interspersed with thick clouds. Of course sometimes we had a break and got some 1 - 2 hours of clear skies. But clear skies for hours? may be 5 days? How nice it would be to just check for a small patch of clear skies, put something small and light in the garden, press a button and go. If after half an hour or so the rain kicks in: just grab the thing and store it indoors. Setting up my dob (align it to polaris real rough for the tracking motors) and have some reasonable cooling of the mirror plus perform a quick collimation check takes half an hour or so. So I don't bother anymore in case I have less than an hour of clear skies. To be fair: it is supicious that I see tons of images of the moon, the sun, the Orion nebula and.... thats mostly it. But then again: if you live under light poluted skies, what do you actually *see* of smaller galaxies than Andromeda... Some white smudges of the core, and if you wait long enough, and the seeing is perfect for some seconds, if you are fully dark adapted and you use adversed vision... then you see a hint of some spiral arms. Sure: globular clusters are very nice. Looking at the moon is no contest. Visual observation rules by a huuuuuge margin. The ability to zoom in using a different eyepiece, and see those sharp fine details in the dob: can't be beaten. Even if the transparency is not perfect. No smart telescope for the moon! This being said, I often think of buying a smart telecope. Of course, you can't compare it with a full blown astrophotography kit. Who is going to invest in Pixinsight that costs as much as the entire Seestar to tinker with Seestar images? A smart telescope is an automated/fully integrated EAA tool. Just push a button and go. Quick and easy. But the limitations.... Therefore I am thinking to invest in some sort of portable EAA kit, alt-az mount (no need for polar alignment, just level like the seestar), simple uncooled astrocamera and a laptop which I both already happen to have (ASI294MC). For the scope: May be something like a Skywatcher virtuoso (6" goto). And use very short exposures like 5 seconds. The scope / mount costs about the same as the Seestar. The thing is /relatively/ small and light, certainly compared to my 12" dob. Sure: a lot more buttons to push compared to a smart telescope. But sharpcap does platesolving as well. The virtuoso has much better light collecting capabilities and has a focal length of 750 mm at F5. It is certainly more flexible, and parts can be replaced. You can also invest in simple focal reducer or a barlow. And finally, There is the learning curve: but thats part of the fun isn't it? May be, just may be, I will consider that Virtuoso as a birthday present..... I could always use it side-by-side with my dobbie....

You can plug the Seestar into computer and download all the images for stacking in your preferred software. I can easily improve the over punchy image on the Samsung tablet I use. Also, now that I am over 70 I can't stop my eyes watering when looking through an eyepiece in a British winter. With the Seestar I can sit in my conservatory and watch the view slowly improve and enjoy a coffee at the same time in total comfort.

What is the cost difference between the S50 and your other astrophotography rig??