TL;DW - do you have infinite money? No? Buy the 4060 and never look back

@milescarter7803

13 күн бұрын

Forget infinite money, it's barely faster at all.

@mtrebtreboschi5722

13 күн бұрын

The 4000 ada is much better for productivity. rtx 2000 ada is probably closer to 4060 raw compute power (though its not a gaming card either so 4060 will probably beat it in games). It just came out 2 months ago. Its still double its price, but it has 3 benefits: half the power draw, double vram for productivity tasks with ecc, and nerdware is coming out with a modded cooler for it and the 4000 ada to make them single slot. This can't be done with the 4060 because of the cooling for its power draw and its stacked 2 slot i/o, making the 2000 and 4000 ada the only performant options for certain sff 1 slot cases

@sparkie5571

13 күн бұрын

@@mtrebtreboschi5722was VERY disappointed to see it be 2slot only. so close.. so close

@PlayingItWrong

10 күн бұрын

I'd argue both are a bad deal.

@manitoba-op4jx

7 күн бұрын

i'd argue a 10 series is better value

Still waiting on a Voodoo 5500 benchmark :P

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

I was about to say "I know a guy".... then I saw the user name. Well played sir.

@fuzzymuppet1990

8 күн бұрын

This might be Mandela effect , but i remember sli was a passthough externaly on the rear of the case, but weren't the cards also powered by external power adapters? (wall worts) ?

"In the end, the conclusion should surprise nobody". True. But I still appreciate the time you took to prove it.

@DigitalJedi

13 күн бұрын

Precisely. Even if it's pretty obvious to us enthusiasts, somebody actually building a tiny workstation might not be so clued in, and now this information directly comparing them exists.

The 4000 was almost perfect! ✅ Lots of memory ✅ Bus powered ✅ ECC memory ✅ Small form factor ❌vGPU support for Prodmox Jeff - please tell me you have a fix for the last one. 😅

@xpatrikpvp

13 күн бұрын

Nope, nvidia started using SR-IOV for vgpu from ampere so the unlock does not work for it....

@omid4861

13 күн бұрын

Is Vgpu. = passtrough ?

@ryanvoots9827

13 күн бұрын

Not quite. Vgpu is all about splitting the gpu into multiple virtual gpus (that can then be passed through). Passthrough otherwise works on basically everything these days (barring weird bugs)

@Baulder13

13 күн бұрын

@@xpatrikpvp So my A2000 12GB from work doesn't work with vGPU on proxmox as well? For god's sake nVidia what the hell.

@TheSFFV

13 күн бұрын

As an added note vGPU has been typically available on quadro 5000 and 6000 or higher when there was a 8000. The thing is to inlock vGPU is also requires a software license from Nvidia.

As a SFF only builder who appreciates low wattage draw and reduced heat generation, thank you very much for the comparison. As a non gamer, I would appreciate some photo processing speed comparisons such as RAW to JPEG time for 50 to 100 images.

@spakeschannel

13 күн бұрын

Doesn't that usually use CPU though?

@marksulloway5669

13 күн бұрын

@@spakeschannel Depends on the software.

@spakeschannel

13 күн бұрын

@@marksulloway5669 Well, I dunno about Capture One, but I'm pretty sure Lightroom uses CPU for exporting.

@ffwast

18 сағат бұрын

Just downclock a more reasonably priced gpu.

I got my 4060 LP back in September - I had to order it from the states via Amazon UK. It's pretty damn good for such a small card.

@noth606

13 күн бұрын

Curious - do you need a SFF GPU? Personally, I don't... I'd like to need one, in the sense that the machine I'll be picking up probably an A2000 for soon isn't SFF and the reason is most of all price, not only, but mostly. I have a Dell T5810 with a 14core, 96Gb ram currently, 5xGbe NIC's, a quad M.2 SSD card, and a Quadro P4000.

@Spreadie

13 күн бұрын

@@noth606 What an odd question - nobody *needs* a SFF gaming GPU. I chose to build a 4 litre low power gaming rig and the 4060 LP is clearly the best choice for that use case.

You do GPU reviews correctly. The way they should be and i really appreciate that.

@TheKazragore

13 күн бұрын

What's your definition of "correct"? I believe there is a discussion video on this channel with Steve from Hardware Unboxed on that topic.

Been waiting for this since the announcement 😁 Keep it up man! Loving the content 👌

Shuttle PC lol that brings back memories. Those piped heatsinks were cool though.

@scudsturm1

13 күн бұрын

they are still around or not?

@Dom_Mason

13 күн бұрын

@@scudsturm1 I guess so look over on shuttlecomputers lol.

Thank you very much for this comparison!

This is the video I've been waiting for, Thank you

Great video Jeff!

While on its face this comparison may seem crazy, it’s the exact comparison we all would have done in our heads. Thanks for making the magic happen, as always!

Would like to see how the rtx 2000 Ada Generation 16gb stacks up in the SFF lineup

@FS-zt6tm

13 күн бұрын

slightly worse than the 4060 LP in gaming performance for double the price, not worth it

Great comparison! I'd be very interested to see how they compare in workstation type loads.

I see you post, i make my tea and start to watch with you. Cant drink, but I still enjoy!

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

I made tea a couple videos back :-)

Great review, informative, fun and relevant to a tech nerd like me.

I love your reviews and videos in general! Do you think you can through some Premiere, Davinci Resolve and Blender benchmarks in there for the future? This should stretch the Videomemory if done right.

Thank you for this, i hate how few video reviews/testings these A-Cards get.

Would be awesome to see you make a small form factor build around the 4060!

Great video Jeff. Any chance you'd be willing to do a comparison of the 2000, 4000, 4060 LP, and maybe any other LP/SFF cards you can get your hands on, in regards to their performance vs cost for things like video transcoding, CAD, 3D rendering? I'm working on building a small server on a budget for hosting Plex/Jellyfin for a handful of people (up to maybe 5 or 6 simultaneous streams, depending on cost) and I'm not sure yet which way I should go in regards to transcoding. Most of my content is stored in 4k and is streamed to a range of devices from tablets to TVs.

Thanks mate, this is interesting. 4060 LP owner, but have always wondered how it would stack up vs the 4000 Ada. Thought the latter would be well ahead, tbh!

You should review the new RTX 2000 ada alongside these. It just released in february and and you'd be the first to do a legitimate review of it as far as I can tell, but its half the price of the 4000 ada while still boasting a massive 16gb of vram.

@FS-zt6tm

13 күн бұрын

it's about double the price of the 4060 LP though and offers slightly worse gaming performance than the 4060. That 16GB of VRAM is the only thing that separates it from the 4060

I'd love to see you an ollama llm benchmark along side the games.

I'm certainly intrigued by the performance of other small GPUs, especially stuff that might only fit within a *single* expansion slot, though I doubt many others woould

Great video. is it possible to benchmark the fastest SFF gpu for AI inference tasks on LLM and SDXL. Let’s put the RTX4060lp vs RTX A2000-12GB vs RTX 4000 on the track. Really interested to see which gpu provides the $/perf value.

I bought one of these in September for a super skinny build. I think i paired it with a 7600x. Ran super hot until i flipped the CPU fan and used it as an exhaust. Very nice card for the size!

One question for you. Did you use the gaming setting on the RTX 4000 ada. NVidia builds profiles in the RTX XXXX Ada that allow it to run in gaming mode. I like how you mentioned that the RTX 4000 Ada is not a gaming card. Also the "Quadro" offers ISV certifications that are important for productivity and engineering applications. I think you should explain that a lot of the cost difference is in the ECC memory used in the "Quadro". Good overall review for gaming.

LOL, Quadro!! I love it! And, by the way, totally agree!

Hi there Jeff! It would be also interesting to see the difference between these two cards in a PCIe 3.0 system, as I think it is the one most people use as daily driver (if I am not mistaken). Another interesting thing to see is the gap between these cards and the RTX A2000 (both the 6 and 12 GB VRAM versions) for people that play games and do some kind of video editing.

I love the electric cost comparison

I have been genuinely interested in this graphics card as I have several 2u servers and plan to add one using the Silverstone 2u chasis for a cloud gaming machine and test out dedulication as I reinstall games fairly often and have friends over fairly often.

there is a intel sff form factor for its arc series, not saying it will be close but be interesting to see its numbers, especially with av1 encoding and decoding.

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

Yeah, I mentioned the A380. It struggles to keep up with even the RX 6400 in gaming. Definitely a decent option if you're looking for video encode/decode though.

Good Job, only missed the TEMP comparison

@Incommensurabilities

13 күн бұрын

14:14 what about those temps? I thought noise was missing though

@GerritTjaardAMarinus

13 күн бұрын

@@Incommensurabilities indeed also missing noise readings, to me it's obvious the blower fan makes more sound....

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

Both cards are virtually silent. You'd be hard pressed to hear either of them over your power supply fan.

Great video thanks a lot for the comparison. Which drivers did you use for the RTX 4000 ADA? By default it will install the professional drivers but it also works with "game ready" drivers for gaming GPUs.

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

I used the same driver version for both cards, not the 'Quadro' drivers.

That cooler is ADORABLE!

Got me a 4060LP back in January. Lots of power in a small package. I can finally game decent on my HTPC.

Very thankful for you doing these tests, we’re you able to undervolt the ada for higher clocks on average?

@sparkie5571

13 күн бұрын

Edit: $350 for the 4060 is crazy in comparison to the 4000 ada sff. i think no matter the difference in performance, $900 price difference could build me another pc or two

4:00 Correction. AD104 is the 4070, but not the 4080 unless you mean 4080 mobile. The desktop 4080 uses AD103.

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

You are correct.

I guess you didnt like the beer.... the glass was too full during the video!!!

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

Nooooo.... no no no no no. no.

Awesome video! Thanks for the numbers maurice Moss got a laugh :) Marsellus wallace was the boss and Jules Winefield was the "badmother fu...."

Thank you for this comparison! The other advantage of the 4000 ADA SFF is you don't need the PCIE cable so this will be easier to install into tiny SFF cases.

@NonStopMixaTron

13 күн бұрын

Could you compare these two cards in a few Blender rendering tests?

I like SFF. Great you did this comparison 😊👍

So when are you power modding the Quadro? Should be the same as the a2000 that not from concentrate did a video on, alongside a supplementary power connector.

My supermicro server case doesn't have extra pcie power cables. basically two eps for the motherboard and a bunch of molex for the backplane. The 4000 SFF allows some decent passthrough gaming VM action.

Something you used to be able to do with old Quadro cards was disabling ECC for the memory on the card. Theoretically this was supposedly improving the memory performance. Don't know if the RTX 4000 use ECC for the memory or if it can be disabled. But if it does use ECC and it can be disabled then it might be interesting to see if it really changes performance.

Love this topic as I'm in the market for a SFF GPU to pair with a cheap old Dell office PC secondhand for purposes of building an Emulation box that can handle up to PS3 and Xbox 360. This 4060 LP could be just what I need.

will you test the new RTX 2000 Ada SFF?

Quite the unexpected and nice review tho! Cheers :)))

So voltage mod on the quadro when? I have an RTX A5000 in my personal rig and when I get the time I want to see what kind of monster it could become if allowed to draw anywhere close to it's consumer brethren.

Planning to run 3-4 of the Gigabyte 4060 SFF in the Asus ESC4000 G3 as a local LAN gaming setup. Been looking at buying these over the past month but now worried about availability after this lol. Otherwise i'll wait for turbo variants of the 3080 to finally come down in price to reality with the rest of the 3080s.

I would like to have a comparison in terms of 3D Archviz and Stable Diffusion of these two cards, especially in terms of 3dsmax UI speed and V-Ray performance and generation / scaling to 4k using Stable Diffusion🤔

@Rushil69420

13 күн бұрын

20GB of VRAM in the 4000 and basically 2x as many cuda cores. It’ll be interesting to see a direct comparison but I’m gonna guess that the 4000 trounces the 4060 in AI applications for those reasons alone.

The ADA card is a godsend for AI. You would be a silly goose to buy it for anything else. I would love to see AI benchmarks in your reviews since my personal homelab depends on AI services more and more. I bet I am not the only viewer who feels this way.

IIRC A2000 used to overclock nicely without the need to rise the voltage, have you tried it on this one?

I have a soft spot for a decently performing graphics card that doesn't require external power. Really wish we would get more updated options as such. I keep an old GTX 1650 laying around that I use for testing purposes on new system builds and occasionally playing with a low power system for fun.

(Just got to the end, rough glass this time, ‘thank you for your service’)

Can you test the Plex transcoding performance of the SFF, with its DUAL encoders? In x265 and AV1 please 🙏🙏

Waiting for RTX 2000 vs 4060 LP

Would love to know if there is a difference in transcoding between the cards, specifically on Plex

Comes down to if you need a blower style cooler or typical gpu style cooler.

I needed one that was bus powered (refurbished office/PoS unit that doesn't have PCIe aux power), so I was forced to go with a 3050 6GB. It's fine for what it is. Plenty of power for an old 6th gen intel CPU. I would have gone with an Arc A380 but I wanted CUDA capability for folding when I'm not using it.

Tasty video 👍 If 4060 draws little or no power from PCIe slot (dunno?), then maybe that's a tiny win rel. to Quadro, saving a smidge on wear and tear of mobo's power components. Down the road, similar replacement mobo probably harder (and costlier) to source than a PSU. Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.

With NV Clean Install, could you force install the Game ready driver and still use the Rtx 4000?

Just built a small formfactor 13400F system that would be killer with this class of card. From an efficiency stand point AND from a "tinkerer" / Homelab enthusiast standpoint, I am VERY curious as to how that ada card would fair in GPU-p / vGPU scenario.

Would you test the 5700xt vs rx-6600 vs Rtx-4060? I would love to see how this plays out!

Just out of curious, which GPU ran cooler through most of the testing?

Are there any tools to measure ML performance? I’d loved to see how they perform when the RAM is saturated.

What about a video editing score? Capcut or davinci resolve. Both are free.

Hey Jeff, have you done any more testing on the MS-01? I'm getting frequent hangs for no obvious reason, even got it once when I had all E cores disabled. Updated Microcode. Just now I'm running some experimental BIOS that MinisForum sent me. Looks promising, but still. People are saying it's a bad batch or defective unit. Memtest showed no errors, the only other thing I'm doing that not every one is doing is runing containers which does assign cores a bit strangely and SR-IOV on the 10GB nics.

@uofirob

13 күн бұрын

I'm interested in this. I just got mine and I'm still in the process of setting mine up. If you get resolution on this, please let me know!

I wonder if these would fit with slim coolers and SFF brackets in a Minisforum MS01. That would be such a killer combo especially for the 20GB card since it has no power connectors

@heirtothethrone000

13 күн бұрын

There is a company that makes a mod for the A2000 and A4000 that turns them into single slot cards for about $89 so they will fit Minisforums MS01.

I'm kind of wondering how the Ada 4000 does for Plex transcoding. I obviously know price to performance makes no sense, but I just want to know if it's better than quick sync on an Intel 13700k.

Any chance you can compare the cards for PLEX encoding?

1 Liter PC enjoyer here, the point here is that there's simply no auxiliary power input to be found in chassis so the GPU must be powered by the PICE slot alone. I have a ThinkStation P3 Tiny from Lenovo and it can take LP single-slot PCIE cards. I am currently pairing it with an A2000 with a modified one-slot cooler. The man making the single slot cooler for A2000 is also doing so for Tesla P4/T4, A4000 Ada SFF, and 4060LP(by removing 1 HDMI port). If you could limit the power budget of the 4060LP to 75W and compare the performance, I think the result would be interesting.

@r_firefly4292

13 күн бұрын

I compared the prices of A2000 and A4000 Ada SFF when I built this system, and I just picked A2000 as A4000 Ada SFF costs twice as much.

Got one of these around xmass, probably the only variant of 4060 in existence that is not a meme 😂

They also power mode the a4000 to 110 watts. And single slot coolers will be coming out.

When are you going to try out the intel flex 170 Gpu with proxmox? Unofficial support for sr-iov.

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

As soon as I can get my hands on one. I've been told multiple times 'they're in the mail'...

@davidtaylor7245

13 күн бұрын

I like your vdi vids. but i watch a lot of all your stuff. good work. enterprise for all

The 4060 faired really well compaired to the A4000. I read an article a while back that Asus was gonna release a 4060LP card but haven't heard anything since .

@oliveelephant

11 күн бұрын

It's out already, has slightly higher base clock than Gigabyte at 2490MHz and says it will OC to 2520, planning to pick one up in a month or so.

shunt mods allowed more power on the A2000 for mining and had big performance upgrade. Curious if the power limit increase would give the quadro the easy win. Not saying you should do it, but find it interesting.

Im a PC enthusiast but am new to the AI workloads, they would benefit from the VRAM increase of the quadro, wouldnt they, or would they have a similar showing? From what ive seen, AI workloads want more RAM

I've been saying since the launch of the 4060 and 4060 ti that eventually nVidia would have to make a low profile version if they ever wanted to sell through their stock of these chips at MSRP or slightly higher pricing (since they don't seem to want to drop prices)... I'm only wondering what took so long for an OEM to take advantage of the efficiency of these chips to help distinguish themselves in the market? Now all we need is for N3rdware to come out with a single slot cooler designed for this card! Boy, I'd love to see a 4060 ti 16GB version of this card, but I doubt nVidia will allow that to happen...

Is the 4060 LFP usable in Proxmox and can be shared as vGPU for VMs?

can you test rtx ada 2000? just saw them, must be new.

I would love to know how many concurrent camera feeds each card can handle in blue iris.

Ahh small form computers and beer, aint nothing a better pair!

Since I have a powermodded rtx A2000, I'm wondering if you can get another 30w or so out of the 4000 SFF....

What about running some benchmarks that are compute oriented and would also benefit from more memory? The tradeoff of core count vs frequency works quite nicely at these GPUs for gaming, and you can see that games are trying really hard to fit in 8GB to please the average kids.

if you ever get a wild ale desire you should check out de Garde Brewing out of Tillamook,OR. All they do is open air fermentation.

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

Oh, I'm well aware of DeGarde :-) I make it to Tillamook at least one a year.

@j_ferguson

13 күн бұрын

@@CraftComputing Of course you do. I'm still going to be trying to name drop those eccentric and great PNW breweries.

is it like the games only take advantage of 2 or 4 cores instead of the full 6 or 8?

Could either allow passthrough into multiple vgpu in kvm-qemu?

Never understood why Nvidia don't have a much wider lineup of SFF/LP cards. For example the AD103 RTX 4090 Mobile/RTX 5000 ADA with 120w TDP would be a fine choice and could surely be adequately cooled with a very similar heatsink to this 4060.

@ProjectPhysX

13 күн бұрын

Greed is the answer. Because people would then put cheap GeForce gaming GPUs in servers and workstations, for AI and compute. But for these applications Nvidia wants to sell 5x as expensive Quadro GPUs, even though they have identical silicon under the hood and perform no better. So they force AIBs to only sell higher-end GeForce cards with hilariously oversized 4-slot coolers, such that they don't physically fit in servers/workstations.

@CraftComputing Jeff, while this suggestion may seem like a waste of time, a run-down comparison of the 4060SFF and the 3050SFF would show interesting results. Also remember, that some people, myself included, consider 720p/768p perfectly acceptable and valid gaming resolutions. Perhaps show us a few benchmarks for that res bracket. EDIT: forgot to mention, good show on this one! This video was interesting and your points about cost vs performance vs power usage are spot on!

@Rustyer266

13 күн бұрын

those resolutions are moot, pretty much every game can be set at 1080p high/ultra with both of these cards with more then acceptable frame rates.

@lewzealand4717

13 күн бұрын

@@Rustyer266 And for the few that can't (Alan Wake 2?), DLSS is still an option and is usually better than 720p.

@lexluthermiester

13 күн бұрын

@@Rustyer266 Not true. Games older than 2019? Sure, you might get away with a few settings on max at 1080p, but 720p/768p is a given for those systems that can't really get high end performance 1080p. I'm a custom system builder with 35+ years experience, I know my craft..

16:47 Idk, but my *impression* from watching the video was that the 4000 had a trend of miserable 1% / 0.1% lows in the games where it lost out in terms of overall experience in a more pronounced way than the 4060 did when it lost out? Either way, if you're getting an SFF card for gaming, the 4060 appears to be the obvious choice given the price difference and overall similar performance.

Can you compare LLM performance?

I would be interested to see how they fare head to head in VR gaming. Games like VRChat eats a lot of VRAM, and I even make my 4090 sweat.

4:16 Another thing that differentiates the 4000 Ada from the 4060 is the former has 2 hardware encoders and decoders instead of just 1. That even beats the 4090, which has 2 encoders but only 1 decoder. Though I think a more fair comparison would be the 4060 against the 2000 Ada instead, since it has closer specs and 16 GB of VRAM instead of 20.

Is there any way to overclock the 4000? Shunt mod maybe? :D

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

There are some people who have shunt modded it to 130W....

someone does a shunt mod service for the a4000 ada. apparently it runs faster than a 3070ti and pulls just over 100w under load.

Trying to add a 6/8 pin power connector by some way may make the 4000 sff able to perform better, but that mod should be a pain in the ass to make, but just imagine the performance...

@HeyNavi

5 күн бұрын

There is a mod for it that makes it so it performs like a slightly OC 3070ti. It’s on Reddit and I plan to get that mod done to my card and their cooper cooler mod. But the cooler mod isn’t finalized yet and I want both done in one go.

@TheIgor449

4 күн бұрын

@@HeyNavi could you tell me the reddit username of that modder? I wanna see how it is going

@HeyNavi

4 күн бұрын

@@TheIgor449 JKGVentures

Was the same driver used for both cards? If not that could explain some of the results

@CraftComputing

13 күн бұрын

'Game Ready' drivers were used for both cards.

@kadancomputers

13 күн бұрын

@@CraftComputing I wasn't aware they offered game ready drivers for professional cards. When I install them it only gives me the option to use production or new feature not game ready

if you run AI or CAD or image elaboration, opencv and similar you need a lot of RAM and you should go with A4000 but as you said if you wanna game the 4060 is for you :)