Harvard and UNC's lawyers spend so much time minimizing the advantage race gives applicants. If the advantage is so miniscule, why bother with it, at all?

@alpal87

Жыл бұрын

Well said!

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

"Methinks they protest too much..." They know that they are actively discriminating against better qualified Asian and White applicants.

@arctain1

Жыл бұрын

one of the justices needs to NOW ask - if the race tick mark is removed, what impact to diversity would be realized? since it is one of many...

@philbert410

Жыл бұрын

very well said

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

@@arctain1 This is largely a show trial as most if not all of the Justices already know how they are going to vote. This is more for the public. This is not a new concept and the Justices have been studying it for a long time.

Roberts got the lawyer to admit that Harvard admits or rejects qualified applicants on the basis of race. This will be interesting.

@indonesiaamerica7050

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but it's Anti Rejection because it's Equity and Antiracism. I'm sure it's also Antifascist. They have no KKK Racist motive. LOL. That's what I heard him struggle to say. "Hey, we're nothing like the KKK". They're more like white "supremacist" racist Progressives of about 100 years ago. Like Hugo Black. FDR's first SCOTUS Justice and a KKK member with proper Prog bona fides.

@robbythecuban

Жыл бұрын

I love listening to liberals squirm under the weight of their own illogic. It’s like candy.

@LegoAnimationGuy1

Жыл бұрын

I was a kid listening to my grandfather, uncle and father debating politics. What's been happening is exactly why Goldwater didn't want the current system baked into the law. The concerns then are manifesting today. It is interesting to see the same debate occurring 50 years later. But if it is rejected, I see many problems accepting it. When there was last a supreme court opening, I suggested online that if we followed the quota system we should nominate a Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Alaskan, Pacific Islander, or Philippine native. All are/were under the quota while blacks were represented close to quota. I was called racist! o.O I expect problems when that kind of nonsense exists.

@FamilyManMoving

Жыл бұрын

Yes, and it is all they needed to affirm that affirmative action is facially unconstitutional. Waxman (Harvard lawyer) knows what's at stake. You could hear it in his voice when he could no longer equivocate. Now the real question is whether the majority opinion will be limited ("as applied") to the school admissions, or takes the much broader approach of "facially" declaring benefit based on race to be unconstitutional. That would change a lot of things. There are entire programs within the Small Business Administration, for instance, that grant automatic "advantaged" status based on race. While it is theoretically possible for a white male to get SBA 8a status, but they must prove beyond doubt they are socioeconomically disadvantaged. A black applicant need only check a box. Such firms get priority contracting, and special rules that make business with the government a lot easier. That philosophy exists throughout all of government, education, and even private employment. If this court makes declares race-based advantages "facially" unconstitutional - meaning "under no circumstances" - all of that would be impermissible. So yeah, this might turn out - as you say - interesting.

@TetelestaiAD33

Жыл бұрын

@@FamilyManMoving If Affirmative Action is unconstitutional in college admissions, it is unconstitutional everywhere else it is applied. A limited ruling is only kicking the can down the road. It will be back before them with the precident this sets. Do your job right the first time and you don't have to do it twice.

Justice Roberts, “isn’t that what the case is about discrimination against Asian Americans at Harvard? Yes, yes it is.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

@@kaipo8085 It was more about preserving the country as a whole and preserving Northern domination over the South. Few people in the South owned slaves and were fighting for it. In the North few people were abolitionists or fought to free slaves. Both sides had to implement a draft because of apathy among the population. Most Republicans of the time did not want to fight a war over slavery, they advocated a peaceful end to it and not one that use compulsion.

@gunzmith29r

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffreyrichard2575 wrong

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

@@gunzmith29r one word reply. wow massive intellectual argument there

@brucehutch5419

Жыл бұрын

@@kaipo8085 . We fought the Civil War about-- drum and Fife cores.

@brucehutch5419

Жыл бұрын

@James Scott . And World War II was fought as a consequence of and over the Smoot Hawey Tariff of 1930. To make as much sense as the lawyer who is arguing this case with all his mumbo jumbo 1800 pages and graphs and charts that he couldn't explain

Harvard is discriminating against Asians, and no amount of sidestepping the issue will make their defense work.

@christianlibertarian5488

Жыл бұрын

Of course they are. I know it, you know, Asians know, Harvard knows it. They do it, and they have their reasons for it. So they should own it! If their reasons are valid (I can't see how they could be) then they should defend it. But they are trying to dodge the issue. Not a winning strategy.

@BartholomewSmutz

Жыл бұрын

@@christianlibertarian5488 If Harvard was straightforward and admitted that without race being a factor in admission almost none of the 15% of African American students or the 12% of Hispanic students would make the cut and that the Asian enrollment which is currently at 27% would jump to approximately 50% this would make them look bad also. So Harvard is "between a rock and a hard place" which is what usually happens when you're defending a position which is clearly unfair.

@bobblue_west

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't this support the notion that the difference is not skin color but cultural? Asian Am' populations are dedicated to self education.

@J4-4J-J4

Жыл бұрын

When race is priority, and topic of discussion is secondary - a basis for racial discrimination is created. It is a moral problem to discriminate based on race.

@dunyacaliskan7495

Жыл бұрын

and whites...

"We did not fight a civil war over oboe players" great quote

@dakotalucky13

Жыл бұрын

Best comment!

@IndigoGirl827

Жыл бұрын

I was going to add the same comment! Love it.

@bdavis1302

Жыл бұрын

We should though.. we should.

@PLoGro24

Жыл бұрын

So the civil war was over racial discrimination and slavery, now? Usually, you guys say it wasn't about that...

@sharpe52312

Жыл бұрын

@@PLoGro24 I would argue it was not over racial discrimination but to force the Southern states back into the union and eventually the goal became to end slavery.

And the lawyer said verbatim “Race for some highly qualified applicants can be the determining factor”. Case closed. End affirmative action!

@devin9559

Жыл бұрын

I heard that too and thought the same

@blantant

Жыл бұрын

@5:30

@catherinebourdon8258

Жыл бұрын

I winced when I heard that. His response acted as a clear admission!

@wgsmit02

Жыл бұрын

Wow if this is their defense they are cooked

@ChipNov1998

Жыл бұрын

I think the lawyer shot himself in the foot by saying race IS a factor. It doesn't matter whether it is one of many, just the fact that it is one of many means that the skin color of the applicant can be the deciding factor and therefore discriminatory. Turn the argument around. What if the skin color was one of many factors that determined a black person would NOT be admitted?

This lawyer keeps spinning with word salad...and not answering questions.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

that is what lawyers do when they have a losing case. Obfuscate with nonsensical arguments

@joew.1274

Жыл бұрын

yes cus he's using libtard logic

@Malignus68

Жыл бұрын

Both the lawyer representing UNC and the lawyer representing Harvard ended up floundering by the end of their arguments, because they were both trying their hardest to defend something that is indefensible.

@joew.1274

Жыл бұрын

@@Malignus68 yep they are defending degeneracy

@goatgoatgoatgoatgoatgoatgoatgo

Жыл бұрын

@Optaunix HAHAAHAH omg! where have you been?? we have been waiting for a comedian of your stature! where can we get tickets? 💩

You know what is not racist? Going to the library after school. Study groups on the weekends. Sitting in front of the class. Being present and taking good notes. Late nights studying. That is just good work ethic and who I want going to college and in top positions. That is what I did.

@JudgeCraven

Жыл бұрын

Marxists don’t care about your work ethic. They believe you’re work ethic should be redistributed amongst those who haven’t worked nearly as hard.

@gc6888

Жыл бұрын

SAT scores - take the best regardless of race or sexual orientation. Problem solved

@jamesharris184

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely you nailed it

@PETERJOHN101

Жыл бұрын

@@woosungkim7853 No admissions process can quantify such minutia in the life of students, your comment wreaks of Harry Potter fantasy building.

@jamesharris184

Жыл бұрын

@@woosungkim7853 No one disputes that. But they are challenging an indefinite privilege you get based on the color of your skin. As the arguments illustrate you could be a third generation Harvard family from a multi multi-millionaire family and you get a check mark just because of the color of your skin how is that in any way fair to anyone? The Civil War was fought over racism, affirmative action cannot go on endlessly. I just looked it up it was happening in 1877. When is enough enough?

Of course there is a benefit. That's why Sen. Warren checked the "Indigenous Peoples" box.

@bobblue_west

Жыл бұрын

Hey, I'd check I was a gay, trans-giraffe if I thought it would raise my admission chances.

@bosco_sticks

Жыл бұрын

And Mindy Kalings brother checked black

@derekboland5290

Жыл бұрын

Yes sir you are correct

@SweetSpot909

Жыл бұрын

the lawyer said you can put whatever you want as long as you honestly self identify as that. Why doesn't everyone put native American?

@bobblue_west

Жыл бұрын

@@SweetSpot909 Agree. Furthermore, what's to deny that self identification isn't "transient" or temporary? I self Id as female if the male toilet is in use. As I emerge I feel manly again.

They already admitted they wanted a diverse student body based on….wait for it…race.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

Diverse has only one meaning to them.....more blacks and benefits for blacks. Asians are perhaps the most "diverse" group of people on the planet. There is a wide spectrum of races, religions and cultures that are all Asian. Hindus Muslims Buddhists Taoist, Confusians Sikhs Jains Zoroastrians Etc. Dark skin brown skin light skin and yellow skin. To discriminate against them to promote "diversity" is a contradiction in terms.

@indonesiaamerica7050

Жыл бұрын

"But...nuance and stuff...wait...it's complicated..."

@RS-oq4wu

Жыл бұрын

Contrary to popular belief, race and IQ are highly genetically determined traits. Some are born to perform intellectually better than others. No amount of argument or games will change that fact. I can predict with high accuracy outcomes when I know the race of an individual. If you ignore this fact then I will always know more than you.

@indonesiaamerica7050

Жыл бұрын

@@RS-oq4wu LOL. You don't even know what fact means.

@RS-oq4wu

Жыл бұрын

@@indonesiaamerica7050 Apparently you do not.

If it's SUCH a small deciding factor, then you shouldn't have a problem without it. Question for the black students out there. Does it not piss you off that these "rules" imply you're not able to get into college without given a leg up?

@TheVitalover

Жыл бұрын

It's ironic because Clarence Thomas wrote about this back in the 70s. Thomas Sowell and other black intellectuals have noted how they feel looked down upon because it's perceived that they didn't earn it.

@jeremiahdavis360

Жыл бұрын

@@TheVitalover is right up there with thinking someone is not able to get id's due to their race. It's gotta be insulting.

@gingerthetrailpup7223

Жыл бұрын

I graduated HS in 1991. My friend won an award for being a Black National Merit Scholar. I congratulated her. I can remember to this day, she said that the award was stupid and meaningless. She said who cares if I am the best of the blacks. I want to be the best, period. That has stuck with me. I do not even remember if she was awarded a National Merit Scholar.

@speaksthis

Жыл бұрын

@@gingerthetrailpup7223 - If she was from a place like Baltimore it might have meant that she could read at grade level.

@jakethejeweler3092

Жыл бұрын

@@speaksthis wtf is wrong with you?

Harvard lawyer is so used to the liberal hivemind - he thought this would be a slam dunk.

@tomriggs699

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely, and Roberts killed his argument with the hypothetical at 4:14. The lawyer was starting to get flustered.

@richcook2007

Жыл бұрын

There is a difference between sitting with fellow Harvard lawyers and talking shit, and, entering the crucible of the SC.

@RS-oq4wu

Жыл бұрын

Contrary to popular belief, race and IQ are highly genetically determined traits. Some are born to perform intellectually better than others. No amount of argument or games will change that fact. I can predict with high accuracy outcomes when I know the race of an individual. If you ignore this fact then I will always know more than you.

@canyoucatchme138

Жыл бұрын

Not really liberal view point. What this lawyer is so used to, is defending his pay cheque. He will say anything, within reason, as long as he can get the justice to agree, to make sure his client wins, which is exactly his job. Obviously the honorable justice does not agree in this instance. 😂

@sharrpshooter1

Жыл бұрын

@@RS-oq4wu You wanna know a fun fact? As someone who LITERALLY STUDIES GENETICS, your right, both IQ and race are determined by genetics. HOWEVER that does NOT make them linked. I dont know where one earth you got the idea that they genes are linked by they are not, there is literally studies proving this point. Race and IQ are so far removed from each other its the same as saying that the size of someone thumb is predictive of the chance of someone developing schizophrenia. Race and IQ ARE NOT LINKED GENETICS. They are both determined by genetics, but they are independent of each other. Now I know you wont read this because I assume you are just trying to justify why you are racist and you want to feel superiors because you never have before in your life, but regardless, to anyone else reading this, dont be like this poor excuse of a man, do actual research and don't be racist, everyone is still human, regardless of skin color.

Of there is no advantage to affirmative action, as this lawyer states, then why are we in court? Just get rid of it.

"We did not fight a Civil War about oboe players."

@ContrarianExpatriate

Жыл бұрын

That was profound.

@torreyintahoe

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't want to debate Justice Roberts.

@podunkcitizen2562

Жыл бұрын

@@torreyintahoe Has he forgotten about the great oboe wars of 1898? LOL.

@podunkcitizen2562

Жыл бұрын

@@itzasweater9621You are so right, l stand corrected! I bow ( get it, bow?) to your superior knowledge. I believe the Stradivarius Offensive was a particularly bloody battle.

@bca21

Жыл бұрын

@@podunkcitizen2562 no sir. The italian devised stradivarius offensive was battled to a draw as the union couldn't bear to listen to the south playing dixie with their division of banjos and harmonicas.

They argue just a little bit of racism is ok because diversity is more moral. When I hire a doctor or lawyer I want the best, not one that was promoted because of race.

@SomeUserNameBlahBlah

Жыл бұрын

Let's not forget gender. Women benefit a lot from affirmative action.

@rogerstone521

Жыл бұрын

@@SomeUserNameBlahBlah There are more women in college than men. Do you think now we need to give men an advantage in entrance to college? I think not, let the best rise to the top.

@RS-oq4wu

Жыл бұрын

Contrary to popular belief, race and IQ are highly genetically determined traits. Some are born to perform intellectually better than others. No amount of argument or games will change that fact. I can predict with high accuracy outcomes when I know the race of an individual. If you ignore this fact then I will always know more than you.

@cjyoung4080

Жыл бұрын

dont u want a doctor opening u up to be watching "how to" youtube videos during the procedure?

@oahuhawaii2141

Жыл бұрын

The same thing applies to many other important positions, such as pilots, firefighters, EMTs, etc.

The common sense is that if you cannot answer a simple question, that means either you don't know the answer, or you don't want to give the answer. In this case, the Harvard lawyer knows very well that the holistic process is a racist process for the purpose to admit more favorited students.

@indonesiaamerica7050

Жыл бұрын

All of Critical Theory posits that you can't use (traditionally understood) "common sense" to come to "Equity". You need Woke Sense. Read about Gramsci's Prison Notebooks. That and Frankfurt School's Critical Theory is where all of this pseudoscientific (and many decades of circulus in probando) garbage comes from.

@truthwarrior122

Жыл бұрын

The Satanic left are master manipulators.

@siaf2398

Жыл бұрын

ISN'T THAT WHAT RACISM IS. admit ppl that they like based on community reasons ie white skin. which has been happening for years now, once overt, now covert and white ppl are simply trying. ONCE AGAIN. philosophize a way to allow racism. you don't go to a pedophile to quantify the harm they did or how to control that harm.

@rhainaweissehexe3899

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, the Admission Process itself is Racist if based heavily on a certain Race.

@siaf2398

Жыл бұрын

@@rhainaweissehexe3899 it was always based on a certain race since it's inception, and that race/skin color IS WHITE. they are attempting to correct that but WHITE folk are jumping up & down b/c they want to continue with that practice of white is right. `````RONG!!!

How about diversity at the NFL or NBA

@SteveXNYC

Жыл бұрын

The is a law that make black people greater than us.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

definition of diversity: give more to blacks So adding more diversity would mean more blacks in those sport leagues. Its not to benefit other races which are "under- represented"

@gunzmith29r

Жыл бұрын

@@SteveXNYC who is us?

@torreyintahoe

Жыл бұрын

@@gunzmith29r Normal white people.

@mvcharisma2968

Жыл бұрын

I have yet to see representation of a middle aged balding fat man on the NBA. Talk about discrimination 😂

Harvard's lawyer demonstrates perfectly how those who ascribe to identity politics and policies have to talk in circles, never able to hide the truth, that it's the very definition of discrimination.

@svarupa

Жыл бұрын

when smart people defend stupid policy they also become stupid.

@RS-oq4wu

Жыл бұрын

Contrary to popular belief, race and IQ are highly genetically determined traits. Some are born to perform intellectually better than others. No amount of argument or games will change that fact. I can predict with high accuracy outcomes when I know the race of an individual. If you ignore this fact then I will always know more than you.

@joelhjd

Жыл бұрын

His best argument is a bad argument. It's not really his fault. Academic "Diversity" is the only reason SCOTUS has allowed this kind of racial discrimination thus far. Harvard and UNC's lawyers are stuck arguing a POV they know will utlimately fail.

@natecoleman7985

Жыл бұрын

He wants to engage in a circular conversation and it’s not working to his benefit in this instance.

@rrickarr

Жыл бұрын

Jeff: America has practised this since the day of its founding!

"We did not fight a civil war about oboe players. We did fight a civil war to eliminate racial discrimination." That my friends is solid reasoning. ;)

@humusandoil1300

Жыл бұрын

A knock-out statement from the CJ.

@TPR-wx1yj

Жыл бұрын

Fairly, that is the weakest argument the CJ made this whole segment- namely because it requires the principle that “we must treat race differently as a factor of consideration because we fought a war over it, despite the fact that both playing an underrepresented instrument and belonging to an underrepresented race are considerable factors.” So? Unless there’s a reasonable assumption that I’m missing, that doesn’t make sense. What CJ said essentially sidesteps the parallel the attorney was trying to make by introducing an irrelevant point. That was a cheap shot, not some esteemed example of exceptional reasoning

@mitchyoung93

Жыл бұрын

But 'we' didn't. The primary goal was the sacred (or 'sacred') Union and keeping it together. Getting rid of slavery was another goal. But the vast majority of even Unionists were okay with what today would be called racial discrimination.

@humusandoil1300

Жыл бұрын

Fourth stanza of Battle Hymn of the Republic (1861) reads: "As he died to make us holy, let us die that all be free!" That's what those Yankee boys were singing as they marched, fought and died.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

Except that we didn't fight a civil war to eliminate racial discrimination.

At 06:20 the lawyer basically states that skin color determines the diversity of everything other than skin color. His conclusion at about 08:15 is that 3 Black students having different viewpoints creates a learning experience for each of them. Essentially, the learning experience is that 3 humans with similar skin color can think differently. Oh my, what a revelation.

@tuomasholo

Жыл бұрын

You are on point!

@iguess2739

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for timestamping your criticisms

@zarbins

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I couldn't believe when he said that. I had to listen to it again. It was a "learning moment" that 3 black students had differing perspectives? Racist much?

@mkjohnson7826

Жыл бұрын

I caught that, too. I’m surprised the Judges didn’t say anything about it. I hope someone else on the bench caught it and pound out just how racist the statement is. But, that’s liberals for you….

@iguess2739

Жыл бұрын

@@mkjohnson7826 this comment is not showing up

So the lawyer's argument is that they aren't discriminating on the basis of race, and that their affirmative action policy does not provide any significant benefit to black applicants based on their race? Why are they fighting all the way to the Supreme Court to keep that policy in place, then?

@PETERJOHN101

Жыл бұрын

Because the Marxist ideology of race, class, and ethnic division is the key to destruction of the American educational system. If they can destroy our institutions of higher learning, no future warfare will be necessary.

@acloserlook5823

Жыл бұрын

Somebody was ruled to have standing, otherwise they could not have taken the case.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

The Supreme Court always publishes the briefs, so I can tell you what they are arguing about: there is a long line of precedent that permits consideration of race in addition to a number of other factors, and previous Courts have ruled that a limited use of race in that way was legal as long as things like legacy admissions weighed so strongly against all non-Europeans. Seth Waxman, who was Solicitor General and is in front of the Court all the time, is arguing that the criteria for using race in a limited way was clearly met by Harvard's admissions policy. Well, now you can guess what the other side is arguing: they believe the line of precedent that allows using race should be overturned. The lead attorney for the other side is a U of Chicago and Cambridge (UK -- that Cambridge) grad who once considered becoming an astrophysicist. This gives you an idea of the brainpower applied to this case. What is at stake also is that Harvard can forgo federal funding. It's a private school, and can continue its admissions policies exactly as they are, as long as it accepts no federal funds. Its policies are not the type that would easily trigger scrutiny under other federal laws. So, in the end, it's about the money. The big question is why Harvard grads are so heavily advantaged for the rest of their lives. Chief Justice Roberts was a Harvard undergrad and Harvard Law graduate. He really did do well in school his whole life, however, and he wasn't admitted as a legacy. He actually worked in a steel mill one summer.

@acloserlook5823

Жыл бұрын

@@l.w.paradis2108 it should be noted that long standing precedent has been routinely overturned when a litany of counter intuitive rulings have stacked up to the point where the issue must finally be addressed. Roe is only the latest example of this foundational tradition. The only brainpower that even need be applied is the simple observation of such discrepancies. It is equally possible that the original exception was errant to begin with, is it not?

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

@@acloserlook5823 Absolutely it is. But if you see how those cases were written, then you can figure out why they turned out the way they did at the time they were decided. The briefs in this case are actually fascinating and are worth the time to read. I was surprised that the petitioners, representing Asian students, were so direct in their request that those cases be overturned. This isn't an easy case, and everyone called in their top guns for a reason. (EDIT: "at" changed to "that")

They must be paying this attorney large amounts of money to stand before these justices and look like a fool. He's admitted more than once in this conversation that it's about race.

I am a black man and as my friend often says, 'we do not need a black or white cat, we need a cat that can catch the rat.' Period!

@alahiri22

11 ай бұрын

My electrician is black, and I hire him for all my work because he is the best (and not because he is black)... Meritocracy is the least racist system of all

Affirmative Racism discriminates against anyone who does get the advantage. I think the proper punitive action would be to nationalize Harvard's huge untaxed endowment. Tax them at 100%.

@highlandertick22

Жыл бұрын

If that’s case, tax the fucking church too

With his focused questions, Roberts is admirably displaying some enviable credibility. Hopefully, this legal acumen will continue.

Roberts: Are you discriminating based on race? Lawn: Look at my tap dancing skills..

As a whole, Asian families (which are more intact with both parents) stress education, hard work and results. Everything else is secondary. Maybe a lack of success in school has to do with culture.

@user-bu6sd4td3x

Жыл бұрын

@@cecig1719 it has very much to do with culture. Some culture value education so much more

@18890426

Жыл бұрын

nature or nurture??

@kimanimzalendo367

Жыл бұрын

Not maybe. This is demonstrably true.

@kimanimzalendo367

Жыл бұрын

Immigrant two parent African families also tend to do very well in education. It's much more a discipline/focus/culture/behavior/application thing than race

@duermedespierto

Жыл бұрын

It has a lot to do with how education is seen in each racial group. In general, Asian cultures place a high value on education in contrast to Black Americans who generally don't stress the value of education as much. Most immigrants value education and hard work. For example, in general, Nigerian students tend to be more successful than Black Americans because they value education and hard work.

it's painful to hear the struggle that they go through to justify racism.

@noblelies

10 ай бұрын

It's certainly racist for Harvard to want its school to actually look like the American demographic but not racist for Indian, Chinese and Korean universities refuse to admit foreigners because they want their schools to look like their nations.

So basically what they’re saying is it’s OK to discriminate against white people. But isn’t that discrimination. Why don’t you take the best students no matter what color they are

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

white and Asian. The top candidates are generally Asians followed by whites.

@chronographer

Жыл бұрын

He said 'It's okay to discriminate against asians, it also makes practically no difference to the outcomes, but also we do NOT want to get rid of this thing that apparently has no effect'. hmmmm

@tab5470

Жыл бұрын

💯

In other words it’s blatant discrimination.

@humanperson5153

Жыл бұрын

yeah, pretty much

@taramiller3236

Жыл бұрын

Whites are so privileged, it doesn't matter.. Asians are too smart for their britches, so those are justifications.

@Raptor-bt6zp

Жыл бұрын

@@taramiller3236 bull

@taramiller3236

Жыл бұрын

@@Raptor-bt6zp do you understand satire🥰

@Raptor-bt6zp

Жыл бұрын

@@taramiller3236 try again

If it's "wrong" for a Baker to "discriminate" based on religious beliefs.. wouldn't it be even worse for Harvard to "discriminate" based on Race??

@joelhjd

Жыл бұрын

It's not necessarily wrong for anyone to discriminate based on anything depending on context. But it is unconstitutional for the government to discriminate based on Race with a few (hopefully even fewer soon) exceptions.

@nuckinfutzsf822

Жыл бұрын

The Bakers were refusing to do something directly against their beliefs. They would have sold them a birthday cake so they were not discriminating against the customer for their "identity."

Did he just lose the case right there, when he said he concedes that race can be the determining factor?

@SweetSpot909

Жыл бұрын

i think he said it and new he made a mistake.

@ISpitHotFiyaa

Жыл бұрын

If it couldn't be the determining factor then why even argue the case? Just get rid of affirmative action if it isn't having any effect. Why spend millions on lawyers for something that doesn't matter?

@SweetSpot909

Жыл бұрын

@@ISpitHotFiyaa that was exactly the justices argument. Alito asked him does it make a difference or not? The Harvard lawyer said it makes something like an statically insignificant difference or some phrase he used. Then Alito said why use it at all then if it doesn't make a difference in the application process? The Harvard lawyer said because they have to sort through 60k applications for 1600 spots which is essentially admitting they use the personal score to nerf on average otherwise exceptional Asian applications (grades, test scores and extra circular) and boost as a whole otherwise very good but not super exceptional Hispanic and Black students. It's racist and Black and Hispanics students don't deserve to have their place at Harvard quietly questioned and affirmative action overshadowing their merit.

@connor7048

Жыл бұрын

@@SweetSpot909 Doing away with affirmative action is not going to stop Black and Hispanic students from having their place questioned and overshadowing their merit. Affirmative action is not what planted the idea that minority students don't deserve their success, that's actually what systemic and institutional racism has done. Affirmative action has just become what has been used as an excuse to be racist.

@SweetSpot909

Жыл бұрын

@@ISpitHotFiyaa Harvard has spent approximately 30 million dollars defending itself.

No one ever mentions the fact that students given preferential admission into programs they aren't actually qualified for end up dropping out at a much higher rate. Not only does it hurt the student who should have gotten that spot, it hurts the person who did, since neither one ends up getting a degree from that school.

@gingerthetrailpup7223

Жыл бұрын

Yup. The 6 year college drop off rate: Native American 41% Blacks 40% Hispanics 30% White 22% Asian 17% Is affirmative action really helping people succeed or reaffirming failure?

@speaksthis

Жыл бұрын

Not necessarily true. Form your argument more accurately. Being so far off from truth doesn't help the truthful side of the argument.

@jamesbarca7229

Жыл бұрын

@@speaksthis Maybe you should try taking your own advice...

@LegoAnimationGuy1

Жыл бұрын

I dissuaded my kids from applying to an Ivy League school and my daughter really wanted to go there. As a white, there's no point because we don't have connections or come from the "right" families. Same with working for the FBI. I was flat out told my kids didn't stand a chance unless they knew someone or had an accounting degree. Sorry, but that's racism. If only elite whites get into these places (in the majority of cases), the elites are controlling the white race as well.

@speaksthis

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesbarca7229 - I aim to help the feeble of mind. Let me help you. Just because someone wasn't admitted to Harvard doesn't mean they did not go to a different university. Just because someone dropped out of Harvard doesn't mean they did not get a degree elsewhere. Sorry to make it so obvious for you, but you should be happy that at least 21 people gave you a thumbs up without thinking about what you wrote. I know, comments are not much more than popularity contests for a set of DDs, or the like.

This lawyer is wasting the Court's time. Maybe Harvard, among others, should use their huge endowments to write off defaulted student loan debt instead of pawning it off on the rest of us.

@sylvasia8287

Жыл бұрын

good point

Merit merit and merit. Period.

Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who it is directed against. Two wrongs don't make a right.

To be fair to the lawyers they have an almost indefensible position and only have weak arguments to support it. It's hilarious watching them tie themselves in knots as they play down the import of race based considerations (discrimination) whilst simultaneously arguing why it's so important that it should remain. They also like to say that race isn't the only consideration even though the fact remains that it's still a consideration that can disadvantage others based on race the most significant being Asians.

@v12vanquish

Жыл бұрын

Yah lawyers get the job either way. Excellent respect for the amount of work they have todo.

@alesh2275

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t go that far: it’s obvious some lawyers, and certainly this one, disdain equal protection under the Constitution and think it is their duty NOT to adhere to the Constitution if doing so achieves their ideological objectives. It’s also obvious the disdain this particular lawyer reserves this particular US Supreme Court justice when, in several occasions, he only addresses the Justice as “You” (with a talking down tone) and not as “Your Honor”.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

Most arguments on the left are indefensible. They are based on feelings and ideology not on facts or reason.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

@@alesh2275 First of all, Harvard is private, so it does not have to abide by the Equal Protection clause. In fact, the First Amendment freedom of association gives it a lot of leeway in how it determines admissions. What Harvard cannot do is accept federal funds and use impermissible racial criteria to determine any applicant's admission. Up until now, there was a line of Supreme Court cases that allowed limited use of race in addition to other factors, for the purpose of building a diverse class (private schools all do this, starting with private kindergartens). Waxman was arguing that Harvard meets these criteria. The other side wants the whole line of precedent that permits using race in college admissions to be overturned -- or to force Harvard to stop accepting federal funds, and admit whoever it wants on its own dime.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

@@alesh2275 Seth Waxman was Solicitor General. These guys all know each other since forever.

Gotcha!!! The lawyer said it: "it is simply not the case that EVERY black applicant gets at 'tip"". That statement sounds to me that by implication that THERE HAVE BEEN CASES when black kids do get a "tip".

@reasedogable

Жыл бұрын

So and there have been cases where white kids get a tip

"Page 1,811 of the joint appendix ..." Time for an appendectomy.

@derp4285

Жыл бұрын

welcome to federal court

The supreme court is going to overturn affirmative action. The colleges,on the other hand, will continue to enroll whoever they want by placing a heavy emphasis on student essays. They are so subjective no lawsuit could overcome that

@speaksthis

Жыл бұрын

True. They can simply, underhandedly or not, give more points for being in the BLMGBTQ+ club than being in Honor Society.

@LegoAnimationGuy1

Жыл бұрын

@@speaksthis Or from the "right" family.

@southerner66

Жыл бұрын

I believe University of California admissions departments were found still to be using race under the radar for admissions decisions after Californians voted to ban its use in the UC system in 1996. As we've heard in these bizarre answers, the admissions process is anything but transparent. They will continue to try to game the result not matter what SCOTUS says. It's part of their organizational culture.

@jd7313

Жыл бұрын

Statistics over time can easily prove if the schools are using essays to racially discriminate. When proven, I can't wait for massive billion dollar law suits against the schools.

@joshhoward1289

Жыл бұрын

💯

5:52. "We did not fight a civil war about oboe players". CJ Roberts knocks it out of the park 😀

I'm Asian (ethnically Bangladeshi) and didn't get into Harvard despite a perfect SAT and ACT score and a GPA throuh the roof. I got into Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, Cal Tech, Cornell, Columbia, Chicago, MIT, etc. I'm a senior at MIT now and starting grad school at Harvard for business. Goal after that is Harvard Law

@rubygreby1473

11 ай бұрын

Why was grad school in business easier to get into?

@nothingworks230

11 ай бұрын

Born Bangladeshi of born in the us?

@IVIastodon

11 ай бұрын

@@nothingworks230 born in the US of a

@wallihaley5194

11 ай бұрын

Why not skip business school and just go to law school.

@IVIastodon

11 ай бұрын

@@wallihaley5194 I didn't know I wanted to do law

"I bring the attention of the court to page 1811 of the joint appendix which includes this beautiful chart which represents an undisputed model". Today I had a glimpse at what the combination of Harvard and bureaucracy consists of. Now we know where that tuition money is going.

Now I see what they mean by systemic rascism.....

@connor7048

Жыл бұрын

Systemic racism is having entire communities be withheld the vital resources needed to succeed, which in turn inhabits people from accessing the tools they need to be able to succeed, which led to policies such as Affirmative Action in order to right the wrongs done to those communities.

@taramiller3236

Жыл бұрын

@@connor7048 evidence? You guys never have evidence.....eh? Last week someone claimed Miami was underwater.. talking points aren't real. .

@connor7048

Жыл бұрын

@@taramiller3236 Black people are twice as likely to be unemployed than White people, Significantly lower amount of Black families are homeowners than White families, Black people are twice more likely to be poor than White people. In 2014, median Black household income was about $43,300, while White household income was about $71,300. In almost every facet of society, Black people are at a higher disadvantage than White people. (Pew Research Center).

@taramiller3236

Жыл бұрын

@@connor7048 if you are unemployed, it's by choice....if you are on welfare, you don't need college! If you are not a homeowner, that typically means you don't have good credit, you live on welfare or you don't have as down payment. The first two are your fault, the third requires some savvy way to make money for a down payment, like 2 jobs, borrow from family, get into a govt. program that helps... Solved. If you are white and make that much money, it means you planned for it, not because you're lucky. I have a worthless nephew who got his first job at 35, that's 20 years later than I did. I'm not expecting him to buy anything. Mommy paid for everything. He's probably an ace at video games! ( Life research)......life is what you make it, not what you can rip off of other people.....race doesn't make you lazy or irresponsible, you do! People who get a leg up and are not responsible, waste it. I can give you hundreds of examples. Stop drinking the Kool aid 😰

That guy was dancing better than Fred Astaire.

These hearings are very interesting and enlightening. IT sheds a light on reverse discrimination.

The LAST thing Harvard wants is diversity of thought. Talk about a political hive mind of one thought.

@JB4C89

Жыл бұрын

100%

"I'm attempting to answer your question." No, Mr. Waxman, you're attempting to avoid it. I don't think you fooled anyone.

So Harvard wants diversity not excellence. Great stance for an establishment that built its reputation on excellence in law

This attorney makes about as much sense as Baywatch dialogue!

If Roberts asked this guy if it's raining outside he would get a 10 minute word salad about meteorology while trying to not answer the question directly

@johntru8301

Жыл бұрын

It goes along with something like this," if you take a look quickly at page 600 in the book of meteorology to your left, article 16 15 rows below article 1, row 25 in article 16. There is a beautiful chart on the left of that row numbered 25. That this that tells you about the weather. The weather is a complicated subject and the chart says that the subject on weather is difficult. But if we look closesly at the data, which is complicated, the chart is that rain is an effect of weather... outside. So by this definition, your honor, it is what it says. So yes but no. Thankyou"

The most disturbing part about the discrimination outlined by the lawyer...... is that he pretends as if the Committee who decides which applicants get into the school "ALREADY THINK THEY KNOW" what view points count as desirable viewpoints for diversity worthy enough to count as extra points on the application process. That means, by definition....... they are discriminating based on whether you match their bigotry for the point system. The point system, itself, means they are not about diversity..... they are about uniformity and obedience to the point system of which opinions are allowed to get into the school or not. Not only should the supreme court find the policy unconstitutional..... but the local law enforcements authorities in that state should be putting those administrators in prison.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

Constitutionality isn't an issue. Harvard is a private university, and its admissions are protected by First Amendment freedom of association. Their problem is that they accept a *ton* of federal funding, which means their admissions can be scrutinized. A limited use of race in admissions has been legal up until now, based on a long line of Supreme Court cases. The other side wants that precedent overruled and to have all use of race declared illegal for any university accepting government funds. The briefs are really interesting. The Court always publishes them.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

In prison, huh? Did anyone go to jail for banning Henry Miller, or Hustler magazine, or the musical Hair? How about for refusing to register the marriage of an interracial couple? Or running a segregated pizza parlor? 🤣🤣🤣

@laertesindeed

Жыл бұрын

@@l.w.paradis2108 You're being a buffoon. Don't start a sentence by saying "isn't an issue" and then proceed to repeat how it is an issue. You contradicted and invalidated your reply.

@laertesindeed

Жыл бұрын

@@l.w.paradis2108 You're failed attempt at an argumentum absurdum is further evidence of your buffoonery. Every single example listed "should" have gone to prison. Absolutely. Irrefutably. Undeniably. Your reply was of no value whatsoever.

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

@@laertesindeed All right, so you will try to string together words you may not understand to console yourself. Please do. Your feelings about criminal law have nothing to do with reality, but they are your feelings. No argument there.

There IS a lot to be said about that discrimination Counselor.That's why they'll be calling you "legless " in the breakroom. You don't have one to stand on.

Attorney: Justice Roberts, help yourself to some poop brownies. 💩 Roberts: But... there's poop in them. Attorney: There's only _teeny tiny_ bit though.

@ASDFUIL

Жыл бұрын

The poop is considered holistically as one of many factors.

@jimbojackson4045

Жыл бұрын

@@ASDFUIL 😂

5:40 is the point where the case tanks for Mr. Harvard.

wow 5:45. Roberts got this guy to admit their defeat.

As a former Ivy League adjunct professor I can regale you with stories of how committed my Asian students were in class. For them to be denied admission in order to award a lesser qualified black student the seat because of social justice is unmitigated garbage. Set the bar of qualifications and judge everyone by the same standards.

Just remember this year. Merit is not equity. Equity is total word salad BS. Before doing anything life threatening in next year look at where that professional went to school.

Thomas Sowell said some students are not meant for some universities , as Latino I want to be accepted for my qualifications and not because of the color of my skin. Many minorities struggle in top universities and are better to attend a college that suits them academically.

IF YOUR COLLEGE DISCRIMINATES. CLOSE DOORS

I will say, every once in a while he shows you why he is still the Chief Justice. Brilliant 👏

How did you go so quickly from It not being legal to discriminate based on skin color to requiring discrimination based on skin color? My life turned out pretty good but when I was young, I was excluded from being able to get a job with the postal service and twice with the fire department only because I was white. I was told on my second year try to get in the fire department by a black man that was the head of the fire department that he was sorry and that I was the most qualified applicant but he was forbidden to hire white men. He could only hire minorities and women. It turned out fine for me but how many lose hope because they are told they are not wanted just because of their skin color. I would guess it is about how black people felt before they made laws to not discriminate.

Yes, Harvard is & has been racially discriminating your Honor, but they had a good reason. A very VERY GOOD reason... In this case on a Tuesday if it's cloudy but not raining, and 3 African-American students have differing experiences or opinions then other students might learn something from the exchange. Yeah, Paging Brandon Let's Go Brandon!

I had an Asian friend back apply to Harvard back in the 2000s that was adopted and had a unique non-Asian last name. He "accidentally" filled in the bubble for Native American to stand out and got in. Harvard kicked him out in the 1st month he got there for lying on his application. He ended up going to another "lesser" Ivy League university the following year as "Asian". True story.

Lord Acton ,English historian said it best: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. " These people have created a good old boy network and feathered each other's nests accordingly. It is important that people like you bring these things up and explain why it matters to challenge this corruption. People are tempted to throw their hands up and declare that the government has always sucked. No government is perfect but ours works surprisingly well if we get involved. Thanks to you and Mr.Murrow (a hero of my journalist father) for this presentation 💙

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

Why should race matter in college..they are supposed to be there to learn..regardless of race..

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

There are huge benefits for being admitted to a top tier school. Millions of dollars in lifetime earnings. Should go to the best candidate regardless of race, gender or religion.....or past discrimination policies.

Did that lawyer really say to turn to page 1000 something? Jesus save us al.

@edlarmore5958

Жыл бұрын

It was p. 1800 something. Of an *appendix*!

This lawyer is actually speaking to the court as he would address a high school basic English course!! Not sure if this is normal but sure it shocking!

Lost me at “I’ll direct the court’s attention to page 1811” lmao

In all these clips the lawyers for Harvard claim they are not discriminating which means why bother? It makes no sense to create entire departments that track and report on these statistics, create a system that allows for subjective influence on admissions, and then claim its all NOT being done to try and change who is admitted into Harvard based on the very thing you are tracking, training on, reporting on, etc.

5:50 Roberts "Yeah, but we did not fight a civil war about oboe players." This had be cracking up. Beautifully put.

just listening to Harvard's lawyer makes me want to throw up. He is arrogant.

@latlj1283

Жыл бұрын

He is WAXMAN...

Yes!!!

Sounds racist. Its not. Doesn't it effect the applicant? No, it doesn't. Then why do it in the first place? Triage. (That thing you do when trying to decide who to treat first........?) It is racist. Always has been .

@TuhljinTampergauge

Жыл бұрын

"Triage doesn't affect the patient, your honor. It only affects whether we treat the patient and thus save his life." 🤡

Quibbling, equivacation, double-talk, and gas lighting in the Supreme Court. LOL.

Aren't these the same people that say intent is irrelevant if the outcome is biased?

Incredible the lawyers are trying to argue there is no discrimination taking place, when it is the very basis for the case.

“Don’t you think that’s a bit stereotypical?” “No.” “Oh! Then what are we even here for? Case dismissed.”

@jaik195701

Жыл бұрын

Condescending toward the Chief Justice of the United States.

So….the analogy of the three black guys that all had different thought on a topic is surprising (and educational) WHY???? Did someone think they all thought the same? Isn’t that like saying”they all look alike” bs….????

@joshhoward1289

Жыл бұрын

That’s the way democrats would lead you to believe…”if you ain’t black…”. They count on it. No group of people vote so homogeneously.

Equal Protection Clause.

Also get rid of the indefensible: Legacy admissions, nepotism, “donations” admissions, connections admissions, scholarships for sports that require wealth to participate in. That would eliminate many unqualified and undeserving students.

If Harvard accepted students based on the scores on the SATs and GPAs....from the top down, I wonder what would the incoming class would look like and subsequently achieve.

@GUAMANIANable

Жыл бұрын

It would like CalTech: 42% Asian, 28% White.

I came straight from Africa and I am against affirmative action, it gives me as a black person a bad name. People could question, am I an MD because of the color of my skin or based on merit. I prefer people to say I got to medical school based on merits.

Whoever gets the best test scores gets the nod. This is the fair way but we all know it does not work that way.

If it's not important, then why even have it be a factor?

It's just a little racism your honor. No harm done.

@humanperson5153

Жыл бұрын

jus a lil

@PETERJOHN101

Жыл бұрын

Smolletti style. 🤣

I came from a divorced mother with a 7th grade education. When I was in high school...she was a janitor at the other high school in town. My father buffed and cleaned the floors of the local government buildings. I dropped out of school in the 11th grade. My mother put herself through night school on janitor pay and it took her 12 years to get a nursing degree. My farther put himself through night school and eventually became the second highest paid government employee in the county and had an office on the top floor of that same government building where he use to buff the floors. I got my GED one year after dropping out...did seven years in the military...and went onto college and graduated top of my class with honors. I am white. White people do live in and overcome poverty all the time. And it has nothing to do with the color or our skin.

When somebody needs to learn their place, "I'm not asking for your Acceptance, I'm asking for your Defense."

Don’t ever pre-determined an outcome of a scotus case, on how they are questioning the lawyers.

I can't believe I am listening to an institution try to rationalize clear discrimination.

“Oh so there’s only a ‘little’ racial discrimination in the case.” 😂

Hard for me to listen to the obfuscation and arrogance of this Harvard bloke.

My goodness. Harvard's lawyer is getting quite snippy and borderline disrespectful to the Court here.

Boom!💥

If this is a Harvard Lawyer, then I am Elon Musk and Bezos combined.

@jeffreyrichard2575

Жыл бұрын

The concept is so backward and evil that even the best lawyer in the world would have a impossible time arguing it. Affirmative Action was created to placate blacks and relieve the while guilt of liberals. It directly contradicts the concept of equal protection under the law. It never should have been implemented in the first place and is just as wrongheaded as Jim Crow and segregation laws.

@Heart2HeartBooks

Жыл бұрын

He is an Affirmative Action Lawyer and student. I rest my case!

@l.w.paradis2108

Жыл бұрын

@@Heart2HeartBooks This is Seth Waxman, who was Solicitor General and has probably argued more cases in front of the Supreme Court than any other living lawyer. Chief Justice Roberts went to Harvard, too. They know each other well.

(2:40) It reflects a pattern that may or may not be real; however, Harvard reacts to it’s if it were real.

Think about what this means for medical schools.

I see strength in many of the youth, may your strength be given to serve a greater purpose. Unlike many of the current leaders. Proud of you that do right.

Basically this lawyers argument 'Harvard is not discriminating based on race, Harvard wants a variety of perspectives in its student body and we do that by discriminating on the basis of race.'